23

Wednesday, 06.02.2008.

18:43

Fleiner: 1244 provides no basis for EU mission

Thomas Fleiner says that the valid UN resolution on Kosovo gives no legal basis to EU's mission plans.

Izvor: Tanjug

Fleiner: 1244 provides no basis for EU mission IMAGE SOURCE
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23 Komentari

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Blero

pre 16 godina

To B92,

Can somebody please explain to me why is that my reply to Jovan’s comment has been omitted?
If you find anything wrong with the comment you can always remove the offending line (if any) but completely ignoring the comment is unacceptable.

Can you please put this comment (the same as the one omitted)?


Jovan,

If you want people to read your replies, please follow the simple rule below:
Do not start arguments with “Name, my dear friend…”.
It just shows the cynicism of the reply you are about to put forward.
We both know that I am neither dear to you nor am I your friend.
So please, start your replies with a simple “Blero” and I will return you the honour by reading your replies (and replying to them).

johny

pre 16 godina

The land is of the people who live there. Can Kosova/o not be inhabited by Albanians in 500? Of course it may, who know what will happen in 500 years. Can Kosova/o Albanians after 500 claim to be their territory. They can, but that doesn't change anything if constitute 10% of the population or less, unless they have the backing of a powerful ally that forces the 90% majority of people in Kosova/o to be ruled by the 10% minority. Get my point. The territory is of the majority of people living in that territory

Blero

pre 16 godina

Jovan,

If you want people to read your replies, please follow the simple rule below:
Do not start arguments with “Name, my dear friend…”.
It just shows the cynicism of the reply you are about to put forward.
We both know that I am neither dear to you nor am I your friend.
So please, start your replies with a simple “Blero” and I will return you the honour by reading your replies.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

Blero, my dear friend...

if only it was true what you are saying...

I guess the truth is rather that you can´t await to grab something you never owned... since it never was yours...

and now you believe to have the opportunity...

but, don´t worry, you won´t get away with it.

and, ...perhaps, you should not reiterate those eye-watering stories of being burned and now looking for "freedom"... the Serbs in in their southern province have been burnt two times in the last century, and now it´s almost 9 years of the third time...

if K-albanians talk of getting freedom in regard to the illegal attempt to grab serbian territory...

it is the word freedom perverted!

Blero

pre 16 godina

You ask how autonomy can be assured. Well autonomy will be assured by the EU! EU supervised autonomy by the EU mission (EUlex) until Serbia, including the autonomous province of Kosovo, enters the EU with the EU assuring Kosovos autonomy within Serbia for eternity!
(legaleye, 7 February 2008 05:21)

Legaleye,

That comment of your would be very viable if we did not get burned in the past.
As a matter of fact so badly burned that we are still trying to put down the fire.
You see, we had a guarantied autonomy within Yugoslavia that got taken away with Tanks.
So waiting for another influx of Serbian tanks in Kosovo is not the option we will be taking.
This time we are playing safe. Why cause future problems.

lowe

pre 16 godina

"bmrusila: Sue us and see if we care! Kosova is gone, forget it and watch out that you don't lose the EU too in the process. With a debt of 25 billion (!!!), a government falling apart I think Serbia needs the EU more than the EU needs it and in any case I don't think Serbia is in a position to do much about Kosova at all. So cut your loses and accept the inevitable.
(teni, 6 February 2008 23:36) "

teni,

it cuts both ways. Kosovo has its economic problems too, in fact I read that Serbia is currently paying for Kosovo's debts and your coming UDI will not improve the economic situation for you.

Moreover the UDI will result in a de facto partition at the Ibar.

And Pristina will also have to accept the inevitable -- forget about joining international organisations like the UN, COE and OSCE. You may not care initially (or claim not to care), but trust me, eventually you will clamor for UN state recognition -- ask the Taiwanese, they tried for over 30 years and failed due to China's veto power -- and Taiwan is moreover a booming economy unlike Kosovo's. Then you will need to go back to the drawing board and negotiate an agreement with Belgrade -- the Russians have already made this abundantly clear at the UN.

JohnBoy

pre 16 godina

When the pipeline comes in, Serbia's debt will disappear. The EU would try to keep Serbia in debt as long as they could. Is someone counting the western aid to prop up Kosovo as Serbia's debt? How much does Albania owe?

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

Petar,

Where do you get this "well-known" information about jihadist influence increasing in Kosovo? It is very bad information. Even if jihadists tried to enter, they would not find support. The western world saved the Albanians a few years ago. There are new-born children named after the Western leaders that saved them (Madeleine etc), that's how strong the gratitude to the West is. Also, for the Albanians it would mean turning their backs on the western world and America, which are keeping Serbia away from them. Albanians wouldn't like to see how Serbian governments would respect the resolution 1244 if NATO left Kosovo. There is not that much trust yet..

Don't worry about "likely civil wars" when Independence comes, there won't be any more wars. Just a big party the next day and a lot of work to do later.

