"Serbia doing best to achieve full cooperation"

This is Holland, the country that doesn't make sex with minors (paedophilia, in other words) illegal? And they are taking some high moral stance? They should sort out their own perverted domestic laws before telling anyone else what to do.

Regardless of what this man is saying it seem that Serbia's signing of SAA is very much related to Kosovo status. This is only a trap in order to soften Serbia's stand on Kosovo. By this decision it only makes easier way for Serbia to stay consistent in its decision and find way out from the possible EU joining. Speaking of the cooperation with Hague, Serbia has done very much already on that issue and there is no need to use Hague as an excuse any longer. We all know if Serbia makes moves towards Kosovo that would please the EU the Hague cooperation would be forgotten soon after. But why would Serbia change its stand since Kosovo belongs to Serbia. There is no country in this world that would agree on desecration and dismembering.

If Holland continues with this stance it won't be long before the US tells them to shut up! Or else...

Holland is not beyond American bulling and if that does not work then the UK, and France will gang up on Holland. Who is Holland to speak out like this and upset American policy in the EU?

And this is the club all these poor little European countries are lining up to join? What a joke.

The Serb civil casualties of the illegal NATO bombing were about 2,000.
Was any responsible for this brought to Hague?
If i remember correctly Holland endorsed the bombing, so is its (whoever) PM/MoD behind bars?
Or is it double standards again as usual?

Mr. Isufi,

You don't have a country and never will on that land, (which is not yours), merely a majority in a province.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

NO INDEPENDENCE, NO ILLEGAL US PUPPET STATE IN SERBIA, NO NATO OR EU.

I'd hate for Serbia to sell it's soul - especially since it's facing thieves stealing it physically in KOCOBO I METOXUJA in the first place. And we should join them??? So maybe we can also be accomplice to the systematic injustice conducted in future against some other poor sovereign nation which happens to be invaluable geographically. NO THANK YOU!

It's in Holland's best interest to be in this position based on their population. With regard to Belgium - we all know that this is a puppet extension of the American government so no love lost here.

By the way - how many promises that bush made to albania have come through since his visit to Tirana?

Pyrros

Also true. NATO misconducted their bombing strikes, killing innocent civilians in the process. It is no better.

Gee, I wonder why Holland is so adamant against Serbia signing this SAA with the EU? Could it be to hopefully put all the blame on Mladic, and have their soldiers, whom they gave medals to, exhonerated from the law suits and accusations of standing by and doing nothing in the face of horrendous military conflicts? The EU is not a union, it is individual states lloking after themselves, but hoping to gain economically from this corrupt alliance. Who needs their dirt?

Well done Holland, I'm glad that the decision must be reached by consensus, so that Holland will block such a catastrophic outcome. I'm tired of seeing European countries trying to please and boost politicians like Boris Tadic, who keep cheating the whole international community. If they don't arrest Mladic, I don't see why whe should help them win another poll. Better to have plain nationalists like the Radicals than disguised nationalists like the DS.

No doubt about it the Dutch should not allow it they had front row seats and witnessed first hand of the Serbs murderous killing spree of 8,000 unarmed Srebnica civilian in Bosnia. Mladic and his Serbian troops broke every rule of the Geneva convention & international law. But that was not the first time Mladic and his Serbs did that it was in Croatian Krajina region where he had 80,000 Croatians also others from their homes brutally cleansed and had 3,000 unarmed civilians murdered their in cold blood. Prime Minister Kostunica has given him shelter in Serbia because he dos not believe Serbian citizens or Serbs should be tried by the international court. They should lean on Serbia hard just as they did to Croatia where the last Croatian fugitive Gotovina was tracked down to Spain by the Croatian Intelligence Agency.

Milosevic had plently of chances and warning that could have prevented both the bombing and the loss of Kosovo but always took the arrogant stance. Nowdays the politicians are even passing resolutions as if the UN Secuirty Council is based in Belgrade.

