Lavrov: Kosovo stays within UN jurisdiction

Right on the money Lavrov. Absolute double standars from america and her followers - it's nothing new from america and their "new world order." They said hundreds of thousands of albanians were being slaughtered by Serbs, and that's why they had to intervene. What lies! How can american presidents lie to their people all the time?

Olf, maybe a little bit of thinking before writing on here. Illegal institutions created by Serbs? Serbs are in their legal country which is Serbia and they have every legal right to create any institution they want, as opposed to ethnic Albanians that are doing everything that could possibly being illegal, violating sovereignity, national integrity, UN charters, international laws just to get you started to think. Serbs have every legal basis to create anything in Kosovo while Albanians don't, thats why this process of your so called independence is taking this long, because of no legal basis. And who is making life impossible? Albanians do that in Serbia, Macedonia, Greece so wake up and look what the ethnic Albanians are doing anywhere you go.

Olf: "My view s that threat to security in Europe comes form Russia not form Independent Kosova."

The threat comes from recognising a province as a nation when it is legally part of Serbia. It is the threat and precedent in terms of international law and security, and bypassing due process at the UN, which is a threat to Europe and the rest of the world.

Village-bey - Of course Serbians and Albanians are not predisposed to killing each other, but the record since 1999 has been appalling and there have been thousands of killings, kidnappings and incidents of violence.

Serbs in Kosovo live behind barbed wire enclosures in fear for their safety, so please don't talk about integration as a simple matter. Nothing will change with a UDI.

I expect fireworks and celebrations at the weekend, but the reality afterwards will be a damp squid.

Without recognition by the UN any declaration will be meaningless and thousands of KPC officers are going to be made unemployed with the arrival of the EU.

The reality will not be anything like hoped by the Kosovo Albanians, and they are going to quickly become sick of being instructed and directed at every move by the internationals.

And what if the UDI is then found to be illegal by the international court? In that case Kosovo is still part of Serbia, and it will be back to the drawing board to talk about autonomy.

The will of Serbs in Kosovo to remain in Serbia, and the denial of their will, in a Kosovo that is formed under the excuse of self determination is not double standards...

IT IS THE DEFINITION OF DOUBLE STANDARDS.

The threat is not on the case of kosovo per se, but on the grounds of todays world as we know it.
Dont come back later misters of the EU/NATO and say you were not warned.

And Mr Rupel thought he could persuade the Russians -
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=08&nav_id=47561
- looks like Rupel and the EU has failed miserably!!! In Geneva Lavrov made it very clear that this illegality will not be tolerated and still some Ostrich's in the EU have their head in the sand!!!

It is clear the indecisive EU are trying to impose their default solution partition within a partition but without any legal basis what so ever!

The US and 'few' EU have now persuaded Thaci to make a declaration of 'intent' (what a joke) of dependece upon EU aid on Sunday given that the EU have failed miserably to persuade even their own union states to all illegally recognise! I guess come Sunday maybe even the 'intent' will be put off - Dec. 20008 perhaps!!! But "show me the money" - 205million Euro's over 16 months funds just teh judges on a jolly - looks like the mafiocracy brothels will be kept busy at least but not much else!

The German's question the economic viablity;
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3122353,00.html

Yet the Germans already know that it is highly unlikely to be succesful and that was when they anticipated UN sanction and Russia turning a blind eye to their folly!!!

"The analysis by the IEP, which specializes in studying European integration, is a scathing critique of the security situation and the future prospects for development in Kosovo."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471178,00.html

The Cypriots will never recognise which means that if the 'few' push this illegal mission they will not get any new money to sustain it let alone funds (EU taxpayers) money being wasted on supporting the local mafiocracy like the UN has and now can't wait to just get the hell out of there! If the Cypriots do not recognise now then they will surely block funding such a folly beyond the 205 million euro set aside to pay EU wages!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/12/content_7591407.htm

OSCE current chairman Finnish Foreign Minister Ilkka Kanerva (con·niv·er) says he hopes OSCE can stay on with a narrower mandate - does he really believe Serbia and Russian won't block it immediatly!
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN1154825720080211

I say come Sunday - Bring it on sould have called this illegal folly before - whats that it was - oh yes in teh early 90's and look what a roaring economic success that was !!! Truth is this will be on status equivalent to Staus Quo but with a damn sight less aid money!

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

I love the title Mr. Lavrov. I have an idea for a sequel.
Sergei Lavrov episode 1: “Independent Kosovo threat to European security”
Sergei Lavrov episode 2: “Independent Kosovo threat to World security”
Sergei Lavrov episode 3: “Independent Kosovo threat to the universe”

Mr. Lavrov you have said what you had to say long time a go, now you sound like a broken record(CD).Get on with your life man.

