"Kosovo independence would lead to chaos"

Yo Beni my man,
what happened now? indifference and degrading comments about Russia have now turned to fear?

When USA/NATO occupy,bomb,kill they are just the No1 superpower,
when Russia tries to protect world order, they are the bad guys?

Funcakes,

No heat for Kosovo, limited water, limited air travel, no trade route through Serbia, no more passports, and no Northern Kosovo.

Crime will increase by 200%, poverty will get worse and no prospects of any future for Kosovo's Albanian population or their children.

The South of Kosovo will be another Turkish Cyprus!

We know that Mr Rogozin, I just wanted to add Republika Srpska in that count.

Canadian, you are right on spot here.
But maybe that is what the Kosovo albanian leadership wants?

If they can keep the population poor and hungry they will not interfere with the politicians dirty businesses. The former KLA leadership have transformed to "true democrats" but will continue to enrich themselves, they don't care what is good for the people or children.
The politicians are never going to run out of electricity or water in their palaces, they can afford generators and dwells.

It reminds me of the situaion in Gaza strip, Hamas leadership WANT the palestinians to have a bad life, so they can point to Israel and blame them for all their shortcommings.

I would like to add my sentiments to what bmrusila has said. Republika Srpska WILL gain independence if unilateral recognition of 'greater albania' happens. There is no stopping this. No more double standards and anti-Serb policies. If the EU and Americans want to be friends with Serbs, they should start treating them like human beings and equals, not like insignifcant servants that can be betrayed.
Recognizing the fact that the Serb minority in Kosovo have virtually no human rights, no freedom of movement, and are treated like caged animals in the enclaves, would be a good start. Rewarding such behaviour only shows what they are all about.

Bad Gorila, interesting thing you wrote here:

"The majority of Kosovar population wants an independent nation of Kosovo, not a Greater Albania."

With all this talks about highways here and there connecting albania and kosovo, a albanian population of 9 millions and so on, could the albanian side here tell us what you REALLY want? (exept of course not being governed by Belgrade which we already now very well...)

Beni,
1st i am not slav,
2nd Illirians are written in history just because some Greeks chose to write about this extinct insignificant race.

Pyrros (pyr=fire) is a greek name just like Alexandros, Vagelis, Mihalis, Pantelis
(you know what i mean - and the rest of names you can find in N. Ipiros (now S. Albania)

Funcakes said >> "Businesses are already planning their way into the new money paradise that Kosovo is about to become."

What Kosovo business' are you talking about Funcakes? Drug trade, human trafficking, gun running, extortion? There are no real business' in Kosovo and I know because I was in Kosovo and Pristina this past September, the only booming business there are Café's and gas stations, that's it!

If you live in Kosovo, then your mind is in LA-LA land if this is what you think, however if you don't live in Kosovo than you are babbling about things you do not know anything about.

Serbia's geographic location in the Balkans is vital for Kosovo's trade and for other countries in the region, why do you think the EU is so desperate to have Serbia in the Union? Or do you think the EU is simply playing a child's game with Serbia in teasing it about the EU?

"Russia’s ambassador to NATO Dmitri Rogozin says that Kosovo independence would lead to chaos throughout the world."

==> Damn right it will.

Funcakes

It is not supposed to scare the Americans and the Albanians, but there are regions around the world that could erupt into violence if Kosovo gets independence. Say what you want about Russia, they have a point here. Not that America is listening, but they do have a point.

beni

Indeed, Russia have been very imperialistic and brutal in the past (as a Pole I know), but to paint Russia as this complete bad guy of the world is also not right. Russia is a good strategic trade partner and I hope that one if Kosovo does get its independence, that Serbia and Kosovo can benefit mutually from Russian and American economic trade, not just one side and not the other.

Beni, During the winter war Russia only asked Finns to kind of lend the teritory for temporary (Karelia region)in order to establish the control in defence against treaths of Germany. However Finns reject that proposal and Russians did not accept the rejection which led to winter war. Of course Finns lost it and thus lost the teritory forever. If the Finns did accept the dil they would have this teritory nowadays. Instead, Finns decided to support and join Nazis (read Germans) during the WWII. Besides, Finns were occupied by Swedes for 700 years and afterwards by Russians who granted them firstly total autonomy during Czar time) and afterwards Russians were the one who granted them independence during Lenin time. I think they made mistake. That much about bad guy Russia and good guy Finland.

True that! Their is no middle groud here. This Kosovo indep thing will cause one big mess or nothing at all. We'll have to wait and see. I think it will open Pandora's box and cause more problems than the world needs right now. It won't happen over night but it will happen. Starting possably with RS or Spain. But if the pro-indep countries what to divid the world along ethnic lines so be it. This will be on their hands not those countries against it. Good luck with the mess you created.

Everybody knows now who pushing Serbia against whole world. It is Russia, and that just because of thir interests. Russi can not live if people living in harmony tolerance and free. They will do enything to breake this. We know very well russia. They have Finns territory which was occupied by them, then German terirory,Poland territory, Rumanian, Ukrainian, Turkey, Afganistan, China territory, Korean, Japan etc. This shows who in the fact are Russians and what kind of international law they protecting. Even now they are pushing islamic world against west countries giving them nuke. I wonder till when this islamic countries will be blind and continue to serve Russian interests.

I really like this gay Dmitri Rogozin, he makes me feel that after all I am not that small, since decision of my country Kosova to became indenpendent will cause so much trouble all over the world, including Russia itself?
Well, I would certeinly do anything what's in my power to see Russia weaker and smaller, they just don't deserve all that territory they hold.

Bad Gorilla, nice attempt to avoid my question by refering to west's media :-)

But do you and the other albanians here want a greater Albania or not? I am not saying being ruled by Tirana, which is not the same thing but what I am asking is that if you would like all Albanians to live in one state? (being governed by diffrent capitals such as Pristina or Tirana but still in the same state?) Would you like unification with the Albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija or do you se albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija as Montenegrin and Makedonijan citizens ?

bmrusila

Imperial Russia/Soviet Union does not deserve any justification for what they did, they murdered millions of Finns, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans, Romanians and especially Ukrainians during and after the war, be it during fighting, in gulags or during death marches.

They were no better than Nazi Germany, the same murderers.

However, today's Russia and today's Germany should not be compared to the past, same as the Serbs of today, the Albanians have no right to judge today's Serbia because of the actions of Milosevic's Yugoslavia. To conclude, the past should not dictate the future, it has caused enough wars and hatred in Europe.

Independent Kosovo = independent Abkhazia. Of course!

And then finally the US can recognize Taiwan :)

Mika, Kosovo doesn't deserve indep. Funcakes, that UN thing was funny. Ben or beni albanians are not direct decendents of Ilyrians they are extinct. Jonny, K-Albanians couldn't handle full indep. To the rest of you please stop taking other peoples history and converting it to Albanian history. Make your own please.

this really scares the Albanians and the Americans.

What Dimitri “friend of Mladic” Rogozin is doing (saying “Oh, if the cradle of Serbdom is detached from the Serbland, Armagedon and World War III shall come!”) is mere scare-tactic propaganda, as a way to try to delay the Kosovar independence.

First of all, nationalist Serbs can say what they want, but Kosovo is essentially different form the Abkhazia-South-Ossetia-Transnistria cases.

For Kosovo to be similar to these three above mentioned cases, it would need to be occupied by troops from the Republic of Albania, with Kosovar people using Albanian money, and with Albania demanding Kosovo to be integrated in its territory, and this is not the case. The majority of Kosovar population wants an independent nation of Kosovo, not a Greater Albania.

Looking at the Abkhazia-South-Ossetia-Transnistria cases, we can spot the differences: these three mini-me Soviet Unions uses the ruble, have the Cyrillic alphabet and the Russian language imposed as official language, are dominated by former-KGB-now-FSB viceroys, and are occupied by Russian troops.

And in fact what the Bagapsh-Kokoiti-Smirnov trio really wants is not independent nationhood to its fiefs, but incorporation of them into Russian Federation, with the covert support from Putin’s government.

That’s it.

Peter,

I did not try to justify the crimes commited by Soviet Union, far from that but just to explain what was the Russian intention when occupied Karelia region in Finland. I am sure that if they managed to make deal between each other, Finns would have their Karelia still nowadays. At least that is what I think. Unfortanately they end up in the war between themselves. I just wanted to say that some countries have that right to say NO even to lending the teritory while some countries have no right to defend its teritory from seceding. And as you pointed out the past should not be taken into acount but for Serbs that rule seems does not apply and we must be punished by taking our land from us, by taking cradle of our Serbian civilization. Just try to imagine how would you feel if Germans tried to take 15% of the teritory that belogs to you Poles.

The Brits being the standard bearer for Kosovo independence should put their money where their mouth is.

