"Russia defending international law"

“...one shouldn’t attack the little guy, violate sovereignty, and tear off parts of another country’s territory just because you feel like it.“

Absolutely right!

And to Ahmet: The 'West' has created the international moral high ground on which Russia can now afford to stand.

It has done so through its blatant and shameless disregard for international laws and treaties.

I would, believe me, far prefer to be standing in the corner of my own country but as it has chosen to blindly follow the Bush administration this is impossible.

My hope is for the EU to make a stand against this madness, so at least I feel I am represented by some sane, knowledgable and thoughtful leaders.

Mr Rogozin is so right, especially when speaking about the division in the Europe in the line of ethnicity and further division in cells within Europe. Instead of strengthening the Europe, Europe allows creation of the weak points. That was very good analysis and sort of warning on the external interference.

If you ask me, Albanians want the state "on the plate". That means - the whole of Serbia and the rest of ex-Yugoslavia founded and sent money through the communism era to Kosovo. That money was used to pay for the infrastructure, health care, education, economy and so on, since Kosovo was the far more poorer than any other part of former Yugoslavia. So everything you see on Kosovo today (except Night clubs and topless bars) was in possession of the Republic of Yugoslavia, and after that of republic of Serbia.

Now, Albanians on the Kosovo want to have it all for them self, but they never gave a single cent for it in the past because most of the Albanians on Kosovo today are illegal immigrants or descendants of illegal emigrants from Albania (they escaped from they own country because of the dictatorship of Enver Hodza). Thats why you have so many Albanians in Serbia, in Macedonia, in Greece, in Montenegro and in the Western countries - because it was better to live in these countries than in Albania.
But now, after they have seek a refuge, and we gave it to them - Albanians turned evil in Serbia (on Kosovo), in Macedonia, in the West...

It's like you save a life of some man, gave him a food to eat and house to live in, take away his troubles - and after short period of time he starts to rape your daughter and wife, taking over your house for himself and start to act like he was the one who saved you and he is the one that own this beautiful house since always, and after that he starts to lie and ensure other people that he is the good one and you are the bad one!
Is this OK.?
I THINK NOT.

So, please get into our position! What would you do?

to bh nyc:

I am just wondering when you will stop playing the victim card?

If you remember it was those little guys that started the trouble with their nationalistic ambitions of creating ethnically pure states. This is why there was war in the first place. So please stop playing the victm.

Flamur, UK

I don't know if you ever asked me for my passport, I have never seen that question addressed to me? I just wonder why do you ask that question and what is the link between my passport and what Mr Rogozin stated? I mean, there is no much sense, don't you agree. However, I haven't study deeply what was written in my passport, probably is the old YU. So,what is the point as long as I am a Serbian citizen. I can be a holder of Kenyan passport too and does that makes me a lesser Serb?

uli

Russia is a European country, culturally more so than Albania.

Flamur UK, I don't get your point about passports at all. Yugoslavian passports are still valid and many people who now live in the diaspora have a second passport.

What is your point about Serbian citizenship? Serbia is the legal successor state to Yugoslavia, besides which any national with a birth certificate and the relevant documents can get a new passport.

I realise that your question isn't addressed to me, but I'm interested to know the issue. Am I missing something?

well, it´s interesting to see the K-albanians here reacting as if they were stung by a bee...

the truth hurts, right?

Where were the Russians during Croatian, Bosnian, Kosovan wars? What did they do to stop Serbian forces attacking little guys? That's right, NOTHING to stop them but A LOT to encourage them. Only the Serb nationalists (including the ones with foreign names) will trust such.

Flamur UK: The 'little guy' is in the context of the international stage. That is what matters in this issue now, and what this article is about.

But thanks for reposting my entire comment - you just reiterated my point for me.

Defending international law refering to russians means fighting against albanians and steal their land their history and culture. Ask russian or Serbian or Greek historians they will say that Scanderbeg was thir heero. Albanians they never exists before. Sudenly they appeare after otoman empire. This mean that albanians were not included in international law.

Rogozin=Zhirinovski,
He should uphold the laws of its own country, becasue as for International Laws he has no clue what that means since Russia is the biggest violator of International Laws.

"According to Slovenian and Croatian media who refer to an unnamed Italian diplomat, all EU member-states will recognize Kosovo independence provided unanimity is reached over the date."

Yep, how about the year 9321? But Serbia still wont support it and neither will Russia!

