Kosovo Trade Ministry re-writing history

I am astonished by this. Not content to simply burn down the Orthodox churches, the K-Albanians are now embarking on a programme of "historical revisionism". A compaign of cultural vandalism has now been stepped up a gear to cultural cleansing.

This has been tried before in other parts of the world and has failed, because the people who attempt it cannot overcome the ultimate obstacle - the truth.

- this is an example of the future of a supervised dependence would create.

The reality of the rhetorhic espoused by the Eurocrats will be just as remote from reality as exemplified by the rhetoric espoused under the same technocrats that have created the disater and failure of the past 8 years!

Quick reminder of a Chinese proverb that Bush could not say properly;

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

- The shame is now on the technocrats who have created this failure and Serbia and the world need not listen to such folly again. Its clear that the rhetoric they espouse is a shameful lie and will never be implemented by the ethnic Albanians who clearly have shown do not wish to take heed of the Technocratic babble and clearly plan on eradicating all existance of non-Albanian culture, history and peoples if they take control - did anyone mention the true meaning of Genocide???

Ah, it's nice to know Albanian "academics" are working so hard at historical revisionism. If they worked this hard at economics, the land might actually be productive!

Now Kosovo has a sea? Awesome. Please let me know once it acquires a moon.

This is just all the more reason for the EU to come in and take over the education system.

Just one more question to the Albanian intellectuals here:

How are you going to "scientifically prove" that Serbian churches were once Albanian? You got a couple of Polaroids of Stephan Nemanja kicking out a bunch of Illyrians from their houses of worship? Are you prepared to challenge decades of Byzantine scholarship that has definitively placed dozens, if not hundreds, of landmarks in Kosovo squarely within Serbia's cultural heritage? You ready to challenge UNESCO?

And do you honestly believe that anybody in the academic world is going to take your "scholars" seriously?

Stealing history? This is one of the most pathetic things I've seen coming out of this region.

Im not surprised. wouldn't be surprised if the next thing that they put up is a map of europe with serbia shaded out. Show me one serbian produced map of europe where albania isnt shown. Talk about absolutely disgusting. Hey but yeah, say what you want. keep coming up with as many lies as you want and can. those churches were built by serbs for serbs. and if they had belonged to the albanians even once (yeah right!) they wouldnt have tried to destroy and torch as many of them as they could. To destory someones churches which have been around for centuries is one thing, but to then go and claim that they are albanian and have absolutely no reference to serbs is beyond ridiculous. What comes around goes around.

since they have no significance in the history of that serbian province...it´s more than understandable that they are forced to falsify and hide the truth behind veils...

does anybody really wonder about that?

as the scientist has said it: there is not any link to the Albanians..

and in science, things are embedded.

that means, you can present things the way you like it, but who really cares?

"albanian-byzantine"... ts ts ts... the best joke is, that you even believe in those stories!

It is truly sad when the one has nothing own to be proud on but must assume other's historical facts as own. Truly sad. Otherwise, the style it’s “truly Byzantine- catholic”. Absurd! Few days ago we could read in b92 in Serbian language about the white bears living in Sar Planina, again Albanian propaganda.

oh sweet jesus :) guys, albanians, friends: you're muslim, people, get over it already. surely it cant be that bad :)
what a crack, albanian alps... i'm emailing this to everyone i know :)

I think this is clearly stepping over the line in a big way. If the Albanians in Kosovo can not respect our history and our sacred sites than any partition plan that goes into effect will have to include our most important sites.

I know there are plenty of moderate Albanians who would oppose such insanely provocative moves and I hope they speak up. If this is an indication of how our history is to be treated under a future Albanian government it’s clearly going to lead to war and violence at some point.

Seriously, what is the purpose behind such claims? Taking control of the land is one thing, trying to erase any trace of the Serbian people from the cradle of our civilization is Cultural Genocide.

These kinds of actions are enough to turn even moderate Serbs into radicals. Nothing good will come from this. I deeply fear for the future…

How absurd.

"Kosova, in fact has two seas: The Adriatic and Ionian sea, whereas Serbas are landlocked."

Um, John......

Here's a map of Kosovo:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/kosovo_pol98.jpg

Show me where the Adriatic and the Ionian seas border Kosovo.

You didn't perhaps contribute to the writing of this website in question, did you? Your comments follow the same train of logic.

If you visit the website of the serbian government, you can see that it is FULL OF HATE against the albanians.
As for the churches, it is true that some of the orthodox churches were catholic churches before but then they were changed into orthodox ones. This can be proved by science.
There was a group of scientists from Western Europe looking into this matter but because of the sensitive times, they stopped publishing their information for a while until Kosova becomes independent which will of course happen in the next 10-15 days.
I am not trying to bring propaganda with this comment but this is the truth.
Thanks.

The only thing this can be called is ethnic cleansing and irredentism both sponsored by the EU, US, and those that recognize a unilateral declaration of independence. Supposedly, the Kosovo Government is to respect minority rights and include all in their society, but it is clear this is all just for show. Everyone should have seen this coming when the Education Ministry told all the Gorani, Muslim Slavs, that they couldn’t use Serbian textbooks anymore while the Ahtisaari plan called for local autonomy in municipalities where minorities made the majority. Albanians clearly don’t look forward to a multi-ethnic society. They look forward to revenge.

But we will have to see what the EU has to say about this. The High Representative, or whatever the position is called, has to the right to override the Kosovo Government under the Ahtisaari plan. So we could see those names revert back to their original names.

It's hard to have a dialogue of any sort between Serbs and Albanians when Albanians simply make up history and facts to prove their points. How pathetic!

The Kosovo Trade Ministry has made itself a laughing stock with this.

Adriano: Go and read a book yourself. You clearly have no concept of the history around you. You call people sheep, but you're about as informed as a newt.

If the albanians here could provide some evidence that their great culture built these churches, please???

Does anybody have pictures of churches in Albania proper that are similar to those in Kosovo? But more specifically, of ones that were not built by a Serb or Greek dynasty, or placed as an appeasement by the Turks.

One may come to the conclusion, then, that they've got "Serb-envy." They want to be so much like Serbs, that they moved into Serbia, and are now claiming their cultural heritage. :)

Very interesting!

Next it can be proven that Adam was Albanian, and the world belonged to Albanians, but after the Fall of Albanians, they were confined to Dardillia.... World history a la Kosova scholars. The world was Albanian once, and it will be again.

This reminds me of the Taliban in Afghanistan when they blew up centuries old statues that were carved out in the mountain, they were also trying to eradicate history. Pristina are doing the exact same thing.

Funcakes, (I'm still wondering where the name comes from)

The Ahtisaari Plan is optional now? Do you really believe that? The EU, US and other countries wouldn't recognize an independent Kosovo without assurances that it will be fully implemented and your government knows this. Don't try to fool yourself. Without it, Kosovo won't even meet the level of Taiwan style independence.

Afrim,

The Ahtisaari Plan also says that all the Orthodox Churches in Kosovo will remain property of the Serbia Orthodox Church and the Kosovo Government will recognize it. Read up and you will see that in Annex V of the Ahtisaari Plan. I take it you too believe that you will only be required to implement what you like of the Ahtisaari Plan, like Fruitcake.

To Albion, an the rest of Albanians who keep on repeating ''Albanian Catholic Churches converted to Orthodox'' -

You do release that such is an absurd statement, don't you?

You do release that Byzantine architecture is completely different to that of Roman Catholicism, right?

You also understand that 'converting' something, leaves the exterior untouched (look at Hagia Sophia), no?

Therefore, the Orthodox Churches in Kosovo are Serbian Orthodox Byzantine style buildings, which no Albanian saw being built.

Does anybody remember the 'Bosnian Pyramids?'

The comment from KS is interesting. There are also a few comments above with similar overtones; that by proclaiming yourself a victor, you are granted the right to represent history the way you choose, despite the lack of a factual basis, just as long as it is self-serving, of course.

Does this mean that if, just a hypothetical example, China takes over Russia, it can declare that the Moscow Kremlin is a fine example of Sino-architecture?

For a third party observer, this represents a clear, and probably comical, vulgarity of historical fact. I couldn't imagine, for example, a Frenchman actually agreeing that the Kremlin is Chinese.

We can go a step further, and instead look at the case of the Americas. The Europeans started slowly moving into the New World. 'White man' populations started to grow fast, and something needed to be done to claim land from the Native Americans. Eventually, most tribes disappeared (many history books will describe how this happened in gory detail), and those who survived were rounded up and placed in 'enclaves' known as Territories. We all know what that looks like now. So, can a third-generation German-american claim that the totem pole is a fine example of Germano-artistry?