My view s that threat to security in Europe comes form Russia not form Independent Kosova. Kosova does not threat anyone at all, but its is Russia and Serbia that are threatening everyday with their secret action plans ;-).

Double standards mentioned by Lavrov have nothing to do with K-Serbs. K-Serbs are slowly but surely integrating in new Kosova reality, except for some that are prepared to form some kind of illegal institutions in the north. These are just a minority of Kostunica and Milosevic supporters that are running racket inside Serbia and North of Kosova. These are the ones that have made the life of ordinary Serbs in north impossible. These are the ones that are going to gain most by the illegal bodies created in the name of Serbia. For those that think that I am exaggerating things come to Mitrovica north and talk to locals.

I guess that Mr.Lavrov is going to do the same as they have done in the case of Baltic countries proclamation of Independence, and that is recognize Kosova independence in couple of months time.

Mr Lavrov, no one in their right mind is suggesting that Serb and Albanians cannot leave together. We are not different species genetically predisposed to kill each other. It is ludicrous that you cannot grasp the difference between people living together and people living under a specific sovereign authority. The argument is that the Albanians do trust Serbian sovereignty command just like the Chechens, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians and many others do not trust yours.

Olf, if Albanians were able to control anything, they would have gained independence already. It is a fact that they do not control anything in Kosovo (P.S Kosovo is Serbia if you look it up in any text book or any internet source, that is truth and not made up by some Albanians) it is the big players above you that control YOU. How much control do you have of the territory where Serbs are....NONE

Igor

Before you say something in this site think a bit. Serbs are the ones that can do whatever they want in Serbia not in Kosova. You have forgotten that you do not have control over Kosova. Control over the territory is what is all about Igor.
(Olf,

Firstly Kosovo is Serbia whther you like it or not but the thing is that Belgrade might not have the control (which clearly does not want to have)over the South of the Ibar River, Albanians do not have any control over the North of Ibar River. You already losers in the start but soon you will learn to be a complete losers. However, I would not be that sure that Serbs have no absolute control over South, I think you are wrong of that too.

Albi,
pardon my ignorance of now knowing to what Europeans you are talking to, but all the Europeans that I know and live with dont feel threatened by the Russians at all, but rather see U.S as the threat. Not only to European security and stability but the world stability. I mean look at the world now. Obviously some people live in some kind of fantasy land where they tend to ignore the facts around them. I've never seen so many demonstrations in Rome, Ascoli Piceno, Barcelona, Velenzia and guess what! They werent' against Russian influence but against U.S. medeling in the world, that could have a potentially negative impact on everybody in addition to the negative impact that it has on many people around this globe. FACT

mr. lavrov is telling them about the partition of kosovo. which i personally oppose but i won't pretend to be able to argue with mr. lavrov :)
i don't have the moral fortitude of say albanians to argue with a country that can turn off europe's gas in the middle of the winter :)

"I see that many have not managed to grasp the most basic things, because what they are talking about is the breakup of the legal order in Europe," Lavrov noted.

Yes how naive they are, aren't they Mr Lavrov?? pls enlighten them, they are so immature ;)

you know that joke; when a guy goes in the wrong side of the highway and listens to the radio warning that there is a fool driving in the wrong side of the highway

and he says: oh...l if there was only one!


Russia is getting ridiculous anymore.
What if Russia starts to treat EU as a partner (adult partner) and stop lecturing her about the security in Europe.
What about if EU is responsible for the security in Europe and not Russia?

How ridiculous does he sound...the very European Union is saying that IT WILL NOT be a security problem for Europe, and Russia says it will. This is a threat, but it will not last for too long. Very soon Russia itself might be surprised by its own "security problem", so that it will back down from this position. They are dealing with USA and EU in a single front. Who has ever or can ever win against this front in the entire human history? How desperate will your answer be? Serbia had a very good run for almost 800 years. It is time for the rest of the neighboring nations to see a little sun too. Understand! Embrace! The cycle of life and power is the only prophecy unfolding itself in the Balkans for the last 20 years. There is nothing anyone can do about it. C'est la vie!

"Russia will agree that the question of Kosovo is a matter of the European Union EU, but only when all of the Balkans, including Serbia within its present borders, is integrated within the Union, Lavrov said"

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the reason why the EU is so desperate for Serbia to sign the SAA or some other interim agreement. If she did, then they can claim Kosovo is an EU problem!

That is the reason why Serbia should no sign anything with the EU until her borders are guaranteed. Serbia is more than willing to join but only as a whole. Should that occur, the Kosovo problem can then be resolved with the EU in a less painful manner!