Question for the posters here or B92: Is there a place where one could read what agreement (in English or Albanian possibly) the Serbian government is offering to the Albanians about autonomy? I would like to read it in detail.

Also, compliments to B92 for keeping us posted and allowing us to talk with each other...

johny

pre 16 godina

Serbians get lost in useless rhetoric. The problem is very simple. In the 1990's you had Serbia disregarding all the powerful nations of Earth ( that is US, UK, France, Italy, Germany, and all the anglo-saxon states that are their allies),with exception of Russia of course. Russia was involved in its own ethnic cleansing in Chechnya.
All these big powers set the rules and make the laws. Disregarded them completely, disregarded their rules and their laws. It went even further and disarmed UN troops who were from the Netherlands by the way.
Now Serbia is begging these same powerful countries to follow their rule even though Serbia disregarded the calls of these countries not to break those rules. What is happening now basically is that these powerful countries that set the rules and make the laws are telling Serbia that since you broke those same rules before, we are making new rules that apply just to you and we are not gonna follow the old rules just like you did not follow them. And since things are this way we Albanians are saying watch us and while these powerful countries recognize our independence you can go ahead and read 1244 while selling all your natural resources to uncle Putin; he needs a couple more billions for himself.

legaleye

pre 16 godina

Dear Kiko,

You ask how autonomy can be assured. Well autonomy will be assured by the EU! EU supervised autonomy by the EU mission (EUlex) until Serbia, including the autonomous province of Kosovo, enters the EU with the EU assuring Kosovos autonomy within Serbia for eternity!

Bob

pre 16 godina

At the end of the bombing the US/NATO signed in bad faith. They never intended to respect the territorial integrity of Serbia, they just wanted to get Milosevic to sign that he would withdraw the army.

This is not just a matter of international law - it is a problem for anyone else signing to end a conflict as to whether there can be any trust in NATO, the US or the EU.

I say this as someone who felt the NATO intervention was justified. What is not justified however, is to cynically ignore what was signed. Respecting the territorial integrity of Serbia means internationally guaranteed autonomy - not the creation of a new mono-ethnically motivated state.

In future, when a NATO intervention is proposed, it will be harder politically to justify it because of the lack of trust in their signatures.

The EU still has time to dissociate from this deception and to return to the true spirit of 1244.

Petar

pre 16 godina

Kiko,

There are indeed many interpretations of UN 1244. One has to consider that the people who signed that document were not drunk and not asleep and that legal experts on both sides were involved creating it. What is interesting is that Serbia is much more confident when it comes to UN 1244 and it does not need out-of-the-box interpretations. Just plain language and say it like it is! I can understand your frustration and anger with various issues. Considering the large differences between Serbs and (Kosovo) Albanians (language, religion, history, culture, and so on) it is clear that any solution cannot only be good for one side. The only way to regain some balance is by finding a compromise. One of the problems is that lots of people always blamed all the bad things of Yugoslavia on Serbs and Serbia. The reality is that there were also Croation, Slovenian, Bosnian, Macedonian and Kosovo Yugoslavs (so there were also Kosovo Albanian Communists). There are also Serbs that suffered in Yugoslavia. If life before 1989 was so bas how come that the EU and others did not do anything then? Maybe then they had no interest or maybe life was not that bad. Considering all the lies and false accusations that have been spread about the Serbs and Serbia it has become very likely that outsiders do not believe them anymore (just like nobody believes George Bush anymore). Of course Albanians are also human and not all of you are Muslim extremist. However, I doubt that the Kosovo Albanian provincal government cares about anybody but themselves and the people who have interests in their business. I am sure that most secular Muslims do not want to have anything to do with jihadists, but this group is very much interested in Kosovo and it is well-known that their influence is increasing (especially among young males). Even if! Kosovo would become independent and the common "enemy" (Serbs) are gone (most of them are unfortunately gone and these were nice simple people that just wanted to have a life as well and who had to survive like all of you) it is not unlikely that differences between clans become more important and that one day there will be a civil war in Kosovo. There are nationalists at all sides and loyalty to ones own country can be very strong. I also wish peace to all, but that is a long and hard road and it takes courage to walk that road. Do not trust outsiders (EU, NATO, US) too much, because they only care about their own interests.

teni

pre 16 godina

bmrusila: Sue us and see if we care! Kosova is gone, forget it and watch out that you don't lose the EU too in the process. With a debt of 25 billion (!!!), a government falling apart I think Serbia needs the EU more than the EU needs it and in any case I don't think Serbia is in a position to do much about Kosova at all. So cut your loses and accept the inevitable.

miri

pre 16 godina

Now that Mr. Fleiner has spoken, we are speechless.

We never thought anyone would catch the "trick". Some people, like Mr. Fleiner, are really lucky, they are paid a load of money to repeat in vain something that no one cares about.

kiko

pre 16 godina

Great opinion of how to interpret resolution 1244.

But it is only one advisers or experts viewpoint. Do you think there are other interpretations??????????

Answer: Yes there are!

