Putin dubs Kosovo independence illegal, immoral

boys, it´s not "illigel" to speak up on behalf of international law and values that the west usually declares "western" ( without having reason for doing so ).

I can understand you hostile feeling towards this man, since your desperation is finally caused by him.

but, it´s not only Putin´s Russia...

don´t forget, Indonesia, China, South Africa, Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus....
to be coninued...

The comments here are getting more ridicules by the second.

All that needs to be said here is good on you Putin! Thank you for standing for justice. He is a strong leader who has lead the renaissence of Russia's political might. No longer can Albania's brown nosing of the US achieve their evil goals of "kosova" and using NATO to tie the Serb's hands.

We Serbs must just bide our time and develop our economys and we will once again gain the right to defend ourselfs against the Albanians who wish to tear our soul from us and burn our land.

Well, well, perhaps the deal can be abolished between two parties if Bulgaria does not act constructively in the case of Kosovo. Besides, Bulgaria has its own problem with Turkish secessionists. Lets see if Bulgaria play wisely or humbly.

Putin himself the most illigel, immoral, president a country has ever had.

Only in a "Democratic Russia" can such people become head of states.

Imoral? This is new. Seems Putin got tired warning, urging, and teaching the rest of the world about things legal and illegal.
It would be interesting to find out what moral standards does he have in mind. Russian perhaps? Other ways it doesn’t make sense.
Get serious Mr Putin. Moral is a very slippery ground for you to stand on especially when dealing with Kosovo.
I would suggest you stick to the warning and urging. Not that it makes any sense at all, (or difference to be exact) but maybe because it suites your judo skills better.

...illigel, immoral are described most of ex KGB Putins' and his regims'acts.
How about persecution and assassination of his crics, home and in exile.
Billoons of Russian peoples' money in your and your regime members private accounts.
I suggest that to describe his regims acts criminal could be added to illegal and immoral.
So, Car Putin it seems that you are one of the last people on this Planet entitled to preach about legality and moral.

Well, if America can lean on their mates so can Russia.

Its time European countries decided which side of the fence they will sit on. They can no longer sit on the fence but will have to decide which side they will go on.

Things are getting interesting now.

What is wrong with standing
for your country's rights in
the world.Putin has succeded
in elevating Russia's prestige by showing that it
will not be a pushover by the west.One should remember
that in 2003 Putin warned the
US and UK that the invasion of Iraq will be catastrophic.
He does the same thing now by
warning that any illegal UDIs
will lead to regional conflicts and world upheavals.Right saidVladimir.

'Illegal and immoral' - as I have said many times. Truer words were never spoken, and I hope for their own sake that the so called 'civilized west' is listening to this great leader.
Cheers!

Standard Russian hypocrisy. Russia went to war against Moldova over Transnistria, so don't pretend that Russia has values Putin.

Don't worry Putin & Co. Your companies Gazprom and Gunvor will get the 5 year monopoly on Serbian oil supplies that you and Kostunica have schemed up.

Some people here have to realize that the Kosovo independence issue has its pros and cons. One side voices the pros, the other voices the cons, it is everybody's right to determine whether or not they think this independence is right or not. Such is life.

To Peter
"It's everybody's right to
determine if independence is
wright or not".
This is a nonsensical statement and if it was applied every dissenchanted
ethnic group will ask to go
along.This will lead to ethnic conflicts and create
worldwide instability.Unless
there is a consensus between
different ethnic groups that
will lead to partition of a
sovereign country UDIs cannot
be allowed to happen.This is
what the UN is for

Last ditch attempt to devide Europe...old Russian-Serbia tricks.
Nothing can stop Kosova independence even Russia, that would be a double humiliation as that is all Russia is provoking with its policies.
What stopped Russia to come with "compromise" between Serbia and Kosova? What was doing itt representative with the EU and USA representatives during the last talks? The last Russian suggestions is just another demagogy to be on Serbian side. If that what they want fine by Kosovar Albanians but the can not decide for the Kosovars and Kosova and still hold it hostage.

