Russia: Kosovo independence would set dangerous precedent

This is completely untrue, as per UN international charter once a country declares independence and is accepted by more then 150 countries around the world "done, as only russia and serbia oppose it" Kosovo will get an invitation from the UN, yes russia will oppose but after three votes the majority wins.

bla bla bla mr ambassador

i am surprised that the russians as they claim to be so close to international law don't even know the law.

Why does it concern to Russia what organisation we might join or not? FIFA yesterday said the state of Kosova is welcome to join. When you have US, UK, Germany, France, and Italy you WILL get what ever you wish, Russia is NOTHING compare to them. And our Independence will be a slap in the face to Kremlin

Mr Chizhov, they know it well what that independence would mean but the EU or better say USA has its own agenda in Kosovo that must be implemented. The EU could not careless if Albanians cannot join all these organizations and institutions of vital importance for one country. Albanian want to be called independent and the EU will create them false independence with actually no status solved while 1244 still in force. They will be independent only on the paper signed and recognised by some of the countries. And that’s it. The truth is that they would gain much more by accepting some of the proposals offered by Belgrade. It was up to them to accept the at least the base and by further negotiations with Serbian officials I am sure they could find god compromise. However, backed by the USA to ignore the proposals they rejected and it is their problem now if they accept independence only on the paper. And today White House is re-examining its stand on Kosovo status and seems that something happens in Slovenia too. Those who can command basic Serbian language will understand well these articles

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=07&nav_category=640&nav_id=283900

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=07&nav_category=640&nav_id=283901

Russian Ambassador is talking out of anger, since Russia knows that cannot stop the Independence. I sugest to ambassador to let us worry about all the things that he has mentioned.Taiwan is not a UN member but doing just fine, but we going to do much better becasue we will be recognized officially by most developed countries in the world. So we have the advantege that Taiwan does not.I wonder if Russia is going to shut down its Liaison Office in Prishtina after CDI ocurres, which in couple weeks, and if they don't that measn they accept the Independence of Kosova.

So if it is pointless why are you still barking about it?
Don’t you have any important things to do then and not worry about the pointless things?
You see, we Kosovo Albanians are simple people and a pointless independence is ok with us.
We might find some point of our own in it.

right so, Russia.

but they will need some more time to realize it...

let them just declare their toy-"independence" and then let them feel what it means to be on the wrong side of the law...

broad autonomy is what they will have some day. and perhaps they will even be glad to get it under international guarantees then...

let´s see...

@ Nehat Krasniqi - I am not sure where you got your information. Chapter 2, Article, Paragraph 2 of the UN Charter makes it very clear that membership requires Security Council authorisation:

"The admission of any such state to membership in the United Nations will be effected by a decision of the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council."

You will not get real independence. Instead, you are being offered a fake 'independence' to calm you down and keep you quiet for the meantime. It will mean nothing in the end. You will not be counted amongst the 192 real states in this world, a list that includes Serbia.

This is completely untrue:

" This is completely untrue, as per UN international charter once a country declares independence and is accepted by more then 150 countries around the world "done, as only russia and serbia oppose it" "

According to the United Nations Charter, Chapter 2, Article 4:[1]

Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations.
The admission of any such state to membership in the United Nations will be effected by a decision of the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

So Russia can veto it in the UNSC. And many more countries than just Serbia and Russia oppose the independence of Kosovo.

"A bit contradictory this new. It tells us that Russia is on principle poised against independence. Then Mr Chizhov tries to convince us on how meaningless a prominent declaration of independence would be"

Well the obvious conclusion is that Russia is against Kosovo declaring an independence that is effectively pointless.

To illi -

Please help me and others belonging to the "Serb camp" how KosovO is independent?

*you cannot govern yourselves without an outside support agency.
*your "leaders" are all for the EU coming in to help with "control" of the "current situation".

It seems to be that the situation at hand is due to YOUR doing & no one elses. If you & the other inhabitants of KosovO feel that the only way for independence is to have the EU come in, you're highly mistaken. That's a given that you cannot effectively govern yourselves.

Thachi, Ceku & all the other figure heads are just that - FIGURE HEADS.

Are you aware that the president of Serbia need to ask permision to enter Kosovo?
Does this tell you guys something?
(ilir,

-I don’t know does president needs permission or any other Serbian politician, but what I know I that they occasionally visit Kosovo freely, make speeches in meetings and open government offices. From my point of view, enough for the time being, and I am sure there will be more to be seen and heard from Belgrade.

A bit contradictory this new. It tells us that Russia is on principle poised against independence. Then Mr Chizhov tries to convince us on how meaningless a prominent declaration of independence would be but then the link is made to a previous word of caution directed to EU not to coordinate a declaration of independence with the Albanians. Now Russia is either not bothered by a declaration of independence or is slightly alarmed by her international standing. It is the same Russia who is constantly highlighting the significance of such event and then simultaneously telling us Albanians how immaterial our aspirations are. So if after the firm commitment of EU to an independent Kosova, Russia’s statement seems at least incoherent as she known’s too well that all these arguments fall down like a house of cards with a common EU policy on Kosova.

