Think about what you are saying, because I think that you don't realize how similair this is to Kosovo. NATO is currently occupying Kosovo which has an Albanian majority, Russia is currently occupying Transdniestr which has a Slavic majority. Both have been living there for hundreds of years, both are striving for independence, both had to fight for it. What's the difference between the two? Can you name it?
One has UN administration, the other has Russian administration. If the West can recognize Kosovo, Russian can recognize Transdniestr, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia.
It sounds more like Russia is no longer saying they will block the independence of Kosovo but now the UN must negotiate the terms under which they may do so.
Statement that only court can say what is in resolution 1244 is pushing things little bit too far.
What I heard about UN charter - UN can not dismember territories of its member states - without their consent. I am not a lawyer
but you don't need to be the lawyer to understand such statement and how it reflects on Kosovo in Serbia case.
To see the basckground of what really happened in 1999 - you should know following facts:
Eve-Ann Prentice, a British journalist who covered the Kosovo war for the Guardian and the London Times, testified during Slobodan Milosevic's trial in the Hague. She said that rather than being driven out by the Serbs, "The KLA told ethnic Albanian civilians that it was their patriotic duty to leave because the world was watching. This was their one big opportunity to make Kosovo part of Albania eventually, that NATO was there, ready to come in, and that anybody who failed to join the exodus was not supporting the Albanian cause."
Alice Mahon, a British MP and a member of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Brussels, also testified during Milosevic's trial. She said, "The KLA definitely encouraged the exodus."
Muharem Ibraj and Saban Fazliu, two ethnic Albanian witnesses from Kosovo who testified in Milosevic's trial, said Serbian security forces encouraged civilians to remain in their homes, and that it was the KLA who made the civilian population leave the province.
Fazliu testified that the KLA would kill anybody who disobeyed its orders. He said, "The order was to leave Kosovo in later stages, to go to Albania, Macedonia, so that the world could see for themselves that the Albanians are leaving because of the harm caused by the Serbs. This was the aim. This was the KLA order."
During the war, the London Times reported how "KLA 'minders' ensured that all refugees peddled the same line when speaking to Western journalists" by threatening the refugee's loved ones. Unfortunately, that report was one of the few honest pieces of journalism to come out of Kosovo.
Goran Stojcik, a Macedonian ambulance driver who worked in the refugee camps during the war, testified under oath at the Hague Tribunal that he had eye-witnessed Western news crews stage-managing fake news footage in the refugee camps. He said, "CNN was the most prominent in stage managing things that were to be filmed."
He gave examples of news crews coaching refugees on how to act in front of the cameras. In one example, he said a news crew threw a refugee child into the mud to make him cry for the camera.
In case of Kosovo - there was a whole set of manipulations by Western media. I remember watching one CNN report myself - where they were showing exodus in Kosovo, there was a boy standing there - and as the reporter approached him and as boy realized he was filmed - he suddenly "burst into tears"...
To anyone who is really interested in what happened in 1999 in Kosovo ( without ideological distortions of reality) I suggest reading whole
list of manipulations - which could be relatively easy to confirm as for accuracy - at:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59675
As for Eve-Ann Prentice, a British journalist - and her statement given in the Court in Hague - I saw it myself on TV in January 2006.
Interesting comments.I am reading everynight.I have learn so much thanks to everyone comments specialy when link is attached.A bit tolerance would elp.Politics never end.
B92 is doing a great job.
I forgot I have to go to work morning.
UNSC 1244 IS binding, that´s why they are so desperately trying to find a way to circumvent it... without much success as we can see.
all those "experts" here, who are just repeating the nonsense they have read in koha or zeri..
fact is: the K-albanians are being duped. and either they don´t see it yet - or they don´t dare to speak up, what would be understandable too, given that their "friends" are the USA and UK...not really very reliable partners... as the Kurds in Iraq will certainly approve.
just go for it, declare whatever you want... it won´t change a lot.
the Serbian government have answered your request and stand fully united behind the stance that Serbia and its electorate see only a Sovereign Serbia in the EU and not a partitioned one. Read;
Cabinet adopts Kosovo action plan
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=14&nav_id=46924
I am certain that Tadic will vocalise this unified position and expect some clarification by the 28th Jan. from the EU who have created this dilemma during the Presidential elections.
Lets see an undivided EU response on the 28th January ? In many ways a divided Eu which puts off because the "few" EU can't get their way is just as good for Serbia with this Russian backing!