“...one shouldn’t attack the little guy, violate sovereignty, and tear off parts of another country’s territory just because you feel like it.“

Absolutely right!

And to Ahmet: The 'West' has created the international moral high ground on which Russia can now afford to stand.

It has done so through its blatant and shameless disregard for international laws and treaties.

I would, believe me, far prefer to be standing in the corner of my own country but as it has chosen to blindly follow the Bush administration this is impossible.

My hope is for the EU to make a stand against this madness, so at least I feel I am represented by some sane, knowledgable and thoughtful leaders.
(kate, 21 January 2008 13:39)


It's funny how you never think about the fact that one can ask you the same question in return of what you preach or say. You say/agree that one shouldn't attack the little guy just because you like it, yet, you forget that we, Albanians, were little guys for the last 100 years, and Serbia, big guy, attacked us purely because they like it.

I too hope that there are sane leaders in EU who will stand against Serbia's fake offers and their whiter than white lies.
As for disregarding the international laws and treaties, well I gave up trying to teach you, that international laws, are there for everyone to respect and abide to, and not just because the ball is in other side now, you are so adamant for everyone else to follow the rules

. Where were you when the whole world was telling you follow the rules, follow international laws? Where were you when resolution after resolution was made in UN, yet Serbia ignored them? I am sure if you had the power, you would've created different rules for Serbia and Russia and different rules for the whole world. Well sorry to disappoint you but the world cannot run on your terms, despite your wishes.

P.S Bmrusila, I've been asking you 3 times but unfortunately for some reason b92 see it as againts the rules to publish my simple question towards you.
My question is, I am trying again, do you really have a Serbian Passport, if yes, does it say, under nationality, Serbian citizen or does it still say Yugoslavian?

Now russia cares about Europe been United and feel sorry for other European Countries. We all know this is hipocrizy and it is fake. Russian should mind their own business and stay away of Europe, where they dont belong. Europeans are able take their own business without Russia putting their noise and trying to create artificial problems. Russia outside of European politics now and ever.

for (KS, 21 January 2008 22:47)


It is true that Albanians on Kosovo are majority now:
* 92% Albanians
* 4% Serbs
* 2% Bosniaks and Gorans
* 1% Roma
* 1% Turks

But, it wasn't that way always. You can see that if you look how many squares of land, estates and how many factories and mines were in possession of Serbs only in past century. You can see that Albanians started to grow their possessions only after the NATO bombing - by stealing away the properties of Serbs (houses, lands, forests...), by stealing away properties of Republic of Serbia (factories, mines, state buildings, offices...).

Now, nobody is telling this side of the Kosovo story - how much of the Kosovo is legally in hands of Albanians? How can Albanians attract foreign investments after hypothetic independence, if they don't have no settled scores in cartulary? Where are the legal trade papers? Who will buy stolen gods?

This was also a problem in Croatia and Bosnia after war - many people have moved into unoccupied houses and enjoyed in other peoples belongings, and many firms started working by using other firms offices and factories. But, some years after the war - all of those stolen things were given back to their real owners because it was condition to start even thinking of entering the EU. This fate awaits you too on Kosovo.

So let's stop pretending.

Serbs built up roads, factories, houses, schools, hospitals, infrastructure, energy plants, mines, bridges and other things at Kosovo -
and now Albanians want to move in these facilities for free and take it over.

You Albanians can lie to all of the world, but you can not lie to us. We know you.
We will not let you do it that easy.

Geni

I was just making it clea rto uli that Russia is a European nation geographically, historically, culturally, demographically and socio-politically, not to mention a great contributor to Western Civilization and mankind, though he seems to think otherwise, saying Russia doesn't belong in Europe, or whatever.

I am not measuring who is more European, though Russia, being a Christian state is culturally more European than Albania, which is a muslim state and thus culturally more distant than Russia is in this case.

I am aware of Albania's history and do not deny that it is indeed an integral part of Europe's history.

Now, Albanians on the Kosovo want to have it all for them self, but they never gave a single cent for it in the past because most of the Albanians on Kosovo today are illegal immigrants or descendants of illegal emigrants from Albania (they escaped from they own country because of the dictatorship of Enver Hodza).


B92 are you SERIOUS?????
How can you let such a provacative comment through? I don't know where to begin to point out all the FALSE and PROPAGANDA to point out/correct.

