"Now that Serbs see that kosova's independence is inevitable, they want to get at least a part of it through partition.
But Kosova will not be partitioned at all, it will completely be INDEPENDENT.
(Afrim Hoxha, 14 January 2008 03:47) "
This independence will have to be OUTSIDE the UN. If you are happy with that, fine.
As for partition, there is already de facto partition on the ground. If you are emotionally unable to accept that, too bad.
This is how the first time I heard for Albanians while commiting the crimes against Serbs during early 80's and I grew up still learning Albanians crimes against Serbs.
(bmrusila, 14 January 2008 12:25)
Bmrusila,
So reading about it and experiencing is the same then (that is a new concept).
What is also new here is that based on what you wrote, Albanians managed to commit crimes against Serbs in the 80s.
You do know though that in the 80s Kosovo was heaving with Serbian police forces and Serbian special units (Arkan being one of them, “training” his troops in the centre of Prishtina -- been there and seen it).
Did you read about that while reading about Albanian crimes?
Did you by any chance manage to stumble on anything about crimes that Serbs did to Albanians while you were browsing for Albanian crimes?
I have said once (I believe to Peggy) and will repeat it to you (I don’t expect for you to accept it though).
If you had to deal only for a week with what Albanians had to endure for a long time your comments would be completely different.
One last note:
How does it come that it wasn’t until the 80s that you heard about Albanians (bearing the fact that we are in Europe and as you strongly believe “we were making crimes even before the 80s”).
You do not have to respond to the last sentence, I was just curious.
Nocholas Klinsman has made correct sentence and would be stupid to deny it. Yes, your compatriots did kill, did rape, did cleanse Serbs, did destroy 150 churches only in couple of months. Serbs experienced the Albanian rule long before Milosevic came to the power. The only thing Albanians know very well is to use a force in order to be given more, more, more, more and more they want and never ending more. This is how the first time I heard for Albanians while commiting the crimes against Serbs during early 80's and I grew up still learning Albanians crimes against Serbs.
"3. This would also put Russia in a dilemna in that NATO forces in Kosovo is part of the UN resolution do they support a military action"
Clearly if the US and a "few" EU states act against serbia's sovereignity (as protected by UN laws and norms etc..) then these illegal (act of force) mean those troops from such states have no legality for their presence and should withdraw immedialtly otherwise they are in occupation against the UN resolution and against those others within NATO who do uphold 1244.
- clearly this is an internal NATO dillema too since it would pit NATO against itself!
What if hypothetically the Chinese and Russians insit that they must send a large contingent as part of the UN mission which maintains Serbia's sovereignity as an integral element of 1244 ?
Clearly they could maintain peace and international law and the "few" in NATO cannot act against this either ?
Under 1244 Russia would be not acting offensivly in anyway militarily but will be upholding the very law that some pretend gives them a right to partition the UN recognised, Sovereign, European and Democratic Republic of Serbia.
Michael John, I disagree with your assertion that saying there will not be a military intervention is a political blunder. All the politicians with the exception of a few super radicals have made the same or similar statements. Here is why.
1. Everyone on both sides wants a peaceful resolution without warfare. Even the US which some will disagree but everyone knows that US is stretched militarily right now.
2. Any military action would be against NATO not Kosovo, some of Serbia's biggest supporters are members or allies of NATO, this would cause internal problems in these countries of whether they support NATO or a country that threatens to attack their (own) forces.
Therefore you may see some wavering of Serbian supposrt and the ones on the fence are not going to suddenly jump over.
3. This would also put Russia in a dilemna in that NATO forces in Kosovo is part of the UN resolution do they support a military action. If they do there is a big possiblility of WW3. I am not saying Russia would "not" support such an action just that it would not be as easy a decision as some Serbians think.
Now then do I think most of the politicians are sincere in what they say that there would be no military intervention, probably not. But at this stage to make such threats have grave consequences in the aspirations of Serbia.
Please note I have not made a single comment here in favor or against independence nor anything derrogatory toward either side.