Bruce,
am I not entitled to my political opinion ? Since when have I said anything that goes against British Sovereignity ? My political opion is my political opinion - you clearly have a strange interpretation of "democracy" and "freedom of speech" if you believe I am anti-British because of my perspective! I have always said I am a Britsih-Serb. Would you rather I acted as a Serbian Albanian and set about a terrorist secessionist campaign denied my birth in Serbia, its language, institutions and worked against it in all ways possible even militarily?
Thankfully (in great part to my parents who taught me to be respectful of the state I am in) I lead a fully integrated life in the UK, respect all its norms and Laws and confrom to the host society. Even in spite of its bombardment and illegal war that it waged on my ethnic homeland but you wont see me strap a suicide bomb and board a bus or tube train!
The less said of your views over laws that have been passed. Imagine yourself before a judge stating your defence over a new law that has been ratified by Parliment or even an international body that set boundaries for state Sovereignity that all agreed to be bound by;
Your Honour, I committed the "alleged" crime but "Until a law has been interpretted by a court no one can truly say what is legal and illegal"
- really do you think this would be a good defence ?????
FYI Bruce the EU "few" is just the UK, thus far who have openly gone on record to state they "may" recognise an illegal UDI - No mention from Germany or France in open and on the record unless you count whispers from some anonimous so called "diplomat" (sworn to secrecy so please don't say I said it) and then the next day retorts from governmental spokesperson that this is not governmental viewpoint.
I suggest you look into the third grouping within the EU centered on the Dutch position who were spearheading partition within partition last summer prior to the talks and have not changed their stance after them!
- EU is united only in its indecisiveness and I very much doubt they will send a mission on the 28th Jan as they stated and are even less likely to now that Serbia is rightly vocalising its opposition to it!
I must react on what you said. I don't see how did you see any hatred that Princip UK foster for the EU. If Princip does not agree on certain standards in regard to the EU policy it does not mean animosity. Besides, speaking of hatred for the country the one live in, you must address to Albanians since they keep the monopoly on that bizzare innovation. It might be so that they even patent it.
Furthermore Bruce, you continue with some predictions of poster's political views and their political symphatizers. Have you ever heard of privacy? And please if the fact that Princip lives in the UK bothers you that much why don't you then turn to Albanian posters that live somwhere abroad and fully support independence even though Kosovo is the poorest region in the Europe and in the last 9 years (with no serbian control)they destroyed everything that used to be decent overthere. Please don't try any longer to discredit the opinion of Serbs living abroad and use their whereabouts as any argument to discredit them from conversation and debating. Besides,all Serbs living abroad are Serbia's citizens and have right to vote.
I have never read more arrogant statement coming from a diplomat, if this Rogozin calls himself a diplomat.
Essentially what he says doesn't have a slightest importance in the field. This is an arrogant and insulting statement similar to those used to depict Chechnya before leveling Grozny to the ground. Well Mr. Rogozin, Kosova is not Chechnya and you are not talking to Duma. You are calling Kosova a laboratory of drugs. Since you are in this "technical" mood, why don't you then call Serbia a factory of war criminals?
At the end, your disgusting rhetoric proves one and only one thing, that Russia can do nothing about Kosova's independence. When you start yelling means you finally figured out that no one is listening.
Sounds more like Russia is crying for being left out when UDI happands. Both the US and EU will ignore Russian demend. When Germany, UK, France and Italy recognizes Kosovo's Independence, what exactly will Russia then do?
I don't personally agree with unilateral independent, and think partition is the only possible solution.
However, people keep talking about the illegality of the actions. Until a law has been interpretted by a court no one can truly say what is legal and illegal. It is for judges to decide that (I assume in this case the ICJ). International law has numerous conflicting parts, and you can make quite coherent legal arguments either way on this issue (for instance the right to self determination of the Kosovan people, and the abuse of power by the Serbian government in the 90s). On the other side it is possible to claim 1244 keeps sovereignty with Serbia (however this is only mentioned in the preamble, which is not usually legally binding). That is why these constant cries of "illegal" are so misleading, because you as an individual do not have the power to interpret laws. You would not be able to proclaim decisevely how laws in your own country were interpreted, so why should you be able to proclaim so with international law.
Also proclaiming it to be the EU 'few' is also false. The countries include the UK, Germany, France, Sweden, Italy etc, and make up the vast majority of the EU population. Maybe Spain, Greece and Cyprus have misgivings, but they represent a minority of nations and a minority of the EU population, and so it is they who are the few.
Again Prncip, your hatred for the EU, and I assume the UK as well is bizarre given you live there. Are you being held in the UK against your will, becaue given all your statements, I can see no reason why you would want to stay there. Also you seem to be wishing the Radicals on Serbia. I would have no problem with this if you were actually going to have to live under their government, but you won't will you. This is why I prefer the UK system where you have to be resident to vote, as why should you vote for a government when you will not have to suffer the consequences of your choice.
