That is very difficult when surrounded by EU states, unless you have a free trade agreement with them (like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland), but at the rate Kostunica is going, even this will be impossible.
This arrogant nationalism will perhaps maintain the principles of pride amongst older, conservative Serbs as well as impressionable teenagers, but the educated class will go elsewhere where they can make full use of their capabilities and the country will get a taste of this nationalistic-induced isolation that Albania had years before, except maybe keeping trade open with countries that would hardly benefit Serbia.
I actually think what the EU just offered is all Serbia really needs, Free Trade and abolishing visa’s. That way Serbia can take advantage of their traditional role between East and West. Already, France is using Serbia as a trading partner in order to take advantage of our Free Trade with Russia. Joining the EU fully would eliminate that highly lucrative role we’ve always played. Give the EU some time to digest their recent acquisitions in a healthy manner and get Russia more fully involved. A strong Russia in the EU would mean a healthy and well balanced EU where more voices will be heard. Serbia can encourage that.
I personally see no reason to rush blindly into the EU. I do strongly believe more caution in our approach is a good thing. We must make sure our relationship is clear from the outset.
Personally, I think Serbs need to remain united. However, the recent election seems to indicate to me a backlash against European integration, so maybe a go slow approach is more healthy for Serbia’s emerging democracy. Tadic is barely hanging on, and that does not give him a strong mandate to make such decisions.
If Serbia is smart, they can get all of the advantages of joining the EU, without giving up her independence. Keep in mind the Yugoslav passport was one of the most desired back in the day, you could travel anywhere in the world with it. Do not let the skeptics persuade you that it’s a choice between the EU or Russia only when we can be good friends and strong allies with both. The EU most certainly will wait, its not like we’re moving out of Europe any time soon.
I agree that we should not be rude about it though. The current situation just makes all the Serbian politicians look foolish.
So, pestering is the solution you are putting forward.
Nice.
It does show ingenuity, commitment and open-minded approach.
See, you are a bit too late for that I am afraid.
If only Serbian team had you in their group during the numerous meetings they had in regards to Kosova. Where were you only a year ago?
What a waste of a great idea. By the way, if you want I can try to find it and forward you the email of the Kosova government.
You never know if you send them 1000 emails a day they might give up the fight for Independence.
P.S. Did you get this idea from the “you’ve got Mail” movie (just curious).
Tom O'Donoghue: Thank you very much for the email you provided. We will be writing to the minister to advocate independence.
Princip, bmrusila & company:
I would be tempted to compare Kostunica to Don Quichote, but I realized that that would not be fair on Don Quichote. While Kostunica's plans and rhetoric vis-a-vis Kosova as well as his 'fight against the world' resemble very much a fight against windmills, differently from Don Quichote, who genuinely believed in his mission, Kostunica's motivation is a purely cynical strategy for hanging on to power which might play well with some frustrated Serbs such yourselves, but as far as the rest of the world goes is making it clear as crystal that Kostunica is but a old style, self-serving 'Nationalist' and crypto-Democrat who would probably sell his mother to get rid of Tadic and hang on to power.
Princip You are confusing the national interest with the will of the people. Just because a million people marched against the war in Iraq doesnt mean it was against the national interest.
In fact one could easily make the Serbian position argument - that the UK's (Serbia's) interest is to be on the America's (Russia's) side because the US (Russia) is an important strategic ally. One might think that British companies gain economic benefit by the immoral activity of their government. The pro Russian lobby say that here - albeit with far less evidence to prove their point.
I agree with you that compulsory ID cards should be taken off the agenda. I also think that mandatory ID cards, reminiscent of communist times should be outlawed in Serbia. Yes in Serbia remember we have mandatory ID cards and police can stop and search whenever the hell they want. Those ID cards even contain our damn fingerprints!!! I hope you complain about this and dont think it is normal or something. Yeah there is no question that we have MUCH less civil rights in Serbia.
I dont believe that the EU is a bed of roses. I have lived in the EU, I know what its like. However, the quality of life in EU states (excluding recent entries) is much higher. Institutions work better than in Serbia (not much better but better nevertheless - I have worked in Serbian state institutions).
Membership of the EU is an improvement for Serbia. Whats more there is no alternative and EU membership is inevitable.
Fine if the EU falls to pieces before then I'm not going to cry about it. We'll have some similar European organisation to replace it anyway with less power.
I'm keeping out of all these silly arguments. If Serbia is not united there is no hope for Kosovo.
Here is something that can be done. Yesterday in the Irish Parliament our Minister for Foreign Affairs said the following in relation to recognition of a Kosovo UDI:
" The Government has not yet taken a decision on the question of national recognition of Kosovo independence, and I believe that it would be not be helpful for me to speculate on this matter in advance of any declaration of independence. As indicated, strenuous efforts will be made to agree a common EU approach in response to any such declaration."
So the Irish government is playing it by ear. The Minister's name is Dermot Ahern and his email address is: minister@dfa.ie
I would suggest that all who read this and oppose Kosovo independence should email the minister with a reasoned appeal not to recognise a UDI.
People who live in other countries might also provide the email addresses of relevant ministers and we can start an email campaign. So who's next?
"Other countries of course have strong political parties but they tend to pay attention to the national interest, not here. "
- look into the states of the EU that you would want to be party to. I think you will find the grass is sadly no greener.
For instance in the UK 1 million went on a march against the impending illegal war against Iraq - did Bliar listen, did he act in the national interest - NO. As a result of this illegal war the UK is now introducing more an more draconian measures removing civil liberties, ID cards, surveliance camera's, DNA databases, we are being watched over like never before all in the pretence that it is in our interest.
All the while the actions of of our so-called interest create greater insecurity with what is termed "home grown terrorists" who of course reacted to the illegal war in their own demented minds with more violence, murder or attempts at murder of other innocent citizens going about on a Bus,underground, Airport or just clubbing the night away!
I am sure the likes of Kate may reflect similar sentiment with regards the UK. Tom Donaghue from Ireland is fairly likely to comment about the overarching EU political elites (many unelected) who dictate our lives all the more. Dictate in many ways similar to what you have alluded to for the dying days of Yugoslavia but opposite in that then it was representing local elites for regional interest - an extra port and jobs where none was required because one existed 50 km away in another republic - or did some have an agenda even then! However, across the EU it is all the worse in that it seems like these "elites" and multinationals have all our lives stiched up and controlled in their own interest of the few at the cost of all - its like they have colluded and rather then fight against each other for local dominance they conmine to squeese the greatest amount of self profit.
Look into inequalities and the Lorenz curve if you have an interest in economic devleopment and signs of impending inequality or control of capital. It as if history is reverting to the early days of capitalism that marx's warned of. I am not a marxist - far from it but I sense that things in the west will come to a head quite rapidly in the near future.
