Holland: No SAA without Mladić

The SAA and its entire contents are the product of talks between the EU and Serbia as an equal partner, and without prejudicing Kosovo’s future status,” Rehn stressed.


- This equal we have seen already Mr Rehn. What is next? And please do not mislead Serbs any longer by claiming that Kosovo and Serbia's EU integrations are two different processes. It is an utter tale that you are promoting in Serbia.

“The agreement is not something the EU imposes on any country, but is rather a recognition of privileged relations with the Union that brings tangible benefits,” he added.

- Said Mr Rehn and still alive after this another tale. Why would I feel priviledged to be in the EU and treated as second class citizen? What is the priviledge? To use the development funds that will be revoked as soon as Serbia opposes to the EU at some point.
I guess he meant this kind of priviledge and equality! According to the EU, the priviledge and equality is when the EU says to you what can you sell out and to whom. We did not yet sign the SAA and the EU already begun meddling with Serbia's state owned assets dictating what and to whom to be sold out.

Well, I do not want that kind of priviledge and equality that you offer Mr Rehn on the behalf of the EU.

Last year, German Ambassador Zobel provided strategic information to Serbia - EU will not accept Serbia as a member in the next 20 years.
Serbian Government disregarded this information, like Stalin did with Zorge's information.

There will always be some kind of request that Serbia can not meet.

Today, Holland requests Mladic. Tomorrow, UK may request Nessie.

RE: Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic

The representative of Holland should be speaking with high level sources at the United States (Holbrook, Albright,Clinton, et al) who signed a secret pact to protect both Karadzic and Mladic so that the Dayton Accord would be passed.

They may have a chance if Hilary Clinton is elected and the gong show of the democtratic party behind her will be placed in key positions.

Further, Holland should launch and inquiry into the conduct of Dutch forces in Srebrinica. The Dutch forces and commanders testimony from new sources do not match what the Bosnian Muslim Government in relation to the "mass gravesites" in Srebrinica.

No surprise here. Just like in case of Croatia and gen. Gotovina.
You really have to appreciate the consistency of principles of EU.
The same rule applies for all. Or yet another “unique case”?

How ridiculous. The Serbian leaders are doing everything possible to work with Europe, as long as its territorial integrity is respected over Kosovo.

Now the transfer of one man to the Hague, on the word of Carla, is creating a stumbling block to the entire process.

If there was ever a way to alienate a nation, this is it.

Great move by Holland, they know they made a huge misstake back in 1995, now they want to save face.

yeah, right, 2 weeks after kostunica killed saa!

this is nearly as embrassing, as a 9 year dreamtalk about "indiependence"!

Way to go, Holland. Don't let Serbia dictate to the EU!

Why is Serbia responsible for the capture of a Bosnian (Serb) military commander and a Montenegrin politician of an entity outside of Serbia's direct control? Why is their membership in the EU contingent upon two men that are not citizens of Serbia?

Shouldn't Bosnia or Republika Srpska look for Mladic and Karadzic? (With Montenegro's help in the latter case)

How was this circus allowed to run for so long? Why isn't Albania held accountable for the crimes committed by the Kosovar Albanians?

Why do double standards always apply to Serbs? Croatia can be independent but Krajina can't? Kosovar Albanians can secede from Serbia but the Kosovo Serbs cannot break from 'kosova'.

You know, I may not agree with this, but if Russia or Cyprus can block Kosovo's independence, Holland can block Serbia's EU ascension.

It's not an issue of what should or should not happen; it's an issue of what one state can still do in an international body where unanimous consensus is needed. However, I also strongly feel that if barriers could be bypassed for one, it should be bypassed for others:

In other words, if let's say Kosovo is given independence despite the legal obstacles, Serbia should automatically be signed into the SAA. International law can by blisteringly annoying at times, but it certainly keeps things in order.

