Dispute brewing over German presence in Kosovo

As far as I am concerned Germany should not be allowed to have an army, period. For at least a great many years.
This is absolutely insanity since Nazi Germany was the first to try and cleanse the Serbs from Kosovo by establishing the SS Skenderbeg division to help Greater Albania.

Clearly some things never change.

Well, this says it all. You recognise what you like, but if you do, you must do so with your troops out of that particular area, why, because it would be deemed ilegal first and formost. The foreign troops would be looked upon in the eyes of international law as an occupying force with no legitimacy trying to uphold an illegitimate case for independance. Hence why the U.S. and the E.U. are desperate, I'll say it again, desperate for Serbias co-operation and signature to make this legal.

Um, didn't the last time Germany sent troops into an area without any international mandate or approval cause World War II?

Steinmeier needs to read up a little on his country's history.

"If Germany should not be allowed to have an army for what they did in the WWII what criteria should we put for Serbian army after the good job hey did in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?

Just something for you to think about!"

Blero,

How dare you even compare the crimes committed by the Nazi Germany Wehrmacht and SS in occupied territories and in Germany itself to partly unproven crimes committed by the Yugoslav and Serbian army (not to mention the Croation and Bosnian armies and the KLA as well). Even suggesting that shows a complete lack of historical knowledge. Germany can have an army as far as I am concerned, but they should stay out of certain countries because of still recent historical reasons. Zoran's understandable response says it all. Maybe the US should send some GI's to Vietnam and see what happens then or France some troops to Algeria.

The German military presence in Serbia, Bosnia and the Bombing of Serbia by the German air force in 99 should make the world shutter in horror! Where is the outrage? Does anyone remember what Germany and their allies (Croatia, Albania, Hungary, Slavic Muslims) did to the Serbs in WWI & II? What would happen if Germany bombed Israel and then sent troops? Why is this all suddenly OK, because Germany is a democracy? Hitler was elected in a "democratic" election.

This article confirms what I have said in the past, don't count on the Germans to support Illegal Independence and if the Germans don't go on board neither will their puppet follower Italy.

Sooner or later this kind of internal pressure from within one's government will also happen in the UK and especially France.

So not only are the Germans intent on trampling on international law, they're riding roughshod over their own domestic law also. Some democrats.

I read something about a country in this article,...what are they talking about?

don´t they know that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, and cannot be a "country"?

well, they will learn it, that´s for sure.

"have never heard about SS Skenderbeg division... it seams that some historical "truths" are known only to serbians...
(ben, 7 January 2008 16:40)"

it´s so easy to disqualify yourself as an Albanian...

you don´t know anything about your real history, except that illyrian nonsense they are teaching you in koha or other cheap yellow-press papers...

how about checking it in the net, you will not have any difficulties to find a lot of pictures and documents about albanian Nazi´s!

When did the Serbian army invade Slovenia,Croatia and Bosnia? Oh ya never... especially since the Serbian army was reintroduced in 2006.

So much for blaming the Serbian army, you can't even tell who was fighting in the last decade Blero.

Face the facts Kosovo is Serbia and no amount of Germany's will change that. Personally they can stay if they like, their just blowing their money away and endangering their troops.

I served with members of German KFOR during my time in Kosovo. Germany can have an Army, this is all nonsense. I make the same arguments in support of Serbia that we (the United States and western Europe) should not do the same thing we did to the Serbs that we did to the Germans after WWI.

Granted the German Army and KFOR as a whole failed during the occupation of Kosovo, namely in the immediate aftermath of the missions deployment and during March 04, but that is politics and not soldiers. I have friends in the German Army who have served bravely in Afghanistan and beyond, all soldiers have things in common it is politics in the way. I know this to be true when I shared Guinness with the Irish at Clarke in Lipjan, Becks with 'ze' Germans in Prizren or rakija with the Serbs on a administrative boundary line coordination meeting in Vranje. The way forward for Serbia is a sort of Marshall plan after WWII. We should not punish Serbia like the Versailles treaty, this stands only to embolden radical elements of its society and hamper the noble efforts of its western thinking leaders.

And on another topic the 21st Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Skanderbeg did exist, it is a matter of historical fact. Just because the Serbs are the only people to recognize does not make it true. The same can be said for 1244 . . . just because we wrongfully ignore it and trample on it does not mean it does not exists nor does it mean it is not binding.

I have never heard about SS Skenderbeg division... it seams that some historical "truths" are known only to serbians...