Bganon, I am not having a go but I am just saying don't be so naive to believe that life in the EU is all singing and dancing while Serbia has nothing to offer. Make that differnce in Serbia maybe not for yourself immediatly but in time since nothing can happen overnight. The American dream put across in hollywoods films is a figment of reality for a few lucky ones so that they there are examples that continue to subjegate the masses and place the onus on the individuals failure - "you clearly don'have what it takes!". Sadly the motto that works best is not one based on meritocracy and equality of life chances but one that applied to the "communist" (not a real communism but a facade communist) experiment of Eastern Europe - its not what you know but who you know!
Kate, it depends from which angle you look at it.
I am certanin that you know what I mean. I hope you are stil belieing that Kosova is still part of Serbia and I would like to remain for you like that for as long as you wish. I hope to speak to you in 2-3 years time and discuss this issue then Kate.
I do believe to some extend that Kostunica is the most principled politician in our country. Or better, to say that he is the only one that I can trust the most. Somehow, maybe weirdly, I do not believe that all he does, he do only for his own benefit. I would never categorized Kostunica as communist, far from that. However, you are right that all we need now is unity, and I said many times before that all political parties in Serbia should closely work together and work on establishing good cooperation between each other. What I hate the most is the fact that some parties put personal interests before national. I was very disappointed by Niklic’s rejection to meet Tadic. That is not how it is supposed to work, and you are right when claiming that our parties put personal interests before national. Well, I don’t know am I crazy but in my eyes only Kostunica seems to put national interests before personal. In addition, when Voja stabbed Nikolic in the back I admit it was not fair. But I like to believe that he has done that because he did preferred to stay with democrats after all as he was aware that Serbia has better chance in international circles with democratic block than with radicals. In my opinion he personally would benefit more with radicals than with democrats. At least this is how I see it. What I want is to see them all together working on prosperity of the country regardless of what political parties they all belong. And all of them I expect to have unified stand of Kosovo.
Bganon, I am fully aware that the economy and the system in general preceded the collapse of ex YU. I just wanted to briefly explain how suddenly people of different nations decided not to leave next to each other without going to much in details. When I said that some republics of ex Yu felt inferior I just repeated the claims of those republics. The truth is that they always claimed of being oppressed by Belgrade and Serbs. And yes, of course if EU ever collapses it is going to be because of the economy, naturally and it may lead to the war that would start with small sporadic clashes between natives and immigrants (all over the Europe) before it develops in real war.
Kosova's link to Serbia is only on a thin paper, and this last link is about to be broken soon. In all other practicality and reality, Kosova IS NOT part of Serbia.
Many of you will continue to say the same thing even after Independence is proclaimed and recognized by the majority of countries in EU and in the World, however by that time it will sound extremely ridiculous. Furthermore the thrill will be gone and I guess will be not point of writing in this forum anymore.
Olf: You seem to be unaware that Kosovo is a legally recognised province of Serbia. That's a fact, no matter how many times you or anyone else denies it.
Even those nations who seek to recognise an illegal declaration of independence know and say frequently that it's currently part of Serbia.
'I don’t know can anyone believe that Kostunica would obstruct anyone’s work if he wasn’t thinking that it was important to meet and discuss'
Let me explain, we currently live in a party state. A state where the needs of the party are put above the needs of the individual or the country. Other countries of course have strong political parties but they tend to pay attention to the national interest, not here. Our case is / was supposedly a progression on having a one party state but it is a sign of a society badly struggling with democracy. Leaders such as Kostunica know no other system, they were born into it so it is hardly surprising they are behaving in a similar way - even if they are not communist.
Now I might have agreed with you on Koustnica in 2000 when we thought he was principled. But after years of watching this guy we know exactly who he is. He is concerned with his own party above all, he uses blackmail to get his own way, when he does not get his own way he sulks like a child and makes threats. He does nothing for fun. I dont think inhuman people like him even have fun (another clue as to why he should not be leader, that is just creepy).
What he does is move the goalposts for each argument to suit his opinion. There is no principle in that. There was nothing more disgusting and unprincipled that his and his party's conduct during the election and stabbing in the back of Tomislav Nikolic.
If you cant see that then you are one of those who sees only what he wishes to see.
'The war in ex Yugoslavia broke out because certain republics felt inferior '
The real reason the republics fell out was economic (it was about money of course). Slovenia didnt want to pay most into the federal budget and on top of that have the least political influence etc.
On top of that the local power elites / bueracracies wanted to extend their power. They could not do that with a single centralised bureacracy in Belgrade. The ending of Yugoslavia did not come about from the bottom up. It was artificially generated from the top down. Of course that is not to say there were not problems, there were many but Yugoslavia fell because of political leaders not because of the people.
This feeling of inferiority was a story spun over and over again through various national medias (particularly in Croatia), to encourage support for independence. History was re-written, the cult of victimhood because well established and accepted.
Nobody spoke about the benefits of Yugoslavia, it was all about how THEY stole from US, humiliated us and so on.
Of course who THEY were varied from republic to republic but it was never US.
If the EU does fail, it will again be about money, not about complexes of one kind or another. We must remember just because some of us might have felt superior or inferior doesnt mean that this was the reason the country broke up.
Of course that they will discuss Kosova issue. Why are they meeting after all?
They have just send this message to further deceive Serbs.
Oh, what happened to the resolution for Kosova adopted by the parliament not long ago? Have you forgotten about it so quickly? Or Maybe that was one of the ways to deceive the public as well?
Serbs, wake up, don’t let them fool again. Let aside Milosevic style politics and dirty trick and focus on the EU integration for sake of you children.
bmrusila accept the loss of something that was never yours and carry on with your life, r if you cannot accept the loss of than dont spoil the future of Serbs.
Kostunica is harming Serbia with his recent behaviour, there is nothing more to add. With him as head of government, he will isolate Serbia from the countries that recognize Kosovo, leaving Serbia surrounded by EU states while probably not even having a tree trade agreement with them, meaning they will have to trade with the third, fourth and fith world countries around the world. It will not work!
Just today, a personal example of the impact this had (I work in Warsaw), we had a situation thanks to Kostunica, we organized an operational outages (in power generation) business platform in Prague, and already we have received cancellations, thus financial losses (thousands of Euros) from EPS (Elektroprivreda Serbija) and Kostolac power plant, while they will not have the opportunity to come into contact with the latest European outage strategies and technologies, not to mention networking opportunities with major European utilities. This is one little example.
Kosovo is not worth this, I am sure the Serbian economy will suffer heavily from this, and we are talking many people. Forget Kosovo and stop being so arrogant Kostunica, you will only eventually lose popularity in Serbia, because the people will be sick to death of isolation thanks to you.
Kaliningrad is not a good example. The Kaliningrad oblast currently has a booming economy and full employment. In fact, their main proplem is finding people to work.
