"Bosnia more of threat than Kosovo"

Why is Bosnia a threat and to who???
Bosnia is not a functional state and serbs and croats should be able to get independence and create new states. Here we have more than 2/3 of the WHOLE population thats wants independence. In kosovo its only about 15-20 percent of WHOLE serbias population thats wants independence.

Why can't they just hold a referendum in Bosnia to see if people living there want to remain part of Bosnia or be something else?

No matter what politics are attempted to prop up Bosnia, it's hard to imagine anything that will make that work considering the fact that the majority of its citizens identify with Serbia and Croatia more than Bosnia.

Mirsad, if you don't know how to do it then you can't do it. Simple. Yes, the big question is how to do it, I agree, since you have to break the law to do it.

Second, both Serbs and Croats want to get out from Muslim rule. Serbs have got a bit further than the Croats because they fought to have what they do now and Croats signed an agreement with the Muslims as it seemed easier at the time.

This same old Serbs have no right to anything becasue they killed so many people etc etc is getting old now. It was a war and everyone killed everyone. Croatian and Muslim hands are not clean eather. Wars are ugly and people die. You were not unarmed civilians you want the world to believe. The world is smarter now. There is evidence of help you got from the Arabs. They did not come empty handed. Bill Clinton helped you a lot too. There is footage everywhere of Bosnian army fighting with the Serbs. Pleae stop with the tried and now failed propaganda.

If you know of any other reason why Serbs and Croats would not have the right to self govern then say it, otherwise simply stop with the same old speel of genocide. It is insulting to the Jews and Serbs to speak of genocide when they have already gone through that as victims of Nazis, especially the Jews.

Hello Peter,

I know your well meaning, but the examples you stated are not completely comparable for the Balkans. For example, Moldova is hardly a poster for ethnic cohesion. Moreover, the first three have something in common that the balkan groups do not, and that is they are primarily all homogenous in faith.
Whereas, in places like Bosnia, you have Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslim. You can see the same thing in places like North Ireland and Cyprus, which are also unsettled disputes.

Also, please don't assume people from the Balkans are barbarians. People from other parts of Europe have no shortage of butchers in their history. In addition, if the international community spent have as much time trying to keep Yugoslavia together as they do trying to keep Bosnia in tact, the bloodshed of the 90's could have been avoided.

Oh boy-if kosovo goes so does Republika Srpska and road to Kosovo and albania is going to be the one of the most expensive.That is what worries him and the rest of euro politicians.Promises or profit.? Serbians are not making this decision any easier for them.

Could it be Jansa is afraid of the precedent and falling dominoes that will be inevitable when the US and a "few" EU states flagrantly undermine UN laws and all other international norms and laws regarding sovereignity and territorial integrity ?

Oh what a tangled web we weave .....

Hristos se Rodi!

Sorry Harry, even with the Genocide committed against the Serbs in WWII, Bosniaks NEVER made up the majority.

Before WWII, Bosniaks made up roughly 31% of the population (1931). 43.5% were Bosniaks in 1991. The war of the 1990’s did not affect the population demographics in Bosnia very much (Unlike WWII).

So yes, the clear majority of the population in Bosnia want to join either Croatia or Serbia.

If you recall, the Croats voted with the Muslims for Independence from Yugoslavia, and then the Croats started their own war against the Government in Sarajevo to get their “piece of the pie” committing terrible crimes in places like Mostar.

Considering that every time the Serbs have found themselves in the minority in a country they have either had genocide or massive ethnic cleansing committed against them, it’s no wonder they do not desire to live under the rule of others. Keep in mind that RS has a much higher rate of returnee’s than does the Federation. RS has 12% minorities, and that rate went up since 1996. The Federation currently has only 2% minorities, and that number has been going DOWN since the end of the hostilities.

In addition it is highly undemocratic to divide the Serbian people among the various countries in the Balkans. This will have the unavoidable consequence of diminishing the voting rights of the Serbian people when all countries in the region join the EU. The same goes for the Albanians.

So why not divide the Balkans among ethnic lines? For sure in the short term it might be a little unstable, especially for people like the Bosniaks and the Macedonians, but it’s the only solution that is humane and will work in the long term. Its way better than ethnic cleansing, population exchanges or genocide the only other “solutions” that have been effective in the region.