Well the obvious conclusion is that Russia is against Kosovo declaring an independence that is effectively pointless.
(PJD, 7 February 2008 14:20)
Well the sensible conclusion would be that a declaration of independence won’t be pointless at all. That’s why Russia and most of the Serbian camp are rattled.
An imminent declaration of independence makes perfect sense and our expressed desire and aspiration to be supervised by EU and ultimately joining the organisation fits perfectly with the clear endorsement of Kosova’s independence by the EU. That would mean a foreign policy in line with the common foreign European policy and all the other things that go with it. We are not interested in a Russian endorsement although even that will come with time. Things are not predestined to remain unchanged and every evolutionary analysis points out to a progressive change in Russia and in Serbia. That contrasts highly with the factual reality in Kosova where an absolute majority of population won’t accept anything less than independence. That is unlike to change and any attempt to ignore this fact will lead yet again to imaginary conclusions.

You will not get real independence. Instead, you are being offered a fake 'independence' to calm you down and keep you quiet for the meantime. It will mean nothing in the end. You will not be counted amongst the 192 real states in this world, a list that includes Serbia.
(Jim, 7 February 2008 16:26)

Jim,

Ok, Serbia is one of the 192 real states in UN.
That one is true.
And, let’s assume that Kosova will not be blessed with that title.
So (with the second assumption in mind) both of your assessments are true.

One question:
The Serbia that is in UN (one of the 192 countries), will it contain Kosovo.
No.
Mission accomplished.
You see Jim it is the angle of view that makes things relative.
If it makes you to call it fake independence, please do so.
From the angle I am looking at, it is independence.
We have waited 100 years for this “fake” independence.
It is arriving.
You never know, we might just be lucky and in 100 years be accepted as the 193 state. Waiting as a state is much easier than waiting occupied.
One more note.
Look at the 1244. There seem to be loopholes that are in relation to the interpretation of it.
We might find a loophole in the UN charter as well.

Many people on this website just don't "get it". Russia is opposing Kosovo independence as payback against the west for "winning" the Cold War and pushing NATO to the borders of Russia. Both Russia and China finally figured out that they can successfully fight an economic and diplomatic war against the west. I see the EU as being trapped by their twisted logic and hitting the panic button. Next week, they are going to start begging the Russians to abandon Serbia. The US has effectively thrown the EU under the Kosovo bus and only mutters "ahtassari" when asked about Kosovo which they know is a non-starter. The US is trying to force the EU to negotiate with the Serbs because the US can never admit that they were wrong in their Balkan policy and negotiate with Serbia directly. Don't forget history: The US fought a stupid war in Vietnam for eight years before finally running away. And it took them another 10 years to get over it. The K-albos are also starting to get nervous about their "supporters". I noticed that some of their posters are writing "CDI" instead of "UDI". The basic truth is if they declare independence and get little to no recognition, they lost big time. The media keeps repeating "independence is inevitable". The truth is "crisis is inevitable" and the west is starting to wonder if they can afford it at this time.

I am sure that Kosova will not set a precedent in International law since there are many mechanisms to stop this. Russia has forgotten about the precedent that Serbia has set not long ago by committing the worst known crimes after the WWII.

"It would not gain anything more than it could have if Priština accepted Serbia's proposals of 'essential autonomy',"

- I agree, but why stay with Serbia if we can go our own way. This is not just about joining some institutions, there is something called freedom.

ach pejoni, fifa :) that ought to make a difference in your gdp :)
not that kosovo will ever join fifa, mind you :)
anyway i told you a few days ago, we paid good money for this blocking service.

Kosovo has always been Serbia and should remain so at any cost.
A Spaniard

Russia has become a joke to the international eyes as it tries to pick pathetic arguments against a movement. You just can't stop Kosova's movement.

The world is ready for the Russian sanctions or anything that Russia has to offer. Decades of the Cold War taught us that victories we shall prevail.

America #1 !!!!!!

Given the illusions of grandeur the Russians still harbour it is understandable that they would try to do anything in order for the West to take them seriously. Unfortunately they have picked the wrong fight because when Kosova goes ahead and declares independence with the support of the West - regardless of Russian opposition - it will make Russia look ridiculous. Going out on a limb for the sake of Serbia might have seemed to the Russians leadership like a good way of reclaiming their superpower status in the eyes of the West, but it will end up showing even more clearly how much they really count in today's world, i.e. not very much. If
you are not a superpower, you will simply not be seen as such whatever your position on Kosova.
As for Kosova not getting UN membership, well things have a habit of changing over time so no one knows what will happen in 10 or 20 years. But we know what will not happen: Kosova will never be Serb again. And I guess EU membership is as good a substitute as they come for the UN.

