Tadić: Citizens want EU membership

I don’t think that Kosovo and Serbia’s integration into the EU are not related. Besides none of Serbia’s pro democratic politician is against Serbia’s EU integration but it seems that EU imposes some sort of conditions in regard to Kosovo. Yes, it is true that majority of Serbs want to join the EU but also 75% is against the integrations into the EU as partitioned country. However, it might be that those two issues are not directly related but what will happen if the EU recognises Kosovo Mr Tadic? Will you still support Serbia’s integration into the EU? Will you still support the idea of entering some organisation where Serbia won’t be treated equally? What is the matter with you president?

Yes, it is true that peter you clearly missed the point Bmrusila made;

"majority of Serbs want to join the EU but also 75% is against the integrations into the EU as partitioned country."

- Serbia does not want to be part of an EU that dictates and enforces partition as a precondition!

Tadic needs to clarify this dilemma that the EU has sprung upon him and stand up for what the Serbian electorate want - EU membership for an integral Serbia or no membership at all !

On the contrary Tadic himself has indicated that it is the EU stance that is linking Kosovo;

"He said that every mission that arrives in Kosovo must have a basis for doing so approved by the United Nations.

“We are defending that. We are asking Europe to respect those rules,” Tadić said. "

- who exactly then is lniking EU with Kosovo other then the EU "few" themselves with their stated mission that does not respect the rules ?

It is the EU "few" who think they can forcefully partition Serbia because they send in their mission explicitly to do the US bidding and think they can buy/fob off Serbia with a signature that may offer admisssion!

The EU have linked Kosovo to Serbia's EU future or not by their stated view of implementing their mission to do as how they wish against Serbia's Sovereignity!

I think Tadic needs to reappraise his position if as he says himself;

"We are asking Europe to respect those rules, "

- but what if they dont ? What assurances do you have that thay will do as you request inline with international law ?? What then Tadic ???

This is what Serbians need to know before the second round if you are not willing to answer it before the first round.

It is precisely this that Serbian politicians are asking you to clarify since the EU have given you this dilemma and not other Serbian politicians. Of course other Serbian politicians wanting to win the presidential elections will make advantage of this but the link was made by the EU not them!

When the Serbian people are considering whether or not they should join the EU, they might reflect on the following.

In 2005 the Union attempted to introduce a European Constitution which was an attempt to further dilute the powers of national parliaments. Fortunately, the people in Holland and France rejected it in referendums. The idea was dropped.

Now it's back under a different name - the Reform Treaty or the Lisbon Treaty. Because the big pro-European governments are afraid that the people might reject it again, they have decided not to ask them. In fact, of the 27 EU members, only Ireland has decided to hold a referendum on the matter. The rest are pushing it through within their own parliaments.

This is a travesty and completely anti-democratic. It seems to me that Germany and France are running the show here, with the smaller countries being dragged along in the hope and expectation of prosperity down the road.

Here are some of the features of the new Treaty (Constitution):
- A politician chosen to be president of the European Council for two-and-a-half years, replacing the current system where countries take turns at being president for six months
- A new post combining the jobs of the existing foreign affairs supremo, Javier Solana, and the external affairs commissioner, Benita Ferrero-Waldner, to give the EU more clout on the world stage
- A smaller European Commission, with fewer commissioners than there are member states, from 2014
- A redistribution of voting weights between the member states, phased in between 2014 and 2017
- Removal of national vetoes in a number of areas

Since I live in the only country to hold a referendum I will be voting "No". The Serbian people should watch this carefully because if this is passed, democracy within the EU will take another battering. And there will be no way back. Do you want to live in a United States of Europe?