This sad example shows that before they get supervised independence, Kosovo Albanian elite should first get supervised education or supervised mental health support.

I guess that living with the fact that Kosovo Albanians have no culture of their own forced them to resort to pathetic theft of Serbian history.

Only someone who has no concept of history can write of "Byzantine Albanian". It is like saying Zapotec Albanian culture.

History is not a tractor, combine or apartment to be stolen easily. Hundreds of libraries, from Tehran to Calgary have medieval maps, manuscripts with the evidence of theft. It is like driving a stolen car with the ownership papers of the real owner, and hoping not to be caught.

What Albanians plan to do about it? To burn down all libraries with historical documents, like they burned churches in Kosovo?

It is even more sad to read here on B92 people posing as Albanians actually approve of this madness.
Perhaps they are not Albanians at all, but use this opportunity to embarrass all Albanians. So, a question for REAL Albanians on this site:

If the churches are indeed Albanian, why your extremists have destroyed or desecrated 95% of them? If they are not, are you ashamed of Kosovo Ministry attempting to steal them? Are you ashamed of your clansmen who brazenly claim the churches are Albanian?

If this is too difficult, auxiliary question: If you hate Serbs so much to always write Serb with a small letter instead with capital S as English language and civility requires, why you have named a square after Serb nobleman in the center of Pristina and put a monument on it?

It does not make sense, like Albania and Kosovo having a coat of Arms belonging to Serb medieval nobleman.
Anyone familiar with heraldic rules will laugh at this Albanian appropriation. (Actually, it was Austrians who played this joke on unsuspecting Shqiptars.)

The really frightening thing I have read here is "you can have your history we can have ours", meaning that Kosovo Albanians can create their history by stealing Serbian history and represent it as their own.

Why stop with Serbian history?
We can learn of Albanian Acropolis, Albanian Sparta, Albanian Colosseum, Albanian Louvre, anything Albanian heart desire.

Jovan, you are more childish than you think about yourself.
It sounds like your serbian propaganda have made you so wise to not even exapt your neighbours culture with your ironic jokes. Just remember You Are still the slav that his ancestors had to cross the danube to come to the balkans. It was propobly your ancestors that claimed todays northern albania as the holy site of serbia in 1913 for a piece of the adriatic, you claim cosovo today for the mines and the triangle to macedonia.
Go look at your own history before you try to break down others. Start with the Sorbs in Lusatia and how much before they lived than the serbs of today's belgrade. It must of been from the north.
To b92 i do not tend to discriminate in any side but denial its a devise for uneducated sheep.

"The site added that white bears lived on the mountain, though this has since been changed. "

LOL

The Kosovo Trade Ministry has made itself a laughing stock with this.

Oh...seems like the Trade Ministry is reversing the damaging effects of Serb propaganda.

They have my full support!

belokapac,

Now my heart beleed heavily because you dislike my comments :))))

And tell me one good reason why would I reveal the meaning of my nickname?

whats next are we going to change kosovo to eastern
Albania ?

Istref,

I am an American by birth. My parents are American by birth. My grandparents are American by birth. See the picture here? I am an American who has the freedom to express his views regardless of whether you like them or not. I know Albanian culture is very intolerant of alternative opinions, but in my country, we respect that right. My views are very American. Haven’t you see the conservative politicians and Hollywood actors who are coming out against Kosovo’s independence? Are they not Americans also? And my passport is my birth right. I’m not a refugee who came to the US and bought it. I served my country and worked for it. It is more than your “travel document”. You are right about one thing. I am not an eagle. Good catch.

As far as the real arguments here, the reason your car is searched is because we don’t trust you. After the war in ’99 and the riots in ’04, you proved that you cannot be trusted to protect your Serbian neighbors. That is the reason you will receive “supervised” independence. You need to prove that you will respect human rights. And don’t think that supervised independence can’t be turned around. Ask Taiwan.

KS, the war was between NATO and Yugoslavia, not Kosovo. I know you might want to think the KLA helped win it, but they were too busy hiding in Albania when NATO was bombing. It is funny, though, because the KLA was marching back into Pristina and all these towns like they were the victors after the war. The KLA had nothing to do with Serbian troops leaving Kosovo.

I said this once before, that some of the churches in Kosova were transformed from Catholic ones to Orthodox.
Soon we will find out when scientificly will be prooved.
And its about time that the Kosova regions gain back their real toponyms, in Albanian language.
Serbs just like the Greeks did claim a lot of histry that does not belong to them.
Remember after the death of mother Teresa, macedonians tried to steel her, they went to Rome and asked if they could built her a statue in the name of the Macedonian government claiming she was Macedonian. Thank god the Italians did not fall for that after the we Albanians protested that idiotic claim.

That is why you are getting "supervised independence" and not out right independence. We know we can't trust you further than we can throw you and won't trust you enough to turn our backs. Your PM, your political leaders, and your Parliament already said that they will enact the Ahtisaari. I hope you will believe it when you see your beloved red flag with the two headed eagle come down and the new multi-ethnic flag go up. You may not personally implement the Ahtisaari plan, but your government will. And seeing as you are the US's lap dog, I'm sure you will listen when we tell you that you can either implement and keep it, or you are on your own FOREVER.

First of all,No matter what we learned in history reality in the ground is different. Secondlly, even if they are orthodox monastires, Albanians protected them from time to time. I grew up in Deqan, i visited monastiry every day when i was growing up, i walked every day there because i lived just 1 km from it. Eventhough we were having all this problems with serbians all the time, I never heard my parents or anybody else talking bad about monastires or talking about destroing them. Belive me if we wanted, we could of done it anytime. The problem is the way you see Albanians in Kosova. Yes majority there are muslim , but people there are secular because our heritage has to do nothing with any of those religions, we were Pagans and converted to Catholics, and from Catholics to Muslims. This was only way to survive all those empires who came and left. Such as, Roman, Othoman ,and Serbian empires. That shows how secular we are ,but fortunately for us and not for others who came and left we keept the language. Unfortunately it's not just you who think like this, the most of the world thinks the same because of propaganda. KFOR troops and UN mision in Kosove they are paranoid about those monastires, Italian troops are everywhere sorrounding Deqan monastire, the placed i walked everyday and i had the best time in my life, no i cant visit, or when i visited i had to wait on line for two hours and show all my documents, and they controlled the car like i am form Afganistan not from Deqan, and you cant walk there. All i want to say is that those misconception not just hurted us in the past ,but they are still hurting us. Serbians should be the first nation in the world to exept us because by exepting us they are gonna be able to enjoy and keep alive those monastires.Otherwise, I have no idea what is gonna happened because people ther e are so frustrated.We never fought against your culture or your monastires, we fought against regime and his followers. We are glad we have all this monastires because thats the best way we can show the children in the future and the world how tolerant we were and we are. Finally, for "American Eagle" i found disgousting reading your comment you are not American nor Eagle, and you dont represent the American spirit ,and American view, maybe you have a USA passsport, but thats just a document.

John,

Can you provide a link to a map demonstrating your assertions?

I would really like a geography lesson.

Thanks!

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! what a joke, I didn't know it was April yet.

' Stealing history? This is one of the most pathetic things I've seen coming out of this region.
(Mike, 3 February 2008 14:04)'

You don't need pictures to verify the age of a building. Many of these churches had been burned down/destroyed and then rebuild and converted into orthodox ones. Obviously YOU can't tell that because you'd need a blue-ray to play it on your playstation but other people can verify newer walls built on top of much older ones, etc. Usually the top half of the building is of a different age from the bottom half.

Albion - the last time I checked, Mother Teresa was born in Skopje. Skopje is in Makedonija. My folks were born in Makedonija but I was born in Australia. Technically, I'm an Aussi. Technically, Mother Teresa is Macedonian. No?

Frank, Pyramids of Gizeh were not built by Arabs although they represent more than 90% population of Egypt today. Hagia Sophia was not built by Turks, although they are more than 90% of population of Istanbul today. Anyone claiming otherwise would be ridiculed. That's kind of logic you apply to Serbian churches in Kosovo. The only link Kosovo Albanians have to Serbian churches is their destruction. Kosovo Albanians are not autochtonousd population not even in Albania, let alone in Kosovo. This is a perfect example of conquest by birthrate and expulsion of original inhabitants.

For genius above, toponym Gjakove is bastardized version of Serbian name Djakovica found on ancient maps under this name.