Leave Northern Ireland and support the unification of the Irish people. 800 years of British colonial rule. They will go to the Balkans to push such nonsense but will not support realistic solutions right at home.

to Pyrros,
Yo Beni my man,
what happened now? indifference and degrading comments about Russia have now turned to fear?

"Pyrros" what this mean is this great Ilyrian king of Epir? Pyrros we are not affraid from anybody. We were not affraid when we were fighting to protect our land from Roman empire, then you slavs when you occupied our land, then bizant, then otoman empire until you accepted to be under them, then again Orthodox coalition against albanians which did everything to destroy our culture spirit,fusical licuidation, deportation of hundred thousand of albanians and so on and so on. Now we dont have to fear because whole world has knowledge who are albanians what they gave to global culture and history. Now my dear pyrros whole world supporting us because they covered up your lies about albanians.

To beni and the other friend:

Epeiros (Apeiros in Dorian) means infinite land/continent
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=el|en&text=%CE%91%CF%80%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=el|en&text=%CE%97%CF%80%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CF%89%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C%CF%82
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon?query_e=%C7%D0%C5%C9%D1%CF%D3 (and then click on find)

Theos means God, Zeus,Dias was two of the many nicknames for the father of the 12 gods.
Theio means divine, and has the same root as the Latin Dio.
(of course you are not indoeuropean so you hardly knew that)

Alexandros = Alex-Andras (peotector of man) like alexikeraunos = protector against thunder, alexisfairo=protecting against bullets, etc...

A fine tool also is http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

Now about our language, it is very similar to the ancient one.

But this site is about Serbia, please stop deviating anything in sight.

Beni, look at
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/PyrrhusTetradrachm.jpg
and then ask any North Epirot
(Ag. Saranta, Argyrokastro, Korytsa, Avlona) to translate it to you.
This is a greek coin of the Greek King of Greek Hpeiros.

Now lets talk about Serbia, shall we?

Yeah Funcakes!!
All the world is holding its breath until this energy giant called albania/kimeria/kosova/ emerges!!!

Whole world discovered your lies about albanians

TO: (johny, 16 January 2008, 04:35)

Thanks for your sincere reply, I appreciate it.

I agree very much with you regarding the barriers for common people. But I am unfortuntely not so convinced anymore that EU is the soulution for Serbia or the other balkan states, just look at the way EU are treating Croatia regarding the fishing zone in the adriatic sea. Imagine if it was a poorer country like Albania or Montenegro, what could they do to resist? Nothing, just letting the italian fishing fleat completely empty their waters before moving on to other countries

I might be naive but I belive that old Yugoslavia wasn't so bad after all, if only it had been a lot more decentralized, just like EU today and no "who will rule who" discussion like the one in the late 80:s

I have no problem with Kosovo having a governement and being ruled from Pristina, I understand that a province of 2 million albanians cant be ruled completely from Belgrade, but that doesn't mean that I think you should have the right to be independent, in my opinon you should be "self ruling" but not independency,someting siliar to the Kurds in nothern Iraq. And to compare Serbia today to the one in the 90:s is not fair, you know that even the radicals wouldnt start a new war, its just election tactics, just like the KLA leaders are threatening now

Dear Johnny,

I hate to break the news to you, but the beginning of the end for YU came with the Pristina riots in 1981. Thats a historical fact.

Barely a year after the Great Man, Comrade Josip Broz Tito was laid to rest, you lot were the first to rock the boat, not the Serbs. Please stop blaming the Serbs for everything that went wrong in YU. You may have helped destroy YU but you will will be resisted in your attempts to destroy Serbia by legal means. Please stop trying to twist the facts and history to suit your own agenda.

Pyrro: stop spreading lies!

Pyrro Epiri is the land of EPEVE=IPEVE=ShQIPEVE it's the Eagles land...it is Albania

That's why we dance the Eagles dance (as Pyrro’s people did) and you DON’T.

That's why we dress the Epirs - Pyrros skirts and you Greeks DID NOT till the 19th c.

That's why we sing the polyphonic songs for millenniums and you DON'T

That's why we believe in ZOT as we did in ZEUS and you mysteriously changes ZEUS with THEOS

As far a Alexander the Great is concerned please reed this book (you will enjoy it from the very beginning): W. W. Tarn, Alexander the Great, Beacon Press, Boston, 1966 (Sir William Woodthorpe Tarn is member of the British Academy of Science- to save you some silly comments)

And in the end my friend let us know why you today’s Greeks don't understand a word from the ancient Greek nothing in common neither the grammar or syntax?

Mika, you wrote that you would do anything in your power to see Russia weaker and smaller. I belive you. I'm sure you would like nothing better.

There is only one problem. You can't do anything to achieve that. Russia will not let you or your backers.

Your wishes do not count for anything with Russia and it's allies.

Johny, you wrote " would like a sincere answer from you and any Serb here about a hypothetical scenario. Imagine if say Slovenia in the now old Jugoslavia marched with its troops in Serbia, killed thousands of people and ethnically cleansed around 4 million Serbs. Would you or any Serb here after having lived for almost a decade free from Sloven sovereignty willingly accept Slovenia to have sovereignty over you again, however symbolic it might be? I would expect anyone with at least a little bit of sincerity left in him/her to answer no.
(johny, 16 January 2008, 22:56"

I will try to answer this, if the criterias that you wrote were true I would say NO

BUT and read this also, the situation you mentioned is not the same as Belgrade-Pristina conflict.

Yes Slobo did horrible crimes against the albanians in Kosovo, but so did the UCK agains the serbs. One could argue forever who started this, did the KLA start to kill innocent mailmen and police or was it the police that killed innocent albanians first? Probably both statements are true considering the traditional brutality of the police forces in all Balkan countries.
But it doesn't really matter anymore, now both sides has to think what will we do next? What will be best for our children?

Is it better to have an own state and be poor and hungry or living in a federation and have it better? Of course this is my opinion, I know that you don't agree, but hypoteticly, which would be best if it was say another state such as Greece and not serbia?

As you wrote about not allowing anyone to have sovereignity over you again even if its symbolic, do you really think that NATO and EU will not rule over you even if you will become independent? At least in a union with Serbia you would be ruled from Pristina, with dual citizenship both albanian and serbian, now you have umnik ones, it that what you really want?

Yss it is gonna be the end of the world!!!

Just don't undertsand why teh west and K-albanians don't buy this story :)

Canadian,

Northern Cyprus...who doesn't have the recognition of the West, cannot be compared under no circumstances with Kosovo who is about to be recognized by the most important countries in the world.

And the Serbian blockade would be the most ridiculous blockade in the world. You can so easily work around it, I'm surprised anyone is even taking the risk of mentioning it as something serious without sounding too desperate or comedic. You make it sound as if Kosovo is bordered on every corner by Serbia. Unluckily for you, it's not.

And with the kind of support they have from the West, they won't feel the pinch one bit. Businesses are already planning their way into the new money paradise that Kosovo is about to become.

With all this talks about highways here and there connecting albania and kosovo, a albanian population of 9 millions and so on, could the albanian side here tell us what you REALLY want? (exept of course not being governed by Belgrade which we already now very well...)
(Srboslav, 15 January 2008 15:09)

I will explain it to you. The highway is being built in a rush actually. Just like last week Fyrom decided to close its border with Albania, blocking $400M/year of goods to Kosovo, Fyrom, Bulgaria, Turkey, in the same way we are afraid that the sercret plan of Belgrade will include trade embargos with Serbia. Now, only about 3-5% of Kosovo's trade is with Albania, making Kosovo dependent on Serbia. I am against economic barriers, and I think that at least one good thing that Albanians and Serbs have trade, let's not destroy that as well. We are being realistic by building the highway because we know that SErbs are not benevolent toward Albanians and no one wants to starve. The highway would serve many purposes such as:
-providing an alternative route to trade, essential food in case of some dirty trick from Belgrade
-opening new trade/cultural channels to Kosovo with the west. The highway will not link Tirana to Pristina, but Pristina to Durres, the port on the Adriatic.
-The highwau will lead through the mountain area that is very very isolated from the rest of Albania and the poorest region of the country. In this way, the highway will also revitalize the area. Every winter the high mountainous terrain is blocked by snow and people don't go to town to get food till the spring, which is backward, ridiculous, medieval for the 21st century.
-transport between Kosovo and Albania that takes hours and hours along hairpin roads that make you car sick will be straightened and shortened. These roads in the Birthern Alps, haven't been maintained since Hoxha's time and are almost unpaved after 25 years. Everyone who has traveled from Albania to Kosovo knows what a nigthmare the road is, not only on your stomach but also on the nerves because at ech turn it feels like the bus/car will plumet down the cliff into the abyss. Unfortunately many accidents happen and are reported on tv. We deserve better/efficient transport infrastructure and cheaper options than flying.