If this is what the people want, the government must act in their interests. Tadic is perfectly right in saying:

""Maybe some politicians do not want us to join the European Union, but surveys show that the citizens want that path," Tadić said. "

Politicians should exist to represent the people, am I right or wrong? If the people consider the EU more important than Kosovo, the government must be prepared to lose Kosovo in favor of the EU. Tadic is right in standing behind international law, the EU is not behaving accordingly in wanting to send a mission outside of the UNSC and I have said this before, but I feel that Tadic (especially if he is re-elected) may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, unlike some of his nationalist politicians who would rather Serbia cooperate with backwards authoritarian states than with the developed world. Of course it's Serbia's cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it is now almost completely occupied by Albanians and also it is far poorer than Serbia proper.

Tadic needs to look at the pro's and con's of Kosovo independence and EU membership. I am sure he will eventually let Kosovo go, I am sure most Serbs do not think it's worth the effort. The days of European nationalism are gone, and they are gone for a reason.

Why should Serbs be allowed membership when it harbors IWC (International War Criminals)?
Why should the perpetrators of Srebrenica be given a slap in the hand? No one cares that 75% of Serbia wants EU, it's their leaders that make the decisions.

The people of Serbia must decide their future. They know whats at stake here. And we all know that the EU or europe and Kosovo is a package deal. If they want europe then Kosovo must be lost. If they want Kosovo then europe is lost for a long while. Thats the choices they have. One or the other, and the people know this. Thats why the people must decide. Not me not you or the US, EU, or Russia. But the people of Serbia. The Albanians have a great slogan, "the will of the people", and thats what must be in Serbia. Because they have to live with their decision not us that live in other countries. The will of the people should decide the fate of Serbia. kostunica should have said to the people, Kosovo or europe you decide. Good luck to you and decide wisely, bcause the future is in your hands.

Well Mr Tadic is trying to bridge the gap that cannot be bridged I think. The EU is clearly breaking the law by encouraging destruction of a sovereign state. This cannot be spinned away with anything. Citizens want to become part of the EU if Kosovo is included. Otherwise they do not want the EU. Mr Tadic must know that big EU countries can enforce laws onto smaller ones without their national parliaments being able to block such laws if they are against their national interests. So clearly this is not something Serbia wants. That's for sure.

Peter,

"Politicians should exist to represent the people, am I right or wrong?"

You are right. So what? Majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq and what?
I believe that majority of people in the world are against this war, and what?

""Maybe some politicians do not want us to join the European Union, but surveys show that the citizens want that path," Tadic said. "

It is some contradiction because at the same time "[...]but also 75% is against the integrations into the EU as partitioned country."

So what Tadic should do?

"[...]some of his nationalist politicians who would rather Serbia cooperate with backwards authoritarian states than with the developed world."

US and EU are a developed world but are declining. It can not be developed any more.
Now developing world are China, India, Indonesia and, you can oppose, Russia.

G.W. Bush is not a dictator. No! He is a "decision maker".
V. Putin is a "dictator" but, be sure, is not a clown. He knows very well what he is doing and whatever he is doing it is at least smart.

"[...]I feel that Tadic (especially if he is re-elected) may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, unlike Of course it's Serbia's cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it is now almost completely occupied by Albanians and also it is far poorer than Serbia proper."

Let say that because Poland is a member of EU and Germans can buy property in Poland
a several millions of them arrive to Poznan region called Wielkopolska. Of course it's Poland cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it would be almost completely occupied by Germans and Kaczynski may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, he will agree to give it up to Germans.

It is hard to believe that it is your thinking.

Yes Tom,
I think United States of Europe would be a great thing for Europe. That's the plan, to start removing barriers between nations so things like WWII don't happen again,also so that Europe doesn't get stuck with vetoes from a single country (read it as Holland now for the sake of your country, or as European diplomacy in 1992-1995 for the sake of Sarajevo, or as 1998 for the sake of K-Albanians). If it wasn't for the US we would still be fighting.

Zbyszek

"You are right. So what? Majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq and what?
I believe that majority of people in the world are against this war, and what? "

Well, next time they will not vote such a guy anymore into power. I don't believe he won the last elections, the OSCE should have monitored those elections and not Serbia, but the point is that if the people will have enough, the same as with Vietnam will happen (president resigning, soldiers coming home etc.).