"Serbia may be heading for a change of the regime, the Russian diplomat said, and if this happens, "the ones to be held responsible for this will be Americans and those Western European countries which, in cooperation with them, are strangling Serbia." "
- absolutely right. It is the EU "few" doing the US bidding who are spearheading this so called EU "mission".
This has placed Tadic in the dilemma by his EU "firends" which the Serbian electorate need clarification form the EU if they truly want Serbia as a whole in the EU or do they want to create an illegal entity as the US insist on Serbian Soverign territory!
Tadic needs to strongly assure the Serbian electorate that Kosovo will never be substituted for EU admission as the EU "few" seem to think. Without a strong message rebuffing the EU mission from Tadic he will weaken his stance given this EU dillema put forth by the EU itself!
Russia will support the Serbian government at the UNSC, but the Serbian government must represent the will of the Serbian people. For this, the Serbian government needs a clear, unified stance. At the moment, there is none, and this is a major weakness.
Excellent analysis. I am happy that Russia continue with backing by all means. That is what we really need in this very moment, Russia at our side. I guess the IC is crying for Yeltsin's Russia :)))))
"...a secessionist movement that has incurred damages to the state where they live must pay full compensation to it's victims", the Russian NATO ambassador explained.
A voice of reason, of logic, of wisdom and truth! Who can deny? The "West's" unequivocal support of Albanian terrorism and its wilful ignorance of consequences to come signals it's final spiritual bankruptcy!
And why do Albanians feel they're owed something, while simultaneously denying it to others?
To see what kind of civilizational values Rogozin defends, just go to his website or to the English Wikipedia page about him, and you will see Rogozin with the war criminal Ratko Mladic in Sarajevo in 1996!
What Russia really wants is to prevent an ordely independence of Kosovo AND at the same time expand Russian territory annexing Transdnistria (that as a second Kaliningrad would have a tremendous strategic value — imagine in the long term to have nuclear missiles between NATO-EU member Romania and Western-oriented Ukraine appointed to all Southeastern Europe), Abkhazia (expanding Russia dominance over the Black Sea) and South Ossetia (providing Russia with a territory south of the Caucasus that can be used in future military-strategic operations in Armenia and USA-aligned Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia).
These breakaway territories are even more strategic than Serbia and Bosnia’s Republika Srpska, since both are geographically far away from Russia and Bulgaria and Greece are on the NATO-EU orbit, too.
who was the one who was time and again boasting that Russia would bend down before "the one and only global superpower" in the world?
well, my dear albanian friends, I hope the serbian side is not completely corrupt, in order to stay united against an illegal and aggressive policy towards Serbia.
thanks for clearing this up, Mr. Rogozin. Perhaps some albanian kids will once again write "who is that anyway"...
:)
I cannot beleive a russian Ambasador to NATO to say that Kosovars, which were vitims of oppression, murder, mayhem to compensate Serbia. I would like to ask Russian Ambasador since when this type of International law took effect forthe victims to pay criminals ofr the damage they have caused to the victim? This is beyound beleife.
who was the one who was time and again boasting that Russia would bend down before "the one and only global superpower" in the world?
well, my dear albanian friends, I hope the serbian side is not completely corrupt, in order to stay united against an illegal and aggressive policy towards Serbia.
thanks for clearing this up, Mr. Rogozin. Perhaps some albanian kids will once again write "who is that anyway"...
:)
"...a secessionist movement that has incurred damages to the state where they live must pay full compensation to it's victims", the Russian NATO ambassador explained.
A voice of reason, of logic, of wisdom and truth! Who can deny? The "West's" unequivocal support of Albanian terrorism and its wilful ignorance of consequences to come signals it's final spiritual bankruptcy!
And why do Albanians feel they're owed something, while simultaneously denying it to others?
Excellent analysis. I am happy that Russia continue with backing by all means. That is what we really need in this very moment, Russia at our side. I guess the IC is crying for Yeltsin's Russia :)))))
"Serbia may be heading for a change of the regime, the Russian diplomat said, and if this happens, "the ones to be held responsible for this will be Americans and those Western European countries which, in cooperation with them, are strangling Serbia." "
- absolutely right. It is the EU "few" doing the US bidding who are spearheading this so called EU "mission".
This has placed Tadic in the dilemma by his EU "firends" which the Serbian electorate need clarification form the EU if they truly want Serbia as a whole in the EU or do they want to create an illegal entity as the US insist on Serbian Soverign territory!
Tadic needs to strongly assure the Serbian electorate that Kosovo will never be substituted for EU admission as the EU "few" seem to think. Without a strong message rebuffing the EU mission from Tadic he will weaken his stance given this EU dillema put forth by the EU itself!