How ridiculous. The Serbian leaders are doing everything possible to work with Europe, as long as its territorial integrity is respected over Kosovo.

Now the transfer of one man to the Hague, on the word of Carla, is creating a stumbling block to the entire process.

If there was ever a way to alienate a nation, this is it.
(kate, 17 January 2008 16:36)

kate,
it has to do w/much more then (1) man. nevertheless, belgrade refuses to turn him over and that's the example they are setting for themselves. that same man is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. it's more to do w/the symbolism behind it and don't forget that many dutch who were UN soldiers patrolling in bosnia at that time could do nothing to prevent it. they are determined to bag YOUR man.
doesn't it bother some of you that that's what many serbs are viewed as around the globe? MASS MURDERERS of woman & children. i'll be the 1st to admit there are plenty of good serbian people, and i'm albanian, but the so-called moderates are lost in the mix and don't make enough of an effort to silence the radicals.

with respect to your opinion but most of the population in Serbia proper want to be in EU. You see, even Nikolic says that Serbias future is EU not isolation as you propose.
Mate, I knwo that changes are difficult to cope with but you have to get used to.After all we are living in a dynamic world. Be part of it.

I guess, this settles it. Since they don't know where is Mladic, there is nothing to hope for when it comes to EU. There is no other way, like it or not, but to turn to Russians. Tadic just lost the elections.

Mike: "In other words, if let's say Kosovo is given independence despite the legal obstacles, Serbia should automatically be signed into the SAA."

I do get your point (and suspect tht's the message they are also trying the send).

But how can you possibly compare 15% of your national territory with becoming members of the jolly EU?!

We are talking about genocide here, and the fact that the chief alleged architect of the genocide at Srebrenica lived freely in Serbia for many years when Vojislav Kostunica was prime minister. In blatant defiance of international law obligating all states to send indictees to the Hague. Vote for Nikolic, or write in Putin for that matter won't change the facts regarding who was responsible for Europe's first genocide since world war II. There are actions, there are consequences

I don´t think that the dutch threat is a threat at all...

remember:

"With so much at stake, the West must ask itself whether a free Kosovo is worth further humiliating a volatile, Russia-backed Belgrade in the heart of the Balkans. This is one small, poor Eastern state that the EU may eventually want more than it wants the EU."

that says it all. the Dutch can ask for whatever they want the whole day... Serbia has alternatives, the EU has not.

yes, and lest we forget that holland was also the epicenter of the african slave trade.

Why does this Dutch gentleman not go to Moscow and see if Mladic is having dinner with Litvinetko?Stop mixing politics with economics.The EU works great as an economic/free trde area so focus on that instead of pseudo political goals.

I am a Serb myself with the Serbian passport and right to vote where ever I live. Besides if you are interested that much, yes I do live in Serbia. Satisified?
(bmrusila, 18 January 2008 09:22)

Bmrusila, can you please be honest with us, even for once, and tell us, on your "Serbian Passport" does it say you are Serbian national or otherwise? Please just check your passport and read under Nationality, what does it say?
As far as I know, and that is a fact, there is no Serbian Passport, they don't exist. But if you and Princip have one, then you must be the only two people in this planet to have these Serbian Passports.

I don't understand why is so hard for someone to tell the truth?

Kate,

Thanks for enlighting us regading the Serbia's "right" of territorial integrity regarding Kosova? Did you forget Serbia's "rights" of territorial integrity over Kroatia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Bosnia Hercegovina...)

Mike I agree with you regarding the possibility of recognition of Kosova independence and SAA agreement with Serbia. The only problem is that Serbia still has to hand over its war criminals.....)

Now the transfer of one man to the Hague, on the word of Carla, is creating a stumbling block to the entire process.

If there was ever a way to alienate a nation, this is it.
(kate, 17 January 2008 16:36)

Kate, the spokewoman of international law, today you ignored the very fundamental point of law, international law for that matter.
The law says that everyone who committed a crime must be brought to justice.