"US and EU are a developed world but are declining. It can not be developed any more.
Now developing world are China, India, Indonesia and, you can oppose, Russia. "

Maybe they are developing, but we are better developed than these countries. We once had the COMECON, and you know this did not work for us. You remember standing hours outside of shops to get things on "talony". It was hard, and I am sure Serbia does not want the same problems. They were once richer than us, now their economy is behind ours.

"Let say that because Poland is a member of EU and Germans can buy property in Poland
a several millions of them arrive to Poznan region called Wielkopolska. Of course it's Poland cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it would be almost completely occupied by Germans and Kaczynski may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, he will agree to give it up to Germans. "

That is also true, I can't disagree with what you are saying here. But on the other hand the Polish people never treated the Germans like the Serbs treated the Albanians (OK, maybe after the war, but only in revenge to what they did to us. Same as Albanians did to Serbs after the war).

Peter, in general I like your approach to Kosovo problem, but apparently you don't have good info about history of Albanian criminal activity before NATO invasion. Even during J. Bross Tito times. know that because I have spent some period in Yugoslavia close to border of Albania. Right now it is a stronghold of Albanian insurgency in Macedonia, Gostivar.

"That is also true, I can't disagree with what you are saying here. But on the other hand the Polish people never treated the Germans like the Serbs treated the Albanians "

During the war we didn't have opportunity to attack a Germen population, because the Germans came to our territory.

"(OK, maybe after the war, but only in revenge to what they did to us. Same as Albanians did to Serbs after the war)."

But what were Albanians doing before revoking Kosovo's autonomy by Serbia? KLA, as you well know, was on the list of terrorist organizations of US State Department..

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10159/#4
http://www.fas.org/news/russia/1999/990619-rus-wh1.htm
June 19, 1999
PRESS BRIEFING BY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR SANDY BERGER

Q When did the U.S. government formally stop referring to the KLA
as a terrorist organization?

MR. BERGER: Is this a trick question? (Laughter.)

Q No.

Why should Serbs be allowed membership when it harbors IWC (International War Criminals)?
Why should the perpetrators of Srebrenica be given a slap in the hand? No one cares that 75% of Serbia wants EU, it's their leaders that make the decisions.

If this is what the people want, the government must act in their interests. Tadic is perfectly right in saying:

""Maybe some politicians do not want us to join the European Union, but surveys show that the citizens want that path," Tadić said. "

Politicians should exist to represent the people, am I right or wrong? If the people consider the EU more important than Kosovo, the government must be prepared to lose Kosovo in favor of the EU. Tadic is right in standing behind international law, the EU is not behaving accordingly in wanting to send a mission outside of the UNSC and I have said this before, but I feel that Tadic (especially if he is re-elected) may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, unlike some of his nationalist politicians who would rather Serbia cooperate with backwards authoritarian states than with the developed world. Of course it's Serbia's cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it is now almost completely occupied by Albanians and also it is far poorer than Serbia proper.

Tadic needs to look at the pro's and con's of Kosovo independence and EU membership. I am sure he will eventually let Kosovo go, I am sure most Serbs do not think it's worth the effort. The days of European nationalism are gone, and they are gone for a reason.

Yes, it is true that peter you clearly missed the point Bmrusila made;

"majority of Serbs want to join the EU but also 75% is against the integrations into the EU as partitioned country."

- Serbia does not want to be part of an EU that dictates and enforces partition as a precondition!

Tadic needs to clarify this dilemma that the EU has sprung upon him and stand up for what the Serbian electorate want - EU membership for an integral Serbia or no membership at all !

On the contrary Tadic himself has indicated that it is the EU stance that is linking Kosovo;

"He said that every mission that arrives in Kosovo must have a basis for doing so approved by the United Nations.

“We are defending that. We are asking Europe to respect those rules,” Tadić said. "

- who exactly then is lniking EU with Kosovo other then the EU "few" themselves with their stated mission that does not respect the rules ?