"European Parliament Rapporteur for Serbia Jelko Kacin also expressed his disappointment, stating that Serbia was on the verge of self-isolation."
I'm taking this as a treath from EU. Norway and Switzerland did not join EU, but they did not self-isolete themselves. Why do you treath Serbia?
bmrusila, is it really true you are not aware that kostunica, the legalist, was, or was attempting to, break the law? he was trying to dodge scheduling a REGULAR session! That my dear is attempted coup. make no mistake about it. he was trying to circumvent this country's laws for his personal benefit. personal. not national, despite of what he says. serbia needs to be ruled by law. this kind of thing is unacceptable, forget political preferences. anyone who loves serbia will not support those who are turning it into a lawless mess.
as for those who are wondering why we serbs debate these issues and have different opinions. that's called mature democracy. that is normal in normal societies. we do not get orders from tribal leaders and then follow them or get shot and thrown into a lake or something. serbia is a democracy and there are different views and we express them freely.
Why you are so aggressive, why do you write my name so aggressively? Let me tell you briefly- I don’t care if Albania, Macedonia, and Croatia et al wish to join the EU but I wish Serbia to stay away from that Union. I hope when Serbia (if ever invited) is about to enter another “Yugoslavia”, will organise referendum and the wish of the majority will decide YES or NO. All I want is referendum. I am just an individual who oppose this idea because I have lived in one Yugoslavia and honestly I would not like to live in another one. The war in ex Yugoslavia broke out because certain republics felt inferior and for not being enough independent. After spilling so much blood all ex YU republics got what they wanted and therefore I don’t understand why to rush in some another Union of exactly the same type (maybe even worse). Serbia does not need this after paying so dearly by its blood in that war. I don’t believe in these sorts of unions any longer, not in Europe any way. While in Finland for a while, I learnt that Europe in general, especially Scandinavian countries always were taking ex Yugoslavia as an example of possible multicultural co-existence. Some European countries tried to solve some of their minority issues based on example of Yugoslavia. That was really nice to learn. But, the European admiration for ex Yugoslavia did not last for long when the war broke out and when all these nations suddenly decided that they cannot live with each other any more. Did you get my point? I just don’t believe in EU survival. However, what ever happens to the EU, I still wish Serbia to stay out of the EU. The bad treatment of Serbia by the EU is another story and additional negative feeling that I store for that bureaucratic institution.
"Commenting on the remarks of EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn, Ristivojević said that it was very important to bear in mind the fact that Rehn unequivocally advocated unilateral independence for Kosovo, and that he was calling for the illegal dispatch of an EU mission to implement the rejected Martti Ahtisaari plan. "
- et tu EU....
Just like the visiting Foreign Minister from Finland all smiles with Tadic in Belgrade one day and the next proposing the illegal dismemberment of the State he just visited and shook hands with withs President !
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=05&nav_id=47495 http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id81933.html
I have a message for BMRUSILA and other Serbs who are against the EU: You should be thankful that the EU is opening its doors to Serbia. If Serbia does not join the EU what options does the country have?
BMRUSILA, mabye you would like Serbia to join the CIS? The reality is that Serbia has no other option but to join the EU. Otherwise, Serbia will remain isolated and would be like the Russian enclave Kaliningrad surrounded by the EU. You ask why? Because Croatia, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro,Bosnia and Kosovo will all join the EU in the future. And Serbia will join Russia and the CIS right?
BMRUSILA, the EU is not obligated to admit Serbia into the club. The citizens of Serbia should thank the EU for making efforts to help Serbia to become an EU member state.
With respect, the headline on the article "Government rift sinks EU deal" is misleading.
The EU "deal" has not been sunk. Use of the verb "to sink" suggests that the offer on the table is lost. That is incorrect.
Commissioner Rehn said as much stating that the agreement could be signed later. Therefore if it will be signed later it is merely delayed not "sunk" and gone forever.
“State institutions have to do their own jobs and no-one is allowed to obstruct their work because of party interests,” the president said.
-Are you so sure Mr President that Mr Kostunica’s intention is to obstruct someone’s work just like that, just for fun? Are you so sure that he did it just for his own party interests? Very hypocritical statement coming from you, Mr Tadic. I don’t know can anyone believe that Kostunica would obstruct anyone’s work if he wasn’t thinking that it was important to meet and discuss. Seems democrats are afraid of discussion. Why they don’t come into public and explain what the deal offered by the EU includes, what does that deal mean in general, how important is for our citizens.
Besides, why not ask people in referendum about it after they were explained in detail about the nature of that political deal.
“State institutions have to do their own jobs and no-one is allowed to obstruct their work because of party interests,” the president said.
-Are you so sure Mr President that Mr Kostunica’s intention is to obstruct someone’s work just like that, just for fun? Are you so sure that he did it just for his own party interests? Very hypocritical statement coming from you, Mr Tadic. I don’t know can anyone believe that Kostunica would obstruct anyone’s work if he wasn’t thinking that it was important to meet and discuss. Seems democrats are afraid of discussion. Why they don’t come into public and explain what the deal offered by the EU includes, what does that deal mean in general, how important is for our citizens.
Besides, why not ask people in referendum about it after they were explained in detail about the nature of that political deal.
Why you are so aggressive, why do you write my name so aggressively? Let me tell you briefly- I don’t care if Albania, Macedonia, and Croatia et al wish to join the EU but I wish Serbia to stay away from that Union. I hope when Serbia (if ever invited) is about to enter another “Yugoslavia”, will organise referendum and the wish of the majority will decide YES or NO. All I want is referendum. I am just an individual who oppose this idea because I have lived in one Yugoslavia and honestly I would not like to live in another one. The war in ex Yugoslavia broke out because certain republics felt inferior and for not being enough independent. After spilling so much blood all ex YU republics got what they wanted and therefore I don’t understand why to rush in some another Union of exactly the same type (maybe even worse). Serbia does not need this after paying so dearly by its blood in that war. I don’t believe in these sorts of unions any longer, not in Europe any way. While in Finland for a while, I learnt that Europe in general, especially Scandinavian countries always were taking ex Yugoslavia as an example of possible multicultural co-existence. Some European countries tried to solve some of their minority issues based on example of Yugoslavia. That was really nice to learn. But, the European admiration for ex Yugoslavia did not last for long when the war broke out and when all these nations suddenly decided that they cannot live with each other any more. Did you get my point? I just don’t believe in EU survival. However, what ever happens to the EU, I still wish Serbia to stay out of the EU. The bad treatment of Serbia by the EU is another story and additional negative feeling that I store for that bureaucratic institution.
"Commenting on the remarks of EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn, Ristivojević said that it was very important to bear in mind the fact that Rehn unequivocally advocated unilateral independence for Kosovo, and that he was calling for the illegal dispatch of an EU mission to implement the rejected Martti Ahtisaari plan. "
- et tu EU....
