Serbia needs more time, Slovenian officials say

The only thing irrational and rather patronizing, are Dinkic's comments.

The most financially stable and advanced countries in Europe are NOT part of the EU. The hihgest standard of living is in Norway and Norway is not in EU.

EU's rotten carrot should not be a temptation for Serbs. I think people have other concerns than 'traveling'.

Also, Serbs should be aware that even after entry into the EU, they will be required to hold a valid work visa in order to work in Western European Countries, such as UK.

So its not all the same, and you don't magically become rich everything is not peachy.

If life really got better in the Eastern European countries after EU entry, then they wouldn't all hurl in millions to the West to work the most awful jobs for appaling wage.

You will be required to adapt EU laws on everything and anything, just as you will be required to import things from other countries make.
You will be required to consume other products from other countries at a ridiculous price, over the goods of your own country which are cheper and of better quality.

You will be ruled from Brussels. Your governemt will be a puppet one, and will be ruled by people who don't even speak your language or live in your country.

If Serbia enters EU, Brussels will control the vital trade route to Middle East and Serbia will not be asked about anything from then on what happens within its borders. Its the terms and conditions of EU.
Read the small print.

Speak to someone whos mother state is part of the EU - they'll tell you how happy they are with the EU.
Yes, they can travel, but at the expence of their country's sovereignty .

Tina,
What EU country are you from, so you don't seem to have a general feel of what you're talking about.

If you buy a cheap car in France and drive it to Spain you will have to pay duty on it. If car is manufactured in France it will be registared in France - if you want to drive it in Spain, you need to registar it in Spain, and therefore you will pay duty on it, just like ANY other goods you purchase. This has nothing to do with EU.

And no, you may buy Feta ONLY from Greece. Greece is the only one that can manufacture feta and distribute it, by EU law.

1000 euros is a fairly low wage for someone who pays rent of 800 euros. How do you afford council tax, bills and transport, let alone other bills, going out, or even thinking about traveling.

And it is not same everywhere else. It might be around EU, but standard of life in Canada is way above that of any country in EU. Norway has even higher standard of living than Canada, and thus highest standard of living in the world, and it is not part of EU, because Norway knows that its standards will fall with the admission to EU.

EU maybe great for some people, but for UK is the worst thing that happened to it. It would be the worst thing that would happen for Serbia.

BKK - I don't know where you get your facts from, but you really need to check them.

a) Luxemburg has the highest standard of living (according to all sources). So the highest standard of living is in an EU country.

Yes, Norway and Switzerland are very prosperous, but they have a very close relationship with the EU. They are members of the EEA which means that they must implement most EU rules without any influence on deciding them (e.g. recently Switzerland had to ban importing brazilian beef which it uses in its sausages, even though it was against it). Basically Norway remains out in order to control its fisheries, and Switzerland for it banks (although it now has little freedom in this area). So claiming that Norway and Switzerland have freedom from the EU is falso, what they really have is a secondary form of membership.

Also Serbia is not like Switzerland and Norway. They were rich before the EU appeared. They did not need help with their developlmnt. No other organisation has helped the development of nations more than the EU. Look at Spain and Ireland. Both have prospered greatly since EU membership. i can think of no other country (other than oil rich countries, or China [people rich]) who have developed as quick. Serbia does not fit into the latter two categories.
You also mention Canada. Again it has been developed for a long time, and benefits from a small population and lots of natural resources. And it is a member of NAFTA with the US which also helps (the closest thing to the EU in north america).


You also have no comprehension of EU trade rules. If I buy anything in the EEA for personal use (i.e. not to sell in another country) I do NOT need to pay duty to import it. It's a free trade zone - that's the point.

And yes, initially work permits may be recquired for new members. This is not a new rule. It was the same for Spain, Portugal and Greece when they joined. I personally think it should be visa free, but that is a transitional arrangement for a maximum of 5 years.

Also, you over estimate how vital Serbia is a trade route. Useful, yes, but trade could go through Romania just as easily.

No one makes anyone consume something mor expensive from another country, when there is a cheaper alternative. Thsi shows your complete lack of understanding of how economics and business work.