I cannot beleive a russian Ambasador to NATO to say that Kosovars, which were vitims of oppression, murder, mayhem to compensate Serbia. I would like to ask Russian Ambasador since when this type of International law took effect forthe victims to pay criminals ofr the damage they have caused to the victim? This is beyound beleife.
I must react on what you said. I don't see how did you see any hatred that Princip UK foster for the EU. If Princip does not agree on certain standards in regard to the EU policy it does not mean animosity. Besides, speaking of hatred for the country the one live in, you must address to Albanians since they keep the monopoly on that bizzare innovation. It might be so that they even patent it.
Furthermore Bruce, you continue with some predictions of poster's political views and their political symphatizers. Have you ever heard of privacy? And please if the fact that Princip lives in the UK bothers you that much why don't you then turn to Albanian posters that live somwhere abroad and fully support independence even though Kosovo is the poorest region in the Europe and in the last 9 years (with no serbian control)they destroyed everything that used to be decent overthere. Please don't try any longer to discredit the opinion of Serbs living abroad and use their whereabouts as any argument to discredit them from conversation and debating. Besides,all Serbs living abroad are Serbia's citizens and have right to vote.
UNSC 1244 IS binding, that´s why they are so desperately trying to find a way to circumvent it... without much success as we can see.
all those "experts" here, who are just repeating the nonsense they have read in koha or zeri..
fact is: the K-albanians are being duped. and either they don´t see it yet - or they don´t dare to speak up, what would be understandable too, given that their "friends" are the USA and UK...not really very reliable partners... as the Kurds in Iraq will certainly approve.
just go for it, declare whatever you want... it won´t change a lot.
the Serbian government have answered your request and stand fully united behind the stance that Serbia and its electorate see only a Sovereign Serbia in the EU and not a partitioned one. Read;
Cabinet adopts Kosovo action plan
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=14&nav_id=46924
I am certain that Tadic will vocalise this unified position and expect some clarification by the 28th Jan. from the EU who have created this dilemma during the Presidential elections.
Lets see an undivided EU response on the 28th January ? In many ways a divided Eu which puts off because the "few" EU can't get their way is just as good for Serbia with this Russian backing!
Bruce,
am I not entitled to my political opinion ? Since when have I said anything that goes against British Sovereignity ? My political opion is my political opinion - you clearly have a strange interpretation of "democracy" and "freedom of speech" if you believe I am anti-British because of my perspective! I have always said I am a Britsih-Serb. Would you rather I acted as a Serbian Albanian and set about a terrorist secessionist campaign denied my birth in Serbia, its language, institutions and worked against it in all ways possible even militarily?
Thankfully (in great part to my parents who taught me to be respectful of the state I am in) I lead a fully integrated life in the UK, respect all its norms and Laws and confrom to the host society. Even in spite of its bombardment and illegal war that it waged on my ethnic homeland but you wont see me strap a suicide bomb and board a bus or tube train!
The less said of your views over laws that have been passed. Imagine yourself before a judge stating your defence over a new law that has been ratified by Parliment or even an international body that set boundaries for state Sovereignity that all agreed to be bound by;
Your Honour, I committed the "alleged" crime but "Until a law has been interpretted by a court no one can truly say what is legal and illegal"
- really do you think this would be a good defence ?????
FYI Bruce the EU "few" is just the UK, thus far who have openly gone on record to state they "may" recognise an illegal UDI - No mention from Germany or France in open and on the record unless you count whispers from some anonimous so called "diplomat" (sworn to secrecy so please don't say I said it) and then the next day retorts from governmental spokesperson that this is not governmental viewpoint.
I suggest you look into the third grouping within the EU centered on the Dutch position who were spearheading partition within partition last summer prior to the talks and have not changed their stance after them!
- EU is united only in its indecisiveness and I very much doubt they will send a mission on the 28th Jan as they stated and are even less likely to now that Serbia is rightly vocalising its opposition to it!
I have never read more arrogant statement coming from a diplomat, if this Rogozin calls himself a diplomat.
Essentially what he says doesn't have a slightest importance in the field. This is an arrogant and insulting statement similar to those used to depict Chechnya before leveling Grozny to the ground. Well Mr. Rogozin, Kosova is not Chechnya and you are not talking to Duma. You are calling Kosova a laboratory of drugs. Since you are in this "technical" mood, why don't you then call Serbia a factory of war criminals?
At the end, your disgusting rhetoric proves one and only one thing, that Russia can do nothing about Kosova's independence. When you start yelling means you finally figured out that no one is listening.