Just like the visiting Foreign Minister from Finland all smiles with Tadic in Belgrade one day and the next proposing the illegal dismemberment of the State he just visited and shook hands with withs President !
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=05&nav_id=47495 http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id81933.html
"European Parliament Rapporteur for Serbia Jelko Kacin also expressed his disappointment, stating that Serbia was on the verge of self-isolation."
I'm taking this as a treath from EU. Norway and Switzerland did not join EU, but they did not self-isolete themselves. Why do you treath Serbia?
Kostunica is harming Serbia with his recent behaviour, there is nothing more to add. With him as head of government, he will isolate Serbia from the countries that recognize Kosovo, leaving Serbia surrounded by EU states while probably not even having a tree trade agreement with them, meaning they will have to trade with the third, fourth and fith world countries around the world. It will not work!
Just today, a personal example of the impact this had (I work in Warsaw), we had a situation thanks to Kostunica, we organized an operational outages (in power generation) business platform in Prague, and already we have received cancellations, thus financial losses (thousands of Euros) from EPS (Elektroprivreda Serbija) and Kostolac power plant, while they will not have the opportunity to come into contact with the latest European outage strategies and technologies, not to mention networking opportunities with major European utilities. This is one little example.
Kosovo is not worth this, I am sure the Serbian economy will suffer heavily from this, and we are talking many people. Forget Kosovo and stop being so arrogant Kostunica, you will only eventually lose popularity in Serbia, because the people will be sick to death of isolation thanks to you.
bmrusila, is it really true you are not aware that kostunica, the legalist, was, or was attempting to, break the law? he was trying to dodge scheduling a REGULAR session! That my dear is attempted coup. make no mistake about it. he was trying to circumvent this country's laws for his personal benefit. personal. not national, despite of what he says. serbia needs to be ruled by law. this kind of thing is unacceptable, forget political preferences. anyone who loves serbia will not support those who are turning it into a lawless mess.
as for those who are wondering why we serbs debate these issues and have different opinions. that's called mature democracy. that is normal in normal societies. we do not get orders from tribal leaders and then follow them or get shot and thrown into a lake or something. serbia is a democracy and there are different views and we express them freely.
Olf: You seem to be unaware that Kosovo is a legally recognised province of Serbia. That's a fact, no matter how many times you or anyone else denies it.
Even those nations who seek to recognise an illegal declaration of independence know and say frequently that it's currently part of Serbia.
I have a message for BMRUSILA and other Serbs who are against the EU: You should be thankful that the EU is opening its doors to Serbia. If Serbia does not join the EU what options does the country have?
BMRUSILA, mabye you would like Serbia to join the CIS? The reality is that Serbia has no other option but to join the EU. Otherwise, Serbia will remain isolated and would be like the Russian enclave Kaliningrad surrounded by the EU. You ask why? Because Croatia, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro,Bosnia and Kosovo will all join the EU in the future. And Serbia will join Russia and the CIS right?
BMRUSILA, the EU is not obligated to admit Serbia into the club. The citizens of Serbia should thank the EU for making efforts to help Serbia to become an EU member state.
Kaliningrad is not a good example. The Kaliningrad oblast currently has a booming economy and full employment. In fact, their main proplem is finding people to work.
With respect, the headline on the article "Government rift sinks EU deal" is misleading.
The EU "deal" has not been sunk. Use of the verb "to sink" suggests that the offer on the table is lost. That is incorrect.
Commissioner Rehn said as much stating that the agreement could be signed later. Therefore if it will be signed later it is merely delayed not "sunk" and gone forever.
I'm keeping out of all these silly arguments. If Serbia is not united there is no hope for Kosovo.
Here is something that can be done. Yesterday in the Irish Parliament our Minister for Foreign Affairs said the following in relation to recognition of a Kosovo UDI:
" The Government has not yet taken a decision on the question of national recognition of Kosovo independence, and I believe that it would be not be helpful for me to speculate on this matter in advance of any declaration of independence. As indicated, strenuous efforts will be made to agree a common EU approach in response to any such declaration."
So the Irish government is playing it by ear. The Minister's name is Dermot Ahern and his email address is: minister@dfa.ie
I would suggest that all who read this and oppose Kosovo independence should email the minister with a reasoned appeal not to recognise a UDI.
People who live in other countries might also provide the email addresses of relevant ministers and we can start an email campaign. So who's next?
Tom O'Donoghue: Thank you very much for the email you provided. We will be writing to the minister to advocate independence.
Princip, bmrusila & company:
I would be tempted to compare Kostunica to Don Quichote, but I realized that that would not be fair on Don Quichote. While Kostunica's plans and rhetoric vis-a-vis Kosova as well as his 'fight against the world' resemble very much a fight against windmills, differently from Don Quichote, who genuinely believed in his mission, Kostunica's motivation is a purely cynical strategy for hanging on to power which might play well with some frustrated Serbs such yourselves, but as far as the rest of the world goes is making it clear as crystal that Kostunica is but a old style, self-serving 'Nationalist' and crypto-Democrat who would probably sell his mother to get rid of Tadic and hang on to power.
"Other countries of course have strong political parties but they tend to pay attention to the national interest, not here. "
- look into the states of the EU that you would want to be party to. I think you will find the grass is sadly no greener.
For instance in the UK 1 million went on a march against the impending illegal war against Iraq - did Bliar listen, did he act in the national interest - NO. As a result of this illegal war the UK is now introducing more an more draconian measures removing civil liberties, ID cards, surveliance camera's, DNA databases, we are being watched over like never before all in the pretence that it is in our interest.
All the while the actions of of our so-called interest create greater insecurity with what is termed "home grown terrorists" who of course reacted to the illegal war in their own demented minds with more violence, murder or attempts at murder of other innocent citizens going about on a Bus,underground, Airport or just clubbing the night away!
I am sure the likes of Kate may reflect similar sentiment with regards the UK. Tom Donaghue from Ireland is fairly likely to comment about the overarching EU political elites (many unelected) who dictate our lives all the more. Dictate in many ways similar to what you have alluded to for the dying days of Yugoslavia but opposite in that then it was representing local elites for regional interest - an extra port and jobs where none was required because one existed 50 km away in another republic - or did some have an agenda even then! However, across the EU it is all the worse in that it seems like these "elites" and multinationals have all our lives stiched up and controlled in their own interest of the few at the cost of all - its like they have colluded and rather then fight against each other for local dominance they conmine to squeese the greatest amount of self profit.
Look into inequalities and the Lorenz curve if you have an interest in economic devleopment and signs of impending inequality or control of capital. It as if history is reverting to the early days of capitalism that marx's warned of. I am not a marxist - far from it but I sense that things in the west will come to a head quite rapidly in the near future.