The entire Albania and Kosovo are dotted with Serbian toponyms and hydronums. It is established fact throughout the world that invaders bastardize found toponyms and hydronyms, not vice versa.

The Albanian hoax about being autochtonous population of Ksoovo can be seen from the very names they use for rivers and places, hence the birth of Dardania and other sad attempts.

Rovena,

I have seen and entered Decani monestary and it is not a Catholic architecture, let alone 'typical'.

What Catholic Architecture have you seen, if any?
Go to Barcelona, Rome and Paris to see what a catholic architecture looks like. Then go to Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and see what Byzantine architecture looks like.

I believe the West, whom Albanians are trying appease by attempting to delete all Serbs from Kosovo, are going to be insulted by this act of historic violence.

Western and Eastern historians are not stupid, and many are not poltically bound.

I get sense of insult when someone from Former Yugoslavia starts chatting to me about Chetniks being Nazi colaborators, when English educational system has thought me that they were finging against the Nazis and that idea that Chetniks were with Nazis is a version of History is accepted only in parts of Former Yugoslavia.

Whenever I hear that, I feel insulted as I feel that someone is trying to bend my opinion, stamp on my historical knowledge to get their agenda across, and assumes that I must be dumb enough to believe it without proper research.
I resent that, regardless who is saying it, Albanians, Serbs, Croats, Montenegrians...

Just because our politicians here are acting like headless chickens with their own agenda, doesn't mean the rest of us have automatically lost our ability to think and forgot all our history.

That applies here as well - I don't know if I should feel insulted or scared that Albanians are trying to teach us history.

Mike said:

'Just one more question to the Albanian intellectuals here:

How are you going to "scientifically prove" that Serbian churches were once Albanian?

Albanians do not need to prove anything. What you are getting from the minister is the Albanian version of history; how we see it. This is not a revision of history as suggested here, this IS history, our history. You are free to keep yours.

well it makes sense to me that albanians builded those churches since over 90% of populations are albanians.
and they deserve to call the mountains in their language as well.
(frank white, 4 February 2008 09:18)

Well that is a bit like saying Ephesus was built by the Turks because Turks make up 99% of Turkey's population.

As I said before re-writing history just because you don't like the real origins will attract a certain amount of deserved ridicule.

Well done!
I think this is not serbias matter.We can call our churches however we want.And i think that at least the local name of Kosova should be the original illyro-Albanian one of Dardhania.

For a century, Serbs have had the convenience to recite history and call places to their liking, all the while Albanians retaining their own view of their own heritage and Albanian place-names.
For you amateurs, the primary group in power chooses how it wants the world to recite its history and place names under its own jurisdiction.
It seems like the many wrong are being corrected, but this is only a start.

Mike says
“This is just all the more reason for the EU to come in and take over the education system”.

Ok fair comment from you perspective.

I think the EU should take over the Serbian education system as well, to prevent young Serbs being poisoned with propaganda and hatred against its neighbours?

Most of the recent historical discoveries are revealing the truth about Albanians' history. While the truth is getting more and more obivous, the Serbs are running of lies and excuses and their way of trying to defence their "Kosovo Metohija" history.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes"

I'm a practicing Architect in Chicago, received my B.S and March in architecture. My thesis was on Balkan architecture and I studied some of the monasteries listed above. It would be usless for me to argue with anybody here since from the comments I can only conclude that you do not have any idea about architecture and its history. I think you should first of all find out who the churches were built for, when they were built and by who. Who was on the land when they were built will pretty much tell you whos they are. So quit making up little fairy tales about this. These are Serbian Churches built by Serbs and no architecture historian or any scholar will prove it otherwise with enough education and historical background.

American Eagle,

My name comes from the hilarious stuff that I hear from the Serbs in this board.

And as far ss the AP being optional, well, show me where it says they have to follow it bit by bit? What's the higher authority that LEGALLY demands it? And show me where it says the words FOREVER.

Besides, that's not even the point. If "Sar Mountain" is actually part of the Albanian Alps, then the Kosovar govt will revert it back to the Albanian Alps.

Of course Yugoslavia wouldn't wanna call them Albanian Alps...they didn't want anything Albanian in their quest to serbify Kosovo.

Everyone should expect alot of names to be reverted back to their Albanian roots. If the Serb gov't has lied to it's people by calling Albanian monuments Serb and used it as the "cradle of civilization" excuse, well...people will be in for a reality check.

bmrusila, I dislike all of your comments, but I did'n send this comment to tell you that. What I want to know is: what the hell means your nick: bmrusila?

Who on earth would want to visit Kosovo now anyway? There are water shortages in the summer and virtually no electric in the winter – especially if you are living in a Serb enclave. The only reason to visit Kosovo would be to see the wonderful Orthodox Churches and Monasteries – those that are left that is. The place is still pretty dangerous unless you are a well armed KFOR type!

>> Now Kosovo has a sea? Awesome. Please let me know once it acquires a moon

Kosova, in fact has two seas: The Adriatic and Ionian sea, whereas Serbas are landlocked.

As far as renaming: it's going back to how things where. If that is deemed not true by you, how about this: But as the saying goes, " History is written by the winners".

I think the K-Albanians are taking the same advantage Serbs did when they were the commanders. Correct me if I may be wrong...?

Ahtisaari plan?

Oh that's optional now. It didn't pass through UNSC remember? All of it's sets of rules are optional for the Kosovar government at this point.

I think the Serbs are making too much fuss over this. Way too much fuss than is reasonable. As an Albanian I recognize the imprints that the Serbian culture has left in Kosova/o. It would be ridiculous to claim that the Serbs have not affected the culture of Kosova/o in anyway. However it is also ridiculous to claim that at some point in our history prior to the Ottoman Empire there were no Albanian churches in Kosova/o. Anyone who thinks that way is no better than the people he accuses of falsifying history.
Chances are that once Serbia took over Kosova/o some of those churches were also taken over by the Serbian church. I see that as a big possibility. However there are people both Serbs and Albanian who even though they know this to be true cannot make themselves to say it, because somehow that would mean recognizing that the other side had a past in Kosova/o. That is just plain wrong and stupid.
Saying that there were Albanian churches that were at a later time converted into Serbia orthodox churches is not wrong. It doesn't mean that there were also Serbian orthodox churches at that time. It also doesn't mean that either the Albanian or the Serbian churches were built before. It just mean that at some point in history both existed. Its just a fact, Albanians in Kosova/o were Catholics and Orthodx before they were muslim and as such they had to have their ow churches. As a result I don't see why there is such a fuss about churches.

As when it comes to names of places, again to much fuss over nothing. Albanians know a certain mountain by a name and Serbs by another name. So what? What's wrong with that?
Sometime I get the idea that Serbs get agitated over nothing and always ready to pick a fight over nothing.

To the contrary dakovica is a serbian name derived from the albanian one gjakova (means blood) the same is true for nish called nassius, not to forget Dardania which has no relation to slavic culture.
(Eagle, 4 February 2008 17:13)

Ha Ha Ha. LOL
Thanks Eagle. I haven't laughed this hard for weeks.

Thank you, ben, for proving my point that Albanians are intolerant people who can't stand differences of opinions. I'm not sure that you would really want all the people, Americans included, who don't support your view to LEAVE (not live) Kosovo. KFOR might be a bit empty.

The winners write history; since Serbia or "yugoslavia" lost the war with Kosova in 1999 that makes US (Kosova or NATO) the winners.

To the contrary dakovica is a serbian name derived from the albanian one gjakova (means blood) the same is true for nish called nassius, not to forget Dardania which has no relation to slavic culture.

well it makes sense to me that albanians builded those churches since over 90% of populations are albanians.
and they deserve to call the mountains in their language as well.

BKK, I don't want to enter in the discussion for I believe that manipulation is in both sides. Just wanted to tell you this; have you ever seen the monastery of Decan? Architecturely talking it seems to be catholic an visibly nothing to do with the architecture of the other serbian monasteries.There are always arguments that one can bring in defence of his thesis; but the truth is that in the past centuries the people used to work together much more then they do now and that's it. I don't believe that not a single albanian or a single serb have put a brick in the respective cultural buildings, so guys just be a little bit more rational and less pathetic all of you because it seems a forum of little kids that say: oh my father is bigger than yours!!!

Kiko wrote:"If there are albanians that will get upset just look at what year your Universities opened compared to the rest of your Balkan neighbors".