It is the EU "few" who think they can forcefully partition Serbia because they send in their mission explicitly to do the US bidding and think they can buy/fob off Serbia with a signature that may offer admisssion!

The EU have linked Kosovo to Serbia's EU future or not by their stated view of implementing their mission to do as how they wish against Serbia's Sovereignity!

I think Tadic needs to reappraise his position if as he says himself;

"We are asking Europe to respect those rules, "

- but what if they dont ? What assurances do you have that thay will do as you request inline with international law ?? What then Tadic ???

This is what Serbians need to know before the second round if you are not willing to answer it before the first round.

It is precisely this that Serbian politicians are asking you to clarify since the EU have given you this dilemma and not other Serbian politicians. Of course other Serbian politicians wanting to win the presidential elections will make advantage of this but the link was made by the EU not them!

I don’t think that Kosovo and Serbia’s integration into the EU are not related. Besides none of Serbia’s pro democratic politician is against Serbia’s EU integration but it seems that EU imposes some sort of conditions in regard to Kosovo. Yes, it is true that majority of Serbs want to join the EU but also 75% is against the integrations into the EU as partitioned country. However, it might be that those two issues are not directly related but what will happen if the EU recognises Kosovo Mr Tadic? Will you still support Serbia’s integration into the EU? Will you still support the idea of entering some organisation where Serbia won’t be treated equally? What is the matter with you president?

The people of Serbia must decide their future. They know whats at stake here. And we all know that the EU or europe and Kosovo is a package deal. If they want europe then Kosovo must be lost. If they want Kosovo then europe is lost for a long while. Thats the choices they have. One or the other, and the people know this. Thats why the people must decide. Not me not you or the US, EU, or Russia. But the people of Serbia. The Albanians have a great slogan, "the will of the people", and thats what must be in Serbia. Because they have to live with their decision not us that live in other countries. The will of the people should decide the fate of Serbia. kostunica should have said to the people, Kosovo or europe you decide. Good luck to you and decide wisely, bcause the future is in your hands.

When the Serbian people are considering whether or not they should join the EU, they might reflect on the following.

In 2005 the Union attempted to introduce a European Constitution which was an attempt to further dilute the powers of national parliaments. Fortunately, the people in Holland and France rejected it in referendums. The idea was dropped.

Now it's back under a different name - the Reform Treaty or the Lisbon Treaty. Because the big pro-European governments are afraid that the people might reject it again, they have decided not to ask them. In fact, of the 27 EU members, only Ireland has decided to hold a referendum on the matter. The rest are pushing it through within their own parliaments.

This is a travesty and completely anti-democratic. It seems to me that Germany and France are running the show here, with the smaller countries being dragged along in the hope and expectation of prosperity down the road.

Here are some of the features of the new Treaty (Constitution):
- A politician chosen to be president of the European Council for two-and-a-half years, replacing the current system where countries take turns at being president for six months
- A new post combining the jobs of the existing foreign affairs supremo, Javier Solana, and the external affairs commissioner, Benita Ferrero-Waldner, to give the EU more clout on the world stage
- A smaller European Commission, with fewer commissioners than there are member states, from 2014
- A redistribution of voting weights between the member states, phased in between 2014 and 2017
- Removal of national vetoes in a number of areas

Since I live in the only country to hold a referendum I will be voting "No". The Serbian people should watch this carefully because if this is passed, democracy within the EU will take another battering. And there will be no way back. Do you want to live in a United States of Europe?

Well Mr Tadic is trying to bridge the gap that cannot be bridged I think. The EU is clearly breaking the law by encouraging destruction of a sovereign state. This cannot be spinned away with anything. Citizens want to become part of the EU if Kosovo is included. Otherwise they do not want the EU. Mr Tadic must know that big EU countries can enforce laws onto smaller ones without their national parliaments being able to block such laws if they are against their national interests. So clearly this is not something Serbia wants. That's for sure.

Peter,

"Politicians should exist to represent the people, am I right or wrong?"

You are right. So what? Majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq and what?
I believe that majority of people in the world are against this war, and what?

