34

Tuesday, 15.01.2008.

12:01

“Army won't act without KFOR request”

Dragan Šutanovac says that the Serbian Army (VS) will only conduct operations in Kosovo if asked by KFOR.

Izvor: Tanjug

“Army won't act without KFOR request” IMAGE SOURCE
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34 Komentari

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calpirinha

pre 16 godina

to ivana:
i like to surf often in B92 site and I find it preatty democratic. But belive me that there is a great deal of tolerance among us Albanians. Comments on the forum are not an evidence of tolerance or lack of tolerance. Your name is very dear to me since I am going to marry Ivana soon in Belgrade. Its such a beautiful thing to marry her.:)))

tesla

pre 16 godina

I am tempted to use the words "mark my words" but that has already been abused by our Albanian countrymen to the point of comedy.

In the end, I predict VS entering Kosovo to not only secure ALL of the borders (1244), but all of the Serb settlements as well, where Serbs form a population of a dozen or so.

This my friends will give final meaning to the word "de facto." A word which is abused to much here.

In other spheres, this reality is expressed by the terms "check mate," or "when the fat lady sings."

Only when Serbs and Albanians guard their own people, will there be true peace. This will achieve a multi-ethnic Serbia for all. Also, no Albanian will be able to use the excuse of potential Serbian military oppression when a new security arrangement is devised.

Personally, if I lived in Kosovo, I would have no desire at all to live with Albanians but would be willing to share the province.

Niko

pre 16 godina

Peter,
I agree with you that the situation is very fragile. After all Kosovo is the powder keg of the Balkans. In my opinion, armies should speak last, not first. K-Albanians will not trust the good will of the Serbian Army to just protect Kosovo Serbs. You can call them paranoid, but their experiences speak otherwise. Last time, such protection let some 10 000 dead Kosovar Albanians and 120 000 houses burned to stop KLA's insurgency. KLA had some 25 000 members at it's peak. So, either each KLA member owned 6 houses, or the Serbian Army overdid it with the protection.
Sometimes, goodwilling statements do more harm that good.
Best regards

Jovan z

pre 16 godina

Is it Bubalo or Budalo because to the people trying to take Kosmet it looks like the latter.It seems that this type of rhetoric is meant to show NATO/UN that Srbija will pursue peace to the very last possible moment but if cleansing ops start up I really do not see how Beograd would stand by.Peace should prevail but any army must practice contingency plans.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Nico

I did read something about this indeed. There was also a drive-by shooting of a Serb. This then caused riots in Kosovo, which then caused attacks on Albanians in Blegrade and the rest of Serbia. It is what is called a symbolic attack, it then spurred Albanians and Serbs to act, that is how fragile the situation was, and probably still is. This is why KFOR needs to be ever-vigilant, because the level of hatred is still high and the risk of open conflict equally as high, which is why the Serbian army said it is offering help if KFOR would be unable to handle possible attacks on the Serbian population Kosovo, I doubt they actually mean sending in their ground and air forces to deal with paramilitaries.

Jack

pre 16 godina

Niko, I'm sure I wont be the only person to respond to your post.

"the violence in 2004 started after 10 Albanians (2 of them 8 years old kids) were lynched by Serbian mobs."

Please provide me with a link to an UNMIK report or article from a reputable news source which confirms this story about lynchings. As far as I and the many other foreigners which post here are concerned, the 2004 pogrom was initially whipped up by the Albanian language papers in Pristina printing hysteric false reports about Serbs chasing Albanian children into the Ibar.

If any other foreigner (not a member of a former yugoslav state) has any knowledge of this please add your own post.

Erhan

pre 16 godina

"Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance. "

I give it respect. It does OK with not limiting speech. Although, that is an OK. Although, at times it "edits" views that make Serbia look bad or shall I say orthodox extremism (my post was edited on a comment about this).

Niko

pre 16 godina

[quote]Taking the Serbian side now, I do hope KFOR can cope with any instability more efficiency than the last time. Last time in 2004, Serbs were attacked for no reason by Albanian mobs (Peter Sudyka, 15 January 2008 15:34) [/quote]
If you check the facts, the violence in 2004 started after 10 Albanians (2 of them 8 years old kids) were lynched by Serbian mobs. Maybe for you and me who live thousands of miles away this is "no reason", but for the locals with fresh memories from ethnic cleasing of 1999 that was a very good reason.
I don't support violence from neither side, but let's not forget the facts.

Anthony

pre 16 godina

The Voska Srbija is legally able to and morally compelled to act to protect its own people. Serving a two year tour with US KFOR I am sure to say that the cooperation between the VS and MNTF-E is relatively good. I do not believe for one minute that if the 78th Serbian Mech Infantry parked in downtown Gnjilane to protect what we Americans have jokingly called the Serb-erbs (suburbs surrong Gnjilane), no shots would be fire by Americans or Serbs at each other.

The Serbian army and military forces are allowed into Kos-Met to protect Serbs, especially patrimonial sites.