Why not come up with a policy that can apply to all regions of the Balkans instead of dividing it up along who is “right” or “wrong” in some particular random conflict. Every side committed terrible atrocities in the last century and no side has always been innocent.

The lesson to be learned from Kosovo is that if you can retain your area (In this case RS) then at some point in the future you will be able to ask for independence.

Serbs were completely cleansed from Krajina, the Federation, and the vast majority of the areas in Kosovo under Albanian control why would the Serbs of RS want to go through the same thing? They only survived in those areas in which they fought. They learned a valuable lesson from WWII.

Yes, I condemn those atrocities committed by criminal elements of the Serbian population, but those were certainly not supported by the majority of the Serbian people, who were just of afraid of what was going to happen and did happen.

"For Kosovo it's clear what will happen, it's more a question of how to do it,"

Exactly.

Slovenia is our sole witness throughout the history of oppression from serbs on kosovars, it has constantly been on our side since serbia nationalism gradually evaporated yugoslavia.

And I quote the serbian trade minister as saying it was "humiliating" when asked about the proposed bid from russia to buy majority in nis energy complex for 400 million euros, when the property itself is worth 900 million euros, let alone the natural resources. It seems the serbian government is divided over this issue, the radical nationalists desperately willing to sell it cheap for political support from Russia, serbia is running out of ideas!

Kosovo will be independent very soon.

Why should Bosnia & Herzegovina be a threat to stability in the region?

Here are examples of exactly the same sort of multi ethnic states that exist in Europe without ethnic tension:

1. Switzerland (Germans, French and Italians)
2. Luxembourg (Luxembourgers, Germans and French)
3. Belgium (Dutch, Germans and French)
4. Moldova (Romanians, Ukrainians and Russians)

Bosnia and Herzegovina is exactly the same sort of state, except it has Croats, Serbs and Bosnians. What is the difference here?

My point? When are the people in the Balkans going to stop acting like barbarians and learn from the rest of Europe how to coexist with each other (as in peacefully)?

It's one thing to be proud of your country, it is another to put your country above others.

You mean Serbia hello Tourist! The United States has caused enough problems all over the world and all to nations that can never harm us here. Why are we attacking these Serbian people? Why are we taking their Holy land away from them? Let's call for Independance of South Florida to Cuba, and the border with Mexico for Mexico! Fair is Fair.!

Nobody can look into the accord outside of Bosnia herself. Dream on Mr Jansa but Germans are not going to sell you as a Troyan horse to Serbs. Make no mistake about it. By the way I have just been reading that 70,000 Slovenians took to the streets a few months ago. And that the freedom of press has been under a severe attack by the Slovenian elites. Hmmm...

Peter said >> Bosnia and Herzegovina is exactly the same sort of state, except it has Croats, Serbs and Bosnians. What is the difference here?

First of all Peter you cannot call one group Bosnians and the other two groups Serbians and Croatians, in fact they are all Bosnians and as for the people you refer to as Bosnians, they are in fact Muslims! Are you afraid of the word Muslim? Why not call it what it is?

I have worked in Bosnia for many of years and I have seen a lot, I can tell you that todays Bosnia is like yesterdays Yugoslavia, its destined to fail, and fail it will soon thanks largely to the EU and USA for illegally recognizing Kosovo.

That was a very good reply Peter. I'm sure you understand that nationalism in Bosnia is defined by religion, which is not the case in most other countries.

Another reason we seem to keep having these problems in the Balkans is that certain countries have been meddling for centuries there. Instead of helping solve the problems, the wounds are kept open and decisions are made in those foreign interests, not the interests of the region.

Both Bosnia and Kosovo are definite examples of this.

Harry, I am simply astounded at the shear volume of misinformation you present..

“As a percentage of an ethnic group Bosnjaks lost the most in WWII.”

Seriously Harry, where do you get crazy ideas like that? Jasenovac was for Serbs, Jews and Roma, NOT Bosniaks. I suggest you need to brush up on your WWII history a bit there buddy.

“I doubt these earlier statistics as muslims then were told they can either be Croat or Serb.”

My apologies, I should have said MUSLIMS made up 31% of the population.