To the gentlemen that said that Autonomy is the best solution to the current situation in Kosovo/a. Is it truly the best solution?????????????

Best solution for who?

And how can a nation offer something to a ppl that they had prior to 1989 and tell them that its the best solution for them??????

Is serbia a INDIAN GIVER nation? So if they offer Autonomy they can take it back whenever they feel like. Doesn't sound to assuring considering its political past. With the nationalists holding the majority power from any single political group. Nationalist or Communist any difference?????

How about simply saying I'm sorry to the ppl of kosovo/a for what their late Milosevic did???????

Serbia did that for the other republics. Why not kosovo/a?????

Are albanians not human??? Or are they just Thieves, Murderers, Drug dealers, oh and Especially MUSLIM Jihadists! Serbian view of albanians including the above commentators.

I don't believe all serbs think that way. I know there are many good serbs out there. Where were your voices when you saw atrocities being committed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo/a??????? To scared to speak up bc you didn't want to be labeled a traitor or someone that is not pro-serb. Very sad!

Since the loss of kosovo/a serbia has become very democratic in using the UN and International Law as its means of proving their point. And saying they respect the rule of law and acting as if they were the champions of the rule of law. Where was that spirit before 1999???????

All the things that happened during the wars in the 90's never respected the rule of law in any form. Or even during the entire 20th century.

Albanians were a nuissance and nothing more. That was serbia's attitude towards the residents of kosovo/a.

Ppl parade here like they were always democratic and followed the law, where were you when it counted the most????????????

Peace to all,

Kiko

Valter

pre 16 godina

No comments here? Well Mr. Fleiner have told everything.
There is law, and the only incredible thing is that EU
does not follow the international laws.
Indeed, why should Serbia ever join such organization?

Cygnus

pre 16 godina

That should definitely clear things up for some of the confused B92 bloggers. Serbia is the legal successor of Yugoslavia, new military and or political missions with regard to Kosovo require the consent of the Serbian government.

Milos

pre 16 godina

Kosovo Albanians,

What else can I add to the careful and objective analysis of an educated legal expert who clearly knows what he is talking about. Please spare me the comments that he is an advisor for the Serbian government and that because of that he is biased. The only conclusion I can draw by using my common sense is that the whole desired and rush-like idea for an EU mission does not make a chance unless there will be a violation of the UN charter. That also means that it is very likely that your desired proclamation of independence from The Republic of Serbia will have to be delayed (again). Europe largely rejected the complete disregard for the UN the US showed before the invasion of Iraq and because of that Europe is now in much less of a mess than the US. Either the EU is being pushed by the US or the EU thinks that it can also get away with bypassing the UN. If they decide to take that tricky route one may consider getting rid of the UN. The Republic of Serbia is a souvereign member of the UN and other international organizations and has every right to defend that souvereignity. I know this is a hard situation and prior to 1998 Serbs and Kosovo Albanians could live together in a weak balance. It is also true that a split of both populations would be best and I am sure most Serbs would be happy to say goodbye to you. I still think that the autonomy offered to you is the best for all, but if that is not enough there should be deal that is acceptable to both parties (which will involve the full participation of both sides to come to that deal). At this point of time I am afraid that your American and EU friends (who are after their own interests) cannot deliver what they have promised you for too long. I know I am just a bystander and this whole soap opera is getting more interesting every day and the outcome is still not clear.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

And DS think it is a great idea to sign up with an EU that deceives and will act illegally in ripping Serbia apart by sending its mission and acting with unilateral recognition???

Cygnus

pre 16 godina

That should definitely clear things up for some of the confused B92 bloggers. Serbia is the legal successor of Yugoslavia, new military and or political missions with regard to Kosovo require the consent of the Serbian government.

Milos

pre 16 godina

Kosovo Albanians,

What else can I add to the careful and objective analysis of an educated legal expert who clearly knows what he is talking about. Please spare me the comments that he is an advisor for the Serbian government and that because of that he is biased. The only conclusion I can draw by using my common sense is that the whole desired and rush-like idea for an EU mission does not make a chance unless there will be a violation of the UN charter. That also means that it is very likely that your desired proclamation of independence from The Republic of Serbia will have to be delayed (again). Europe largely rejected the complete disregard for the UN the US showed before the invasion of Iraq and because of that Europe is now in much less of a mess than the US. Either the EU is being pushed by the US or the EU thinks that it can also get away with bypassing the UN. If they decide to take that tricky route one may consider getting rid of the UN. The Republic of Serbia is a souvereign member of the UN and other international organizations and has every right to defend that souvereignity. I know this is a hard situation and prior to 1998 Serbs and Kosovo Albanians could live together in a weak balance. It is also true that a split of both populations would be best and I am sure most Serbs would be happy to say goodbye to you. I still think that the autonomy offered to you is the best for all, but if that is not enough there should be deal that is acceptable to both parties (which will involve the full participation of both sides to come to that deal). At this point of time I am afraid that your American and EU friends (who are after their own interests) cannot deliver what they have promised you for too long. I know I am just a bystander and this whole soap opera is getting more interesting every day and the outcome is still not clear.