I'm just hoping that when my first child is born in Spain or whatever other country in EU, my mother and father in law from Serbia can be there without any need for visas. Life "in the west" as many of you call it, is not that different from life in Serbia... I get a salary of 1000€ a month, yes, but I pay a rent of 800€. Please, stop manipulating people. WIth globalisation we are all leading similar lives. We have different languages, different customs...but similar lives nevertheless. Do you think Spain and England have more in common than with Serbia?. Whoever wants to travel and see the world, should be allowed to, and whoever wants to stay at home and not move...well, they should at least have the opportunity to do so, because you never know what life can bring you.
By the way, my mother country is a EU member , and I'm happy with it. We have better infrastructures thanks to EU subsidies, we can take part in EU programmes, learn languages, study abroad with scholarships, get work training experience in any country we want, we can take a low cost flight and visit family or friends more often otherwise we might only see once a year, my university degree is accepted by EU companies or universities, I can buy feta cheese from Greece, sausages from Germany or beer from Prague, but if I don't want too, I can still go to my local market and get my food from there. I can go and see my team play a final in Paris, check if the car I like is cheaper in France and buy it there, move and get medical attention in any other country in EU withouth worrying about private insurances...and even if I decide to work for a few years somewhere else, I can still get those years recognised by my government for my future pension...really, it is not bad to be part of EU!!!

Is it just me or is B92 starting to take a selective approach to jouralism (reporting) concerning the developments on Kosova during February.

8 out of 9 articles posted today directly or indirectly relate or promote the Serbian position on Kosova.

For a media that is viewed by many as a beacon of hope for free speach in Serbia, you are starting to look more like Serbianna.com without the "Muslim Terrorist Albanians....." headlines.

Comments by Blerim Shala, published today 7.2.2008 in kosovo daily "Zeri":

RATIONAL POLITICS AND INSANE REACTIONS

(Zeri, by Blerim Shala)



It should be admitted that the western rational politics encounters big troubles when it is ‘translated’ in some places in the Balkans, in particular in Belgrade. Loss in translation often happens. Thus, Brussels made some acrobatics and hybrid solutions, unseen so far, to enable Serbia to sign a political agreement with the EU as preparation for signing the Stabilisation Association Agreement. All this was done to overcome the reasonable Dutch blockade as Serbian authorities have been protecting and hiding Ratko Mladic, the author of the biggest crime in post-1945 Europe in Srebrenica, for 13 years.



All these EU efforts, which unified all relevant EU politicians, were refuted in the worst manner by the Serbian Government led by PM Vojislav Kostunica, who thinks that the EU should not have its own politics on the Balkans and Kosovo without getting a permission from him and his co-operators. In this way, Serbia kicked European politics, which has been trying to provide a perspective for this ‘peninsula’ made up of the last countries, which have not joined NATO and the EU yet. A policy build on reason may function only with reasonable people. Of course, Kostunica and his co-operators are not people of such a calibre.

Hey Bruce, it's very easy to dissect your statements, just as you have done with BKK, but lets not be so overzealous.....
His generalization of the situation is somewhat accurate.
Considering the state of the Serbian economy at present.....I don't see how an EU carrot stick can change the lives of it's everyday citizens..Especially for a country that relies so heavily on an agricultural base..

At present, asking Serbia to invest in the EU, is like asking a pig farmer to invest in a blue chip stock portfolio..

Physically, Serbia isn't going anywhere.

The whole Balkan region is being remapped for future cheap labour.
Although i agree with joining the EU eventually, I believe the EU is not doing anybody the favour, by offering premature signings and hopes..

I would have liked to have seen an EU push to get Serbia in line with future growth, (roadways, electrical grids, industrial facilities etc...)

If Serbia can't get on her own two feet via transparent Western investement, (you know...the ones without any political strings attached), then EU signings would be a farce for everybody.

Unfortunately, there's a huge vacuum of misinformation between EU policy people, politicians, and the average Joe...

Bruce,

You obviously think too highly of your knowledge of the EU and how it works. You're probably an American, even a Brit would know better about the realities of the EU, have you ever wondered why the UK has never adopted the Euro over their own Pound, no doubt your predicable conclusion will be the cost of transferring to the EURO.

"If you buy a cheap car in France and drive it to Spain you will have to pay duty on it."

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.

That's the whole point of the EU. It's a free trade zone.


Doug M.

Well, Canadian, it seems you aren't very good at predicting nationality.

I can explain why Britain has not joined the Euro. As a large country (economically), whose currency is the third most popular in terms of international reserves we are more able to support an individual currency without being penalised. Smaller currencies are more exposed to fluctuations, and therefore the effects of currency transactions.
Note that only Denmark and Sweden are outside of the Euro (of the EU-15), and that Denmark is having a referendum to join again. Denmark links its currency to the Euro, basically meaning it keeps the same exchange rate while suffering a somewhat higher interest rate in order to do so.
Norway and Iceland have even stated that they would like to join the Euro (however unlike Schengen they can't until they are fully EU members)
Also we wish to control our own interest rate policy.