To Joe
It's not Putin who threatens
sovereign nations with
military attacks.Remember the "axis of evil"statement,
the weapons of mass deception
to name the few. Threats
against Iran, N Corea,Libya
don't come from Putin but from western countries.I also
don't agree with your claim
that all the oil in the world
is not going to help Russia.
Russia, a virtually bankrupt
country under Yeltsin, within
a relatively short period of
time has restructured its
economy and its future looks
a lot brighter than many
countries in the west.As an
albanian yourself you wouldn't make these statements if Russia was in
favour of the UDI in Kosovo.

In a few years Albanians will be begging to brush off the past "scuffles and "misunderstandings" with Russia as is customs for Albanians, always trying to side up with the big power. Once Russia dictates all oil/gas supply in Europe. Take note Russia's voice grows stronger by the day.

Once Putin has spoken, thats it done deal. Kiss your future good bye, but its not to late to separate Albania (Republic of) from Europe and float it across the Atlantic to join the USA.

To Joe
What about the non-rogue
countries ie Latin-America.
Was it incidental that all
these countries until recently had military regimes
of the worst kind with 000s
dissapearing without a trace.It is well documented
about the role of successive
US goverments in installing
and propping up these regimes.
I would also disagree with
you on your analysis of US
economic problems. This time
are a lot more serious than
in the past.The fact that
we see Citigroup and Merrill
Lynch, two of the great
symbols of American capital,
forcd to hand round the
begging bowl among Asian and
Middle Eastern sovereign
wealth funds after the massive write-down of US
sub-prime mortgage lending
indicates that things are not
as you describe them.Also the
demise of the dollar as an
international currency will
have severe implications for
US trade and current account
deficit.
On a personal level i regret
thinking you're an albanian
(nothing wrong with being one) and i can also confirm
that iam not a Russian admirer.I support the Russian
position on the Kosovo issue
for reasons of international
law and its institutions.We
can not manipulate the UN for
reasons of political expediency as certain countries do.If the world
becomes a place with no rules
and free foe all we're all
doomed.

DD your predictions for the future my well be false considering that the US's economoy will be in such decline that they will no longer be able to throw money at poor nations (empire dependant ones such as Albania)so wishfull thinking is all you have there my friend.

putin and co. are really the very worst combination of czarist russia and communist soviet union, assuming there ever was much of a difference between the 2 (was there?) their rule really is more AMoral than anything else -- yes, the murder of political opponents, journalists of integrity! is repugnant and almost unprecedented (oh, sorry, i almost forgot about milosevic regime!!)but the civilized world will persevere, and maybe, just MAybe freedom and justice will find its way to russia, sometime in the distant future...

Putin does not just talk the talk he walks the walk, unlike western leaders who are full of pleasant, meaningless words! Listen to him, this is no game! What the West is trying to do in Serbia and has already done is destabilizing the entire world and is a major threat to world peace! This movement is overtly lead by the declining US, a last gasp of Super-power-Dom, soon Germany (the covert player) will assume this role. Russians are not stupid, they cannot allow this to stand and neither should the Serbs, it is about national, ethnic survival. Russia is stepping up to the plate, will Serbia follow or lay down as a Western footstool?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080119/D8U92Q881.html

Serbian Gov: "Fines for products listing Kosovo as separate entity".

The comment: Petty and desperation.

garry,

There is a difference between standing for his country's right and blackmaling weak neighbors, pressuring them with old imperialistic Russian methodes because of the independent policies of those countries. Russia was never a democratic country. There was some hope that she will be but it is pretty clear now that the West has to deal with a new old Russia, where little changed. Regular, almost weekly treatening statements toward the West become routine. Sure it is well known that Russia felt humiliated and has a terrible inferiority complex versus the West but this constant belligerency will work against her. With a population of 145 millions and a GDP relatively modest (between the GDP of Holland and Italy) there is no way that Russia can become again a superpower. No amount of oil money can make it possible.