Johny: Serbs in north Mitrovica do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them
Nicholas Klinsman, 14 January 2008 00:17
Nicholas,
You got the act right, you just mixed up the actors somehow.
The sentence should say: Albanians do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them.
It is a natural mistake I guess (at least based on a number of postings I read), confusing the victim with the perpetrator.
It shouldn’t though.
You have the tendency of doing that quite often (is that a habit or is it simply “attack is the best defence” theory that you have mastered). Hurray, Milosevic is still alive, reincarnated as Nicholas.
Now that Serbs see that kosova's independence is inevitable, they want to get at least a part of it through partition.
But Kosova will not be partitioned at all, it will completely be INDEPENDENT.
Anyone who is honest enough will admit the facts on the ground: Kosovo has since 1999 developed into 2 distinct and separate societies -- Serbian and Albanian. No matter how much the politicians may want to do window dressing, that's the true situation on the ground. Which neither UNMIK nor Nato could or dare prevent -- not unless they want to use force on unarmed civilians and become the new Milosevic in front of the entire world.
I won´t comment on your last contribution, since you do not even seem to know that Mr.Nikolic is not from the same party than the president of those former times mentioned.
but that´s the albanian way of argumentation: mix up things just the way they would serve you as an excuse for the greater-albanian ideology...
One thing that separates southern serbia with northern kosovo, a 16,000 strong NATO force which has stated its stance against partition of kosovar lands.
Johhny: I hope serbs comprehend what you have said,
and move out of the 'milosevic-nationalist propaganda' of the 80's, because its the 21st century!
I wonder how many 'told-you-so' remarks are going to be posted when kosovo gets its independence.
Where does the Serbian diaspora stand and what can it do! when you have Jeremic and Tadic and the likes, talking of a possible Kosovo partition!
Kostunica is one politician who stands with the diaspora and who legally and factually demands, against all agressive forces, that Kosovo and Metohija is sovereign territory of Serbia.
AND if ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo and Metohija illegally steal, detach Serbian territory for themselves, then Serbia must regard this as an "occupation" and diplomatically never give up on getting her territory returned.
Kosovo and Metohija is whole and cannot be separated or partitioned because that would mean giving our monasteries, churches, graveyards, bishops, monks, female monahinje, clerics and all serbian nationals into a forced position of living in an Albanian state.
Serbian diaspora does not and should never accept Gracanica and Decani monasteries and their clerics to be living in an Albanian state. This the Russians understand and respect, however, US State Department and some EU members have no respect or comprehension of what is normal and proper conduct.
This get funnier by the minute. Is it possible that Jeremic did not coordinate his statement with Neewsweek?
According to Neewsweek Serbs s/b happy because everything is going their way.
Johny: Serbs in north Mitrovica do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them. It seems like you have the same ideological stance as the North Kosovo Serbs.
Nehat: Thaci's comments have less importance in North Mitrovica than Kostunica's comments do in Pristina.
because it is not the same state. you would love to have it that way, but unfortunately for you, Slobo is dead and his regime is gone.
adjust to it!
(Jovan, 13 January 2008 23:24) "
Jovan, I am sorry to disappoint you but there is no difference between this state and the one before this.
1. The greatest party and the one that has the most seats in the parliament are the ultra- nationalists.
2. The next president of Serbia might be from the same party. Not only that but it might be the same person who one year ago wanted to declare war to the UN personnel in Kosova/o. I am talking about Nikolic here.
3. You have a state that on purpose denies the right to vote for the constitution to a whole ethnicity, the same ethnicity that Serbia prosecuted, murdered and ethnically cleansed just a few years ago. Talk about democracy, people's will and representation. That doesn't exist if you are born with Albanian ethnicity. Tadic Kostunica and the Serbian state do not consider you worthy enough to cast a vote if your ethnicity is Albanian.
4. You have a prime minister who at every occasion refers to Albanians of Kosova/o as terrorists, thieves, criminals and all kinds derogatory names.
5.Just like during Milosevic's time progressive politicians are eliminated through murder (you know who I am talking about).