Valter

pre 16 godina

No comments here? Well Mr. Fleiner have told everything.
There is law, and the only incredible thing is that EU
does not follow the international laws.
Indeed, why should Serbia ever join such organization?

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

And DS think it is a great idea to sign up with an EU that deceives and will act illegally in ripping Serbia apart by sending its mission and acting with unilateral recognition???

lowe

pre 16 godina

"bmrusila: Sue us and see if we care! Kosova is gone, forget it and watch out that you don't lose the EU too in the process. With a debt of 25 billion (!!!), a government falling apart I think Serbia needs the EU more than the EU needs it and in any case I don't think Serbia is in a position to do much about Kosova at all. So cut your loses and accept the inevitable.
(teni, 6 February 2008 23:36) "

teni,

it cuts both ways. Kosovo has its economic problems too, in fact I read that Serbia is currently paying for Kosovo's debts and your coming UDI will not improve the economic situation for you.

Moreover the UDI will result in a de facto partition at the Ibar.

And Pristina will also have to accept the inevitable -- forget about joining international organisations like the UN, COE and OSCE. You may not care initially (or claim not to care), but trust me, eventually you will clamor for UN state recognition -- ask the Taiwanese, they tried for over 30 years and failed due to China's veto power -- and Taiwan is moreover a booming economy unlike Kosovo's. Then you will need to go back to the drawing board and negotiate an agreement with Belgrade -- the Russians have already made this abundantly clear at the UN.

teni

pre 16 godina

bmrusila: Sue us and see if we care! Kosova is gone, forget it and watch out that you don't lose the EU too in the process. With a debt of 25 billion (!!!), a government falling apart I think Serbia needs the EU more than the EU needs it and in any case I don't think Serbia is in a position to do much about Kosova at all. So cut your loses and accept the inevitable.

Petar

pre 16 godina

Kiko,

There are indeed many interpretations of UN 1244. One has to consider that the people who signed that document were not drunk and not asleep and that legal experts on both sides were involved creating it. What is interesting is that Serbia is much more confident when it comes to UN 1244 and it does not need out-of-the-box interpretations. Just plain language and say it like it is! I can understand your frustration and anger with various issues. Considering the large differences between Serbs and (Kosovo) Albanians (language, religion, history, culture, and so on) it is clear that any solution cannot only be good for one side. The only way to regain some balance is by finding a compromise. One of the problems is that lots of people always blamed all the bad things of Yugoslavia on Serbs and Serbia. The reality is that there were also Croation, Slovenian, Bosnian, Macedonian and Kosovo Yugoslavs (so there were also Kosovo Albanian Communists). There are also Serbs that suffered in Yugoslavia. If life before 1989 was so bas how come that the EU and others did not do anything then? Maybe then they had no interest or maybe life was not that bad. Considering all the lies and false accusations that have been spread about the Serbs and Serbia it has become very likely that outsiders do not believe them anymore (just like nobody believes George Bush anymore). Of course Albanians are also human and not all of you are Muslim extremist. However, I doubt that the Kosovo Albanian provincal government cares about anybody but themselves and the people who have interests in their business. I am sure that most secular Muslims do not want to have anything to do with jihadists, but this group is very much interested in Kosovo and it is well-known that their influence is increasing (especially among young males). Even if! Kosovo would become independent and the common "enemy" (Serbs) are gone (most of them are unfortunately gone and these were nice simple people that just wanted to have a life as well and who had to survive like all of you) it is not unlikely that differences between clans become more important and that one day there will be a civil war in Kosovo. There are nationalists at all sides and loyalty to ones own country can be very strong. I also wish peace to all, but that is a long and hard road and it takes courage to walk that road. Do not trust outsiders (EU, NATO, US) too much, because they only care about their own interests.

kiko

pre 16 godina

Great opinion of how to interpret resolution 1244.

But it is only one advisers or experts viewpoint. Do you think there are other interpretations??????????

Answer: Yes there are!

To the gentlemen that said that Autonomy is the best solution to the current situation in Kosovo/a. Is it truly the best solution?????????????

Best solution for who?

And how can a nation offer something to a ppl that they had prior to 1989 and tell them that its the best solution for them??????

Is serbia a INDIAN GIVER nation? So if they offer Autonomy they can take it back whenever they feel like. Doesn't sound to assuring considering its political past. With the nationalists holding the majority power from any single political group. Nationalist or Communist any difference?????

How about simply saying I'm sorry to the ppl of kosovo/a for what their late Milosevic did???????

Serbia did that for the other republics. Why not kosovo/a?????

Are albanians not human??? Or are they just Thieves, Murderers, Drug dealers, oh and Especially MUSLIM Jihadists! Serbian view of albanians including the above commentators.

