Šutanovac: Serbia unlikely to join NATO

I hope Serbia won't ever join NATO. We need to be neutral in every military action that is not of our concern. Serbia needs to have its own army ready to preserve the borders and protect its citizens from possible attacks. Serbia needs to worry only for its own interests.

Serbia does not need NATO, don't sell Serbia

to jorge:

Even if Serbia isn't ready to join nato? So what. Why do we have to be ready in order to reject membership in nato? We are saying NO TO NATO PERIOD! It doesn't matter if at the moment we are ready or not. What is the purpose of nato? What are they doing in afghanistan? Can you tell me? It doesn't look like they are winning anything over there. In 99 nato launched the most cowardly attack on a soverign nation. So now to thank them for this we should say yes to NATO? Do you know that nato pilots were dropping their bombs in the Adriatic because they didn't want to go ahead with orders they were given - to bomb civillian targets? You think about that for a while. Jorge where is your logic in this? You say Jugoslavija wouldn't have been broken up if it was a NATO member... well jorge it wasn't Serbia who wanted to break up Jugoslavija, didn't you know that? We tried to keep it. There was so much propaganda against Serbia during the balkan wars, that it's really unbelievable. And now we should join NATO? Ya right.

Serbia should not feel compelled to join either NATO or the EU. There are many European countries that do not belong to either. Austria, Sweden and Finland do not belong to NATO, while Norway and Iceland are not a part of the EU. They countries enjoy some of the highest standards of living in the world. It has more to do with status than it does with actual benefit, if you ask me, though the EU would be good for Serbia, it is not essential. Neither is NATO, especially not after the bombing of civilian targets.

Croatia,Montenegro,Albania and Macedonia should become NATO members but Serbia and Bosnia should not.It will be up to NATO to fight the extremists in Macedonia,Montenegro and Kosovo once the KLA does not get its demands met.Greek and Romanian Special Forces should be stationed in the Serb areas of Kosovo to repel what are sure to be upcoming attacks.

I don't know what wasn't clear in my comment? I just oppose Serbia's joining in NATO or any military organization whether Serbia is ready or not. That has nothing to do with my pride. And btw since when "neutral" implies cold war?

@FlorinM
I think you have no clue on what you were saying in your comment. What Kosovo as being part of Serbia has to do with Serbia's joining in NATO and NATO's soldiers in Kosovo. Try to define more precisely.

NATO'S articles of association describe the aims
of the organization as
geared towards the defense of
its members. Serbia,Iraq and
Afganistan do no subscribe to
the above.

This does sound rather bizarre: neither NATO has any intention to have Serbia as a member nor does Serbia see itself as a NATO member. OK, we get it. Honestly.
Yet, day in and day out we are being chocked to death with some news on this subject.
Why?

I would disagree with you Jorge Garcia.

The Serbian army is more qualified to join then any other Balkan nation. Serbia actually has a army which I think sets us apart from Montenegro,Albania,Macedonia,Bosnia etc... who have next to nothing. In what regard would they benefit the alliance?

Its simply a matter of principle, NATO bombed NOT the army in 1999 but civilian infrastructure. Their failure to do any sort of damaged to the army failed miserably which is why they resorted to attacking national infrastructure and destroying the country economically rather than militarily, apart from the civilians...they got the military strike part of that deal....

Besides looking at Greece and Turkey who seem ready to jump at each others throat, I would not count on NATO to try and stop them, The Cyprus issue still needs resolving and it doesn't look like it will be any easier than Kosovo.

Clean Cut

Thanks for sharing that intelligent comment with us.

NATO is not a necessity for anybody, why should anybody want to ally with them? So they can follow the US into their stupid wars across the globe which only cost taxpayers more money, rather than, let's say, dealing with issues at home first?

I regret Poland joining NATO, our defense spending is as high as that of Russia, which means our taxes are higher, what do we get in return? Some pointless anti-missile base on our territory and our boys going off to die in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why Kosovo and Albania see NATO as such an incredible entity is beyond me.

The articles of association
desribe NATO as an organization geared to the
defense of its members when
attacked.
Serbia,Iraq and Afganistan,
to mention the recent cases,
do not subsribe to this view.