True, as many have stated the European Union does not "Need" Serbia. However, their companies sure don't mind sticking their hands into Serbian companies pockets. I guess their ideology is "We should all shun Serbia and turn the other cheek to them until they catch "war criminals", but lets make a buck off of their crippled economy while we're at it.

Swiss company Holcim bought 70% of Serbian cement works
U.S. company Merrill Lynch buys so much stock in "MPC Properties" they won't even disclose the amount Americanizing Serbia with shopping malls vs beautiful downtowns. Something America does not have.
U.S. Company General Motors buys out Zastava and uses their factory to make Opel Cars.
Netherland's company Heineken buys out MB.

I am for some privatization in Serbia as it would greatly bennifit. (noting that I don't agree with all the parties making purchases)
My point is simply that the EU is willing and WANTING to do business in Serbia because of all it's potential. So please E.U. waive a Snickers bar in front of Del Ponte and thrown it into the Danube in hopes she will fallow so you can finally give Serbia what it should have been given a long time ago, E.U. membership.

I had easily anticipated that kind of statement in a previous comment.
Unfortuinately for Serbian people, EU does not need Serbia.

Well i guess they still remember the war in Bosnia(Srebrenica),when Mladic did what he did,and maybe Holland wants it's APC-s(armored personal carriers) back.The ones that were taken in Srebrenica from dutch army.
So much for joining EU....

This is very interesting that both countries are ready to recognize Kosova'a Independence once our govermant declares it, but they are not ready to sign SAA with Serbia before conditions are met.

Peter,

Bravo! I am impressed by your courageous and correct stand concerning Mladic.
Yes "Srebenica was unacceptable and cannot go unpunished".

I'd say Holland is doing Serbia a favour. Only when the path is clear to EU integration will there be a real threat of Serbia joining. As long as obstacles exist, membership is less likely.

However, I'd say Del Ponte was removed specifically to clear the path. It seems the EU/US is quite desperate to get Serbia onboard.

Lenard,

"…Dutch…..had front row seats and witnessed first hand…."

Yes, they were so close that only casualty on a Dutch side was killed by the Muslims. Many Dutch solders declared later that they were much more afraid of Muslim "civilians", (who armed to the teeth went each night to burn and pelage Serb villages in the area), then Serb solders. Dutch highest commanding officer in a charge of the mission, stated publicly for the Dutch TV, that during his mandate, Muslim troops from Srebrenica under the command of N. Oric destroyed tens of Serb villages and committed a lots of atrocities against Serb civilians.

"…..Serbs murderous killing spree of 8,000 unarmed Srebnica civilian…."

Naser Oric had up to 10 000 troops in Srebrenica. They were few years involved in more or less constant fighting. Culmination was when enclave fell. Oric's troops refused to surrender, and fought their way out in direction of Tuzla. Fighting lasted for more then two weeks, many casualties fell on both sides. It seems that figure of 8 000 is total lose of life on the Muslim side over a period of couple of years. It includes death of natural causes, collateral damage, military casualties in a fighting and victims of war crimes. How many exactly are war crimes, is still not clear.

"This is Holland, the country that doesn't make sex with minors (paedophilia, in other words) illegal? And they are taking some high moral stance? They should sort out their own perverted domestic laws before telling anyone else what to do.
(Nikola, 9 January 2008 13:59)

- Bravo Nikola! Keep up the good work!

Harry,

"I am suprised there are no Serbs commenting here and asking for Kosovo back before signing any agreements. Seems like they dont agree with Kostunica said."

Of course we wont to keep our land and we support Kostunica. We made it clear many times, no need to keep repeating what is self-evident.

Olf,

"So, can any of Serbs in here tell me what Serbia wants. You say NO to everything. What would you say yes to?"

Our country must stay intact. We would join EU as an equal member with a full rights. If EU wants as a second rate member with all kinds of restrictions and if they expect us to surrender our national interests and suverenity to the will of US and few big European countries, we are not interested.