""Maybe some politicians do not want us to join the European Union, but surveys show that the citizens want that path," Tadic said. "

It is some contradiction because at the same time "[...]but also 75% is against the integrations into the EU as partitioned country."

So what Tadic should do?

"[...]some of his nationalist politicians who would rather Serbia cooperate with backwards authoritarian states than with the developed world."

US and EU are a developed world but are declining. It can not be developed any more.
Now developing world are China, India, Indonesia and, you can oppose, Russia.

G.W. Bush is not a dictator. No! He is a "decision maker".
V. Putin is a "dictator" but, be sure, is not a clown. He knows very well what he is doing and whatever he is doing it is at least smart.

"[...]I feel that Tadic (especially if he is re-elected) may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, unlike Of course it's Serbia's cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it is now almost completely occupied by Albanians and also it is far poorer than Serbia proper."

Let say that because Poland is a member of EU and Germans can buy property in Poland
a several millions of them arrive to Poznan region called Wielkopolska. Of course it's Poland cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it would be almost completely occupied by Germans and Kaczynski may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, he will agree to give it up to Germans.

It is hard to believe that it is your thinking.

Yes Tom,
I think United States of Europe would be a great thing for Europe. That's the plan, to start removing barriers between nations so things like WWII don't happen again,also so that Europe doesn't get stuck with vetoes from a single country (read it as Holland now for the sake of your country, or as European diplomacy in 1992-1995 for the sake of Sarajevo, or as 1998 for the sake of K-Albanians). If it wasn't for the US we would still be fighting.

Zbyszek

"You are right. So what? Majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq and what?
I believe that majority of people in the world are against this war, and what? "

Well, next time they will not vote such a guy anymore into power. I don't believe he won the last elections, the OSCE should have monitored those elections and not Serbia, but the point is that if the people will have enough, the same as with Vietnam will happen (president resigning, soldiers coming home etc.).

"US and EU are a developed world but are declining. It can not be developed any more.
Now developing world are China, India, Indonesia and, you can oppose, Russia. "

Maybe they are developing, but we are better developed than these countries. We once had the COMECON, and you know this did not work for us. You remember standing hours outside of shops to get things on "talony". It was hard, and I am sure Serbia does not want the same problems. They were once richer than us, now their economy is behind ours.

"Let say that because Poland is a member of EU and Germans can buy property in Poland
a several millions of them arrive to Poznan region called Wielkopolska. Of course it's Poland cradle of civilization, one must understand that, on the other hand, it would be almost completely occupied by Germans and Kaczynski may have to make the painful choice, because he is a good man and would not want isolation from the West, he will agree to give it up to Germans. "

That is also true, I can't disagree with what you are saying here. But on the other hand the Polish people never treated the Germans like the Serbs treated the Albanians (OK, maybe after the war, but only in revenge to what they did to us. Same as Albanians did to Serbs after the war).

Peter, in general I like your approach to Kosovo problem, but apparently you don't have good info about history of Albanian criminal activity before NATO invasion. Even during J. Bross Tito times. know that because I have spent some period in Yugoslavia close to border of Albania. Right now it is a stronghold of Albanian insurgency in Macedonia, Gostivar.

"That is also true, I can't disagree with what you are saying here. But on the other hand the Polish people never treated the Germans like the Serbs treated the Albanians "

During the war we didn't have opportunity to attack a Germen population, because the Germans came to our territory.

"(OK, maybe after the war, but only in revenge to what they did to us. Same as Albanians did to Serbs after the war)."

But what were Albanians doing before revoking Kosovo's autonomy by Serbia? KLA, as you well know, was on the list of terrorist organizations of US State Department..

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10159/#4
http://www.fas.org/news/russia/1999/990619-rus-wh1.htm
June 19, 1999
PRESS BRIEFING BY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR SANDY BERGER

Q When did the U.S. government formally stop referring to the KLA
as a terrorist organization?

MR. BERGER: Is this a trick question? (Laughter.)

Q No.