To SPC, bmrusila and the Rest of Serb camp.
You have to decide if Kosova is Serbia or is Kosova is Independent already. According to your postings I have a feeling that Kosova is not In Serbia but Independent. This is due to the fact that KFOR/NATO is already here. Now, if Kosova was Serbia than Serbia would have been in NATO automatically since NATO is in Kosova. I think that it is high time for all of Serbs in here to mature and look ahead not behind into dark days of Serbia

I totally agree with this guy. Serbia should never join NATO. There are much better states and organizations out there to be afiliated or connected to, especially for a country strongly European like Serbia. I am thinking Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Russia, Ghana, Mozambique, Pakistan, Venezuela, which have proven throughout their histories to treat their people wonderfully and their friends even better.

SPC and Brumsila, can you be a little bit more cliché with such shallow statements? First of all, NATO troops, if they do their job as expected are likely to be the defenders against paramilitary attacks in Serb areas of Kosovo. Plus, let me get it straight: you have all the countries bordering you with whom you have been at war, have had a territorial dispute, have or have had mistreated fellow Serbs, already in NATO or joining NATO in the eventual future, and you say you want to stay OUT of NATO? It doesn't smell like pride, only bitterness so terrible that it turns into neglect. It's a no-brainer that Yugoslavia would have never disintegrated if it had been in NATO. I disagree with NATO's actions in 1999 or its poor ROE in Kosovo during March 2004, but today the security situation is changing as NATO and countries are encouraged to mature and strive for peace ahead. This cannot be taken for granted. Serbia in NATO is not only good for Serbian security, it is a bedrock for perpetual peace in the Balkans. And for those that say that Serbia should be neutral, I will ask: neutral from what? Austria and Sweden have troops or officers in Kosovo or Afghanistan. Ireland has pledged to provide combat troops for EU battlegroups. Neutrality is a cold war word, at best empty in today's context, but usually very misleading. Finally, I'll add that Serbia isn't even ready to join NATO even if it wanted to, so at least try to qualify before saying you refuse entry.

Ratko, spare me the history lessons, please. You really don't get it. Let me tell you something to clarify: Today´s requirements for new countries joining NATO foremost include possessing an efficient, effective, and transparent military that is under civilian control. Why would any other country expect anything else? If Serbia can't qualify to join NATO, like Austria, Switzerland, Ireland or Sweden, then it means Serbia is giving its citizens a raw deal in terms of poor security, lack of democracy and poor use of tax money. NATO increasingly pushes new countries to meet ever growing standards in these fields. So to answer your question, that is why Serbia, whether it wants to join NATO or not, should at least have a decent-enough military to qualify. For your information, Serbia is actually making big improvements in its military, but NATO would consolidate these gains and push them even further. I probably share your thoughts on the NATO bombings in 1999, but the irony is that keeping Serbia out of NATO because of this only will continue to expose Serbia to further potential attacks, threats or provocations in the future. The security situation may be rosy now, but security, like good health should not be taken for granted. If you want to ever avoid a repeat of 1999, I coldly suggest that you reconsider your positions. You and I probably want the best for Serbia and its citizens, as well as for the region. By Serbia not joining NATO due to past bitter grudges, it will be an island without influence or say to define or veto international missions (let alone to protect it from aggression), and will only leave it vulnerable to the whims of any future members wishing to poke, provoke and humiliate Serbia.

A92, it seems you have your head in the early 1990's for gauging military capabilities. Organizationally, logistically, technologically, etc. I am not sure your opinion would hold up.
I agree with your assessment that NATO's performance against military targets was mixed and much poorer than had been expected. I was very disgusted by NATO's bombing of civilian targets, not to mention, how they bombed them. I am very with you there. Nevertheless, NATO eventually managed to make Serbia bend, and Serbia could not stop it. For as dedicated and patriotic as Serbs may be, Serbia is a small nation incapable of defending itself against such a strong force. In any case, NATO, can be credited for keeping countries like Greece and Turkey, despite occasional sabre rattling, from fighting or engaging in skirmishes and violent exchanges. If NATO can do that with Turkey and Greece, than it will surely work for the Balkan countries.

Ratko, there is a myth that serbia didnt break Yugoslavia apart. lets have a look at exactly what happened. Yugoslavia had 7 members in presidency. Milosevic cuts vojvodina and kosovo and puts his own man as their representatives...serbia has now 3 of the 7 votes. Montenegro was serbia's puppet....giving serbia 4 of the 7 votes in presidnecy...of course serbia wanted to retain yugoslavia because now it had power over other republcis...Now, would you want serbia to be in yugoslavia if for example Croatia had 4 of 7 votes in presidency? There is your history lesson and thats why there was so much support for the breakup

I totally agree with this guy. Serbia should never join NATO. There are much better states and organizations out there to be afiliated or connected to, especially for a country strongly European like Serbia. I am thinking Cuba, North Korea, Iran, Russia, Ghana, Mozambique, Pakistan, Venezuela, which have proven throughout their histories to treat their people wonderfully and their friends even better.