I do have a fear that if the Serb Army did not react during March 2004, I can not see very many scenarios where they would.

One would be if there was an insurgent invasion of Serb triangle in the North by KLA terrorists; or they would Army and support local Serbs in defense of their homes and property.

I could also see such intervention if there are serious threats posed to places like Decani, Gracanica, or other sites. The only reason I believe that they would react now, even though they did not when 200 other Churches were razed to the ground, are the ongoing discussions on when KPS would take over the protection of these "fixed sites" from the Italians, or the Swedes respectfully.

Delije

pre 16 godina

Damn Miri the VS is useless, then why so scared to let them in and protect their people and cultrul sites. The black hole you talk about is revamped and similar to more modern armys. The real black hole (money pit) is Kosovo. Well at least for the last 8 years. Dont worry about the VS they are more than capable of handling the KLA or the ANA in any terrorist attack. Worry about your corrupt KPS that cant even solve one case.

KS

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36)

Ivana, the people who are PRO-INDEPENDENCE are not necessarily Albanians. I for one am ethnically Bosnian (some Albanian). And there are some commenters here who are internationals. Also to a Serb anyone who has an opinion seems to be "insulting the Serbs".

My "general observation" is that you Serbs got cocky during Greater Serbia so you believe that you right, that you are SUPERIOR. Look around, it's out of your hands. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova, Macedonia...all are gone, you are going to learn to treat everyone equally because you're not hotshots and you don't hold much power.
If you want to be in charge, than maybe the EU isn't such a good place.

Clean Cut

pre 16 godina

"Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36) "


- No Ivana, there is no such website just yest. Sorry, we Albanians have been busy surviving wars and persecutions and also gaining independence for Kosova, but I am sure that very soon your wishes will be fulfilled.

Zoran

pre 16 godina

Diplomacy without the threat of force is just a lot of hot air. Serbia does not need a "legal" basis to enter Kosovo, it already has one, Kosovo is Serbian territory and the VS has all the right in the world to protect Serbs and THEIR land. The current pro-West government is on shaky grounds and weak, defeatist statements like this will help bring in a new government; keep it up guys!

Jovan

pre 16 godina

the mere fact that the Albanians here do not understand that it could indeed happen that KFOR asks for assistance shows how naive some of their approaches are.

after the umpteenths time of delay and postponement, the Albanians will realize that they are being duped. and then, we will see whether they are smart enough to accept broad autonomy in order to get more than under the plans of NATO or to be more precise the US...

yes, then we will see whether tey are smart enough...or whether they resort to violence. and in that case, Serbia is ready and prepared. and highly motivated.

but let´s all hope that won´t be necessary at all.

femi

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36)

Very good point Ivana.

There are some Albanian sites, including one run by RTK where people comment but they are conducted in Albanian language, and 10X the power of the Avogdro number pro independent.
(so not very interesting site after all).

But you are right I have thought so many times about it myself, and one day I need to stop wasting my time, because there are many smarter things that I got to do, but somehow I have got hooked into this habit that I simply cannot stop.

GSP

pre 16 godina

Based on the comments from the albanian camp - it's obvious that THEY are the issue.

Srboslav - I am too as they (KFOR) cannot be trusted - particularly hiding behind the proven corrupt UNMIK.

johny

pre 16 godina

brmsula said:"I just hope that our Army is ready to react even without KFOR premission if the life of Serbs were seriously jeopardized."

That would break 1244 and international law. How can you be the most ardent defender of international law and then break it intentionally. There also other Serbs here that advocate that if the EU mission enters Kosova/o then the Serbia army should enter Kosova/o even though resolution 1244 prevents it and is against international law. Then as an Albanian this plays very well with us. Serbia disregarded all the international laws in the 90's and all international norms. So it is only logical for the international community and us Albanians to disregard any claim by the Serbian side about international law, just as brmsula and the other Serbs claim in this site.


P.S For any Serbs here who wants to go on an Albanian website and freely talk about Kosova/o or whatever they want they can go to Albanian.com I assure you you posts will not disappear like they do here on B92 sometimes. You can bash Albanians all you want there and say whatever you want. However just expect to be bashed back if you decide to go that way. The politics section is open for everyone in that website.
I hope that answers your question Ivana.

KS

pre 16 godina

Serbian "Army" has become useless, maybe Tadic should rethink NATO and send this "army" to Iraq and make some money as Black Water Corp.

miri

pre 16 godina

To brumsila "Why don't we just abolish the Army and let world's vagrants to dismember our country"

Actually that would be a very good idea. Your army is useless anyway now days, is just a black hole that sucks all the funds that could otherwise would be used to improve poor people's lives.

Olf

pre 16 godina

Serbian army even if asked to come will not come. Parts of Kosova popalated with Serbs are described by local Serbs as Little Columbia. So, I dont shink that they are serious but they are just sending this kind of messages since because of the elections.

Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

What a bunch of babies if the Serbian came back to Kosovo those who are talking all this non sense would head for the border like last time. If KFOR ask for assistance those making all these comments will be quite and mind your own business because they will jointly patrol with KFOR so you attack the Serb Forces you attack KFOR so there. Have a nice day.

Igor

pre 16 godina

Remember when KFOR asked for help to control the buffer zone, because they couldnt control the crime and terrorists there. Then they finally let them move into the buffer zone. KFOR will not know what to do with the terrorists and VS will know exactly, because they dealt with those kinda of people for a very long time.

Srboslav

pre 16 godina

As long as the albanians don't attack the serbs in northern Kosovo or are trying to expell them too, just as in southern Kosovo there is no need for Serbian Army to enter Kosovo. But I am scared that the Albanians in southern kosovo will not peacefully tolerate that the north Kosovo becomes independent from the south it they wish to separete from Serbia

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Taking the Serbian side now, I do hope KFOR can cope with any instability more efficiency than the last time. Last time in 2004, Serbs were attacked for no reason by Albanian mobs (yes yes, Serbs did the same to Albanians, Macedonians did the same to Albanians, blah blah blah) and churches, hundreds of years old were desecrated and sometimes completely demolished. KFOR must be ready to crack down hard on anyone threatening instability in the region (those those destroy priceless religious and cultural artifacts or threaten human life), be they Serbs or Albanians, because as things stand, their track record is not particularly impressive thus far.

ZK UK

pre 16 godina

No need to get emotional guys. Of course the Serbian army will protect the Serbian people.

Try reading between the lines. 1244 specifies no Serbian force in Kosovo unless invited and 1244 also indicates no EU force unless approved. He is just demonstrating at this stage that Serbia is abiding by the resolution.

However, if the EU force attempts to slip into Kosovo through the back door then perhaps Serbia can also find a legal means to have its troops enter Kosovo.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

bmrusila:
"You know what, I prefer us to be rather guilty than to be victims once again. "

You’v been guilty as charged all the time, it's sad your nationalistic convictions driven by religious zealously, wont let you see it.
I guess executing 8000 civilian in Srebrenica is not enough for you!
Attempting to ethnically cleaning Kosova out of its Albanian population by expulsions of 1 million Albanians is not enough for you?

Ivana

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

Mr Sutanovac I have to ask you back what is the purpose of having army if not to defend its people. Why don't we just abolish the Army and let world's vagrants to dismember our country. I just hope that our Army is ready to react even without KFOR premission if the life of Serbs were seriously jeopardized. Lets believe that this is only pre-election rhethoric. I just cannot believe that you trust KFOR or NATO for that matter who failed in every mission. For God's sake take just a statement of that Kenyan NATO trooper in Bosnia who said "My country, Kenya, had no special interest in Srebrenica that I would have defended there," Kingori said". Mr Sutanovac, are you going to let this kind of soldiers or officers to decide over Serbian lives? You know what, I prefer us to be rather guilty than to be victims once again. Shame on you if you betry our people in Kosovo and withhold defence.

Afrim Hoxha

pre 16 godina

This shows how funny serb politicians are.
It also shows that the serb military will only do something if it is allowed by KFOR, otherwise they wont even move one inch without KFOR allowing it. It shows that KFOR is in charge.

F.S.

pre 16 godina

this really is ridiculous, this article really made me laugh a lot. I mean, haw can Serbia axpect that one day KFOR will ask for help, especially to attack Kosovo???

ZK UK

pre 16 godina

No need to get emotional guys. Of course the Serbian army will protect the Serbian people.

Try reading between the lines. 1244 specifies no Serbian force in Kosovo unless invited and 1244 also indicates no EU force unless approved. He is just demonstrating at this stage that Serbia is abiding by the resolution.

However, if the EU force attempts to slip into Kosovo through the back door then perhaps Serbia can also find a legal means to have its troops enter Kosovo.

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

Mr Sutanovac I have to ask you back what is the purpose of having army if not to defend its people. Why don't we just abolish the Army and let world's vagrants to dismember our country. I just hope that our Army is ready to react even without KFOR premission if the life of Serbs were seriously jeopardized. Lets believe that this is only pre-election rhethoric. I just cannot believe that you trust KFOR or NATO for that matter who failed in every mission. For God's sake take just a statement of that Kenyan NATO trooper in Bosnia who said "My country, Kenya, had no special interest in Srebrenica that I would have defended there," Kingori said". Mr Sutanovac, are you going to let this kind of soldiers or officers to decide over Serbian lives? You know what, I prefer us to be rather guilty than to be victims once again. Shame on you if you betry our people in Kosovo and withhold defence.

Ivana

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.

