RS president: Kosovo sets precedent

Unfortunately the creation of RS as the result of ethnic cleansing is very fresh in everyone's mind and such will not have any support other than Russia.
(miri,

--So is Kosovo miri, you cleansed Kosovo form all possible ethnicities and those who left you keep behind barbed wires. That is something that you cannot see in Republika Srpska. In addition, Republika Srpska is not governed by war criminals.

miri you really do not grasp and/or accept the concept of law, legal obligations, legislation, legal order, all that western, judeo-christian malarkey;) do you? this is not a popularity contests. this is not a poetry contest. serbia has a rock solid legal case against allowing or recognizing a secession of a part of its territory. how someone feels, or what they think about it, who deserves what in the realms of poetic justice, is irrelevant. kosovo will never become an internationally recognized state. it can become a unilaterally recognized state. then those countries that make that recognition will send aid, robbing their tax payers, but they will not invest. this is the key here. a territory in permanent limbo will not get a dime of investment.
and then, what does poverty and frustration often mutate into in muslim territories?
i dont know how your sponsors will deal with it, hopefully fort dix was a good lesson. as for us, the best we have are on that boundary to protect us. and the best we have are pretty damn good ;)

Those who say it will not create a precedent are wrong.

It will create a precedent:

Kosovo will act as a model for low-scale ethnic cleansing. Examples of this are threatening to hurt members of your own ethnic group if they do business with the other ethnic group. This can be followed by sneering, threats, fights, desecration of grave yards, burning of churches, refusing to give medical aid, etc., et.. Then when the other group are sufficiently provoked, get them to get into trouble and put the blame on them.

The precedent will work at that level all over the world.

On the legal front - what point is there in having any form of international law if it cannot be repected?

The justification for the intervention against Milosevic was based on international humanitarian law. Shall we choose to ignore humanitarian law in future?

Those who argue for a negotiated solution are right to do so.

The reward of a mono-ethically motivated state is wrong. On the other hand, stages towards agreed autonomy and cooperation for the future could benefit both sides considerably.

It would not benefit the successionists - but then I have no sympathy for their cause (and niether should the international community have any sympathy for it either).

The argument of precedence is really ridiculous. Why haven't Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Moldova, Kazikhstan, East Timor, to mention a few only during the last two decades, created the so called precedence?
Oh, because those that want independence have been waiting and waiting, discarding the above mentioned cases, just for an opportunity like Kosova to present itself first. As if they would really care if Kosova had the status of republic or not in the Yugoslav constitution and prolong their independence only because only now their for independence case makes sense!!
Who wants independence will fight for it, it will make a case for it. If RS makes a case for it and wins the backing of International Community in the scale that Kosova has, than let them join Serbia. Unfortunately the creation of RS as the result of ethnic cleansing is very fresh in everyone's mind and such will not have any support other than Russia.

wow.

once again we are blessed with the profound teachings of "miri".


to:
"belokapac",
don´t worry about the Republika Srpska being eradicated from the maps...

you should be worried about only appering on albanian maps.

so far I don´t see this overwhelming majority of states looking forward to recognize you.
remember: it´s 11:4 against in the UNSC.

you catch my drift?

People, plaease!!
If 'greater albania' happens and Kosovo goes, then so does Republika Srpska, and so does the Mitrovica pocket north of the Ibar. It's that simple! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. No double standards! Nobody can defend this double standard in a court of law, and they know it.
I can already hear the brass trumpet bands celebrating in Banja Luka if some in the west go ahead with their illegal and immoral 'greater albania' plan.
And for those of you who think that Russia will not recognize Republika Srpska in this kind of scenario, think again! Russia wants a strong ally in the balkans, and we are glad to oblige.
Cheers!

Republika Srpska is a creature based on terror and genocide, so it is better for it to stay qiuet, otherwise, the International community may well cancel it from the map. Kosova never had and will never have war criminals like Karadzic and Mladic, which, just to mention, live in Serbia, or protected by Serbia

Note: the only people who repeatedly talk about the so-called “Kosovo precedent” are nationalist Russians and Serbs.