Clearly some things never change.
(Vuk, 7 January 2008 15:39)


If Germany should not be allowed to have an army for what they did in the WWII what criteria should we put for Serbian army after the good job hey did in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?

Just something for you to think about!

And yes, you are right, clearly some things never change.
Serbia will never stop with their nationalistic approach when Kosovo is concerned.
But you know what, since 1999 (when Serbian army, police and paramilitaries were forced out of Kosovo) that does not really matter does it.
The facts on the ground are clear.

I wish you luck with your “No German Army” petition.

Clearly some things never change.
(Vuk, 7 January 2008 15:39)


- I agree with this sentence 100%

Whether German troops are in Kosovo or not will not affect the end result. Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again.

Blero, let's clear the vision blurred by years of vicious propaganda by looking at the facts - It seems that most of Albanians on the forum claim that their nation is a victim of centuries of Serb persecution and Genocide!? - During Ottoman rule, Serbs where Christian "raja" without any rights. Muslim Albanians where privileged, had all political, administrative and military power on provincial level. How could Serbs in such situation persecute Albanians? Wasn't that other way around maybe?

Enter the nineties. According to you, Serbs are the bad gays of the civil war, and all the other sides in the conflict, Slovens, Croats, Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims, are peaceful, freedom loving innocent victims. Yet, all these, with exemption of Serbia, created mono ethnic states by expulsion of their minorities. Only Serbia is still multi-ethnic and number of minorities didn't change significantly before, during and after the war. (Mind you, even number of Albanians living in Serbia proper is considerable, even in Belgrade. So much for Albanian claim that we cannot live together). Serbia has biggest number of refuges in Europe, about 1 000 000 Serbs, victims of ethnical cleansing in the newly formed states.

How can it be that nation claimed to be a victim of the genocide rapidly grows in numbers while nation claimed to be a persecutor shrinks? Something is not right here.

Blero, You are so righteous. So let's go after all the criminals.
How about we start with KLA?
Until recently they were classified as a terrorist organisation. The only reason they are no longer on that list is because it doesn't suit the US to keep them there.
How about we deal with your leaders (the former KLA) for starters?
It is so easy to point fingers and blame your opposition but never see the crimes commited by your own people.
War is brutal and bloody. Everyone kills and nobody has clean hands. Let's not keep going over the same old propaganda how Serbia attacked everyone.
Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Krajina and Bosnia. Did you forget that?
Did you forget Croatian planes flying over fleeing refugees from Krajina and firing on them?
Ethnically cleansing was not good enough, they had to try to exterminate them.
Yes,let's talk about all the crimes commited. Not just the Serbian crimes, but ALL the crimes.
Don't tell me that all those Serbs killed and expelled from their homes are criminals and had to be dealt with. Who takes responsibility for Serbian suffering and casualties?
Serbia did it to their own people I suppose.

How dare you compare Serbia to Nazi Germany. We had a civil war situation in the '90s, not genocide of Nazi Germany and occupation of other countries.

Blero,

I agree with you that a crime is a crime and I do not think that Germans should feel responsible for what their grandfathers did (as long as they do not forget and be more modest in their attitude towards certain countries). Serbia has apologized for events that happened in Croatia and Bosnia (you should know this if you follow the news closely). However, Croatia and Bosnia have not apologized for crimes committed against Serbs. I fully agree with Peggy's objective comments. A lots of crimes have been created by the media and these days it is almost impossible to distinguish reality from fiction. The Yugoslavian civil war might have been preventable and has caused too much pain and suffering for all groups involved. All sides committed crimes, all sides should take responsibility and all sides should apologize. Coming back to the outrage of German soldiers serving on Serbian soil. Ask the average Chinese of South Korean about Japanese soldiers serving on their soil for some peace keeping mission. All I hope is that politicians of all sides will come up with real solutions (which means that compromises have to be made) so that the circle of war and suffering will finally be broken.

Vuk,
in that case, Serbia shouldn't have an army either especially considering that your crimes were only a decade ago, not 50 years ago.

Ben, if you really so badly informed about such important parts of history of your own nation, how can we take you as s serious discussion partner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Skanderbeg_(1st_Albanian)
http://www.balkanalysis.com/2005/10/04/macedonia-in-world-war-ii-debar-and-the-skanderbeg-division/
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1927

Peace keepers are necessary in Kosovo due to ethnic instability, regardless of what nationality they are, but I get the feeling that these forces will soon be an occupying force to make sure Serbia does not react using force, I don't feel that this is a good move (one that creates a feeling of mutual trust and respect), especially since Germany is one of the many EU countries offering Serbia EU membership.