I don't believe all serbs think that way. I know there are many good serbs out there. Where were your voices when you saw atrocities being committed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo/a??????? To scared to speak up bc you didn't want to be labeled a traitor or someone that is not pro-serb. Very sad!

Since the loss of kosovo/a serbia has become very democratic in using the UN and International Law as its means of proving their point. And saying they respect the rule of law and acting as if they were the champions of the rule of law. Where was that spirit before 1999???????

All the things that happened during the wars in the 90's never respected the rule of law in any form. Or even during the entire 20th century.

Albanians were a nuissance and nothing more. That was serbia's attitude towards the residents of kosovo/a.

Ppl parade here like they were always democratic and followed the law, where were you when it counted the most????????????

Peace to all,

Kiko

JohnBoy

pre 16 godina

When the pipeline comes in, Serbia's debt will disappear. The EU would try to keep Serbia in debt as long as they could. Is someone counting the western aid to prop up Kosovo as Serbia's debt? How much does Albania owe?

miri

pre 16 godina

Now that Mr. Fleiner has spoken, we are speechless.

We never thought anyone would catch the "trick". Some people, like Mr. Fleiner, are really lucky, they are paid a load of money to repeat in vain something that no one cares about.

legaleye

pre 16 godina

Dear Kiko,

You ask how autonomy can be assured. Well autonomy will be assured by the EU! EU supervised autonomy by the EU mission (EUlex) until Serbia, including the autonomous province of Kosovo, enters the EU with the EU assuring Kosovos autonomy within Serbia for eternity!

Bob

pre 16 godina

At the end of the bombing the US/NATO signed in bad faith. They never intended to respect the territorial integrity of Serbia, they just wanted to get Milosevic to sign that he would withdraw the army.

This is not just a matter of international law - it is a problem for anyone else signing to end a conflict as to whether there can be any trust in NATO, the US or the EU.

I say this as someone who felt the NATO intervention was justified. What is not justified however, is to cynically ignore what was signed. Respecting the territorial integrity of Serbia means internationally guaranteed autonomy - not the creation of a new mono-ethnically motivated state.

In future, when a NATO intervention is proposed, it will be harder politically to justify it because of the lack of trust in their signatures.

The EU still has time to dissociate from this deception and to return to the true spirit of 1244.

johny

pre 16 godina

Serbians get lost in useless rhetoric. The problem is very simple. In the 1990's you had Serbia disregarding all the powerful nations of Earth ( that is US, UK, France, Italy, Germany, and all the anglo-saxon states that are their allies),with exception of Russia of course. Russia was involved in its own ethnic cleansing in Chechnya.
All these big powers set the rules and make the laws. Disregarded them completely, disregarded their rules and their laws. It went even further and disarmed UN troops who were from the Netherlands by the way.
Now Serbia is begging these same powerful countries to follow their rule even though Serbia disregarded the calls of these countries not to break those rules. What is happening now basically is that these powerful countries that set the rules and make the laws are telling Serbia that since you broke those same rules before, we are making new rules that apply just to you and we are not gonna follow the old rules just like you did not follow them. And since things are this way we Albanians are saying watch us and while these powerful countries recognize our independence you can go ahead and read 1244 while selling all your natural resources to uncle Putin; he needs a couple more billions for himself.

Blero

pre 16 godina

You ask how autonomy can be assured. Well autonomy will be assured by the EU! EU supervised autonomy by the EU mission (EUlex) until Serbia, including the autonomous province of Kosovo, enters the EU with the EU assuring Kosovos autonomy within Serbia for eternity!
(legaleye, 7 February 2008 05:21)

Legaleye,

That comment of your would be very viable if we did not get burned in the past.
As a matter of fact so badly burned that we are still trying to put down the fire.
You see, we had a guarantied autonomy within Yugoslavia that got taken away with Tanks.
So waiting for another influx of Serbian tanks in Kosovo is not the option we will be taking.
This time we are playing safe. Why cause future problems.

Blero

pre 16 godina

Jovan,

If you want people to read your replies, please follow the simple rule below:
Do not start arguments with “Name, my dear friend…”.
It just shows the cynicism of the reply you are about to put forward.
We both know that I am neither dear to you nor am I your friend.
So please, start your replies with a simple “Blero” and I will return you the honour by reading your replies.

Blero

pre 16 godina

To B92,

Can somebody please explain to me why is that my reply to Jovan’s comment has been omitted?
If you find anything wrong with the comment you can always remove the offending line (if any) but completely ignoring the comment is unacceptable.

Can you please put this comment (the same as the one omitted)?


Jovan,

If you want people to read your replies, please follow the simple rule below:
Do not start arguments with “Name, my dear friend…”.
It just shows the cynicism of the reply you are about to put forward.
We both know that I am neither dear to you nor am I your friend.
So please, start your replies with a simple “Blero” and I will return you the honour by reading your replies (and replying to them).