Today from your comment, we can see that you:
A) either do not accept the fact the this one man has committed a crime-genocide, hence EU should not demand for his arrest
or
B) you don't mind that all those people that were killed by this one man and because they were not Serbs, hence your surprise, why they demand his arrest on the word of Carla ?

It is the same as if you've said about Hitler, why bother accusing him about genocide, he was one man, and if there was ever a way to alienate a nation(Germans), this is it.

I always knew that it would be just matter of time before you expose the real Kate, and you did today. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

Teli,

Who do you think you are to tell me that I have no right to speak on the behalf of Serbian citizens since I am a Serb myself with the Serbian passport and right to vote where ever I live. I have right on my own opinion and if you have problem with that then I cannot help you. Besides if you are interested that much, yes I do live in Serbia. Satisified? And don't forget that every Serb in this planet is entitled of having a Serbian citizenship where ever they live and that means right to vote in Serbian embassies all over the world.

Stuart: "We are talking about genocide here, and the fact that the chief alleged architect of the genocide at Srebrenica lived freely in Serbia for many years when Vojislav Kostunica was prime minister."

Only a few months ago Carla Del Ponte reported that the ICTY was satisfied with Serbia's cooperation. She seems to have since back-tracked probably related to the frustration of her departure.

There were horrific crimes carried out by all groups in Bosnia, not just Serbians. And what about the role of the Dutch UN troops in Srebrenica who disarmed the locals and then just watched the terrible events unfold?

Do you think that the Bosnian Muslims or Croatians would not have done the same? I agree that all of these terrible crimes should be tried wherever possible, but you can't hold up the access of Serbia into the EU (if they even want it) because of the trial of Mladic re. Bosnia.

The two should be treated as separate issues entirely.

In the meantime it would be good to see some balanced reporting of crimes in the Balkans. In the UK there is barely any mention of any Serbians that died in Bosnia or Kosovo (or in Serbia during the bombing).

What about justice for those people? They deserve respect, sympathy and justice just as much as any other group.

Flamur UK - you can attempt to twist my words as you like, but I never said Mladic shouldn't be tried, or that he was innocent or guilty.

I said that it shouldn't be connected to Serbia joining the EU.

Really, I was pretty clear in my original comment, but if you need things explaining then so be it.

bmrusila, Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA)agreement is signed by all countries that are inspired to be part of EU. The conditions are specifically to each country. For Serbia as it was for Croatia, full Hague cooperation is a condition of signing the Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU. The different conditions are for Macedonia or Albania. But there are conditions for every country to sign the agreement. Why should be different with Serbia. There is no “second citizen” issue here.

Well, I do not want that kind of priviledge and equality that you offer Mr Rehn on the behalf of the EU.
(bmrusila, 17 January 2008 10:55)

-Sorry to ask but do you actually live in Serbia. Because if not then you have no right whatsoever to speak on behalf of Serbias citizens.

hurray and thank god for holland. no one (sane) can claim that holland is a "pawn of the west." true, the dutch forces performed abominably at srebrenica, no thanks to the less than honorable UN, and west in General. not to mention the actual perpetrators of the genocide, lest we forget! holland is one of the few countries in the world with integrity, however spotty its past. genocide (look it up, boys and girls, it ain't pretty!) is not negotiable, not for people w any sense of right or wrong.

thank god for holland!!

This statement supposes that Serbia is complicate in hiding war criminals and that is a dangerous supposition to make.

Kate, by reading your comments you obviously either don't have a clue that Serbia must be held accountable for it war time criminal's actions it supported, financed and sheltered or you're just being Serbian-like in that denile, minimization of responsibility, outright lies and wishfull thinking are traits you cherish and that makes you so proud.Serbia has alienated herself by refusing to comply with intenational communities expectations for long term stability in the Balkans.Carla's goal of attainig justice for Serbia's countless victims must not disturb any senseable person.