Yes and the same rule should apply to Serbia.

“don´t they know that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, and cannot be a "country"?”

Don’t you know Czar Lazar and Milosevic are dead?

How dare you even compare the crimes committed by the Nazi Germany Wehrmacht and SS in occupied territories and in Germany itself to partly unproven crimes committed by the Yugoslav and Serbian army.

Milan,



Since you asked for further explanations, here it is.

A crime is a crime, no matter what colour or numbers you try to give to it.

Germany did the horrific crimes and the whole world knows about it.
Nobody is and will try to justify any crimes.
Post war Germany apologised for the sufferings they caused the world and I do not recall any wars being started by Germany since.

Serbian army did horrific crimes in the last 15 years.
I do not recall hearing neither did I read anywhere that any Serbian politician apologised to Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia nor Kosovo for the crimes they committed against them.
I guess if the existing Serbian government thought of doing such a thing the distrust that we have towards Serbian politics would be softened.
Just think about it.

And please do not use terms “partly unproven” because it just angers victims and their families even further.

If we are going to still penalise Germany for what their grandfathers did why should not we penalise Serbia for what they have done in the most recent history (note ….. they, not their grandfathers).

Let’s call a crime what it is, a crime. The law must apply to everybody.

Milan,

I did read your comment 10 times and could not find a single flaw (maybe a bit when you fully agree with Peggy) in any of the points you highlighted.
I believe that anybody that reads your comment will agree with what you have written (I definitely recommend it).
If we have learned one thing from what happened in Yugoslavia is that during any conflict that occurred it is the poor that suffered, it s the poor that died, it is the poor that lost everything and it is the poor that are still paying for the mistakes of the rich.
It is the rich that got richer and it is the rich that still benefit from the poor.

And it is exactly the poor that are being ignored by all the politicians today.

You did highlight the reservations when the German troops are concerned.
It is the scars of the past that make us question other side’s actions (even though they might be for our own good).

It is the same scepticism that surrounds anything to do with the Serbian army and police.
The unfortunate recent events have put a grave shadow and it will take time for the wounds to heal.
I accept also that Kosovo Serbs feel the same when the Kosovo Police is mentioned. There is a huge distrust either way.

However I strongly believe that though it is a huge bridge to be crossed (the mutual distrust), there are fruits that await us on the other side.
Whatever the outcome, we will have to live close to each other (if we want to prosper).
And we can.

Blero, I never said it was acceptable for all the torture and killings of civilians to take place even if it was a civil war. Show me where I said that.
But all the tortures, mass killings of civilians, women and children happened to the Serbs as well. Stop pretending that nothing happened to the Serbs and somehow as supermen they did all these beastly things to the Muslims and Croatians.

By all means, debate my opinions and try to discredit them, but do not distort what I say.
I repeat myself. Nobody has clean hands.

I am glad Germany continues to stick up for those countries that Serbia continues to harrass. German support saved Croatia and Slovenia from Greater Serbian terror.

How dare you compare Serbia to Nazi Germany. We had a civil war situation in the '90s, not genocide of Nazi Germany and occupation of other countries.
(peggy, 8 January 2008 13:10)


So Peggy, since it was a civil war the following is accepted and justifiable then!!!!!

Mass imprisonment of people,
Killing civilians (women children),
Mass expulsion and massacring of civilian,
Mass raping,
Burning of properties and civilian belongings,
Tortures,
Mass burning of bodies

Blero,

I appreciate your latest comment posting. You observation that in any war or conflict it is the common people that suffer the most should be taken as a starting point to do all that can be done to prevent more violence (war is the last resort). Everywhere there are good and bad politicians. It is sad that pain from previous generations can be transfered and that this pain, combined with feelings of revenge can lead to new suffering (the victim becomes the perpetrator and the circle has started). In a sense we all have scars in our hearts and our souls that we wished we did not have. Overcoming distrust and hate and finding the ability to somehow forgive your enemy is hard (maybe the hardest) and it takes time and signs of goodwill from both sides to overcome this. In the end the visible things that make groups and people different are only a small percentage of what makes us human. In other words, we have so much more in common than we differ. In case of the volatile Balkan with its long history of war and violence it would be a good first step if outsiders stopped intervening and dividing people. It is easy to respond strongly when you feel frustrated. We are all biased to a certain extent. It takes a few people to start something new and good and if this goodness can be seen it will spread around and grow.