Igor

Before you say something in this site think a bit. Serbs are the ones that can do whatever they want in Serbia not in Kosova. You have forgotten that you do not have control over Kosova. Control over the territory is what is all about Igor.

I think, if you ask Europeans, the threat to Europe comes from Russia. It was bad at the time of USSR, it was bad after USSR when Russia could barely control its nukes, and it is bad now with Putin's pipeline diplomacy. The evil empire remains evil.

Mr. Lavrov is being a little naive with this statement.
If the vast majority of the EU countries are ready to recognize Kosova/o then they are not worried about their security that means Kosova/o does not represent a threat to their security. Then here comes Mr. Lavrov telling the he knows better, he and Russia can make the decision about the security of Europe and that these EU countries don't know anything about security. The only way the security of EU countries is threatened is when Putin and Russia state that they are pointing their nukes towards EU capitals, they've done it in the past and they're threatening to do it now. Then according to your own logic Mr. Lavrov because Russia poses such a threat to EU security the Russian state should not be allowed to exist. Or is this another double standard coming from you Mr. Lavrov?

Putin's Russia never supported true democracy — to the contrary, it almost always supported the anti-democrats, from Viktor Yanukovich to Alyaksndr “I miss the USSR” Lukashenka and Islom Karimov.

Russia can use the Kosovo case to manipulate the leaderships of Russian-occupied Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia into “begging” to incorporate these territories into Russian territory as the same way that happened in 1940 with the puppet "People's Parliament" of Lithuania.

But I think the West must go on and give independence to Kosovo. Russia would not pull off its troops away from the territories of Moldova and Georgia even if Kosovo remained part of Serbia, anyway.

It would seem the US still cannot comprehend the clear message Russia is making - Wisner is still continuing with the folly and whats more just goes to show how little he does know about the province when he states;

"My third point is regarding Kosovo and its three million people"
http://www.cfr.org/publication/15483/russias_kosovo_stance.html?breadcrumb=%2F

- I knew the population was increasing but this is a clear sign that Wisner knows very little detail at all when it comes to Serbia's province and would one believe make his 'optimism' misplaced give it based on false knowledge and analysis.

On another of his points;

"the repression of Kosovo by the Belgrade government, ending in a violent expulsion of nearly half the population, many thousands of deaths, and destruction of property—a situation that produced an unbridgeable gap between the Albanian Kosovar community and the [Serbs]—will be over. In a sense, that’s what history says. If you engage in actions of huge brutality, there is a consequence. Now, the right thing will be done."

- really history says that well maybe Wisner should stop the Guardian a respected UK publication which has an article discounting that point and putting that NATO caused more deaths;

"Kosovo was the first place in which the doctrine of "humanitarian intervention" was put into force, although it subsequently turned out that the stories of "genocide" had been greatly exaggerated and far more people died as a result of Nato's military action than would otherwise have been the case. "
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/conor_foley/2008/02/war_on_facts.html

Ironically one wonders what consequences await the US and NATO for their illegal wars and many hundreds of thousands dead as a consequence?

"You already losers in the start but soon you will learn to be a complete losers."

brumsila, your teenage complexities are not suitable for this site.

"brumsila, your teenage complexities are not suitable for this site.
(miri, 12 February 2008 21:52)"

miri, writing about russian prostitutes here, does not put you into a position from where you could be teaching others what is suitable here and what ´s not.

you´re simply not the one to be taken serious in that regard.

please, rather entertain us with you profound knowings about illyrian mythology or whatever...but don´t talk about "suitability", it would be a waste of time!


as to Princip´s comment:
very nice, Mr.Wisner´s showing his profound knowings in regard to the southern serbian province too. 3 million poeple...perhaps some illyrians from the ice-age have been resurrected? =)

just one word: ridiculous

Ratko: "Right on the money Lavrov"

LOL, yeah literally! That's 2 billion dollars talking. For 2 billion dollars I can make anyone in the world, say whatever I want, however I want it.
It's the Gasprom deal, what's behind Russia's motivation, not the love for international law, security in Europe etc, so these moral sermons from Lavrov can hardly convince anyone.

To Adrian & the rest of the albanian camp (Ahmet) -

It's not shocking how you can all be against one individual who will not recognize the independence that your so-called government is trying to claim.

One question - where is Thachi where this is all concerned? Perhaps dining with Ceku in Croatia?

