Government awaiting EU draft agreement

Lenard - You think there wasn't already a brain drain throughout the 90s?? The Serbian people as a nation have been vilified and isolated not just by Milosevic but also the international community.

They have been blamed for everything throughout the wars and had a massive anti-Serbian media campaign against them. It's hard to undo that sort of damage.

Of course there was a lot for specific elements to be blamed for, but the headlines never read 'Serbian paramilitaries' or 'Serbian troops'; just 'Serbs' which demonised the entire nation.

This was a very deliberate move by Western govts. in desperation to justify what they were doing.

And all of us know that politicians rarely do anything unless it has an end goal to suit their purposes.

Time for the rot to stop and Serbia to take her rightful place in Europe again, but not at the cost of losing Kosovo.

If the international community want Tadic to win they should offer further talks on Kosovo until there can be a negotiated settlement, with no predetermined outcome promised by the US.

At the moment it looks as though the US are actually hoping for Nikolic to win!?

Serbia is being set up if their is any trouble over Kosovo or portion of it and any kind of fighting. You will see 10s of thousand of military age young people leaving Serbia and also a large educated brain drain joining them. EU and NATO will have a large feather in its cap also a big propaganda coop. They will say people are voting with their feet and leaving a vilified evil state and government that people don't support ,with no visa regime it will be not to much of a problem to cross the many border points and leave. The powers in the west will make sure of it to pull down Serbia any way they can and Serbia will be playing right in to their hands. In a very much no win situation damed if you damed if you don't.

Kate good riposte. Lenard the largest brain drain in Serbia's history occured when Serbia was not in the EU under that thieving autocrat Slobodan Milosevic.

Those insular nationalistic Croatian views may attract Serbian nationalists too but I'd remind Serbs that nationalistic Croatian views are a primary reason so many Serbs remain ethnically cleansed to this day.

Give me fortress Europe that doesnt let Serbs in rather than fortress Croatia that kicks Serbs out.

Its kind of sad in some way - the way that some Serbs and Croats have an inflated idea of their importance. The chief reason is that when they were living together in Yugoslavia, the country really was a force, that didnt need to choose to belong to an economic block...

Or was the lesson that Yugoslavia together should have joined the EC when Spain did?

Serbian membership of the EU is a contentious issue. There are nations in the EU that do not want Serbia in their club. There are Serbians (a large minority) who do not want Serbia in the EU. There is a real danger that the EU and Serbia will fall out over Serbian membership, and this would not be good for Serbia.

Serbia should simply declare that it wants good relations with the EU but that it does not wish to join. Serbia could then agree visa relaxation and trade agreements as an independent European state.

Serbia should also instead seek to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the main goals of which are “strengthening mutual confidence and good-neighbourly relations among the member countries; promoting their effective cooperation in politics, trade and economy, science and technology, culture as well as education, energy, transportation, tourism, environmental protection and other fields; making joint efforts to maintain and ensure peace, security and stability in the region, to move towards the establishment of a new, democratic, just and rational political and economic international order.”

The current members of the SCO are China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Republic, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. Mongolia, Iran, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Turkmenistan will soon join. This will be an organisation representing over 2 ½ billion people and dwarfs the EU in terms of size and importance.

The SCO would welcome a member in the heart of Europe and many EU firms would open subsidiaries in Serbia to gain access to the SCO.

Lenard, do you actually believe what you're saying?

Serbia's army, government and infrastructure has gone through huge fiscal changes..The army is more professional, and is probably more westernized than you think.

Like any other country is councerned, as long as Serbia isn't threatened by an act of aggression from another country, i can't see your dream of Serbian suppression from the west becoming a reality..

But go ahead and dream the big dream..Especially if it makes some people on these boards sleep better.

Serbia will NOT join the EU if Nikolic wins. I hope the Serbian people will be smart and choose the right person for president. The citizens of Serbia should vote for a European future for Serbia on 3 february.

Or was the lesson that Yugoslavia together should have joined the EC when Spain did?
(bganon, 1 February 2008 18:01)

- oh to be able to turn back time! Sadly Bganon, that is exactly what the EC 12 (1992 the Twelve signed the Treaty on European Unionand were form 1993 known as EU 12) failed to comprehend in the haste of Germany to recognise independence. A lesson that the EU seem to fail to comprehend today in the haste of the "few" EU who blindly follow US foreign policy that apparently will bring stability!!!