Bganon, I am not having a go but I am just saying don't be so naive to believe that life in the EU is all singing and dancing while Serbia has nothing to offer. Make that differnce in Serbia maybe not for yourself immediatly but in time since nothing can happen overnight. The American dream put across in hollywoods films is a figment of reality for a few lucky ones so that they there are examples that continue to subjegate the masses and place the onus on the individuals failure - "you clearly don'have what it takes!". Sadly the motto that works best is not one based on meritocracy and equality of life chances but one that applied to the "communist" (not a real communism but a facade communist) experiment of Eastern Europe - its not what you know but who you know!
I do believe to some extend that Kostunica is the most principled politician in our country. Or better, to say that he is the only one that I can trust the most. Somehow, maybe weirdly, I do not believe that all he does, he do only for his own benefit. I would never categorized Kostunica as communist, far from that. However, you are right that all we need now is unity, and I said many times before that all political parties in Serbia should closely work together and work on establishing good cooperation between each other. What I hate the most is the fact that some parties put personal interests before national. I was very disappointed by Niklic’s rejection to meet Tadic. That is not how it is supposed to work, and you are right when claiming that our parties put personal interests before national. Well, I don’t know am I crazy but in my eyes only Kostunica seems to put national interests before personal. In addition, when Voja stabbed Nikolic in the back I admit it was not fair. But I like to believe that he has done that because he did preferred to stay with democrats after all as he was aware that Serbia has better chance in international circles with democratic block than with radicals. In my opinion he personally would benefit more with radicals than with democrats. At least this is how I see it. What I want is to see them all together working on prosperity of the country regardless of what political parties they all belong. And all of them I expect to have unified stand of Kosovo.
Bganon, I am fully aware that the economy and the system in general preceded the collapse of ex YU. I just wanted to briefly explain how suddenly people of different nations decided not to leave next to each other without going to much in details. When I said that some republics of ex Yu felt inferior I just repeated the claims of those republics. The truth is that they always claimed of being oppressed by Belgrade and Serbs. And yes, of course if EU ever collapses it is going to be because of the economy, naturally and it may lead to the war that would start with small sporadic clashes between natives and immigrants (all over the Europe) before it develops in real war.
'I don’t know can anyone believe that Kostunica would obstruct anyone’s work if he wasn’t thinking that it was important to meet and discuss'
Let me explain, we currently live in a party state. A state where the needs of the party are put above the needs of the individual or the country. Other countries of course have strong political parties but they tend to pay attention to the national interest, not here. Our case is / was supposedly a progression on having a one party state but it is a sign of a society badly struggling with democracy. Leaders such as Kostunica know no other system, they were born into it so it is hardly surprising they are behaving in a similar way - even if they are not communist.
Now I might have agreed with you on Koustnica in 2000 when we thought he was principled. But after years of watching this guy we know exactly who he is. He is concerned with his own party above all, he uses blackmail to get his own way, when he does not get his own way he sulks like a child and makes threats. He does nothing for fun. I dont think inhuman people like him even have fun (another clue as to why he should not be leader, that is just creepy).
What he does is move the goalposts for each argument to suit his opinion. There is no principle in that. There was nothing more disgusting and unprincipled that his and his party's conduct during the election and stabbing in the back of Tomislav Nikolic.
If you cant see that then you are one of those who sees only what he wishes to see.
'The war in ex Yugoslavia broke out because certain republics felt inferior '
The real reason the republics fell out was economic (it was about money of course). Slovenia didnt want to pay most into the federal budget and on top of that have the least political influence etc.
On top of that the local power elites / bueracracies wanted to extend their power. They could not do that with a single centralised bureacracy in Belgrade. The ending of Yugoslavia did not come about from the bottom up. It was artificially generated from the top down. Of course that is not to say there were not problems, there were many but Yugoslavia fell because of political leaders not because of the people.
This feeling of inferiority was a story spun over and over again through various national medias (particularly in Croatia), to encourage support for independence. History was re-written, the cult of victimhood because well established and accepted.
Nobody spoke about the benefits of Yugoslavia, it was all about how THEY stole from US, humiliated us and so on.
Of course who THEY were varied from republic to republic but it was never US.
If the EU does fail, it will again be about money, not about complexes of one kind or another. We must remember just because some of us might have felt superior or inferior doesnt mean that this was the reason the country broke up.
Of course that they will discuss Kosova issue. Why are they meeting after all?
They have just send this message to further deceive Serbs.
Oh, what happened to the resolution for Kosova adopted by the parliament not long ago? Have you forgotten about it so quickly? Or Maybe that was one of the ways to deceive the public as well?
Serbs, wake up, don’t let them fool again. Let aside Milosevic style politics and dirty trick and focus on the EU integration for sake of you children.
bmrusila accept the loss of something that was never yours and carry on with your life, r if you cannot accept the loss of than dont spoil the future of Serbs.
I actually think what the EU just offered is all Serbia really needs, Free Trade and abolishing visa’s. That way Serbia can take advantage of their traditional role between East and West. Already, France is using Serbia as a trading partner in order to take advantage of our Free Trade with Russia. Joining the EU fully would eliminate that highly lucrative role we’ve always played. Give the EU some time to digest their recent acquisitions in a healthy manner and get Russia more fully involved. A strong Russia in the EU would mean a healthy and well balanced EU where more voices will be heard. Serbia can encourage that.
I personally see no reason to rush blindly into the EU. I do strongly believe more caution in our approach is a good thing. We must make sure our relationship is clear from the outset.
Personally, I think Serbs need to remain united. However, the recent election seems to indicate to me a backlash against European integration, so maybe a go slow approach is more healthy for Serbia’s emerging democracy. Tadic is barely hanging on, and that does not give him a strong mandate to make such decisions.
If Serbia is smart, they can get all of the advantages of joining the EU, without giving up her independence. Keep in mind the Yugoslav passport was one of the most desired back in the day, you could travel anywhere in the world with it. Do not let the skeptics persuade you that it’s a choice between the EU or Russia only when we can be good friends and strong allies with both. The EU most certainly will wait, its not like we’re moving out of Europe any time soon.
I agree that we should not be rude about it though. The current situation just makes all the Serbian politicians look foolish.
Kosova's link to Serbia is only on a thin paper, and this last link is about to be broken soon. In all other practicality and reality, Kosova IS NOT part of Serbia.
Many of you will continue to say the same thing even after Independence is proclaimed and recognized by the majority of countries in EU and in the World, however by that time it will sound extremely ridiculous. Furthermore the thrill will be gone and I guess will be not point of writing in this forum anymore.
So, pestering is the solution you are putting forward.
Nice.
It does show ingenuity, commitment and open-minded approach.
See, you are a bit too late for that I am afraid.
If only Serbian team had you in their group during the numerous meetings they had in regards to Kosova. Where were you only a year ago?