I don't personally agree with unilateral independent, and think partition is the only possible solution.
However, people keep talking about the illegality of the actions. Until a law has been interpretted by a court no one can truly say what is legal and illegal. It is for judges to decide that (I assume in this case the ICJ). International law has numerous conflicting parts, and you can make quite coherent legal arguments either way on this issue (for instance the right to self determination of the Kosovan people, and the abuse of power by the Serbian government in the 90s). On the other side it is possible to claim 1244 keeps sovereignty with Serbia (however this is only mentioned in the preamble, which is not usually legally binding). That is why these constant cries of "illegal" are so misleading, because you as an individual do not have the power to interpret laws. You would not be able to proclaim decisevely how laws in your own country were interpreted, so why should you be able to proclaim so with international law.
Also proclaiming it to be the EU 'few' is also false. The countries include the UK, Germany, France, Sweden, Italy etc, and make up the vast majority of the EU population. Maybe Spain, Greece and Cyprus have misgivings, but they represent a minority of nations and a minority of the EU population, and so it is they who are the few.
Again Prncip, your hatred for the EU, and I assume the UK as well is bizarre given you live there. Are you being held in the UK against your will, becaue given all your statements, I can see no reason why you would want to stay there. Also you seem to be wishing the Radicals on Serbia. I would have no problem with this if you were actually going to have to live under their government, but you won't will you. This is why I prefer the UK system where you have to be resident to vote, as why should you vote for a government when you will not have to suffer the consequences of your choice.
Statement that only court can say what is in resolution 1244 is pushing things little bit too far.
What I heard about UN charter - UN can not dismember territories of its member states - without their consent. I am not a lawyer
but you don't need to be the lawyer to understand such statement and how it reflects on Kosovo in Serbia case.
To see the basckground of what really happened in 1999 - you should know following facts:
Eve-Ann Prentice, a British journalist who covered the Kosovo war for the Guardian and the London Times, testified during Slobodan Milosevic's trial in the Hague. She said that rather than being driven out by the Serbs, "The KLA told ethnic Albanian civilians that it was their patriotic duty to leave because the world was watching. This was their one big opportunity to make Kosovo part of Albania eventually, that NATO was there, ready to come in, and that anybody who failed to join the exodus was not supporting the Albanian cause."
Alice Mahon, a British MP and a member of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Brussels, also testified during Milosevic's trial. She said, "The KLA definitely encouraged the exodus."
Muharem Ibraj and Saban Fazliu, two ethnic Albanian witnesses from Kosovo who testified in Milosevic's trial, said Serbian security forces encouraged civilians to remain in their homes, and that it was the KLA who made the civilian population leave the province.
Fazliu testified that the KLA would kill anybody who disobeyed its orders. He said, "The order was to leave Kosovo in later stages, to go to Albania, Macedonia, so that the world could see for themselves that the Albanians are leaving because of the harm caused by the Serbs. This was the aim. This was the KLA order."
During the war, the London Times reported how "KLA 'minders' ensured that all refugees peddled the same line when speaking to Western journalists" by threatening the refugee's loved ones. Unfortunately, that report was one of the few honest pieces of journalism to come out of Kosovo.
Goran Stojcik, a Macedonian ambulance driver who worked in the refugee camps during the war, testified under oath at the Hague Tribunal that he had eye-witnessed Western news crews stage-managing fake news footage in the refugee camps. He said, "CNN was the most prominent in stage managing things that were to be filmed."
He gave examples of news crews coaching refugees on how to act in front of the cameras. In one example, he said a news crew threw a refugee child into the mud to make him cry for the camera.
In case of Kosovo - there was a whole set of manipulations by Western media. I remember watching one CNN report myself - where they were showing exodus in Kosovo, there was a boy standing there - and as the reporter approached him and as boy realized he was filmed - he suddenly "burst into tears"...
To anyone who is really interested in what happened in 1999 in Kosovo ( without ideological distortions of reality) I suggest reading whole
list of manipulations - which could be relatively easy to confirm as for accuracy - at:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59675
As for Eve-Ann Prentice, a British journalist - and her statement given in the Court in Hague - I saw it myself on TV in January 2006.
To see what kind of civilizational values Rogozin defends, just go to his website or to the English Wikipedia page about him, and you will see Rogozin with the war criminal Ratko Mladic in Sarajevo in 1996!
What Russia really wants is to prevent an ordely independence of Kosovo AND at the same time expand Russian territory annexing Transdnistria (that as a second Kaliningrad would have a tremendous strategic value — imagine in the long term to have nuclear missiles between NATO-EU member Romania and Western-oriented Ukraine appointed to all Southeastern Europe), Abkhazia (expanding Russia dominance over the Black Sea) and South Ossetia (providing Russia with a territory south of the Caucasus that can be used in future military-strategic operations in Armenia and USA-aligned Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia).