Whether or not this is a precondition to join the EU or not, is not important, the most important thing is that Mladic goes to the Hague and is tried. Srebrenica was unacceptable and cannot go unpunished.

I don't even think that the SAA and Mladic should be linked, special forces should be allowed to go in and deal with Mladic themselves if Serbia is unable to had him over.

In this world of the righteous, Kosovo Albanians point their fingers at full Hague cooperation while Serbs point their fingers at Standards before Status.

Both of them sing "we would if we only could".

So, can any of Serbs in here tell me what Serbia wants. You say NO to everything. What would you say yes to?

I am suprised there are no Serbs commenting here and asking for Kosovo back before signing any agreements. Seems like they dont agree with Kostunica said.

There are 10 years that you are doing your best... come on.. or you are doing little or your are lying... and there are still countries in EU that are ready to by-pass this.. and you are still complaining from EU because it tales you that Kosova was awarded to you kept facedly by you and now that is not anymore possible.

to Olf,

We would say yes to INDEPENDENT serbia.
EU sucks, in anyway everybody will be stable one day so we will be able to travel thou EU and trade.
We are allready a part of CEFTA so as much for the trade for the moment.

Joining EU would bring alot of negative things too. Im from belgrade and i know that many serbs finish universities for the professions that you cant find a work in serbia. So many would go to other countries.
I DONT WANNA SEE MY FRIENDS ALL AROUND EU JUST CAUSE OF THE WORK.

I dont see why Serbia should give up it self to EU.
Why should we join it? For money?

I have one question regarding Srebrenica. What was Mladic doing if he knew very well that Serbian villages were getting attacked by Oric? Either he wasnt interested in defending them or he was "busy" elsewhere. Marching in srebrenica on one day, taking unarmed civilians or troops and murdering them is definately not "defending". Where were they before then? who exactly were they defeding elsewhere?

Same with other areas throughout the war, there are many examples of serb army being interested in achieving "political goals" like pure greater serbia and not defending their own people. eg. another example in Krajina...army abandoned weapons and left before the civilians. No wonder the operation lasted 4 days. On top of that the male civilians from Kosovo en route to serbia were forced under gunpoint to join RS army.

I find it amazing that these guys are seen as heros, but they failed in whatever they claim they were doing/protecting, committed atrocities on unarmed civilians and POW's and war only stopped when they were pushed aside. In addition they treated serbs like animals if it was necessary to achieve the political goals. There is no heroism there anywhere.

Dino,

If you want to understand what went on in Srebrenica, you should begin with studying the map of the area. Notice the ruggedness of terrain, dispersed and remoteness of many small villages absence of good roads…. Notice also that that is eastern part of Bosnia, near to the Serbia. Because of proximity of Serbia, it is strategically very important. In very early stages of the war, Muslims Government tried to get complete control of this area and cut territorial connection of the Serbs from Bosnia with a Serbia. There were efforts to change demographics of that part of the republic ,by settling Muslims from Sandzak and Turkey. SDA armed local population, organized armed groups and started attacking Serbs. Naser Oric was sent to lead the war. Considerable resources were concentrated in Srebrenica.
Local Serb population was also armed and organized local militias. As a war progressed, Srebrenica was in very early stage totally cleansed from its Serb population. Bosnian Serb Army was in the area. Most of the members were local people. They did what they could to stop Muslim attacks, but it was no easy task. They were outnumbered by the Muslims. As in the rest of the Bosnia, Serbs had an advantage in heavy weapons but disadvantage in the number of solders.. Muslims in Srebrenica wisely choosed to fight guerilla war. They new terrain very well, were well equipped for the sort of fighting they have choosen. Most of their hit and run attacs happened during the night. After actions, they just took refuge in Srebrenica, “safe haven”. where they were protected by UN troops. So these are the reasons that Serb Army could not compeltly stop Muslim attacs.
As for the Krajina, “International Community put a tremendous pressure on Srbija not to get involved in Krajina.

