39

Friday, 18.01.2008.

11:17

"Kosovo to proclaim independence mid-February"

The Slovenian ambassador to Prague says he expects Kosovo to declare independence "some time around February 15."

Izvor: FoNet

"Kosovo to proclaim independence mid-February" IMAGE SOURCE
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39 Komentari

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azir

pre 16 godina

The indigenous ethnic Albanians who have lived on their own lands for eternity and whose territory was illegaly incorporated into Greater Greece against the will of the majority Albanian inhabitants.And yet in Greece their existance is denied under pretext their alleged support of the Nazis.When in fact, Albania was occupied at that time and eventually liberated of Germany presence.Greece does have an issue in their refusal to acknowledge the natural, original and indigenous people whom were conquered but still have hope.You would think EU would encourage equal rights and compensation of lost properties to all the Albanian Chams that were illegaly deported under international law.On some issues the Greeks are no differant than the Serbians.

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nesha

pre 16 godina

Since it is all very clear now, what Serbia should immediately do is block any attempt by Kosovo (Second Albania) to become a UN member, and immediately break diplomatic relations with Albania, the minute it recognizes Kosovo. Albania deserves this for promoting and illegally helping the rebellion in Kosovo and it's secession. Serbia should also declare Kosovo as occupied territory, since Kosovo would have never achieved independence without foreign intervention. And, last but not least, Serbia should bring the Kosovo issue to the International Court in the Hague.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

BH_NYC,

The point of my comment is that there are states that would recognize a breakaway territory if done through legal channels, and there are states that would do so regardless of circumstance. Turkey recognizes the sovereignty of northern Cyprus, though no one else does. If NK declares independence, Armenia will recognize, though few others will.

Albania has made it perfectly clear they would be one of the first countries to recognize Kosovo's independence, UDI or not. My point is that there will be a rise in the number of semi-legal and semi-sovereign states that have very little international legitimacy. Kosovo, will be one in the event of UDI, but Tirana won't think much of that. As for your statement that "the leading democratic countries are pro-independence", that all depends on the method of independence. Go through the UN and cut a deal with the naysayers, and you'll enjoy full recognition. Do it against international law (yes, it's annoying but it keeps secessionists in place) and you'll be highly dependent on the few states that prop up your government.

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BH_NYC

pre 16 godina

' As Srboslav said Republika Srpska will do the same with all support from Serbia. North of Kosovo will declare de jure independence from the rest of Kosovo the very same day.
(bmrusila, 18 January 2008 16:11) '

K-Albanians have been discriminated against for decades which led to war and this situation we're now. Bosnian Serbs have nothing to complain about hence, no grounds for independence.
Serbia cannot recognise Northern Kosovo as indipendent entity if they still claim Kosovo to be part of Serbia. It wouldnt make much sense, they would have to accept Kosovo indipendence first and then move towards separating the northern 'bit'.


Mike
'....their legality (Turkey - Northern Cyprus; Albania - Kosovo; Armenia - Nagorno-Karabakh), '

You are making this sound as if Albania was the only (or the main) country to recognise K-Independence. If that was the case, not many people would bother discussing this issue here (including you). The facts are that the leading democratic countries are pro-independence, the other ones will need a bit more time to wake up. Whether Slovakia and Russia call this Independence illegal or not, I'll let you and brumsila worry about it.

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robert0

pre 16 godina

first of all, as i have written here many other times, i congratulate the people of kosovo/a for yr imminent independence -- you have to ignore all of the hate talk (as seen daily in these pages) and threats and lies and intimidation, and concentrate on a better future. good people of all nations are supporting yr sruggle, and take joy in yr freedom. even despite the breaking down of borders, it is esssential to have some control over yr lives and yr future. a return of serb forces will never be allowed (in my lifetime).

however -- i must take exception to many of the posters, serb or albanian (or anything else!) who are ready to finish the job of the nationalists of the 90s, and destroy bosnia. it ain't happening! it was bad enough that tens of thousands of people (civilians) were butchered; i will not lower myself here to srcabbing over exact numbers (100,000? 200,000?? whatever!)we are not allowing bosnia to be betrayed, again, because the pride of the nationalsists has been injured, or because so many in so-called republika srpska have been bullied and brainwashed into believing that their future lies inside serbia. but that's another story, actually the real story of the last decade: pure greed and corruption!). bosnia is a separate entity with a very long history, a multi-ethnic one, and the nationalists have attempted to destroy it many times over, but they shall not win. stop using bosnia as a punching bag and pick on someone yr own size...

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Niko

pre 16 godina

To Peter
Your geography is not your
strong point Peter.Epirus is
not in northen Greece.It's
MAKEDONIA in northen Greece.
Epirus is divided in the south which is in Greece and
the north which is in albania.I have personal
experience when i visited
albania and met the Greeks
in northen albania who longed
to come back to Greece.Since
then more than 200000 Greeks
from albania have returned to
Greece.It's a personal offense to call an Epirote
man albanian.
(garry, 18 January 2008 23:05)
Gary,
Get your facts straight. The number of greeks in South Albania is around 50 000. Greece counts as "greeks" every albanian citizen who is Christian Ortodox. That includes Albanians, Greeks and Vlachs. Ethnic greeks are a minority even in the districts where they lived for centuries.
It is true that insulting for an Greek Epirotan to be called Albanian. The same insulting if you call and Albanian Epirotan greek. And Ethnic Greeks from Albania haven't "left" Albania and returned to Greece, just immigrated (they were called "illegal immigrants" too by greek authorities) in Greece for economic reasons after the fall of communism. Just like albanians they immigrated not only there but also in Italy, Germany or USA.
I am one of those "greeks" that you claim to have meet. We left Albania for reasons that doesn't have to do with ethnicity or fear of persecution because of nationality.

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Flalmur,UK

pre 16 godina

Albanian Foreign Minister Ljuljzim Basha says: “The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow."
I think Basha talks against his better knowledge. Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

What will be left of Macedonia in ten years?
(Olli, 18 January 2008 13:28)

Oli, nice try but is this your best argument?
To bring a poll from an open website, which as u know anyone can vote there, even you as a Serb, is nothing but cheap shot.
One cannot rely on such polls, because everyone could vote for their own gain. For i.e you and your anti Independent Kosova camp could quite easily voted for number 3 only so you can a make a point. Nice one but you failed on this one as well.

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garry

pre 16 godina

To Peter
Your geography is not your
strong point Peter.Epirus is
not in northen Greece.It's
MAKEDONIA in northen Greece.
Epirus is divided in the south which is in Greece and
the north which is in albania.I have personal
experience when i visited
albania and met the Greeks
in northen albania who longed
to come back to Greece.Since
then more than 200000 Greeks
from albania have returned to
Greece.It's a personal offense to call an Epirote
man albanian.

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Milan

pre 16 godina

Franc But said that Kosovo would declare independence “probably one or two weeks after the second round of the Serbian elections.”

Why these Slovenian politicians and diplomats keep acting so overratedly? To impress others in the EU that they can handle the EU presidency and behave like they are so important?

"He said that Slovenia, which presides over the EU currently, will call meetings of the EU’s political elite to discuss the Union’s next move within 24 hours of any independence declaration."

So the next move is not known yet or is it and they are afraid to us tell now. I thought the EU was so unified and so the next move would be to recognize Kosovo. Apparently the EU is not unified (no surprise) and politicians in Brussels have no clue what to do next.

"In the meantime, Albanian Foreign Minister Lulzim Basha says that "Priština is nearing an independence declaration."

Do not be so sure of that.

"He told Austrian agency APA that it is “only a matter of weeks before Kosovo is recognized as a sovereign and independent country.”"

They can declare whatever they want, but being recognized (within the UN for instance) is a completely different ballgame.

"Basha said that the Kosovo administration was waiting for the end of the Serbian elections on the insistence of the international community."

No matter who will be the next Serbian President the same will happen and so waiting seems useless to me.

“Priština has decided to turn the chance for independence into a chance for cooperation with the EU, NATO and U.S.,” the minister said."

The is no such thing as equal partnership. It is just new 21st century colonialism in a different package (the new colonies are no longer in Africa, Asia or South America).