As far as I am concerned Germany should not be allowed to have an army, period. For at least a great many years.
This is absolutely insanity since Nazi Germany was the first to try and cleanse the Serbs from Kosovo by establishing the SS Skenderbeg division to help Greater Albania.

Clearly some things never change.

Well, this says it all. You recognise what you like, but if you do, you must do so with your troops out of that particular area, why, because it would be deemed ilegal first and formost. The foreign troops would be looked upon in the eyes of international law as an occupying force with no legitimacy trying to uphold an illegitimate case for independance. Hence why the U.S. and the E.U. are desperate, I'll say it again, desperate for Serbias co-operation and signature to make this legal.

Clearly some things never change.
(Vuk, 7 January 2008 15:39)


- I agree with this sentence 100%

Whether German troops are in Kosovo or not will not affect the end result. Kosovo will never be part of Serbia again.

I have never heard about SS Skenderbeg division... it seams that some historical "truths" are known only to serbians...

Clearly some things never change.
(Vuk, 7 January 2008 15:39)


If Germany should not be allowed to have an army for what they did in the WWII what criteria should we put for Serbian army after the good job hey did in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?

Just something for you to think about!

And yes, you are right, clearly some things never change.
Serbia will never stop with their nationalistic approach when Kosovo is concerned.
But you know what, since 1999 (when Serbian army, police and paramilitaries were forced out of Kosovo) that does not really matter does it.
The facts on the ground are clear.

I wish you luck with your “No German Army” petition.

“don´t they know that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, and cannot be a "country"?”

Don’t you know Czar Lazar and Milosevic are dead?

Vuk,
in that case, Serbia shouldn't have an army either especially considering that your crimes were only a decade ago, not 50 years ago.

Yes and the same rule should apply to Serbia.

The German military presence in Serbia, Bosnia and the Bombing of Serbia by the German air force in 99 should make the world shutter in horror! Where is the outrage? Does anyone remember what Germany and their allies (Croatia, Albania, Hungary, Slavic Muslims) did to the Serbs in WWI & II? What would happen if Germany bombed Israel and then sent troops? Why is this all suddenly OK, because Germany is a democracy? Hitler was elected in a "democratic" election.

I am glad Germany continues to stick up for those countries that Serbia continues to harrass. German support saved Croatia and Slovenia from Greater Serbian terror.

How dare you even compare the crimes committed by the Nazi Germany Wehrmacht and SS in occupied territories and in Germany itself to partly unproven crimes committed by the Yugoslav and Serbian army.

Milan,



Since you asked for further explanations, here it is.

A crime is a crime, no matter what colour or numbers you try to give to it.

Germany did the horrific crimes and the whole world knows about it.
Nobody is and will try to justify any crimes.
Post war Germany apologised for the sufferings they caused the world and I do not recall any wars being started by Germany since.

Serbian army did horrific crimes in the last 15 years.
I do not recall hearing neither did I read anywhere that any Serbian politician apologised to Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia nor Kosovo for the crimes they committed against them.
I guess if the existing Serbian government thought of doing such a thing the distrust that we have towards Serbian politics would be softened.
Just think about it.

And please do not use terms “partly unproven” because it just angers victims and their families even further.

If we are going to still penalise Germany for what their grandfathers did why should not we penalise Serbia for what they have done in the most recent history (note ….. they, not their grandfathers).

Let’s call a crime what it is, a crime. The law must apply to everybody.

How dare you compare Serbia to Nazi Germany. We had a civil war situation in the '90s, not genocide of Nazi Germany and occupation of other countries.
(peggy, 8 January 2008 13:10)


So Peggy, since it was a civil war the following is accepted and justifiable then!!!!!

Mass imprisonment of people,
Killing civilians (women children),
Mass expulsion and massacring of civilian,
Mass raping,
Burning of properties and civilian belongings,
Tortures,
Mass burning of bodies

So not only are the Germans intent on trampling on international law, they're riding roughshod over their own domestic law also. Some democrats.

Peace keepers are necessary in Kosovo due to ethnic instability, regardless of what nationality they are, but I get the feeling that these forces will soon be an occupying force to make sure Serbia does not react using force, I don't feel that this is a good move (one that creates a feeling of mutual trust and respect), especially since Germany is one of the many EU countries offering Serbia EU membership.

I read something about a country in this article,...what are they talking about?

don´t they know that Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, and cannot be a "country"?

well, they will learn it, that´s for sure.