Not to blame just the EU but the "Yugoslav" republican elites too hastened the disintegration in wanting to maintain their "fiefdoms" which had developed under Tito's communist decline and took hold immediatly after his death.

These are the same countries that tried to bomb Serbia back into the Stone Age trying to destroy what is left of this country. Wolves in sheep’s clothing pretending that they will let Serbia join the EU and offering NATO membership. Can one really expect that they will really let Serbia join the EU without them first recognizing the independence of Kosovo? I don’t think so. Why did they not offer this agreement prior to the elections or prior to the probable unilateral declaration of independence by the Kosovar Albanians? The future is in the east and people should stop believing that the EU is going to improve their lives over night. Russia’s and China’s economies are growing while the west has slowed down.

EU offers this "special agreement" to Serbia as it no longer believes that Serbia is redy to join EU.
More and more countries and citizens of EU are realizing that Serbia has not moved on, but is stock between the 90-is and the future.
As a matter of fact it appers lately that the country is moving backwards.
Therfore Nikolic winning would bring beter clarity, this way EU and Serbia will be back where they started after Slobodon era 95.
Only after a Nikolic win EU and serbians can start talking seriousely, weather Serbia is going to deal with it's past, reform itself or is it going to become isolated, back to Milosevic times.
This could only happen after a new 95 stile revolution though.
Tadic does not deserve to win, the guy is trying to please everybody and nobody, he does not make his position clear. Hence his popularity appers to be in decline. Radicals did better than last time, and may repeat this on the 3rd.
EU itself appers confused over Tadic, hence halfhearted support. In his rethoric, from being a supported democrat he beats even Nikolic with his radical expressions.
May tommorows' voting bring some clarity, may Nikolic win!

Princip I am glad to say that on Yugoslav federal elites we are in full agreement.

Of course joining the EU was completely opposite of what they (elites) were trying to achieve. They wanted to take away power from federal structures to increase their own.

Thats why Tito should have begun the accession process, although he was a creature of his time (aside from the Communist aspect which I disagreed with, his power relations were quite sound, although).

But I wonder how things may have been different. If Yugoslavia had picked Europe the Soviet Union might have played the role in destabilising Yugoslavia and not some Western countries!

Oh, for a time machine to test the theory.

Serbia will NOT join the EU if Nikolic wins. I hope the Serbian people will be smart and choose the right person for president. The citizens of Serbia should vote for a European future for Serbia on 3 february.

Serbia is being set up if their is any trouble over Kosovo or portion of it and any kind of fighting. You will see 10s of thousand of military age young people leaving Serbia and also a large educated brain drain joining them. EU and NATO will have a large feather in its cap also a big propaganda coop. They will say people are voting with their feet and leaving a vilified evil state and government that people don't support ,with no visa regime it will be not to much of a problem to cross the many border points and leave. The powers in the west will make sure of it to pull down Serbia any way they can and Serbia will be playing right in to their hands. In a very much no win situation damed if you damed if you don't.

Kate good riposte. Lenard the largest brain drain in Serbia's history occured when Serbia was not in the EU under that thieving autocrat Slobodan Milosevic.

Those insular nationalistic Croatian views may attract Serbian nationalists too but I'd remind Serbs that nationalistic Croatian views are a primary reason so many Serbs remain ethnically cleansed to this day.

Give me fortress Europe that doesnt let Serbs in rather than fortress Croatia that kicks Serbs out.

Its kind of sad in some way - the way that some Serbs and Croats have an inflated idea of their importance. The chief reason is that when they were living together in Yugoslavia, the country really was a force, that didnt need to choose to belong to an economic block...

Or was the lesson that Yugoslavia together should have joined the EC when Spain did?

Princip I am glad to say that on Yugoslav federal elites we are in full agreement.

Of course joining the EU was completely opposite of what they (elites) were trying to achieve. They wanted to take away power from federal structures to increase their own.

Thats why Tito should have begun the accession process, although he was a creature of his time (aside from the Communist aspect which I disagreed with, his power relations were quite sound, although).

But I wonder how things may have been different. If Yugoslavia had picked Europe the Soviet Union might have played the role in destabilising Yugoslavia and not some Western countries!

Oh, for a time machine to test the theory.

Lenard - You think there wasn't already a brain drain throughout the 90s?? The Serbian people as a nation have been vilified and isolated not just by Milosevic but also the international community.