This is very interesting that both countries are ready to recognize Kosova'a Independence once our govermant declares it, but they are not ready to sign SAA with Serbia before conditions are met.

Well done Holland, I'm glad that the decision must be reached by consensus, so that Holland will block such a catastrophic outcome. I'm tired of seeing European countries trying to please and boost politicians like Boris Tadic, who keep cheating the whole international community. If they don't arrest Mladic, I don't see why whe should help them win another poll. Better to have plain nationalists like the Radicals than disguised nationalists like the DS.

No doubt about it the Dutch should not allow it they had front row seats and witnessed first hand of the Serbs murderous killing spree of 8,000 unarmed Srebnica civilian in Bosnia. Mladic and his Serbian troops broke every rule of the Geneva convention & international law. But that was not the first time Mladic and his Serbs did that it was in Croatian Krajina region where he had 80,000 Croatians also others from their homes brutally cleansed and had 3,000 unarmed civilians murdered their in cold blood. Prime Minister Kostunica has given him shelter in Serbia because he dos not believe Serbian citizens or Serbs should be tried by the international court. They should lean on Serbia hard just as they did to Croatia where the last Croatian fugitive Gotovina was tracked down to Spain by the Croatian Intelligence Agency.

I had easily anticipated that kind of statement in a previous comment.
Unfortuinately for Serbian people, EU does not need Serbia.

Well i guess they still remember the war in Bosnia(Srebrenica),when Mladic did what he did,and maybe Holland wants it's APC-s(armored personal carriers) back.The ones that were taken in Srebrenica from dutch army.
So much for joining EU....

There are 10 years that you are doing your best... come on.. or you are doing little or your are lying... and there are still countries in EU that are ready to by-pass this.. and you are still complaining from EU because it tales you that Kosova was awarded to you kept facedly by you and now that is not anymore possible.

I am suprised there are no Serbs commenting here and asking for Kosovo back before signing any agreements. Seems like they dont agree with Kostunica said.

Whether or not this is a precondition to join the EU or not, is not important, the most important thing is that Mladic goes to the Hague and is tried. Srebrenica was unacceptable and cannot go unpunished.

I don't even think that the SAA and Mladic should be linked, special forces should be allowed to go in and deal with Mladic themselves if Serbia is unable to had him over.

So, can any of Serbs in here tell me what Serbia wants. You say NO to everything. What would you say yes to?

Peter,

Bravo! I am impressed by your courageous and correct stand concerning Mladic.
Yes "Srebenica was unacceptable and cannot go unpunished".

Milosevic had plently of chances and warning that could have prevented both the bombing and the loss of Kosovo but always took the arrogant stance. Nowdays the politicians are even passing resolutions as if the UN Secuirty Council is based in Belgrade.

Regardless of what this man is saying it seem that Serbia's signing of SAA is very much related to Kosovo status. This is only a trap in order to soften Serbia's stand on Kosovo. By this decision it only makes easier way for Serbia to stay consistent in its decision and find way out from the possible EU joining. Speaking of the cooperation with Hague, Serbia has done very much already on that issue and there is no need to use Hague as an excuse any longer. We all know if Serbia makes moves towards Kosovo that would please the EU the Hague cooperation would be forgotten soon after. But why would Serbia change its stand since Kosovo belongs to Serbia. There is no country in this world that would agree on desecration and dismembering.

This is Holland, the country that doesn't make sex with minors (paedophilia, in other words) illegal? And they are taking some high moral stance? They should sort out their own perverted domestic laws before telling anyone else what to do.

Pyrros

Also true. NATO misconducted their bombing strikes, killing innocent civilians in the process. It is no better.

If Holland continues with this stance it won't be long before the US tells them to shut up! Or else...

Holland is not beyond American bulling and if that does not work then the UK, and France will gang up on Holland. Who is Holland to speak out like this and upset American policy in the EU?

And this is the club all these poor little European countries are lining up to join? What a joke.