Who cares about Russia's oil/gas? Just weeks ago, a huge oil reserve was found in north Albania. With the new highway being built by 2012, Albania and Kosovo will be ONE (economically speaking). With Kosova C being built by Americans by 2013, Kosova will sell electricity to Serbia. With privatization of Brezovica Mountain in 2008, we will have Serbs vacationing in Kosova in no time. In conclusion, Putin and others can "bark" as much as they can, but the future is inevitable. Kosova will be independent and all people living in Kosova will enjoy every minute of it.

We Serbs must just bide our time and develop our economys and we will once again gain the right to defend ourselfs against the Albanians who wish to tear our soul from us and burn our land.
(Vuk, 19 January 2008 13:44)

-Oh dear.

So Putin and Lavrov become sober. They had apparently their reality check. Until now both were extremely arrogant, tried to dismiss all posibility of Kosovo's independence as utterly impossible. Most Serbs believed naively that their big brothers are Supermen and they will prevent the inevitable.
I always knew that this day of realism has to come even by the Russians.

Vuk,

I guess in your little corner of Europe they don't teach too much about the functionning of the US economy. It is possible that the US will go into a recession but it is not the first time in its history. It happens from time to time. It will get out of it. It is not like the booming Serbian economy, where there are no downs.
Anyway - even in bad times - the size of the US economy is such that the country still can "throw away billions at poor countries" to use your expression.

Leonidas

I know what the UNSC is for and if you'd read my previous posts, you'd know I side more towards Serbia ideally when it comes to its sovereignty. However, realistically, I believe that the Albanians will achieve their goal, and this is what we must prepare for, not stand behind international law when many of the world's major powers think it needs to be broken here.

I'm sure Kosova's economy will suffer when Russia embargoes us. Think of all the Russian products that won't reach...wait, there are none.

Indonesia? Cyprus? The only real opposition is SCO, it is the counter-NATO. As long as we have the WEST (the powerful) that's all I care.

garry,

As 99% of the posters of this site know I am Hungarian-American and not Albanian. About the countries you listed they are the rogue ones. They are the soul-mates of Russia. As a result Russia helps them...see Iran. Russia's policy is to help all countries, who are anti-West and specially anti-American. The front-lines with Russia, the country you admire so much became very clear lately. I am just wondering how soon Russia will be desinvited from the G8 group, where in the late nineties she was invited graciously by the West.

Joe,

“….blackmaling weak neighbors…..independent policies of those countries….”

Becoming western puppet and get NATO basis is not independency. What would US do to Mexico if Russia makes a deal to get a few “friendly” air force bases over there?

“…. Russia was never a democratic country….”

So? US was never democratic country either, it is typical oligarchy.

“….Regular, almost weekly treatening statements toward the West become routine….”

It is a pure self defense. Russians without any doubt read “The grand chessboard” and closely followed “Project for the new American century”. They saw how west treated Serbs, and they now very well that west would treat Russia in the same way if they just could. Is it strange that they understand the plot and refuse to roll over?

“….this constant belligerency will work against her….”

How? What is too loose? That wonderful western plans don’t materialize? “Friendly, expert” western advices to “reform” their economy to create “democracy” as during Jeltsin years? “Friendly” NATO bases all around the Russian neighborhood? Disintegrating Russia in as much peaces as possible to become more manageable pre industrial source of raw materials for the West?

“…. With a population....GDP...modesty...no way that Russia can become again a superpower. No amount of oil money can make it possible…”

Well, I don’t know what exactly super power means for you. Russia can realistically earn huge amount of money in the near future and invest it in a domestic development. It can also further develop it’s military, especially strategic nuclear forces as a deterrent to any western global domination dreamer. Russia will also be able to protect it’s interest in a neighborhood and in selected parts of the world further away, which Russia considers of vital interest. It will not try to conquer the world as US is doing.

“Roberto, Congratulations for your excellent analysis of putin and co. I fully agree with it.”

You are hurting your credibility on the forum if you think that this is an analysis.

roberto,

Congratulations for your excellent analysis of putin and co. I fully agree with it.