There are two countries (at minimum) that will always have Serbia's back - Russia & France.

To Flamur/Ahmet - WHO CARES & why should it matter what kind of pasos bmruslia has! If you're currently residing in the UK - good! How many pasos do YOU have & what do THEY say? For weeks/months, we don't hear from you (thank goodness) & then when we do, you are a "Komarac" as is Ahmet!

Flamur UK,

I have never ask any of you Albanians whose passport do you have or apply for. No, having any passport does not make you any lesser Albanian but it does make you a citizen of the country whose passport you hold. Now, I assume you are the holder of the UK passport and you are their citizen. Yes you may feel as an Albanian and you should but you are still UK citizen and have certain obligations toward the country that you reside. First of all you have to respect the country that you live in. I think that no one in this forum try to make you lesser Albanian but to make you aware whose citizen the one is and the what are the responsibilites of the individuals towards the country that the one lives in. Having YU passport and, Serbia is the legal succesor of ex YU, it does make you a ctizen of Republic of Serbia as long as those passports are valid and as such accepted everywhere officialy.

Peter,

I wanted you to undersstand that Albania is not a moslem state there is a 60% of the pop. which is moslem, but the rest is orthodox and catholic. From those that are moslem, about 50 % belong to a sect that is not so moslem as it is a special conglomerate religion between christianity and islam.
Facts:
1) Albanian have been christian before Russia, Serbia and Poland.
2) Being flexible in religion is more of a European value than being christian.

Peter

I'm not exactly sure what your definition of a "Muslim state" is, but in the case of Albania, it's simply a country where most Albanians are nominally muslim. Over a third of the population is Christian. Unlike other "Muslim" countries, Islam is not the official state religion.

As in most European countries, religion and state remain firmly separated. For years, the country has been flooded with religious missionaries of all types and only God knows who's what anymore. Any spiritual Poles in Albania, would have an easy enough time finding churches around, Catholic, Orthodox, take your pick. I daresay, religious expression enjoys as much as, if not more, freedom in Albania as in other Western countries.

As for Russia...

Whether Russia is European or not is irrelevant, thought they do tend to use their geographical position to suit their interests (Sometimes Asian, sometimes European). Throughout the past couple of centuries they copycatted Western culture (and contributed some back), but one can safely say that the only lasting contribution of the Russians is authoritarianism and a continuous threat to Europe's security.

To Kate and Princip and others touting "international law violations" ...

I find it ironic that the biggest perpetrators of violations of human, minority rights, and what not always hide behind sovereignty and international law when trying to escape punishment. To follow their logic...peoples' lives are far less important than pieces of rocks.

In Bulgaria, Putin called the secession of Kosovo illegal and immoral. I had to laugh at that.

It was like having a pedophile preaching childrens' right.

I hope that everyone can see it clearly what the Russian and Serbs meant by further "negotiations" regarding the Kosova status.....If you can not understand it...it is time for retirement.

Peter,
It looks like you want to be neutral, but you are not.
As far as who is more European the Russians or Albanians, let me tell ask you how do you measure a country's europeanization? I think that you want to be neutral, but you should read more about the Albanian history, and more over go and visit Albania once a while in order to be more "neutral"?

However, I haven't study deeply what was written in my passport, probably is the old YU. So,what is the point as long as I am a Serbian citizen. I can be a holder of Kenyan passport too and does that makes me a lesser Serb?
(bmrusila, 21 January 2008 16:48)

Bmrusila - you, princip and some others from Serb's camp, always say that Albanians are Serbian citizens, because they have and still apply for Serbian passports. Therefore I asked you in previous posts, if you, have a Serbian Passport, because I know there is no Serbian Passports? For some reason my question was always omitted.

As for your today's reply, then, would you agree with me when I say that an Albanian can be a holder of Kenyan passport too or old ex Yugoslavian passport for that matter but, that does not mean he is a Serbian nor does it make him a lesser Albanian? Just for your info, I do agree with you, it doesn't matter what passport you hold, is what you feel that matters. Passports are just to travel not to show what you have and feel in your heart.

Flamur UK: The 'little guy' is in the context of the international stage. That is what matters in this issue now, and what this article is about.

But thanks for reposting my entire comment - you just reiterated my point for me.
(kate, 21 January 2008 16:55)

Kate, I am quoting you, again, not reiterating your point, I hope you know what a " quote" means?
As for my comment, B92 was at it again, omitted a lot of words. So, really, I don't know if I can bother to reply to you again knowing fully well that my comment will be thoroughly edited.