CCCC

Ahmrt, the only ones that sound like a broken record are the Albanians, "independence or unrest". Blero I see you see it from our point of view now. Olf, indep Kosovo IS A Threat to stability in Europe. It's ILLEGAL. and if they do succeed to steal 15% of Serbian land, the Serbs will retain 10% of that stolen land, North Kosovo. It will be reintergrated in to Serbia proper. Pristina has no control of the north. So if you say deal with an indep "kosova" then you have to deal with loseing 10% of "kosova" back to Serbia. Watch and see. Miri, some of the comments that you put forth on this SEREBIAN site, well you have no room to complain about others my friend.

"They are saying that Serbs and Albanians cannot live together, and that this is why Kosovo needs to be separated from Serbia, but there are Serbs living in Kosovo as well."

Mr Lavrov,Serbs will be minority in Kosovo.We will look after them,we will treat them beter than any country.You can clearly see,lately our PM most of the time is spending visiting serbian villages,even he did give a tractor to a serbian farmer as a present last week.He is getting lot of support out there.

Smile
I think you are a genuinely funny guy, a quality that everyone appreciates. Having said that, I think that you’re asking a bit too much of Albanians. “Moral fortitude to argue with a country that can turn off europe's gas in the middle of the winter”. From a people who still use conventional ways to keep warmed up, if you know what I mean. Oh yes, sons of the eagle would be the firsts to tell Europe to tread carefully with Russia.

After Ukraine, who's next? Will Russia accept Serbia sign SAA? It's not sure! The BBC article below may give you some ideas. Enjoy ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7241470.stm

"Mr. Lavrov you have said what you had to say long time a go, now you sound like a broken record(CD).Get on with your life man.
(Ahmet Isufi, 12 February 2008 16:02)"

Not like you eh Ahmed? B92's prominent internet poster!Lavrov is only one of the most powerful voices in the world, whereas you seek to win Serbian hearts and minds on B92 on a daily basis with your repetitious posts. The difference between you and him is that people actually listen to him at state functions whereas most of us ignore your posts here on B92.

oh bey if only i knew how to make you smile :)
and do look ahead. once you join the eu you will use less traditional fuels surely.
also, less traditional feuds. or at least feuds say fueled by less expensive liquid. hm?
i wish you the best of luck.

i actually quite enjoyed reading the posts here in this thread: "the fuel that fuels the feuds..." some very creative writing, not just the usual hate fest!

russia (the government, not the people -- i have met and enjoyed so many russians and those of every other ethnicity...)is saber-rattling, big time. i admit it leaves me queasy but it ain't no cuban missle crisis. the thing to remember about bullies: don't go outta yr way to antagonize them, but don't acknowledge fear or intimidation, or they'll have you. no one in this world can be surprised by their tactics, which are only a few centuries old, given one or 2 variations.

and now my "insider" news (for the 3 or 4 persons who read this): an independence declaration is really about to take place, this sunday, in pristina. with accompanying celebrations. my good friend/partner (who is kosovar albanian) is headed back to join in the celebrations; sadly i cannot join him but i will be there in spirit. we should not bother too much about all of the naysayers -- there are always people ready to spoil yr party. i was also impressed to read (not on this site) that thaci gave part of his speech recently in serbian. i understand that this is a SYMbolic act, but it's an important symbol. now correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't recall the last time that one of the blgd politicos gave part of a speech in albanian, despite the sizable albanian minority (esp in the south of serbia proper.) where is our demand for standards here??

Lavrov: Kosovo stays within UN SC jurisdiction

The UN is irrelevant anymore, after WWII it isn't serving a purpose. With that in mind, every sovereign country has the right to recognize any other country by its' power, this power is held to the state/country not UN.

I think the Serbs and the Russians make no sense. One day the claim independence of Kosova/o means nothing (Ivanovic yesterday, that Russian diplomat last week), the next day they claim independence of Kosova/o means Armagedon to earth (Lavrov today and Tadic etc etc.). With this disparity in their claims, and this disparity in their thought processes they can hardly convince anyone about the situation being grave. If the situation was grave then the indpendence of Kosova/o would mean something and they should have been stating this all the time. They haven't been saying this all the time, which means that the threats coming now are only screams so they could be heard, because frankly nobody is listening to them.

Igor,
I and others like me have had the bad luck of being born and raised in a country that was for a long time free of US influence. We were unfortunate to fall under Russia's sphere of influence. Citizens of countries like Greece and Italy, two neighbouring countries which would have become Russian satellites if it weren't for US intervention, now may demonstrate against US power: the word NAIVE applies fully to them.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Have a look at a map of the world: look at Germany, Japan, South Korea, Italy, Greece, Puerto Rico, and compare with Poland, Cuba, North Korea, Albania, Serbia, Chechnya, and so on.

