Greece: EU must be united over Kosovo

To Azir
The fact that Greece has allowed 500000 albanians,in
addition to 200000 ethnic Greeks to come to Greece and
make a living shows that
Greece is not anti-albanian
as you suggest.The remmitances of the Albanians
sent back home is equal to
20% of Albanias GDP.The Chams
were nazi collaborators and
were driven out by the Greek
resistance during World war II.Have you read about the
crimes they commited in those
years.Rapes,killings, burning
of villages, to name few.Can
you name any suffering minorities in Greece? The
albanians seem to have problems with every single
country in the Balkans.The fact that Greece supports a
solution in Kosovo based on
legal UN security council resolutions and not on UDIs
is not anti-albanian.

Azir, you're never getting Southern Epiros. Save your nationalist rants for the Greater Albania chat sites.

US ambassadors in the Balkans have always seen it as their holy right to tell Europe what to do. It sometimes seems that their advice could be more ueseful if given to the US administration. Europe will survive without the US interferrence in European Affairs. Can US survive their constant interferrence worldwide?

Greece must over come it's ingrained anti- Albanian bias and co operate with the EU and US plan for long term peace and stability for the Balkans. We all know the Greeks un orthodox "postion" and expect more maturity. As long as Chameria is occupied the Greeks will never side with reasoning, fairness and honesty. Their own horrible human rights record of her minorities, of which she doesn't even acknowledge their existence, let alone rights.

Posted from Leonidas
[quote]The fact that Greece has allowed 500000 albanians,in
addition to 200000 ethnic Greeks to come to Greece and
make a living shows that
Greece is not anti-albanian
as you suggest.[unquote]
First of all the numbers are disputable. The "so called 200 000 Ethnic Greeks" are a mix of Albanian Ortodox,Albanian Vlachs and Ethnic Greeks. I am one of those "ethnic greeks" (half ethnic greek-half albanian ortodox) that you mention. I lived 10 years is Greece, 9 of which I was "illegal immigrant" living in constant fear of being deported although Greek Constitution forbids greeks expelling other greeks.
Fact is the Greece is still in state of war with Albania since 1941 and greek parlaments has continuosly refused to abrogate the law of war and sign a formal peace treaty with Albania.
[quote]
The remmitances of the Albanians
sent back home is equal to
20% of Albanias GDP.[unquote]
Yes, this is true. And all this money is in greek banks in Albania (which the "unfriendly albanian goverment has allowed to have monopoly in the banking system). Not to mention that again those money are spent back on imports from Greece or the contribution in the broken system of the greek social security and taxes. See I was "illegal" to stay in Greeve, but perfectly legal to pay IKA and taxes. It seems to me as mutual benefit not as favor that one side did to the other side.
[quote]
The Chams
were nazi collaborators and
were driven out by the Greek
resistance during World war II.Have you read about the
crimes they commited in those
years.Rapes,killings, burning
of villages, to name few.[unquote]
Postwar greek courts have convicted 700 Chams for war crimes during WW2. For those 700 Chams war criminals, 25 000 Chams were expelled, 5000 killed, cham villages also burned and their properties are still even today confiscated. Don't forget Leonidas that those people were Greek citizens.
[quote]
Can you name any suffering minorities in Greece? [unquote]
1)Slavic macedonians, denied of speaking their language, identity,self determination, self representation etc.
2)Cham albanian Ortodox minority (not arvanites), denied of ethnic identity, self determination, language, etc
3)Turkish minority in Thrace and Rodos.
4)Roma minority.

[quote]
The albanians seem to have problems with every single
country in the Balkans.The fact that Greece supports a
solution in Kosovo based on
legal UN security council resolutions and not on UDIs
is not anti-albanian.
(Leonidas, 31 January 2008 21:18) [unquote]
Albanians are not the exemption from other people in Balkans. We all have problems with each other. Albanians with Serbs and Greeks, Greeks with Turks and Macedonians, Serbs with Albanians, Croats and Bosnians. By fingerpointing only the Albanians as sole reason for the problems in the Balkans, well it is anti-albanian. Just like fingerpointing only serbs as the reason for these problems is anti-serbian. And Greece in my opinion is the last country to teach others about international law. It has "bend" it so many times that I've lost count. But just like any other country in the region is not the only one.