"Basha said that Tirana would recognize Kosovo’s independence at the right moment and said that independence was the only solution for long-term stability."

Why wait for the right moment (what is that anyway)? The only solution for long-term stability is not two Albanian states or a Greater Albania.

"The minister said that there was no idea of a Greater Albania being formed."

1+1=2 (it is that simple on paper). In reality many Balkan countries will not allow that to happen, even though it might be the wish of many Albanians.

“The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow,” he said, adding that the future of Priština and Tirana was within the EU."

What about Montenegro, FYRM, Greece, and may others? That future may be many many years away from now.

"He stressed that Serbia needed to stay on the European path, and take the opportunity to “hop on the train to Brussels,” adding that Tirana was following the Serbian presidential elections very closely."

The train to Brussels will lead to nowhere and the schedule and price are subject to change without any notice. I would consider a train to Moscow instead. Europe has betrayed Serbia too many times and will do so in the future.

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Kreshnik Bejko

pre 16 godina

Olli
Mark, go and visit Albanian.com website.
------------------------------

That site is overwhelmingly frequented by Diaspora Albanians, who are more nationalistic.

The peasants on the ground know nothing of the Ahtisaari plan, or what's best for them for that matter.

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Maks

pre 16 godina

So if it’s ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbor country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?
(Srboslav, 18 January 2008 14:17)
First, Kosova as a constitutional part of ex-Yugoslavia has it borders and its independence is the last part of dissolving of ex-Yugoslavia.
Second, Albanian never supported the separation of Serbs in different countries. Suffering separation for more then a century, we do understand the pain of separation. However Serbs had a luxury of redrawing the internal borders of ex-Yugoslavia suggested by Albania since in 1945. At that time Albania wanted from Yugoslavia to set Albanians free and let all Albanian territories to be united naturally in one state, Albania. At that time Serbs refused to do so. Albania even suggested the second solution within Yugoslavian borders for Albanian everywhere in ex-Yugoslavia (Montenegro, Kosova, Preseva, and Macedonia) to be united within Yugoslavia in one unit as Republic of Kosova. They refused the second suggestion also. How in the world now Serbs want to be in the same country??!!!!!
Third, Bosnia as then ex-Yugoslavia is an artificial country. No offence there. But cannot be a nation just Slavs with different religion. Bosnian in my conscience will be Serbs or Croats, whatever their descents are. I cannot change the fact that they were brutally killed, raped and murdered by people with different religion. Bosnians will be prospering if they leave religion aside and decide who they are. Closely they might see Croats as the one where they want to live with in one Federation. However I cannot rule out the possibility that Bosnia will se Switzerland as an example for prosperity but I personally don’t believe it.
Fourth, Albanians believe in freedom and self-determination. Will come a day that Bosnians will decide what to do with their country. It is too soon to compare Srbska Republica and Kosova, but always Albanians will support Serbs to be united in their own country as long they do the same for Albanians in Preseva.

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Gezim Disha

pre 16 godina

There is more Peter.
First there are the arvanites spread every where but mainly in Peloponnesus and round Athens. Then the Christian Chams in their autochthon land in Epirus. These two groups count for about 1/3 of the population of Greece. The Muslim Chams were ruthlessly cleansed from their homeland in Epirus.

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Olli

"And guess what? Option number 3, Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania, beats others. Overwhelmingly. "

If Albania agree to fuse an independent Kosovo into its territory, it's current borders (which were agreed upon in 1949) will change, hence requiring new recognition by the general assembly, with endorsement from the security council (majority vote, as well as all five permanent members). Russia will not allow that.

It would be a very stupid move by the Albanians, and America will not be able to help.

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Ment

pre 16 godina

The only situation that would justify a union between Kosovo and Albania is if Kosovo gets partitioned. At that point, there is no good reason why an "Albanian Kosovo" should be a separate state unless the Kosovar Albanians want it to be so.

Other than that, Basha was correct. In Albania at least, unification of any sorts ranks pretty low in peoples' priorities (if at all). We have bigger things to worry about.

Lids
----

Unless you know something I don't, Albania imports most of its electricity through Greece. A new cable is also being placed that will connect our grid to that of Italy. It's very nice that we do business with Serbia but it is by no means necessary.

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Mark wrote: "i've never once heard of any albanian poll where a unification of kosove w/albania was ever discussed. i think these polls are primarily etched in bathroom stalls around serbia since only serbs seem to be aware of their existence."

Mark, go and visit Albanian.com website.

I only can come to a conclusion that Serbs are better aware of Albanian matters than Albanians are themselves. Mark, don't keep your head in a dirt hole. It's dark there.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

"What do we have after this division? I think real mess!"

bmrusila,

I think what we'll have is a new phenomenon of "semi-sovereign" entities, or "parastates": Kosovo, RS, Catalonia, Nagorno-Karabakh:

These will be entities with a formal government (functionality being relative) that act as if they are independent states but are not formally recognized as such by the international community. Some states may recognize their legality (Turkey - Northern Cyprus; Albania - Kosovo; Armenia - Nagorno-Karabakh), but they will be largely dependent on the goodwill of fully sovereign states as benefactors, and will not be allowed to participate in many international organizations.

We cannot discount the reality of the Pristina government. We cannot discount the reality of the elections. There is a political apparatus on the ground in Kosovo that Albanians look to first over anything else, in much the same way B-Serbs look to Banja Luka over Sarajevo.

But they cannot discount the reality that all roads to formal and legal independence are continuously blocked, and at best, those in support of Kosovo's independence rationalize it as being the "least of all evils" (not an encouraging thought to have if I were Albanian).

With that said, Kosovo's fate, regardless of the lofty and dismal predictions of many here on both sides, will probably function in some gray area of legal sovereignty. The EU wants this problem solved, and if it means making Pristina think they're independent, and making Belgrade think Kosovo is still part of Serbia, then so be it. But like any other parastate, it will be continuously propped up financially, politically, and militarily, by outside powers. Independence, by any stretch of the imagination is purely symbolic.

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mark

pre 16 godina

blero,
i've never once heard of any albanian poll where a unification of kosove w/albania was ever discussed. i think these polls are primarily etched in bathroom stalls around serbia since only serbs seem to be aware of their existence.
now if you're asking would albanians like for it to actually happen, then you'd get support but i'm sure if you asked serbs throughout the balkans if they like to see their people unite...i'm sure you'd get the same response.

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Blero wrote:

"Olli, I do try to avoid sentences like this but I cannot think of any other way to say it.
What a hell are you talking about, what polls and what do you mean by “among Albanians”? If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public would they (coffee bar talks).
I would like to know if any Albanian from Kosovo knows of any polls like this, because I definitely don’t."

Blero,

I wonder should I feel honored to be keeping you up-to-date about Albanian thinking...
Anyway, go and see for example the poll on www.albanian.com.

I provide you a shortcut here. On Albanian.com you are asked:

What is the best option for Kosova?

1. Ahtisari's Plan
2. Unilateral declaration of independence
3. Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania
4. Partition (exchange West Mitrovica with Presheva Valley)
5. Partition (exchange West Mitrovica with Presheva Valley and unite with Albania)

And guess what? Option number 3, Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania, beats others. Overwhelmingly.

In fact I think that you are very well aware about the sentiment and thinking among Albanians. Otherwise you wouldn't write: "If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public".

Or is this all a malicious plot from Belgrade and Moscow?

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GSP

pre 16 godina

Let Prague take care of all of the bloody problems then. Something happens & this independence goes through, it's all PRAGUE'S fault.

As far as the Minister Basha's claim of of a greater albania JUST solely coming from Beograd, that's HOG WASH!!

This is all media hype, just as all the other date claims of independence have come & gone.

Nice try, but no goal!

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

bmrusila

Generally I also do not agree with Kosovo being a "sui generis" case, the only argument against this that I accept is the fact that NATO intervened and the UN set up an interim government, this is the only element making it unique, but this holds as much water as UNSCR1244, in other words, it is the fundamental argument of both sides here.

Regarding EU and UNSC unity, exactly what I was saying, it's an idiotic situation and a real challenge for the international community. I am really curious to know how they will play this one.

garry

Epirus, in Northern Greece.

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garry

pre 16 godina

To peter
Can you name a place in Greece where ethnic Albanians
live or are you refering to
the illegal immigrants living
in Greece.