It is called development. No one did it with intentions to HURT anyone, let alone the Serbs. It will only bring benefits to the region.
Culturally we Albanians are united, in a way, the most we have been before. Do you guys really know why before 99 Albanians from albania and those from Kosovo weren't close? Because the Albanians in Albania were put off by Kosovars speaking to them arrogantly in half-Serbia half-Albanian talk. They were considered Serbs, so bye-bye. During 99, many K Albanians came to Albania and we sort of met each other in masses and recognized we are the same blood, same language, same face, same bad habits, same virtues. After 99, no one talks about Serbs anymore, everyone speaks Albanian, some young people have adopted the Tirana talk because of tv or vacations in Albania. Albanians in Albania did nothing at all to influence K-Albanians, not a signle move. In Tirana people call themselves "menefregists", the term comes from Italian, "non me ne frego"-"I don't care".

To Pyrros
That name doesn’t belong to you. You can keep the “s”but not the rest.
Yes, Illyrians are known today partly because they were mentioned by the old Helen historians.
But …..S my man, they didn’t exist because of that.
Vangel, Mihail, Pandeli are orthodox names. Apart from Greek, they can be Albanian Bulgarian Serbian ECT.
As for Alexander neither he nor his name was Helen. He was Macedonian, not Helen, not Slav. Just Macedonian.

"However, today's Russia and today's Germany should not be compared to the past, same as the Serbs of today, the Albanians have no right to judge today's Serbia because of the actions of Milosevic's Yugoslavia. To conclude, the past should not dictate the future, it has caused enough wars and hatred in Europe."

Peter, I agree the past should not dictate the future, but Soviet Union and nazi Germany happened more than 50 years ago, whereas the things we are talking about here happened in the last 15 years. No country in the world can have closure with its past in 15 years. Even the Germans did it in more than 15 years and unfortunately this is the Balkans, not Germany. Give it time and please don't ask for perfection. You cannot cut artificially past and future, especially here in this region where history has become the bitch of all sides..Personally, the only history I know with some degree of certainty and care about is what happened in the last 15-30 years. And it is important..and it can't not influence the near future..it's unrealistic to ask that.

bmrusila

"Just try to imagine how would you feel if Germans tried to take 15% of the teritory that belogs to you Poles."

This is why I sympathize with the Serbs. If I were to try and imagine that the Germans wanted to take Wielkopolska (with the ancient towns of Kalisz, Gniezno and Poznan), I would not find it acceptable. On the other hand I would also know that in this day and age, it would be up to the international community and not Poland to decide. Such is the world these days.

"Give it time and please don't ask for perfection."

Of course I don't, it's perfectly understandable, Polish-German relations, for instance, were still tense for years until Willy Brandt began his Ostpolitik. I just hope that it will happen and that Serbs and Albanians live in peace with each other. This is why in the back of my mind I still hope for compromise, though I know it isn't realistic, looking at how the sides differ in stance.

"Funcakes,

No heat for Kosovo, limited water, limited air travel, no trade route through Serbia, no more passports, and no Northern Kosovo.

Crime will increase by 200%, poverty will get worse and no prospects of any future for Kosovo's Albanian population or their children.

The South of Kosovo will be another Turkish Cyprus!
(Canadian, 15 January 2008 13:57) "

Canadian that still much much better than being murdered and slaughtered under Serbia. It is still much better than being poor under Serbia, which all of us can testify we were. It still beats having to deal with state sponsored crime coming from Serbia, which all of us can testify. I am trying to make you understand our point. The point is that however bad we might have it by being independent, it is always gonna be better than being under Serbia. Can't put it in simpler terms. If you don't get it now then there's no point to talk about anymore.

Srboslav, I’ve read trough the years many opinion polls in Kosovo that show that the majority of the population of Kosovo don’t see themselves as inhabitants of Albania or Serbia, but as Kosovars which may speak Albanian, but are Kosovars from Kosovo, not Albanians from Albania.

The last source I’ve seen this information was The Economist. I don’t think they would deceive anyone on this matter.

"Bad Gorilla, nice attempt to avoid my question by refering to west's media :-)

But do you and the other albanians here want a greater Albania or not? I am not saying being ruled by Tirana, which is not the same thing but what I am asking is that if you would like all Albanians to live in one state? (being governed by diffrent capitals such as Pristina or Tirana but still in the same state?) Would you like unification with the Albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija or do you se albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija as Montenegrin and Makedonijan citizens ?
(Srboslav, 15 January 2008 20:12) "

Srboslav your question is a good question. I consider myself to be the average Albanian. As such I think I am able to distinguish between dreams and reality, between what I want and what is possible. So here's what I think is the reality. Kosova/o is going to be independent. Did I think it was going to be independent before 1999. No way, not even close. After 1999 things changed. Since that happened Serbia cannot be trusted anymore to have sovereignty over Albanians anymore. If 1999 did not happen there is no way Kosova/o would be independent and for US to have support from the West. To that we add the fact that Kosova/o has been separate and completely independent from Serbia for 9 years now. There is now way 2 million Albanians accepting willingly a political status which is lower to what they've had for 9 years. I believe that is the reality in Kosova/o.
As for Macedonia and Montenegro, there is now way the Albanian inhabited areas will secede from them. Unless of course they decide to repeat what Serbia did in 1999. I think that's not gonna happen. I believe that is the reality in Macedonia and Montenegro.
Now wanting and dreaming about something is very different from reality. The reality is that us as Albanians will be able to move most of the barriers that are in our way only when Albania, Kosova/o, Macedonia, and Montengro, Serbia ( have in mind Presheva Valley Albanians) become EU members. Anything else is just a pipe dream.
I believe that you as an average Serb also agree that the only way all the Serbs can remove the majority of the barriers that stand in their way is when Serbia and all places where there are Serbs join the EU and everything else is a pipe dream.

""... the Albanians have no right to judge today's Serbia because of the actions of Milosevic's Yugoslavia. To conclude, the past should not dictate the future, it has caused enough wars and hatred in Europe."

Sure, this makes sense. It's just that sometimes you can't go back. Reminds me of my past fiance. Now, I wish her all the best but there is no way in heck you are going to get me to live under the same roof. I don't care what law jumps what way. Somethings need to stay separate.

Canadian,

The name of the game in Kosovo is RESOURCES!

That's the kind of business that is about to happen. Actually Italian and British companies are already buying mines and getting things started.

Both Albania and Kosovo are about to experience an energy boom, and energy nowadays means BIG MONEY!

So don't use your "Northern Cyprus like Kosovo" analogy in any standardized tests, you won't get any points for it.

Anthony,

What is your problem? Northern-Irland, mostly protestant is just fine within the UK....doesn't want any uification with the Republic. Is it so hard to understand it?

B92, thank you for the chance of debate.
To Pyrro:
After all I’ll let you use that name. (But don’t abuse it) What the heck, we’ve got so many great ideas from your distant ancestors. We even got so many names, like “Europe” for example. I would like to learn something from you now.
You are right, so let’s talk about the subject in hand.
As for the Serbs:
I don’t know why but somehow I feel attached to them. Both Serbians and Albanians are genuinely very hospitable brave and proud. But they can be ruthless as well. Like Millosevic .Can’t totally blame him thou. I think that the ghost of that Zervas of yours whispered in his ear and drove him mad. And mainly because of him Kosovo will have to be independent. But he died in shame. Not Zervas thou.
The feeling I have for the Serbs could be I think because we are blood related. After all the Serbians, Slovenes Montenegrins Bosnians emerged from the assimilation of the Illyrian tribes by the Slav tribes arriving in the Balkans in the 7 century.
That’s why I think we’ve got this love and hate relationship.
That’s why no matter what happens to Kosovo, we should not burn all bridges. Because soon both nations Serbians and Albanians will be under one state; Europe.
problem being small. I wish I could but I don’t feel the same way about the Greeks Pyrro.I could be affected by my neighbour in Albania .He died in vain because he couldn’t visit his mother’s grave in Preveza.
And Pirro my man the “Megali Idea” is not Albanian.
To us Albanians as the English say: The best things come in small package.