What a waste of a great idea. By the way, if you want I can try to find it and forward you the email of the Kosova government.
You never know if you send them 1000 emails a day they might give up the fight for Independence.
P.S. Did you get this idea from the “you’ve got Mail” movie (just curious).
Kate, it depends from which angle you look at it.
I am certanin that you know what I mean. I hope you are stil belieing that Kosova is still part of Serbia and I would like to remain for you like that for as long as you wish. I hope to speak to you in 2-3 years time and discuss this issue then Kate.
Princip You are confusing the national interest with the will of the people. Just because a million people marched against the war in Iraq doesnt mean it was against the national interest.
In fact one could easily make the Serbian position argument - that the UK's (Serbia's) interest is to be on the America's (Russia's) side because the US (Russia) is an important strategic ally. One might think that British companies gain economic benefit by the immoral activity of their government. The pro Russian lobby say that here - albeit with far less evidence to prove their point.
I agree with you that compulsory ID cards should be taken off the agenda. I also think that mandatory ID cards, reminiscent of communist times should be outlawed in Serbia. Yes in Serbia remember we have mandatory ID cards and police can stop and search whenever the hell they want. Those ID cards even contain our damn fingerprints!!! I hope you complain about this and dont think it is normal or something. Yeah there is no question that we have MUCH less civil rights in Serbia.
I dont believe that the EU is a bed of roses. I have lived in the EU, I know what its like. However, the quality of life in EU states (excluding recent entries) is much higher. Institutions work better than in Serbia (not much better but better nevertheless - I have worked in Serbian state institutions).
Membership of the EU is an improvement for Serbia. Whats more there is no alternative and EU membership is inevitable.
Fine if the EU falls to pieces before then I'm not going to cry about it. We'll have some similar European organisation to replace it anyway with less power.
That is very difficult when surrounded by EU states, unless you have a free trade agreement with them (like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland), but at the rate Kostunica is going, even this will be impossible.
This arrogant nationalism will perhaps maintain the principles of pride amongst older, conservative Serbs as well as impressionable teenagers, but the educated class will go elsewhere where they can make full use of their capabilities and the country will get a taste of this nationalistic-induced isolation that Albania had years before, except maybe keeping trade open with countries that would hardly benefit Serbia.
I have a message for BMRUSILA and other Serbs who are against the EU: You should be thankful that the EU is opening its doors to Serbia. If Serbia does not join the EU what options does the country have?
BMRUSILA, mabye you would like Serbia to join the CIS? The reality is that Serbia has no other option but to join the EU. Otherwise, Serbia will remain isolated and would be like the Russian enclave Kaliningrad surrounded by the EU. You ask why? Because Croatia, Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro,Bosnia and Kosovo will all join the EU in the future. And Serbia will join Russia and the CIS right?
BMRUSILA, the EU is not obligated to admit Serbia into the club. The citizens of Serbia should thank the EU for making efforts to help Serbia to become an EU member state.
Of course that they will discuss Kosova issue. Why are they meeting after all?
They have just send this message to further deceive Serbs.
Oh, what happened to the resolution for Kosova adopted by the parliament not long ago? Have you forgotten about it so quickly? Or Maybe that was one of the ways to deceive the public as well?
Serbs, wake up, don’t let them fool again. Let aside Milosevic style politics and dirty trick and focus on the EU integration for sake of you children.
bmrusila accept the loss of something that was never yours and carry on with your life, r if you cannot accept the loss of than dont spoil the future of Serbs.
Kostunica is harming Serbia with his recent behaviour, there is nothing more to add. With him as head of government, he will isolate Serbia from the countries that recognize Kosovo, leaving Serbia surrounded by EU states while probably not even having a tree trade agreement with them, meaning they will have to trade with the third, fourth and fith world countries around the world. It will not work!
Just today, a personal example of the impact this had (I work in Warsaw), we had a situation thanks to Kostunica, we organized an operational outages (in power generation) business platform in Prague, and already we have received cancellations, thus financial losses (thousands of Euros) from EPS (Elektroprivreda Serbija) and Kostolac power plant, while they will not have the opportunity to come into contact with the latest European outage strategies and technologies, not to mention networking opportunities with major European utilities. This is one little example.
Kosovo is not worth this, I am sure the Serbian economy will suffer heavily from this, and we are talking many people. Forget Kosovo and stop being so arrogant Kostunica, you will only eventually lose popularity in Serbia, because the people will be sick to death of isolation thanks to you.
Kosova's link to Serbia is only on a thin paper, and this last link is about to be broken soon. In all other practicality and reality, Kosova IS NOT part of Serbia.
Many of you will continue to say the same thing even after Independence is proclaimed and recognized by the majority of countries in EU and in the World, however by that time it will sound extremely ridiculous. Furthermore the thrill will be gone and I guess will be not point of writing in this forum anymore.
Kate, it depends from which angle you look at it.
I am certanin that you know what I mean. I hope you are stil belieing that Kosova is still part of Serbia and I would like to remain for you like that for as long as you wish. I hope to speak to you in 2-3 years time and discuss this issue then Kate.
bmrusila, is it really true you are not aware that kostunica, the legalist, was, or was attempting to, break the law? he was trying to dodge scheduling a REGULAR session! That my dear is attempted coup. make no mistake about it. he was trying to circumvent this country's laws for his personal benefit. personal. not national, despite of what he says. serbia needs to be ruled by law. this kind of thing is unacceptable, forget political preferences. anyone who loves serbia will not support those who are turning it into a lawless mess.
as for those who are wondering why we serbs debate these issues and have different opinions. that's called mature democracy. that is normal in normal societies. we do not get orders from tribal leaders and then follow them or get shot and thrown into a lake or something. serbia is a democracy and there are different views and we express them freely.
'I don’t know can anyone believe that Kostunica would obstruct anyone’s work if he wasn’t thinking that it was important to meet and discuss'
Let me explain, we currently live in a party state. A state where the needs of the party are put above the needs of the individual or the country. Other countries of course have strong political parties but they tend to pay attention to the national interest, not here. Our case is / was supposedly a progression on having a one party state but it is a sign of a society badly struggling with democracy. Leaders such as Kostunica know no other system, they were born into it so it is hardly surprising they are behaving in a similar way - even if they are not communist.
Now I might have agreed with you on Koustnica in 2000 when we thought he was principled. But after years of watching this guy we know exactly who he is. He is concerned with his own party above all, he uses blackmail to get his own way, when he does not get his own way he sulks like a child and makes threats. He does nothing for fun. I dont think inhuman people like him even have fun (another clue as to why he should not be leader, that is just creepy).
What he does is move the goalposts for each argument to suit his opinion. There is no principle in that. There was nothing more disgusting and unprincipled that his and his party's conduct during the election and stabbing in the back of Tomislav Nikolic.