6. You have a state that still has not dealt with its own actions and come publicly forward and accept that what they did in Kosova/o in 1999 was wrong. None of the leaders of this state has come forward and apologize to the victims for what their state has done to their families.
These are just a few things that come to my mind without needing to think for more than a minute.
P.S I hope B92 publishes this post, since it has been their habit lately to not publish my posts that deal with my opinions about the Serbia state.
Serbs are still playing the same old tune. Keep in mind: You are not the one who decide for events. Neither we Albanians.! Stop the noise. North will not seperate. There is a mine there, worth more than the whole Serbs.
"Milošević was brought down in a democratic way, he died as a prisoner accused by the Hague Tribunal. Why then should Serbia today pay the price for a war that Milošević himself was not made to pay,"
Because he might have been innocent due to total lack of evidence?
The KLA with western help caused the war to start with.
If the EU becomes responsible
for the annexation and UDI
of Kosovo and its eventual
partition why join them?
Furthermore,Mr Jeremi there
will be more unacceptable
membership criteria imposed
upon Serbia that will lead
to total humiliation of the
country and its people.If the
country wishes to integrate
with EU this should be done
on equal footing.
""Milošević was brought down in a democratic way, he died as a prisoner accused by the Hague Tribunal. Why then should Serbia today pay the price for a war that Milošević himself was not made to pay,"
Then why should the victims of that war, the Kosova/o Albanians pay by being under the same state that killed them, ethnically cleansed them, and raped their women?
this is nothing but words of a faild diplomatic front, the serb politicians are well awear that kosova is now under albanian rule. good try. and this last minute ditch to rescue or save face will not resolve anything for the people f serbia or rather its politions Thaci did say 1 day ago in the north mitrovica that mitrovica is one and that will not change. stop puring money into the north of kosovo it will be lost in the end.
Pathetic! Now I see that the Serbs dont have a real cause here! In other words the Serbs are not the true and rightful owner of Kosovo. I was under the impression that the Serbian people was fighting for their "cradle of civilization" considering the fact that all the important monastiries are south of the Ibar river. If serbs are happy with partition then why are we condemning potential UDI? Afterall(to me at least) Albainians seem to be the true owner of Kosovo as they keep on sticking to their original demand for indipendence. cheers
as far as i am concerned game over
spunky
It is clear that Jeremic is still wet behind the ears. He has committed a rather serious political blunder by stating that Serbia will NOT use military means to try and hold on to Kosovo. That is all the Europeans needed to hear. I predict there will be a EU contingent in Prishtina very shortly to relieve UNMIK.
Vuk is beginning to sound like an empty suit the more he open his mouth. I think it is time for him to go back to the U.S. to earn a graduate degree in Diplomacy.
because it is not the same state. you would love to have it that way, but unfortunately for you, Slobo is dead and his regime is gone.
adjust to it!
(Jovan, 13 January 2008 23:24) "
Jovan, I am sorry to disappoint you but there is no difference between this state and the one before this.
1. The greatest party and the one that has the most seats in the parliament are the ultra- nationalists.
2. The next president of Serbia might be from the same party. Not only that but it might be the same person who one year ago wanted to declare war to the UN personnel in Kosova/o. I am talking about Nikolic here.
3. You have a state that on purpose denies the right to vote for the constitution to a whole ethnicity, the same ethnicity that Serbia prosecuted, murdered and ethnically cleansed just a few years ago. Talk about democracy, people's will and representation. That doesn't exist if you are born with Albanian ethnicity. Tadic Kostunica and the Serbian state do not consider you worthy enough to cast a vote if your ethnicity is Albanian.
4. You have a prime minister who at every occasion refers to Albanians of Kosova/o as terrorists, thieves, criminals and all kinds derogatory names.
5.Just like during Milosevic's time progressive politicians are eliminated through murder (you know who I am talking about).
6. You have a state that still has not dealt with its own actions and come publicly forward and accept that what they did in Kosova/o in 1999 was wrong. None of the leaders of this state has come forward and apologize to the victims for what their state has done to their families.