"I might be naive but I belive that old Yugoslavia wasn't so bad after all, if only it had been a lot more decentralized, just like EU today and no "who will rule who" discussion like the one in the late 80:s

I have no problem with Kosovo having a governement and being ruled from Pristina, I understand that a province of 2 million albanians cant be ruled completely from Belgrade, but that doesn't mean that I think you should have the right to be independent, in my opinon you should be "self ruling" but not independency,someting siliar to the Kurds in nothern Iraq. And to compare Serbia today to the one in the 90:s is not fair, you know that even the radicals wouldnt start a new war, its just election tactics, just like the KLA leaders are threatening now
(Srboslav, 16 January 2008 21:30) "

Its perfectly fine for me when I hear someone complain about the power of EU. That is a thing that the citizens of each country have to figure out.
As for Serbia being different now from the 90's, I don't buy that for a second. Just yesterday I was watching a documentary on how the crisis in Jugoslavia started. All originating from Serbia and Belgrade itself. It started with staged protests from the Serbs. And then the same people where brought to Vojvodina by train and then Belgrade. They were given the day off each time and it was a paid day. I as a Albanian when I hear Nikolic, Kostunica, Samardjic, the Serb Socialists etc. am not convinced at all that this Serbia is different from Serbia i the 90's. Remember the war started with Serbia changing the Constitution of Kosova/o. Now we have a Serbia that does not allow Kosova/o Albanians to vote for the constitution. Frankly both Serbia's are the same to me.
I would like a sincere answer from you and any Serb here about a hypothetical scenario. Imagine if say Slovenia in the now old Jugoslavia marched with its troops in Serbia, killed thousands of people and ethnically cleansed around 4 million Serbs. Would you or any Serb here after having lived for almost a decade free from Sloven sovereignty willingly accept Slovenia to have sovereignty over you again, however symbolic it might be? I would expect anyone with at least a little bit of sincerity left in him/her to answer no.

Pyrro:

I stated an important part of our today’s culture that SURVIVED, that is directly descendent from the ancient Epirs one. And this culture DID NOT survived, you can’t find a trace in YOURS. This is tangible proof, which you didn't comment.

ZEUS=ZOT in Albanian and ZEUS=THEOS in Greek- you can’t do nothing about that except changing you nationality or the name of God in your language.

And pls. stop manipulating the today’s Greek language with the ancient. They have nothing in common, neither a grammar nor syntax. They are not like (i.e. Italian and Latin)

The ancient Greeks referred to Epir always as non Greek territory, excluding some colonies.

Anyhow reed the book I suggested to you my friend, and stop fishing around. I don’t take as good references the Greek sources, they are too biased. I don’t refer neither to Albanian one, I suggested you a book from a reliable and proved scientist who don’t really agree with you about Alexader.

In the end I really like your stance, listening to you and your Serbian friends Albanian is only Durres, Shkoder (if Montenrgrians don't mind:)) and Tirana, since the south is Greek and Kosova is Serbian : )

Hell, how did we get so many coming only from 3 cities? They must have been metropolis, strange how your illuminated philosopher’s didn’t write about them?!

Dear Niall O'Doherty, I would be very happy to know that we destroyed YUGO, it would be something decent that we've done in our modern history. But we didn’t had that power, actually we couldn't even defend our houses. YUGO was destroyed by yogurt revolutions made by Serbia my friend- well done I would say, otherwise how could we had our kosova independent?

"Is it better to have an own state and be poor and hungry or living in a federation and have it better? Of course this is my opinion, I know that you don't agree, but hypoteticly, which would be best if it was say another state such as Greece and not serbia?

As you wrote about not allowing anyone to have sovereignity over you again even if its symbolic, do you really think that NATO and EU will not rule over you even if you will become independent? At least in a union with Serbia you would be ruled from Pristina, with dual citizenship both albanian and serbian, now you have umnik ones, it that what you really want?
(Srboslav, 17 January 2008 08:50) "

There is this sense of relativity of crimes that were committed, I see coming from the Serbs. While it may be true that crimes were committed by both sides I think it is just ridiculous and offensive to equate the scale of the systematic crimes committed by the Serbian state and government with the crimes committed by individual people in the KLA. I can say that the majority of us Albanians posting here have witnessed these crimes from the Serbian government.

After all these crimes have been committed and ethnic cleansing occurred, in my honest opinion I could care less whether it was Serbia, Italy, Switzerland, UK, USA etc. the state that committed them. I would never accept to live under the sovereignty of that state ever again. I would rather be dirt poor and suffer from poverty then be under a state which I know in the past tried its best to cleanse me out of my home, even by eliminating me physically. There is no guarantee that this state is not going to repeat the same in the future and that I, my children and my parents will not be eliminated or ethnically cleansed. Serbia disregarded all the republics within Jugoslavia, international law, and international troops when it started the wars. There is no guarantee whatsoever that at some point in the future while under Serbian sovereignty Serbia will not try to repeat what it failed to achieve, the ethnic cleansing of Albanians, especially with the likes of Kostunica, Nikolic, Samardjic, Maldic and Karadjic runing free etc etc.

Answering the question about NATO and EU. I think you misunderstood me. I said I would never accept to be under the soveregnity of Serbia. NATO and EU are a different matter. Of course Kosova/o will not have full powers with EU and NATO in Kosova/o but they came and rescued us at the time we most needed them. So if they ask us to make sacrifices for them we are willing to make them.
Secondly, even as an autonomous province of Serbia Kosova/o would not have full powers. On the contrary I believe that with independence recognized by most EU and NATO state Kosova/o will have more say and more powers than under Serbia. We are going to be in direct contact with these organizations we aspire to join, when we are independent. If we were autonomous under Serbia then we risk not joining them at all if Serbia decided not to join them. Again that is the will of Serbia being imposed on us, while we Albanians of Kosova/o want to join both NATO and EU. And lastly I think it is better for us to be "autonomous" (supervised independence) under the EU and with the protection of NATO then under Serbia. I also definitely think that we are going to be better off financial if we have supervised independence than being autonomous under Serbia.
I know my answer is long but I hope you get my point.

" Dear Johnny,

I hate to break the news to you, but the beginning of the end for YU came with the Pristina riots in 1981. Thats a historical fact.

Barely a year after the Great Man, Comrade Josip Broz Tito was laid to rest, you lot were the first to rock the boat, not the Serbs. Please stop blaming the Serbs for everything that went wrong in YU. You may have helped destroy YU but you will will be resisted in your attempts to destroy Serbia by legal means. Please stop trying to twist the facts and history to suit your own agenda.
(Niall O'Doherty, Ireland, 17 January 2008 11:26)"

Niall I would advise you to check those facts again. When I heard from the mouth of those closest to Milosevic how they organized the fake riots there was no doubt in my mind, Milosevic used Kosova/o to gain ultimate power in Jugoslavia. The whole war on Jugoslavia was based on a lie fabricated by Milosevic ad his cronies in Kosova/o. I am talkig about the very first one. The one where Milosevic comes out and says you will not be beaten again. When Milosevic's men come out and say how fake the whole thing was I do not need someone from Ireland to tell me what the history facts are. If the organizers of the fake riot say it was fake, then I would believe them and not you. Then the same rioters were given a day off, payed, and shipped by train to Vojvodina where they started other fake riots, then they were shipped to Belgrade.
When Milosevic comes out and says to the other republic heads that he doesn't care about the Jugoslav constitution, we are gonna do as we please in Kosova/o if you do not back us up. Then I would believe that rather than your rhetoric about history. When the Slovenian head leaves the same meeting alarmed that Serbia and Milosevic is disintegrating Jugoslavia and immediately flies home, I would believe that rather than you. When the next morning Prishtina wakes up by the sounds of Serbian tanks, I would believe that rather than you. When that same day the Albanian head of the party in Kosova talks in a protest against the militarization of Kosova/o and for a dialog with Albanians and Serbs to leave in peace I believe that rather than you. When Milosevic calls him immediately after that, threatens him and after that arrest him, I believe that rather then you. When after that he is sour then Tudjman won and sends Migs to shoot Croatian helicopters flying over Serbian inhabited areas, I believe that rather than your facts. You and other Serbs here ca blame us all they want about the fall if Jugoslavia. If by now neither you nor the Serbs here have not realized that the Serbia government with Milosevic and his hunger for ultimate power are responsible for the disintegration of Serbia then you're living in another planet.
The said thing is that it all started based on a lie, a fake riot organized by Milosevic's men.

The name of the game in Kosovo is RESOURCES!

That's the kind of business that is about to happen. Actually Italian and British companies are already buying mines and getting things started.

Both Albania and Kosovo are about to experience an energy boom, and energy nowadays means BIG MONEY!

So don't use your "Northern Cyprus like Kosovo" analogy in any standardized tests, you won't get any points for it.
(Funcakes, 16 January 2008 15:27)

Mr Cakes you speak of an
Energy boom sir, currently Albania and Kosovo was having problems producing power matter of fact albania grid completely failed when bulgaria stop export power. These resources you mention to remove these resources you have to destroy the land to move it Strip mining it is called and destroy the landscape for a energy boom. Yea right, people have stop using coal because harms the Air we breathe and you talk about the Trepca mines there is already an enviormental waste land. So please you want to create more Trepca around Kosovo. When ever the EU start to adminster Kosovo they will impose there rules and regulations. No more hanging wires off electric lines, no more smuggling across the borders. I am sure they will put a dent in the Human trafficing as well.