You are absolutely right! But elaborate is batter/further- what happened to this UNI in 1981 (halved, as a presure by Serbia)? And who closed it in 1989 (Serbia)? now you have this society in Kosova who is practically now educating herself that is from 1999- after the freedom.

Now the question is: should we go back (prior to 1999) or move forward (independence).

I am for the second since it is the only real option that will guarantee progress for kosovars- Serbia never did, actually was impeding it. and you/others?

Challenge to the Serbian commentators what is the meaning of Gjakove/Gjakova in your language?... Nothing. Albanian culture is part of that region.

To Spunky
"the refugees are Albanians as per the clothes they are wearing."
Clothing, dialect, and culture are mixed, and very regional in the Balkans.

As far as your in depth research goes, do a Google on Seoba Srba, and maybe you'll learn something..
You make me laugh..

Perhaps the Dardania Ministry will take this into account when updating the history books..

ReRead BKK's statements about people's intolerance..

If the single minded Albanians and Serbs don't realize that there's a shared history in Kosovo, then your ALL living a lie...

Macedonia never claimed Mother Teresa as Macedonian; they simply wanted to honour her as a citizen by birth, of Skopje. And Shar Planina is Macedonia, for God's sake! This is what happens when a quasi state is allowed to form for all the wrong reasons ie; a falsified history must be conjured up out of thin air to justify itself. This follows Greece's example with Aegean Macedonia. Interesting that both Greece ( 1820's) and Albania (early 20th century) are recently created nations by Western interlopers
for political reasons.

there is no denying there are serb churches in kosova but time for real history lesson

those accusing trying to steal serbian heritage? thank you very much but we never wanted it and never will.

The name of teh place where my family is originally is called New Serbians- and there has not been seen any Serb living there- ever...

The people that live in the mountain of Sar are 99% Albanian and the mountain is part of Albanian Alps. It was the Serbian chauvinism that called them Sar and now is time to change it. The name of the mountain is the name how the people that forever have lived there are calling/ naming it.

By the way didn’t you Serbs claimed that Albanians came in Kosova from Albania that is from the Alps- and now you want Alps as well??? Bizarre don’t you think?

Albanians were part of the Byzantium Empire and the northern border was the river Danub. The slavs when they were stronger they were penetrating into south. It was the Byzantium that teached you to read and write (Cyril and Methodius) and they were send to north to Christianize you. Kosova was one of the places were you were civilized. Southern Serbia (Nis) was Albanian- it was ethnically cleansed on 1913 and finished by Tito in the ’50-.

Until now the only one that were writing the history were SERBS.

The only new thing that comes here is: that Albanians were not heard for to long because we were occupied- nad now our voice will be stronger every day.
We need the Independence- to protect and cultivate our culture and not to allow to none to still from it anymore.

American Eagle: “I am an American who has the freedom to express his views”

well you are free to live Kosova as well, since you don’t accept the will of the kosovras and deny their autochthonism in Kosova.

Then why are you trying to steal it?

"In his talk to Sejdiu, the Vatican revealed, Pope Benedict made a pointed reminder that Kosovo is a land "where Christianity has been present since the first centuries of our era." The Christian minority in the predominantly Muslim province-- and particularly the Orthodox of the ethnic Serbian population-- have been the objects of intimidation and violence since the warfare that rocked the province in the 1990s.
(Boba Borojevic, 5 February 2008 03:06) "


If we are to talk about Churches lets talk about the fact that there were places of worship prior to the slavic invasions during the 6th-7th Centuries.

There were ppl in Kosovo/a prior to the Serbs comming, during their co habitation, and even after they leave (as so many CHOSE to do when the Milosevic army left---You can watch enough video showing the majority 200k leaving with the pullout of the army and they were NOT driven out by force or by Albanians---but by their own FREE WILL).

All I see is that there are two sides bickering over place names or sites. Neither side wants to admit that prior to the invention of NATIONALISM the people of the region lived in peace (relative to the time or era and what its definition was at that time).

Albanians and Serbs lived next to each other for centuries.

If we were to squable over names lets go back to the roman or greek maps and rename cities places etc.. by their names of antiquity.

This way all anger and hate towards albanians would be quashed and then we can move on.

HISTORY is a lie! Its never precise or scientific. Its a writers version of an event in time. Take 100 ppl and give them a pen and each would write a different version of how the same event occured.

Now add NATIONALISM to the mix. And you can see how History is changed to suit its writers or a ppl of a nation.

Now add COMMUNISM to the mix, and now you have a more distorted view of History to suit the propaganda of that regime.

And now you have today!

Even if we tried to get to the bottom of the event that occured in the past its going to take a lot of RESEARCH, MONEY, and for POLITICIANS to stay out of the scholars way. (Example: the Yugoslavian Encyclopedia where it was politicized and not left to scholars to determine its content.)

There is going to be a period of much debate, but all here are not qualified, nor are they mature enough to have a debate where emotions are left to the side and out of the discussion.

One advantage is that Serbs are more educated and wrote their history, while Albanians past their history onwards through Folklore; and songs. Albanians are just beggining to educate themselves with UNIVERSITY degrees, BA;BS;MA;PHd's. And not I'm not saying that Albanians are ignorant or stupid.

If there are albanians that will get upset just look at what year your Universities opened compared to the rest of your Balkan neighbors.

Now there is a note to Serbs that the reason for their late admission to Higher Education is partially your BLAME and the OTTOMAN EMPIRE. Which had a policy of banning education in Albanian or dissallowing Albanians to speak their own language. This policy was enforced by the latter then by Serbia from the 1800's onwards.

So the serbs have a leg up on written material, doesn't mean that whatever is written is 100% unequivacally true to the letter. Also past Historians could be WRONG!

And a great example is SCIENCE! Science changes as more info is gained by scholars. And theories, laws, hypothesis, and ideas change and are re-evaluated based on new discoveries and people looking at things with a clearer perspective and NOT ONE TAINTED BY HATE, RELIGION, ETHNICITY, COMMUNISM, OR NATIONALISM.

Peace to all.......

P.S. I think that the names will be re-evaluated so as not to encite hate or friction amongst the citizens of Kosovo/a.

I simply can't believe what this dissension is all about!!!

Maybe we should mention that majority (not all) Slavs from Kosovo came from the lands of Bulgaria back in the 10 century. Well before Serbia took it in the 13th century. It was during Tzar Samuil reign and Boris that many Slavs fromt the south migrated to Kosovo area. Listen to some of the dialects from southeastern Kosovo Serbs that are 90yrs old, and you will see the connection of the Torlak dialect with BugaroMacedonian. True Serbs are from Herzcegovina, Raska and Zeta; all which all Catholic architecture.

I am sure 99% of the posters have never set a foot on the Decan monasiry nor in Peja patriarchy. yet they comment like they now a lot about history. I have been many many times inside the monastiry in Decan. READ THIS CAREFULLY. Inside the church on the ceiling there is a painting dating back several hundred years depicting frefugees on the move. the mass of the refugees is being led by an orthodox preist mounted on a horse and a bunch of orthodox monks following. behind the above-mentioned there is a vast area filled with refugees following them. the interesting part is that all of the refugees are Albanians as per the clothes they are wearing. The serbian propaganda never talks about these facts that are there for people to see. this painting was painted by a serb hundred of years ago. this to me and i am sure to many bias historians constitutes that Albanians are true owners of Kosovo. Serbs are just immigrants to the new world where they chose a settlement to establish their. country i guess!. I just thought i mention this. please feel free to check up on this . i am not making it up.
cheers spunky

"American Eagle"

You are right we are not tolerant, you know when we are not tolerant, when others lie, or try to manipulate us. When you cuoted my story about KFOR and how they searched and treated me. What did you mean by us? Who do you think you are? You can give your opinion and talk about your self, but not more than that because you dont have right to talk for others. First of all, you have no idea whats happened in Kosove for now almost 30 years. Next, I live in d.c area and if you want to know more about me we can met and talk more about politics, freedom and democracy in the world.Finally, people in Kosove fought for freedom and their rights, nothing more, and if you are an American you should read more. Moreover, I have been there and here and anywhere when people fight for freedom, and not just Kosova ,but any nation, or etnitity in the world should have right for Indipendence and Freedom, because is a right we are born with and should never be taken from us, unless we harm others. If you dont know how to read it's ok, you can just open your box and think out of that box, and you will understand Freedom and Individual rights, and dont be a cynic, because you seems a smart guy and vote for OBAMA tomorrow if you are a real American.

Hey Paul,

Read a history book. The Serbs were first given Thessalonika.