If you cant see that then you are one of those who sees only what he wishes to see.
'The war in ex Yugoslavia broke out because certain republics felt inferior '
The real reason the republics fell out was economic (it was about money of course). Slovenia didnt want to pay most into the federal budget and on top of that have the least political influence etc.
On top of that the local power elites / bueracracies wanted to extend their power. They could not do that with a single centralised bureacracy in Belgrade. The ending of Yugoslavia did not come about from the bottom up. It was artificially generated from the top down. Of course that is not to say there were not problems, there were many but Yugoslavia fell because of political leaders not because of the people.
This feeling of inferiority was a story spun over and over again through various national medias (particularly in Croatia), to encourage support for independence. History was re-written, the cult of victimhood because well established and accepted.
Nobody spoke about the benefits of Yugoslavia, it was all about how THEY stole from US, humiliated us and so on.
Of course who THEY were varied from republic to republic but it was never US.
If the EU does fail, it will again be about money, not about complexes of one kind or another. We must remember just because some of us might have felt superior or inferior doesnt mean that this was the reason the country broke up.
Tom O'Donoghue: Thank you very much for the email you provided. We will be writing to the minister to advocate independence.
Princip, bmrusila & company:
I would be tempted to compare Kostunica to Don Quichote, but I realized that that would not be fair on Don Quichote. While Kostunica's plans and rhetoric vis-a-vis Kosova as well as his 'fight against the world' resemble very much a fight against windmills, differently from Don Quichote, who genuinely believed in his mission, Kostunica's motivation is a purely cynical strategy for hanging on to power which might play well with some frustrated Serbs such yourselves, but as far as the rest of the world goes is making it clear as crystal that Kostunica is but a old style, self-serving 'Nationalist' and crypto-Democrat who would probably sell his mother to get rid of Tadic and hang on to power.
So, pestering is the solution you are putting forward.
Nice.
It does show ingenuity, commitment and open-minded approach.
See, you are a bit too late for that I am afraid.
If only Serbian team had you in their group during the numerous meetings they had in regards to Kosova. Where were you only a year ago?
What a waste of a great idea. By the way, if you want I can try to find it and forward you the email of the Kosova government.
You never know if you send them 1000 emails a day they might give up the fight for Independence.
P.S. Did you get this idea from the “you’ve got Mail” movie (just curious).
That is very difficult when surrounded by EU states, unless you have a free trade agreement with them (like Switzerland, Norway and Iceland), but at the rate Kostunica is going, even this will be impossible.
This arrogant nationalism will perhaps maintain the principles of pride amongst older, conservative Serbs as well as impressionable teenagers, but the educated class will go elsewhere where they can make full use of their capabilities and the country will get a taste of this nationalistic-induced isolation that Albania had years before, except maybe keeping trade open with countries that would hardly benefit Serbia.
Princip You are confusing the national interest with the will of the people. Just because a million people marched against the war in Iraq doesnt mean it was against the national interest.
In fact one could easily make the Serbian position argument - that the UK's (Serbia's) interest is to be on the America's (Russia's) side because the US (Russia) is an important strategic ally. One might think that British companies gain economic benefit by the immoral activity of their government. The pro Russian lobby say that here - albeit with far less evidence to prove their point.
I agree with you that compulsory ID cards should be taken off the agenda. I also think that mandatory ID cards, reminiscent of communist times should be outlawed in Serbia. Yes in Serbia remember we have mandatory ID cards and police can stop and search whenever the hell they want. Those ID cards even contain our damn fingerprints!!! I hope you complain about this and dont think it is normal or something. Yeah there is no question that we have MUCH less civil rights in Serbia.
I dont believe that the EU is a bed of roses. I have lived in the EU, I know what its like. However, the quality of life in EU states (excluding recent entries) is much higher. Institutions work better than in Serbia (not much better but better nevertheless - I have worked in Serbian state institutions).
Membership of the EU is an improvement for Serbia. Whats more there is no alternative and EU membership is inevitable.
Fine if the EU falls to pieces before then I'm not going to cry about it. We'll have some similar European organisation to replace it anyway with less power.
“State institutions have to do their own jobs and no-one is allowed to obstruct their work because of party interests,” the president said.
-Are you so sure Mr President that Mr Kostunica’s intention is to obstruct someone’s work just like that, just for fun? Are you so sure that he did it just for his own party interests? Very hypocritical statement coming from you, Mr Tadic. I don’t know can anyone believe that Kostunica would obstruct anyone’s work if he wasn’t thinking that it was important to meet and discuss. Seems democrats are afraid of discussion. Why they don’t come into public and explain what the deal offered by the EU includes, what does that deal mean in general, how important is for our citizens.
Besides, why not ask people in referendum about it after they were explained in detail about the nature of that political deal.
With respect, the headline on the article "Government rift sinks EU deal" is misleading.
The EU "deal" has not been sunk. Use of the verb "to sink" suggests that the offer on the table is lost. That is incorrect.
Commissioner Rehn said as much stating that the agreement could be signed later. Therefore if it will be signed later it is merely delayed not "sunk" and gone forever.
"Commenting on the remarks of EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn, Ristivojević said that it was very important to bear in mind the fact that Rehn unequivocally advocated unilateral independence for Kosovo, and that he was calling for the illegal dispatch of an EU mission to implement the rejected Martti Ahtisaari plan. "
- et tu EU....
Just like the visiting Foreign Minister from Finland all smiles with Tadic in Belgrade one day and the next proposing the illegal dismemberment of the State he just visited and shook hands with withs President !
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=05&nav_id=47495 http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id81933.html
Why you are so aggressive, why do you write my name so aggressively? Let me tell you briefly- I don’t care if Albania, Macedonia, and Croatia et al wish to join the EU but I wish Serbia to stay away from that Union. I hope when Serbia (if ever invited) is about to enter another “Yugoslavia”, will organise referendum and the wish of the majority will decide YES or NO. All I want is referendum. I am just an individual who oppose this idea because I have lived in one Yugoslavia and honestly I would not like to live in another one. The war in ex Yugoslavia broke out because certain republics felt inferior and for not being enough independent. After spilling so much blood all ex YU republics got what they wanted and therefore I don’t understand why to rush in some another Union of exactly the same type (maybe even worse). Serbia does not need this after paying so dearly by its blood in that war. I don’t believe in these sorts of unions any longer, not in Europe any way. While in Finland for a while, I learnt that Europe in general, especially Scandinavian countries always were taking ex Yugoslavia as an example of possible multicultural co-existence. Some European countries tried to solve some of their minority issues based on example of Yugoslavia. That was really nice to learn. But, the European admiration for ex Yugoslavia did not last for long when the war broke out and when all these nations suddenly decided that they cannot live with each other any more. Did you get my point? I just don’t believe in EU survival. However, what ever happens to the EU, I still wish Serbia to stay out of the EU. The bad treatment of Serbia by the EU is another story and additional negative feeling that I store for that bureaucratic institution.