Kosovo i Metohija's independence is best for Republika Srpska and for Serbs living here.
Milan, Banja Luka.

bmrusilla says:

"They will be independent only on the paper signed and recognised by some of the countries. And that’s it."

This will be fine thanks.. :)
Kosovo is independent for 9 years now.
Are you aware that the president of Serbia need to ask permision to enter Kosovo?
Does this tell you guys something?

Blero,

"One question:
The Serbia that is in UN (one of the 192 countries), will it contain Kosovo.
No.
Mission accomplished. "

- actually 1244 still stands thus UN legality remains that Kosovo & Metohija remain. You clearly don't get it that your illegal declaration of secession remains illegal since 1244 will never be rescinded. Illegal recognition of dependence is as good as it gets and there won't be any money being wasted by the EU so economic development is likely to stall all the more as the mafiocracy get a bigger strangle hold ! No Western company is likely to invest in the amounts that would be required while dubious and contentious property rights are still to be resolved.

Go call your illegal declarations but realise that the legal limbo (status quo) remains but with greater difficulty and this will split the province since the Serbian population will just ignore it - its illegal. What can teh EU or NATO do when tehy are ignored - shoot? Hardly likly to bring stability or a resolved status but then you guys believe all your told by the mafiocracy with such ideas as "Ilyrians", "Dardania" or "polar bears in Sar planina" - keep believing have your false celebration we will see where it gets you since illegal remains illegal - end of the day you still will not have anything close to independence - in some ways Kurti was absolutely right guess!

The so-called “dangerous precedent” is just another excuse for Russia annexing the military-held territories of Georgia’s South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the Moldova’s Transnistria.

Let me just point out the irony of Albanians talking about UN charter allowing admission of Kosovo to UN if enough countries recognise it, while Kosovo declaring independence is a DIRECT violation of that very charter.

So are Albanians gonna use UN charter when it suits them?

Second of all, I believe many underestimate the rest of the world. Where are Albanians gonna find countries to make up over 150 to reocgnise them when half of those have the same separatists problems.
Any country which wishes to uphold the international law will not recognize Kosovo.

Ahmet said, "Taiwan is not a UN member but doing just fine, but we going to do much better becasue we will be recognized officially by most developed countries in the world. So we have the advantege that Taiwan does not."

Trust me, you won't do better than Taiwan. Wait and see who American businesses have more trade with an independent Kosovo or the autonomus Chinese province of Taiwan.

Taiwan has the advantage, not Kosovo. Taiwan is not the subject of a territorial dispute, but Kosovo is. Taiwan is the example that Kosovo should have followed.

Taiwan is part of China on paper only, but that's enough to keep China happy and Taiwan can develop its economy and culture without interference from Beijing.

Belgrade offered you the same deal, but you insisted on full independence just to be spiteful.

You fundamentally don't understand the West. We have free markets and private enterprise. Recognition from our governments doesn't mean anything. We aren't communists, you have to win-over our businessmen not our politicians if you want any economic prosperity. Recognition from the U.S. government doesn't guarantee a single dollar of American investment in Kosovo. You'll have to convince individual American businessmen that Kosovo is a good place to invest.

The fact of the matter is that our businessmen don't invest their money in regions that are the subject of territorial disputes. Why do you think Taiwan isn't threatening a war to win independence from China? The people in Taiwan are smart enough to realize that doing so would send their country back to the stone age.

All Serbia has to do is talk tough and rattle the sabre a little bit now and then and Kosovo won't have any foreign investment.

(GSP, 7 February 2008 23:32)

No GSP,

That means that we have a neighbour in the north that is trigger happy.
That means that we don’t have the military power to match the one that Serbia possesses.
This is understandable since Serbia was a state and Kosova was occupied.
We can and we will govern ourselves, do not worry about that.
You accuse us for needing external assistance to protect us from any potential intervention by Serbia, however you gladly forget the fact the fact that you rely to the same level (if not more) on you ally Russia.

well i don't know about you guys and gals, but putin's russia "barking" scares me a bit. of course that is the intent. and maybe i spent too many years living in the cold war. it may seem funny or even romantic these days, but once upon a time we had trouble sleeping wondering if we would actually wake up the next day. nuclear war would have been more than just another ecological blip.

i am born and raised in the usa, and thus am more than a little crtical of my own govt. and its questionable policies. but this russia thing is so obviously based on anti-democratic bullying. it is such an outrage, and makes the west look positively enlightened in comparison. and some of the posters here actuall admire this russia?

anyway, kosovo will be indeendent, and don't you all lose sleep worrying about exactly HOW independent. as for the UN, it has lost much of its luster for me over the years, but sadly it's the only game in town. but for th time being, the eu and world bank, etc will do for the time being. and INDEpendence!!! free at last, free at last.