These are just a few things that come to my mind without needing to think for more than a minute.
P.S I hope B92 publishes this post, since it has been their habit lately to not publish my posts that deal with my opinions about the Serbia state.
"Milošević was brought down in a democratic way, he died as a prisoner accused by the Hague Tribunal. Why then should Serbia today pay the price for a war that Milošević himself was not made to pay,"
Because he might have been innocent due to total lack of evidence?
The KLA with western help caused the war to start with.
""Milošević was brought down in a democratic way, he died as a prisoner accused by the Hague Tribunal. Why then should Serbia today pay the price for a war that Milošević himself was not made to pay,"
Then why should the victims of that war, the Kosova/o Albanians pay by being under the same state that killed them, ethnically cleansed them, and raped their women?
Johny: Serbs in north Mitrovica do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them. It seems like you have the same ideological stance as the North Kosovo Serbs.
Nehat: Thaci's comments have less importance in North Mitrovica than Kostunica's comments do in Pristina.
Pathetic! Now I see that the Serbs dont have a real cause here! In other words the Serbs are not the true and rightful owner of Kosovo. I was under the impression that the Serbian people was fighting for their "cradle of civilization" considering the fact that all the important monastiries are south of the Ibar river. If serbs are happy with partition then why are we condemning potential UDI? Afterall(to me at least) Albainians seem to be the true owner of Kosovo as they keep on sticking to their original demand for indipendence. cheers
as far as i am concerned game over
spunky
If the EU becomes responsible
for the annexation and UDI
of Kosovo and its eventual
partition why join them?
Furthermore,Mr Jeremi there
will be more unacceptable
membership criteria imposed
upon Serbia that will lead
to total humiliation of the
country and its people.If the
country wishes to integrate
with EU this should be done
on equal footing.
It is clear that Jeremic is still wet behind the ears. He has committed a rather serious political blunder by stating that Serbia will NOT use military means to try and hold on to Kosovo. That is all the Europeans needed to hear. I predict there will be a EU contingent in Prishtina very shortly to relieve UNMIK.
Vuk is beginning to sound like an empty suit the more he open his mouth. I think it is time for him to go back to the U.S. to earn a graduate degree in Diplomacy.
this is nothing but words of a faild diplomatic front, the serb politicians are well awear that kosova is now under albanian rule. good try. and this last minute ditch to rescue or save face will not resolve anything for the people f serbia or rather its politions Thaci did say 1 day ago in the north mitrovica that mitrovica is one and that will not change. stop puring money into the north of kosovo it will be lost in the end.
Nocholas Klinsman has made correct sentence and would be stupid to deny it. Yes, your compatriots did kill, did rape, did cleanse Serbs, did destroy 150 churches only in couple of months. Serbs experienced the Albanian rule long before Milosevic came to the power. The only thing Albanians know very well is to use a force in order to be given more, more, more, more and more they want and never ending more. This is how the first time I heard for Albanians while commiting the crimes against Serbs during early 80's and I grew up still learning Albanians crimes against Serbs.
Where does the Serbian diaspora stand and what can it do! when you have Jeremic and Tadic and the likes, talking of a possible Kosovo partition!
Kostunica is one politician who stands with the diaspora and who legally and factually demands, against all agressive forces, that Kosovo and Metohija is sovereign territory of Serbia.
AND if ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo and Metohija illegally steal, detach Serbian territory for themselves, then Serbia must regard this as an "occupation" and diplomatically never give up on getting her territory returned.
Kosovo and Metohija is whole and cannot be separated or partitioned because that would mean giving our monasteries, churches, graveyards, bishops, monks, female monahinje, clerics and all serbian nationals into a forced position of living in an Albanian state.
Serbian diaspora does not and should never accept Gracanica and Decani monasteries and their clerics to be living in an Albanian state. This the Russians understand and respect, however, US State Department and some EU members have no respect or comprehension of what is normal and proper conduct.