Srboslav

pre 16 godina

As long as the albanians don't attack the serbs in northern Kosovo or are trying to expell them too, just as in southern Kosovo there is no need for Serbian Army to enter Kosovo. But I am scared that the Albanians in southern kosovo will not peacefully tolerate that the north Kosovo becomes independent from the south it they wish to separete from Serbia

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Taking the Serbian side now, I do hope KFOR can cope with any instability more efficiency than the last time. Last time in 2004, Serbs were attacked for no reason by Albanian mobs (yes yes, Serbs did the same to Albanians, Macedonians did the same to Albanians, blah blah blah) and churches, hundreds of years old were desecrated and sometimes completely demolished. KFOR must be ready to crack down hard on anyone threatening instability in the region (those those destroy priceless religious and cultural artifacts or threaten human life), be they Serbs or Albanians, because as things stand, their track record is not particularly impressive thus far.

Igor

pre 16 godina

Remember when KFOR asked for help to control the buffer zone, because they couldnt control the crime and terrorists there. Then they finally let them move into the buffer zone. KFOR will not know what to do with the terrorists and VS will know exactly, because they dealt with those kinda of people for a very long time.

GSP

pre 16 godina

Based on the comments from the albanian camp - it's obvious that THEY are the issue.

Srboslav - I am too as they (KFOR) cannot be trusted - particularly hiding behind the proven corrupt UNMIK.

Zoran

pre 16 godina

Diplomacy without the threat of force is just a lot of hot air. Serbia does not need a "legal" basis to enter Kosovo, it already has one, Kosovo is Serbian territory and the VS has all the right in the world to protect Serbs and THEIR land. The current pro-West government is on shaky grounds and weak, defeatist statements like this will help bring in a new government; keep it up guys!

Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

What a bunch of babies if the Serbian came back to Kosovo those who are talking all this non sense would head for the border like last time. If KFOR ask for assistance those making all these comments will be quite and mind your own business because they will jointly patrol with KFOR so you attack the Serb Forces you attack KFOR so there. Have a nice day.

Afrim Hoxha

pre 16 godina

This shows how funny serb politicians are.
It also shows that the serb military will only do something if it is allowed by KFOR, otherwise they wont even move one inch without KFOR allowing it. It shows that KFOR is in charge.

F.S.

pre 16 godina

this really is ridiculous, this article really made me laugh a lot. I mean, haw can Serbia axpect that one day KFOR will ask for help, especially to attack Kosovo???

Clean Cut

pre 16 godina

"Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36) "


- No Ivana, there is no such website just yest. Sorry, we Albanians have been busy surviving wars and persecutions and also gaining independence for Kosova, but I am sure that very soon your wishes will be fulfilled.

Jack

pre 16 godina

Niko, I'm sure I wont be the only person to respond to your post.

"the violence in 2004 started after 10 Albanians (2 of them 8 years old kids) were lynched by Serbian mobs."

Please provide me with a link to an UNMIK report or article from a reputable news source which confirms this story about lynchings. As far as I and the many other foreigners which post here are concerned, the 2004 pogrom was initially whipped up by the Albanian language papers in Pristina printing hysteric false reports about Serbs chasing Albanian children into the Ibar.

If any other foreigner (not a member of a former yugoslav state) has any knowledge of this please add your own post.

laki NY

pre 16 godina

bmrusila:
"You know what, I prefer us to be rather guilty than to be victims once again. "

You’v been guilty as charged all the time, it's sad your nationalistic convictions driven by religious zealously, wont let you see it.
I guess executing 8000 civilian in Srebrenica is not enough for you!
Attempting to ethnically cleaning Kosova out of its Albanian population by expulsions of 1 million Albanians is not enough for you?

Jovan

pre 16 godina

the mere fact that the Albanians here do not understand that it could indeed happen that KFOR asks for assistance shows how naive some of their approaches are.

after the umpteenths time of delay and postponement, the Albanians will realize that they are being duped. and then, we will see whether they are smart enough to accept broad autonomy in order to get more than under the plans of NATO or to be more precise the US...

yes, then we will see whether tey are smart enough...or whether they resort to violence. and in that case, Serbia is ready and prepared. and highly motivated.

but let´s all hope that won´t be necessary at all.

Anthony

pre 16 godina

The Voska Srbija is legally able to and morally compelled to act to protect its own people. Serving a two year tour with US KFOR I am sure to say that the cooperation between the VS and MNTF-E is relatively good. I do not believe for one minute that if the 78th Serbian Mech Infantry parked in downtown Gnjilane to protect what we Americans have jokingly called the Serb-erbs (suburbs surrong Gnjilane), no shots would be fire by Americans or Serbs at each other.

The Serbian army and military forces are allowed into Kos-Met to protect Serbs, especially patrimonial sites.

I do have a fear that if the Serb Army did not react during March 2004, I can not see very many scenarios where they would.

One would be if there was an insurgent invasion of Serb triangle in the North by KLA terrorists; or they would Army and support local Serbs in defense of their homes and property.

I could also see such intervention if there are serious threats posed to places like Decani, Gracanica, or other sites. The only reason I believe that they would react now, even though they did not when 200 other Churches were razed to the ground, are the ongoing discussions on when KPS would take over the protection of these "fixed sites" from the Italians, or the Swedes respectfully.