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

Petar,

Where do you get this "well-known" information about jihadist influence increasing in Kosovo? It is very bad information. Even if jihadists tried to enter, they would not find support. The western world saved the Albanians a few years ago. There are new-born children named after the Western leaders that saved them (Madeleine etc), that's how strong the gratitude to the West is. Also, for the Albanians it would mean turning their backs on the western world and America, which are keeping Serbia away from them. Albanians wouldn't like to see how Serbian governments would respect the resolution 1244 if NATO left Kosovo. There is not that much trust yet..

Don't worry about "likely civil wars" when Independence comes, there won't be any more wars. Just a big party the next day and a lot of work to do later.

Question for the posters here or B92: Is there a place where one could read what agreement (in English or Albanian possibly) the Serbian government is offering to the Albanians about autonomy? I would like to read it in detail.

Also, compliments to B92 for keeping us posted and allowing us to talk with each other...

johny

pre 16 godina

The land is of the people who live there. Can Kosova/o not be inhabited by Albanians in 500? Of course it may, who know what will happen in 500 years. Can Kosova/o Albanians after 500 claim to be their territory. They can, but that doesn't change anything if constitute 10% of the population or less, unless they have the backing of a powerful ally that forces the 90% majority of people in Kosova/o to be ruled by the 10% minority. Get my point. The territory is of the majority of people living in that territory

Jovan

pre 16 godina

Blero, my dear friend...

if only it was true what you are saying...

I guess the truth is rather that you can´t await to grab something you never owned... since it never was yours...

and now you believe to have the opportunity...

but, don´t worry, you won´t get away with it.

and, ...perhaps, you should not reiterate those eye-watering stories of being burned and now looking for "freedom"... the Serbs in in their southern province have been burnt two times in the last century, and now it´s almost 9 years of the third time...

if K-albanians talk of getting freedom in regard to the illegal attempt to grab serbian territory...

it is the word freedom perverted!

miri

pre 16 godina

Now that Mr. Fleiner has spoken, we are speechless.

We never thought anyone would catch the "trick". Some people, like Mr. Fleiner, are really lucky, they are paid a load of money to repeat in vain something that no one cares about.

kiko

pre 16 godina

Great opinion of how to interpret resolution 1244.

But it is only one advisers or experts viewpoint. Do you think there are other interpretations??????????

Answer: Yes there are!

To the gentlemen that said that Autonomy is the best solution to the current situation in Kosovo/a. Is it truly the best solution?????????????

Best solution for who?

And how can a nation offer something to a ppl that they had prior to 1989 and tell them that its the best solution for them??????

Is serbia a INDIAN GIVER nation? So if they offer Autonomy they can take it back whenever they feel like. Doesn't sound to assuring considering its political past. With the nationalists holding the majority power from any single political group. Nationalist or Communist any difference?????

How about simply saying I'm sorry to the ppl of kosovo/a for what their late Milosevic did???????

Serbia did that for the other republics. Why not kosovo/a?????

Are albanians not human??? Or are they just Thieves, Murderers, Drug dealers, oh and Especially MUSLIM Jihadists! Serbian view of albanians including the above commentators.

I don't believe all serbs think that way. I know there are many good serbs out there. Where were your voices when you saw atrocities being committed in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo/a??????? To scared to speak up bc you didn't want to be labeled a traitor or someone that is not pro-serb. Very sad!

Since the loss of kosovo/a serbia has become very democratic in using the UN and International Law as its means of proving their point. And saying they respect the rule of law and acting as if they were the champions of the rule of law. Where was that spirit before 1999???????

All the things that happened during the wars in the 90's never respected the rule of law in any form. Or even during the entire 20th century.

Albanians were a nuissance and nothing more. That was serbia's attitude towards the residents of kosovo/a.

Ppl parade here like they were always democratic and followed the law, where were you when it counted the most????????????

Peace to all,

Kiko

teni

pre 16 godina

bmrusila: Sue us and see if we care! Kosova is gone, forget it and watch out that you don't lose the EU too in the process. With a debt of 25 billion (!!!), a government falling apart I think Serbia needs the EU more than the EU needs it and in any case I don't think Serbia is in a position to do much about Kosova at all. So cut your loses and accept the inevitable.

Blero

pre 16 godina

You ask how autonomy can be assured. Well autonomy will be assured by the EU! EU supervised autonomy by the EU mission (EUlex) until Serbia, including the autonomous province of Kosovo, enters the EU with the EU assuring Kosovos autonomy within Serbia for eternity!
(legaleye, 7 February 2008 05:21)

Legaleye,

That comment of your would be very viable if we did not get burned in the past.
As a matter of fact so badly burned that we are still trying to put down the fire.
You see, we had a guarantied autonomy within Yugoslavia that got taken away with Tanks.
So waiting for another influx of Serbian tanks in Kosovo is not the option we will be taking.
This time we are playing safe. Why cause future problems.