In addition Canadian, I did not say the EU was pefect. it has problems, mainly to do with democratic accountability. However, I would contend that many of the problems of the EU are caused by the member governments (and their protectionist trade policies). In addition governments like to use the EU a scapegoat for problems which were actually caused by the member governments.

Brits also like their little Englander complex, and that is why they have high suspicion of the EU (maybe simila to Serbs in that respect), but we still wouldn't vote for leaning the union.

In the end - for its imperfections - having the EU is still far better than not having it (and it is arguably a far better and more efective orginisation and free trade area than your own NAFTA).

And, as I have said before, Serbia will prosper far better inside than outside. I cannot think of any countries which have done as well as those which have developed in the EU - i.e. Spain, Ireland etc. They were very arable based before membership, and now Ireland is one of the richest nations on earth. What example of economic development does Serbia hope to use if it isn't the EU?

Bruce,
Wrong.

When importing new or used cars, you have to pay registration duty, which is usually 60-63% of the market price. (although not limited to as every EU country has its own law on that). You must fill in a special form named "Value assessment of vehicle" at your regional customs and tax authorities. You submit the form together with your car s registration number. Then the regional customs and tax authorities determine the value of your car and forward you a claim on a deposit of the duty. The deposit is calculated on the basis of an interim value estimate of your car.

In France, when re-registering you pay the tax of 19.6%.

Registration duty is MANDATORY.
You cannot drive in another EU country with a other EU country registered vehicles more than 4 months. 3 months in France. About 5 months in UK.

After that period is over, you need to re-registrar your car to that country's registration an you will pay DUTY TAX to that government.

Facts are on all official websites. You're on the internet. Use it.

BKK - again you seem confused.

I am using the internet.

If VAT has been paid in one member state, you do not need to pay it when reregistering in another.
Yes, you are obliged to reregister after a certain amount of time, and there are some administrative fees, but the poin of the EU is you only pay duty once - in one state.

As long as you can prove you've paid UK VAT - no need to pay French Vat on reregistering

http://www.gites-in-vendee.com/links_property_france_car_registration.htm

Is it just me or is B92 starting to take a selective approach to jouralism (reporting) concerning the developments on Kosova during February.

8 out of 9 articles posted today directly or indirectly relate or promote the Serbian position on Kosova.

For a media that is viewed by many as a beacon of hope for free speach in Serbia, you are starting to look more like Serbianna.com without the "Muslim Terrorist Albanians....." headlines.

Comments by Blerim Shala, published today 7.2.2008 in kosovo daily "Zeri":

RATIONAL POLITICS AND INSANE REACTIONS

(Zeri, by Blerim Shala)



It should be admitted that the western rational politics encounters big troubles when it is ‘translated’ in some places in the Balkans, in particular in Belgrade. Loss in translation often happens. Thus, Brussels made some acrobatics and hybrid solutions, unseen so far, to enable Serbia to sign a political agreement with the EU as preparation for signing the Stabilisation Association Agreement. All this was done to overcome the reasonable Dutch blockade as Serbian authorities have been protecting and hiding Ratko Mladic, the author of the biggest crime in post-1945 Europe in Srebrenica, for 13 years.



All these EU efforts, which unified all relevant EU politicians, were refuted in the worst manner by the Serbian Government led by PM Vojislav Kostunica, who thinks that the EU should not have its own politics on the Balkans and Kosovo without getting a permission from him and his co-operators. In this way, Serbia kicked European politics, which has been trying to provide a perspective for this ‘peninsula’ made up of the last countries, which have not joined NATO and the EU yet. A policy build on reason may function only with reasonable people. Of course, Kostunica and his co-operators are not people of such a calibre.

Tina,
What EU country are you from, so you don't seem to have a general feel of what you're talking about.

If you buy a cheap car in France and drive it to Spain you will have to pay duty on it. If car is manufactured in France it will be registared in France - if you want to drive it in Spain, you need to registar it in Spain, and therefore you will pay duty on it, just like ANY other goods you purchase. This has nothing to do with EU.

And no, you may buy Feta ONLY from Greece. Greece is the only one that can manufacture feta and distribute it, by EU law.

1000 euros is a fairly low wage for someone who pays rent of 800 euros. How do you afford council tax, bills and transport, let alone other bills, going out, or even thinking about traveling.