“if this is the case then why dont the serbs join into a single bosnian parlament and force a referendum on the issue.”

Well, there’d be no need to join into a single parliament, but a referendum is certainly a great idea.

“But this would not work as there are croats and serbs happy to live in Bosnia.”

You don’t know a lot of Serbs from Bosnia do you?

“so why did they (their leadership) break up Jugoslavia, start wars and commit genocide ?”

Serbia did not break up Yugoslavia, it was Slovenia and Croatia that wanted to leave, and they’d been planning it for years, decades even.

“the majority of refugees were cleansed from RS - about 1 millon where as less than half that has left the federation.”

According the the 1991 census only a little over 720,000 were minorities in RS, and in the Federation about 700,000 were minorities. Currently RS has a 12% minority population and the Federation has 2%. Its very obvious that the Federation committed a greater amount of permanent ethnic cleansing than RS.

“If you want to divide ethnically then you have to use the 1991 demographic map as ethic clensing should not be rewarded”

I agree, and I think that 1931 census should be used, GENOCIDE should not be rewarded. Same goes for Kosovo where Serbs made up roughly 25% of the population before the genocide there in WWII.

As I said WWII affect the population demographics greatly. The main effect of the wars of the 1990’s was Serbs being ethnically cleansed from where they live. Serbs make up the great majority of those who remain displaced.

“they would have fared much better if they had not committed atrocities” The “genocide” at Srebrenica came at the end of the war, so you can not use that act as justification for what came before.

"Another reason we seem to keep having these problems in the Balkans is that certain countries have been meddling for centuries there. Instead of helping solve the problems, the wounds are kept open and decisions are made in those foreign interests, not the interests of the region. "

I cannot agree more with you, you hit the nail on the head. Kosovo is a prime example.

Nicholas Klinsman

Moldova does not experience tension on an ethnic level, the Transdniestr situation is not ethnically based, as the population is completely mixed, roughly 30% Russian, 30% Moldovan and the rest Romanian, Ukrainian etc., but anyway, the ethnic groups appear to coexist peacefully, it would seem.

Yes, the religions do differ in Bosnia, that is quite true, the Muslim element is quite different, but why the Orthodox/Catholic quarrel? Both are Christian and aside from the Balkans, Orthodox and Catholics live in peace. It is not religion that makes the difference here, it is nationalism (Croats vs. Serbs in particular). Same goes for Cyprus, it is Turks vs. Greeks, even Northern Ireland is nationalist-driven, with the Protestants wanting to remain a part of the UK, whilst the Catholics want to be a part of Ireland. The religion they belong to is coincidential, but it is the nationalism that drives to conflict further.

I never said the people from the Balkans are barbarians, I said they must stop acting like barbarians, this sort of nationalism is something that should have died after World War 2, considering how much death and destruction it caused, with nationalism being pretty much the propellant of the whole war.

Yes, people in the rest of Europe have also produced people they cannot be proud of (many far worse, Hitler and Stalin being perfect examples), but it just seems that in the Balkans it is far more recent, that is the only reason I said it.

Lastly, I agree that the IC should have tried to reconcile the states of the former Yugoslavia, those were very prosperous times indeed for all people living within all the republics.

Canadian

I know that Bosniaks are Muslim, but even look at Albania: Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim appear to live peacefully, why should Bosnia be different? The only reason is nationalism, not religion. BTW I agree that Bosnia will probably fall apart some time later.

Srboslav,
I dont recall where you get your statistics from but Serbs and Crats dont represent 2/3ds of the population. Even after surviving genocide the Bosnjaks are are still in majority. If every single ethnic group in the former Jugoslavia got a state then we would have approx 20 states.

Mathew,
"Sorry Harry, even with the Genocide ... Bosniaks NEVER made up the majority."
- I agree with this.

"Before WWII, Bosniaks made up roughly 31% of the population (1931). 43.5% were Bosniaks in 1991. "- I doubt these earlier statistics as muslims then were told they can either be Croat or Serb. Bosnjak was not an option. As a percentage of an ethnic group Bosnjaks lost the most in WWII.