For all the rest of the world, there is no such a thing like this; the case of Kosovo is, in fact, clearly different from the case of Bonsia since in the Kosovo War the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were the non-Serb Kosovars (most of the dead of the war were Albanians), and in the case of Bosnian War, the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were non-Serb Bosnians (most of the dead of the war were Muslim Bosnians).

Going to the Caucasus, in the case of the Abkhazian War, the main aggressor were the Russians and Aspu-Abkhaz (who before the war were a tiny 17% of the Abkhazian population), and the main victims were the Abkhazian Georgians (most of the dead of the war were Georgian).

So that's the difference: Kosovo deserves independence, while Srpska and Abkhazia not.

miri wrote:
"Who wants independence will fight for it, it will make a case for it."

Yes, everybody seems to agree on this, accept when the Serbs are concerned.

"Unfortunately the creation of RS as the result of ethnic cleansing".

No, it's the result of defence and ethnic shifting..
How is it any different in the Federation, Krajina or Kosovo?

Bad gorilla wrote:
"the Kosovo War the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were the non-Serb Kosovars"

No, the main aggressors were the US policymakers who got the K-Albanians to sign on the bombing of Serbia.....Everybody seems to quickly step over that bump. How ironic.

"and in the case of Bosnian War, the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were non-Serb Bosnians"

Did you finish some pre-requisite course in CNN journalism?
Have a look at the ethnic maps of Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo..Before and After.
You'll see the final result.
It's funny how you believe ethnic cleansing goes one way.

belokapac wrote:
"Republika Srpska is a creature based on terror and genocide".

No my friend, it's a harmonious state defended on freedom, sacrifice and defence of its enemies.

You see...
It all depends what side of the fence you're sitting on.

To all the Serb bashers on these boards:

Question:
If RS was the result of ethnic cleansing....Why.....Oh Why did the great overseer of world stability, fairness and all that's good on this planet, ALLOW the Dayton accord (therefore RS) to be signed by recognized?

Let's stick to the article please.
It's already a given. The end result of any Kosovo precedent would allow for other regions to declare similiar circumstances.


That's the whole point of this column.

So stop teaching lessons in morality, and start realizing, it's more about geopolitics and special interests.
Your terrorism is my freedom and vice versa.
The only difference being....unfortunately, what side of US foreign policy you happen to be on.

Most definitely, Kosovo sets the precedent for every separatist group to follow.
An illegal declaration of independence by Kosovo separatists is the beginning of CHAOS around the world.
Wake up!
International law must be respected.

People, plaease!!
If 'greater albania' happens and Kosovo goes, then so does Republika Srpska, and so does the Mitrovica pocket north of the Ibar. It's that simple! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. No double standards! Nobody can defend this double standard in a court of law, and they know it.
I can already hear the brass trumpet bands celebrating in Banja Luka if some in the west go ahead with their illegal and immoral 'greater albania' plan.
(Dragan, 11 February 2008 23:03)
Thank you for your comment.
Serbia should be the first one to recognize the KiM independence and should link it to a Srbska Republik reunion with Serbia. It waste of time to pretend that Kosovo will not be independent and other countries will not recognize it. Oh please stop pretending. Get real and support the interest of Serbian whenever they live. Don't let them down.
Thanks,
Milan, Banja Luka.

you catch my drift?
(Jovan, 11 February 2008 20:16)

Jovan,

Kosova will be independent and will be recognised by all the countries that Kosova wants to do business with.
Oh, by the way that includes almost the whole of Europe.

Do you catch my drift?

Sorry - here is spelling correction for my earlier posting:

it is 'secessionists' I have no sympathy for not 'successionists'.

(and of course, the international community should have no sympathy for them either!)

In international law it would be difficult to justify Kosovo's unilateral independence. It is clearly a breach of Serbian sovereignty. As such it should not be accepted, and as such it will serve as a precedent to any secessionist movement that wants to take advantage of it.

Having said that, I think Serbs should examine their own present and past policis toward minority ethnicities within their borders. Kosovo befell Serbia as a result of the Balkan wars, right? It's been part of Serbia for more than ninety years. It's curious that the Albanians have been, not integrated into Serbian society in any way, but deeply antagonised to the point that they are willing to wage a war for independence. Whatever Serbs on this page might say, the Albanians were hugely oppressed under Milosevic. Where I come from, Sweden, we received tens of thousands of Kosovo Albanian refugees during the nineties because of these policies.