The SAA and its entire contents are the product of talks between the EU and Serbia as an equal partner, and without prejudicing Kosovo’s future status,” Rehn stressed.


- This equal we have seen already Mr Rehn. What is next? And please do not mislead Serbs any longer by claiming that Kosovo and Serbia's EU integrations are two different processes. It is an utter tale that you are promoting in Serbia.

“The agreement is not something the EU imposes on any country, but is rather a recognition of privileged relations with the Union that brings tangible benefits,” he added.

- Said Mr Rehn and still alive after this another tale. Why would I feel priviledged to be in the EU and treated as second class citizen? What is the priviledge? To use the development funds that will be revoked as soon as Serbia opposes to the EU at some point.
I guess he meant this kind of priviledge and equality! According to the EU, the priviledge and equality is when the EU says to you what can you sell out and to whom. We did not yet sign the SAA and the EU already begun meddling with Serbia's state owned assets dictating what and to whom to be sold out.

Well, I do not want that kind of priviledge and equality that you offer Mr Rehn on the behalf of the EU.

yes, and lest we forget that holland was also the epicenter of the african slave trade.

No surprise here. Just like in case of Croatia and gen. Gotovina.
You really have to appreciate the consistency of principles of EU.
The same rule applies for all. Or yet another “unique case”?

How ridiculous. The Serbian leaders are doing everything possible to work with Europe, as long as its territorial integrity is respected over Kosovo.

Now the transfer of one man to the Hague, on the word of Carla, is creating a stumbling block to the entire process.

If there was ever a way to alienate a nation, this is it.

with respect to your opinion but most of the population in Serbia proper want to be in EU. You see, even Nikolic says that Serbias future is EU not isolation as you propose.
Mate, I knwo that changes are difficult to cope with but you have to get used to.After all we are living in a dynamic world. Be part of it.

Great move by Holland, they know they made a huge misstake back in 1995, now they want to save face.

I guess, this settles it. Since they don't know where is Mladic, there is nothing to hope for when it comes to EU. There is no other way, like it or not, but to turn to Russians. Tadic just lost the elections.

Last year, German Ambassador Zobel provided strategic information to Serbia - EU will not accept Serbia as a member in the next 20 years.
Serbian Government disregarded this information, like Stalin did with Zorge's information.

There will always be some kind of request that Serbia can not meet.

Today, Holland requests Mladic. Tomorrow, UK may request Nessie.

bmrusila, Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA)agreement is signed by all countries that are inspired to be part of EU. The conditions are specifically to each country. For Serbia as it was for Croatia, full Hague cooperation is a condition of signing the Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU. The different conditions are for Macedonia or Albania. But there are conditions for every country to sign the agreement. Why should be different with Serbia. There is no “second citizen” issue here.

This statement supposes that Serbia is complicate in hiding war criminals and that is a dangerous supposition to make.

How ridiculous. The Serbian leaders are doing everything possible to work with Europe, as long as its territorial integrity is respected over Kosovo.

Now the transfer of one man to the Hague, on the word of Carla, is creating a stumbling block to the entire process.

If there was ever a way to alienate a nation, this is it.
(kate, 17 January 2008 16:36)

kate,
it has to do w/much more then (1) man. nevertheless, belgrade refuses to turn him over and that's the example they are setting for themselves. that same man is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. it's more to do w/the symbolism behind it and don't forget that many dutch who were UN soldiers patrolling in bosnia at that time could do nothing to prevent it. they are determined to bag YOUR man.
doesn't it bother some of you that that's what many serbs are viewed as around the globe? MASS MURDERERS of woman & children. i'll be the 1st to admit there are plenty of good serbian people, and i'm albanian, but the so-called moderates are lost in the mix and don't make enough of an effort to silence the radicals.

Way to go, Holland. Don't let Serbia dictate to the EU!