Leonidis: Greece is the only country in teh world that dos nt recognize to have any minorities- odd don't you think?
anyhow albanians consider greece as a friendly courty- it is Greece that distingush a bit for other EU coutries in the position towards alabnians -it is eve much more idferent than macedonia or bulgaria or croatia.. jut don't understand why? or maybe I do...

If Kosovo's Serbs were living in a safe setting and they felt just as free as in Serbia mr. Roderick would have a point. Unfortunately that is not the case and there is much to improve in their position.

So I would suggest mr. Roderick: implement the Ahtisaari plan now. Then wait 6 months to see how it works out and what needs to be improved. Then we can have much more realistic negotiations. At the moment the Ahtisaari plan combined with IDU is just a license to cleanse.

Leonidas, from your facts, out of the 500,000 Albanians "allowed" to work in Greece don't you know a percentage are the indigenous Arvanites/Chams whose lands were illegally incorporated into Greece's historical expansion program, against their will?As for the economic migrants, I'm sure they are greatfull to be under employeed, under paid and most enjoy no pension and do without other benefits Greeks take for granted.Don't you know the Greek economy benefits from this under paying of prevailing wages.Does this savings not benefit Greece, more? As for the remittances, the workers who sacrifice their savings for their families have ever right to do what ever they want with their money.Similiar to what the Greek immigrants do in the US.Under pretext of alleged "nazi collaboration" the Chams were illegally deported, striped of their property,national and human rights.Albania was occupied by the Germans and yet we didn't use that fact as a pretext to ethnic cleanse the Greek minority.Greece doesn't recognize it has minorities, let along granting them national rights.The unjustly divided Albanian nation of 7 milion does have an issue with being treated as second rate citizens and un represented. Original Albania never had more than half of our people outside the borders,that was done over 90 years ago and against our will,thanks to the West, but finally this is about to change.United States of Albanians in the EU should be viewed positively.

B92,I would really appreciate having my right to comment and challenge opposing views with out censorship and denying your members an opportunity to hear me out and even disagree with me in a civilized environment.Please print my comments and let the people decide for themselves. After all we do live in a free society??

It seems like all other Balkan nations against Albanians, why is that? Why do all other Balkan nations have a dispute with Albanians, and vise-versa? Is it because Albanians only want to be Albanian, wherever they move? And not be a true citizen of their host country?

Greece must over come it's ingrained anti- Albanian bias and co operate with the EU and US plan for long term peace and stability for the Balkans. We all know the Greeks un orthodox "postion" and expect more maturity. As long as Chameria is occupied the Greeks will never side with reasoning, fairness and honesty. Their own horrible human rights record of her minorities, of which she doesn't even acknowledge their existence, let alone rights.

Leonidis: Greece is the only country in teh world that dos nt recognize to have any minorities- odd don't you think?
anyhow albanians consider greece as a friendly courty- it is Greece that distingush a bit for other EU coutries in the position towards alabnians -it is eve much more idferent than macedonia or bulgaria or croatia.. jut don't understand why? or maybe I do...

Leonidas, from your facts, out of the 500,000 Albanians "allowed" to work in Greece don't you know a percentage are the indigenous Arvanites/Chams whose lands were illegally incorporated into Greece's historical expansion program, against their will?As for the economic migrants, I'm sure they are greatfull to be under employeed, under paid and most enjoy no pension and do without other benefits Greeks take for granted.Don't you know the Greek economy benefits from this under paying of prevailing wages.Does this savings not benefit Greece, more? As for the remittances, the workers who sacrifice their savings for their families have ever right to do what ever they want with their money.Similiar to what the Greek immigrants do in the US.Under pretext of alleged "nazi collaboration" the Chams were illegally deported, striped of their property,national and human rights.Albania was occupied by the Germans and yet we didn't use that fact as a pretext to ethnic cleanse the Greek minority.Greece doesn't recognize it has minorities, let along granting them national rights.The unjustly divided Albanian nation of 7 milion does have an issue with being treated as second rate citizens and un represented. Original Albania never had more than half of our people outside the borders,that was done over 90 years ago and against our will,thanks to the West, but finally this is about to change.United States of Albanians in the EU should be viewed positively.