Mr. Lavrov you have said what you had to say long time a go, now you sound like a broken record(CD).Get on with your life man.

I love the title Mr. Lavrov. I have an idea for a sequel.
Sergei Lavrov episode 1: “Independent Kosovo threat to European security”
Sergei Lavrov episode 2: “Independent Kosovo threat to World security”
Sergei Lavrov episode 3: “Independent Kosovo threat to the universe”

My view s that threat to security in Europe comes form Russia not form Independent Kosova. Kosova does not threat anyone at all, but its is Russia and Serbia that are threatening everyday with their secret action plans ;-).

Double standards mentioned by Lavrov have nothing to do with K-Serbs. K-Serbs are slowly but surely integrating in new Kosova reality, except for some that are prepared to form some kind of illegal institutions in the north. These are just a minority of Kostunica and Milosevic supporters that are running racket inside Serbia and North of Kosova. These are the ones that have made the life of ordinary Serbs in north impossible. These are the ones that are going to gain most by the illegal bodies created in the name of Serbia. For those that think that I am exaggerating things come to Mitrovica north and talk to locals.

I guess that Mr.Lavrov is going to do the same as they have done in the case of Baltic countries proclamation of Independence, and that is recognize Kosova independence in couple of months time.

Mr Lavrov, no one in their right mind is suggesting that Serb and Albanians cannot leave together. We are not different species genetically predisposed to kill each other. It is ludicrous that you cannot grasp the difference between people living together and people living under a specific sovereign authority. The argument is that the Albanians do trust Serbian sovereignty command just like the Chechens, Ukrainians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians and many others do not trust yours.

Mr. Lavrov is being a little naive with this statement.
If the vast majority of the EU countries are ready to recognize Kosova/o then they are not worried about their security that means Kosova/o does not represent a threat to their security. Then here comes Mr. Lavrov telling the he knows better, he and Russia can make the decision about the security of Europe and that these EU countries don't know anything about security. The only way the security of EU countries is threatened is when Putin and Russia state that they are pointing their nukes towards EU capitals, they've done it in the past and they're threatening to do it now. Then according to your own logic Mr. Lavrov because Russia poses such a threat to EU security the Russian state should not be allowed to exist. Or is this another double standard coming from you Mr. Lavrov?

Ratko: "Right on the money Lavrov"

LOL, yeah literally! That's 2 billion dollars talking. For 2 billion dollars I can make anyone in the world, say whatever I want, however I want it.
It's the Gasprom deal, what's behind Russia's motivation, not the love for international law, security in Europe etc, so these moral sermons from Lavrov can hardly convince anyone.

"You already losers in the start but soon you will learn to be a complete losers."

brumsila, your teenage complexities are not suitable for this site.

Smile
I think you are a genuinely funny guy, a quality that everyone appreciates. Having said that, I think that you’re asking a bit too much of Albanians. “Moral fortitude to argue with a country that can turn off europe's gas in the middle of the winter”. From a people who still use conventional ways to keep warmed up, if you know what I mean. Oh yes, sons of the eagle would be the firsts to tell Europe to tread carefully with Russia.

I think, if you ask Europeans, the threat to Europe comes from Russia. It was bad at the time of USSR, it was bad after USSR when Russia could barely control its nukes, and it is bad now with Putin's pipeline diplomacy. The evil empire remains evil.

"They are saying that Serbs and Albanians cannot live together, and that this is why Kosovo needs to be separated from Serbia, but there are Serbs living in Kosovo as well."

Mr Lavrov,Serbs will be minority in Kosovo.We will look after them,we will treat them beter than any country.You can clearly see,lately our PM most of the time is spending visiting serbian villages,even he did give a tractor to a serbian farmer as a present last week.He is getting lot of support out there.

Right on the money Lavrov. Absolute double standars from america and her followers - it's nothing new from america and their "new world order." They said hundreds of thousands of albanians were being slaughtered by Serbs, and that's why they had to intervene. What lies! How can american presidents lie to their people all the time?

"I see that many have not managed to grasp the most basic things, because what they are talking about is the breakup of the legal order in Europe," Lavrov noted.

Yes how naive they are, aren't they Mr Lavrov?? pls enlighten them, they are so immature ;)

you know that joke; when a guy goes in the wrong side of the highway and listens to the radio warning that there is a fool driving in the wrong side of the highway

and he says: oh...l if there was only one!


Russia is getting ridiculous anymore.
What if Russia starts to treat EU as a partner (adult partner) and stop lecturing her about the security in Europe.
What about if EU is responsible for the security in Europe and not Russia?