KS

pre 16 godina

Serbian "Army" has become useless, maybe Tadic should rethink NATO and send this "army" to Iraq and make some money as Black Water Corp.

johny

pre 16 godina

brmsula said:"I just hope that our Army is ready to react even without KFOR premission if the life of Serbs were seriously jeopardized."

That would break 1244 and international law. How can you be the most ardent defender of international law and then break it intentionally. There also other Serbs here that advocate that if the EU mission enters Kosova/o then the Serbia army should enter Kosova/o even though resolution 1244 prevents it and is against international law. Then as an Albanian this plays very well with us. Serbia disregarded all the international laws in the 90's and all international norms. So it is only logical for the international community and us Albanians to disregard any claim by the Serbian side about international law, just as brmsula and the other Serbs claim in this site.


P.S For any Serbs here who wants to go on an Albanian website and freely talk about Kosova/o or whatever they want they can go to Albanian.com I assure you you posts will not disappear like they do here on B92 sometimes. You can bash Albanians all you want there and say whatever you want. However just expect to be bashed back if you decide to go that way. The politics section is open for everyone in that website.
I hope that answers your question Ivana.

Delije

pre 16 godina

Damn Miri the VS is useless, then why so scared to let them in and protect their people and cultrul sites. The black hole you talk about is revamped and similar to more modern armys. The real black hole (money pit) is Kosovo. Well at least for the last 8 years. Dont worry about the VS they are more than capable of handling the KLA or the ANA in any terrorist attack. Worry about your corrupt KPS that cant even solve one case.

miri

pre 16 godina

To brumsila "Why don't we just abolish the Army and let world's vagrants to dismember our country"

Actually that would be a very good idea. Your army is useless anyway now days, is just a black hole that sucks all the funds that could otherwise would be used to improve poor people's lives.

Olf

pre 16 godina

Serbian army even if asked to come will not come. Parts of Kosova popalated with Serbs are described by local Serbs as Little Columbia. So, I dont shink that they are serious but they are just sending this kind of messages since because of the elections.

femi

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36)

Very good point Ivana.

There are some Albanian sites, including one run by RTK where people comment but they are conducted in Albanian language, and 10X the power of the Avogdro number pro independent.
(so not very interesting site after all).

But you are right I have thought so many times about it myself, and one day I need to stop wasting my time, because there are many smarter things that I got to do, but somehow I have got hooked into this habit that I simply cannot stop.

tesla

pre 16 godina

I am tempted to use the words "mark my words" but that has already been abused by our Albanian countrymen to the point of comedy.

In the end, I predict VS entering Kosovo to not only secure ALL of the borders (1244), but all of the Serb settlements as well, where Serbs form a population of a dozen or so.

This my friends will give final meaning to the word "de facto." A word which is abused to much here.

In other spheres, this reality is expressed by the terms "check mate," or "when the fat lady sings."

Only when Serbs and Albanians guard their own people, will there be true peace. This will achieve a multi-ethnic Serbia for all. Also, no Albanian will be able to use the excuse of potential Serbian military oppression when a new security arrangement is devised.

Personally, if I lived in Kosovo, I would have no desire at all to live with Albanians but would be willing to share the province.

KS

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36)

Ivana, the people who are PRO-INDEPENDENCE are not necessarily Albanians. I for one am ethnically Bosnian (some Albanian). And there are some commenters here who are internationals. Also to a Serb anyone who has an opinion seems to be "insulting the Serbs".

My "general observation" is that you Serbs got cocky during Greater Serbia so you believe that you right, that you are SUPERIOR. Look around, it's out of your hands. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova, Macedonia...all are gone, you are going to learn to treat everyone equally because you're not hotshots and you don't hold much power.
If you want to be in charge, than maybe the EU isn't such a good place.

Niko

pre 16 godina

[quote]Taking the Serbian side now, I do hope KFOR can cope with any instability more efficiency than the last time. Last time in 2004, Serbs were attacked for no reason by Albanian mobs (Peter Sudyka, 15 January 2008 15:34) [/quote]
If you check the facts, the violence in 2004 started after 10 Albanians (2 of them 8 years old kids) were lynched by Serbian mobs. Maybe for you and me who live thousands of miles away this is "no reason", but for the locals with fresh memories from ethnic cleasing of 1999 that was a very good reason.
I don't support violence from neither side, but let's not forget the facts.

Erhan

pre 16 godina

"Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance. "

I give it respect. It does OK with not limiting speech. Although, that is an OK. Although, at times it "edits" views that make Serbia look bad or shall I say orthodox extremism (my post was edited on a comment about this).

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Nico

I did read something about this indeed. There was also a drive-by shooting of a Serb. This then caused riots in Kosovo, which then caused attacks on Albanians in Blegrade and the rest of Serbia. It is what is called a symbolic attack, it then spurred Albanians and Serbs to act, that is how fragile the situation was, and probably still is. This is why KFOR needs to be ever-vigilant, because the level of hatred is still high and the risk of open conflict equally as high, which is why the Serbian army said it is offering help if KFOR would be unable to handle possible attacks on the Serbian population Kosovo, I doubt they actually mean sending in their ground and air forces to deal with paramilitaries.