These breakaway territories are even more strategic than Serbia and Bosnia’s Republika Srpska, since both are geographically far away from Russia and Bulgaria and Greece are on the NATO-EU orbit, too.
Sounds more like Russia is crying for being left out when UDI happands. Both the US and EU will ignore Russian demend. When Germany, UK, France and Italy recognizes Kosovo's Independence, what exactly will Russia then do?
Think about what you are saying, because I think that you don't realize how similair this is to Kosovo. NATO is currently occupying Kosovo which has an Albanian majority, Russia is currently occupying Transdniestr which has a Slavic majority. Both have been living there for hundreds of years, both are striving for independence, both had to fight for it. What's the difference between the two? Can you name it?
One has UN administration, the other has Russian administration. If the West can recognize Kosovo, Russian can recognize Transdniestr, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia.
Russia will support the Serbian government at the UNSC, but the Serbian government must represent the will of the Serbian people. For this, the Serbian government needs a clear, unified stance. At the moment, there is none, and this is a major weakness.
Interesting comments.I am reading everynight.I have learn so much thanks to everyone comments specialy when link is attached.A bit tolerance would elp.Politics never end.
B92 is doing a great job.
I forgot I have to go to work morning.
It sounds more like Russia is no longer saying they will block the independence of Kosovo but now the UN must negotiate the terms under which they may do so.
I cannot beleive a russian Ambasador to NATO to say that Kosovars, which were vitims of oppression, murder, mayhem to compensate Serbia. I would like to ask Russian Ambasador since when this type of International law took effect forthe victims to pay criminals ofr the damage they have caused to the victim? This is beyound beleife.
I have never read more arrogant statement coming from a diplomat, if this Rogozin calls himself a diplomat.
Essentially what he says doesn't have a slightest importance in the field. This is an arrogant and insulting statement similar to those used to depict Chechnya before leveling Grozny to the ground. Well Mr. Rogozin, Kosova is not Chechnya and you are not talking to Duma. You are calling Kosova a laboratory of drugs. Since you are in this "technical" mood, why don't you then call Serbia a factory of war criminals?
At the end, your disgusting rhetoric proves one and only one thing, that Russia can do nothing about Kosova's independence. When you start yelling means you finally figured out that no one is listening.
"...a secessionist movement that has incurred damages to the state where they live must pay full compensation to it's victims", the Russian NATO ambassador explained.
A voice of reason, of logic, of wisdom and truth! Who can deny? The "West's" unequivocal support of Albanian terrorism and its wilful ignorance of consequences to come signals it's final spiritual bankruptcy!
And why do Albanians feel they're owed something, while simultaneously denying it to others?
Sounds more like Russia is crying for being left out when UDI happands. Both the US and EU will ignore Russian demend. When Germany, UK, France and Italy recognizes Kosovo's Independence, what exactly will Russia then do?
I don't personally agree with unilateral independent, and think partition is the only possible solution.
However, people keep talking about the illegality of the actions. Until a law has been interpretted by a court no one can truly say what is legal and illegal. It is for judges to decide that (I assume in this case the ICJ). International law has numerous conflicting parts, and you can make quite coherent legal arguments either way on this issue (for instance the right to self determination of the Kosovan people, and the abuse of power by the Serbian government in the 90s). On the other side it is possible to claim 1244 keeps sovereignty with Serbia (however this is only mentioned in the preamble, which is not usually legally binding). That is why these constant cries of "illegal" are so misleading, because you as an individual do not have the power to interpret laws. You would not be able to proclaim decisevely how laws in your own country were interpreted, so why should you be able to proclaim so with international law.
Also proclaiming it to be the EU 'few' is also false. The countries include the UK, Germany, France, Sweden, Italy etc, and make up the vast majority of the EU population. Maybe Spain, Greece and Cyprus have misgivings, but they represent a minority of nations and a minority of the EU population, and so it is they who are the few.
Again Prncip, your hatred for the EU, and I assume the UK as well is bizarre given you live there. Are you being held in the UK against your will, becaue given all your statements, I can see no reason why you would want to stay there. Also you seem to be wishing the Radicals on Serbia. I would have no problem with this if you were actually going to have to live under their government, but you won't will you. This is why I prefer the UK system where you have to be resident to vote, as why should you vote for a government when you will not have to suffer the consequences of your choice.
who was the one who was time and again boasting that Russia would bend down before "the one and only global superpower" in the world?
well, my dear albanian friends, I hope the serbian side is not completely corrupt, in order to stay united against an illegal and aggressive policy towards Serbia.
thanks for clearing this up, Mr. Rogozin. Perhaps some albanian kids will once again write "who is that anyway"...