"3. This would also put Russia in a dilemna in that NATO forces in Kosovo is part of the UN resolution do they support a military action"
Clearly if the US and a "few" EU states act against serbia's sovereignity (as protected by UN laws and norms etc..) then these illegal (act of force) mean those troops from such states have no legality for their presence and should withdraw immedialtly otherwise they are in occupation against the UN resolution and against those others within NATO who do uphold 1244.
- clearly this is an internal NATO dillema too since it would pit NATO against itself!
What if hypothetically the Chinese and Russians insit that they must send a large contingent as part of the UN mission which maintains Serbia's sovereignity as an integral element of 1244 ?
Clearly they could maintain peace and international law and the "few" in NATO cannot act against this either ?
Under 1244 Russia would be not acting offensivly in anyway militarily but will be upholding the very law that some pretend gives them a right to partition the UN recognised, Sovereign, European and Democratic Republic of Serbia.
Serbs are still playing the same old tune. Keep in mind: You are not the one who decide for events. Neither we Albanians.! Stop the noise. North will not seperate. There is a mine there, worth more than the whole Serbs.
I won´t comment on your last contribution, since you do not even seem to know that Mr.Nikolic is not from the same party than the president of those former times mentioned.
but that´s the albanian way of argumentation: mix up things just the way they would serve you as an excuse for the greater-albanian ideology...
Anyone who is honest enough will admit the facts on the ground: Kosovo has since 1999 developed into 2 distinct and separate societies -- Serbian and Albanian. No matter how much the politicians may want to do window dressing, that's the true situation on the ground. Which neither UNMIK nor Nato could or dare prevent -- not unless they want to use force on unarmed civilians and become the new Milosevic in front of the entire world.
This is how the first time I heard for Albanians while commiting the crimes against Serbs during early 80's and I grew up still learning Albanians crimes against Serbs.
(bmrusila, 14 January 2008 12:25)
Bmrusila,
So reading about it and experiencing is the same then (that is a new concept).
What is also new here is that based on what you wrote, Albanians managed to commit crimes against Serbs in the 80s.
You do know though that in the 80s Kosovo was heaving with Serbian police forces and Serbian special units (Arkan being one of them, “training” his troops in the centre of Prishtina -- been there and seen it).
Did you read about that while reading about Albanian crimes?
Did you by any chance manage to stumble on anything about crimes that Serbs did to Albanians while you were browsing for Albanian crimes?
I have said once (I believe to Peggy) and will repeat it to you (I don’t expect for you to accept it though).
If you had to deal only for a week with what Albanians had to endure for a long time your comments would be completely different.
One last note:
How does it come that it wasn’t until the 80s that you heard about Albanians (bearing the fact that we are in Europe and as you strongly believe “we were making crimes even before the 80s”).
You do not have to respond to the last sentence, I was just curious.
Now that Serbs see that kosova's independence is inevitable, they want to get at least a part of it through partition.
But Kosova will not be partitioned at all, it will completely be INDEPENDENT.
This get funnier by the minute. Is it possible that Jeremic did not coordinate his statement with Neewsweek?
According to Neewsweek Serbs s/b happy because everything is going their way.
Johny: Serbs in north Mitrovica do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them
Nicholas Klinsman, 14 January 2008 00:17
Nicholas,
You got the act right, you just mixed up the actors somehow.
The sentence should say: Albanians do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them.
It is a natural mistake I guess (at least based on a number of postings I read), confusing the victim with the perpetrator.
It shouldn’t though.
You have the tendency of doing that quite often (is that a habit or is it simply “attack is the best defence” theory that you have mastered). Hurray, Milosevic is still alive, reincarnated as Nicholas.
One thing that separates southern serbia with northern kosovo, a 16,000 strong NATO force which has stated its stance against partition of kosovar lands.
Johhny: I hope serbs comprehend what you have said,
and move out of the 'milosevic-nationalist propaganda' of the 80's, because its the 21st century!
I wonder how many 'told-you-so' remarks are going to be posted when kosovo gets its independence.
"Now that Serbs see that kosova's independence is inevitable, they want to get at least a part of it through partition.
But Kosova will not be partitioned at all, it will completely be INDEPENDENT.