Igor

Before you say something in this site think a bit. Serbs are the ones that can do whatever they want in Serbia not in Kosova. You have forgotten that you do not have control over Kosova. Control over the territory is what is all about Igor.

How ridiculous does he sound...the very European Union is saying that IT WILL NOT be a security problem for Europe, and Russia says it will. This is a threat, but it will not last for too long. Very soon Russia itself might be surprised by its own "security problem", so that it will back down from this position. They are dealing with USA and EU in a single front. Who has ever or can ever win against this front in the entire human history? How desperate will your answer be? Serbia had a very good run for almost 800 years. It is time for the rest of the neighboring nations to see a little sun too. Understand! Embrace! The cycle of life and power is the only prophecy unfolding itself in the Balkans for the last 20 years. There is nothing anyone can do about it. C'est la vie!

After Ukraine, who's next? Will Russia accept Serbia sign SAA? It's not sure! The BBC article below may give you some ideas. Enjoy ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7241470.stm

Olf, maybe a little bit of thinking before writing on here. Illegal institutions created by Serbs? Serbs are in their legal country which is Serbia and they have every legal right to create any institution they want, as opposed to ethnic Albanians that are doing everything that could possibly being illegal, violating sovereignity, national integrity, UN charters, international laws just to get you started to think. Serbs have every legal basis to create anything in Kosovo while Albanians don't, thats why this process of your so called independence is taking this long, because of no legal basis. And who is making life impossible? Albanians do that in Serbia, Macedonia, Greece so wake up and look what the ethnic Albanians are doing anywhere you go.

Putin's Russia never supported true democracy — to the contrary, it almost always supported the anti-democrats, from Viktor Yanukovich to Alyaksndr “I miss the USSR” Lukashenka and Islom Karimov.

Russia can use the Kosovo case to manipulate the leaderships of Russian-occupied Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia into “begging” to incorporate these territories into Russian territory as the same way that happened in 1940 with the puppet "People's Parliament" of Lithuania.

But I think the West must go on and give independence to Kosovo. Russia would not pull off its troops away from the territories of Moldova and Georgia even if Kosovo remained part of Serbia, anyway.

The will of Serbs in Kosovo to remain in Serbia, and the denial of their will, in a Kosovo that is formed under the excuse of self determination is not double standards...

IT IS THE DEFINITION OF DOUBLE STANDARDS.

The threat is not on the case of kosovo per se, but on the grounds of todays world as we know it.
Dont come back later misters of the EU/NATO and say you were not warned.

Lavrov: Kosovo stays within UN SC jurisdiction

The UN is irrelevant anymore, after WWII it isn't serving a purpose. With that in mind, every sovereign country has the right to recognize any other country by its' power, this power is held to the state/country not UN.

Olf: "My view s that threat to security in Europe comes form Russia not form Independent Kosova."

The threat comes from recognising a province as a nation when it is legally part of Serbia. It is the threat and precedent in terms of international law and security, and bypassing due process at the UN, which is a threat to Europe and the rest of the world.

Village-bey - Of course Serbians and Albanians are not predisposed to killing each other, but the record since 1999 has been appalling and there have been thousands of killings, kidnappings and incidents of violence.

Serbs in Kosovo live behind barbed wire enclosures in fear for their safety, so please don't talk about integration as a simple matter. Nothing will change with a UDI.

I expect fireworks and celebrations at the weekend, but the reality afterwards will be a damp squid.

Without recognition by the UN any declaration will be meaningless and thousands of KPC officers are going to be made unemployed with the arrival of the EU.

The reality will not be anything like hoped by the Kosovo Albanians, and they are going to quickly become sick of being instructed and directed at every move by the internationals.

And what if the UDI is then found to be illegal by the international court? In that case Kosovo is still part of Serbia, and it will be back to the drawing board to talk about autonomy.

mr. lavrov is telling them about the partition of kosovo. which i personally oppose but i won't pretend to be able to argue with mr. lavrov :)
i don't have the moral fortitude of say albanians to argue with a country that can turn off europe's gas in the middle of the winter :)

And Mr Rupel thought he could persuade the Russians -
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=08&nav_id=47561
- looks like Rupel and the EU has failed miserably!!! In Geneva Lavrov made it very clear that this illegality will not be tolerated and still some Ostrich's in the EU have their head in the sand!!!

It is clear the indecisive EU are trying to impose their default solution partition within a partition but without any legal basis what so ever!