They have been blamed for everything throughout the wars and had a massive anti-Serbian media campaign against them. It's hard to undo that sort of damage.

Of course there was a lot for specific elements to be blamed for, but the headlines never read 'Serbian paramilitaries' or 'Serbian troops'; just 'Serbs' which demonised the entire nation.

This was a very deliberate move by Western govts. in desperation to justify what they were doing.

And all of us know that politicians rarely do anything unless it has an end goal to suit their purposes.

Time for the rot to stop and Serbia to take her rightful place in Europe again, but not at the cost of losing Kosovo.

If the international community want Tadic to win they should offer further talks on Kosovo until there can be a negotiated settlement, with no predetermined outcome promised by the US.

At the moment it looks as though the US are actually hoping for Nikolic to win!?

Or was the lesson that Yugoslavia together should have joined the EC when Spain did?
(bganon, 1 February 2008 18:01)

- oh to be able to turn back time! Sadly Bganon, that is exactly what the EC 12 (1992 the Twelve signed the Treaty on European Unionand were form 1993 known as EU 12) failed to comprehend in the haste of Germany to recognise independence. A lesson that the EU seem to fail to comprehend today in the haste of the "few" EU who blindly follow US foreign policy that apparently will bring stability!!!

Not to blame just the EU but the "Yugoslav" republican elites too hastened the disintegration in wanting to maintain their "fiefdoms" which had developed under Tito's communist decline and took hold immediatly after his death.

Serbian membership of the EU is a contentious issue. There are nations in the EU that do not want Serbia in their club. There are Serbians (a large minority) who do not want Serbia in the EU. There is a real danger that the EU and Serbia will fall out over Serbian membership, and this would not be good for Serbia.

Serbia should simply declare that it wants good relations with the EU but that it does not wish to join. Serbia could then agree visa relaxation and trade agreements as an independent European state.

Serbia should also instead seek to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the main goals of which are “strengthening mutual confidence and good-neighbourly relations among the member countries; promoting their effective cooperation in politics, trade and economy, science and technology, culture as well as education, energy, transportation, tourism, environmental protection and other fields; making joint efforts to maintain and ensure peace, security and stability in the region, to move towards the establishment of a new, democratic, just and rational political and economic international order.”

The current members of the SCO are China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Republic, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. Mongolia, Iran, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Turkmenistan will soon join. This will be an organisation representing over 2 ½ billion people and dwarfs the EU in terms of size and importance.

The SCO would welcome a member in the heart of Europe and many EU firms would open subsidiaries in Serbia to gain access to the SCO.

Lenard, do you actually believe what you're saying?

Serbia's army, government and infrastructure has gone through huge fiscal changes..The army is more professional, and is probably more westernized than you think.

Like any other country is councerned, as long as Serbia isn't threatened by an act of aggression from another country, i can't see your dream of Serbian suppression from the west becoming a reality..

But go ahead and dream the big dream..Especially if it makes some people on these boards sleep better.

These are the same countries that tried to bomb Serbia back into the Stone Age trying to destroy what is left of this country. Wolves in sheep’s clothing pretending that they will let Serbia join the EU and offering NATO membership. Can one really expect that they will really let Serbia join the EU without them first recognizing the independence of Kosovo? I don’t think so. Why did they not offer this agreement prior to the elections or prior to the probable unilateral declaration of independence by the Kosovar Albanians? The future is in the east and people should stop believing that the EU is going to improve their lives over night. Russia’s and China’s economies are growing while the west has slowed down.

EU offers this "special agreement" to Serbia as it no longer believes that Serbia is redy to join EU.
More and more countries and citizens of EU are realizing that Serbia has not moved on, but is stock between the 90-is and the future.
As a matter of fact it appers lately that the country is moving backwards.
Therfore Nikolic winning would bring beter clarity, this way EU and Serbia will be back where they started after Slobodon era 95.
Only after a Nikolic win EU and serbians can start talking seriousely, weather Serbia is going to deal with it's past, reform itself or is it going to become isolated, back to Milosevic times.
This could only happen after a new 95 stile revolution though.
Tadic does not deserve to win, the guy is trying to please everybody and nobody, he does not make his position clear. Hence his popularity appers to be in decline. Radicals did better than last time, and may repeat this on the 3rd.
EU itself appers confused over Tadic, hence halfhearted support. In his rethoric, from being a supported democrat he beats even Nikolic with his radical expressions.
May tommorows' voting bring some clarity, may Nikolic win!