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bmrusila

pre 16 godina

As Srboslav said Republika Srpska will do the same with all support from Serbia. North of Kosovo will declare de jure independence from the rest of Kosovo the very same day.

Peter,

There is no sui generis case I can bet on this. Otherwise I agree with you but I must say that the EU won't reach unified stand of Kosovo nor UNSC. What do we have after this division? I think real mess!

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Ratko

pre 16 godina

this besha is trying to help albanians steal Serbian land, but he has absolutiley ZERO power. The only thing he can do is listen and take orders from american masters.

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Blero

pre 16 godina

Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

(Olli, 18 January 2008 13:28)


Olli,
I do try to avoid sentences like this but I cannot think of any other way to say it.
What a hell are you talking about, what polls and what do you mean by “among Albanians”?
If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public would they (coffee bar talks).
I would like to know if any Albanian from Kosovo knows of any polls like this, because I definitely don’t.

Let me give you the priorities in order:

1. Freedom
2. Peace (internal and external)
3. Better standard of living
4. Employment (ability to provide for their family)
5. Job security (ability to plan the future)
6. Education
7. Health System
8. Good relations with their neighbours (including Albania and Serbia)
9. Future prosperity


Srboslav,
If Belgrade wishes to recognise Republica Srpska they can definitely do so.
I don’t believe that any Albanian reader will actually contest that.
We know that Serbia has already stated that is will not recognise Kosovo State.
And we can be safe that if north of Kosovo declares any segregation from Kosovo, Serbia will recognise that.
If Serbia wishes, well they can recognise any self-proclaimed state (or reject existence of any recognised state).
Well, Serbia can reject even existence of USA if it wishes.
Will it actually help (or achieve the opposite effect) we don’t know (only the future will tell).

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Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

Listen guys has Hasiim Thaci said he was going to declare independence? I have not seen anything from him keep believing in Fatmir sejdiu When Mr Thaci speaks i will listen any other ahmak i am not listening so Ahmet. What for Mr Thaci

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raso

pre 16 godina

we´re all on high alert!

LOL

no, not really, but maybe (i´m just helping) we should take a look at the facts.

no eu-mission til years end (money, personal or decission)!

so stick to the old floskula: "years-end"!!

but i really do love the humor of the representative of the failed-state called albania. he obviously can´t wait for acknowledgement of indiependence (when the time comes)! ;-)

not to mention that superpower albania acknowledged indiependence in the 1990ies already.

boy, if it realy ever would happen, i would love to see that law.

kind of: ad1) the republic of albania acknowledges the republic of kosovo

ad2) the republic of albania is this time serious with that

;-)

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Pejoni

pre 16 godina

"once again an albanian minister is meddling in serbian affairs..."

UNSC 1244 says it all. amen.
(Jovan, 18 January 2008 13:32)

He has more to say then any Serbian politican, he speaks for 92% of the population, while yours speaks for less then 5%.

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lids

pre 16 godina

Did he say this before or after blackout,let`s not forget even electricity for everyday use in albania comes thru Serbia.And just yesterday big albania was in dark.Let`s guess how dark it will get if they keep on talking like this.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 1
Toni

pre 16 godina

So if its ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbour country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?
(Srboslav, 18 January 2008 14:17)

-Yes that would be ok with me.

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Srboslav

pre 16 godina

So if its ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbour country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 5
Bob

pre 16 godina

“... the people of Kosovo will not endanger the decade-long wish for independence ...”.

Decade-long?

Now there is a lie; the driving out of Serbs predates this by a long way.

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tatiana stojkovic

pre 16 godina

too many events and dates have passed that this independence thing was being tied with. it started with bush visit to tirana, G8 summit, dec 10 NY among others but still awaiting. now comes february but no year mentioned.these are all propaganda knowing that it will never happen i bet.

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

I don't think it's a good idea before there is at least unity in the EU over this matter. Ideally it should the UNSC, but I guess we will never have unity there, and some action would have to be taken to remedy the situation, but it would just look suspicious if some members of a major organization recognize the independence declaration of a region still part of a sovereign state and then send a mission, it only looks like an occupation, sorry to say.

Whatever they do, I hope it works, and that indeed a "Grater Albania" will not rear its ugly head amongst the Albanians of Macedonia, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro. While I am sure many Albanians do not want such a thing and just want peace, the international community needs to closely monitor the regions where Albanians make up the majority in other countries and bring any separatists down, if they take some sort of action after Kosovo is recognized (I for one found it curious that the NLA in Macedonia stated that they want only equal rights, not separation, but then invited NATO to administer the zone, like they did in Kosovo, which already would have made it "de facto" independent from Macedonia). I hope Kosovo will be the end of separatism and that no precedent will become of it, because despite the aesthetics of the "sui generis" case claim, some other ethnic groups may not see this uniqueness.

Either way, I can't see Pristina accepting to be a part of Serbia, so it would be in everyone's interest to prepare for what seems to be inevitable: Independence.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

once again an albanian minister is meddling in serbian affairs...

greater Albania is mentioned by Belgrade and Moscow, uhh?

well, then all those kiddies here in this forum must be from Moscow or Belgrade, right?

stupid statements from a low level politician.

let them declare whatever they want, ...the did it countless times since 1974...

UNSC 1244 says it all. amen.

Preporučujem 21 Ne preporučujem 4
Olli

pre 16 godina

Albanian Foreign Minister Ljuljzim Basha says: “The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow."
I think Basha talks against his better knowledge. Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

What will be left of Macedonia in ten years?

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 5
Srboslav

pre 16 godina

So if its ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbour country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 5
Jovan

pre 16 godina

once again an albanian minister is meddling in serbian affairs...

greater Albania is mentioned by Belgrade and Moscow, uhh?

well, then all those kiddies here in this forum must be from Moscow or Belgrade, right?

stupid statements from a low level politician.

let them declare whatever they want, ...the did it countless times since 1974...

UNSC 1244 says it all. amen.

Preporučujem 21 Ne preporučujem 4
Blero

pre 16 godina

Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

(Olli, 18 January 2008 13:28)


Olli,
I do try to avoid sentences like this but I cannot think of any other way to say it.
What a hell are you talking about, what polls and what do you mean by “among Albanians”?
If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public would they (coffee bar talks).
I would like to know if any Albanian from Kosovo knows of any polls like this, because I definitely don’t.

Let me give you the priorities in order:

1. Freedom
2. Peace (internal and external)
3. Better standard of living
4. Employment (ability to provide for their family)
5. Job security (ability to plan the future)
6. Education
7. Health System
8. Good relations with their neighbours (including Albania and Serbia)
9. Future prosperity


Srboslav,
If Belgrade wishes to recognise Republica Srpska they can definitely do so.
I don’t believe that any Albanian reader will actually contest that.
We know that Serbia has already stated that is will not recognise Kosovo State.
And we can be safe that if north of Kosovo declares any segregation from Kosovo, Serbia will recognise that.
If Serbia wishes, well they can recognise any self-proclaimed state (or reject existence of any recognised state).
Well, Serbia can reject even existence of USA if it wishes.
Will it actually help (or achieve the opposite effect) we don’t know (only the future will tell).

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 5
Olli

pre 16 godina

Albanian Foreign Minister Ljuljzim Basha says: “The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow."
I think Basha talks against his better knowledge. Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

What will be left of Macedonia in ten years?

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 5
Bob

pre 16 godina

“... the people of Kosovo will not endanger the decade-long wish for independence ...”.

Decade-long?

Now there is a lie; the driving out of Serbs predates this by a long way.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 4
tatiana stojkovic

pre 16 godina

too many events and dates have passed that this independence thing was being tied with. it started with bush visit to tirana, G8 summit, dec 10 NY among others but still awaiting. now comes february but no year mentioned.these are all propaganda knowing that it will never happen i bet.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
lids

pre 16 godina

Did he say this before or after blackout,let`s not forget even electricity for everyday use in albania comes thru Serbia.And just yesterday big albania was in dark.Let`s guess how dark it will get if they keep on talking like this.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 1
Ratko

pre 16 godina

this besha is trying to help albanians steal Serbian land, but he has absolutiley ZERO power. The only thing he can do is listen and take orders from american masters.