johny

pre 16 godina

Serbians get lost in useless rhetoric. The problem is very simple. In the 1990's you had Serbia disregarding all the powerful nations of Earth ( that is US, UK, France, Italy, Germany, and all the anglo-saxon states that are their allies),with exception of Russia of course. Russia was involved in its own ethnic cleansing in Chechnya.
All these big powers set the rules and make the laws. Disregarded them completely, disregarded their rules and their laws. It went even further and disarmed UN troops who were from the Netherlands by the way.
Now Serbia is begging these same powerful countries to follow their rule even though Serbia disregarded the calls of these countries not to break those rules. What is happening now basically is that these powerful countries that set the rules and make the laws are telling Serbia that since you broke those same rules before, we are making new rules that apply just to you and we are not gonna follow the old rules just like you did not follow them. And since things are this way we Albanians are saying watch us and while these powerful countries recognize our independence you can go ahead and read 1244 while selling all your natural resources to uncle Putin; he needs a couple more billions for himself.

shqarthi

pre 16 godina

Petar,

Where do you get this "well-known" information about jihadist influence increasing in Kosovo? It is very bad information. Even if jihadists tried to enter, they would not find support. The western world saved the Albanians a few years ago. There are new-born children named after the Western leaders that saved them (Madeleine etc), that's how strong the gratitude to the West is. Also, for the Albanians it would mean turning their backs on the western world and America, which are keeping Serbia away from them. Albanians wouldn't like to see how Serbian governments would respect the resolution 1244 if NATO left Kosovo. There is not that much trust yet..

Don't worry about "likely civil wars" when Independence comes, there won't be any more wars. Just a big party the next day and a lot of work to do later.

Question for the posters here or B92: Is there a place where one could read what agreement (in English or Albanian possibly) the Serbian government is offering to the Albanians about autonomy? I would like to read it in detail.

Also, compliments to B92 for keeping us posted and allowing us to talk with each other...

Milos

pre 16 godina

Kosovo Albanians,

What else can I add to the careful and objective analysis of an educated legal expert who clearly knows what he is talking about. Please spare me the comments that he is an advisor for the Serbian government and that because of that he is biased. The only conclusion I can draw by using my common sense is that the whole desired and rush-like idea for an EU mission does not make a chance unless there will be a violation of the UN charter. That also means that it is very likely that your desired proclamation of independence from The Republic of Serbia will have to be delayed (again). Europe largely rejected the complete disregard for the UN the US showed before the invasion of Iraq and because of that Europe is now in much less of a mess than the US. Either the EU is being pushed by the US or the EU thinks that it can also get away with bypassing the UN. If they decide to take that tricky route one may consider getting rid of the UN. The Republic of Serbia is a souvereign member of the UN and other international organizations and has every right to defend that souvereignity. I know this is a hard situation and prior to 1998 Serbs and Kosovo Albanians could live together in a weak balance. It is also true that a split of both populations would be best and I am sure most Serbs would be happy to say goodbye to you. I still think that the autonomy offered to you is the best for all, but if that is not enough there should be deal that is acceptable to both parties (which will involve the full participation of both sides to come to that deal). At this point of time I am afraid that your American and EU friends (who are after their own interests) cannot deliver what they have promised you for too long. I know I am just a bystander and this whole soap opera is getting more interesting every day and the outcome is still not clear.

Cygnus

pre 16 godina

That should definitely clear things up for some of the confused B92 bloggers. Serbia is the legal successor of Yugoslavia, new military and or political missions with regard to Kosovo require the consent of the Serbian government.

Princip, UK

pre 16 godina

And DS think it is a great idea to sign up with an EU that deceives and will act illegally in ripping Serbia apart by sending its mission and acting with unilateral recognition???

Valter

pre 16 godina

No comments here? Well Mr. Fleiner have told everything.
There is law, and the only incredible thing is that EU
does not follow the international laws.
Indeed, why should Serbia ever join such organization?

Petar

pre 16 godina

Kiko,

There are indeed many interpretations of UN 1244. One has to consider that the people who signed that document were not drunk and not asleep and that legal experts on both sides were involved creating it. What is interesting is that Serbia is much more confident when it comes to UN 1244 and it does not need out-of-the-box interpretations. Just plain language and say it like it is! I can understand your frustration and anger with various issues. Considering the large differences between Serbs and (Kosovo) Albanians (language, religion, history, culture, and so on) it is clear that any solution cannot only be good for one side. The only way to regain some balance is by finding a compromise. One of the problems is that lots of people always blamed all the bad things of Yugoslavia on Serbs and Serbia. The reality is that there were also Croation, Slovenian, Bosnian, Macedonian and Kosovo Yugoslavs (so there were also Kosovo Albanian Communists). There are also Serbs that suffered in Yugoslavia. If life before 1989 was so bas how come that the EU and others did not do anything then? Maybe then they had no interest or maybe life was not that bad. Considering all the lies and false accusations that have been spread about the Serbs and Serbia it has become very likely that outsiders do not believe them anymore (just like nobody believes George Bush anymore). Of course Albanians are also human and not all of you are Muslim extremist. However, I doubt that the Kosovo Albanian provincal government cares about anybody but themselves and the people who have interests in their business. I am sure that most secular Muslims do not want to have anything to do with jihadists, but this group is very much interested in Kosovo and it is well-known that their influence is increasing (especially among young males). Even if! Kosovo would become independent and the common "enemy" (Serbs) are gone (most of them are unfortunately gone and these were nice simple people that just wanted to have a life as well and who had to survive like all of you) it is not unlikely that differences between clans become more important and that one day there will be a civil war in Kosovo. There are nationalists at all sides and loyalty to ones own country can be very strong. I also wish peace to all, but that is a long and hard road and it takes courage to walk that road. Do not trust outsiders (EU, NATO, US) too much, because they only care about their own interests.