Cheers.

If you visit the website of the serbian government, you can see that it is FULL OF HATE against the albanians.
As for the churches, it is true that some of the orthodox churches were catholic churches before but then they were changed into orthodox ones. This can be proved by science.
There was a group of scientists from Western Europe looking into this matter but because of the sensitive times, they stopped publishing their information for a while until Kosova becomes independent which will of course happen in the next 10-15 days.
I am not trying to bring propaganda with this comment but this is the truth.
Thanks.

Well done!
I think this is not serbias matter.We can call our churches however we want.And i think that at least the local name of Kosova should be the original illyro-Albanian one of Dardhania.

I said this once before, that some of the churches in Kosova were transformed from Catholic ones to Orthodox.
Soon we will find out when scientificly will be prooved.
And its about time that the Kosova regions gain back their real toponyms, in Albanian language.
Serbs just like the Greeks did claim a lot of histry that does not belong to them.
Remember after the death of mother Teresa, macedonians tried to steel her, they went to Rome and asked if they could built her a statue in the name of the Macedonian government claiming she was Macedonian. Thank god the Italians did not fall for that after the we Albanians protested that idiotic claim.

Jovan, you are more childish than you think about yourself.
It sounds like your serbian propaganda have made you so wise to not even exapt your neighbours culture with your ironic jokes. Just remember You Are still the slav that his ancestors had to cross the danube to come to the balkans. It was propobly your ancestors that claimed todays northern albania as the holy site of serbia in 1913 for a piece of the adriatic, you claim cosovo today for the mines and the triangle to macedonia.
Go look at your own history before you try to break down others. Start with the Sorbs in Lusatia and how much before they lived than the serbs of today's belgrade. It must of been from the north.
To b92 i do not tend to discriminate in any side but denial its a devise for uneducated sheep.

American Eagle,

My name comes from the hilarious stuff that I hear from the Serbs in this board.

And as far ss the AP being optional, well, show me where it says they have to follow it bit by bit? What's the higher authority that LEGALLY demands it? And show me where it says the words FOREVER.

Besides, that's not even the point. If "Sar Mountain" is actually part of the Albanian Alps, then the Kosovar govt will revert it back to the Albanian Alps.

Of course Yugoslavia wouldn't wanna call them Albanian Alps...they didn't want anything Albanian in their quest to serbify Kosovo.

Everyone should expect alot of names to be reverted back to their Albanian roots. If the Serb gov't has lied to it's people by calling Albanian monuments Serb and used it as the "cradle of civilization" excuse, well...people will be in for a reality check.

Oh...seems like the Trade Ministry is reversing the damaging effects of Serb propaganda.

They have my full support!

Mike said:

'Just one more question to the Albanian intellectuals here:

How are you going to "scientifically prove" that Serbian churches were once Albanian?

Albanians do not need to prove anything. What you are getting from the minister is the Albanian version of history; how we see it. This is not a revision of history as suggested here, this IS history, our history. You are free to keep yours.

First of all,No matter what we learned in history reality in the ground is different. Secondlly, even if they are orthodox monastires, Albanians protected them from time to time. I grew up in Deqan, i visited monastiry every day when i was growing up, i walked every day there because i lived just 1 km from it. Eventhough we were having all this problems with serbians all the time, I never heard my parents or anybody else talking bad about monastires or talking about destroing them. Belive me if we wanted, we could of done it anytime. The problem is the way you see Albanians in Kosova. Yes majority there are muslim , but people there are secular because our heritage has to do nothing with any of those religions, we were Pagans and converted to Catholics, and from Catholics to Muslims. This was only way to survive all those empires who came and left. Such as, Roman, Othoman ,and Serbian empires. That shows how secular we are ,but fortunately for us and not for others who came and left we keept the language. Unfortunately it's not just you who think like this, the most of the world thinks the same because of propaganda. KFOR troops and UN mision in Kosove they are paranoid about those monastires, Italian troops are everywhere sorrounding Deqan monastire, the placed i walked everyday and i had the best time in my life, no i cant visit, or when i visited i had to wait on line for two hours and show all my documents, and they controlled the car like i am form Afganistan not from Deqan, and you cant walk there. All i want to say is that those misconception not just hurted us in the past ,but they are still hurting us. Serbians should be the first nation in the world to exept us because by exepting us they are gonna be able to enjoy and keep alive those monastires.Otherwise, I have no idea what is gonna happened because people ther e are so frustrated.We never fought against your culture or your monastires, we fought against regime and his followers. We are glad we have all this monastires because thats the best way we can show the children in the future and the world how tolerant we were and we are. Finally, for "American Eagle" i found disgousting reading your comment you are not American nor Eagle, and you dont represent the American spirit ,and American view, maybe you have a USA passsport, but thats just a document.

>> Now Kosovo has a sea? Awesome. Please let me know once it acquires a moon

Kosova, in fact has two seas: The Adriatic and Ionian sea, whereas Serbas are landlocked.

As far as renaming: it's going back to how things where. If that is deemed not true by you, how about this: But as the saying goes, " History is written by the winners".

' Stealing history? This is one of the most pathetic things I've seen coming out of this region.
(Mike, 3 February 2008 14:04)'

You don't need pictures to verify the age of a building. Many of these churches had been burned down/destroyed and then rebuild and converted into orthodox ones. Obviously YOU can't tell that because you'd need a blue-ray to play it on your playstation but other people can verify newer walls built on top of much older ones, etc. Usually the top half of the building is of a different age from the bottom half.

For a century, Serbs have had the convenience to recite history and call places to their liking, all the while Albanians retaining their own view of their own heritage and Albanian place-names.
For you amateurs, the primary group in power chooses how it wants the world to recite its history and place names under its own jurisdiction.
It seems like the many wrong are being corrected, but this is only a start.

The winners write history; since Serbia or "yugoslavia" lost the war with Kosova in 1999 that makes US (Kosova or NATO) the winners.

Mike says
“This is just all the more reason for the EU to come in and take over the education system”.

Ok fair comment from you perspective.

I think the EU should take over the Serbian education system as well, to prevent young Serbs being poisoned with propaganda and hatred against its neighbours?

Ahtisaari plan?

Oh that's optional now. It didn't pass through UNSC remember? All of it's sets of rules are optional for the Kosovar government at this point.

bmrusila, I dislike all of your comments, but I did'n send this comment to tell you that. What I want to know is: what the hell means your nick: bmrusila?

I think the Serbs are making too much fuss over this. Way too much fuss than is reasonable. As an Albanian I recognize the imprints that the Serbian culture has left in Kosova/o. It would be ridiculous to claim that the Serbs have not affected the culture of Kosova/o in anyway. However it is also ridiculous to claim that at some point in our history prior to the Ottoman Empire there were no Albanian churches in Kosova/o. Anyone who thinks that way is no better than the people he accuses of falsifying history.
Chances are that once Serbia took over Kosova/o some of those churches were also taken over by the Serbian church. I see that as a big possibility. However there are people both Serbs and Albanian who even though they know this to be true cannot make themselves to say it, because somehow that would mean recognizing that the other side had a past in Kosova/o. That is just plain wrong and stupid.
Saying that there were Albanian churches that were at a later time converted into Serbia orthodox churches is not wrong. It doesn't mean that there were also Serbian orthodox churches at that time. It also doesn't mean that either the Albanian or the Serbian churches were built before. It just mean that at some point in history both existed. Its just a fact, Albanians in Kosova/o were Catholics and Orthodx before they were muslim and as such they had to have their ow churches. As a result I don't see why there is such a fuss about churches.

As when it comes to names of places, again to much fuss over nothing. Albanians know a certain mountain by a name and Serbs by another name. So what? What's wrong with that?
Sometime I get the idea that Serbs get agitated over nothing and always ready to pick a fight over nothing.

Most of the recent historical discoveries are revealing the truth about Albanians' history. While the truth is getting more and more obivous, the Serbs are running of lies and excuses and their way of trying to defence their "Kosovo Metohija" history.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes"

I think the K-Albanians are taking the same advantage Serbs did when they were the commanders. Correct me if I may be wrong...?

well it makes sense to me that albanians builded those churches since over 90% of populations are albanians.
and they deserve to call the mountains in their language as well.

Challenge to the Serbian commentators what is the meaning of Gjakove/Gjakova in your language?... Nothing. Albanian culture is part of that region.

The name of teh place where my family is originally is called New Serbians- and there has not been seen any Serb living there- ever...