Jovan z

pre 16 godina

Is it Bubalo or Budalo because to the people trying to take Kosmet it looks like the latter.It seems that this type of rhetoric is meant to show NATO/UN that Srbija will pursue peace to the very last possible moment but if cleansing ops start up I really do not see how Beograd would stand by.Peace should prevail but any army must practice contingency plans.

Niko

pre 16 godina

Peter,
I agree with you that the situation is very fragile. After all Kosovo is the powder keg of the Balkans. In my opinion, armies should speak last, not first. K-Albanians will not trust the good will of the Serbian Army to just protect Kosovo Serbs. You can call them paranoid, but their experiences speak otherwise. Last time, such protection let some 10 000 dead Kosovar Albanians and 120 000 houses burned to stop KLA's insurgency. KLA had some 25 000 members at it's peak. So, either each KLA member owned 6 houses, or the Serbian Army overdid it with the protection.
Sometimes, goodwilling statements do more harm that good.
Best regards

calpirinha

pre 16 godina

to ivana:
i like to surf often in B92 site and I find it preatty democratic. But belive me that there is a great deal of tolerance among us Albanians. Comments on the forum are not an evidence of tolerance or lack of tolerance. Your name is very dear to me since I am going to marry Ivana soon in Belgrade. Its such a beautiful thing to marry her.:)))

laki NY

pre 16 godina

bmrusila:
"You know what, I prefer us to be rather guilty than to be victims once again. "

You’v been guilty as charged all the time, it's sad your nationalistic convictions driven by religious zealously, wont let you see it.
I guess executing 8000 civilian in Srebrenica is not enough for you!
Attempting to ethnically cleaning Kosova out of its Albanian population by expulsions of 1 million Albanians is not enough for you?

miri

pre 16 godina

To brumsila "Why don't we just abolish the Army and let world's vagrants to dismember our country"

Actually that would be a very good idea. Your army is useless anyway now days, is just a black hole that sucks all the funds that could otherwise would be used to improve poor people's lives.

Olf

pre 16 godina

Serbian army even if asked to come will not come. Parts of Kosova popalated with Serbs are described by local Serbs as Little Columbia. So, I dont shink that they are serious but they are just sending this kind of messages since because of the elections.

F.S.

pre 16 godina

this really is ridiculous, this article really made me laugh a lot. I mean, haw can Serbia axpect that one day KFOR will ask for help, especially to attack Kosovo???

Afrim Hoxha

pre 16 godina

This shows how funny serb politicians are.
It also shows that the serb military will only do something if it is allowed by KFOR, otherwise they wont even move one inch without KFOR allowing it. It shows that KFOR is in charge.

Niko

pre 16 godina

[quote]Taking the Serbian side now, I do hope KFOR can cope with any instability more efficiency than the last time. Last time in 2004, Serbs were attacked for no reason by Albanian mobs (Peter Sudyka, 15 January 2008 15:34) [/quote]
If you check the facts, the violence in 2004 started after 10 Albanians (2 of them 8 years old kids) were lynched by Serbian mobs. Maybe for you and me who live thousands of miles away this is "no reason", but for the locals with fresh memories from ethnic cleasing of 1999 that was a very good reason.
I don't support violence from neither side, but let's not forget the facts.

KS

pre 16 godina

Serbian "Army" has become useless, maybe Tadic should rethink NATO and send this "army" to Iraq and make some money as Black Water Corp.

Clean Cut

pre 16 godina

"Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36) "


- No Ivana, there is no such website just yest. Sorry, we Albanians have been busy surviving wars and persecutions and also gaining independence for Kosova, but I am sure that very soon your wishes will be fulfilled.

KS

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36)

Ivana, the people who are PRO-INDEPENDENCE are not necessarily Albanians. I for one am ethnically Bosnian (some Albanian). And there are some commenters here who are internationals. Also to a Serb anyone who has an opinion seems to be "insulting the Serbs".

My "general observation" is that you Serbs got cocky during Greater Serbia so you believe that you right, that you are SUPERIOR. Look around, it's out of your hands. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova, Macedonia...all are gone, you are going to learn to treat everyone equally because you're not hotshots and you don't hold much power.
If you want to be in charge, than maybe the EU isn't such a good place.