(Afrim Hoxha, 14 January 2008 03:47) "
This independence will have to be OUTSIDE the UN. If you are happy with that, fine.
As for partition, there is already de facto partition on the ground. If you are emotionally unable to accept that, too bad.
Michael John, I disagree with your assertion that saying there will not be a military intervention is a political blunder. All the politicians with the exception of a few super radicals have made the same or similar statements. Here is why.
1. Everyone on both sides wants a peaceful resolution without warfare. Even the US which some will disagree but everyone knows that US is stretched militarily right now.
2. Any military action would be against NATO not Kosovo, some of Serbia's biggest supporters are members or allies of NATO, this would cause internal problems in these countries of whether they support NATO or a country that threatens to attack their (own) forces.
Therefore you may see some wavering of Serbian supposrt and the ones on the fence are not going to suddenly jump over.
3. This would also put Russia in a dilemna in that NATO forces in Kosovo is part of the UN resolution do they support a military action. If they do there is a big possiblility of WW3. I am not saying Russia would "not" support such an action just that it would not be as easy a decision as some Serbians think.
Now then do I think most of the politicians are sincere in what they say that there would be no military intervention, probably not. But at this stage to make such threats have grave consequences in the aspirations of Serbia.
Please note I have not made a single comment here in favor or against independence nor anything derrogatory toward either side.
""Milošević was brought down in a democratic way, he died as a prisoner accused by the Hague Tribunal. Why then should Serbia today pay the price for a war that Milošević himself was not made to pay,"
Then why should the victims of that war, the Kosova/o Albanians pay by being under the same state that killed them, ethnically cleansed them, and raped their women?
Pathetic! Now I see that the Serbs dont have a real cause here! In other words the Serbs are not the true and rightful owner of Kosovo. I was under the impression that the Serbian people was fighting for their "cradle of civilization" considering the fact that all the important monastiries are south of the Ibar river. If serbs are happy with partition then why are we condemning potential UDI? Afterall(to me at least) Albainians seem to be the true owner of Kosovo as they keep on sticking to their original demand for indipendence. cheers
as far as i am concerned game over
spunky
this is nothing but words of a faild diplomatic front, the serb politicians are well awear that kosova is now under albanian rule. good try. and this last minute ditch to rescue or save face will not resolve anything for the people f serbia or rather its politions Thaci did say 1 day ago in the north mitrovica that mitrovica is one and that will not change. stop puring money into the north of kosovo it will be lost in the end.
Serbs are still playing the same old tune. Keep in mind: You are not the one who decide for events. Neither we Albanians.! Stop the noise. North will not seperate. There is a mine there, worth more than the whole Serbs.
because it is not the same state. you would love to have it that way, but unfortunately for you, Slobo is dead and his regime is gone.
adjust to it!
(Jovan, 13 January 2008 23:24) "
Jovan, I am sorry to disappoint you but there is no difference between this state and the one before this.
1. The greatest party and the one that has the most seats in the parliament are the ultra- nationalists.
2. The next president of Serbia might be from the same party. Not only that but it might be the same person who one year ago wanted to declare war to the UN personnel in Kosova/o. I am talking about Nikolic here.
3. You have a state that on purpose denies the right to vote for the constitution to a whole ethnicity, the same ethnicity that Serbia prosecuted, murdered and ethnically cleansed just a few years ago. Talk about democracy, people's will and representation. That doesn't exist if you are born with Albanian ethnicity. Tadic Kostunica and the Serbian state do not consider you worthy enough to cast a vote if your ethnicity is Albanian.
4. You have a prime minister who at every occasion refers to Albanians of Kosova/o as terrorists, thieves, criminals and all kinds derogatory names.
5.Just like during Milosevic's time progressive politicians are eliminated through murder (you know who I am talking about).
6. You have a state that still has not dealt with its own actions and come publicly forward and accept that what they did in Kosova/o in 1999 was wrong. None of the leaders of this state has come forward and apologize to the victims for what their state has done to their families.
These are just a few things that come to my mind without needing to think for more than a minute.