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

I don't think it's a good idea before there is at least unity in the EU over this matter. Ideally it should the UNSC, but I guess we will never have unity there, and some action would have to be taken to remedy the situation, but it would just look suspicious if some members of a major organization recognize the independence declaration of a region still part of a sovereign state and then send a mission, it only looks like an occupation, sorry to say.

Whatever they do, I hope it works, and that indeed a "Grater Albania" will not rear its ugly head amongst the Albanians of Macedonia, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro. While I am sure many Albanians do not want such a thing and just want peace, the international community needs to closely monitor the regions where Albanians make up the majority in other countries and bring any separatists down, if they take some sort of action after Kosovo is recognized (I for one found it curious that the NLA in Macedonia stated that they want only equal rights, not separation, but then invited NATO to administer the zone, like they did in Kosovo, which already would have made it "de facto" independent from Macedonia). I hope Kosovo will be the end of separatism and that no precedent will become of it, because despite the aesthetics of the "sui generis" case claim, some other ethnic groups may not see this uniqueness.

Either way, I can't see Pristina accepting to be a part of Serbia, so it would be in everyone's interest to prepare for what seems to be inevitable: Independence.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 3
bmrusila

pre 16 godina

As Srboslav said Republika Srpska will do the same with all support from Serbia. North of Kosovo will declare de jure independence from the rest of Kosovo the very same day.

Peter,

There is no sui generis case I can bet on this. Otherwise I agree with you but I must say that the EU won't reach unified stand of Kosovo nor UNSC. What do we have after this division? I think real mess!

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 1
garry

pre 16 godina

To peter
Can you name a place in Greece where ethnic Albanians
live or are you refering to
the illegal immigrants living
in Greece.

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Blero wrote:

"Olli, I do try to avoid sentences like this but I cannot think of any other way to say it.
What a hell are you talking about, what polls and what do you mean by “among Albanians”? If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public would they (coffee bar talks).
I would like to know if any Albanian from Kosovo knows of any polls like this, because I definitely don’t."

Blero,

I wonder should I feel honored to be keeping you up-to-date about Albanian thinking...
Anyway, go and see for example the poll on www.albanian.com.

I provide you a shortcut here. On Albanian.com you are asked:

What is the best option for Kosova?

1. Ahtisari's Plan
2. Unilateral declaration of independence
3. Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania
4. Partition (exchange West Mitrovica with Presheva Valley)
5. Partition (exchange West Mitrovica with Presheva Valley and unite with Albania)

And guess what? Option number 3, Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania, beats others. Overwhelmingly.

In fact I think that you are very well aware about the sentiment and thinking among Albanians. Otherwise you wouldn't write: "If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public".

Or is this all a malicious plot from Belgrade and Moscow?

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GSP

pre 16 godina

Let Prague take care of all of the bloody problems then. Something happens & this independence goes through, it's all PRAGUE'S fault.

As far as the Minister Basha's claim of of a greater albania JUST solely coming from Beograd, that's HOG WASH!!

This is all media hype, just as all the other date claims of independence have come & gone.

Nice try, but no goal!

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Mark wrote: "i've never once heard of any albanian poll where a unification of kosove w/albania was ever discussed. i think these polls are primarily etched in bathroom stalls around serbia since only serbs seem to be aware of their existence."

Mark, go and visit Albanian.com website.

I only can come to a conclusion that Serbs are better aware of Albanian matters than Albanians are themselves. Mark, don't keep your head in a dirt hole. It's dark there.

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garry

pre 16 godina

To Peter
Your geography is not your
strong point Peter.Epirus is
not in northen Greece.It's
MAKEDONIA in northen Greece.
Epirus is divided in the south which is in Greece and
the north which is in albania.I have personal
experience when i visited
albania and met the Greeks
in northen albania who longed
to come back to Greece.Since
then more than 200000 Greeks
from albania have returned to
Greece.It's a personal offense to call an Epirote
man albanian.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 1
Milan

pre 16 godina

Franc But said that Kosovo would declare independence “probably one or two weeks after the second round of the Serbian elections.”

Why these Slovenian politicians and diplomats keep acting so overratedly? To impress others in the EU that they can handle the EU presidency and behave like they are so important?

"He said that Slovenia, which presides over the EU currently, will call meetings of the EU’s political elite to discuss the Union’s next move within 24 hours of any independence declaration."

So the next move is not known yet or is it and they are afraid to us tell now. I thought the EU was so unified and so the next move would be to recognize Kosovo. Apparently the EU is not unified (no surprise) and politicians in Brussels have no clue what to do next.

"In the meantime, Albanian Foreign Minister Lulzim Basha says that "Priština is nearing an independence declaration."

Do not be so sure of that.

"He told Austrian agency APA that it is “only a matter of weeks before Kosovo is recognized as a sovereign and independent country.”"

They can declare whatever they want, but being recognized (within the UN for instance) is a completely different ballgame.

"Basha said that the Kosovo administration was waiting for the end of the Serbian elections on the insistence of the international community."

No matter who will be the next Serbian President the same will happen and so waiting seems useless to me.

“Priština has decided to turn the chance for independence into a chance for cooperation with the EU, NATO and U.S.,” the minister said."

The is no such thing as equal partnership. It is just new 21st century colonialism in a different package (the new colonies are no longer in Africa, Asia or South America).

"Basha said that Tirana would recognize Kosovo’s independence at the right moment and said that independence was the only solution for long-term stability."

Why wait for the right moment (what is that anyway)? The only solution for long-term stability is not two Albanian states or a Greater Albania.

"The minister said that there was no idea of a Greater Albania being formed."

1+1=2 (it is that simple on paper). In reality many Balkan countries will not allow that to happen, even though it might be the wish of many Albanians.

“The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow,” he said, adding that the future of Priština and Tirana was within the EU."

What about Montenegro, FYRM, Greece, and may others? That future may be many many years away from now.

"He stressed that Serbia needed to stay on the European path, and take the opportunity to “hop on the train to Brussels,” adding that Tirana was following the Serbian presidential elections very closely."

The train to Brussels will lead to nowhere and the schedule and price are subject to change without any notice. I would consider a train to Moscow instead. Europe has betrayed Serbia too many times and will do so in the future.

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

bmrusila

Generally I also do not agree with Kosovo being a "sui generis" case, the only argument against this that I accept is the fact that NATO intervened and the UN set up an interim government, this is the only element making it unique, but this holds as much water as UNSCR1244, in other words, it is the fundamental argument of both sides here.

Regarding EU and UNSC unity, exactly what I was saying, it's an idiotic situation and a real challenge for the international community. I am really curious to know how they will play this one.

garry

Epirus, in Northern Greece.

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Toni

pre 16 godina

So if its ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbour country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?
(Srboslav, 18 January 2008 14:17)

-Yes that would be ok with me.

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Pejoni

pre 16 godina

"once again an albanian minister is meddling in serbian affairs..."

UNSC 1244 says it all. amen.
(Jovan, 18 January 2008 13:32)

He has more to say then any Serbian politican, he speaks for 92% of the population, while yours speaks for less then 5%.

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raso

pre 16 godina

we´re all on high alert!

LOL

no, not really, but maybe (i´m just helping) we should take a look at the facts.

no eu-mission til years end (money, personal or decission)!

so stick to the old floskula: "years-end"!!

but i really do love the humor of the representative of the failed-state called albania. he obviously can´t wait for acknowledgement of indiependence (when the time comes)! ;-)

not to mention that superpower albania acknowledged indiependence in the 1990ies already.

boy, if it realy ever would happen, i would love to see that law.

kind of: ad1) the republic of albania acknowledges the republic of kosovo

ad2) the republic of albania is this time serious with that

;-)

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Olli

"And guess what? Option number 3, Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania, beats others. Overwhelmingly. "

If Albania agree to fuse an independent Kosovo into its territory, it's current borders (which were agreed upon in 1949) will change, hence requiring new recognition by the general assembly, with endorsement from the security council (majority vote, as well as all five permanent members). Russia will not allow that.