It's in Holland's best interest to be in this position based on their population. With regard to Belgium - we all know that this is a puppet extension of the American government so no love lost here.

By the way - how many promises that bush made to albania have come through since his visit to Tirana?

The Serb civil casualties of the illegal NATO bombing were about 2,000.
Was any responsible for this brought to Hague?
If i remember correctly Holland endorsed the bombing, so is its (whoever) PM/MoD behind bars?
Or is it double standards again as usual?

Mr. Isufi,

You don't have a country and never will on that land, (which is not yours), merely a majority in a province.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

NO INDEPENDENCE, NO ILLEGAL US PUPPET STATE IN SERBIA, NO NATO OR EU.

I'd hate for Serbia to sell it's soul - especially since it's facing thieves stealing it physically in KOCOBO I METOXUJA in the first place. And we should join them??? So maybe we can also be accomplice to the systematic injustice conducted in future against some other poor sovereign nation which happens to be invaluable geographically. NO THANK YOU!

In this world of the righteous, Kosovo Albanians point their fingers at full Hague cooperation while Serbs point their fingers at Standards before Status.

Both of them sing "we would if we only could".

"This is Holland, the country that doesn't make sex with minors (paedophilia, in other words) illegal? And they are taking some high moral stance? They should sort out their own perverted domestic laws before telling anyone else what to do.
(Nikola, 9 January 2008 13:59)

- Bravo Nikola! Keep up the good work!

I have one question regarding Srebrenica. What was Mladic doing if he knew very well that Serbian villages were getting attacked by Oric? Either he wasnt interested in defending them or he was "busy" elsewhere. Marching in srebrenica on one day, taking unarmed civilians or troops and murdering them is definately not "defending". Where were they before then? who exactly were they defeding elsewhere?

Same with other areas throughout the war, there are many examples of serb army being interested in achieving "political goals" like pure greater serbia and not defending their own people. eg. another example in Krajina...army abandoned weapons and left before the civilians. No wonder the operation lasted 4 days. On top of that the male civilians from Kosovo en route to serbia were forced under gunpoint to join RS army.

I find it amazing that these guys are seen as heros, but they failed in whatever they claim they were doing/protecting, committed atrocities on unarmed civilians and POW's and war only stopped when they were pushed aside. In addition they treated serbs like animals if it was necessary to achieve the political goals. There is no heroism there anywhere.

Gee, I wonder why Holland is so adamant against Serbia signing this SAA with the EU? Could it be to hopefully put all the blame on Mladic, and have their soldiers, whom they gave medals to, exhonerated from the law suits and accusations of standing by and doing nothing in the face of horrendous military conflicts? The EU is not a union, it is individual states lloking after themselves, but hoping to gain economically from this corrupt alliance. Who needs their dirt?

True, as many have stated the European Union does not "Need" Serbia. However, their companies sure don't mind sticking their hands into Serbian companies pockets. I guess their ideology is "We should all shun Serbia and turn the other cheek to them until they catch "war criminals", but lets make a buck off of their crippled economy while we're at it.

Swiss company Holcim bought 70% of Serbian cement works
U.S. company Merrill Lynch buys so much stock in "MPC Properties" they won't even disclose the amount Americanizing Serbia with shopping malls vs beautiful downtowns. Something America does not have.
U.S. Company General Motors buys out Zastava and uses their factory to make Opel Cars.
Netherland's company Heineken buys out MB.

I am for some privatization in Serbia as it would greatly bennifit. (noting that I don't agree with all the parties making purchases)
My point is simply that the EU is willing and WANTING to do business in Serbia because of all it's potential. So please E.U. waive a Snickers bar in front of Del Ponte and thrown it into the Danube in hopes she will fallow so you can finally give Serbia what it should have been given a long time ago, E.U. membership.

I'd say Holland is doing Serbia a favour. Only when the path is clear to EU integration will there be a real threat of Serbia joining. As long as obstacles exist, membership is less likely.