Putin himself the most illigel, immoral, president a country has ever had.

Only in a "Democratic Russia" can such people become head of states.

Imoral? This is new. Seems Putin got tired warning, urging, and teaching the rest of the world about things legal and illegal.
It would be interesting to find out what moral standards does he have in mind. Russian perhaps? Other ways it doesn’t make sense.
Get serious Mr Putin. Moral is a very slippery ground for you to stand on especially when dealing with Kosovo.
I would suggest you stick to the warning and urging. Not that it makes any sense at all, (or difference to be exact) but maybe because it suites your judo skills better.

...illigel, immoral are described most of ex KGB Putins' and his regims'acts.
How about persecution and assassination of his crics, home and in exile.
Billoons of Russian peoples' money in your and your regime members private accounts.
I suggest that to describe his regims acts criminal could be added to illegal and immoral.
So, Car Putin it seems that you are one of the last people on this Planet entitled to preach about legality and moral.

Standard Russian hypocrisy. Russia went to war against Moldova over Transnistria, so don't pretend that Russia has values Putin.

Don't worry Putin & Co. Your companies Gazprom and Gunvor will get the 5 year monopoly on Serbian oil supplies that you and Kostunica have schemed up.

Serbian Gov: "Fines for products listing Kosovo as separate entity".

The comment: Petty and desperation.

We Serbs must just bide our time and develop our economys and we will once again gain the right to defend ourselfs against the Albanians who wish to tear our soul from us and burn our land.
(Vuk, 19 January 2008 13:44)

-Oh dear.

Last ditch attempt to devide Europe...old Russian-Serbia tricks.
Nothing can stop Kosova independence even Russia, that would be a double humiliation as that is all Russia is provoking with its policies.
What stopped Russia to come with "compromise" between Serbia and Kosova? What was doing itt representative with the EU and USA representatives during the last talks? The last Russian suggestions is just another demagogy to be on Serbian side. If that what they want fine by Kosovar Albanians but the can not decide for the Kosovars and Kosova and still hold it hostage.

garry,

There is a difference between standing for his country's right and blackmaling weak neighbors, pressuring them with old imperialistic Russian methodes because of the independent policies of those countries. Russia was never a democratic country. There was some hope that she will be but it is pretty clear now that the West has to deal with a new old Russia, where little changed. Regular, almost weekly treatening statements toward the West become routine. Sure it is well known that Russia felt humiliated and has a terrible inferiority complex versus the West but this constant belligerency will work against her. With a population of 145 millions and a GDP relatively modest (between the GDP of Holland and Italy) there is no way that Russia can become again a superpower. No amount of oil money can make it possible.

Who cares about Russia's oil/gas? Just weeks ago, a huge oil reserve was found in north Albania. With the new highway being built by 2012, Albania and Kosovo will be ONE (economically speaking). With Kosova C being built by Americans by 2013, Kosova will sell electricity to Serbia. With privatization of Brezovica Mountain in 2008, we will have Serbs vacationing in Kosova in no time. In conclusion, Putin and others can "bark" as much as they can, but the future is inevitable. Kosova will be independent and all people living in Kosova will enjoy every minute of it.

Well, well, perhaps the deal can be abolished between two parties if Bulgaria does not act constructively in the case of Kosovo. Besides, Bulgaria has its own problem with Turkish secessionists. Lets see if Bulgaria play wisely or humbly.

boys, it´s not "illigel" to speak up on behalf of international law and values that the west usually declares "western" ( without having reason for doing so ).

I can understand you hostile feeling towards this man, since your desperation is finally caused by him.

but, it´s not only Putin´s Russia...

don´t forget, Indonesia, China, South Africa, Slovakia, Greece, Cyprus....
to be coninued...

So Putin and Lavrov become sober. They had apparently their reality check. Until now both were extremely arrogant, tried to dismiss all posibility of Kosovo's independence as utterly impossible. Most Serbs believed naively that their big brothers are Supermen and they will prevent the inevitable.
I always knew that this day of realism has to come even by the Russians.