It would be a very stupid move by the Albanians, and America will not be able to help.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

"What do we have after this division? I think real mess!"

bmrusila,

I think what we'll have is a new phenomenon of "semi-sovereign" entities, or "parastates": Kosovo, RS, Catalonia, Nagorno-Karabakh:

These will be entities with a formal government (functionality being relative) that act as if they are independent states but are not formally recognized as such by the international community. Some states may recognize their legality (Turkey - Northern Cyprus; Albania - Kosovo; Armenia - Nagorno-Karabakh), but they will be largely dependent on the goodwill of fully sovereign states as benefactors, and will not be allowed to participate in many international organizations.

We cannot discount the reality of the Pristina government. We cannot discount the reality of the elections. There is a political apparatus on the ground in Kosovo that Albanians look to first over anything else, in much the same way B-Serbs look to Banja Luka over Sarajevo.

But they cannot discount the reality that all roads to formal and legal independence are continuously blocked, and at best, those in support of Kosovo's independence rationalize it as being the "least of all evils" (not an encouraging thought to have if I were Albanian).

With that said, Kosovo's fate, regardless of the lofty and dismal predictions of many here on both sides, will probably function in some gray area of legal sovereignty. The EU wants this problem solved, and if it means making Pristina think they're independent, and making Belgrade think Kosovo is still part of Serbia, then so be it. But like any other parastate, it will be continuously propped up financially, politically, and militarily, by outside powers. Independence, by any stretch of the imagination is purely symbolic.

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Gezim Disha

pre 16 godina

There is more Peter.
First there are the arvanites spread every where but mainly in Peloponnesus and round Athens. Then the Christian Chams in their autochthon land in Epirus. These two groups count for about 1/3 of the population of Greece. The Muslim Chams were ruthlessly cleansed from their homeland in Epirus.

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mark

pre 16 godina

blero,
i've never once heard of any albanian poll where a unification of kosove w/albania was ever discussed. i think these polls are primarily etched in bathroom stalls around serbia since only serbs seem to be aware of their existence.
now if you're asking would albanians like for it to actually happen, then you'd get support but i'm sure if you asked serbs throughout the balkans if they like to see their people unite...i'm sure you'd get the same response.

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Flalmur,UK

pre 16 godina

Albanian Foreign Minister Ljuljzim Basha says: “The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow."
I think Basha talks against his better knowledge. Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

What will be left of Macedonia in ten years?
(Olli, 18 January 2008 13:28)

Oli, nice try but is this your best argument?
To bring a poll from an open website, which as u know anyone can vote there, even you as a Serb, is nothing but cheap shot.
One cannot rely on such polls, because everyone could vote for their own gain. For i.e you and your anti Independent Kosova camp could quite easily voted for number 3 only so you can a make a point. Nice one but you failed on this one as well.

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Maks

pre 16 godina

So if it’s ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbor country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?
(Srboslav, 18 January 2008 14:17)
First, Kosova as a constitutional part of ex-Yugoslavia has it borders and its independence is the last part of dissolving of ex-Yugoslavia.
Second, Albanian never supported the separation of Serbs in different countries. Suffering separation for more then a century, we do understand the pain of separation. However Serbs had a luxury of redrawing the internal borders of ex-Yugoslavia suggested by Albania since in 1945. At that time Albania wanted from Yugoslavia to set Albanians free and let all Albanian territories to be united naturally in one state, Albania. At that time Serbs refused to do so. Albania even suggested the second solution within Yugoslavian borders for Albanian everywhere in ex-Yugoslavia (Montenegro, Kosova, Preseva, and Macedonia) to be united within Yugoslavia in one unit as Republic of Kosova. They refused the second suggestion also. How in the world now Serbs want to be in the same country??!!!!!
Third, Bosnia as then ex-Yugoslavia is an artificial country. No offence there. But cannot be a nation just Slavs with different religion. Bosnian in my conscience will be Serbs or Croats, whatever their descents are. I cannot change the fact that they were brutally killed, raped and murdered by people with different religion. Bosnians will be prospering if they leave religion aside and decide who they are. Closely they might see Croats as the one where they want to live with in one Federation. However I cannot rule out the possibility that Bosnia will se Switzerland as an example for prosperity but I personally don’t believe it.
Fourth, Albanians believe in freedom and self-determination. Will come a day that Bosnians will decide what to do with their country. It is too soon to compare Srbska Republica and Kosova, but always Albanians will support Serbs to be united in their own country as long they do the same for Albanians in Preseva.

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Kreshnik Bejko

pre 16 godina

Olli
Mark, go and visit Albanian.com website.
------------------------------

That site is overwhelmingly frequented by Diaspora Albanians, who are more nationalistic.

The peasants on the ground know nothing of the Ahtisaari plan, or what's best for them for that matter.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

BH_NYC,

The point of my comment is that there are states that would recognize a breakaway territory if done through legal channels, and there are states that would do so regardless of circumstance. Turkey recognizes the sovereignty of northern Cyprus, though no one else does. If NK declares independence, Armenia will recognize, though few others will.

Albania has made it perfectly clear they would be one of the first countries to recognize Kosovo's independence, UDI or not. My point is that there will be a rise in the number of semi-legal and semi-sovereign states that have very little international legitimacy. Kosovo, will be one in the event of UDI, but Tirana won't think much of that. As for your statement that "the leading democratic countries are pro-independence", that all depends on the method of independence. Go through the UN and cut a deal with the naysayers, and you'll enjoy full recognition. Do it against international law (yes, it's annoying but it keeps secessionists in place) and you'll be highly dependent on the few states that prop up your government.

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Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

Listen guys has Hasiim Thaci said he was going to declare independence? I have not seen anything from him keep believing in Fatmir sejdiu When Mr Thaci speaks i will listen any other ahmak i am not listening so Ahmet. What for Mr Thaci

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Ment

pre 16 godina

The only situation that would justify a union between Kosovo and Albania is if Kosovo gets partitioned. At that point, there is no good reason why an "Albanian Kosovo" should be a separate state unless the Kosovar Albanians want it to be so.

Other than that, Basha was correct. In Albania at least, unification of any sorts ranks pretty low in peoples' priorities (if at all). We have bigger things to worry about.

Lids
----

Unless you know something I don't, Albania imports most of its electricity through Greece. A new cable is also being placed that will connect our grid to that of Italy. It's very nice that we do business with Serbia but it is by no means necessary.

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Niko

pre 16 godina

To Peter
Your geography is not your
strong point Peter.Epirus is
not in northen Greece.It's
MAKEDONIA in northen Greece.
Epirus is divided in the south which is in Greece and
the north which is in albania.I have personal
experience when i visited
albania and met the Greeks
in northen albania who longed
to come back to Greece.Since
then more than 200000 Greeks
from albania have returned to
Greece.It's a personal offense to call an Epirote
man albanian.
(garry, 18 January 2008 23:05)
Gary,
Get your facts straight. The number of greeks in South Albania is around 50 000. Greece counts as "greeks" every albanian citizen who is Christian Ortodox. That includes Albanians, Greeks and Vlachs. Ethnic greeks are a minority even in the districts where they lived for centuries.
It is true that insulting for an Greek Epirotan to be called Albanian. The same insulting if you call and Albanian Epirotan greek. And Ethnic Greeks from Albania haven't "left" Albania and returned to Greece, just immigrated (they were called "illegal immigrants" too by greek authorities) in Greece for economic reasons after the fall of communism. Just like albanians they immigrated not only there but also in Italy, Germany or USA.
I am one of those "greeks" that you claim to have meet. We left Albania for reasons that doesn't have to do with ethnicity or fear of persecution because of nationality.

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robert0

pre 16 godina

first of all, as i have written here many other times, i congratulate the people of kosovo/a for yr imminent independence -- you have to ignore all of the hate talk (as seen daily in these pages) and threats and lies and intimidation, and concentrate on a better future. good people of all nations are supporting yr sruggle, and take joy in yr freedom. even despite the breaking down of borders, it is esssential to have some control over yr lives and yr future. a return of serb forces will never be allowed (in my lifetime).

however -- i must take exception to many of the posters, serb or albanian (or anything else!) who are ready to finish the job of the nationalists of the 90s, and destroy bosnia. it ain't happening! it was bad enough that tens of thousands of people (civilians) were butchered; i will not lower myself here to srcabbing over exact numbers (100,000? 200,000?? whatever!)we are not allowing bosnia to be betrayed, again, because the pride of the nationalsists has been injured, or because so many in so-called republika srpska have been bullied and brainwashed into believing that their future lies inside serbia. but that's another story, actually the real story of the last decade: pure greed and corruption!). bosnia is a separate entity with a very long history, a multi-ethnic one, and the nationalists have attempted to destroy it many times over, but they shall not win. stop using bosnia as a punching bag and pick on someone yr own size...