However, I'd say Del Ponte was removed specifically to clear the path. It seems the EU/US is quite desperate to get Serbia onboard.

I dont see why Serbia should give up it self to EU.
Why should we join it? For money?

to Olf,

We would say yes to INDEPENDENT serbia.
EU sucks, in anyway everybody will be stable one day so we will be able to travel thou EU and trade.
We are allready a part of CEFTA so as much for the trade for the moment.

Joining EU would bring alot of negative things too. Im from belgrade and i know that many serbs finish universities for the professions that you cant find a work in serbia. So many would go to other countries.
I DONT WANNA SEE MY FRIENDS ALL AROUND EU JUST CAUSE OF THE WORK.

Lenard,

"…Dutch…..had front row seats and witnessed first hand…."

Yes, they were so close that only casualty on a Dutch side was killed by the Muslims. Many Dutch solders declared later that they were much more afraid of Muslim "civilians", (who armed to the teeth went each night to burn and pelage Serb villages in the area), then Serb solders. Dutch highest commanding officer in a charge of the mission, stated publicly for the Dutch TV, that during his mandate, Muslim troops from Srebrenica under the command of N. Oric destroyed tens of Serb villages and committed a lots of atrocities against Serb civilians.

"…..Serbs murderous killing spree of 8,000 unarmed Srebnica civilian…."

Naser Oric had up to 10 000 troops in Srebrenica. They were few years involved in more or less constant fighting. Culmination was when enclave fell. Oric's troops refused to surrender, and fought their way out in direction of Tuzla. Fighting lasted for more then two weeks, many casualties fell on both sides. It seems that figure of 8 000 is total lose of life on the Muslim side over a period of couple of years. It includes death of natural causes, collateral damage, military casualties in a fighting and victims of war crimes. How many exactly are war crimes, is still not clear.

Harry,

"I am suprised there are no Serbs commenting here and asking for Kosovo back before signing any agreements. Seems like they dont agree with Kostunica said."

Of course we wont to keep our land and we support Kostunica. We made it clear many times, no need to keep repeating what is self-evident.

Olf,

"So, can any of Serbs in here tell me what Serbia wants. You say NO to everything. What would you say yes to?"

Our country must stay intact. We would join EU as an equal member with a full rights. If EU wants as a second rate member with all kinds of restrictions and if they expect us to surrender our national interests and suverenity to the will of US and few big European countries, we are not interested.

Dino,

If you want to understand what went on in Srebrenica, you should begin with studying the map of the area. Notice the ruggedness of terrain, dispersed and remoteness of many small villages absence of good roads…. Notice also that that is eastern part of Bosnia, near to the Serbia. Because of proximity of Serbia, it is strategically very important. In very early stages of the war, Muslims Government tried to get complete control of this area and cut territorial connection of the Serbs from Bosnia with a Serbia. There were efforts to change demographics of that part of the republic ,by settling Muslims from Sandzak and Turkey. SDA armed local population, organized armed groups and started attacking Serbs. Naser Oric was sent to lead the war. Considerable resources were concentrated in Srebrenica.
Local Serb population was also armed and organized local militias. As a war progressed, Srebrenica was in very early stage totally cleansed from its Serb population. Bosnian Serb Army was in the area. Most of the members were local people. They did what they could to stop Muslim attacks, but it was no easy task. They were outnumbered by the Muslims. As in the rest of the Bosnia, Serbs had an advantage in heavy weapons but disadvantage in the number of solders.. Muslims in Srebrenica wisely choosed to fight guerilla war. They new terrain very well, were well equipped for the sort of fighting they have choosen. Most of their hit and run attacs happened during the night. After actions, they just took refuge in Srebrenica, “safe haven”. where they were protected by UN troops. So these are the reasons that Serb Army could not compeltly stop Muslim attacs.
As for the Krajina, “International Community put a tremendous pressure on Srbija not to get involved in Krajina.