But, just in case it passes b92's moderators, tell me Kate, when I said we were little guys and Serbia was a big guy, this was not relevant to you was it, because NOW Serbia is not a big guy towards little guys, Albanians? What it matters for you is what's happening now, today.

So then, when I say that Kosova should be Independent because is not administered by Serbia NOW, you would agree with me, wouldn't you Kate? According to you, the issue NOW is what it matters, am I right?.

Or maybe, according to your previous posts, when it comes to Serbia, we should go back to history and count how it was yesterday, last year or last decades? How far back do you want to go Kate?

Maybe, as for your wishes, as far as we want but for as long as we don't portray Serbia as someone who breached international laws, treaties etc, then its fine. Is this how you want Kate? We should ignore everything that Serbia did against little guys and only count what is not in the interest of Serbia, including international laws. Even if it means defending the defenceless little guys, as in our case, us Albanians? Or am I trying to twist your words, again?

I think its time for you for a reality check, because as I told you above, comment 6, the world cannot run on your terms or on any particular country or individual. One cannot ignore the international law today and only count from tomorrow or day after. At the same time, one cannot ignore nor forget who ignored/breached the very same international law yesterday or a day before yesterday.

P.S. As for my point about Serbian Passports, well Bmrusila just proved my point and at the same time contradicted herself as well as all those who count Albanians as Serbian Citizens, despite the fact that some Albanians are still holders of old ex-YU passports and not the Serbian passports. Therefore, because I know, the Serbian passport does not exist, she proved that as well herself, then how comes Albanians have one?

She went even further by explaining to us that one can have any passport, even a Kenyan, yet that does not mean he/she is a Kenyan. And I agree with her, even though for the first time, it does not matter if Albanians are holders of old YU passports, how they feel is what it matters. You see Kate, when a Serb tells the truth then is not hard for an Albanian to agree with him/her.

P.S.S In case one jumps and say that whatever passport one has, and whatever it says his/her nationality/citizenship is on their passport, then in this case you can call those few Albanians with an old ex-YU passport as an old ex-Yugoslavian but never a Serbian citizen.

Rogozin=Zhirinovski,
He should uphold the laws of its own country, becasue as for International Laws he has no clue what that means since Russia is the biggest violator of International Laws.

Where were the Russians during Croatian, Bosnian, Kosovan wars? What did they do to stop Serbian forces attacking little guys? That's right, NOTHING to stop them but A LOT to encourage them. Only the Serb nationalists (including the ones with foreign names) will trust such.

“...one shouldn’t attack the little guy, violate sovereignty, and tear off parts of another country’s territory just because you feel like it.“

Absolutely right!

And to Ahmet: The 'West' has created the international moral high ground on which Russia can now afford to stand.

It has done so through its blatant and shameless disregard for international laws and treaties.

I would, believe me, far prefer to be standing in the corner of my own country but as it has chosen to blindly follow the Bush administration this is impossible.

My hope is for the EU to make a stand against this madness, so at least I feel I am represented by some sane, knowledgable and thoughtful leaders.
(kate, 21 January 2008 13:39)


It's funny how you never think about the fact that one can ask you the same question in return of what you preach or say. You say/agree that one shouldn't attack the little guy just because you like it, yet, you forget that we, Albanians, were little guys for the last 100 years, and Serbia, big guy, attacked us purely because they like it.

I too hope that there are sane leaders in EU who will stand against Serbia's fake offers and their whiter than white lies.
As for disregarding the international laws and treaties, well I gave up trying to teach you, that international laws, are there for everyone to respect and abide to, and not just because the ball is in other side now, you are so adamant for everyone else to follow the rules

. Where were you when the whole world was telling you follow the rules, follow international laws? Where were you when resolution after resolution was made in UN, yet Serbia ignored them? I am sure if you had the power, you would've created different rules for Serbia and Russia and different rules for the whole world. Well sorry to disappoint you but the world cannot run on your terms, despite your wishes.

P.S Bmrusila, I've been asking you 3 times but unfortunately for some reason b92 see it as againts the rules to publish my simple question towards you.
My question is, I am trying again, do you really have a Serbian Passport, if yes, does it say, under nationality, Serbian citizen or does it still say Yugoslavian?