"European Parliament Rapporteur for Serbia Jelko Kacin also expressed his disappointment, stating that Serbia was on the verge of self-isolation."
I'm taking this as a treath from EU. Norway and Switzerland did not join EU, but they did not self-isolete themselves. Why do you treath Serbia?
Kaliningrad is not a good example. The Kaliningrad oblast currently has a booming economy and full employment. In fact, their main proplem is finding people to work.
Olf: You seem to be unaware that Kosovo is a legally recognised province of Serbia. That's a fact, no matter how many times you or anyone else denies it.
Even those nations who seek to recognise an illegal declaration of independence know and say frequently that it's currently part of Serbia.
"Other countries of course have strong political parties but they tend to pay attention to the national interest, not here. "
- look into the states of the EU that you would want to be party to. I think you will find the grass is sadly no greener.
For instance in the UK 1 million went on a march against the impending illegal war against Iraq - did Bliar listen, did he act in the national interest - NO. As a result of this illegal war the UK is now introducing more an more draconian measures removing civil liberties, ID cards, surveliance camera's, DNA databases, we are being watched over like never before all in the pretence that it is in our interest.
All the while the actions of of our so-called interest create greater insecurity with what is termed "home grown terrorists" who of course reacted to the illegal war in their own demented minds with more violence, murder or attempts at murder of other innocent citizens going about on a Bus,underground, Airport or just clubbing the night away!
I am sure the likes of Kate may reflect similar sentiment with regards the UK. Tom Donaghue from Ireland is fairly likely to comment about the overarching EU political elites (many unelected) who dictate our lives all the more. Dictate in many ways similar to what you have alluded to for the dying days of Yugoslavia but opposite in that then it was representing local elites for regional interest - an extra port and jobs where none was required because one existed 50 km away in another republic - or did some have an agenda even then! However, across the EU it is all the worse in that it seems like these "elites" and multinationals have all our lives stiched up and controlled in their own interest of the few at the cost of all - its like they have colluded and rather then fight against each other for local dominance they conmine to squeese the greatest amount of self profit.
Look into inequalities and the Lorenz curve if you have an interest in economic devleopment and signs of impending inequality or control of capital. It as if history is reverting to the early days of capitalism that marx's warned of. I am not a marxist - far from it but I sense that things in the west will come to a head quite rapidly in the near future.
Bganon, I am not having a go but I am just saying don't be so naive to believe that life in the EU is all singing and dancing while Serbia has nothing to offer. Make that differnce in Serbia maybe not for yourself immediatly but in time since nothing can happen overnight. The American dream put across in hollywoods films is a figment of reality for a few lucky ones so that they there are examples that continue to subjegate the masses and place the onus on the individuals failure - "you clearly don'have what it takes!". Sadly the motto that works best is not one based on meritocracy and equality of life chances but one that applied to the "communist" (not a real communism but a facade communist) experiment of Eastern Europe - its not what you know but who you know!
I do believe to some extend that Kostunica is the most principled politician in our country. Or better, to say that he is the only one that I can trust the most. Somehow, maybe weirdly, I do not believe that all he does, he do only for his own benefit. I would never categorized Kostunica as communist, far from that. However, you are right that all we need now is unity, and I said many times before that all political parties in Serbia should closely work together and work on establishing good cooperation between each other. What I hate the most is the fact that some parties put personal interests before national. I was very disappointed by Niklic’s rejection to meet Tadic. That is not how it is supposed to work, and you are right when claiming that our parties put personal interests before national. Well, I don’t know am I crazy but in my eyes only Kostunica seems to put national interests before personal. In addition, when Voja stabbed Nikolic in the back I admit it was not fair. But I like to believe that he has done that because he did preferred to stay with democrats after all as he was aware that Serbia has better chance in international circles with democratic block than with radicals. In my opinion he personally would benefit more with radicals than with democrats. At least this is how I see it. What I want is to see them all together working on prosperity of the country regardless of what political parties they all belong. And all of them I expect to have unified stand of Kosovo.
Bganon, I am fully aware that the economy and the system in general preceded the collapse of ex YU. I just wanted to briefly explain how suddenly people of different nations decided not to leave next to each other without going to much in details. When I said that some republics of ex Yu felt inferior I just repeated the claims of those republics. The truth is that they always claimed of being oppressed by Belgrade and Serbs. And yes, of course if EU ever collapses it is going to be because of the economy, naturally and it may lead to the war that would start with small sporadic clashes between natives and immigrants (all over the Europe) before it develops in real war.
I'm keeping out of all these silly arguments. If Serbia is not united there is no hope for Kosovo.
Here is something that can be done. Yesterday in the Irish Parliament our Minister for Foreign Affairs said the following in relation to recognition of a Kosovo UDI:
" The Government has not yet taken a decision on the question of national recognition of Kosovo independence, and I believe that it would be not be helpful for me to speculate on this matter in advance of any declaration of independence. As indicated, strenuous efforts will be made to agree a common EU approach in response to any such declaration."
So the Irish government is playing it by ear. The Minister's name is Dermot Ahern and his email address is: minister@dfa.ie
I would suggest that all who read this and oppose Kosovo independence should email the minister with a reasoned appeal not to recognise a UDI.
People who live in other countries might also provide the email addresses of relevant ministers and we can start an email campaign. So who's next?
I actually think what the EU just offered is all Serbia really needs, Free Trade and abolishing visa’s. That way Serbia can take advantage of their traditional role between East and West. Already, France is using Serbia as a trading partner in order to take advantage of our Free Trade with Russia. Joining the EU fully would eliminate that highly lucrative role we’ve always played. Give the EU some time to digest their recent acquisitions in a healthy manner and get Russia more fully involved. A strong Russia in the EU would mean a healthy and well balanced EU where more voices will be heard. Serbia can encourage that.
I personally see no reason to rush blindly into the EU. I do strongly believe more caution in our approach is a good thing. We must make sure our relationship is clear from the outset.
Personally, I think Serbs need to remain united. However, the recent election seems to indicate to me a backlash against European integration, so maybe a go slow approach is more healthy for Serbia’s emerging democracy. Tadic is barely hanging on, and that does not give him a strong mandate to make such decisions.
If Serbia is smart, they can get all of the advantages of joining the EU, without giving up her independence. Keep in mind the Yugoslav passport was one of the most desired back in the day, you could travel anywhere in the world with it. Do not let the skeptics persuade you that it’s a choice between the EU or Russia only when we can be good friends and strong allies with both. The EU most certainly will wait, its not like we’re moving out of Europe any time soon.
I agree that we should not be rude about it though. The current situation just makes all the Serbian politicians look foolish.
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