To SPC, bmrusila and the Rest of Serb camp.
You have to decide if Kosova is Serbia or is Kosova is Independent already. According to your postings I have a feeling that Kosova is not In Serbia but Independent. This is due to the fact that KFOR/NATO is already here. Now, if Kosova was Serbia than Serbia would have been in NATO automatically since NATO is in Kosova. I think that it is high time for all of Serbs in here to mature and look ahead not behind into dark days of Serbia

The articles of association
desribe NATO as an organization geared to the
defense of its members when
attacked.
Serbia,Iraq and Afganistan,
to mention the recent cases,
do not subsribe to this view.

Ratko, spare me the history lessons, please. You really don't get it. Let me tell you something to clarify: Today´s requirements for new countries joining NATO foremost include possessing an efficient, effective, and transparent military that is under civilian control. Why would any other country expect anything else? If Serbia can't qualify to join NATO, like Austria, Switzerland, Ireland or Sweden, then it means Serbia is giving its citizens a raw deal in terms of poor security, lack of democracy and poor use of tax money. NATO increasingly pushes new countries to meet ever growing standards in these fields. So to answer your question, that is why Serbia, whether it wants to join NATO or not, should at least have a decent-enough military to qualify. For your information, Serbia is actually making big improvements in its military, but NATO would consolidate these gains and push them even further. I probably share your thoughts on the NATO bombings in 1999, but the irony is that keeping Serbia out of NATO because of this only will continue to expose Serbia to further potential attacks, threats or provocations in the future. The security situation may be rosy now, but security, like good health should not be taken for granted. If you want to ever avoid a repeat of 1999, I coldly suggest that you reconsider your positions. You and I probably want the best for Serbia and its citizens, as well as for the region. By Serbia not joining NATO due to past bitter grudges, it will be an island without influence or say to define or veto international missions (let alone to protect it from aggression), and will only leave it vulnerable to the whims of any future members wishing to poke, provoke and humiliate Serbia.

NATO'S articles of association describe the aims
of the organization as
geared towards the defense of
its members. Serbia,Iraq and
Afganistan do no subscribe to
the above.

SPC and Brumsila, can you be a little bit more cliché with such shallow statements? First of all, NATO troops, if they do their job as expected are likely to be the defenders against paramilitary attacks in Serb areas of Kosovo. Plus, let me get it straight: you have all the countries bordering you with whom you have been at war, have had a territorial dispute, have or have had mistreated fellow Serbs, already in NATO or joining NATO in the eventual future, and you say you want to stay OUT of NATO? It doesn't smell like pride, only bitterness so terrible that it turns into neglect. It's a no-brainer that Yugoslavia would have never disintegrated if it had been in NATO. I disagree with NATO's actions in 1999 or its poor ROE in Kosovo during March 2004, but today the security situation is changing as NATO and countries are encouraged to mature and strive for peace ahead. This cannot be taken for granted. Serbia in NATO is not only good for Serbian security, it is a bedrock for perpetual peace in the Balkans. And for those that say that Serbia should be neutral, I will ask: neutral from what? Austria and Sweden have troops or officers in Kosovo or Afghanistan. Ireland has pledged to provide combat troops for EU battlegroups. Neutrality is a cold war word, at best empty in today's context, but usually very misleading. Finally, I'll add that Serbia isn't even ready to join NATO even if it wanted to, so at least try to qualify before saying you refuse entry.

Serbia does not need NATO, don't sell Serbia

I hope Serbia won't ever join NATO. We need to be neutral in every military action that is not of our concern. Serbia needs to have its own army ready to preserve the borders and protect its citizens from possible attacks. Serbia needs to worry only for its own interests.

Croatia,Montenegro,Albania and Macedonia should become NATO members but Serbia and Bosnia should not.It will be up to NATO to fight the extremists in Macedonia,Montenegro and Kosovo once the KLA does not get its demands met.Greek and Romanian Special Forces should be stationed in the Serb areas of Kosovo to repel what are sure to be upcoming attacks.