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BH_NYC

pre 16 godina

' As Srboslav said Republika Srpska will do the same with all support from Serbia. North of Kosovo will declare de jure independence from the rest of Kosovo the very same day.
(bmrusila, 18 January 2008 16:11) '

K-Albanians have been discriminated against for decades which led to war and this situation we're now. Bosnian Serbs have nothing to complain about hence, no grounds for independence.
Serbia cannot recognise Northern Kosovo as indipendent entity if they still claim Kosovo to be part of Serbia. It wouldnt make much sense, they would have to accept Kosovo indipendence first and then move towards separating the northern 'bit'.


Mike
'....their legality (Turkey - Northern Cyprus; Albania - Kosovo; Armenia - Nagorno-Karabakh), '

You are making this sound as if Albania was the only (or the main) country to recognise K-Independence. If that was the case, not many people would bother discussing this issue here (including you). The facts are that the leading democratic countries are pro-independence, the other ones will need a bit more time to wake up. Whether Slovakia and Russia call this Independence illegal or not, I'll let you and brumsila worry about it.

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nesha

pre 16 godina

Since it is all very clear now, what Serbia should immediately do is block any attempt by Kosovo (Second Albania) to become a UN member, and immediately break diplomatic relations with Albania, the minute it recognizes Kosovo. Albania deserves this for promoting and illegally helping the rebellion in Kosovo and it's secession. Serbia should also declare Kosovo as occupied territory, since Kosovo would have never achieved independence without foreign intervention. And, last but not least, Serbia should bring the Kosovo issue to the International Court in the Hague.

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azir

pre 16 godina

The indigenous ethnic Albanians who have lived on their own lands for eternity and whose territory was illegaly incorporated into Greater Greece against the will of the majority Albanian inhabitants.And yet in Greece their existance is denied under pretext their alleged support of the Nazis.When in fact, Albania was occupied at that time and eventually liberated of Germany presence.Greece does have an issue in their refusal to acknowledge the natural, original and indigenous people whom were conquered but still have hope.You would think EU would encourage equal rights and compensation of lost properties to all the Albanian Chams that were illegaly deported under international law.On some issues the Greeks are no differant than the Serbians.

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Albanian Foreign Minister Ljuljzim Basha says: “The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow."
I think Basha talks against his better knowledge. Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

What will be left of Macedonia in ten years?

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Srboslav

pre 16 godina

So if its ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbour country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?

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Blero

pre 16 godina

Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

(Olli, 18 January 2008 13:28)


Olli,
I do try to avoid sentences like this but I cannot think of any other way to say it.
What a hell are you talking about, what polls and what do you mean by “among Albanians”?
If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public would they (coffee bar talks).
I would like to know if any Albanian from Kosovo knows of any polls like this, because I definitely don’t.

Let me give you the priorities in order:

1. Freedom
2. Peace (internal and external)
3. Better standard of living
4. Employment (ability to provide for their family)
5. Job security (ability to plan the future)
6. Education
7. Health System
8. Good relations with their neighbours (including Albania and Serbia)
9. Future prosperity


Srboslav,
If Belgrade wishes to recognise Republica Srpska they can definitely do so.
I don’t believe that any Albanian reader will actually contest that.
We know that Serbia has already stated that is will not recognise Kosovo State.
And we can be safe that if north of Kosovo declares any segregation from Kosovo, Serbia will recognise that.
If Serbia wishes, well they can recognise any self-proclaimed state (or reject existence of any recognised state).
Well, Serbia can reject even existence of USA if it wishes.
Will it actually help (or achieve the opposite effect) we don’t know (only the future will tell).

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Pejoni

pre 16 godina

"once again an albanian minister is meddling in serbian affairs..."

UNSC 1244 says it all. amen.
(Jovan, 18 January 2008 13:32)

He has more to say then any Serbian politican, he speaks for 92% of the population, while yours speaks for less then 5%.

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Jovan

pre 16 godina

once again an albanian minister is meddling in serbian affairs...

greater Albania is mentioned by Belgrade and Moscow, uhh?

well, then all those kiddies here in this forum must be from Moscow or Belgrade, right?

stupid statements from a low level politician.

let them declare whatever they want, ...the did it countless times since 1974...

UNSC 1244 says it all. amen.

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Bob

pre 16 godina

“... the people of Kosovo will not endanger the decade-long wish for independence ...”.

Decade-long?

Now there is a lie; the driving out of Serbs predates this by a long way.

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

I don't think it's a good idea before there is at least unity in the EU over this matter. Ideally it should the UNSC, but I guess we will never have unity there, and some action would have to be taken to remedy the situation, but it would just look suspicious if some members of a major organization recognize the independence declaration of a region still part of a sovereign state and then send a mission, it only looks like an occupation, sorry to say.

Whatever they do, I hope it works, and that indeed a "Grater Albania" will not rear its ugly head amongst the Albanians of Macedonia, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro. While I am sure many Albanians do not want such a thing and just want peace, the international community needs to closely monitor the regions where Albanians make up the majority in other countries and bring any separatists down, if they take some sort of action after Kosovo is recognized (I for one found it curious that the NLA in Macedonia stated that they want only equal rights, not separation, but then invited NATO to administer the zone, like they did in Kosovo, which already would have made it "de facto" independent from Macedonia). I hope Kosovo will be the end of separatism and that no precedent will become of it, because despite the aesthetics of the "sui generis" case claim, some other ethnic groups may not see this uniqueness.

Either way, I can't see Pristina accepting to be a part of Serbia, so it would be in everyone's interest to prepare for what seems to be inevitable: Independence.

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Ment

pre 16 godina

The only situation that would justify a union between Kosovo and Albania is if Kosovo gets partitioned. At that point, there is no good reason why an "Albanian Kosovo" should be a separate state unless the Kosovar Albanians want it to be so.

Other than that, Basha was correct. In Albania at least, unification of any sorts ranks pretty low in peoples' priorities (if at all). We have bigger things to worry about.

Lids
----

Unless you know something I don't, Albania imports most of its electricity through Greece. A new cable is also being placed that will connect our grid to that of Italy. It's very nice that we do business with Serbia but it is by no means necessary.

Preporučujem 1 Ne preporučujem 3
tatiana stojkovic

pre 16 godina

too many events and dates have passed that this independence thing was being tied with. it started with bush visit to tirana, G8 summit, dec 10 NY among others but still awaiting. now comes february but no year mentioned.these are all propaganda knowing that it will never happen i bet.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 2
Toni

pre 16 godina

So if its ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbour country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?
(Srboslav, 18 January 2008 14:17)

-Yes that would be ok with me.

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 2
mark

pre 16 godina

blero,
i've never once heard of any albanian poll where a unification of kosove w/albania was ever discussed. i think these polls are primarily etched in bathroom stalls around serbia since only serbs seem to be aware of their existence.
now if you're asking would albanians like for it to actually happen, then you'd get support but i'm sure if you asked serbs throughout the balkans if they like to see their people unite...i'm sure you'd get the same response.

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Flalmur,UK

pre 16 godina

Albanian Foreign Minister Ljuljzim Basha says: “The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow."
I think Basha talks against his better knowledge. Take a look on polls among Albanians: unification of Albanians is their number one choice.

What will be left of Macedonia in ten years?
(Olli, 18 January 2008 13:28)

Oli, nice try but is this your best argument?
To bring a poll from an open website, which as u know anyone can vote there, even you as a Serb, is nothing but cheap shot.
One cannot rely on such polls, because everyone could vote for their own gain. For i.e you and your anti Independent Kosova camp could quite easily voted for number 3 only so you can a make a point. Nice one but you failed on this one as well.