bmrusila

pre 16 godina

Mr Sutanovac I have to ask you back what is the purpose of having army if not to defend its people. Why don't we just abolish the Army and let world's vagrants to dismember our country. I just hope that our Army is ready to react even without KFOR premission if the life of Serbs were seriously jeopardized. Lets believe that this is only pre-election rhethoric. I just cannot believe that you trust KFOR or NATO for that matter who failed in every mission. For God's sake take just a statement of that Kenyan NATO trooper in Bosnia who said "My country, Kenya, had no special interest in Srebrenica that I would have defended there," Kingori said". Mr Sutanovac, are you going to let this kind of soldiers or officers to decide over Serbian lives? You know what, I prefer us to be rather guilty than to be victims once again. Shame on you if you betry our people in Kosovo and withhold defence.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Taking the Serbian side now, I do hope KFOR can cope with any instability more efficiency than the last time. Last time in 2004, Serbs were attacked for no reason by Albanian mobs (yes yes, Serbs did the same to Albanians, Macedonians did the same to Albanians, blah blah blah) and churches, hundreds of years old were desecrated and sometimes completely demolished. KFOR must be ready to crack down hard on anyone threatening instability in the region (those those destroy priceless religious and cultural artifacts or threaten human life), be they Serbs or Albanians, because as things stand, their track record is not particularly impressive thus far.

johny

pre 16 godina

brmsula said:"I just hope that our Army is ready to react even without KFOR premission if the life of Serbs were seriously jeopardized."

That would break 1244 and international law. How can you be the most ardent defender of international law and then break it intentionally. There also other Serbs here that advocate that if the EU mission enters Kosova/o then the Serbia army should enter Kosova/o even though resolution 1244 prevents it and is against international law. Then as an Albanian this plays very well with us. Serbia disregarded all the international laws in the 90's and all international norms. So it is only logical for the international community and us Albanians to disregard any claim by the Serbian side about international law, just as brmsula and the other Serbs claim in this site.


P.S For any Serbs here who wants to go on an Albanian website and freely talk about Kosova/o or whatever they want they can go to Albanian.com I assure you you posts will not disappear like they do here on B92 sometimes. You can bash Albanians all you want there and say whatever you want. However just expect to be bashed back if you decide to go that way. The politics section is open for everyone in that website.
I hope that answers your question Ivana.

Srboslav

pre 16 godina

As long as the albanians don't attack the serbs in northern Kosovo or are trying to expell them too, just as in southern Kosovo there is no need for Serbian Army to enter Kosovo. But I am scared that the Albanians in southern kosovo will not peacefully tolerate that the north Kosovo becomes independent from the south it they wish to separete from Serbia

ZK UK

pre 16 godina

No need to get emotional guys. Of course the Serbian army will protect the Serbian people.

Try reading between the lines. 1244 specifies no Serbian force in Kosovo unless invited and 1244 also indicates no EU force unless approved. He is just demonstrating at this stage that Serbia is abiding by the resolution.

However, if the EU force attempts to slip into Kosovo through the back door then perhaps Serbia can also find a legal means to have its troops enter Kosovo.

Ivana

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.

Igor

pre 16 godina

Remember when KFOR asked for help to control the buffer zone, because they couldnt control the crime and terrorists there. Then they finally let them move into the buffer zone. KFOR will not know what to do with the terrorists and VS will know exactly, because they dealt with those kinda of people for a very long time.

femi

pre 16 godina

Just a general inquiry for the Kosovar Albanian's posting on B92. You speak freely of your dislike and almost hatred-like feelings toward Serbia and Serbians on a Serbian-run website. Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance.

Just a general observation.
(Ivana, 15 January 2008 15:36)

Very good point Ivana.

There are some Albanian sites, including one run by RTK where people comment but they are conducted in Albanian language, and 10X the power of the Avogdro number pro independent.
(so not very interesting site after all).

But you are right I have thought so many times about it myself, and one day I need to stop wasting my time, because there are many smarter things that I got to do, but somehow I have got hooked into this habit that I simply cannot stop.

Jovan

pre 16 godina

the mere fact that the Albanians here do not understand that it could indeed happen that KFOR asks for assistance shows how naive some of their approaches are.

after the umpteenths time of delay and postponement, the Albanians will realize that they are being duped. and then, we will see whether they are smart enough to accept broad autonomy in order to get more than under the plans of NATO or to be more precise the US...

yes, then we will see whether tey are smart enough...or whether they resort to violence. and in that case, Serbia is ready and prepared. and highly motivated.

but let´s all hope that won´t be necessary at all.

Zoran

pre 16 godina

Diplomacy without the threat of force is just a lot of hot air. Serbia does not need a "legal" basis to enter Kosovo, it already has one, Kosovo is Serbian territory and the VS has all the right in the world to protect Serbs and THEIR land. The current pro-West government is on shaky grounds and weak, defeatist statements like this will help bring in a new government; keep it up guys!

Erhan

pre 16 godina

"Is there a similar such Albanian website where Serbs post freely on their hostile opinions of Kosovo independence? I think this says a lot about tolerance. "

I give it respect. It does OK with not limiting speech. Although, that is an OK. Although, at times it "edits" views that make Serbia look bad or shall I say orthodox extremism (my post was edited on a comment about this).

Unknown Comic

pre 16 godina

What a bunch of babies if the Serbian came back to Kosovo those who are talking all this non sense would head for the border like last time. If KFOR ask for assistance those making all these comments will be quite and mind your own business because they will jointly patrol with KFOR so you attack the Serb Forces you attack KFOR so there. Have a nice day.