"If Germany should not be allowed to have an army for what they did in the WWII what criteria should we put for Serbian army after the good job hey did in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo?

Just something for you to think about!"

Blero,

How dare you even compare the crimes committed by the Nazi Germany Wehrmacht and SS in occupied territories and in Germany itself to partly unproven crimes committed by the Yugoslav and Serbian army (not to mention the Croation and Bosnian armies and the KLA as well). Even suggesting that shows a complete lack of historical knowledge. Germany can have an army as far as I am concerned, but they should stay out of certain countries because of still recent historical reasons. Zoran's understandable response says it all. Maybe the US should send some GI's to Vietnam and see what happens then or France some troops to Algeria.

Milan,

I did read your comment 10 times and could not find a single flaw (maybe a bit when you fully agree with Peggy) in any of the points you highlighted.
I believe that anybody that reads your comment will agree with what you have written (I definitely recommend it).
If we have learned one thing from what happened in Yugoslavia is that during any conflict that occurred it is the poor that suffered, it s the poor that died, it is the poor that lost everything and it is the poor that are still paying for the mistakes of the rich.
It is the rich that got richer and it is the rich that still benefit from the poor.

And it is exactly the poor that are being ignored by all the politicians today.

You did highlight the reservations when the German troops are concerned.
It is the scars of the past that make us question other side’s actions (even though they might be for our own good).

It is the same scepticism that surrounds anything to do with the Serbian army and police.
The unfortunate recent events have put a grave shadow and it will take time for the wounds to heal.
I accept also that Kosovo Serbs feel the same when the Kosovo Police is mentioned. There is a huge distrust either way.

However I strongly believe that though it is a huge bridge to be crossed (the mutual distrust), there are fruits that await us on the other side.
Whatever the outcome, we will have to live close to each other (if we want to prosper).
And we can.

This article confirms what I have said in the past, don't count on the Germans to support Illegal Independence and if the Germans don't go on board neither will their puppet follower Italy.

Sooner or later this kind of internal pressure from within one's government will also happen in the UK and especially France.

Um, didn't the last time Germany sent troops into an area without any international mandate or approval cause World War II?

Steinmeier needs to read up a little on his country's history.

"have never heard about SS Skenderbeg division... it seams that some historical "truths" are known only to serbians...
(ben, 7 January 2008 16:40)"

it´s so easy to disqualify yourself as an Albanian...

you don´t know anything about your real history, except that illyrian nonsense they are teaching you in koha or other cheap yellow-press papers...

how about checking it in the net, you will not have any difficulties to find a lot of pictures and documents about albanian Nazi´s!

When did the Serbian army invade Slovenia,Croatia and Bosnia? Oh ya never... especially since the Serbian army was reintroduced in 2006.

So much for blaming the Serbian army, you can't even tell who was fighting in the last decade Blero.

Face the facts Kosovo is Serbia and no amount of Germany's will change that. Personally they can stay if they like, their just blowing their money away and endangering their troops.

I served with members of German KFOR during my time in Kosovo. Germany can have an Army, this is all nonsense. I make the same arguments in support of Serbia that we (the United States and western Europe) should not do the same thing we did to the Serbs that we did to the Germans after WWI.

Granted the German Army and KFOR as a whole failed during the occupation of Kosovo, namely in the immediate aftermath of the missions deployment and during March 04, but that is politics and not soldiers. I have friends in the German Army who have served bravely in Afghanistan and beyond, all soldiers have things in common it is politics in the way. I know this to be true when I shared Guinness with the Irish at Clarke in Lipjan, Becks with 'ze' Germans in Prizren or rakija with the Serbs on a administrative boundary line coordination meeting in Vranje. The way forward for Serbia is a sort of Marshall plan after WWII. We should not punish Serbia like the Versailles treaty, this stands only to embolden radical elements of its society and hamper the noble efforts of its western thinking leaders.

And on another topic the 21st Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Skanderbeg did exist, it is a matter of historical fact. Just because the Serbs are the only people to recognize does not make it true. The same can be said for 1244 . . . just because we wrongfully ignore it and trample on it does not mean it does not exists nor does it mean it is not binding.