"So yes, the clear majority of the population in Bosnia want to join either Croatia or Serbia." - if this is the case then why dont the serbs join into a single bosnian parlament and force a referendum on the issue. Then they could democraticaly and legally do what they want. But this would not work as there are croats and serbs happy to live in Bosnia.

"If you recall, the Croats voted with the Muslims for Independence... in places like Mostar." - this was a result of aggression by Croatia on Bosnia.

"Considering that every time the Serbs have found themselves in the minority in a ... the rule of others." - so why did they (their leadership) break up Jugoslavia, start wars and commit genocide ?

"Keep in mind that RS has a much ... The Federation currently has only 2% minorities, and that number has been going DOWN since the end of the hostilities." - the majority of refugees were cleansed from RS - about 1 millon where as less than half that has left the federation. How many of these RS returnees have public sector jobs?

"In addition it is highly undemocratic .... in the region join the EU. The same goes for the Albanians." - voting rights ? There is about 9 million Serbs, in EU population terms its not a significant number even if they all voted for the same issue.

"So why not divide the Balkans among ethnic lines? For sure in the short term it ... exchanges or genocide the only other “solutions” that have been effective in the region." - wasnt Jugoslavia the best solution ?
If you want to divide ethnically then you have to use the 1991 demographic map as ethic clensing should not be rewarded, then you have another issue - most places are ethNically mixed. How do you divide these ?

"Why not come up with a policy that can apply to all regions of the Balkans terrible atrocities in the last century and no side has always been innocent." - sorry but genocide is not the same as attrocities.
And the perpetrators even deny it ever happened.

"The lesson to be learned from Kosovo ... for independence." - Kosovo was not built on genocide and unlike RS was an autonomous area. But I an not advocating they deserve independance.

"Serbs were completely cleansed ... learned a valuable lesson from WWII." - they would have fared much better if they had not committed attrocities or if they agreed to a confederative Jugoslavia.
By the way the Bosnjaks are the biggest losers of the war.

"Yes, I ...who were just of afraid of what was going to happen and did happen." - you may condem it buy most politicians in Serbia dont.

Sorry Mathew but the only thing that will sort out the Balkans is time and UN troops even though the main architects of the mess are long dead.

"For Kosovo it's clear what will happen, it's more a question of how to do it,"

Exactly.

Slovenia is our sole witness throughout the history of oppression from serbs on kosovars, it has constantly been on our side since serbia nationalism gradually evaporated yugoslavia.

And I quote the serbian trade minister as saying it was "humiliating" when asked about the proposed bid from russia to buy majority in nis energy complex for 400 million euros, when the property itself is worth 900 million euros, let alone the natural resources. It seems the serbian government is divided over this issue, the radical nationalists desperately willing to sell it cheap for political support from Russia, serbia is running out of ideas!

Kosovo will be independent very soon.

Srboslav,
I dont recall where you get your statistics from but Serbs and Crats dont represent 2/3ds of the population. Even after surviving genocide the Bosnjaks are are still in majority. If every single ethnic group in the former Jugoslavia got a state then we would have approx 20 states.

Why is Bosnia a threat and to who???
Bosnia is not a functional state and serbs and croats should be able to get independence and create new states. Here we have more than 2/3 of the WHOLE population thats wants independence. In kosovo its only about 15-20 percent of WHOLE serbias population thats wants independence.

Why should Bosnia & Herzegovina be a threat to stability in the region?

Here are examples of exactly the same sort of multi ethnic states that exist in Europe without ethnic tension:

1. Switzerland (Germans, French and Italians)
2. Luxembourg (Luxembourgers, Germans and French)
3. Belgium (Dutch, Germans and French)
4. Moldova (Romanians, Ukrainians and Russians)

Bosnia and Herzegovina is exactly the same sort of state, except it has Croats, Serbs and Bosnians. What is the difference here?

My point? When are the people in the Balkans going to stop acting like barbarians and learn from the rest of Europe how to coexist with each other (as in peacefully)?

It's one thing to be proud of your country, it is another to put your country above others.

Mirsad, if you don't know how to do it then you can't do it. Simple. Yes, the big question is how to do it, I agree, since you have to break the law to do it.

Second, both Serbs and Croats want to get out from Muslim rule. Serbs have got a bit further than the Croats because they fought to have what they do now and Croats signed an agreement with the Muslims as it seemed easier at the time.