How dare you say its pointless. Do you know what Serbia did to Albanians, Bosnians and Croations?. Who are you to tell us that we should still be under control by Serbs.

This is why a Confederate will never happen; Serbs dont want to be equal.

Everything is documented and everyone knows what happend in 1999

You clearly don't get it that your illegal declaration of secession remains illegal since 1244 will never be rescinded. Illegal recognition of dependence is as good as it gets and there won't be any money being wasted by the EU so economic development is likely to stall all the more as the mafiocracy get a bigger strangle hold ! No Western company is likely to invest in the amounts that would be required while dubious and contentious property rights are still to be resolved.

(Princip, UK, 7 February 2008 20:50)


I am really impressed with how much you know about Kosova and its future.
Well, when Kosova declares its “illegal” independence and it is recognised by the countries that matter to Kosova you can write the number 1244 as many times you like.
What impresses me is the fact that Serbian government is so pro UN legislations.
Where was the respect for the UN (and humanity) in the 90s?
It is not take what you want and ignore what you don’t like.
And please, stop giving us history lectures.
I can think of over 6 Billion people more qualified that you on that matter.

For GSP.

In case you are not aware Kosovo is independent from Serbia for 9 years now.
Kosovo have its own parliament and government which are elected in free and democratic way by the people of Kosovo.
The minorities have all their rights respected and the government is trying hard to make them incorporate to the life in Kosovo.
The “independency in paper” will enable the government to attract the foreign investment and lift the standards of living for all the Kosovo’s people including the minorities. Since not many investments are expected from the Russian or Rumanian and Cypriot’s it will not be “catastrophic” if they refuse to recognize Kosovo.
Belgrade has no say in Kosovo internal or external affairs and the president and prime minister off Serbia need permission to enter Kosovo.
The EU mission is temporary in case you don’t know.
Independency will be supervised to guarantee the minorities that they will not be mistreated. Since the Albanians have made it clear that they intend to do just that, I don’t see this mission staying there for long.
Of course you will always have people who will oppose the independency encourages from the radicals in Belgrade.
The typical example is the city of Mitrovica who the minority Serb’s refuse to pay their taxes and pay for their electricity and water. They rather live on benefits they get from the government of Kosovo.
No wonder they oppose independency ….. I rather have my children’s get educated and work hard for their living, rather than live in hand outs from the government.
What future they have? I fill sorry for them but they need to blame their politician in Belgrade not the Albanians.

Russia: Kosovo independence would set dangerous precedent

I saw Putin Today on BBC anouncing very angrily that Russia is going to build up her weaponry for a "new arms race". His words! I liked Putin when he came in power, later he showd some negative signs and even Russians in Toronto didn't like him. Few years later and he and his people have built an ugly form of nationalism(westerners use nationalism in a negative connotation, to Albanians nationalism=patriotism, but here i'm using the one with negative meaning). It is mixed with self victimization("Oh everyone picks on us Russians") when they are respected like anyone else in the West. I'm wondering if any Russian sees what's going on...What a change in so few years. One more proof that evil is much easier to inflict in people and could come from anywhere in a society. In my understanding, this was achieved by making feel people hurt, especially young people who have not experienced our past political system, of "losing" the cold war, that their honor was walked all over, that they were the greatest etc etc. Another quote of Putin from Today's speech "Russia is buildin gup her arms because of security threats to our country". I'm asking my self, but please tell me, who in their right mind would DARE attack Russia?
This is what happens when you make an ex-KGB the head of the biggest country in the world which had some social and economic problems. This is the mistake in thinking that KGB would have "changed". Foolish world. I was foolish as well, forgotten the past, knew KGB only from movies and thought it was "cool" to have a spy as president/priminister.WRONG!
We often don't talk to people who have hurt us in our personal lives, and why would we accept polititians, out of all people, to be "changed" suddenly? Memory of a goldfish, crowd mentality, better economic/social conditions, marketing and the general predisposition of the humble people to believe that almost everyone in the street or society is good and can be trusted.

Kosovo is curently the most paradoxical state in the world. In that state live albanian people that cutoff from Serbia and the name of the state has its origin in Serbian word for a bird.By faith they are not christian but still they are surrounded with orthodox monasteries and churches.They are not apprehensive of the curse this kind of legacy can bring. They have patrons in countries that are 10.000 miles away that know nothing about them despite their writers and poets were most recent published and translated in Belgrade. They gained a state that is and isn't independent, because it will be oversean as long as US military base Bondsteel by the town of Gnjilane exists. On the west they are well known for people and drug trafficing while the finest pages of them were writen by Serbian writers and ethnologists from Miljanov to Cvijic. I wouldn't like to be in position of members of this community. It is is fine and honourable to be a Serb in this moment. HISTORY IS A MARATHON THAT IS RUN BY CENTURIES.