And it is not same everywhere else. It might be around EU, but standard of life in Canada is way above that of any country in EU. Norway has even higher standard of living than Canada, and thus highest standard of living in the world, and it is not part of EU, because Norway knows that its standards will fall with the admission to EU.

EU maybe great for some people, but for UK is the worst thing that happened to it. It would be the worst thing that would happen for Serbia.

The only thing irrational and rather patronizing, are Dinkic's comments.

The most financially stable and advanced countries in Europe are NOT part of the EU. The hihgest standard of living is in Norway and Norway is not in EU.

EU's rotten carrot should not be a temptation for Serbs. I think people have other concerns than 'traveling'.

Also, Serbs should be aware that even after entry into the EU, they will be required to hold a valid work visa in order to work in Western European Countries, such as UK.

So its not all the same, and you don't magically become rich everything is not peachy.

If life really got better in the Eastern European countries after EU entry, then they wouldn't all hurl in millions to the West to work the most awful jobs for appaling wage.

You will be required to adapt EU laws on everything and anything, just as you will be required to import things from other countries make.
You will be required to consume other products from other countries at a ridiculous price, over the goods of your own country which are cheper and of better quality.

You will be ruled from Brussels. Your governemt will be a puppet one, and will be ruled by people who don't even speak your language or live in your country.

If Serbia enters EU, Brussels will control the vital trade route to Middle East and Serbia will not be asked about anything from then on what happens within its borders. Its the terms and conditions of EU.
Read the small print.

Speak to someone whos mother state is part of the EU - they'll tell you how happy they are with the EU.
Yes, they can travel, but at the expence of their country's sovereignty .

I'm just hoping that when my first child is born in Spain or whatever other country in EU, my mother and father in law from Serbia can be there without any need for visas. Life "in the west" as many of you call it, is not that different from life in Serbia... I get a salary of 1000€ a month, yes, but I pay a rent of 800€. Please, stop manipulating people. WIth globalisation we are all leading similar lives. We have different languages, different customs...but similar lives nevertheless. Do you think Spain and England have more in common than with Serbia?. Whoever wants to travel and see the world, should be allowed to, and whoever wants to stay at home and not move...well, they should at least have the opportunity to do so, because you never know what life can bring you.
By the way, my mother country is a EU member , and I'm happy with it. We have better infrastructures thanks to EU subsidies, we can take part in EU programmes, learn languages, study abroad with scholarships, get work training experience in any country we want, we can take a low cost flight and visit family or friends more often otherwise we might only see once a year, my university degree is accepted by EU companies or universities, I can buy feta cheese from Greece, sausages from Germany or beer from Prague, but if I don't want too, I can still go to my local market and get my food from there. I can go and see my team play a final in Paris, check if the car I like is cheaper in France and buy it there, move and get medical attention in any other country in EU withouth worrying about private insurances...and even if I decide to work for a few years somewhere else, I can still get those years recognised by my government for my future pension...really, it is not bad to be part of EU!!!

BKK - I don't know where you get your facts from, but you really need to check them.

a) Luxemburg has the highest standard of living (according to all sources). So the highest standard of living is in an EU country.

Yes, Norway and Switzerland are very prosperous, but they have a very close relationship with the EU. They are members of the EEA which means that they must implement most EU rules without any influence on deciding them (e.g. recently Switzerland had to ban importing brazilian beef which it uses in its sausages, even though it was against it). Basically Norway remains out in order to control its fisheries, and Switzerland for it banks (although it now has little freedom in this area). So claiming that Norway and Switzerland have freedom from the EU is falso, what they really have is a secondary form of membership.

Also Serbia is not like Switzerland and Norway. They were rich before the EU appeared. They did not need help with their developlmnt. No other organisation has helped the development of nations more than the EU. Look at Spain and Ireland. Both have prospered greatly since EU membership. i can think of no other country (other than oil rich countries, or China [people rich]) who have developed as quick. Serbia does not fit into the latter two categories.
You also mention Canada. Again it has been developed for a long time, and benefits from a small population and lots of natural resources. And it is a member of NAFTA with the US which also helps (the closest thing to the EU in north america).


You also have no comprehension of EU trade rules. If I buy anything in the EEA for personal use (i.e. not to sell in another country) I do NOT need to pay duty to import it. It's a free trade zone - that's the point.

And yes, initially work permits may be recquired for new members. This is not a new rule. It was the same for Spain, Portugal and Greece when they joined. I personally think it should be visa free, but that is a transitional arrangement for a maximum of 5 years.