Whole world discovered your lies about albanians

I really like this gay Dmitri Rogozin, he makes me feel that after all I am not that small, since decision of my country Kosova to became indenpendent will cause so much trouble all over the world, including Russia itself?
Well, I would certeinly do anything what's in my power to see Russia weaker and smaller, they just don't deserve all that territory they hold.

to Pyrros,
Yo Beni my man,
what happened now? indifference and degrading comments about Russia have now turned to fear?

"Pyrros" what this mean is this great Ilyrian king of Epir? Pyrros we are not affraid from anybody. We were not affraid when we were fighting to protect our land from Roman empire, then you slavs when you occupied our land, then bizant, then otoman empire until you accepted to be under them, then again Orthodox coalition against albanians which did everything to destroy our culture spirit,fusical licuidation, deportation of hundred thousand of albanians and so on and so on. Now we dont have to fear because whole world has knowledge who are albanians what they gave to global culture and history. Now my dear pyrros whole world supporting us because they covered up your lies about albanians.

Everybody knows now who pushing Serbia against whole world. It is Russia, and that just because of thir interests. Russi can not live if people living in harmony tolerance and free. They will do enything to breake this. We know very well russia. They have Finns territory which was occupied by them, then German terirory,Poland territory, Rumanian, Ukrainian, Turkey, Afganistan, China territory, Korean, Japan etc. This shows who in the fact are Russians and what kind of international law they protecting. Even now they are pushing islamic world against west countries giving them nuke. I wonder till when this islamic countries will be blind and continue to serve Russian interests.

What Dimitri “friend of Mladic” Rogozin is doing (saying “Oh, if the cradle of Serbdom is detached from the Serbland, Armagedon and World War III shall come!”) is mere scare-tactic propaganda, as a way to try to delay the Kosovar independence.

First of all, nationalist Serbs can say what they want, but Kosovo is essentially different form the Abkhazia-South-Ossetia-Transnistria cases.

For Kosovo to be similar to these three above mentioned cases, it would need to be occupied by troops from the Republic of Albania, with Kosovar people using Albanian money, and with Albania demanding Kosovo to be integrated in its territory, and this is not the case. The majority of Kosovar population wants an independent nation of Kosovo, not a Greater Albania.

Looking at the Abkhazia-South-Ossetia-Transnistria cases, we can spot the differences: these three mini-me Soviet Unions uses the ruble, have the Cyrillic alphabet and the Russian language imposed as official language, are dominated by former-KGB-now-FSB viceroys, and are occupied by Russian troops.

And in fact what the Bagapsh-Kokoiti-Smirnov trio really wants is not independent nationhood to its fiefs, but incorporation of them into Russian Federation, with the covert support from Putin’s government.

That’s it.

Yss it is gonna be the end of the world!!!

Just don't undertsand why teh west and K-albanians don't buy this story :)

Canadian,

Northern Cyprus...who doesn't have the recognition of the West, cannot be compared under no circumstances with Kosovo who is about to be recognized by the most important countries in the world.

And the Serbian blockade would be the most ridiculous blockade in the world. You can so easily work around it, I'm surprised anyone is even taking the risk of mentioning it as something serious without sounding too desperate or comedic. You make it sound as if Kosovo is bordered on every corner by Serbia. Unluckily for you, it's not.

And with the kind of support they have from the West, they won't feel the pinch one bit. Businesses are already planning their way into the new money paradise that Kosovo is about to become.

this really scares the Albanians and the Americans.

Funcakes

It is not supposed to scare the Americans and the Albanians, but there are regions around the world that could erupt into violence if Kosovo gets independence. Say what you want about Russia, they have a point here. Not that America is listening, but they do have a point.

beni

Indeed, Russia have been very imperialistic and brutal in the past (as a Pole I know), but to paint Russia as this complete bad guy of the world is also not right. Russia is a good strategic trade partner and I hope that one if Kosovo does get its independence, that Serbia and Kosovo can benefit mutually from Russian and American economic trade, not just one side and not the other.

"Funcakes,

No heat for Kosovo, limited water, limited air travel, no trade route through Serbia, no more passports, and no Northern Kosovo.

Crime will increase by 200%, poverty will get worse and no prospects of any future for Kosovo's Albanian population or their children.

The South of Kosovo will be another Turkish Cyprus!
(Canadian, 15 January 2008 13:57) "

Canadian that still much much better than being murdered and slaughtered under Serbia. It is still much better than being poor under Serbia, which all of us can testify we were. It still beats having to deal with state sponsored crime coming from Serbia, which all of us can testify. I am trying to make you understand our point. The point is that however bad we might have it by being independent, it is always gonna be better than being under Serbia. Can't put it in simpler terms. If you don't get it now then there's no point to talk about anymore.

Pyrro: stop spreading lies!

Pyrro Epiri is the land of EPEVE=IPEVE=ShQIPEVE it's the Eagles land...it is Albania

That's why we dance the Eagles dance (as Pyrro’s people did) and you DON’T.

That's why we dress the Epirs - Pyrros skirts and you Greeks DID NOT till the 19th c.

That's why we sing the polyphonic songs for millenniums and you DON'T

That's why we believe in ZOT as we did in ZEUS and you mysteriously changes ZEUS with THEOS

As far a Alexander the Great is concerned please reed this book (you will enjoy it from the very beginning): W. W. Tarn, Alexander the Great, Beacon Press, Boston, 1966 (Sir William Woodthorpe Tarn is member of the British Academy of Science- to save you some silly comments)

And in the end my friend let us know why you today’s Greeks don't understand a word from the ancient Greek nothing in common neither the grammar or syntax?

Yo Beni my man,
what happened now? indifference and degrading comments about Russia have now turned to fear?

When USA/NATO occupy,bomb,kill they are just the No1 superpower,
when Russia tries to protect world order, they are the bad guys?

Funcakes,

No heat for Kosovo, limited water, limited air travel, no trade route through Serbia, no more passports, and no Northern Kosovo.

Crime will increase by 200%, poverty will get worse and no prospects of any future for Kosovo's Albanian population or their children.

The South of Kosovo will be another Turkish Cyprus!

Srboslav, I’ve read trough the years many opinion polls in Kosovo that show that the majority of the population of Kosovo don’t see themselves as inhabitants of Albania or Serbia, but as Kosovars which may speak Albanian, but are Kosovars from Kosovo, not Albanians from Albania.

The last source I’ve seen this information was The Economist. I don’t think they would deceive anyone on this matter.

"However, today's Russia and today's Germany should not be compared to the past, same as the Serbs of today, the Albanians have no right to judge today's Serbia because of the actions of Milosevic's Yugoslavia. To conclude, the past should not dictate the future, it has caused enough wars and hatred in Europe."

Peter, I agree the past should not dictate the future, but Soviet Union and nazi Germany happened more than 50 years ago, whereas the things we are talking about here happened in the last 15 years. No country in the world can have closure with its past in 15 years. Even the Germans did it in more than 15 years and unfortunately this is the Balkans, not Germany. Give it time and please don't ask for perfection. You cannot cut artificially past and future, especially here in this region where history has become the bitch of all sides..Personally, the only history I know with some degree of certainty and care about is what happened in the last 15-30 years. And it is important..and it can't not influence the near future..it's unrealistic to ask that.

Canadian, you are right on spot here.
But maybe that is what the Kosovo albanian leadership wants?

If they can keep the population poor and hungry they will not interfere with the politicians dirty businesses. The former KLA leadership have transformed to "true democrats" but will continue to enrich themselves, they don't care what is good for the people or children.
The politicians are never going to run out of electricity or water in their palaces, they can afford generators and dwells.

It reminds me of the situaion in Gaza strip, Hamas leadership WANT the palestinians to have a bad life, so they can point to Israel and blame them for all their shortcommings.

To Pyrros
That name doesn’t belong to you. You can keep the “s”but not the rest.
Yes, Illyrians are known today partly because they were mentioned by the old Helen historians.
But …..S my man, they didn’t exist because of that.
Vangel, Mihail, Pandeli are orthodox names. Apart from Greek, they can be Albanian Bulgarian Serbian ECT.
As for Alexander neither he nor his name was Helen. He was Macedonian, not Helen, not Slav. Just Macedonian.

We know that Mr Rogozin, I just wanted to add Republika Srpska in that count.

Beni, During the winter war Russia only asked Finns to kind of lend the teritory for temporary (Karelia region)in order to establish the control in defence against treaths of Germany. However Finns reject that proposal and Russians did not accept the rejection which led to winter war. Of course Finns lost it and thus lost the teritory forever. If the Finns did accept the dil they would have this teritory nowadays. Instead, Finns decided to support and join Nazis (read Germans) during the WWII. Besides, Finns were occupied by Swedes for 700 years and afterwards by Russians who granted them firstly total autonomy during Czar time) and afterwards Russians were the one who granted them independence during Lenin time. I think they made mistake. That much about bad guy Russia and good guy Finland.