The people that live in the mountain of Sar are 99% Albanian and the mountain is part of Albanian Alps. It was the Serbian chauvinism that called them Sar and now is time to change it. The name of the mountain is the name how the people that forever have lived there are calling/ naming it.

By the way didn’t you Serbs claimed that Albanians came in Kosova from Albania that is from the Alps- and now you want Alps as well??? Bizarre don’t you think?

Albanians were part of the Byzantium Empire and the northern border was the river Danub. The slavs when they were stronger they were penetrating into south. It was the Byzantium that teached you to read and write (Cyril and Methodius) and they were send to north to Christianize you. Kosova was one of the places were you were civilized. Southern Serbia (Nis) was Albanian- it was ethnically cleansed on 1913 and finished by Tito in the ’50-.

Until now the only one that were writing the history were SERBS.

The only new thing that comes here is: that Albanians were not heard for to long because we were occupied- nad now our voice will be stronger every day.
We need the Independence- to protect and cultivate our culture and not to allow to none to still from it anymore.

American Eagle: “I am an American who has the freedom to express his views”

well you are free to live Kosova as well, since you don’t accept the will of the kosovras and deny their autochthonism in Kosova.

there is no denying there are serb churches in kosova but time for real history lesson

those accusing trying to steal serbian heritage? thank you very much but we never wanted it and never will.

Next it can be proven that Adam was Albanian, and the world belonged to Albanians, but after the Fall of Albanians, they were confined to Dardillia.... World history a la Kosova scholars. The world was Albanian once, and it will be again.

I am sure 99% of the posters have never set a foot on the Decan monasiry nor in Peja patriarchy. yet they comment like they now a lot about history. I have been many many times inside the monastiry in Decan. READ THIS CAREFULLY. Inside the church on the ceiling there is a painting dating back several hundred years depicting frefugees on the move. the mass of the refugees is being led by an orthodox preist mounted on a horse and a bunch of orthodox monks following. behind the above-mentioned there is a vast area filled with refugees following them. the interesting part is that all of the refugees are Albanians as per the clothes they are wearing. The serbian propaganda never talks about these facts that are there for people to see. this painting was painted by a serb hundred of years ago. this to me and i am sure to many bias historians constitutes that Albanians are true owners of Kosovo. Serbs are just immigrants to the new world where they chose a settlement to establish their. country i guess!. I just thought i mention this. please feel free to check up on this . i am not making it up.
cheers spunky

How absurd.

To the contrary dakovica is a serbian name derived from the albanian one gjakova (means blood) the same is true for nish called nassius, not to forget Dardania which has no relation to slavic culture.

- this is an example of the future of a supervised dependence would create.

The reality of the rhetorhic espoused by the Eurocrats will be just as remote from reality as exemplified by the rhetoric espoused under the same technocrats that have created the disater and failure of the past 8 years!

Quick reminder of a Chinese proverb that Bush could not say properly;

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

- The shame is now on the technocrats who have created this failure and Serbia and the world need not listen to such folly again. Its clear that the rhetoric they espouse is a shameful lie and will never be implemented by the ethnic Albanians who clearly have shown do not wish to take heed of the Technocratic babble and clearly plan on eradicating all existance of non-Albanian culture, history and peoples if they take control - did anyone mention the true meaning of Genocide???

Adriano: Go and read a book yourself. You clearly have no concept of the history around you. You call people sheep, but you're about as informed as a newt.

If the albanians here could provide some evidence that their great culture built these churches, please???

Does anybody have pictures of churches in Albania proper that are similar to those in Kosovo? But more specifically, of ones that were not built by a Serb or Greek dynasty, or placed as an appeasement by the Turks.

One may come to the conclusion, then, that they've got "Serb-envy." They want to be so much like Serbs, that they moved into Serbia, and are now claiming their cultural heritage. :)

Very interesting!

BKK, I don't want to enter in the discussion for I believe that manipulation is in both sides. Just wanted to tell you this; have you ever seen the monastery of Decan? Architecturely talking it seems to be catholic an visibly nothing to do with the architecture of the other serbian monasteries.There are always arguments that one can bring in defence of his thesis; but the truth is that in the past centuries the people used to work together much more then they do now and that's it. I don't believe that not a single albanian or a single serb have put a brick in the respective cultural buildings, so guys just be a little bit more rational and less pathetic all of you because it seems a forum of little kids that say: oh my father is bigger than yours!!!

I am astonished by this. Not content to simply burn down the Orthodox churches, the K-Albanians are now embarking on a programme of "historical revisionism". A compaign of cultural vandalism has now been stepped up a gear to cultural cleansing.

This has been tried before in other parts of the world and has failed, because the people who attempt it cannot overcome the ultimate obstacle - the truth.

since they have no significance in the history of that serbian province...it´s more than understandable that they are forced to falsify and hide the truth behind veils...

does anybody really wonder about that?

as the scientist has said it: there is not any link to the Albanians..

and in science, things are embedded.

that means, you can present things the way you like it, but who really cares?

"albanian-byzantine"... ts ts ts... the best joke is, that you even believe in those stories!

whats next are we going to change kosovo to eastern
Albania ?

"Kosova, in fact has two seas: The Adriatic and Ionian sea, whereas Serbas are landlocked."

Um, John......

Here's a map of Kosovo:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/kosovo_pol98.jpg

Show me where the Adriatic and the Ionian seas border Kosovo.

You didn't perhaps contribute to the writing of this website in question, did you? Your comments follow the same train of logic.

Albion - the last time I checked, Mother Teresa was born in Skopje. Skopje is in Makedonija. My folks were born in Makedonija but I was born in Australia. Technically, I'm an Aussi. Technically, Mother Teresa is Macedonian. No?

This sad example shows that before they get supervised independence, Kosovo Albanian elite should first get supervised education or supervised mental health support.

I guess that living with the fact that Kosovo Albanians have no culture of their own forced them to resort to pathetic theft of Serbian history.

Only someone who has no concept of history can write of "Byzantine Albanian". It is like saying Zapotec Albanian culture.

History is not a tractor, combine or apartment to be stolen easily. Hundreds of libraries, from Tehran to Calgary have medieval maps, manuscripts with the evidence of theft. It is like driving a stolen car with the ownership papers of the real owner, and hoping not to be caught.

What Albanians plan to do about it? To burn down all libraries with historical documents, like they burned churches in Kosovo?

It is even more sad to read here on B92 people posing as Albanians actually approve of this madness.
Perhaps they are not Albanians at all, but use this opportunity to embarrass all Albanians. So, a question for REAL Albanians on this site:

If the churches are indeed Albanian, why your extremists have destroyed or desecrated 95% of them? If they are not, are you ashamed of Kosovo Ministry attempting to steal them? Are you ashamed of your clansmen who brazenly claim the churches are Albanian?

If this is too difficult, auxiliary question: If you hate Serbs so much to always write Serb with a small letter instead with capital S as English language and civility requires, why you have named a square after Serb nobleman in the center of Pristina and put a monument on it?

It does not make sense, like Albania and Kosovo having a coat of Arms belonging to Serb medieval nobleman.
Anyone familiar with heraldic rules will laugh at this Albanian appropriation. (Actually, it was Austrians who played this joke on unsuspecting Shqiptars.)

The really frightening thing I have read here is "you can have your history we can have ours", meaning that Kosovo Albanians can create their history by stealing Serbian history and represent it as their own.

Why stop with Serbian history?
We can learn of Albanian Acropolis, Albanian Sparta, Albanian Colosseum, Albanian Louvre, anything Albanian heart desire.

Istref,

I am an American by birth. My parents are American by birth. My grandparents are American by birth. See the picture here? I am an American who has the freedom to express his views regardless of whether you like them or not. I know Albanian culture is very intolerant of alternative opinions, but in my country, we respect that right. My views are very American. Haven’t you see the conservative politicians and Hollywood actors who are coming out against Kosovo’s independence? Are they not Americans also? And my passport is my birth right. I’m not a refugee who came to the US and bought it. I served my country and worked for it. It is more than your “travel document”. You are right about one thing. I am not an eagle. Good catch.

As far as the real arguments here, the reason your car is searched is because we don’t trust you. After the war in ’99 and the riots in ’04, you proved that you cannot be trusted to protect your Serbian neighbors. That is the reason you will receive “supervised” independence. You need to prove that you will respect human rights. And don’t think that supervised independence can’t be turned around. Ask Taiwan.