GSP

pre 16 godina

Based on the comments from the albanian camp - it's obvious that THEY are the issue.

Srboslav - I am too as they (KFOR) cannot be trusted - particularly hiding behind the proven corrupt UNMIK.

Delije

pre 16 godina

Damn Miri the VS is useless, then why so scared to let them in and protect their people and cultrul sites. The black hole you talk about is revamped and similar to more modern armys. The real black hole (money pit) is Kosovo. Well at least for the last 8 years. Dont worry about the VS they are more than capable of handling the KLA or the ANA in any terrorist attack. Worry about your corrupt KPS that cant even solve one case.

Anthony

pre 16 godina

The Voska Srbija is legally able to and morally compelled to act to protect its own people. Serving a two year tour with US KFOR I am sure to say that the cooperation between the VS and MNTF-E is relatively good. I do not believe for one minute that if the 78th Serbian Mech Infantry parked in downtown Gnjilane to protect what we Americans have jokingly called the Serb-erbs (suburbs surrong Gnjilane), no shots would be fire by Americans or Serbs at each other.

The Serbian army and military forces are allowed into Kos-Met to protect Serbs, especially patrimonial sites.

I do have a fear that if the Serb Army did not react during March 2004, I can not see very many scenarios where they would.

One would be if there was an insurgent invasion of Serb triangle in the North by KLA terrorists; or they would Army and support local Serbs in defense of their homes and property.

I could also see such intervention if there are serious threats posed to places like Decani, Gracanica, or other sites. The only reason I believe that they would react now, even though they did not when 200 other Churches were razed to the ground, are the ongoing discussions on when KPS would take over the protection of these "fixed sites" from the Italians, or the Swedes respectfully.

Jack

pre 16 godina

Niko, I'm sure I wont be the only person to respond to your post.

"the violence in 2004 started after 10 Albanians (2 of them 8 years old kids) were lynched by Serbian mobs."

Please provide me with a link to an UNMIK report or article from a reputable news source which confirms this story about lynchings. As far as I and the many other foreigners which post here are concerned, the 2004 pogrom was initially whipped up by the Albanian language papers in Pristina printing hysteric false reports about Serbs chasing Albanian children into the Ibar.

If any other foreigner (not a member of a former yugoslav state) has any knowledge of this please add your own post.

Peter Sudyka

pre 16 godina

Nico

I did read something about this indeed. There was also a drive-by shooting of a Serb. This then caused riots in Kosovo, which then caused attacks on Albanians in Blegrade and the rest of Serbia. It is what is called a symbolic attack, it then spurred Albanians and Serbs to act, that is how fragile the situation was, and probably still is. This is why KFOR needs to be ever-vigilant, because the level of hatred is still high and the risk of open conflict equally as high, which is why the Serbian army said it is offering help if KFOR would be unable to handle possible attacks on the Serbian population Kosovo, I doubt they actually mean sending in their ground and air forces to deal with paramilitaries.

Jovan z

pre 16 godina

Is it Bubalo or Budalo because to the people trying to take Kosmet it looks like the latter.It seems that this type of rhetoric is meant to show NATO/UN that Srbija will pursue peace to the very last possible moment but if cleansing ops start up I really do not see how Beograd would stand by.Peace should prevail but any army must practice contingency plans.

Niko

pre 16 godina

Peter,
I agree with you that the situation is very fragile. After all Kosovo is the powder keg of the Balkans. In my opinion, armies should speak last, not first. K-Albanians will not trust the good will of the Serbian Army to just protect Kosovo Serbs. You can call them paranoid, but their experiences speak otherwise. Last time, such protection let some 10 000 dead Kosovar Albanians and 120 000 houses burned to stop KLA's insurgency. KLA had some 25 000 members at it's peak. So, either each KLA member owned 6 houses, or the Serbian Army overdid it with the protection.
Sometimes, goodwilling statements do more harm that good.
Best regards

tesla

pre 16 godina

I am tempted to use the words "mark my words" but that has already been abused by our Albanian countrymen to the point of comedy.

In the end, I predict VS entering Kosovo to not only secure ALL of the borders (1244), but all of the Serb settlements as well, where Serbs form a population of a dozen or so.

This my friends will give final meaning to the word "de facto." A word which is abused to much here.

In other spheres, this reality is expressed by the terms "check mate," or "when the fat lady sings."

Only when Serbs and Albanians guard their own people, will there be true peace. This will achieve a multi-ethnic Serbia for all. Also, no Albanian will be able to use the excuse of potential Serbian military oppression when a new security arrangement is devised.

Personally, if I lived in Kosovo, I would have no desire at all to live with Albanians but would be willing to share the province.

calpirinha

pre 16 godina

to ivana:
i like to surf often in B92 site and I find it preatty democratic. But belive me that there is a great deal of tolerance among us Albanians. Comments on the forum are not an evidence of tolerance or lack of tolerance. Your name is very dear to me since I am going to marry Ivana soon in Belgrade. Its such a beautiful thing to marry her.:)))