Also, you over estimate how vital Serbia is a trade route. Useful, yes, but trade could go through Romania just as easily.

No one makes anyone consume something mor expensive from another country, when there is a cheaper alternative. Thsi shows your complete lack of understanding of how economics and business work.

Hey Bruce, it's very easy to dissect your statements, just as you have done with BKK, but lets not be so overzealous.....
His generalization of the situation is somewhat accurate.
Considering the state of the Serbian economy at present.....I don't see how an EU carrot stick can change the lives of it's everyday citizens..Especially for a country that relies so heavily on an agricultural base..

At present, asking Serbia to invest in the EU, is like asking a pig farmer to invest in a blue chip stock portfolio..

Physically, Serbia isn't going anywhere.

The whole Balkan region is being remapped for future cheap labour.
Although i agree with joining the EU eventually, I believe the EU is not doing anybody the favour, by offering premature signings and hopes..

I would have liked to have seen an EU push to get Serbia in line with future growth, (roadways, electrical grids, industrial facilities etc...)

If Serbia can't get on her own two feet via transparent Western investement, (you know...the ones without any political strings attached), then EU signings would be a farce for everybody.

Unfortunately, there's a huge vacuum of misinformation between EU policy people, politicians, and the average Joe...

"If you buy a cheap car in France and drive it to Spain you will have to pay duty on it."

I'm sorry, but that's just not true.

That's the whole point of the EU. It's a free trade zone.


Doug M.

Bruce,

You obviously think too highly of your knowledge of the EU and how it works. You're probably an American, even a Brit would know better about the realities of the EU, have you ever wondered why the UK has never adopted the Euro over their own Pound, no doubt your predicable conclusion will be the cost of transferring to the EURO.

Well, Canadian, it seems you aren't very good at predicting nationality.

I can explain why Britain has not joined the Euro. As a large country (economically), whose currency is the third most popular in terms of international reserves we are more able to support an individual currency without being penalised. Smaller currencies are more exposed to fluctuations, and therefore the effects of currency transactions.
Note that only Denmark and Sweden are outside of the Euro (of the EU-15), and that Denmark is having a referendum to join again. Denmark links its currency to the Euro, basically meaning it keeps the same exchange rate while suffering a somewhat higher interest rate in order to do so.
Norway and Iceland have even stated that they would like to join the Euro (however unlike Schengen they can't until they are fully EU members)
Also we wish to control our own interest rate policy.

In addition Canadian, I did not say the EU was pefect. it has problems, mainly to do with democratic accountability. However, I would contend that many of the problems of the EU are caused by the member governments (and their protectionist trade policies). In addition governments like to use the EU a scapegoat for problems which were actually caused by the member governments.

Brits also like their little Englander complex, and that is why they have high suspicion of the EU (maybe simila to Serbs in that respect), but we still wouldn't vote for leaning the union.

In the end - for its imperfections - having the EU is still far better than not having it (and it is arguably a far better and more efective orginisation and free trade area than your own NAFTA).

And, as I have said before, Serbia will prosper far better inside than outside. I cannot think of any countries which have done as well as those which have developed in the EU - i.e. Spain, Ireland etc. They were very arable based before membership, and now Ireland is one of the richest nations on earth. What example of economic development does Serbia hope to use if it isn't the EU?

Bruce,
Wrong.

When importing new or used cars, you have to pay registration duty, which is usually 60-63% of the market price. (although not limited to as every EU country has its own law on that). You must fill in a special form named "Value assessment of vehicle" at your regional customs and tax authorities. You submit the form together with your car s registration number. Then the regional customs and tax authorities determine the value of your car and forward you a claim on a deposit of the duty. The deposit is calculated on the basis of an interim value estimate of your car.

In France, when re-registering you pay the tax of 19.6%.

Registration duty is MANDATORY.
You cannot drive in another EU country with a other EU country registered vehicles more than 4 months. 3 months in France. About 5 months in UK.

After that period is over, you need to re-registrar your car to that country's registration an you will pay DUTY TAX to that government.

Facts are on all official websites. You're on the internet. Use it.

BKK - again you seem confused.

I am using the internet.

If VAT has been paid in one member state, you do not need to pay it when reregistering in another.
Yes, you are obliged to reregister after a certain amount of time, and there are some administrative fees, but the poin of the EU is you only pay duty once - in one state.

As long as you can prove you've paid UK VAT - no need to pay French Vat on reregistering

http://www.gites-in-vendee.com/links_property_france_car_registration.htm