This same old Serbs have no right to anything becasue they killed so many people etc etc is getting old now. It was a war and everyone killed everyone. Croatian and Muslim hands are not clean eather. Wars are ugly and people die. You were not unarmed civilians you want the world to believe. The world is smarter now. There is evidence of help you got from the Arabs. They did not come empty handed. Bill Clinton helped you a lot too. There is footage everywhere of Bosnian army fighting with the Serbs. Pleae stop with the tried and now failed propaganda.

If you know of any other reason why Serbs and Croats would not have the right to self govern then say it, otherwise simply stop with the same old speel of genocide. It is insulting to the Jews and Serbs to speak of genocide when they have already gone through that as victims of Nazis, especially the Jews.

Oh boy-if kosovo goes so does Republika Srpska and road to Kosovo and albania is going to be the one of the most expensive.That is what worries him and the rest of euro politicians.Promises or profit.? Serbians are not making this decision any easier for them.

Why can't they just hold a referendum in Bosnia to see if people living there want to remain part of Bosnia or be something else?

No matter what politics are attempted to prop up Bosnia, it's hard to imagine anything that will make that work considering the fact that the majority of its citizens identify with Serbia and Croatia more than Bosnia.

Could it be Jansa is afraid of the precedent and falling dominoes that will be inevitable when the US and a "few" EU states flagrantly undermine UN laws and all other international norms and laws regarding sovereignity and territorial integrity ?

Oh what a tangled web we weave .....

Hristos se Rodi!

Sorry Harry, even with the Genocide committed against the Serbs in WWII, Bosniaks NEVER made up the majority.

Before WWII, Bosniaks made up roughly 31% of the population (1931). 43.5% were Bosniaks in 1991. The war of the 1990’s did not affect the population demographics in Bosnia very much (Unlike WWII).

So yes, the clear majority of the population in Bosnia want to join either Croatia or Serbia.

If you recall, the Croats voted with the Muslims for Independence from Yugoslavia, and then the Croats started their own war against the Government in Sarajevo to get their “piece of the pie” committing terrible crimes in places like Mostar.

Considering that every time the Serbs have found themselves in the minority in a country they have either had genocide or massive ethnic cleansing committed against them, it’s no wonder they do not desire to live under the rule of others. Keep in mind that RS has a much higher rate of returnee’s than does the Federation. RS has 12% minorities, and that rate went up since 1996. The Federation currently has only 2% minorities, and that number has been going DOWN since the end of the hostilities.

In addition it is highly undemocratic to divide the Serbian people among the various countries in the Balkans. This will have the unavoidable consequence of diminishing the voting rights of the Serbian people when all countries in the region join the EU. The same goes for the Albanians.

So why not divide the Balkans among ethnic lines? For sure in the short term it might be a little unstable, especially for people like the Bosniaks and the Macedonians, but it’s the only solution that is humane and will work in the long term. Its way better than ethnic cleansing, population exchanges or genocide the only other “solutions” that have been effective in the region.

Why not come up with a policy that can apply to all regions of the Balkans instead of dividing it up along who is “right” or “wrong” in some particular random conflict. Every side committed terrible atrocities in the last century and no side has always been innocent.

The lesson to be learned from Kosovo is that if you can retain your area (In this case RS) then at some point in the future you will be able to ask for independence.

Serbs were completely cleansed from Krajina, the Federation, and the vast majority of the areas in Kosovo under Albanian control why would the Serbs of RS want to go through the same thing? They only survived in those areas in which they fought. They learned a valuable lesson from WWII.

Yes, I condemn those atrocities committed by criminal elements of the Serbian population, but those were certainly not supported by the majority of the Serbian people, who were just of afraid of what was going to happen and did happen.

Hello Peter,

I know your well meaning, but the examples you stated are not completely comparable for the Balkans. For example, Moldova is hardly a poster for ethnic cohesion. Moreover, the first three have something in common that the balkan groups do not, and that is they are primarily all homogenous in faith.
Whereas, in places like Bosnia, you have Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslim. You can see the same thing in places like North Ireland and Cyprus, which are also unsettled disputes.