I'm sure Kosova's economy will suffer when Russia embargoes us. Think of all the Russian products that won't reach...wait, there are none.

Indonesia? Cyprus? The only real opposition is SCO, it is the counter-NATO. As long as we have the WEST (the powerful) that's all I care.

garry,

As 99% of the posters of this site know I am Hungarian-American and not Albanian. About the countries you listed they are the rogue ones. They are the soul-mates of Russia. As a result Russia helps them...see Iran. Russia's policy is to help all countries, who are anti-West and specially anti-American. The front-lines with Russia, the country you admire so much became very clear lately. I am just wondering how soon Russia will be desinvited from the G8 group, where in the late nineties she was invited graciously by the West.

The comments here are getting more ridicules by the second.

All that needs to be said here is good on you Putin! Thank you for standing for justice. He is a strong leader who has lead the renaissence of Russia's political might. No longer can Albania's brown nosing of the US achieve their evil goals of "kosova" and using NATO to tie the Serb's hands.

We Serbs must just bide our time and develop our economys and we will once again gain the right to defend ourselfs against the Albanians who wish to tear our soul from us and burn our land.

In a few years Albanians will be begging to brush off the past "scuffles and "misunderstandings" with Russia as is customs for Albanians, always trying to side up with the big power. Once Russia dictates all oil/gas supply in Europe. Take note Russia's voice grows stronger by the day.

Once Putin has spoken, thats it done deal. Kiss your future good bye, but its not to late to separate Albania (Republic of) from Europe and float it across the Atlantic to join the USA.

Leonidas

I know what the UNSC is for and if you'd read my previous posts, you'd know I side more towards Serbia ideally when it comes to its sovereignty. However, realistically, I believe that the Albanians will achieve their goal, and this is what we must prepare for, not stand behind international law when many of the world's major powers think it needs to be broken here.

Vuk,

I guess in your little corner of Europe they don't teach too much about the functionning of the US economy. It is possible that the US will go into a recession but it is not the first time in its history. It happens from time to time. It will get out of it. It is not like the booming Serbian economy, where there are no downs.
Anyway - even in bad times - the size of the US economy is such that the country still can "throw away billions at poor countries" to use your expression.

roberto,

Congratulations for your excellent analysis of putin and co. I fully agree with it.

Some people here have to realize that the Kosovo independence issue has its pros and cons. One side voices the pros, the other voices the cons, it is everybody's right to determine whether or not they think this independence is right or not. Such is life.

What is wrong with standing
for your country's rights in
the world.Putin has succeded
in elevating Russia's prestige by showing that it
will not be a pushover by the west.One should remember
that in 2003 Putin warned the
US and UK that the invasion of Iraq will be catastrophic.
He does the same thing now by
warning that any illegal UDIs
will lead to regional conflicts and world upheavals.Right saidVladimir.

DD your predictions for the future my well be false considering that the US's economoy will be in such decline that they will no longer be able to throw money at poor nations (empire dependant ones such as Albania)so wishfull thinking is all you have there my friend.

putin and co. are really the very worst combination of czarist russia and communist soviet union, assuming there ever was much of a difference between the 2 (was there?) their rule really is more AMoral than anything else -- yes, the murder of political opponents, journalists of integrity! is repugnant and almost unprecedented (oh, sorry, i almost forgot about milosevic regime!!)but the civilized world will persevere, and maybe, just MAybe freedom and justice will find its way to russia, sometime in the distant future...

Well, if America can lean on their mates so can Russia.

Its time European countries decided which side of the fence they will sit on. They can no longer sit on the fence but will have to decide which side they will go on.

Things are getting interesting now.

To Peter
"It's everybody's right to
determine if independence is
wright or not".
This is a nonsensical statement and if it was applied every dissenchanted
ethnic group will ask to go
along.This will lead to ethnic conflicts and create
worldwide instability.Unless
there is a consensus between
different ethnic groups that
will lead to partition of a
sovereign country UDIs cannot
be allowed to happen.This is
what the UN is for

'Illegal and immoral' - as I have said many times. Truer words were never spoken, and I hope for their own sake that the so called 'civilized west' is listening to this great leader.
Cheers!