KS, the war was between NATO and Yugoslavia, not Kosovo. I know you might want to think the KLA helped win it, but they were too busy hiding in Albania when NATO was bombing. It is funny, though, because the KLA was marching back into Pristina and all these towns like they were the victors after the war. The KLA had nothing to do with Serbian troops leaving Kosovo.

To the contrary dakovica is a serbian name derived from the albanian one gjakova (means blood) the same is true for nish called nassius, not to forget Dardania which has no relation to slavic culture.
(Eagle, 4 February 2008 17:13)

Ha Ha Ha. LOL
Thanks Eagle. I haven't laughed this hard for weeks.

Maybe we should mention that majority (not all) Slavs from Kosovo came from the lands of Bulgaria back in the 10 century. Well before Serbia took it in the 13th century. It was during Tzar Samuil reign and Boris that many Slavs fromt the south migrated to Kosovo area. Listen to some of the dialects from southeastern Kosovo Serbs that are 90yrs old, and you will see the connection of the Torlak dialect with BugaroMacedonian. True Serbs are from Herzcegovina, Raska and Zeta; all which all Catholic architecture.

Then why are you trying to steal it?

"American Eagle"

You are right we are not tolerant, you know when we are not tolerant, when others lie, or try to manipulate us. When you cuoted my story about KFOR and how they searched and treated me. What did you mean by us? Who do you think you are? You can give your opinion and talk about your self, but not more than that because you dont have right to talk for others. First of all, you have no idea whats happened in Kosove for now almost 30 years. Next, I live in d.c area and if you want to know more about me we can met and talk more about politics, freedom and democracy in the world.Finally, people in Kosove fought for freedom and their rights, nothing more, and if you are an American you should read more. Moreover, I have been there and here and anywhere when people fight for freedom, and not just Kosova ,but any nation, or etnitity in the world should have right for Indipendence and Freedom, because is a right we are born with and should never be taken from us, unless we harm others. If you dont know how to read it's ok, you can just open your box and think out of that box, and you will understand Freedom and Individual rights, and dont be a cynic, because you seems a smart guy and vote for OBAMA tomorrow if you are a real American.

The only thing this can be called is ethnic cleansing and irredentism both sponsored by the EU, US, and those that recognize a unilateral declaration of independence. Supposedly, the Kosovo Government is to respect minority rights and include all in their society, but it is clear this is all just for show. Everyone should have seen this coming when the Education Ministry told all the Gorani, Muslim Slavs, that they couldn’t use Serbian textbooks anymore while the Ahtisaari plan called for local autonomy in municipalities where minorities made the majority. Albanians clearly don’t look forward to a multi-ethnic society. They look forward to revenge.

But we will have to see what the EU has to say about this. The High Representative, or whatever the position is called, has to the right to override the Kosovo Government under the Ahtisaari plan. So we could see those names revert back to their original names.

Ah, it's nice to know Albanian "academics" are working so hard at historical revisionism. If they worked this hard at economics, the land might actually be productive!

Now Kosovo has a sea? Awesome. Please let me know once it acquires a moon.

This is just all the more reason for the EU to come in and take over the education system.

It's hard to have a dialogue of any sort between Serbs and Albanians when Albanians simply make up history and facts to prove their points. How pathetic!

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! what a joke, I didn't know it was April yet.

This reminds me of the Taliban in Afghanistan when they blew up centuries old statues that were carved out in the mountain, they were also trying to eradicate history. Pristina are doing the exact same thing.

Rovena,

I have seen and entered Decani monestary and it is not a Catholic architecture, let alone 'typical'.

What Catholic Architecture have you seen, if any?
Go to Barcelona, Rome and Paris to see what a catholic architecture looks like. Then go to Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria and see what Byzantine architecture looks like.

I believe the West, whom Albanians are trying appease by attempting to delete all Serbs from Kosovo, are going to be insulted by this act of historic violence.

Western and Eastern historians are not stupid, and many are not poltically bound.

I get sense of insult when someone from Former Yugoslavia starts chatting to me about Chetniks being Nazi colaborators, when English educational system has thought me that they were finging against the Nazis and that idea that Chetniks were with Nazis is a version of History is accepted only in parts of Former Yugoslavia.

Whenever I hear that, I feel insulted as I feel that someone is trying to bend my opinion, stamp on my historical knowledge to get their agenda across, and assumes that I must be dumb enough to believe it without proper research.
I resent that, regardless who is saying it, Albanians, Serbs, Croats, Montenegrians...

Just because our politicians here are acting like headless chickens with their own agenda, doesn't mean the rest of us have automatically lost our ability to think and forgot all our history.

That applies here as well - I don't know if I should feel insulted or scared that Albanians are trying to teach us history.

"In his talk to Sejdiu, the Vatican revealed, Pope Benedict made a pointed reminder that Kosovo is a land "where Christianity has been present since the first centuries of our era." The Christian minority in the predominantly Muslim province-- and particularly the Orthodox of the ethnic Serbian population-- have been the objects of intimidation and violence since the warfare that rocked the province in the 1990s.
(Boba Borojevic, 5 February 2008 03:06) "


If we are to talk about Churches lets talk about the fact that there were places of worship prior to the slavic invasions during the 6th-7th Centuries.

There were ppl in Kosovo/a prior to the Serbs comming, during their co habitation, and even after they leave (as so many CHOSE to do when the Milosevic army left---You can watch enough video showing the majority 200k leaving with the pullout of the army and they were NOT driven out by force or by Albanians---but by their own FREE WILL).

All I see is that there are two sides bickering over place names or sites. Neither side wants to admit that prior to the invention of NATIONALISM the people of the region lived in peace (relative to the time or era and what its definition was at that time).

Albanians and Serbs lived next to each other for centuries.

If we were to squable over names lets go back to the roman or greek maps and rename cities places etc.. by their names of antiquity.

This way all anger and hate towards albanians would be quashed and then we can move on.

HISTORY is a lie! Its never precise or scientific. Its a writers version of an event in time. Take 100 ppl and give them a pen and each would write a different version of how the same event occured.

Now add NATIONALISM to the mix. And you can see how History is changed to suit its writers or a ppl of a nation.

Now add COMMUNISM to the mix, and now you have a more distorted view of History to suit the propaganda of that regime.

And now you have today!

Even if we tried to get to the bottom of the event that occured in the past its going to take a lot of RESEARCH, MONEY, and for POLITICIANS to stay out of the scholars way. (Example: the Yugoslavian Encyclopedia where it was politicized and not left to scholars to determine its content.)

There is going to be a period of much debate, but all here are not qualified, nor are they mature enough to have a debate where emotions are left to the side and out of the discussion.

One advantage is that Serbs are more educated and wrote their history, while Albanians past their history onwards through Folklore; and songs. Albanians are just beggining to educate themselves with UNIVERSITY degrees, BA;BS;MA;PHd's. And not I'm not saying that Albanians are ignorant or stupid.

If there are albanians that will get upset just look at what year your Universities opened compared to the rest of your Balkan neighbors.

Now there is a note to Serbs that the reason for their late admission to Higher Education is partially your BLAME and the OTTOMAN EMPIRE. Which had a policy of banning education in Albanian or dissallowing Albanians to speak their own language. This policy was enforced by the latter then by Serbia from the 1800's onwards.

So the serbs have a leg up on written material, doesn't mean that whatever is written is 100% unequivacally true to the letter. Also past Historians could be WRONG!

And a great example is SCIENCE! Science changes as more info is gained by scholars. And theories, laws, hypothesis, and ideas change and are re-evaluated based on new discoveries and people looking at things with a clearer perspective and NOT ONE TAINTED BY HATE, RELIGION, ETHNICITY, COMMUNISM, OR NATIONALISM.

Peace to all.......

P.S. I think that the names will be re-evaluated so as not to encite hate or friction amongst the citizens of Kosovo/a.

Kiko wrote:"If there are albanians that will get upset just look at what year your Universities opened compared to the rest of your Balkan neighbors".

You are absolutely right! But elaborate is batter/further- what happened to this UNI in 1981 (halved, as a presure by Serbia)? And who closed it in 1989 (Serbia)? now you have this society in Kosova who is practically now educating herself that is from 1999- after the freedom.

Now the question is: should we go back (prior to 1999) or move forward (independence).

I am for the second since it is the only real option that will guarantee progress for kosovars- Serbia never did, actually was impeding it. and you/others?