Russian Ambassador is talking out of anger, since Russia knows that cannot stop the Independence. I sugest to ambassador to let us worry about all the things that he has mentioned.Taiwan is not a UN member but doing just fine, but we going to do much better becasue we will be recognized officially by most developed countries in the world. So we have the advantege that Taiwan does not.I wonder if Russia is going to shut down its Liaison Office in Prishtina after CDI ocurres, which in couple weeks, and if they don't that measn they accept the Independence of Kosova.

This is completely untrue, as per UN international charter once a country declares independence and is accepted by more then 150 countries around the world "done, as only russia and serbia oppose it" Kosovo will get an invitation from the UN, yes russia will oppose but after three votes the majority wins.

bla bla bla mr ambassador

i am surprised that the russians as they claim to be so close to international law don't even know the law.

Why does it concern to Russia what organisation we might join or not? FIFA yesterday said the state of Kosova is welcome to join. When you have US, UK, Germany, France, and Italy you WILL get what ever you wish, Russia is NOTHING compare to them. And our Independence will be a slap in the face to Kremlin

A bit contradictory this new. It tells us that Russia is on principle poised against independence. Then Mr Chizhov tries to convince us on how meaningless a prominent declaration of independence would be but then the link is made to a previous word of caution directed to EU not to coordinate a declaration of independence with the Albanians. Now Russia is either not bothered by a declaration of independence or is slightly alarmed by her international standing. It is the same Russia who is constantly highlighting the significance of such event and then simultaneously telling us Albanians how immaterial our aspirations are. So if after the firm commitment of EU to an independent Kosova, Russia’s statement seems at least incoherent as she known’s too well that all these arguments fall down like a house of cards with a common EU policy on Kosova.

I am sure that Kosova will not set a precedent in International law since there are many mechanisms to stop this. Russia has forgotten about the precedent that Serbia has set not long ago by committing the worst known crimes after the WWII.

So if it is pointless why are you still barking about it?
Don’t you have any important things to do then and not worry about the pointless things?
You see, we Kosovo Albanians are simple people and a pointless independence is ok with us.
We might find some point of our own in it.

bmrusilla says:

"They will be independent only on the paper signed and recognised by some of the countries. And that’s it."

This will be fine thanks.. :)
Kosovo is independent for 9 years now.
Are you aware that the president of Serbia need to ask permision to enter Kosovo?
Does this tell you guys something?

You will not get real independence. Instead, you are being offered a fake 'independence' to calm you down and keep you quiet for the meantime. It will mean nothing in the end. You will not be counted amongst the 192 real states in this world, a list that includes Serbia.
(Jim, 7 February 2008 16:26)

Jim,

Ok, Serbia is one of the 192 real states in UN.
That one is true.
And, let’s assume that Kosova will not be blessed with that title.
So (with the second assumption in mind) both of your assessments are true.

One question:
The Serbia that is in UN (one of the 192 countries), will it contain Kosovo.
No.
Mission accomplished.
You see Jim it is the angle of view that makes things relative.
If it makes you to call it fake independence, please do so.
From the angle I am looking at, it is independence.
We have waited 100 years for this “fake” independence.
It is arriving.
You never know, we might just be lucky and in 100 years be accepted as the 193 state. Waiting as a state is much easier than waiting occupied.
One more note.
Look at the 1244. There seem to be loopholes that are in relation to the interpretation of it.
We might find a loophole in the UN charter as well.

Mr Chizhov, they know it well what that independence would mean but the EU or better say USA has its own agenda in Kosovo that must be implemented. The EU could not careless if Albanians cannot join all these organizations and institutions of vital importance for one country. Albanian want to be called independent and the EU will create them false independence with actually no status solved while 1244 still in force. They will be independent only on the paper signed and recognised by some of the countries. And that’s it. The truth is that they would gain much more by accepting some of the proposals offered by Belgrade. It was up to them to accept the at least the base and by further negotiations with Serbian officials I am sure they could find god compromise. However, backed by the USA to ignore the proposals they rejected and it is their problem now if they accept independence only on the paper. And today White House is re-examining its stand on Kosovo status and seems that something happens in Slovenia too. Those who can command basic Serbian language will understand well these articles

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=07&nav_category=640&nav_id=283900

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=07&nav_category=640&nav_id=283901

"It would not gain anything more than it could have if Priština accepted Serbia's proposals of 'essential autonomy',"

- I agree, but why stay with Serbia if we can go our own way. This is not just about joining some institutions, there is something called freedom.