I would like to add my sentiments to what bmrusila has said. Republika Srpska WILL gain independence if unilateral recognition of 'greater albania' happens. There is no stopping this. No more double standards and anti-Serb policies. If the EU and Americans want to be friends with Serbs, they should start treating them like human beings and equals, not like insignifcant servants that can be betrayed.
Recognizing the fact that the Serb minority in Kosovo have virtually no human rights, no freedom of movement, and are treated like caged animals in the enclaves, would be a good start. Rewarding such behaviour only shows what they are all about.

With all this talks about highways here and there connecting albania and kosovo, a albanian population of 9 millions and so on, could the albanian side here tell us what you REALLY want? (exept of course not being governed by Belgrade which we already now very well...)
(Srboslav, 15 January 2008 15:09)

I will explain it to you. The highway is being built in a rush actually. Just like last week Fyrom decided to close its border with Albania, blocking $400M/year of goods to Kosovo, Fyrom, Bulgaria, Turkey, in the same way we are afraid that the sercret plan of Belgrade will include trade embargos with Serbia. Now, only about 3-5% of Kosovo's trade is with Albania, making Kosovo dependent on Serbia. I am against economic barriers, and I think that at least one good thing that Albanians and Serbs have trade, let's not destroy that as well. We are being realistic by building the highway because we know that SErbs are not benevolent toward Albanians and no one wants to starve. The highway would serve many purposes such as:
-providing an alternative route to trade, essential food in case of some dirty trick from Belgrade
-opening new trade/cultural channels to Kosovo with the west. The highway will not link Tirana to Pristina, but Pristina to Durres, the port on the Adriatic.
-The highwau will lead through the mountain area that is very very isolated from the rest of Albania and the poorest region of the country. In this way, the highway will also revitalize the area. Every winter the high mountainous terrain is blocked by snow and people don't go to town to get food till the spring, which is backward, ridiculous, medieval for the 21st century.
-transport between Kosovo and Albania that takes hours and hours along hairpin roads that make you car sick will be straightened and shortened. These roads in the Birthern Alps, haven't been maintained since Hoxha's time and are almost unpaved after 25 years. Everyone who has traveled from Albania to Kosovo knows what a nigthmare the road is, not only on your stomach but also on the nerves because at ech turn it feels like the bus/car will plumet down the cliff into the abyss. Unfortunately many accidents happen and are reported on tv. We deserve better/efficient transport infrastructure and cheaper options than flying.

It is called development. No one did it with intentions to HURT anyone, let alone the Serbs. It will only bring benefits to the region.
Culturally we Albanians are united, in a way, the most we have been before. Do you guys really know why before 99 Albanians from albania and those from Kosovo weren't close? Because the Albanians in Albania were put off by Kosovars speaking to them arrogantly in half-Serbia half-Albanian talk. They were considered Serbs, so bye-bye. During 99, many K Albanians came to Albania and we sort of met each other in masses and recognized we are the same blood, same language, same face, same bad habits, same virtues. After 99, no one talks about Serbs anymore, everyone speaks Albanian, some young people have adopted the Tirana talk because of tv or vacations in Albania. Albanians in Albania did nothing at all to influence K-Albanians, not a signle move. In Tirana people call themselves "menefregists", the term comes from Italian, "non me ne frego"-"I don't care".

bmrusila

Imperial Russia/Soviet Union does not deserve any justification for what they did, they murdered millions of Finns, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans, Romanians and especially Ukrainians during and after the war, be it during fighting, in gulags or during death marches.

They were no better than Nazi Germany, the same murderers.

However, today's Russia and today's Germany should not be compared to the past, same as the Serbs of today, the Albanians have no right to judge today's Serbia because of the actions of Milosevic's Yugoslavia. To conclude, the past should not dictate the future, it has caused enough wars and hatred in Europe.

"Russia’s ambassador to NATO Dmitri Rogozin says that Kosovo independence would lead to chaos throughout the world."

==> Damn right it will.

""... the Albanians have no right to judge today's Serbia because of the actions of Milosevic's Yugoslavia. To conclude, the past should not dictate the future, it has caused enough wars and hatred in Europe."

Sure, this makes sense. It's just that sometimes you can't go back. Reminds me of my past fiance. Now, I wish her all the best but there is no way in heck you are going to get me to live under the same roof. I don't care what law jumps what way. Somethings need to stay separate.

Yeah Funcakes!!
All the world is holding its breath until this energy giant called albania/kimeria/kosova/ emerges!!!

"I might be naive but I belive that old Yugoslavia wasn't so bad after all, if only it had been a lot more decentralized, just like EU today and no "who will rule who" discussion like the one in the late 80:s

I have no problem with Kosovo having a governement and being ruled from Pristina, I understand that a province of 2 million albanians cant be ruled completely from Belgrade, but that doesn't mean that I think you should have the right to be independent, in my opinon you should be "self ruling" but not independency,someting siliar to the Kurds in nothern Iraq. And to compare Serbia today to the one in the 90:s is not fair, you know that even the radicals wouldnt start a new war, its just election tactics, just like the KLA leaders are threatening now
(Srboslav, 16 January 2008 21:30) "

Its perfectly fine for me when I hear someone complain about the power of EU. That is a thing that the citizens of each country have to figure out.
As for Serbia being different now from the 90's, I don't buy that for a second. Just yesterday I was watching a documentary on how the crisis in Jugoslavia started. All originating from Serbia and Belgrade itself. It started with staged protests from the Serbs. And then the same people where brought to Vojvodina by train and then Belgrade. They were given the day off each time and it was a paid day. I as a Albanian when I hear Nikolic, Kostunica, Samardjic, the Serb Socialists etc. am not convinced at all that this Serbia is different from Serbia i the 90's. Remember the war started with Serbia changing the Constitution of Kosova/o. Now we have a Serbia that does not allow Kosova/o Albanians to vote for the constitution. Frankly both Serbia's are the same to me.
I would like a sincere answer from you and any Serb here about a hypothetical scenario. Imagine if say Slovenia in the now old Jugoslavia marched with its troops in Serbia, killed thousands of people and ethnically cleansed around 4 million Serbs. Would you or any Serb here after having lived for almost a decade free from Sloven sovereignty willingly accept Slovenia to have sovereignty over you again, however symbolic it might be? I would expect anyone with at least a little bit of sincerity left in him/her to answer no.

Pyrro:

I stated an important part of our today’s culture that SURVIVED, that is directly descendent from the ancient Epirs one. And this culture DID NOT survived, you can’t find a trace in YOURS. This is tangible proof, which you didn't comment.

ZEUS=ZOT in Albanian and ZEUS=THEOS in Greek- you can’t do nothing about that except changing you nationality or the name of God in your language.

And pls. stop manipulating the today’s Greek language with the ancient. They have nothing in common, neither a grammar nor syntax. They are not like (i.e. Italian and Latin)

The ancient Greeks referred to Epir always as non Greek territory, excluding some colonies.

Anyhow reed the book I suggested to you my friend, and stop fishing around. I don’t take as good references the Greek sources, they are too biased. I don’t refer neither to Albanian one, I suggested you a book from a reliable and proved scientist who don’t really agree with you about Alexader.

In the end I really like your stance, listening to you and your Serbian friends Albanian is only Durres, Shkoder (if Montenrgrians don't mind:)) and Tirana, since the south is Greek and Kosova is Serbian : )

Hell, how did we get so many coming only from 3 cities? They must have been metropolis, strange how your illuminated philosopher’s didn’t write about them?!

Dear Niall O'Doherty, I would be very happy to know that we destroyed YUGO, it would be something decent that we've done in our modern history. But we didn’t had that power, actually we couldn't even defend our houses. YUGO was destroyed by yogurt revolutions made by Serbia my friend- well done I would say, otherwise how could we had our kosova independent?

"Is it better to have an own state and be poor and hungry or living in a federation and have it better? Of course this is my opinion, I know that you don't agree, but hypoteticly, which would be best if it was say another state such as Greece and not serbia?

As you wrote about not allowing anyone to have sovereignity over you again even if its symbolic, do you really think that NATO and EU will not rule over you even if you will become independent? At least in a union with Serbia you would be ruled from Pristina, with dual citizenship both albanian and serbian, now you have umnik ones, it that what you really want?
(Srboslav, 17 January 2008 08:50) "

There is this sense of relativity of crimes that were committed, I see coming from the Serbs. While it may be true that crimes were committed by both sides I think it is just ridiculous and offensive to equate the scale of the systematic crimes committed by the Serbian state and government with the crimes committed by individual people in the KLA. I can say that the majority of us Albanians posting here have witnessed these crimes from the Serbian government.