P.S I hope B92 publishes this post, since it has been their habit lately to not publish my posts that deal with my opinions about the Serbia state.
It is clear that Jeremic is still wet behind the ears. He has committed a rather serious political blunder by stating that Serbia will NOT use military means to try and hold on to Kosovo. That is all the Europeans needed to hear. I predict there will be a EU contingent in Prishtina very shortly to relieve UNMIK.
Vuk is beginning to sound like an empty suit the more he open his mouth. I think it is time for him to go back to the U.S. to earn a graduate degree in Diplomacy.
"Milošević was brought down in a democratic way, he died as a prisoner accused by the Hague Tribunal. Why then should Serbia today pay the price for a war that Milošević himself was not made to pay,"
Because he might have been innocent due to total lack of evidence?
The KLA with western help caused the war to start with.
One thing that separates southern serbia with northern kosovo, a 16,000 strong NATO force which has stated its stance against partition of kosovar lands.
Johhny: I hope serbs comprehend what you have said,
and move out of the 'milosevic-nationalist propaganda' of the 80's, because its the 21st century!
I wonder how many 'told-you-so' remarks are going to be posted when kosovo gets its independence.
Johny: Serbs in north Mitrovica do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them. It seems like you have the same ideological stance as the North Kosovo Serbs.
Nehat: Thaci's comments have less importance in North Mitrovica than Kostunica's comments do in Pristina.
This get funnier by the minute. Is it possible that Jeremic did not coordinate his statement with Neewsweek?
According to Neewsweek Serbs s/b happy because everything is going their way.
Now that Serbs see that kosova's independence is inevitable, they want to get at least a part of it through partition.
But Kosova will not be partitioned at all, it will completely be INDEPENDENT.
Johny: Serbs in north Mitrovica do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them
Nicholas Klinsman, 14 January 2008 00:17
Nicholas,
You got the act right, you just mixed up the actors somehow.
The sentence should say: Albanians do not want to live under a people who have killed, cleansed, and raped them.
It is a natural mistake I guess (at least based on a number of postings I read), confusing the victim with the perpetrator.
It shouldn’t though.
You have the tendency of doing that quite often (is that a habit or is it simply “attack is the best defence” theory that you have mastered). Hurray, Milosevic is still alive, reincarnated as Nicholas.
Nocholas Klinsman has made correct sentence and would be stupid to deny it. Yes, your compatriots did kill, did rape, did cleanse Serbs, did destroy 150 churches only in couple of months. Serbs experienced the Albanian rule long before Milosevic came to the power. The only thing Albanians know very well is to use a force in order to be given more, more, more, more and more they want and never ending more. This is how the first time I heard for Albanians while commiting the crimes against Serbs during early 80's and I grew up still learning Albanians crimes against Serbs.
This is how the first time I heard for Albanians while commiting the crimes against Serbs during early 80's and I grew up still learning Albanians crimes against Serbs.
(bmrusila, 14 January 2008 12:25)
Bmrusila,
So reading about it and experiencing is the same then (that is a new concept).
What is also new here is that based on what you wrote, Albanians managed to commit crimes against Serbs in the 80s.
You do know though that in the 80s Kosovo was heaving with Serbian police forces and Serbian special units (Arkan being one of them, “training” his troops in the centre of Prishtina -- been there and seen it).
Did you read about that while reading about Albanian crimes?
Did you by any chance manage to stumble on anything about crimes that Serbs did to Albanians while you were browsing for Albanian crimes?
I have said once (I believe to Peggy) and will repeat it to you (I don’t expect for you to accept it though).
If you had to deal only for a week with what Albanians had to endure for a long time your comments would be completely different.
One last note:
How does it come that it wasn’t until the 80s that you heard about Albanians (bearing the fact that we are in Europe and as you strongly believe “we were making crimes even before the 80s”).
You do not have to respond to the last sentence, I was just curious.
Michael John, I disagree with your assertion that saying there will not be a military intervention is a political blunder. All the politicians with the exception of a few super radicals have made the same or similar statements. Here is why.