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robert0

pre 16 godina

first of all, as i have written here many other times, i congratulate the people of kosovo/a for yr imminent independence -- you have to ignore all of the hate talk (as seen daily in these pages) and threats and lies and intimidation, and concentrate on a better future. good people of all nations are supporting yr sruggle, and take joy in yr freedom. even despite the breaking down of borders, it is esssential to have some control over yr lives and yr future. a return of serb forces will never be allowed (in my lifetime).

however -- i must take exception to many of the posters, serb or albanian (or anything else!) who are ready to finish the job of the nationalists of the 90s, and destroy bosnia. it ain't happening! it was bad enough that tens of thousands of people (civilians) were butchered; i will not lower myself here to srcabbing over exact numbers (100,000? 200,000?? whatever!)we are not allowing bosnia to be betrayed, again, because the pride of the nationalsists has been injured, or because so many in so-called republika srpska have been bullied and brainwashed into believing that their future lies inside serbia. but that's another story, actually the real story of the last decade: pure greed and corruption!). bosnia is a separate entity with a very long history, a multi-ethnic one, and the nationalists have attempted to destroy it many times over, but they shall not win. stop using bosnia as a punching bag and pick on someone yr own size...

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lids

pre 16 godina

Did he say this before or after blackout,let`s not forget even electricity for everyday use in albania comes thru Serbia.And just yesterday big albania was in dark.Let`s guess how dark it will get if they keep on talking like this.

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raso

pre 16 godina

we´re all on high alert!

LOL

no, not really, but maybe (i´m just helping) we should take a look at the facts.

no eu-mission til years end (money, personal or decission)!

so stick to the old floskula: "years-end"!!

but i really do love the humor of the representative of the failed-state called albania. he obviously can´t wait for acknowledgement of indiependence (when the time comes)! ;-)

not to mention that superpower albania acknowledged indiependence in the 1990ies already.

boy, if it realy ever would happen, i would love to see that law.

kind of: ad1) the republic of albania acknowledges the republic of kosovo

ad2) the republic of albania is this time serious with that

;-)

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Ratko

pre 16 godina

this besha is trying to help albanians steal Serbian land, but he has absolutiley ZERO power. The only thing he can do is listen and take orders from american masters.

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bmrusila

pre 16 godina

As Srboslav said Republika Srpska will do the same with all support from Serbia. North of Kosovo will declare de jure independence from the rest of Kosovo the very same day.

Peter,

There is no sui generis case I can bet on this. Otherwise I agree with you but I must say that the EU won't reach unified stand of Kosovo nor UNSC. What do we have after this division? I think real mess!

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garry

pre 16 godina

To peter
Can you name a place in Greece where ethnic Albanians
live or are you refering to
the illegal immigrants living
in Greece.

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Blero wrote:

"Olli, I do try to avoid sentences like this but I cannot think of any other way to say it.
What a hell are you talking about, what polls and what do you mean by “among Albanians”? If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public would they (coffee bar talks).
I would like to know if any Albanian from Kosovo knows of any polls like this, because I definitely don’t."

Blero,

I wonder should I feel honored to be keeping you up-to-date about Albanian thinking...
Anyway, go and see for example the poll on www.albanian.com.

I provide you a shortcut here. On Albanian.com you are asked:

What is the best option for Kosova?

1. Ahtisari's Plan
2. Unilateral declaration of independence
3. Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania
4. Partition (exchange West Mitrovica with Presheva Valley)
5. Partition (exchange West Mitrovica with Presheva Valley and unite with Albania)

And guess what? Option number 3, Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania, beats others. Overwhelmingly.

In fact I think that you are very well aware about the sentiment and thinking among Albanians. Otherwise you wouldn't write: "If these polls were among Albanians they would not be public".

Or is this all a malicious plot from Belgrade and Moscow?

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Gezim Disha

pre 16 godina

There is more Peter.
First there are the arvanites spread every where but mainly in Peloponnesus and round Athens. Then the Christian Chams in their autochthon land in Epirus. These two groups count for about 1/3 of the population of Greece. The Muslim Chams were ruthlessly cleansed from their homeland in Epirus.

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Maks

pre 16 godina

So if it’s ok for Albania to recognize illegal breakup of a neighbor country, then it would be ok for Belgrade to recognize independence for Republika Srpska also?
(Srboslav, 18 January 2008 14:17)
First, Kosova as a constitutional part of ex-Yugoslavia has it borders and its independence is the last part of dissolving of ex-Yugoslavia.
Second, Albanian never supported the separation of Serbs in different countries. Suffering separation for more then a century, we do understand the pain of separation. However Serbs had a luxury of redrawing the internal borders of ex-Yugoslavia suggested by Albania since in 1945. At that time Albania wanted from Yugoslavia to set Albanians free and let all Albanian territories to be united naturally in one state, Albania. At that time Serbs refused to do so. Albania even suggested the second solution within Yugoslavian borders for Albanian everywhere in ex-Yugoslavia (Montenegro, Kosova, Preseva, and Macedonia) to be united within Yugoslavia in one unit as Republic of Kosova. They refused the second suggestion also. How in the world now Serbs want to be in the same country??!!!!!
Third, Bosnia as then ex-Yugoslavia is an artificial country. No offence there. But cannot be a nation just Slavs with different religion. Bosnian in my conscience will be Serbs or Croats, whatever their descents are. I cannot change the fact that they were brutally killed, raped and murdered by people with different religion. Bosnians will be prospering if they leave religion aside and decide who they are. Closely they might see Croats as the one where they want to live with in one Federation. However I cannot rule out the possibility that Bosnia will se Switzerland as an example for prosperity but I personally don’t believe it.
Fourth, Albanians believe in freedom and self-determination. Will come a day that Bosnians will decide what to do with their country. It is too soon to compare Srbska Republica and Kosova, but always Albanians will support Serbs to be united in their own country as long they do the same for Albanians in Preseva.

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Kreshnik Bejko

pre 16 godina

Olli
Mark, go and visit Albanian.com website.
------------------------------

That site is overwhelmingly frequented by Diaspora Albanians, who are more nationalistic.

The peasants on the ground know nothing of the Ahtisaari plan, or what's best for them for that matter.

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garry

pre 16 godina

To Peter
Your geography is not your
strong point Peter.Epirus is
not in northen Greece.It's
MAKEDONIA in northen Greece.
Epirus is divided in the south which is in Greece and
the north which is in albania.I have personal
experience when i visited
albania and met the Greeks
in northen albania who longed
to come back to Greece.Since
then more than 200000 Greeks
from albania have returned to
Greece.It's a personal offense to call an Epirote
man albanian.

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BH_NYC

pre 16 godina

' As Srboslav said Republika Srpska will do the same with all support from Serbia. North of Kosovo will declare de jure independence from the rest of Kosovo the very same day.
(bmrusila, 18 January 2008 16:11) '

K-Albanians have been discriminated against for decades which led to war and this situation we're now. Bosnian Serbs have nothing to complain about hence, no grounds for independence.
Serbia cannot recognise Northern Kosovo as indipendent entity if they still claim Kosovo to be part of Serbia. It wouldnt make much sense, they would have to accept Kosovo indipendence first and then move towards separating the northern 'bit'.


Mike
'....their legality (Turkey - Northern Cyprus; Albania - Kosovo; Armenia - Nagorno-Karabakh), '

You are making this sound as if Albania was the only (or the main) country to recognise K-Independence. If that was the case, not many people would bother discussing this issue here (including you). The facts are that the leading democratic countries are pro-independence, the other ones will need a bit more time to wake up. Whether Slovakia and Russia call this Independence illegal or not, I'll let you and brumsila worry about it.

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Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

Listen guys has Hasiim Thaci said he was going to declare independence? I have not seen anything from him keep believing in Fatmir sejdiu When Mr Thaci speaks i will listen any other ahmak i am not listening so Ahmet. What for Mr Thaci

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GSP

pre 16 godina

Let Prague take care of all of the bloody problems then. Something happens & this independence goes through, it's all PRAGUE'S fault.

As far as the Minister Basha's claim of of a greater albania JUST solely coming from Beograd, that's HOG WASH!!

This is all media hype, just as all the other date claims of independence have come & gone.

Nice try, but no goal!