The US and 'few' EU have now persuaded Thaci to make a declaration of 'intent' (what a joke) of dependece upon EU aid on Sunday given that the EU have failed miserably to persuade even their own union states to all illegally recognise! I guess come Sunday maybe even the 'intent' will be put off - Dec. 20008 perhaps!!! But "show me the money" - 205million Euro's over 16 months funds just teh judges on a jolly - looks like the mafiocracy brothels will be kept busy at least but not much else!

The German's question the economic viablity;
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3122353,00.html

Yet the Germans already know that it is highly unlikely to be succesful and that was when they anticipated UN sanction and Russia turning a blind eye to their folly!!!

"The analysis by the IEP, which specializes in studying European integration, is a scathing critique of the security situation and the future prospects for development in Kosovo."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471178,00.html

The Cypriots will never recognise which means that if the 'few' push this illegal mission they will not get any new money to sustain it let alone funds (EU taxpayers) money being wasted on supporting the local mafiocracy like the UN has and now can't wait to just get the hell out of there! If the Cypriots do not recognise now then they will surely block funding such a folly beyond the 205 million euro set aside to pay EU wages!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/12/content_7591407.htm

OSCE current chairman Finnish Foreign Minister Ilkka Kanerva (con·niv·er) says he hopes OSCE can stay on with a narrower mandate - does he really believe Serbia and Russian won't block it immediatly!
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN1154825720080211

I say come Sunday - Bring it on sould have called this illegal folly before - whats that it was - oh yes in teh early 90's and look what a roaring economic success that was !!! Truth is this will be on status equivalent to Staus Quo but with a damn sight less aid money!

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

I think the Serbs and the Russians make no sense. One day the claim independence of Kosova/o means nothing (Ivanovic yesterday, that Russian diplomat last week), the next day they claim independence of Kosova/o means Armagedon to earth (Lavrov today and Tadic etc etc.). With this disparity in their claims, and this disparity in their thought processes they can hardly convince anyone about the situation being grave. If the situation was grave then the indpendence of Kosova/o would mean something and they should have been stating this all the time. They haven't been saying this all the time, which means that the threats coming now are only screams so they could be heard, because frankly nobody is listening to them.

Olf, if Albanians were able to control anything, they would have gained independence already. It is a fact that they do not control anything in Kosovo (P.S Kosovo is Serbia if you look it up in any text book or any internet source, that is truth and not made up by some Albanians) it is the big players above you that control YOU. How much control do you have of the territory where Serbs are....NONE

Igor

Before you say something in this site think a bit. Serbs are the ones that can do whatever they want in Serbia not in Kosova. You have forgotten that you do not have control over Kosova. Control over the territory is what is all about Igor.
(Olf,

Firstly Kosovo is Serbia whther you like it or not but the thing is that Belgrade might not have the control (which clearly does not want to have)over the South of the Ibar River, Albanians do not have any control over the North of Ibar River. You already losers in the start but soon you will learn to be a complete losers. However, I would not be that sure that Serbs have no absolute control over South, I think you are wrong of that too.

Albi,
pardon my ignorance of now knowing to what Europeans you are talking to, but all the Europeans that I know and live with dont feel threatened by the Russians at all, but rather see U.S as the threat. Not only to European security and stability but the world stability. I mean look at the world now. Obviously some people live in some kind of fantasy land where they tend to ignore the facts around them. I've never seen so many demonstrations in Rome, Ascoli Piceno, Barcelona, Velenzia and guess what! They werent' against Russian influence but against U.S. medeling in the world, that could have a potentially negative impact on everybody in addition to the negative impact that it has on many people around this globe. FACT

oh bey if only i knew how to make you smile :)
and do look ahead. once you join the eu you will use less traditional fuels surely.
also, less traditional feuds. or at least feuds say fueled by less expensive liquid. hm?
i wish you the best of luck.

"Russia will agree that the question of Kosovo is a matter of the European Union EU, but only when all of the Balkans, including Serbia within its present borders, is integrated within the Union, Lavrov said"

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the reason why the EU is so desperate for Serbia to sign the SAA or some other interim agreement. If she did, then they can claim Kosovo is an EU problem!

That is the reason why Serbia should no sign anything with the EU until her borders are guaranteed. Serbia is more than willing to join but only as a whole. Should that occur, the Kosovo problem can then be resolved with the EU in a less painful manner!

It would seem the US still cannot comprehend the clear message Russia is making - Wisner is still continuing with the folly and whats more just goes to show how little he does know about the province when he states;

"My third point is regarding Kosovo and its three million people"
http://www.cfr.org/publication/15483/russias_kosovo_stance.html?breadcrumb=%2F

- I knew the population was increasing but this is a clear sign that Wisner knows very little detail at all when it comes to Serbia's province and would one believe make his 'optimism' misplaced give it based on false knowledge and analysis.