Well the obvious conclusion is that Russia is against Kosovo declaring an independence that is effectively pointless.
(PJD, 7 February 2008 14:20)
Well the sensible conclusion would be that a declaration of independence won’t be pointless at all. That’s why Russia and most of the Serbian camp are rattled.
An imminent declaration of independence makes perfect sense and our expressed desire and aspiration to be supervised by EU and ultimately joining the organisation fits perfectly with the clear endorsement of Kosova’s independence by the EU. That would mean a foreign policy in line with the common foreign European policy and all the other things that go with it. We are not interested in a Russian endorsement although even that will come with time. Things are not predestined to remain unchanged and every evolutionary analysis points out to a progressive change in Russia and in Serbia. That contrasts highly with the factual reality in Kosova where an absolute majority of population won’t accept anything less than independence. That is unlike to change and any attempt to ignore this fact will lead yet again to imaginary conclusions.

Russia has become a joke to the international eyes as it tries to pick pathetic arguments against a movement. You just can't stop Kosova's movement.

The world is ready for the Russian sanctions or anything that Russia has to offer. Decades of the Cold War taught us that victories we shall prevail.

America #1 !!!!!!

Given the illusions of grandeur the Russians still harbour it is understandable that they would try to do anything in order for the West to take them seriously. Unfortunately they have picked the wrong fight because when Kosova goes ahead and declares independence with the support of the West - regardless of Russian opposition - it will make Russia look ridiculous. Going out on a limb for the sake of Serbia might have seemed to the Russians leadership like a good way of reclaiming their superpower status in the eyes of the West, but it will end up showing even more clearly how much they really count in today's world, i.e. not very much. If
you are not a superpower, you will simply not be seen as such whatever your position on Kosova.
As for Kosova not getting UN membership, well things have a habit of changing over time so no one knows what will happen in 10 or 20 years. But we know what will not happen: Kosova will never be Serb again. And I guess EU membership is as good a substitute as they come for the UN.

The so-called “dangerous precedent” is just another excuse for Russia annexing the military-held territories of Georgia’s South Ossetia and Abkhazia and the Moldova’s Transnistria.

How dare you say its pointless. Do you know what Serbia did to Albanians, Bosnians and Croations?. Who are you to tell us that we should still be under control by Serbs.

This is why a Confederate will never happen; Serbs dont want to be equal.

Everything is documented and everyone knows what happend in 1999

For GSP.

In case you are not aware Kosovo is independent from Serbia for 9 years now.
Kosovo have its own parliament and government which are elected in free and democratic way by the people of Kosovo.
The minorities have all their rights respected and the government is trying hard to make them incorporate to the life in Kosovo.
The “independency in paper” will enable the government to attract the foreign investment and lift the standards of living for all the Kosovo’s people including the minorities. Since not many investments are expected from the Russian or Rumanian and Cypriot’s it will not be “catastrophic” if they refuse to recognize Kosovo.
Belgrade has no say in Kosovo internal or external affairs and the president and prime minister off Serbia need permission to enter Kosovo.
The EU mission is temporary in case you don’t know.
Independency will be supervised to guarantee the minorities that they will not be mistreated. Since the Albanians have made it clear that they intend to do just that, I don’t see this mission staying there for long.
Of course you will always have people who will oppose the independency encourages from the radicals in Belgrade.
The typical example is the city of Mitrovica who the minority Serb’s refuse to pay their taxes and pay for their electricity and water. They rather live on benefits they get from the government of Kosovo.
No wonder they oppose independency ….. I rather have my children’s get educated and work hard for their living, rather than live in hand outs from the government.
What future they have? I fill sorry for them but they need to blame their politician in Belgrade not the Albanians.

You clearly don't get it that your illegal declaration of secession remains illegal since 1244 will never be rescinded. Illegal recognition of dependence is as good as it gets and there won't be any money being wasted by the EU so economic development is likely to stall all the more as the mafiocracy get a bigger strangle hold ! No Western company is likely to invest in the amounts that would be required while dubious and contentious property rights are still to be resolved.

(Princip, UK, 7 February 2008 20:50)


I am really impressed with how much you know about Kosova and its future.
Well, when Kosova declares its “illegal” independence and it is recognised by the countries that matter to Kosova you can write the number 1244 as many times you like.
What impresses me is the fact that Serbian government is so pro UN legislations.
Where was the respect for the UN (and humanity) in the 90s?
It is not take what you want and ignore what you don’t like.
And please, stop giving us history lectures.
I can think of over 6 Billion people more qualified that you on that matter.

right so, Russia.

but they will need some more time to realize it...

let them just declare their toy-"independence" and then let them feel what it means to be on the wrong side of the law...

broad autonomy is what they will have some day. and perhaps they will even be glad to get it under international guarantees then...

let´s see...