:)
"Serbia may be heading for a change of the regime, the Russian diplomat said, and if this happens, "the ones to be held responsible for this will be Americans and those Western European countries which, in cooperation with them, are strangling Serbia." "
- absolutely right. It is the EU "few" doing the US bidding who are spearheading this so called EU "mission".
This has placed Tadic in the dilemma by his EU "firends" which the Serbian electorate need clarification form the EU if they truly want Serbia as a whole in the EU or do they want to create an illegal entity as the US insist on Serbian Soverign territory!
Tadic needs to strongly assure the Serbian electorate that Kosovo will never be substituted for EU admission as the EU "few" seem to think. Without a strong message rebuffing the EU mission from Tadic he will weaken his stance given this EU dillema put forth by the EU itself!
Excellent analysis. I am happy that Russia continue with backing by all means. That is what we really need in this very moment, Russia at our side. I guess the IC is crying for Yeltsin's Russia :)))))
To see what kind of civilizational values Rogozin defends, just go to his website or to the English Wikipedia page about him, and you will see Rogozin with the war criminal Ratko Mladic in Sarajevo in 1996!
What Russia really wants is to prevent an ordely independence of Kosovo AND at the same time expand Russian territory annexing Transdnistria (that as a second Kaliningrad would have a tremendous strategic value — imagine in the long term to have nuclear missiles between NATO-EU member Romania and Western-oriented Ukraine appointed to all Southeastern Europe), Abkhazia (expanding Russia dominance over the Black Sea) and South Ossetia (providing Russia with a territory south of the Caucasus that can be used in future military-strategic operations in Armenia and USA-aligned Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georgia).
These breakaway territories are even more strategic than Serbia and Bosnia’s Republika Srpska, since both are geographically far away from Russia and Bulgaria and Greece are on the NATO-EU orbit, too.
Russia will support the Serbian government at the UNSC, but the Serbian government must represent the will of the Serbian people. For this, the Serbian government needs a clear, unified stance. At the moment, there is none, and this is a major weakness.
the Serbian government have answered your request and stand fully united behind the stance that Serbia and its electorate see only a Sovereign Serbia in the EU and not a partitioned one. Read;
Cabinet adopts Kosovo action plan
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=01&dd=14&nav_id=46924
I am certain that Tadic will vocalise this unified position and expect some clarification by the 28th Jan. from the EU who have created this dilemma during the Presidential elections.
Lets see an undivided EU response on the 28th January ? In many ways a divided Eu which puts off because the "few" EU can't get their way is just as good for Serbia with this Russian backing!
Bruce,
am I not entitled to my political opinion ? Since when have I said anything that goes against British Sovereignity ? My political opion is my political opinion - you clearly have a strange interpretation of "democracy" and "freedom of speech" if you believe I am anti-British because of my perspective! I have always said I am a Britsih-Serb. Would you rather I acted as a Serbian Albanian and set about a terrorist secessionist campaign denied my birth in Serbia, its language, institutions and worked against it in all ways possible even militarily?
Thankfully (in great part to my parents who taught me to be respectful of the state I am in) I lead a fully integrated life in the UK, respect all its norms and Laws and confrom to the host society. Even in spite of its bombardment and illegal war that it waged on my ethnic homeland but you wont see me strap a suicide bomb and board a bus or tube train!
The less said of your views over laws that have been passed. Imagine yourself before a judge stating your defence over a new law that has been ratified by Parliment or even an international body that set boundaries for state Sovereignity that all agreed to be bound by;
Your Honour, I committed the "alleged" crime but "Until a law has been interpretted by a court no one can truly say what is legal and illegal"
- really do you think this would be a good defence ?????
FYI Bruce the EU "few" is just the UK, thus far who have openly gone on record to state they "may" recognise an illegal UDI - No mention from Germany or France in open and on the record unless you count whispers from some anonimous so called "diplomat" (sworn to secrecy so please don't say I said it) and then the next day retorts from governmental spokesperson that this is not governmental viewpoint.
I suggest you look into the third grouping within the EU centered on the Dutch position who were spearheading partition within partition last summer prior to the talks and have not changed their stance after them!
- EU is united only in its indecisiveness and I very much doubt they will send a mission on the 28th Jan as they stated and are even less likely to now that Serbia is rightly vocalising its opposition to it!