Defending international law refering to russians means fighting against albanians and steal their land their history and culture. Ask russian or Serbian or Greek historians they will say that Scanderbeg was thir heero. Albanians they never exists before. Sudenly they appeare after otoman empire. This mean that albanians were not included in international law.

Now russia cares about Europe been United and feel sorry for other European Countries. We all know this is hipocrizy and it is fake. Russian should mind their own business and stay away of Europe, where they dont belong. Europeans are able take their own business without Russia putting their noise and trying to create artificial problems. Russia outside of European politics now and ever.

Now, Albanians on the Kosovo want to have it all for them self, but they never gave a single cent for it in the past because most of the Albanians on Kosovo today are illegal immigrants or descendants of illegal emigrants from Albania (they escaped from they own country because of the dictatorship of Enver Hodza).


B92 are you SERIOUS?????
How can you let such a provacative comment through? I don't know where to begin to point out all the FALSE and PROPAGANDA to point out/correct.

“...one shouldn’t attack the little guy, violate sovereignty, and tear off parts of another country’s territory just because you feel like it.“

Absolutely right!

And to Ahmet: The 'West' has created the international moral high ground on which Russia can now afford to stand.

It has done so through its blatant and shameless disregard for international laws and treaties.

I would, believe me, far prefer to be standing in the corner of my own country but as it has chosen to blindly follow the Bush administration this is impossible.

My hope is for the EU to make a stand against this madness, so at least I feel I am represented by some sane, knowledgable and thoughtful leaders.

Mr Rogozin is so right, especially when speaking about the division in the Europe in the line of ethnicity and further division in cells within Europe. Instead of strengthening the Europe, Europe allows creation of the weak points. That was very good analysis and sort of warning on the external interference.

to bh nyc:

I am just wondering when you will stop playing the victim card?

If you remember it was those little guys that started the trouble with their nationalistic ambitions of creating ethnically pure states. This is why there was war in the first place. So please stop playing the victm.

I hope that everyone can see it clearly what the Russian and Serbs meant by further "negotiations" regarding the Kosova status.....If you can not understand it...it is time for retirement.

Flamur, UK

I don't know if you ever asked me for my passport, I have never seen that question addressed to me? I just wonder why do you ask that question and what is the link between my passport and what Mr Rogozin stated? I mean, there is no much sense, don't you agree. However, I haven't study deeply what was written in my passport, probably is the old YU. So,what is the point as long as I am a Serbian citizen. I can be a holder of Kenyan passport too and does that makes me a lesser Serb?

Flamur UK: The 'little guy' is in the context of the international stage. That is what matters in this issue now, and what this article is about.

But thanks for reposting my entire comment - you just reiterated my point for me.

Flamur UK, I don't get your point about passports at all. Yugoslavian passports are still valid and many people who now live in the diaspora have a second passport.

What is your point about Serbian citizenship? Serbia is the legal successor state to Yugoslavia, besides which any national with a birth certificate and the relevant documents can get a new passport.

I realise that your question isn't addressed to me, but I'm interested to know the issue. Am I missing something?

Flamur UK: The 'little guy' is in the context of the international stage. That is what matters in this issue now, and what this article is about.

But thanks for reposting my entire comment - you just reiterated my point for me.
(kate, 21 January 2008 16:55)

Kate, I am quoting you, again, not reiterating your point, I hope you know what a " quote" means?
As for my comment, B92 was at it again, omitted a lot of words. So, really, I don't know if I can bother to reply to you again knowing fully well that my comment will be thoroughly edited.

But, just in case it passes b92's moderators, tell me Kate, when I said we were little guys and Serbia was a big guy, this was not relevant to you was it, because NOW Serbia is not a big guy towards little guys, Albanians? What it matters for you is what's happening now, today.

So then, when I say that Kosova should be Independent because is not administered by Serbia NOW, you would agree with me, wouldn't you Kate? According to you, the issue NOW is what it matters, am I right?.

Or maybe, according to your previous posts, when it comes to Serbia, we should go back to history and count how it was yesterday, last year or last decades? How far back do you want to go Kate?

Maybe, as for your wishes, as far as we want but for as long as we don't portray Serbia as someone who breached international laws, treaties etc, then its fine. Is this how you want Kate? We should ignore everything that Serbia did against little guys and only count what is not in the interest of Serbia, including international laws. Even if it means defending the defenceless little guys, as in our case, us Albanians? Or am I trying to twist your words, again?