I'm sure Kosovo Albanians would be quite happy to remain part of a powerful state such as Serbia - with such huge economic potential. If it weren't for the fact that that power has so many times in the past been used to oppress them.

As for Bosnia, it's astonishing that people can equate Serbian aggression during the war with the defense of peoples who had nowhere else to go. Anyone who has read anything impartial about the Bosnian war, know that it was aggression by massively well-armed Serb troops against (mostly) defenceless Bosniaks. Only later, after three years, did the latter begin to build up a good military potential. Please, this really was the case. Don't re-write history to soothe your national conscience.

"
So stop teaching lessons in morality, and start realizing, it's more about geopolitics and special interests.
Your terrorism is my freedom and vice versa.
The only difference being....unfortunately, what side of US foreign policy you happen to be on."

I couldn't have said it better. That's why RS doesn't have a chance because lacks the geopolitical interests of big powers, lacks any morality based on the oportunistic circumstances that was created and above all lacks the support of US and EU. If RS wants independence let it go for two decades with parallel institutions like Kosova did, let Croat and Bosnian federation kick out 1m of serbs living there, let NATO intervene and then we say "what is good for the goose is good for the gander". Until then don't preach "equality".

Miri!
None of the ethnic groups named here had a state created before.
Not Croatians, Slovenians, Macedonians, Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Moldovians, Kazikhstanis, East Timorees...
and had a right to self-determination. Albanians have their national state and it's Albania. Outside of it you are minority, just like Germans are minority outside Germany, or Russians outside Russia. Read the international law. Do you see the precedent now?

It is more than likely that other regions of the world will point to a Kosovo solution in case Kosovo declare independence unilaterally and gain recognition from other countries. Why deny that. This problem is actually the only and real problem with the current Kosovo situation. It was quite normal until 1998/99, that armed individuals crossing international borders and committed attack on state institutions were labelled terrorists! Why not in Kosovo? Because these armed individuals were supported by nations within the the world elite. This fact cannot be hidden for history or future education worldwide. It is therefore in the interst of the entire world, and not only the aforementioned states, that a solution is found during negotiations. Serbia lost Kosovo long time ago, no doubt about that. Kosovo will become independent one day. However, Serbia needs guarantees from the international community - that security and living conditions for the Serb population and their cultural heritage in Kosovo is provided by the socalled new "state". Who in this world believe that the current government in Kosovo can guarantee this? This is a question to be solved in a manner that also take into consideration the situation in other parts of the Balkans. This process should not be directed by Albanians in Kosovo alone. EU and UN must find a solution without conditions being forwarded by the US and Russia due to their current disputes on the European security in general. Let the Kosovo government, assisted by Serbia, EU and the UN create the needed security institutions, monetary institutions and a sustainable economy for the province - then a declaration of Independence may sound and appear realistic.

As for Bosnia, it's astonishing that people can equate Serbian aggression during the war with the defense of peoples who had nowhere else to go. Anyone who has read anything impartial about the Bosnian war, know that it was aggression by massively well-armed Serb troops against (mostly) defenceless Bosniaks. Only later, after three years, did the latter begin to build up a good military potential. Please, this really was the case. Don't re-write history to soothe your national conscience.
(Martin, 12 February 2008 10:29)

Defenseless Bosniaks? You have the audacity to claim historical fact.

Bosnia and Herzegovina declared independance under Alija Isetbegovic who laid seige to the JNA barracks murdering JNA officers in the process sparking a civil war. The Bosnian Serb leadership under Karadzic reacted and by referendum declared that the Bosnian Serbs wanted to remain within the Federation of Yugoslavia.

A civil war broke out and guess what we now have?

A mini-Yugoslavia comprised of Serbs, Croats and converted slavs who call themselves Bosnian Muslims.

The so called Bosnian Federation created from the Dayton Accord which is another attempt to re-create Yugoslavia.

What was wrong with the old Yugoslavia and how is the new Bosnian Federation going to solve the same old problems.

Please spare us your historical facts.