Im not surprised. wouldn't be surprised if the next thing that they put up is a map of europe with serbia shaded out. Show me one serbian produced map of europe where albania isnt shown. Talk about absolutely disgusting. Hey but yeah, say what you want. keep coming up with as many lies as you want and can. those churches were built by serbs for serbs. and if they had belonged to the albanians even once (yeah right!) they wouldnt have tried to destroy and torch as many of them as they could. To destory someones churches which have been around for centuries is one thing, but to then go and claim that they are albanian and have absolutely no reference to serbs is beyond ridiculous. What comes around goes around.

It is truly sad when the one has nothing own to be proud on but must assume other's historical facts as own. Truly sad. Otherwise, the style it’s “truly Byzantine- catholic”. Absurd! Few days ago we could read in b92 in Serbian language about the white bears living in Sar Planina, again Albanian propaganda.

Funcakes, (I'm still wondering where the name comes from)

The Ahtisaari Plan is optional now? Do you really believe that? The EU, US and other countries wouldn't recognize an independent Kosovo without assurances that it will be fully implemented and your government knows this. Don't try to fool yourself. Without it, Kosovo won't even meet the level of Taiwan style independence.

Afrim,

The Ahtisaari Plan also says that all the Orthodox Churches in Kosovo will remain property of the Serbia Orthodox Church and the Kosovo Government will recognize it. Read up and you will see that in Annex V of the Ahtisaari Plan. I take it you too believe that you will only be required to implement what you like of the Ahtisaari Plan, like Fruitcake.

Just one more question to the Albanian intellectuals here:

How are you going to "scientifically prove" that Serbian churches were once Albanian? You got a couple of Polaroids of Stephan Nemanja kicking out a bunch of Illyrians from their houses of worship? Are you prepared to challenge decades of Byzantine scholarship that has definitively placed dozens, if not hundreds, of landmarks in Kosovo squarely within Serbia's cultural heritage? You ready to challenge UNESCO?

And do you honestly believe that anybody in the academic world is going to take your "scholars" seriously?

Stealing history? This is one of the most pathetic things I've seen coming out of this region.

oh sweet jesus :) guys, albanians, friends: you're muslim, people, get over it already. surely it cant be that bad :)
what a crack, albanian alps... i'm emailing this to everyone i know :)

"The site added that white bears lived on the mountain, though this has since been changed. "

LOL

belokapac,

Now my heart beleed heavily because you dislike my comments :))))

And tell me one good reason why would I reveal the meaning of my nickname?

That is why you are getting "supervised independence" and not out right independence. We know we can't trust you further than we can throw you and won't trust you enough to turn our backs. Your PM, your political leaders, and your Parliament already said that they will enact the Ahtisaari. I hope you will believe it when you see your beloved red flag with the two headed eagle come down and the new multi-ethnic flag go up. You may not personally implement the Ahtisaari plan, but your government will. And seeing as you are the US's lap dog, I'm sure you will listen when we tell you that you can either implement and keep it, or you are on your own FOREVER.

John,

Can you provide a link to a map demonstrating your assertions?

I would really like a geography lesson.

Thanks!

I think this is clearly stepping over the line in a big way. If the Albanians in Kosovo can not respect our history and our sacred sites than any partition plan that goes into effect will have to include our most important sites.

I know there are plenty of moderate Albanians who would oppose such insanely provocative moves and I hope they speak up. If this is an indication of how our history is to be treated under a future Albanian government it’s clearly going to lead to war and violence at some point.

Seriously, what is the purpose behind such claims? Taking control of the land is one thing, trying to erase any trace of the Serbian people from the cradle of our civilization is Cultural Genocide.

These kinds of actions are enough to turn even moderate Serbs into radicals. Nothing good will come from this. I deeply fear for the future…

Does anybody remember the 'Bosnian Pyramids?'

The comment from KS is interesting. There are also a few comments above with similar overtones; that by proclaiming yourself a victor, you are granted the right to represent history the way you choose, despite the lack of a factual basis, just as long as it is self-serving, of course.

Does this mean that if, just a hypothetical example, China takes over Russia, it can declare that the Moscow Kremlin is a fine example of Sino-architecture?

For a third party observer, this represents a clear, and probably comical, vulgarity of historical fact. I couldn't imagine, for example, a Frenchman actually agreeing that the Kremlin is Chinese.

We can go a step further, and instead look at the case of the Americas. The Europeans started slowly moving into the New World. 'White man' populations started to grow fast, and something needed to be done to claim land from the Native Americans. Eventually, most tribes disappeared (many history books will describe how this happened in gory detail), and those who survived were rounded up and placed in 'enclaves' known as Territories. We all know what that looks like now. So, can a third-generation German-american claim that the totem pole is a fine example of Germano-artistry?

The Kosovo Trade Ministry has made itself a laughing stock with this.

The Kosovo Trade Ministry has made itself a laughing stock with this.

To Albion, an the rest of Albanians who keep on repeating ''Albanian Catholic Churches converted to Orthodox'' -

You do release that such is an absurd statement, don't you?

You do release that Byzantine architecture is completely different to that of Roman Catholicism, right?

You also understand that 'converting' something, leaves the exterior untouched (look at Hagia Sophia), no?

Therefore, the Orthodox Churches in Kosovo are Serbian Orthodox Byzantine style buildings, which no Albanian saw being built.

Macedonia never claimed Mother Teresa as Macedonian; they simply wanted to honour her as a citizen by birth, of Skopje. And Shar Planina is Macedonia, for God's sake! This is what happens when a quasi state is allowed to form for all the wrong reasons ie; a falsified history must be conjured up out of thin air to justify itself. This follows Greece's example with Aegean Macedonia. Interesting that both Greece ( 1820's) and Albania (early 20th century) are recently created nations by Western interlopers
for political reasons.

well it makes sense to me that albanians builded those churches since over 90% of populations are albanians.
and they deserve to call the mountains in their language as well.
(frank white, 4 February 2008 09:18)

Well that is a bit like saying Ephesus was built by the Turks because Turks make up 99% of Turkey's population.

As I said before re-writing history just because you don't like the real origins will attract a certain amount of deserved ridicule.

Frank, Pyramids of Gizeh were not built by Arabs although they represent more than 90% population of Egypt today. Hagia Sophia was not built by Turks, although they are more than 90% of population of Istanbul today. Anyone claiming otherwise would be ridiculed. That's kind of logic you apply to Serbian churches in Kosovo. The only link Kosovo Albanians have to Serbian churches is their destruction. Kosovo Albanians are not autochtonousd population not even in Albania, let alone in Kosovo. This is a perfect example of conquest by birthrate and expulsion of original inhabitants.

For genius above, toponym Gjakove is bastardized version of Serbian name Djakovica found on ancient maps under this name.

The entire Albania and Kosovo are dotted with Serbian toponyms and hydronums. It is established fact throughout the world that invaders bastardize found toponyms and hydronyms, not vice versa.

The Albanian hoax about being autochtonous population of Ksoovo can be seen from the very names they use for rivers and places, hence the birth of Dardania and other sad attempts.

Thank you, ben, for proving my point that Albanians are intolerant people who can't stand differences of opinions. I'm not sure that you would really want all the people, Americans included, who don't support your view to LEAVE (not live) Kosovo. KFOR might be a bit empty.

Hey Paul,

Read a history book. The Serbs were first given Thessalonika.

Cheers.

To Spunky
"the refugees are Albanians as per the clothes they are wearing."
Clothing, dialect, and culture are mixed, and very regional in the Balkans.

As far as your in depth research goes, do a Google on Seoba Srba, and maybe you'll learn something..
You make me laugh..

Perhaps the Dardania Ministry will take this into account when updating the history books..

ReRead BKK's statements about people's intolerance..

If the single minded Albanians and Serbs don't realize that there's a shared history in Kosovo, then your ALL living a lie...

I'm a practicing Architect in Chicago, received my B.S and March in architecture. My thesis was on Balkan architecture and I studied some of the monasteries listed above. It would be usless for me to argue with anybody here since from the comments I can only conclude that you do not have any idea about architecture and its history. I think you should first of all find out who the churches were built for, when they were built and by who. Who was on the land when they were built will pretty much tell you whos they are. So quit making up little fairy tales about this. These are Serbian Churches built by Serbs and no architecture historian or any scholar will prove it otherwise with enough education and historical background.

I simply can't believe what this dissension is all about!!!

Who on earth would want to visit Kosovo now anyway? There are water shortages in the summer and virtually no electric in the winter – especially if you are living in a Serb enclave. The only reason to visit Kosovo would be to see the wonderful Orthodox Churches and Monasteries – those that are left that is. The place is still pretty dangerous unless you are a well armed KFOR type!