To Azir
The fact that Greece has allowed 500000 albanians,in
addition to 200000 ethnic Greeks to come to Greece and
make a living shows that
Greece is not anti-albanian
as you suggest.The remmitances of the Albanians
sent back home is equal to
20% of Albanias GDP.The Chams
were nazi collaborators and
were driven out by the Greek
resistance during World war II.Have you read about the
crimes they commited in those
years.Rapes,killings, burning
of villages, to name few.Can
you name any suffering minorities in Greece? The
albanians seem to have problems with every single
country in the Balkans.The fact that Greece supports a
solution in Kosovo based on
legal UN security council resolutions and not on UDIs
is not anti-albanian.

Azir, you're never getting Southern Epiros. Save your nationalist rants for the Greater Albania chat sites.

US ambassadors in the Balkans have always seen it as their holy right to tell Europe what to do. It sometimes seems that their advice could be more ueseful if given to the US administration. Europe will survive without the US interferrence in European Affairs. Can US survive their constant interferrence worldwide?

If Kosovo's Serbs were living in a safe setting and they felt just as free as in Serbia mr. Roderick would have a point. Unfortunately that is not the case and there is much to improve in their position.

So I would suggest mr. Roderick: implement the Ahtisaari plan now. Then wait 6 months to see how it works out and what needs to be improved. Then we can have much more realistic negotiations. At the moment the Ahtisaari plan combined with IDU is just a license to cleanse.

B92,I would really appreciate having my right to comment and challenge opposing views with out censorship and denying your members an opportunity to hear me out and even disagree with me in a civilized environment.Please print my comments and let the people decide for themselves. After all we do live in a free society??

It seems like all other Balkan nations against Albanians, why is that? Why do all other Balkan nations have a dispute with Albanians, and vise-versa? Is it because Albanians only want to be Albanian, wherever they move? And not be a true citizen of their host country?

Posted from Leonidas
[quote]The fact that Greece has allowed 500000 albanians,in
addition to 200000 ethnic Greeks to come to Greece and
make a living shows that
Greece is not anti-albanian
as you suggest.[unquote]
First of all the numbers are disputable. The "so called 200 000 Ethnic Greeks" are a mix of Albanian Ortodox,Albanian Vlachs and Ethnic Greeks. I am one of those "ethnic greeks" (half ethnic greek-half albanian ortodox) that you mention. I lived 10 years is Greece, 9 of which I was "illegal immigrant" living in constant fear of being deported although Greek Constitution forbids greeks expelling other greeks.
Fact is the Greece is still in state of war with Albania since 1941 and greek parlaments has continuosly refused to abrogate the law of war and sign a formal peace treaty with Albania.
[quote]
The remmitances of the Albanians
sent back home is equal to
20% of Albanias GDP.[unquote]
Yes, this is true. And all this money is in greek banks in Albania (which the "unfriendly albanian goverment has allowed to have monopoly in the banking system). Not to mention that again those money are spent back on imports from Greece or the contribution in the broken system of the greek social security and taxes. See I was "illegal" to stay in Greeve, but perfectly legal to pay IKA and taxes. It seems to me as mutual benefit not as favor that one side did to the other side.
[quote]
The Chams
were nazi collaborators and
were driven out by the Greek
resistance during World war II.Have you read about the
crimes they commited in those
years.Rapes,killings, burning
of villages, to name few.[unquote]
Postwar greek courts have convicted 700 Chams for war crimes during WW2. For those 700 Chams war criminals, 25 000 Chams were expelled, 5000 killed, cham villages also burned and their properties are still even today confiscated. Don't forget Leonidas that those people were Greek citizens.
[quote]
Can you name any suffering minorities in Greece? [unquote]
1)Slavic macedonians, denied of speaking their language, identity,self determination, self representation etc.
2)Cham albanian Ortodox minority (not arvanites), denied of ethnic identity, self determination, language, etc
3)Turkish minority in Thrace and Rodos.
4)Roma minority.

[quote]
The albanians seem to have problems with every single
country in the Balkans.The fact that Greece supports a
solution in Kosovo based on
legal UN security council resolutions and not on UDIs
is not anti-albanian.
(Leonidas, 31 January 2008 21:18) [unquote]
Albanians are not the exemption from other people in Balkans. We all have problems with each other. Albanians with Serbs and Greeks, Greeks with Turks and Macedonians, Serbs with Albanians, Croats and Bosnians. By fingerpointing only the Albanians as sole reason for the problems in the Balkans, well it is anti-albanian. Just like fingerpointing only serbs as the reason for these problems is anti-serbian. And Greece in my opinion is the last country to teach others about international law. It has "bend" it so many times that I've lost count. But just like any other country in the region is not the only one.