The argument of precedence is really ridiculous. Why haven't Croatia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Moldova, Kazikhstan, East Timor, to mention a few only during the last two decades, created the so called precedence?
Oh, because those that want independence have been waiting and waiting, discarding the above mentioned cases, just for an opportunity like Kosova to present itself first. As if they would really care if Kosova had the status of republic or not in the Yugoslav constitution and prolong their independence only because only now their for independence case makes sense!!
Who wants independence will fight for it, it will make a case for it. If RS makes a case for it and wins the backing of International Community in the scale that Kosova has, than let them join Serbia. Unfortunately the creation of RS as the result of ethnic cleansing is very fresh in everyone's mind and such will not have any support other than Russia.

Note: the only people who repeatedly talk about the so-called “Kosovo precedent” are nationalist Russians and Serbs.

For all the rest of the world, there is no such a thing like this; the case of Kosovo is, in fact, clearly different from the case of Bonsia since in the Kosovo War the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were the non-Serb Kosovars (most of the dead of the war were Albanians), and in the case of Bosnian War, the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were non-Serb Bosnians (most of the dead of the war were Muslim Bosnians).

Going to the Caucasus, in the case of the Abkhazian War, the main aggressor were the Russians and Aspu-Abkhaz (who before the war were a tiny 17% of the Abkhazian population), and the main victims were the Abkhazian Georgians (most of the dead of the war were Georgian).

So that's the difference: Kosovo deserves independence, while Srpska and Abkhazia not.

Republika Srpska is a creature based on terror and genocide, so it is better for it to stay qiuet, otherwise, the International community may well cancel it from the map. Kosova never had and will never have war criminals like Karadzic and Mladic, which, just to mention, live in Serbia, or protected by Serbia

Unfortunately the creation of RS as the result of ethnic cleansing is very fresh in everyone's mind and such will not have any support other than Russia.
(miri,

--So is Kosovo miri, you cleansed Kosovo form all possible ethnicities and those who left you keep behind barbed wires. That is something that you cannot see in Republika Srpska. In addition, Republika Srpska is not governed by war criminals.

you catch my drift?
(Jovan, 11 February 2008 20:16)

Jovan,

Kosova will be independent and will be recognised by all the countries that Kosova wants to do business with.
Oh, by the way that includes almost the whole of Europe.

Do you catch my drift?

In international law it would be difficult to justify Kosovo's unilateral independence. It is clearly a breach of Serbian sovereignty. As such it should not be accepted, and as such it will serve as a precedent to any secessionist movement that wants to take advantage of it.

Having said that, I think Serbs should examine their own present and past policis toward minority ethnicities within their borders. Kosovo befell Serbia as a result of the Balkan wars, right? It's been part of Serbia for more than ninety years. It's curious that the Albanians have been, not integrated into Serbian society in any way, but deeply antagonised to the point that they are willing to wage a war for independence. Whatever Serbs on this page might say, the Albanians were hugely oppressed under Milosevic. Where I come from, Sweden, we received tens of thousands of Kosovo Albanian refugees during the nineties because of these policies.

I'm sure Kosovo Albanians would be quite happy to remain part of a powerful state such as Serbia - with such huge economic potential. If it weren't for the fact that that power has so many times in the past been used to oppress them.

As for Bosnia, it's astonishing that people can equate Serbian aggression during the war with the defense of peoples who had nowhere else to go. Anyone who has read anything impartial about the Bosnian war, know that it was aggression by massively well-armed Serb troops against (mostly) defenceless Bosniaks. Only later, after three years, did the latter begin to build up a good military potential. Please, this really was the case. Don't re-write history to soothe your national conscience.

miri you really do not grasp and/or accept the concept of law, legal obligations, legislation, legal order, all that western, judeo-christian malarkey;) do you? this is not a popularity contests. this is not a poetry contest. serbia has a rock solid legal case against allowing or recognizing a secession of a part of its territory. how someone feels, or what they think about it, who deserves what in the realms of poetic justice, is irrelevant. kosovo will never become an internationally recognized state. it can become a unilaterally recognized state. then those countries that make that recognition will send aid, robbing their tax payers, but they will not invest. this is the key here. a territory in permanent limbo will not get a dime of investment.
and then, what does poverty and frustration often mutate into in muslim territories?
i dont know how your sponsors will deal with it, hopefully fort dix was a good lesson. as for us, the best we have are on that boundary to protect us. and the best we have are pretty damn good ;)