I think its time for you for a reality check, because as I told you above, comment 6, the world cannot run on your terms or on any particular country or individual. One cannot ignore the international law today and only count from tomorrow or day after. At the same time, one cannot ignore nor forget who ignored/breached the very same international law yesterday or a day before yesterday.

P.S. As for my point about Serbian Passports, well Bmrusila just proved my point and at the same time contradicted herself as well as all those who count Albanians as Serbian Citizens, despite the fact that some Albanians are still holders of old ex-YU passports and not the Serbian passports. Therefore, because I know, the Serbian passport does not exist, she proved that as well herself, then how comes Albanians have one?

She went even further by explaining to us that one can have any passport, even a Kenyan, yet that does not mean he/she is a Kenyan. And I agree with her, even though for the first time, it does not matter if Albanians are holders of old YU passports, how they feel is what it matters. You see Kate, when a Serb tells the truth then is not hard for an Albanian to agree with him/her.

P.S.S In case one jumps and say that whatever passport one has, and whatever it says his/her nationality/citizenship is on their passport, then in this case you can call those few Albanians with an old ex-YU passport as an old ex-Yugoslavian but never a Serbian citizen.

uli

Russia is a European country, culturally more so than Albania.

If you ask me, Albanians want the state "on the plate". That means - the whole of Serbia and the rest of ex-Yugoslavia founded and sent money through the communism era to Kosovo. That money was used to pay for the infrastructure, health care, education, economy and so on, since Kosovo was the far more poorer than any other part of former Yugoslavia. So everything you see on Kosovo today (except Night clubs and topless bars) was in possession of the Republic of Yugoslavia, and after that of republic of Serbia.

Now, Albanians on the Kosovo want to have it all for them self, but they never gave a single cent for it in the past because most of the Albanians on Kosovo today are illegal immigrants or descendants of illegal emigrants from Albania (they escaped from they own country because of the dictatorship of Enver Hodza). Thats why you have so many Albanians in Serbia, in Macedonia, in Greece, in Montenegro and in the Western countries - because it was better to live in these countries than in Albania.
But now, after they have seek a refuge, and we gave it to them - Albanians turned evil in Serbia (on Kosovo), in Macedonia, in the West...

It's like you save a life of some man, gave him a food to eat and house to live in, take away his troubles - and after short period of time he starts to rape your daughter and wife, taking over your house for himself and start to act like he was the one who saved you and he is the one that own this beautiful house since always, and after that he starts to lie and ensure other people that he is the good one and you are the bad one!
Is this OK.?
I THINK NOT.

So, please get into our position! What would you do?

"According to Slovenian and Croatian media who refer to an unnamed Italian diplomat, all EU member-states will recognize Kosovo independence provided unanimity is reached over the date."

Yep, how about the year 9321? But Serbia still wont support it and neither will Russia!

Peter,
It looks like you want to be neutral, but you are not.
As far as who is more European the Russians or Albanians, let me tell ask you how do you measure a country's europeanization? I think that you want to be neutral, but you should read more about the Albanian history, and more over go and visit Albania once a while in order to be more "neutral"?

well, it´s interesting to see the K-albanians here reacting as if they were stung by a bee...

the truth hurts, right?

There are two countries (at minimum) that will always have Serbia's back - Russia & France.

To Flamur/Ahmet - WHO CARES & why should it matter what kind of pasos bmruslia has! If you're currently residing in the UK - good! How many pasos do YOU have & what do THEY say? For weeks/months, we don't hear from you (thank goodness) & then when we do, you are a "Komarac" as is Ahmet!

for (KS, 21 January 2008 22:47)


It is true that Albanians on Kosovo are majority now:
* 92% Albanians
* 4% Serbs
* 2% Bosniaks and Gorans
* 1% Roma
* 1% Turks

But, it wasn't that way always. You can see that if you look how many squares of land, estates and how many factories and mines were in possession of Serbs only in past century. You can see that Albanians started to grow their possessions only after the NATO bombing - by stealing away the properties of Serbs (houses, lands, forests...), by stealing away properties of Republic of Serbia (factories, mines, state buildings, offices...).

Now, nobody is telling this side of the Kosovo story - how much of the Kosovo is legally in hands of Albanians? How can Albanians attract foreign investments after hypothetic independence, if they don't have no settled scores in cartulary? Where are the legal trade papers? Who will buy stolen gods?