Also, please don't assume people from the Balkans are barbarians. People from other parts of Europe have no shortage of butchers in their history. In addition, if the international community spent have as much time trying to keep Yugoslavia together as they do trying to keep Bosnia in tact, the bloodshed of the 90's could have been avoided.

Mathew,
"Sorry Harry, even with the Genocide ... Bosniaks NEVER made up the majority."
- I agree with this.

"Before WWII, Bosniaks made up roughly 31% of the population (1931). 43.5% were Bosniaks in 1991. "- I doubt these earlier statistics as muslims then were told they can either be Croat or Serb. Bosnjak was not an option. As a percentage of an ethnic group Bosnjaks lost the most in WWII.

"So yes, the clear majority of the population in Bosnia want to join either Croatia or Serbia." - if this is the case then why dont the serbs join into a single bosnian parlament and force a referendum on the issue. Then they could democraticaly and legally do what they want. But this would not work as there are croats and serbs happy to live in Bosnia.

"If you recall, the Croats voted with the Muslims for Independence... in places like Mostar." - this was a result of aggression by Croatia on Bosnia.

"Considering that every time the Serbs have found themselves in the minority in a ... the rule of others." - so why did they (their leadership) break up Jugoslavia, start wars and commit genocide ?

"Keep in mind that RS has a much ... The Federation currently has only 2% minorities, and that number has been going DOWN since the end of the hostilities." - the majority of refugees were cleansed from RS - about 1 millon where as less than half that has left the federation. How many of these RS returnees have public sector jobs?

"In addition it is highly undemocratic .... in the region join the EU. The same goes for the Albanians." - voting rights ? There is about 9 million Serbs, in EU population terms its not a significant number even if they all voted for the same issue.

"So why not divide the Balkans among ethnic lines? For sure in the short term it ... exchanges or genocide the only other “solutions” that have been effective in the region." - wasnt Jugoslavia the best solution ?
If you want to divide ethnically then you have to use the 1991 demographic map as ethic clensing should not be rewarded, then you have another issue - most places are ethNically mixed. How do you divide these ?

"Why not come up with a policy that can apply to all regions of the Balkans terrible atrocities in the last century and no side has always been innocent." - sorry but genocide is not the same as attrocities.
And the perpetrators even deny it ever happened.

"The lesson to be learned from Kosovo ... for independence." - Kosovo was not built on genocide and unlike RS was an autonomous area. But I an not advocating they deserve independance.

"Serbs were completely cleansed ... learned a valuable lesson from WWII." - they would have fared much better if they had not committed attrocities or if they agreed to a confederative Jugoslavia.
By the way the Bosnjaks are the biggest losers of the war.

"Yes, I ...who were just of afraid of what was going to happen and did happen." - you may condem it buy most politicians in Serbia dont.

Sorry Mathew but the only thing that will sort out the Balkans is time and UN troops even though the main architects of the mess are long dead.

Nobody can look into the accord outside of Bosnia herself. Dream on Mr Jansa but Germans are not going to sell you as a Troyan horse to Serbs. Make no mistake about it. By the way I have just been reading that 70,000 Slovenians took to the streets a few months ago. And that the freedom of press has been under a severe attack by the Slovenian elites. Hmmm...

You mean Serbia hello Tourist! The United States has caused enough problems all over the world and all to nations that can never harm us here. Why are we attacking these Serbian people? Why are we taking their Holy land away from them? Let's call for Independance of South Florida to Cuba, and the border with Mexico for Mexico! Fair is Fair.!

Peter said >> Bosnia and Herzegovina is exactly the same sort of state, except it has Croats, Serbs and Bosnians. What is the difference here?

First of all Peter you cannot call one group Bosnians and the other two groups Serbians and Croatians, in fact they are all Bosnians and as for the people you refer to as Bosnians, they are in fact Muslims! Are you afraid of the word Muslim? Why not call it what it is?

I have worked in Bosnia for many of years and I have seen a lot, I can tell you that todays Bosnia is like yesterdays Yugoslavia, its destined to fail, and fail it will soon thanks largely to the EU and USA for illegally recognizing Kosovo.