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

bmrusila

Generally I also do not agree with Kosovo being a "sui generis" case, the only argument against this that I accept is the fact that NATO intervened and the UN set up an interim government, this is the only element making it unique, but this holds as much water as UNSCR1244, in other words, it is the fundamental argument of both sides here.

Regarding EU and UNSC unity, exactly what I was saying, it's an idiotic situation and a real challenge for the international community. I am really curious to know how they will play this one.

garry

Epirus, in Northern Greece.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

"What do we have after this division? I think real mess!"

bmrusila,

I think what we'll have is a new phenomenon of "semi-sovereign" entities, or "parastates": Kosovo, RS, Catalonia, Nagorno-Karabakh:

These will be entities with a formal government (functionality being relative) that act as if they are independent states but are not formally recognized as such by the international community. Some states may recognize their legality (Turkey - Northern Cyprus; Albania - Kosovo; Armenia - Nagorno-Karabakh), but they will be largely dependent on the goodwill of fully sovereign states as benefactors, and will not be allowed to participate in many international organizations.

We cannot discount the reality of the Pristina government. We cannot discount the reality of the elections. There is a political apparatus on the ground in Kosovo that Albanians look to first over anything else, in much the same way B-Serbs look to Banja Luka over Sarajevo.

But they cannot discount the reality that all roads to formal and legal independence are continuously blocked, and at best, those in support of Kosovo's independence rationalize it as being the "least of all evils" (not an encouraging thought to have if I were Albanian).

With that said, Kosovo's fate, regardless of the lofty and dismal predictions of many here on both sides, will probably function in some gray area of legal sovereignty. The EU wants this problem solved, and if it means making Pristina think they're independent, and making Belgrade think Kosovo is still part of Serbia, then so be it. But like any other parastate, it will be continuously propped up financially, politically, and militarily, by outside powers. Independence, by any stretch of the imagination is purely symbolic.

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Olli

pre 16 godina

Mark wrote: "i've never once heard of any albanian poll where a unification of kosove w/albania was ever discussed. i think these polls are primarily etched in bathroom stalls around serbia since only serbs seem to be aware of their existence."

Mark, go and visit Albanian.com website.

I only can come to a conclusion that Serbs are better aware of Albanian matters than Albanians are themselves. Mark, don't keep your head in a dirt hole. It's dark there.

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Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Olli

"And guess what? Option number 3, Unilateral declaration of independence and unite with Albania, beats others. Overwhelmingly. "

If Albania agree to fuse an independent Kosovo into its territory, it's current borders (which were agreed upon in 1949) will change, hence requiring new recognition by the general assembly, with endorsement from the security council (majority vote, as well as all five permanent members). Russia will not allow that.

It would be a very stupid move by the Albanians, and America will not be able to help.

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Milan

pre 16 godina

Franc But said that Kosovo would declare independence “probably one or two weeks after the second round of the Serbian elections.”

Why these Slovenian politicians and diplomats keep acting so overratedly? To impress others in the EU that they can handle the EU presidency and behave like they are so important?

"He said that Slovenia, which presides over the EU currently, will call meetings of the EU’s political elite to discuss the Union’s next move within 24 hours of any independence declaration."

So the next move is not known yet or is it and they are afraid to us tell now. I thought the EU was so unified and so the next move would be to recognize Kosovo. Apparently the EU is not unified (no surprise) and politicians in Brussels have no clue what to do next.

"In the meantime, Albanian Foreign Minister Lulzim Basha says that "Priština is nearing an independence declaration."

Do not be so sure of that.

"He told Austrian agency APA that it is “only a matter of weeks before Kosovo is recognized as a sovereign and independent country.”"

They can declare whatever they want, but being recognized (within the UN for instance) is a completely different ballgame.

"Basha said that the Kosovo administration was waiting for the end of the Serbian elections on the insistence of the international community."

No matter who will be the next Serbian President the same will happen and so waiting seems useless to me.

“Priština has decided to turn the chance for independence into a chance for cooperation with the EU, NATO and U.S.,” the minister said."

The is no such thing as equal partnership. It is just new 21st century colonialism in a different package (the new colonies are no longer in Africa, Asia or South America).

"Basha said that Tirana would recognize Kosovo’s independence at the right moment and said that independence was the only solution for long-term stability."

Why wait for the right moment (what is that anyway)? The only solution for long-term stability is not two Albanian states or a Greater Albania.

"The minister said that there was no idea of a Greater Albania being formed."

1+1=2 (it is that simple on paper). In reality many Balkan countries will not allow that to happen, even though it might be the wish of many Albanians.

“The idea of a Greater Albania is coming primarily from Belgrade and Moscow,” he said, adding that the future of Priština and Tirana was within the EU."

What about Montenegro, FYRM, Greece, and may others? That future may be many many years away from now.

"He stressed that Serbia needed to stay on the European path, and take the opportunity to “hop on the train to Brussels,” adding that Tirana was following the Serbian presidential elections very closely."

The train to Brussels will lead to nowhere and the schedule and price are subject to change without any notice. I would consider a train to Moscow instead. Europe has betrayed Serbia too many times and will do so in the future.

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Niko

pre 16 godina

To Peter
Your geography is not your
strong point Peter.Epirus is
not in northen Greece.It's
MAKEDONIA in northen Greece.
Epirus is divided in the south which is in Greece and
the north which is in albania.I have personal
experience when i visited
albania and met the Greeks
in northen albania who longed
to come back to Greece.Since
then more than 200000 Greeks
from albania have returned to
Greece.It's a personal offense to call an Epirote
man albanian.
(garry, 18 January 2008 23:05)
Gary,
Get your facts straight. The number of greeks in South Albania is around 50 000. Greece counts as "greeks" every albanian citizen who is Christian Ortodox. That includes Albanians, Greeks and Vlachs. Ethnic greeks are a minority even in the districts where they lived for centuries.
It is true that insulting for an Greek Epirotan to be called Albanian. The same insulting if you call and Albanian Epirotan greek. And Ethnic Greeks from Albania haven't "left" Albania and returned to Greece, just immigrated (they were called "illegal immigrants" too by greek authorities) in Greece for economic reasons after the fall of communism. Just like albanians they immigrated not only there but also in Italy, Germany or USA.
I am one of those "greeks" that you claim to have meet. We left Albania for reasons that doesn't have to do with ethnicity or fear of persecution because of nationality.

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Mike

pre 16 godina

BH_NYC,

The point of my comment is that there are states that would recognize a breakaway territory if done through legal channels, and there are states that would do so regardless of circumstance. Turkey recognizes the sovereignty of northern Cyprus, though no one else does. If NK declares independence, Armenia will recognize, though few others will.

Albania has made it perfectly clear they would be one of the first countries to recognize Kosovo's independence, UDI or not. My point is that there will be a rise in the number of semi-legal and semi-sovereign states that have very little international legitimacy. Kosovo, will be one in the event of UDI, but Tirana won't think much of that. As for your statement that "the leading democratic countries are pro-independence", that all depends on the method of independence. Go through the UN and cut a deal with the naysayers, and you'll enjoy full recognition. Do it against international law (yes, it's annoying but it keeps secessionists in place) and you'll be highly dependent on the few states that prop up your government.

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nesha

pre 16 godina

Since it is all very clear now, what Serbia should immediately do is block any attempt by Kosovo (Second Albania) to become a UN member, and immediately break diplomatic relations with Albania, the minute it recognizes Kosovo. Albania deserves this for promoting and illegally helping the rebellion in Kosovo and it's secession. Serbia should also declare Kosovo as occupied territory, since Kosovo would have never achieved independence without foreign intervention. And, last but not least, Serbia should bring the Kosovo issue to the International Court in the Hague.

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azir

pre 16 godina

The indigenous ethnic Albanians who have lived on their own lands for eternity and whose territory was illegaly incorporated into Greater Greece against the will of the majority Albanian inhabitants.And yet in Greece their existance is denied under pretext their alleged support of the Nazis.When in fact, Albania was occupied at that time and eventually liberated of Germany presence.Greece does have an issue in their refusal to acknowledge the natural, original and indigenous people whom were conquered but still have hope.You would think EU would encourage equal rights and compensation of lost properties to all the Albanian Chams that were illegaly deported under international law.On some issues the Greeks are no differant than the Serbians.

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