(GSP, 7 February 2008 23:32)

No GSP,

That means that we have a neighbour in the north that is trigger happy.
That means that we don’t have the military power to match the one that Serbia possesses.
This is understandable since Serbia was a state and Kosova was occupied.
We can and we will govern ourselves, do not worry about that.
You accuse us for needing external assistance to protect us from any potential intervention by Serbia, however you gladly forget the fact the fact that you rely to the same level (if not more) on you ally Russia.

well i don't know about you guys and gals, but putin's russia "barking" scares me a bit. of course that is the intent. and maybe i spent too many years living in the cold war. it may seem funny or even romantic these days, but once upon a time we had trouble sleeping wondering if we would actually wake up the next day. nuclear war would have been more than just another ecological blip.

i am born and raised in the usa, and thus am more than a little crtical of my own govt. and its questionable policies. but this russia thing is so obviously based on anti-democratic bullying. it is such an outrage, and makes the west look positively enlightened in comparison. and some of the posters here actuall admire this russia?

anyway, kosovo will be indeendent, and don't you all lose sleep worrying about exactly HOW independent. as for the UN, it has lost much of its luster for me over the years, but sadly it's the only game in town. but for th time being, the eu and world bank, etc will do for the time being. and INDEpendence!!! free at last, free at last.

Let me just point out the irony of Albanians talking about UN charter allowing admission of Kosovo to UN if enough countries recognise it, while Kosovo declaring independence is a DIRECT violation of that very charter.

So are Albanians gonna use UN charter when it suits them?

Second of all, I believe many underestimate the rest of the world. Where are Albanians gonna find countries to make up over 150 to reocgnise them when half of those have the same separatists problems.
Any country which wishes to uphold the international law will not recognize Kosovo.

Kosovo i Metohija's independence is best for Republika Srpska and for Serbs living here.
Milan, Banja Luka.

This is completely untrue:

" This is completely untrue, as per UN international charter once a country declares independence and is accepted by more then 150 countries around the world "done, as only russia and serbia oppose it" "

According to the United Nations Charter, Chapter 2, Article 4:[1]

Membership in the United Nations is open to all other peace-loving states which accept the obligations contained in the present Charter and, in the judgment of the Organization, are able and willing to carry out these obligations.
The admission of any such state to membership in the United Nations will be effected by a decision of the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

So Russia can veto it in the UNSC. And many more countries than just Serbia and Russia oppose the independence of Kosovo.

"A bit contradictory this new. It tells us that Russia is on principle poised against independence. Then Mr Chizhov tries to convince us on how meaningless a prominent declaration of independence would be"

Well the obvious conclusion is that Russia is against Kosovo declaring an independence that is effectively pointless.

@ Nehat Krasniqi - I am not sure where you got your information. Chapter 2, Article, Paragraph 2 of the UN Charter makes it very clear that membership requires Security Council authorisation:

"The admission of any such state to membership in the United Nations will be effected by a decision of the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council."

You will not get real independence. Instead, you are being offered a fake 'independence' to calm you down and keep you quiet for the meantime. It will mean nothing in the end. You will not be counted amongst the 192 real states in this world, a list that includes Serbia.

To illi -

Please help me and others belonging to the "Serb camp" how KosovO is independent?

*you cannot govern yourselves without an outside support agency.
*your "leaders" are all for the EU coming in to help with "control" of the "current situation".

It seems to be that the situation at hand is due to YOUR doing & no one elses. If you & the other inhabitants of KosovO feel that the only way for independence is to have the EU come in, you're highly mistaken. That's a given that you cannot effectively govern yourselves.

Thachi, Ceku & all the other figure heads are just that - FIGURE HEADS.

Russia: Kosovo independence would set dangerous precedent

I saw Putin Today on BBC anouncing very angrily that Russia is going to build up her weaponry for a "new arms race". His words! I liked Putin when he came in power, later he showd some negative signs and even Russians in Toronto didn't like him. Few years later and he and his people have built an ugly form of nationalism(westerners use nationalism in a negative connotation, to Albanians nationalism=patriotism, but here i'm using the one with negative meaning). It is mixed with self victimization("Oh everyone picks on us Russians") when they are respected like anyone else in the West. I'm wondering if any Russian sees what's going on...What a change in so few years. One more proof that evil is much easier to inflict in people and could come from anywhere in a society. In my understanding, this was achieved by making feel people hurt, especially young people who have not experienced our past political system, of "losing" the cold war, that their honor was walked all over, that they were the greatest etc etc. Another quote of Putin from Today's speech "Russia is buildin gup her arms because of security threats to our country". I'm asking my self, but please tell me, who in their right mind would DARE attack Russia?
This is what happens when you make an ex-KGB the head of the biggest country in the world which had some social and economic problems. This is the mistake in thinking that KGB would have "changed". Foolish world. I was foolish as well, forgotten the past, knew KGB only from movies and thought it was "cool" to have a spy as president/priminister.WRONG!
We often don't talk to people who have hurt us in our personal lives, and why would we accept polititians, out of all people, to be "changed" suddenly? Memory of a goldfish, crowd mentality, better economic/social conditions, marketing and the general predisposition of the humble people to believe that almost everyone in the street or society is good and can be trusted.

ach pejoni, fifa :) that ought to make a difference in your gdp :)
not that kosovo will ever join fifa, mind you :)
anyway i told you a few days ago, we paid good money for this blocking service.