This was also a problem in Croatia and Bosnia after war - many people have moved into unoccupied houses and enjoyed in other peoples belongings, and many firms started working by using other firms offices and factories. But, some years after the war - all of those stolen things were given back to their real owners because it was condition to start even thinking of entering the EU. This fate awaits you too on Kosovo.

So let's stop pretending.

Serbs built up roads, factories, houses, schools, hospitals, infrastructure, energy plants, mines, bridges and other things at Kosovo -
and now Albanians want to move in these facilities for free and take it over.

You Albanians can lie to all of the world, but you can not lie to us. We know you.
We will not let you do it that easy.

However, I haven't study deeply what was written in my passport, probably is the old YU. So,what is the point as long as I am a Serbian citizen. I can be a holder of Kenyan passport too and does that makes me a lesser Serb?
(bmrusila, 21 January 2008 16:48)

Bmrusila - you, princip and some others from Serb's camp, always say that Albanians are Serbian citizens, because they have and still apply for Serbian passports. Therefore I asked you in previous posts, if you, have a Serbian Passport, because I know there is no Serbian Passports? For some reason my question was always omitted.

As for your today's reply, then, would you agree with me when I say that an Albanian can be a holder of Kenyan passport too or old ex Yugoslavian passport for that matter but, that does not mean he is a Serbian nor does it make him a lesser Albanian? Just for your info, I do agree with you, it doesn't matter what passport you hold, is what you feel that matters. Passports are just to travel not to show what you have and feel in your heart.

Geni

I was just making it clea rto uli that Russia is a European nation geographically, historically, culturally, demographically and socio-politically, not to mention a great contributor to Western Civilization and mankind, though he seems to think otherwise, saying Russia doesn't belong in Europe, or whatever.

I am not measuring who is more European, though Russia, being a Christian state is culturally more European than Albania, which is a muslim state and thus culturally more distant than Russia is in this case.

I am aware of Albania's history and do not deny that it is indeed an integral part of Europe's history.

Flamur UK,

I have never ask any of you Albanians whose passport do you have or apply for. No, having any passport does not make you any lesser Albanian but it does make you a citizen of the country whose passport you hold. Now, I assume you are the holder of the UK passport and you are their citizen. Yes you may feel as an Albanian and you should but you are still UK citizen and have certain obligations toward the country that you reside. First of all you have to respect the country that you live in. I think that no one in this forum try to make you lesser Albanian but to make you aware whose citizen the one is and the what are the responsibilites of the individuals towards the country that the one lives in. Having YU passport and, Serbia is the legal succesor of ex YU, it does make you a ctizen of Republic of Serbia as long as those passports are valid and as such accepted everywhere officialy.

Peter,

I wanted you to undersstand that Albania is not a moslem state there is a 60% of the pop. which is moslem, but the rest is orthodox and catholic. From those that are moslem, about 50 % belong to a sect that is not so moslem as it is a special conglomerate religion between christianity and islam.
Facts:
1) Albanian have been christian before Russia, Serbia and Poland.
2) Being flexible in religion is more of a European value than being christian.

Peter

I'm not exactly sure what your definition of a "Muslim state" is, but in the case of Albania, it's simply a country where most Albanians are nominally muslim. Over a third of the population is Christian. Unlike other "Muslim" countries, Islam is not the official state religion.

As in most European countries, religion and state remain firmly separated. For years, the country has been flooded with religious missionaries of all types and only God knows who's what anymore. Any spiritual Poles in Albania, would have an easy enough time finding churches around, Catholic, Orthodox, take your pick. I daresay, religious expression enjoys as much as, if not more, freedom in Albania as in other Western countries.

As for Russia...

Whether Russia is European or not is irrelevant, thought they do tend to use their geographical position to suit their interests (Sometimes Asian, sometimes European). Throughout the past couple of centuries they copycatted Western culture (and contributed some back), but one can safely say that the only lasting contribution of the Russians is authoritarianism and a continuous threat to Europe's security.

To Kate and Princip and others touting "international law violations" ...

I find it ironic that the biggest perpetrators of violations of human, minority rights, and what not always hide behind sovereignty and international law when trying to escape punishment. To follow their logic...peoples' lives are far less important than pieces of rocks.

In Bulgaria, Putin called the secession of Kosovo illegal and immoral. I had to laugh at that.

It was like having a pedophile preaching childrens' right.