After all these crimes have been committed and ethnic cleansing occurred, in my honest opinion I could care less whether it was Serbia, Italy, Switzerland, UK, USA etc. the state that committed them. I would never accept to live under the sovereignty of that state ever again. I would rather be dirt poor and suffer from poverty then be under a state which I know in the past tried its best to cleanse me out of my home, even by eliminating me physically. There is no guarantee that this state is not going to repeat the same in the future and that I, my children and my parents will not be eliminated or ethnically cleansed. Serbia disregarded all the republics within Jugoslavia, international law, and international troops when it started the wars. There is no guarantee whatsoever that at some point in the future while under Serbian sovereignty Serbia will not try to repeat what it failed to achieve, the ethnic cleansing of Albanians, especially with the likes of Kostunica, Nikolic, Samardjic, Maldic and Karadjic runing free etc etc.

Answering the question about NATO and EU. I think you misunderstood me. I said I would never accept to be under the soveregnity of Serbia. NATO and EU are a different matter. Of course Kosova/o will not have full powers with EU and NATO in Kosova/o but they came and rescued us at the time we most needed them. So if they ask us to make sacrifices for them we are willing to make them.
Secondly, even as an autonomous province of Serbia Kosova/o would not have full powers. On the contrary I believe that with independence recognized by most EU and NATO state Kosova/o will have more say and more powers than under Serbia. We are going to be in direct contact with these organizations we aspire to join, when we are independent. If we were autonomous under Serbia then we risk not joining them at all if Serbia decided not to join them. Again that is the will of Serbia being imposed on us, while we Albanians of Kosova/o want to join both NATO and EU. And lastly I think it is better for us to be "autonomous" (supervised independence) under the EU and with the protection of NATO then under Serbia. I also definitely think that we are going to be better off financial if we have supervised independence than being autonomous under Serbia.
I know my answer is long but I hope you get my point.

" Dear Johnny,

I hate to break the news to you, but the beginning of the end for YU came with the Pristina riots in 1981. Thats a historical fact.

Barely a year after the Great Man, Comrade Josip Broz Tito was laid to rest, you lot were the first to rock the boat, not the Serbs. Please stop blaming the Serbs for everything that went wrong in YU. You may have helped destroy YU but you will will be resisted in your attempts to destroy Serbia by legal means. Please stop trying to twist the facts and history to suit your own agenda.
(Niall O'Doherty, Ireland, 17 January 2008 11:26)"

Niall I would advise you to check those facts again. When I heard from the mouth of those closest to Milosevic how they organized the fake riots there was no doubt in my mind, Milosevic used Kosova/o to gain ultimate power in Jugoslavia. The whole war on Jugoslavia was based on a lie fabricated by Milosevic ad his cronies in Kosova/o. I am talkig about the very first one. The one where Milosevic comes out and says you will not be beaten again. When Milosevic's men come out and say how fake the whole thing was I do not need someone from Ireland to tell me what the history facts are. If the organizers of the fake riot say it was fake, then I would believe them and not you. Then the same rioters were given a day off, payed, and shipped by train to Vojvodina where they started other fake riots, then they were shipped to Belgrade.
When Milosevic comes out and says to the other republic heads that he doesn't care about the Jugoslav constitution, we are gonna do as we please in Kosova/o if you do not back us up. Then I would believe that rather than your rhetoric about history. When the Slovenian head leaves the same meeting alarmed that Serbia and Milosevic is disintegrating Jugoslavia and immediately flies home, I would believe that rather than you. When the next morning Prishtina wakes up by the sounds of Serbian tanks, I would believe that rather than you. When that same day the Albanian head of the party in Kosova talks in a protest against the militarization of Kosova/o and for a dialog with Albanians and Serbs to leave in peace I believe that rather than you. When Milosevic calls him immediately after that, threatens him and after that arrest him, I believe that rather then you. When after that he is sour then Tudjman won and sends Migs to shoot Croatian helicopters flying over Serbian inhabited areas, I believe that rather than your facts. You and other Serbs here ca blame us all they want about the fall if Jugoslavia. If by now neither you nor the Serbs here have not realized that the Serbia government with Milosevic and his hunger for ultimate power are responsible for the disintegration of Serbia then you're living in another planet.
The said thing is that it all started based on a lie, a fake riot organized by Milosevic's men.

Bad Gorila, interesting thing you wrote here:

"The majority of Kosovar population wants an independent nation of Kosovo, not a Greater Albania."

With all this talks about highways here and there connecting albania and kosovo, a albanian population of 9 millions and so on, could the albanian side here tell us what you REALLY want? (exept of course not being governed by Belgrade which we already now very well...)

Beni,
1st i am not slav,
2nd Illirians are written in history just because some Greeks chose to write about this extinct insignificant race.

Pyrros (pyr=fire) is a greek name just like Alexandros, Vagelis, Mihalis, Pantelis
(you know what i mean - and the rest of names you can find in N. Ipiros (now S. Albania)

Funcakes said >> "Businesses are already planning their way into the new money paradise that Kosovo is about to become."

What Kosovo business' are you talking about Funcakes? Drug trade, human trafficking, gun running, extortion? There are no real business' in Kosovo and I know because I was in Kosovo and Pristina this past September, the only booming business there are Café's and gas stations, that's it!

If you live in Kosovo, then your mind is in LA-LA land if this is what you think, however if you don't live in Kosovo than you are babbling about things you do not know anything about.

Serbia's geographic location in the Balkans is vital for Kosovo's trade and for other countries in the region, why do you think the EU is so desperate to have Serbia in the Union? Or do you think the EU is simply playing a child's game with Serbia in teasing it about the EU?

True that! Their is no middle groud here. This Kosovo indep thing will cause one big mess or nothing at all. We'll have to wait and see. I think it will open Pandora's box and cause more problems than the world needs right now. It won't happen over night but it will happen. Starting possably with RS or Spain. But if the pro-indep countries what to divid the world along ethnic lines so be it. This will be on their hands not those countries against it. Good luck with the mess you created.

Bad Gorilla, nice attempt to avoid my question by refering to west's media :-)

But do you and the other albanians here want a greater Albania or not? I am not saying being ruled by Tirana, which is not the same thing but what I am asking is that if you would like all Albanians to live in one state? (being governed by diffrent capitals such as Pristina or Tirana but still in the same state?) Would you like unification with the Albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija or do you se albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija as Montenegrin and Makedonijan citizens ?

Peter,

I did not try to justify the crimes commited by Soviet Union, far from that but just to explain what was the Russian intention when occupied Karelia region in Finland. I am sure that if they managed to make deal between each other, Finns would have their Karelia still nowadays. At least that is what I think. Unfortanately they end up in the war between themselves. I just wanted to say that some countries have that right to say NO even to lending the teritory while some countries have no right to defend its teritory from seceding. And as you pointed out the past should not be taken into acount but for Serbs that rule seems does not apply and we must be punished by taking our land from us, by taking cradle of our Serbian civilization. Just try to imagine how would you feel if Germans tried to take 15% of the teritory that belogs to you Poles.

Independent Kosovo = independent Abkhazia. Of course!

And then finally the US can recognize Taiwan :)

Mika, Kosovo doesn't deserve indep. Funcakes, that UN thing was funny. Ben or beni albanians are not direct decendents of Ilyrians they are extinct. Jonny, K-Albanians couldn't handle full indep. To the rest of you please stop taking other peoples history and converting it to Albanian history. Make your own please.

Mika, you wrote that you would do anything in your power to see Russia weaker and smaller. I belive you. I'm sure you would like nothing better.

There is only one problem. You can't do anything to achieve that. Russia will not let you or your backers.

Your wishes do not count for anything with Russia and it's allies.

The Brits being the standard bearer for Kosovo independence should put their money where their mouth is.

Leave Northern Ireland and support the unification of the Irish people. 800 years of British colonial rule. They will go to the Balkans to push such nonsense but will not support realistic solutions right at home.