1. Everyone on both sides wants a peaceful resolution without warfare. Even the US which some will disagree but everyone knows that US is stretched militarily right now.
2. Any military action would be against NATO not Kosovo, some of Serbia's biggest supporters are members or allies of NATO, this would cause internal problems in these countries of whether they support NATO or a country that threatens to attack their (own) forces.
Therefore you may see some wavering of Serbian supposrt and the ones on the fence are not going to suddenly jump over.
3. This would also put Russia in a dilemna in that NATO forces in Kosovo is part of the UN resolution do they support a military action. If they do there is a big possiblility of WW3. I am not saying Russia would "not" support such an action just that it would not be as easy a decision as some Serbians think.
Now then do I think most of the politicians are sincere in what they say that there would be no military intervention, probably not. But at this stage to make such threats have grave consequences in the aspirations of Serbia.
Please note I have not made a single comment here in favor or against independence nor anything derrogatory toward either side.
If the EU becomes responsible
for the annexation and UDI
of Kosovo and its eventual
partition why join them?
Furthermore,Mr Jeremi there
will be more unacceptable
membership criteria imposed
upon Serbia that will lead
to total humiliation of the
country and its people.If the
country wishes to integrate
with EU this should be done
on equal footing.
Where does the Serbian diaspora stand and what can it do! when you have Jeremic and Tadic and the likes, talking of a possible Kosovo partition!
Kostunica is one politician who stands with the diaspora and who legally and factually demands, against all agressive forces, that Kosovo and Metohija is sovereign territory of Serbia.
AND if ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo and Metohija illegally steal, detach Serbian territory for themselves, then Serbia must regard this as an "occupation" and diplomatically never give up on getting her territory returned.
Kosovo and Metohija is whole and cannot be separated or partitioned because that would mean giving our monasteries, churches, graveyards, bishops, monks, female monahinje, clerics and all serbian nationals into a forced position of living in an Albanian state.
Serbian diaspora does not and should never accept Gracanica and Decani monasteries and their clerics to be living in an Albanian state. This the Russians understand and respect, however, US State Department and some EU members have no respect or comprehension of what is normal and proper conduct.
I won´t comment on your last contribution, since you do not even seem to know that Mr.Nikolic is not from the same party than the president of those former times mentioned.
but that´s the albanian way of argumentation: mix up things just the way they would serve you as an excuse for the greater-albanian ideology...
Anyone who is honest enough will admit the facts on the ground: Kosovo has since 1999 developed into 2 distinct and separate societies -- Serbian and Albanian. No matter how much the politicians may want to do window dressing, that's the true situation on the ground. Which neither UNMIK nor Nato could or dare prevent -- not unless they want to use force on unarmed civilians and become the new Milosevic in front of the entire world.
"3. This would also put Russia in a dilemna in that NATO forces in Kosovo is part of the UN resolution do they support a military action"
Clearly if the US and a "few" EU states act against serbia's sovereignity (as protected by UN laws and norms etc..) then these illegal (act of force) mean those troops from such states have no legality for their presence and should withdraw immedialtly otherwise they are in occupation against the UN resolution and against those others within NATO who do uphold 1244.
- clearly this is an internal NATO dillema too since it would pit NATO against itself!
What if hypothetically the Chinese and Russians insit that they must send a large contingent as part of the UN mission which maintains Serbia's sovereignity as an integral element of 1244 ?
Clearly they could maintain peace and international law and the "few" in NATO cannot act against this either ?
Under 1244 Russia would be not acting offensivly in anyway militarily but will be upholding the very law that some pretend gives them a right to partition the UN recognised, Sovereign, European and Democratic Republic of Serbia.
"Now that Serbs see that kosova's independence is inevitable, they want to get at least a part of it through partition.
But Kosova will not be partitioned at all, it will completely be INDEPENDENT.
(Afrim Hoxha, 14 January 2008 03:47) "
This independence will have to be OUTSIDE the UN. If you are happy with that, fine.
As for partition, there is already de facto partition on the ground. If you are emotionally unable to accept that, too bad.
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