Why does this Dutch gentleman not go to Moscow and see if Mladic is having dinner with Litvinetko?Stop mixing politics with economics.The EU works great as an economic/free trde area so focus on that instead of pseudo political goals.

Kate,

Thanks for enlighting us regading the Serbia's "right" of territorial integrity regarding Kosova? Did you forget Serbia's "rights" of territorial integrity over Kroatia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Bosnia Hercegovina...)

Mike I agree with you regarding the possibility of recognition of Kosova independence and SAA agreement with Serbia. The only problem is that Serbia still has to hand over its war criminals.....)

Well, I do not want that kind of priviledge and equality that you offer Mr Rehn on the behalf of the EU.
(bmrusila, 17 January 2008 10:55)

-Sorry to ask but do you actually live in Serbia. Because if not then you have no right whatsoever to speak on behalf of Serbias citizens.

Why is Serbia responsible for the capture of a Bosnian (Serb) military commander and a Montenegrin politician of an entity outside of Serbia's direct control? Why is their membership in the EU contingent upon two men that are not citizens of Serbia?

Shouldn't Bosnia or Republika Srpska look for Mladic and Karadzic? (With Montenegro's help in the latter case)

How was this circus allowed to run for so long? Why isn't Albania held accountable for the crimes committed by the Kosovar Albanians?

Why do double standards always apply to Serbs? Croatia can be independent but Krajina can't? Kosovar Albanians can secede from Serbia but the Kosovo Serbs cannot break from 'kosova'.

I don´t think that the dutch threat is a threat at all...

remember:

"With so much at stake, the West must ask itself whether a free Kosovo is worth further humiliating a volatile, Russia-backed Belgrade in the heart of the Balkans. This is one small, poor Eastern state that the EU may eventually want more than it wants the EU."

that says it all. the Dutch can ask for whatever they want the whole day... Serbia has alternatives, the EU has not.

hurray and thank god for holland. no one (sane) can claim that holland is a "pawn of the west." true, the dutch forces performed abominably at srebrenica, no thanks to the less than honorable UN, and west in General. not to mention the actual perpetrators of the genocide, lest we forget! holland is one of the few countries in the world with integrity, however spotty its past. genocide (look it up, boys and girls, it ain't pretty!) is not negotiable, not for people w any sense of right or wrong.

thank god for holland!!

Teli,

Who do you think you are to tell me that I have no right to speak on the behalf of Serbian citizens since I am a Serb myself with the Serbian passport and right to vote where ever I live. I have right on my own opinion and if you have problem with that then I cannot help you. Besides if you are interested that much, yes I do live in Serbia. Satisified? And don't forget that every Serb in this planet is entitled of having a Serbian citizenship where ever they live and that means right to vote in Serbian embassies all over the world.

I am a Serb myself with the Serbian passport and right to vote where ever I live. Besides if you are interested that much, yes I do live in Serbia. Satisified?
(bmrusila, 18 January 2008 09:22)

Bmrusila, can you please be honest with us, even for once, and tell us, on your "Serbian Passport" does it say you are Serbian national or otherwise? Please just check your passport and read under Nationality, what does it say?
As far as I know, and that is a fact, there is no Serbian Passport, they don't exist. But if you and Princip have one, then you must be the only two people in this planet to have these Serbian Passports.

I don't understand why is so hard for someone to tell the truth?

RE: Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic

The representative of Holland should be speaking with high level sources at the United States (Holbrook, Albright,Clinton, et al) who signed a secret pact to protect both Karadzic and Mladic so that the Dayton Accord would be passed.

They may have a chance if Hilary Clinton is elected and the gong show of the democtratic party behind her will be placed in key positions.

Further, Holland should launch and inquiry into the conduct of Dutch forces in Srebrinica. The Dutch forces and commanders testimony from new sources do not match what the Bosnian Muslim Government in relation to the "mass gravesites" in Srebrinica.

yeah, right, 2 weeks after kostunica killed saa!

this is nearly as embrassing, as a 9 year dreamtalk about "indiependence"!