This does sound rather bizarre: neither NATO has any intention to have Serbia as a member nor does Serbia see itself as a NATO member. OK, we get it. Honestly.
Yet, day in and day out we are being chocked to death with some news on this subject.
Why?

I would disagree with you Jorge Garcia.

The Serbian army is more qualified to join then any other Balkan nation. Serbia actually has a army which I think sets us apart from Montenegro,Albania,Macedonia,Bosnia etc... who have next to nothing. In what regard would they benefit the alliance?

Its simply a matter of principle, NATO bombed NOT the army in 1999 but civilian infrastructure. Their failure to do any sort of damaged to the army failed miserably which is why they resorted to attacking national infrastructure and destroying the country economically rather than militarily, apart from the civilians...they got the military strike part of that deal....

Besides looking at Greece and Turkey who seem ready to jump at each others throat, I would not count on NATO to try and stop them, The Cyprus issue still needs resolving and it doesn't look like it will be any easier than Kosovo.

A92, it seems you have your head in the early 1990's for gauging military capabilities. Organizationally, logistically, technologically, etc. I am not sure your opinion would hold up.
I agree with your assessment that NATO's performance against military targets was mixed and much poorer than had been expected. I was very disgusted by NATO's bombing of civilian targets, not to mention, how they bombed them. I am very with you there. Nevertheless, NATO eventually managed to make Serbia bend, and Serbia could not stop it. For as dedicated and patriotic as Serbs may be, Serbia is a small nation incapable of defending itself against such a strong force. In any case, NATO, can be credited for keeping countries like Greece and Turkey, despite occasional sabre rattling, from fighting or engaging in skirmishes and violent exchanges. If NATO can do that with Turkey and Greece, than it will surely work for the Balkan countries.

Ratko, there is a myth that serbia didnt break Yugoslavia apart. lets have a look at exactly what happened. Yugoslavia had 7 members in presidency. Milosevic cuts vojvodina and kosovo and puts his own man as their representatives...serbia has now 3 of the 7 votes. Montenegro was serbia's puppet....giving serbia 4 of the 7 votes in presidnecy...of course serbia wanted to retain yugoslavia because now it had power over other republcis...Now, would you want serbia to be in yugoslavia if for example Croatia had 4 of 7 votes in presidency? There is your history lesson and thats why there was so much support for the breakup

Serbia should not feel compelled to join either NATO or the EU. There are many European countries that do not belong to either. Austria, Sweden and Finland do not belong to NATO, while Norway and Iceland are not a part of the EU. They countries enjoy some of the highest standards of living in the world. It has more to do with status than it does with actual benefit, if you ask me, though the EU would be good for Serbia, it is not essential. Neither is NATO, especially not after the bombing of civilian targets.

to jorge:

Even if Serbia isn't ready to join nato? So what. Why do we have to be ready in order to reject membership in nato? We are saying NO TO NATO PERIOD! It doesn't matter if at the moment we are ready or not. What is the purpose of nato? What are they doing in afghanistan? Can you tell me? It doesn't look like they are winning anything over there. In 99 nato launched the most cowardly attack on a soverign nation. So now to thank them for this we should say yes to NATO? Do you know that nato pilots were dropping their bombs in the Adriatic because they didn't want to go ahead with orders they were given - to bomb civillian targets? You think about that for a while. Jorge where is your logic in this? You say Jugoslavija wouldn't have been broken up if it was a NATO member... well jorge it wasn't Serbia who wanted to break up Jugoslavija, didn't you know that? We tried to keep it. There was so much propaganda against Serbia during the balkan wars, that it's really unbelievable. And now we should join NATO? Ya right.

I don't know what wasn't clear in my comment? I just oppose Serbia's joining in NATO or any military organization whether Serbia is ready or not. That has nothing to do with my pride. And btw since when "neutral" implies cold war?

@FlorinM
I think you have no clue on what you were saying in your comment. What Kosovo as being part of Serbia has to do with Serbia's joining in NATO and NATO's soldiers in Kosovo. Try to define more precisely.

Clean Cut

Thanks for sharing that intelligent comment with us.

NATO is not a necessity for anybody, why should anybody want to ally with them? So they can follow the US into their stupid wars across the globe which only cost taxpayers more money, rather than, let's say, dealing with issues at home first?

I regret Poland joining NATO, our defense spending is as high as that of Russia, which means our taxes are higher, what do we get in return? Some pointless anti-missile base on our territory and our boys going off to die in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why Kosovo and Albania see NATO as such an incredible entity is beyond me.