It is more than likely that other regions of the world will point to a Kosovo solution in case Kosovo declare independence unilaterally and gain recognition from other countries. Why deny that. This problem is actually the only and real problem with the current Kosovo situation. It was quite normal until 1998/99, that armed individuals crossing international borders and committed attack on state institutions were labelled terrorists! Why not in Kosovo? Because these armed individuals were supported by nations within the the world elite. This fact cannot be hidden for history or future education worldwide. It is therefore in the interst of the entire world, and not only the aforementioned states, that a solution is found during negotiations. Serbia lost Kosovo long time ago, no doubt about that. Kosovo will become independent one day. However, Serbia needs guarantees from the international community - that security and living conditions for the Serb population and their cultural heritage in Kosovo is provided by the socalled new "state". Who in this world believe that the current government in Kosovo can guarantee this? This is a question to be solved in a manner that also take into consideration the situation in other parts of the Balkans. This process should not be directed by Albanians in Kosovo alone. EU and UN must find a solution without conditions being forwarded by the US and Russia due to their current disputes on the European security in general. Let the Kosovo government, assisted by Serbia, EU and the UN create the needed security institutions, monetary institutions and a sustainable economy for the province - then a declaration of Independence may sound and appear realistic.

"
So stop teaching lessons in morality, and start realizing, it's more about geopolitics and special interests.
Your terrorism is my freedom and vice versa.
The only difference being....unfortunately, what side of US foreign policy you happen to be on."

I couldn't have said it better. That's why RS doesn't have a chance because lacks the geopolitical interests of big powers, lacks any morality based on the oportunistic circumstances that was created and above all lacks the support of US and EU. If RS wants independence let it go for two decades with parallel institutions like Kosova did, let Croat and Bosnian federation kick out 1m of serbs living there, let NATO intervene and then we say "what is good for the goose is good for the gander". Until then don't preach "equality".

Those who say it will not create a precedent are wrong.

It will create a precedent:

Kosovo will act as a model for low-scale ethnic cleansing. Examples of this are threatening to hurt members of your own ethnic group if they do business with the other ethnic group. This can be followed by sneering, threats, fights, desecration of grave yards, burning of churches, refusing to give medical aid, etc., et.. Then when the other group are sufficiently provoked, get them to get into trouble and put the blame on them.

The precedent will work at that level all over the world.

On the legal front - what point is there in having any form of international law if it cannot be repected?

The justification for the intervention against Milosevic was based on international humanitarian law. Shall we choose to ignore humanitarian law in future?

Those who argue for a negotiated solution are right to do so.

The reward of a mono-ethically motivated state is wrong. On the other hand, stages towards agreed autonomy and cooperation for the future could benefit both sides considerably.

It would not benefit the successionists - but then I have no sympathy for their cause (and niether should the international community have any sympathy for it either).

wow.

once again we are blessed with the profound teachings of "miri".


to:
"belokapac",
don´t worry about the Republika Srpska being eradicated from the maps...

you should be worried about only appering on albanian maps.

so far I don´t see this overwhelming majority of states looking forward to recognize you.
remember: it´s 11:4 against in the UNSC.

you catch my drift?

Sorry - here is spelling correction for my earlier posting:

it is 'secessionists' I have no sympathy for not 'successionists'.

(and of course, the international community should have no sympathy for them either!)

People, plaease!!
If 'greater albania' happens and Kosovo goes, then so does Republika Srpska, and so does the Mitrovica pocket north of the Ibar. It's that simple! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. No double standards! Nobody can defend this double standard in a court of law, and they know it.
I can already hear the brass trumpet bands celebrating in Banja Luka if some in the west go ahead with their illegal and immoral 'greater albania' plan.
And for those of you who think that Russia will not recognize Republika Srpska in this kind of scenario, think again! Russia wants a strong ally in the balkans, and we are glad to oblige.
Cheers!