Blero, You are so righteous. So let's go after all the criminals.
How about we start with KLA?
Until recently they were classified as a terrorist organisation. The only reason they are no longer on that list is because it doesn't suit the US to keep them there.
How about we deal with your leaders (the former KLA) for starters?
It is so easy to point fingers and blame your opposition but never see the crimes commited by your own people.
War is brutal and bloody. Everyone kills and nobody has clean hands. Let's not keep going over the same old propaganda how Serbia attacked everyone.
Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Krajina and Bosnia. Did you forget that?
Did you forget Croatian planes flying over fleeing refugees from Krajina and firing on them?
Ethnically cleansing was not good enough, they had to try to exterminate them.
Yes,let's talk about all the crimes commited. Not just the Serbian crimes, but ALL the crimes.
Don't tell me that all those Serbs killed and expelled from their homes are criminals and had to be dealt with. Who takes responsibility for Serbian suffering and casualties?
Serbia did it to their own people I suppose.

How dare you compare Serbia to Nazi Germany. We had a civil war situation in the '90s, not genocide of Nazi Germany and occupation of other countries.

Ben, if you really so badly informed about such important parts of history of your own nation, how can we take you as s serious discussion partner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Skanderbeg_(1st_Albanian)
http://www.balkanalysis.com/2005/10/04/macedonia-in-world-war-ii-debar-and-the-skanderbeg-division/
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1927

Blero, let's clear the vision blurred by years of vicious propaganda by looking at the facts - It seems that most of Albanians on the forum claim that their nation is a victim of centuries of Serb persecution and Genocide!? - During Ottoman rule, Serbs where Christian "raja" without any rights. Muslim Albanians where privileged, had all political, administrative and military power on provincial level. How could Serbs in such situation persecute Albanians? Wasn't that other way around maybe?

Enter the nineties. According to you, Serbs are the bad gays of the civil war, and all the other sides in the conflict, Slovens, Croats, Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims, are peaceful, freedom loving innocent victims. Yet, all these, with exemption of Serbia, created mono ethnic states by expulsion of their minorities. Only Serbia is still multi-ethnic and number of minorities didn't change significantly before, during and after the war. (Mind you, even number of Albanians living in Serbia proper is considerable, even in Belgrade. So much for Albanian claim that we cannot live together). Serbia has biggest number of refuges in Europe, about 1 000 000 Serbs, victims of ethnical cleansing in the newly formed states.

How can it be that nation claimed to be a victim of the genocide rapidly grows in numbers while nation claimed to be a persecutor shrinks? Something is not right here.

Blero,

I agree with you that a crime is a crime and I do not think that Germans should feel responsible for what their grandfathers did (as long as they do not forget and be more modest in their attitude towards certain countries). Serbia has apologized for events that happened in Croatia and Bosnia (you should know this if you follow the news closely). However, Croatia and Bosnia have not apologized for crimes committed against Serbs. I fully agree with Peggy's objective comments. A lots of crimes have been created by the media and these days it is almost impossible to distinguish reality from fiction. The Yugoslavian civil war might have been preventable and has caused too much pain and suffering for all groups involved. All sides committed crimes, all sides should take responsibility and all sides should apologize. Coming back to the outrage of German soldiers serving on Serbian soil. Ask the average Chinese of South Korean about Japanese soldiers serving on their soil for some peace keeping mission. All I hope is that politicians of all sides will come up with real solutions (which means that compromises have to be made) so that the circle of war and suffering will finally be broken.

Blero,

I appreciate your latest comment posting. You observation that in any war or conflict it is the common people that suffer the most should be taken as a starting point to do all that can be done to prevent more violence (war is the last resort). Everywhere there are good and bad politicians. It is sad that pain from previous generations can be transfered and that this pain, combined with feelings of revenge can lead to new suffering (the victim becomes the perpetrator and the circle has started). In a sense we all have scars in our hearts and our souls that we wished we did not have. Overcoming distrust and hate and finding the ability to somehow forgive your enemy is hard (maybe the hardest) and it takes time and signs of goodwill from both sides to overcome this. In the end the visible things that make groups and people different are only a small percentage of what makes us human. In other words, we have so much more in common than we differ. In case of the volatile Balkan with its long history of war and violence it would be a good first step if outsiders stopped intervening and dividing people. It is easy to respond strongly when you feel frustrated. We are all biased to a certain extent. It takes a few people to start something new and good and if this goodness can be seen it will spread around and grow.

Blero, I never said it was acceptable for all the torture and killings of civilians to take place even if it was a civil war. Show me where I said that.
But all the tortures, mass killings of civilians, women and children happened to the Serbs as well. Stop pretending that nothing happened to the Serbs and somehow as supermen they did all these beastly things to the Muslims and Croatians.

By all means, debate my opinions and try to discredit them, but do not distort what I say.
I repeat myself. Nobody has clean hands.