Are you aware that the president of Serbia need to ask permision to enter Kosovo?
Does this tell you guys something?
(ilir,

-I don’t know does president needs permission or any other Serbian politician, but what I know I that they occasionally visit Kosovo freely, make speeches in meetings and open government offices. From my point of view, enough for the time being, and I am sure there will be more to be seen and heard from Belgrade.

Blero,

"One question:
The Serbia that is in UN (one of the 192 countries), will it contain Kosovo.
No.
Mission accomplished. "

- actually 1244 still stands thus UN legality remains that Kosovo & Metohija remain. You clearly don't get it that your illegal declaration of secession remains illegal since 1244 will never be rescinded. Illegal recognition of dependence is as good as it gets and there won't be any money being wasted by the EU so economic development is likely to stall all the more as the mafiocracy get a bigger strangle hold ! No Western company is likely to invest in the amounts that would be required while dubious and contentious property rights are still to be resolved.

Go call your illegal declarations but realise that the legal limbo (status quo) remains but with greater difficulty and this will split the province since the Serbian population will just ignore it - its illegal. What can teh EU or NATO do when tehy are ignored - shoot? Hardly likly to bring stability or a resolved status but then you guys believe all your told by the mafiocracy with such ideas as "Ilyrians", "Dardania" or "polar bears in Sar planina" - keep believing have your false celebration we will see where it gets you since illegal remains illegal - end of the day you still will not have anything close to independence - in some ways Kurti was absolutely right guess!

Many people on this website just don't "get it". Russia is opposing Kosovo independence as payback against the west for "winning" the Cold War and pushing NATO to the borders of Russia. Both Russia and China finally figured out that they can successfully fight an economic and diplomatic war against the west. I see the EU as being trapped by their twisted logic and hitting the panic button. Next week, they are going to start begging the Russians to abandon Serbia. The US has effectively thrown the EU under the Kosovo bus and only mutters "ahtassari" when asked about Kosovo which they know is a non-starter. The US is trying to force the EU to negotiate with the Serbs because the US can never admit that they were wrong in their Balkan policy and negotiate with Serbia directly. Don't forget history: The US fought a stupid war in Vietnam for eight years before finally running away. And it took them another 10 years to get over it. The K-albos are also starting to get nervous about their "supporters". I noticed that some of their posters are writing "CDI" instead of "UDI". The basic truth is if they declare independence and get little to no recognition, they lost big time. The media keeps repeating "independence is inevitable". The truth is "crisis is inevitable" and the west is starting to wonder if they can afford it at this time.

Ahmet said, "Taiwan is not a UN member but doing just fine, but we going to do much better becasue we will be recognized officially by most developed countries in the world. So we have the advantege that Taiwan does not."

Trust me, you won't do better than Taiwan. Wait and see who American businesses have more trade with an independent Kosovo or the autonomus Chinese province of Taiwan.

Taiwan has the advantage, not Kosovo. Taiwan is not the subject of a territorial dispute, but Kosovo is. Taiwan is the example that Kosovo should have followed.

Taiwan is part of China on paper only, but that's enough to keep China happy and Taiwan can develop its economy and culture without interference from Beijing.

Belgrade offered you the same deal, but you insisted on full independence just to be spiteful.

You fundamentally don't understand the West. We have free markets and private enterprise. Recognition from our governments doesn't mean anything. We aren't communists, you have to win-over our businessmen not our politicians if you want any economic prosperity. Recognition from the U.S. government doesn't guarantee a single dollar of American investment in Kosovo. You'll have to convince individual American businessmen that Kosovo is a good place to invest.

The fact of the matter is that our businessmen don't invest their money in regions that are the subject of territorial disputes. Why do you think Taiwan isn't threatening a war to win independence from China? The people in Taiwan are smart enough to realize that doing so would send their country back to the stone age.

All Serbia has to do is talk tough and rattle the sabre a little bit now and then and Kosovo won't have any foreign investment.

Kosovo has always been Serbia and should remain so at any cost.
A Spaniard

Kosovo is curently the most paradoxical state in the world. In that state live albanian people that cutoff from Serbia and the name of the state has its origin in Serbian word for a bird.By faith they are not christian but still they are surrounded with orthodox monasteries and churches.They are not apprehensive of the curse this kind of legacy can bring. They have patrons in countries that are 10.000 miles away that know nothing about them despite their writers and poets were most recent published and translated in Belgrade. They gained a state that is and isn't independent, because it will be oversean as long as US military base Bondsteel by the town of Gnjilane exists. On the west they are well known for people and drug trafficing while the finest pages of them were writen by Serbian writers and ethnologists from Miljanov to Cvijic. I wouldn't like to be in position of members of this community. It is is fine and honourable to be a Serb in this moment. HISTORY IS A MARATHON THAT IS RUN BY CENTURIES.