I must react on what you said. I don't see how did you see any hatred that Princip UK foster for the EU. If Princip does not agree on certain standards in regard to the EU policy it does not mean animosity. Besides, speaking of hatred for the country the one live in, you must address to Albanians since they keep the monopoly on that bizzare innovation. It might be so that they even patent it.
Furthermore Bruce, you continue with some predictions of poster's political views and their political symphatizers. Have you ever heard of privacy? And please if the fact that Princip lives in the UK bothers you that much why don't you then turn to Albanian posters that live somwhere abroad and fully support independence even though Kosovo is the poorest region in the Europe and in the last 9 years (with no serbian control)they destroyed everything that used to be decent overthere. Please don't try any longer to discredit the opinion of Serbs living abroad and use their whereabouts as any argument to discredit them from conversation and debating. Besides,all Serbs living abroad are Serbia's citizens and have right to vote.
UNSC 1244 IS binding, that´s why they are so desperately trying to find a way to circumvent it... without much success as we can see.
all those "experts" here, who are just repeating the nonsense they have read in koha or zeri..
fact is: the K-albanians are being duped. and either they don´t see it yet - or they don´t dare to speak up, what would be understandable too, given that their "friends" are the USA and UK...not really very reliable partners... as the Kurds in Iraq will certainly approve.
just go for it, declare whatever you want... it won´t change a lot.
It sounds more like Russia is no longer saying they will block the independence of Kosovo but now the UN must negotiate the terms under which they may do so.
Interesting comments.I am reading everynight.I have learn so much thanks to everyone comments specialy when link is attached.A bit tolerance would elp.Politics never end.
B92 is doing a great job.
I forgot I have to go to work morning.
Statement that only court can say what is in resolution 1244 is pushing things little bit too far.
What I heard about UN charter - UN can not dismember territories of its member states - without their consent. I am not a lawyer
but you don't need to be the lawyer to understand such statement and how it reflects on Kosovo in Serbia case.
To see the basckground of what really happened in 1999 - you should know following facts:
Eve-Ann Prentice, a British journalist who covered the Kosovo war for the Guardian and the London Times, testified during Slobodan Milosevic's trial in the Hague. She said that rather than being driven out by the Serbs, "The KLA told ethnic Albanian civilians that it was their patriotic duty to leave because the world was watching. This was their one big opportunity to make Kosovo part of Albania eventually, that NATO was there, ready to come in, and that anybody who failed to join the exodus was not supporting the Albanian cause."
Alice Mahon, a British MP and a member of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Brussels, also testified during Milosevic's trial. She said, "The KLA definitely encouraged the exodus."
Muharem Ibraj and Saban Fazliu, two ethnic Albanian witnesses from Kosovo who testified in Milosevic's trial, said Serbian security forces encouraged civilians to remain in their homes, and that it was the KLA who made the civilian population leave the province.
Fazliu testified that the KLA would kill anybody who disobeyed its orders. He said, "The order was to leave Kosovo in later stages, to go to Albania, Macedonia, so that the world could see for themselves that the Albanians are leaving because of the harm caused by the Serbs. This was the aim. This was the KLA order."
During the war, the London Times reported how "KLA 'minders' ensured that all refugees peddled the same line when speaking to Western journalists" by threatening the refugee's loved ones. Unfortunately, that report was one of the few honest pieces of journalism to come out of Kosovo.
Goran Stojcik, a Macedonian ambulance driver who worked in the refugee camps during the war, testified under oath at the Hague Tribunal that he had eye-witnessed Western news crews stage-managing fake news footage in the refugee camps. He said, "CNN was the most prominent in stage managing things that were to be filmed."
He gave examples of news crews coaching refugees on how to act in front of the cameras. In one example, he said a news crew threw a refugee child into the mud to make him cry for the camera.
In case of Kosovo - there was a whole set of manipulations by Western media. I remember watching one CNN report myself - where they were showing exodus in Kosovo, there was a boy standing there - and as the reporter approached him and as boy realized he was filmed - he suddenly "burst into tears"...
To anyone who is really interested in what happened in 1999 in Kosovo ( without ideological distortions of reality) I suggest reading whole
list of manipulations - which could be relatively easy to confirm as for accuracy - at:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59675
As for Eve-Ann Prentice, a British journalist - and her statement given in the Court in Hague - I saw it myself on TV in January 2006.
Think about what you are saying, because I think that you don't realize how similair this is to Kosovo. NATO is currently occupying Kosovo which has an Albanian majority, Russia is currently occupying Transdniestr which has a Slavic majority. Both have been living there for hundreds of years, both are striving for independence, both had to fight for it. What's the difference between the two? Can you name it?
One has UN administration, the other has Russian administration. If the West can recognize Kosovo, Russian can recognize Transdniestr, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh and South Ossetia.
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