On another of his points;

"the repression of Kosovo by the Belgrade government, ending in a violent expulsion of nearly half the population, many thousands of deaths, and destruction of property—a situation that produced an unbridgeable gap between the Albanian Kosovar community and the [Serbs]—will be over. In a sense, that’s what history says. If you engage in actions of huge brutality, there is a consequence. Now, the right thing will be done."

- really history says that well maybe Wisner should stop the Guardian a respected UK publication which has an article discounting that point and putting that NATO caused more deaths;

"Kosovo was the first place in which the doctrine of "humanitarian intervention" was put into force, although it subsequently turned out that the stories of "genocide" had been greatly exaggerated and far more people died as a result of Nato's military action than would otherwise have been the case. "
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/conor_foley/2008/02/war_on_facts.html

Ironically one wonders what consequences await the US and NATO for their illegal wars and many hundreds of thousands dead as a consequence?

To Adrian & the rest of the albanian camp (Ahmet) -

It's not shocking how you can all be against one individual who will not recognize the independence that your so-called government is trying to claim.

One question - where is Thachi where this is all concerned? Perhaps dining with Ceku in Croatia?

CCCC

"Mr. Lavrov you have said what you had to say long time a go, now you sound like a broken record(CD).Get on with your life man.
(Ahmet Isufi, 12 February 2008 16:02)"

Not like you eh Ahmed? B92's prominent internet poster!Lavrov is only one of the most powerful voices in the world, whereas you seek to win Serbian hearts and minds on B92 on a daily basis with your repetitious posts. The difference between you and him is that people actually listen to him at state functions whereas most of us ignore your posts here on B92.

i actually quite enjoyed reading the posts here in this thread: "the fuel that fuels the feuds..." some very creative writing, not just the usual hate fest!

russia (the government, not the people -- i have met and enjoyed so many russians and those of every other ethnicity...)is saber-rattling, big time. i admit it leaves me queasy but it ain't no cuban missle crisis. the thing to remember about bullies: don't go outta yr way to antagonize them, but don't acknowledge fear or intimidation, or they'll have you. no one in this world can be surprised by their tactics, which are only a few centuries old, given one or 2 variations.

and now my "insider" news (for the 3 or 4 persons who read this): an independence declaration is really about to take place, this sunday, in pristina. with accompanying celebrations. my good friend/partner (who is kosovar albanian) is headed back to join in the celebrations; sadly i cannot join him but i will be there in spirit. we should not bother too much about all of the naysayers -- there are always people ready to spoil yr party. i was also impressed to read (not on this site) that thaci gave part of his speech recently in serbian. i understand that this is a SYMbolic act, but it's an important symbol. now correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't recall the last time that one of the blgd politicos gave part of a speech in albanian, despite the sizable albanian minority (esp in the south of serbia proper.) where is our demand for standards here??

Igor,
I and others like me have had the bad luck of being born and raised in a country that was for a long time free of US influence. We were unfortunate to fall under Russia's sphere of influence. Citizens of countries like Greece and Italy, two neighbouring countries which would have become Russian satellites if it weren't for US intervention, now may demonstrate against US power: the word NAIVE applies fully to them.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Have a look at a map of the world: look at Germany, Japan, South Korea, Italy, Greece, Puerto Rico, and compare with Poland, Cuba, North Korea, Albania, Serbia, Chechnya, and so on.

"brumsila, your teenage complexities are not suitable for this site.
(miri, 12 February 2008 21:52)"

miri, writing about russian prostitutes here, does not put you into a position from where you could be teaching others what is suitable here and what ´s not.

you´re simply not the one to be taken serious in that regard.

please, rather entertain us with you profound knowings about illyrian mythology or whatever...but don´t talk about "suitability", it would be a waste of time!


as to Princip´s comment:
very nice, Mr.Wisner´s showing his profound knowings in regard to the southern serbian province too. 3 million poeple...perhaps some illyrians from the ice-age have been resurrected? =)

just one word: ridiculous

Ahmrt, the only ones that sound like a broken record are the Albanians, "independence or unrest". Blero I see you see it from our point of view now. Olf, indep Kosovo IS A Threat to stability in Europe. It's ILLEGAL. and if they do succeed to steal 15% of Serbian land, the Serbs will retain 10% of that stolen land, North Kosovo. It will be reintergrated in to Serbia proper. Pristina has no control of the north. So if you say deal with an indep "kosova" then you have to deal with loseing 10% of "kosova" back to Serbia. Watch and see. Miri, some of the comments that you put forth on this SEREBIAN site, well you have no room to complain about others my friend.