You know, I may not agree with this, but if Russia or Cyprus can block Kosovo's independence, Holland can block Serbia's EU ascension.

It's not an issue of what should or should not happen; it's an issue of what one state can still do in an international body where unanimous consensus is needed. However, I also strongly feel that if barriers could be bypassed for one, it should be bypassed for others:

In other words, if let's say Kosovo is given independence despite the legal obstacles, Serbia should automatically be signed into the SAA. International law can by blisteringly annoying at times, but it certainly keeps things in order.

Mike: "In other words, if let's say Kosovo is given independence despite the legal obstacles, Serbia should automatically be signed into the SAA."

I do get your point (and suspect tht's the message they are also trying the send).

But how can you possibly compare 15% of your national territory with becoming members of the jolly EU?!

We are talking about genocide here, and the fact that the chief alleged architect of the genocide at Srebrenica lived freely in Serbia for many years when Vojislav Kostunica was prime minister. In blatant defiance of international law obligating all states to send indictees to the Hague. Vote for Nikolic, or write in Putin for that matter won't change the facts regarding who was responsible for Europe's first genocide since world war II. There are actions, there are consequences

Now the transfer of one man to the Hague, on the word of Carla, is creating a stumbling block to the entire process.

If there was ever a way to alienate a nation, this is it.
(kate, 17 January 2008 16:36)

Kate, the spokewoman of international law, today you ignored the very fundamental point of law, international law for that matter.
The law says that everyone who committed a crime must be brought to justice.

Today from your comment, we can see that you:
A) either do not accept the fact the this one man has committed a crime-genocide, hence EU should not demand for his arrest
or
B) you don't mind that all those people that were killed by this one man and because they were not Serbs, hence your surprise, why they demand his arrest on the word of Carla ?

It is the same as if you've said about Hitler, why bother accusing him about genocide, he was one man, and if there was ever a way to alienate a nation(Germans), this is it.

I always knew that it would be just matter of time before you expose the real Kate, and you did today. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

Stuart: "We are talking about genocide here, and the fact that the chief alleged architect of the genocide at Srebrenica lived freely in Serbia for many years when Vojislav Kostunica was prime minister."

Only a few months ago Carla Del Ponte reported that the ICTY was satisfied with Serbia's cooperation. She seems to have since back-tracked probably related to the frustration of her departure.

There were horrific crimes carried out by all groups in Bosnia, not just Serbians. And what about the role of the Dutch UN troops in Srebrenica who disarmed the locals and then just watched the terrible events unfold?

Do you think that the Bosnian Muslims or Croatians would not have done the same? I agree that all of these terrible crimes should be tried wherever possible, but you can't hold up the access of Serbia into the EU (if they even want it) because of the trial of Mladic re. Bosnia.

The two should be treated as separate issues entirely.

In the meantime it would be good to see some balanced reporting of crimes in the Balkans. In the UK there is barely any mention of any Serbians that died in Bosnia or Kosovo (or in Serbia during the bombing).

What about justice for those people? They deserve respect, sympathy and justice just as much as any other group.

Flamur UK - you can attempt to twist my words as you like, but I never said Mladic shouldn't be tried, or that he was innocent or guilty.

I said that it shouldn't be connected to Serbia joining the EU.

Really, I was pretty clear in my original comment, but if you need things explaining then so be it.

Kate, by reading your comments you obviously either don't have a clue that Serbia must be held accountable for it war time criminal's actions it supported, financed and sheltered or you're just being Serbian-like in that denile, minimization of responsibility, outright lies and wishfull thinking are traits you cherish and that makes you so proud.Serbia has alienated herself by refusing to comply with intenational communities expectations for long term stability in the Balkans.Carla's goal of attainig justice for Serbia's countless victims must not disturb any senseable person.