Most definitely, Kosovo sets the precedent for every separatist group to follow.
An illegal declaration of independence by Kosovo separatists is the beginning of CHAOS around the world.
Wake up!
International law must be respected.

miri wrote:
"Who wants independence will fight for it, it will make a case for it."

Yes, everybody seems to agree on this, accept when the Serbs are concerned.

"Unfortunately the creation of RS as the result of ethnic cleansing".

No, it's the result of defence and ethnic shifting..
How is it any different in the Federation, Krajina or Kosovo?

Bad gorilla wrote:
"the Kosovo War the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were the non-Serb Kosovars"

No, the main aggressors were the US policymakers who got the K-Albanians to sign on the bombing of Serbia.....Everybody seems to quickly step over that bump. How ironic.

"and in the case of Bosnian War, the main aggressors were the Serbs and the main victims were non-Serb Bosnians"

Did you finish some pre-requisite course in CNN journalism?
Have a look at the ethnic maps of Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo..Before and After.
You'll see the final result.
It's funny how you believe ethnic cleansing goes one way.

belokapac wrote:
"Republika Srpska is a creature based on terror and genocide".

No my friend, it's a harmonious state defended on freedom, sacrifice and defence of its enemies.

You see...
It all depends what side of the fence you're sitting on.

To all the Serb bashers on these boards:

Question:
If RS was the result of ethnic cleansing....Why.....Oh Why did the great overseer of world stability, fairness and all that's good on this planet, ALLOW the Dayton accord (therefore RS) to be signed by recognized?

Let's stick to the article please.
It's already a given. The end result of any Kosovo precedent would allow for other regions to declare similiar circumstances.


That's the whole point of this column.

So stop teaching lessons in morality, and start realizing, it's more about geopolitics and special interests.
Your terrorism is my freedom and vice versa.
The only difference being....unfortunately, what side of US foreign policy you happen to be on.

People, plaease!!
If 'greater albania' happens and Kosovo goes, then so does Republika Srpska, and so does the Mitrovica pocket north of the Ibar. It's that simple! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. No double standards! Nobody can defend this double standard in a court of law, and they know it.
I can already hear the brass trumpet bands celebrating in Banja Luka if some in the west go ahead with their illegal and immoral 'greater albania' plan.
(Dragan, 11 February 2008 23:03)
Thank you for your comment.
Serbia should be the first one to recognize the KiM independence and should link it to a Srbska Republik reunion with Serbia. It waste of time to pretend that Kosovo will not be independent and other countries will not recognize it. Oh please stop pretending. Get real and support the interest of Serbian whenever they live. Don't let them down.
Thanks,
Milan, Banja Luka.

Miri!
None of the ethnic groups named here had a state created before.
Not Croatians, Slovenians, Macedonians, Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Moldovians, Kazikhstanis, East Timorees...
and had a right to self-determination. Albanians have their national state and it's Albania. Outside of it you are minority, just like Germans are minority outside Germany, or Russians outside Russia. Read the international law. Do you see the precedent now?

As for Bosnia, it's astonishing that people can equate Serbian aggression during the war with the defense of peoples who had nowhere else to go. Anyone who has read anything impartial about the Bosnian war, know that it was aggression by massively well-armed Serb troops against (mostly) defenceless Bosniaks. Only later, after three years, did the latter begin to build up a good military potential. Please, this really was the case. Don't re-write history to soothe your national conscience.
(Martin, 12 February 2008 10:29)

Defenseless Bosniaks? You have the audacity to claim historical fact.

Bosnia and Herzegovina declared independance under Alija Isetbegovic who laid seige to the JNA barracks murdering JNA officers in the process sparking a civil war. The Bosnian Serb leadership under Karadzic reacted and by referendum declared that the Bosnian Serbs wanted to remain within the Federation of Yugoslavia.

A civil war broke out and guess what we now have?

A mini-Yugoslavia comprised of Serbs, Croats and converted slavs who call themselves Bosnian Muslims.

The so called Bosnian Federation created from the Dayton Accord which is another attempt to re-create Yugoslavia.

What was wrong with the old Yugoslavia and how is the new Bosnian Federation going to solve the same old problems.

Please spare us your historical facts.