Nicholas Klinsman

Moldova does not experience tension on an ethnic level, the Transdniestr situation is not ethnically based, as the population is completely mixed, roughly 30% Russian, 30% Moldovan and the rest Romanian, Ukrainian etc., but anyway, the ethnic groups appear to coexist peacefully, it would seem.

Yes, the religions do differ in Bosnia, that is quite true, the Muslim element is quite different, but why the Orthodox/Catholic quarrel? Both are Christian and aside from the Balkans, Orthodox and Catholics live in peace. It is not religion that makes the difference here, it is nationalism (Croats vs. Serbs in particular). Same goes for Cyprus, it is Turks vs. Greeks, even Northern Ireland is nationalist-driven, with the Protestants wanting to remain a part of the UK, whilst the Catholics want to be a part of Ireland. The religion they belong to is coincidential, but it is the nationalism that drives to conflict further.

I never said the people from the Balkans are barbarians, I said they must stop acting like barbarians, this sort of nationalism is something that should have died after World War 2, considering how much death and destruction it caused, with nationalism being pretty much the propellant of the whole war.

Yes, people in the rest of Europe have also produced people they cannot be proud of (many far worse, Hitler and Stalin being perfect examples), but it just seems that in the Balkans it is far more recent, that is the only reason I said it.

Lastly, I agree that the IC should have tried to reconcile the states of the former Yugoslavia, those were very prosperous times indeed for all people living within all the republics.

Canadian

I know that Bosniaks are Muslim, but even look at Albania: Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim appear to live peacefully, why should Bosnia be different? The only reason is nationalism, not religion. BTW I agree that Bosnia will probably fall apart some time later.

Harry, I am simply astounded at the shear volume of misinformation you present..

“As a percentage of an ethnic group Bosnjaks lost the most in WWII.”

Seriously Harry, where do you get crazy ideas like that? Jasenovac was for Serbs, Jews and Roma, NOT Bosniaks. I suggest you need to brush up on your WWII history a bit there buddy.

“I doubt these earlier statistics as muslims then were told they can either be Croat or Serb.”

My apologies, I should have said MUSLIMS made up 31% of the population.

“if this is the case then why dont the serbs join into a single bosnian parlament and force a referendum on the issue.”

Well, there’d be no need to join into a single parliament, but a referendum is certainly a great idea.

“But this would not work as there are croats and serbs happy to live in Bosnia.”

You don’t know a lot of Serbs from Bosnia do you?

“so why did they (their leadership) break up Jugoslavia, start wars and commit genocide ?”

Serbia did not break up Yugoslavia, it was Slovenia and Croatia that wanted to leave, and they’d been planning it for years, decades even.

“the majority of refugees were cleansed from RS - about 1 millon where as less than half that has left the federation.”

According the the 1991 census only a little over 720,000 were minorities in RS, and in the Federation about 700,000 were minorities. Currently RS has a 12% minority population and the Federation has 2%. Its very obvious that the Federation committed a greater amount of permanent ethnic cleansing than RS.

“If you want to divide ethnically then you have to use the 1991 demographic map as ethic clensing should not be rewarded”

I agree, and I think that 1931 census should be used, GENOCIDE should not be rewarded. Same goes for Kosovo where Serbs made up roughly 25% of the population before the genocide there in WWII.

As I said WWII affect the population demographics greatly. The main effect of the wars of the 1990’s was Serbs being ethnically cleansed from where they live. Serbs make up the great majority of those who remain displaced.

“they would have fared much better if they had not committed atrocities” The “genocide” at Srebrenica came at the end of the war, so you can not use that act as justification for what came before.

That was a very good reply Peter. I'm sure you understand that nationalism in Bosnia is defined by religion, which is not the case in most other countries.

Another reason we seem to keep having these problems in the Balkans is that certain countries have been meddling for centuries there. Instead of helping solve the problems, the wounds are kept open and decisions are made in those foreign interests, not the interests of the region.

Both Bosnia and Kosovo are definite examples of this.

"Another reason we seem to keep having these problems in the Balkans is that certain countries have been meddling for centuries there. Instead of helping solve the problems, the wounds are kept open and decisions are made in those foreign interests, not the interests of the region. "

I cannot agree more with you, you hit the nail on the head. Kosovo is a prime example.