To Joe
It's not Putin who threatens
sovereign nations with
military attacks.Remember the "axis of evil"statement,
the weapons of mass deception
to name the few. Threats
against Iran, N Corea,Libya
don't come from Putin but from western countries.I also
don't agree with your claim
that all the oil in the world
is not going to help Russia.
Russia, a virtually bankrupt
country under Yeltsin, within
a relatively short period of
time has restructured its
economy and its future looks
a lot brighter than many
countries in the west.As an
albanian yourself you wouldn't make these statements if Russia was in
favour of the UDI in Kosovo.

To Joe
What about the non-rogue
countries ie Latin-America.
Was it incidental that all
these countries until recently had military regimes
of the worst kind with 000s
dissapearing without a trace.It is well documented
about the role of successive
US goverments in installing
and propping up these regimes.
I would also disagree with
you on your analysis of US
economic problems. This time
are a lot more serious than
in the past.The fact that
we see Citigroup and Merrill
Lynch, two of the great
symbols of American capital,
forcd to hand round the
begging bowl among Asian and
Middle Eastern sovereign
wealth funds after the massive write-down of US
sub-prime mortgage lending
indicates that things are not
as you describe them.Also the
demise of the dollar as an
international currency will
have severe implications for
US trade and current account
deficit.
On a personal level i regret
thinking you're an albanian
(nothing wrong with being one) and i can also confirm
that iam not a Russian admirer.I support the Russian
position on the Kosovo issue
for reasons of international
law and its institutions.We
can not manipulate the UN for
reasons of political expediency as certain countries do.If the world
becomes a place with no rules
and free foe all we're all
doomed.

Putin does not just talk the talk he walks the walk, unlike western leaders who are full of pleasant, meaningless words! Listen to him, this is no game! What the West is trying to do in Serbia and has already done is destabilizing the entire world and is a major threat to world peace! This movement is overtly lead by the declining US, a last gasp of Super-power-Dom, soon Germany (the covert player) will assume this role. Russians are not stupid, they cannot allow this to stand and neither should the Serbs, it is about national, ethnic survival. Russia is stepping up to the plate, will Serbia follow or lay down as a Western footstool?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080119/D8U92Q881.html

Joe,

“….blackmaling weak neighbors…..independent policies of those countries….”

Becoming western puppet and get NATO basis is not independency. What would US do to Mexico if Russia makes a deal to get a few “friendly” air force bases over there?

“…. Russia was never a democratic country….”

So? US was never democratic country either, it is typical oligarchy.

“….Regular, almost weekly treatening statements toward the West become routine….”

It is a pure self defense. Russians without any doubt read “The grand chessboard” and closely followed “Project for the new American century”. They saw how west treated Serbs, and they now very well that west would treat Russia in the same way if they just could. Is it strange that they understand the plot and refuse to roll over?

“….this constant belligerency will work against her….”

How? What is too loose? That wonderful western plans don’t materialize? “Friendly, expert” western advices to “reform” their economy to create “democracy” as during Jeltsin years? “Friendly” NATO bases all around the Russian neighborhood? Disintegrating Russia in as much peaces as possible to become more manageable pre industrial source of raw materials for the West?

“…. With a population....GDP...modesty...no way that Russia can become again a superpower. No amount of oil money can make it possible…”

Well, I don’t know what exactly super power means for you. Russia can realistically earn huge amount of money in the near future and invest it in a domestic development. It can also further develop it’s military, especially strategic nuclear forces as a deterrent to any western global domination dreamer. Russia will also be able to protect it’s interest in a neighborhood and in selected parts of the world further away, which Russia considers of vital interest. It will not try to conquer the world as US is doing.

“Roberto, Congratulations for your excellent analysis of putin and co. I fully agree with it.”

You are hurting your credibility on the forum if you think that this is an analysis.