"Bad Gorilla, nice attempt to avoid my question by refering to west's media :-)

But do you and the other albanians here want a greater Albania or not? I am not saying being ruled by Tirana, which is not the same thing but what I am asking is that if you would like all Albanians to live in one state? (being governed by diffrent capitals such as Pristina or Tirana but still in the same state?) Would you like unification with the Albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija or do you se albanians in Montenegro and Makedonija as Montenegrin and Makedonijan citizens ?
(Srboslav, 15 January 2008 20:12) "

Srboslav your question is a good question. I consider myself to be the average Albanian. As such I think I am able to distinguish between dreams and reality, between what I want and what is possible. So here's what I think is the reality. Kosova/o is going to be independent. Did I think it was going to be independent before 1999. No way, not even close. After 1999 things changed. Since that happened Serbia cannot be trusted anymore to have sovereignty over Albanians anymore. If 1999 did not happen there is no way Kosova/o would be independent and for US to have support from the West. To that we add the fact that Kosova/o has been separate and completely independent from Serbia for 9 years now. There is now way 2 million Albanians accepting willingly a political status which is lower to what they've had for 9 years. I believe that is the reality in Kosova/o.
As for Macedonia and Montenegro, there is now way the Albanian inhabited areas will secede from them. Unless of course they decide to repeat what Serbia did in 1999. I think that's not gonna happen. I believe that is the reality in Macedonia and Montenegro.
Now wanting and dreaming about something is very different from reality. The reality is that us as Albanians will be able to move most of the barriers that are in our way only when Albania, Kosova/o, Macedonia, and Montengro, Serbia ( have in mind Presheva Valley Albanians) become EU members. Anything else is just a pipe dream.
I believe that you as an average Serb also agree that the only way all the Serbs can remove the majority of the barriers that stand in their way is when Serbia and all places where there are Serbs join the EU and everything else is a pipe dream.

To beni and the other friend:

Epeiros (Apeiros in Dorian) means infinite land/continent
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=el|en&text=%CE%91%CF%80%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=el|en&text=%CE%97%CF%80%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%81%CF%89%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C%CF%82
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon?query_e=%C7%D0%C5%C9%D1%CF%D3 (and then click on find)

Theos means God, Zeus,Dias was two of the many nicknames for the father of the 12 gods.
Theio means divine, and has the same root as the Latin Dio.
(of course you are not indoeuropean so you hardly knew that)

Alexandros = Alex-Andras (peotector of man) like alexikeraunos = protector against thunder, alexisfairo=protecting against bullets, etc...

A fine tool also is http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

Now about our language, it is very similar to the ancient one.

But this site is about Serbia, please stop deviating anything in sight.

Beni, look at
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Bios/PyrrhusTetradrachm.jpg
and then ask any North Epirot
(Ag. Saranta, Argyrokastro, Korytsa, Avlona) to translate it to you.
This is a greek coin of the Greek King of Greek Hpeiros.

Now lets talk about Serbia, shall we?

bmrusila

"Just try to imagine how would you feel if Germans tried to take 15% of the teritory that belogs to you Poles."

This is why I sympathize with the Serbs. If I were to try and imagine that the Germans wanted to take Wielkopolska (with the ancient towns of Kalisz, Gniezno and Poznan), I would not find it acceptable. On the other hand I would also know that in this day and age, it would be up to the international community and not Poland to decide. Such is the world these days.

"Give it time and please don't ask for perfection."

Of course I don't, it's perfectly understandable, Polish-German relations, for instance, were still tense for years until Willy Brandt began his Ostpolitik. I just hope that it will happen and that Serbs and Albanians live in peace with each other. This is why in the back of my mind I still hope for compromise, though I know it isn't realistic, looking at how the sides differ in stance.

Canadian,

The name of the game in Kosovo is RESOURCES!

That's the kind of business that is about to happen. Actually Italian and British companies are already buying mines and getting things started.

Both Albania and Kosovo are about to experience an energy boom, and energy nowadays means BIG MONEY!

So don't use your "Northern Cyprus like Kosovo" analogy in any standardized tests, you won't get any points for it.

Anthony,

What is your problem? Northern-Irland, mostly protestant is just fine within the UK....doesn't want any uification with the Republic. Is it so hard to understand it?

TO: (johny, 16 January 2008, 04:35)

Thanks for your sincere reply, I appreciate it.

I agree very much with you regarding the barriers for common people. But I am unfortuntely not so convinced anymore that EU is the soulution for Serbia or the other balkan states, just look at the way EU are treating Croatia regarding the fishing zone in the adriatic sea. Imagine if it was a poorer country like Albania or Montenegro, what could they do to resist? Nothing, just letting the italian fishing fleat completely empty their waters before moving on to other countries

I might be naive but I belive that old Yugoslavia wasn't so bad after all, if only it had been a lot more decentralized, just like EU today and no "who will rule who" discussion like the one in the late 80:s

I have no problem with Kosovo having a governement and being ruled from Pristina, I understand that a province of 2 million albanians cant be ruled completely from Belgrade, but that doesn't mean that I think you should have the right to be independent, in my opinon you should be "self ruling" but not independency,someting siliar to the Kurds in nothern Iraq. And to compare Serbia today to the one in the 90:s is not fair, you know that even the radicals wouldnt start a new war, its just election tactics, just like the KLA leaders are threatening now

B92, thank you for the chance of debate.
To Pyrro:
After all I’ll let you use that name. (But don’t abuse it) What the heck, we’ve got so many great ideas from your distant ancestors. We even got so many names, like “Europe” for example. I would like to learn something from you now.
You are right, so let’s talk about the subject in hand.
As for the Serbs:
I don’t know why but somehow I feel attached to them. Both Serbians and Albanians are genuinely very hospitable brave and proud. But they can be ruthless as well. Like Millosevic .Can’t totally blame him thou. I think that the ghost of that Zervas of yours whispered in his ear and drove him mad. And mainly because of him Kosovo will have to be independent. But he died in shame. Not Zervas thou.
The feeling I have for the Serbs could be I think because we are blood related. After all the Serbians, Slovenes Montenegrins Bosnians emerged from the assimilation of the Illyrian tribes by the Slav tribes arriving in the Balkans in the 7 century.
That’s why I think we’ve got this love and hate relationship.
That’s why no matter what happens to Kosovo, we should not burn all bridges. Because soon both nations Serbians and Albanians will be under one state; Europe.
problem being small. I wish I could but I don’t feel the same way about the Greeks Pyrro.I could be affected by my neighbour in Albania .He died in vain because he couldn’t visit his mother’s grave in Preveza.
And Pirro my man the “Megali Idea” is not Albanian.
To us Albanians as the English say: The best things come in small package.

Johny, you wrote " would like a sincere answer from you and any Serb here about a hypothetical scenario. Imagine if say Slovenia in the now old Jugoslavia marched with its troops in Serbia, killed thousands of people and ethnically cleansed around 4 million Serbs. Would you or any Serb here after having lived for almost a decade free from Sloven sovereignty willingly accept Slovenia to have sovereignty over you again, however symbolic it might be? I would expect anyone with at least a little bit of sincerity left in him/her to answer no.
(johny, 16 January 2008, 22:56"

I will try to answer this, if the criterias that you wrote were true I would say NO

BUT and read this also, the situation you mentioned is not the same as Belgrade-Pristina conflict.

Yes Slobo did horrible crimes against the albanians in Kosovo, but so did the UCK agains the serbs. One could argue forever who started this, did the KLA start to kill innocent mailmen and police or was it the police that killed innocent albanians first? Probably both statements are true considering the traditional brutality of the police forces in all Balkan countries.
But it doesn't really matter anymore, now both sides has to think what will we do next? What will be best for our children?

Is it better to have an own state and be poor and hungry or living in a federation and have it better? Of course this is my opinion, I know that you don't agree, but hypoteticly, which would be best if it was say another state such as Greece and not serbia?

As you wrote about not allowing anyone to have sovereignity over you again even if its symbolic, do you really think that NATO and EU will not rule over you even if you will become independent? At least in a union with Serbia you would be ruled from Pristina, with dual citizenship both albanian and serbian, now you have umnik ones, it that what you really want?

Dear Johnny,

I hate to break the news to you, but the beginning of the end for YU came with the Pristina riots in 1981. Thats a historical fact.

Barely a year after the Great Man, Comrade Josip Broz Tito was laid to rest, you lot were the first to rock the boat, not the Serbs. Please stop blaming the Serbs for everything that went wrong in YU. You may have helped destroy YU but you will will be resisted in your attempts to destroy Serbia by legal means. Please stop trying to twist the facts and history to suit your own agenda.

The name of the game in Kosovo is RESOURCES!

That's the kind of business that is about to happen. Actually Italian and British companies are already buying mines and getting things started.

Both Albania and Kosovo are about to experience an energy boom, and energy nowadays means BIG MONEY!

So don't use your "Northern Cyprus like Kosovo" analogy in any standardized tests, you won't get any points for it.
(Funcakes, 16 January 2008 15:27)

Mr Cakes you speak of an
Energy boom sir, currently Albania and Kosovo was having problems producing power matter of fact albania grid completely failed when bulgaria stop export power. These resources you mention to remove these resources you have to destroy the land to move it Strip mining it is called and destroy the landscape for a energy boom. Yea right, people have stop using coal because harms the Air we breathe and you talk about the Trepca mines there is already an enviormental waste land. So please you want to create more Trepca around Kosovo. When ever the EU start to adminster Kosovo they will impose there rules and regulations. No more hanging wires off electric lines, no more smuggling across the borders. I am sure they will put a dent in the Human trafficing as well.