Bob

pre 16 godina

At the end of the bombing the US/NATO signed in bad faith. They never intended to respect the territorial integrity of Serbia, they just wanted to get Milosevic to sign that he would withdraw the army.

This is not just a matter of international law - it is a problem for anyone else signing to end a conflict as to whether there can be any trust in NATO, the US or the EU.

I say this as someone who felt the NATO intervention was justified. What is not justified however, is to cynically ignore what was signed. Respecting the territorial integrity of Serbia means internationally guaranteed autonomy - not the creation of a new mono-ethnically motivated state.

In future, when a NATO intervention is proposed, it will be harder politically to justify it because of the lack of trust in their signatures.

The EU still has time to dissociate from this deception and to return to the true spirit of 1244.

legaleye

pre 16 godina

Dear Kiko,

You ask how autonomy can be assured. Well autonomy will be assured by the EU! EU supervised autonomy by the EU mission (EUlex) until Serbia, including the autonomous province of Kosovo, enters the EU with the EU assuring Kosovos autonomy within Serbia for eternity!

JohnBoy

pre 16 godina

When the pipeline comes in, Serbia's debt will disappear. The EU would try to keep Serbia in debt as long as they could. Is someone counting the western aid to prop up Kosovo as Serbia's debt? How much does Albania owe?

lowe

pre 16 godina

"bmrusila: Sue us and see if we care! Kosova is gone, forget it and watch out that you don't lose the EU too in the process. With a debt of 25 billion (!!!), a government falling apart I think Serbia needs the EU more than the EU needs it and in any case I don't think Serbia is in a position to do much about Kosova at all. So cut your loses and accept the inevitable.
(teni, 6 February 2008 23:36) "

teni,

it cuts both ways. Kosovo has its economic problems too, in fact I read that Serbia is currently paying for Kosovo's debts and your coming UDI will not improve the economic situation for you.

Moreover the UDI will result in a de facto partition at the Ibar.

And Pristina will also have to accept the inevitable -- forget about joining international organisations like the UN, COE and OSCE. You may not care initially (or claim not to care), but trust me, eventually you will clamor for UN state recognition -- ask the Taiwanese, they tried for over 30 years and failed due to China's veto power -- and Taiwan is moreover a booming economy unlike Kosovo's. Then you will need to go back to the drawing board and negotiate an agreement with Belgrade -- the Russians have already made this abundantly clear at the UN.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

Blero, my dear friend...

if only it was true what you are saying...

I guess the truth is rather that you can´t await to grab something you never owned... since it never was yours...

and now you believe to have the opportunity...

but, don´t worry, you won´t get away with it.

and, ...perhaps, you should not reiterate those eye-watering stories of being burned and now looking for "freedom"... the Serbs in in their southern province have been burnt two times in the last century, and now it´s almost 9 years of the third time...

if K-albanians talk of getting freedom in regard to the illegal attempt to grab serbian territory...

it is the word freedom perverted!

Blero

pre 16 godina

Jovan,

If you want people to read your replies, please follow the simple rule below:
Do not start arguments with “Name, my dear friend…”.
It just shows the cynicism of the reply you are about to put forward.
We both know that I am neither dear to you nor am I your friend.
So please, start your replies with a simple “Blero” and I will return you the honour by reading your replies.

johny

pre 16 godina

The land is of the people who live there. Can Kosova/o not be inhabited by Albanians in 500? Of course it may, who know what will happen in 500 years. Can Kosova/o Albanians after 500 claim to be their territory. They can, but that doesn't change anything if constitute 10% of the population or less, unless they have the backing of a powerful ally that forces the 90% majority of people in Kosova/o to be ruled by the 10% minority. Get my point. The territory is of the majority of people living in that territory

Blero

pre 16 godina

To B92,

Can somebody please explain to me why is that my reply to Jovan’s comment has been omitted?
If you find anything wrong with the comment you can always remove the offending line (if any) but completely ignoring the comment is unacceptable.

Can you please put this comment (the same as the one omitted)?


Jovan,

If you want people to read your replies, please follow the simple rule below:
Do not start arguments with “Name, my dear friend…”.
It just shows the cynicism of the reply you are about to put forward.
We both know that I am neither dear to you nor am I your friend.
So please, start your replies with a simple “Blero” and I will return you the honour by reading your replies (and replying to them).