Serbian Orthodox Church Christmas message

JB I am again surprised your comment has been posted because its completely wrong, anyone with half a gram of sense will tell you that politics is about people not polititians and by extention the church is deeply entwined within people especially Serbian people.

His comments are noble, proud and wholey apropriate and I defy anyone who does not agree with them.

Spot on Vuk, Christos se Rodi!

Ahmet Isufi

Countries such as Ireland, Italy and Poland are EU countries where the religion has much power within the state. This is not always a bad thing, as the church has given hope to these people (as a Pole, I know better than anyone else) in hard times, though yes, sometimes the church has too much influence and hinders the freedom of the people, though I doubt it is so bad in Serbia as elsewhere.

A Jewish boy named Jesus was born who came into the world to preach the message of peace and love.2000 years later we are still not there yet so let us at least try tolerance for the time being.Shalom to all the Serb and Albanian people who believe in peaceful co-existence.You have more in common as human beings than differences.

As tor the separation of the Church from the State - see Pope's message from Vatican' audience for 176 diplomats today.
Learn from the Masters! His Holiness the Pope not only tackles any political issue he pleases to do so, but even those he has absolutely no stakes in.
On the other hand, SOC dares to mention something about its own people still being expelled from their own homes. What an audacity!!!

> They prayed for peace and salvation.

Some churchmen did pray for peace. But some of them failed to live by the words of the Gospel. Instead they chose to ally themselves with false heroes and blessed killers and their deeds. Consider these photos, taken during the bloodiest days of the Bosnian war --
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/rmrk/index.php
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/rmrk/1.php
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/rmrk/2.php
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/criminals/b&c4.jpg

... and the research and documentation presented in these books:

Milorad Tomanic,
Srpska crkva u ratu i ratovi u njoj
Izd.: Krug Medijska knjizara, 2001.
http://www.krugcentar.co.yu/php/knjiga.php?id_knjige=189

Michael Sells,
The Bridge Betrayed: Religion and Genocide in Bosnia
University of California Press, 1998.
http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Betrayed-Religion-Genocide-Comparative/dp/0520216628
also publ. in translation as
Iznevjereni most: religija i genocid u Bosni [prev.: Zoran Mutic]
Sarajevo: Sedam, 2002.

When will religious figures learn to keep religion and politics seperate? I am proud to be Christian, but it alarms me when clergy use their positions to spout off about politics. IT'S NOT YOUR BUSINESS! After all, priests don't like it when politicians interfere.

Precisely - Vuk!

Ahmet, you must have gotten your commentary boards crossed, as B92 is SERBIAN news & not "US of A" news.

State and church should not mix, just like in US of A and other countiries.

I agree that religion and politics shouldn't mix - that is a dream. Throughout history, past and present, the various religions have brought on wars and participated in wars either tryiing to exterminate one and in defense of extermination. Where would the Catholic church be without their "input" in the world order; isn't a jihad a religious declaration of war? But enought of this today. It is a celebration of Christ's birth and, as we say, Peace be to God, Christ is Born - Mir Boze, Hristos Se Rodi to all out Orthodox faithful and peace to our enemies. Hristos Se Rodi!

Vajistina se rodi!

> Don't see any blood there nor people being killed.


Please take note who those persons are who are being blessed by the bishops and the patriarch in those photos -- Ratko Mladic, Radovan Karadzic, Radislav Krstic & co. ... and the date when these blessings were conferred: during the Bosnian war, on the eve of the July 1995 genocide at Srebrenica. The crimes committed at Srebrenica, --at the orders of the same people who are shown being blessed by the bishops--, have been judged to be genocide by the International Court of Justice, the world's highest court. The truth about the crimes at Srebrenica in the summer of 1995 has also been recognized by the Republika Srpska government --
http://www.vladars.net/pdf/srebr.pdf
http://www.vladars.net/pdf/srebr_final_s_l.pdf

If you want more proof, you can also watch the infamous Skorpioni video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r74hsAsbqnQ
... especially the opening scene, in which the members of the murderous unit are blessed by an Orthodox priest, who chants to them an invocation including references to the need to defeat “the enemy people” (not the enemy armed forces).

If you really want to see the blood and people being killed, just watch to the end of the video.

I agree with JB! Church and State should be kept seperate. As you said, the Church doesn't like it when someone else meddles in their business, stick to what you do best, because politics ain't one of them!

I wonder what were these holy men were saying when their nation was commiting attrocities in the name of Serbia in Bosnia and Kosovo ?

What was their opinion, anyone ?

Artan: They prayed for peace and salvation.

Delije
It is true (Christo se rodi),but what he said does not have to do anything with Christ or religion, simply he talking nacionalisem.

Vuk,
Why are you surprised that my comment was allowed? Ah....perhaps it is your dogmatic approach that church and politics are one of the same, thus strangling democracy and freedom of expression. I thank B92 for promoting such freedom.
Thanks.

"Consider these photos, taken during the bloodiest days of the Bosnian war --"

Don't see any blood there nor people being killed. Compare that to Croatian priests in WWII swinging children and bashing their heads open against a wall.

The Serbian priests and monks gave shelter and food to all those being displaced by the war initiated by the KLA and then when NATO acted as its airforce too. Nonetheless they were all attacked by Albanians with the international community standing by.

Michael Sells is an anti-Serb propagandist spouting lies.

I agree with JB! Church and State should be kept seperate. As you said, the Church doesn't like it when someone else meddles in their business, stick to what you do best, because politics ain't one of them!

When will religious figures learn to keep religion and politics seperate? I am proud to be Christian, but it alarms me when clergy use their positions to spout off about politics. IT'S NOT YOUR BUSINESS! After all, priests don't like it when politicians interfere.

State and church should not mix, just like in US of A and other countiries.

Delije
It is true (Christo se rodi),but what he said does not have to do anything with Christ or religion, simply he talking nacionalisem.

I wonder what were these holy men were saying when their nation was commiting attrocities in the name of Serbia in Bosnia and Kosovo ?

What was their opinion, anyone ?

JB I am again surprised your comment has been posted because its completely wrong, anyone with half a gram of sense will tell you that politics is about people not polititians and by extention the church is deeply entwined within people especially Serbian people.

His comments are noble, proud and wholey apropriate and I defy anyone who does not agree with them.

Spot on Vuk, Christos se Rodi!

I agree that religion and politics shouldn't mix - that is a dream. Throughout history, past and present, the various religions have brought on wars and participated in wars either tryiing to exterminate one and in defense of extermination. Where would the Catholic church be without their "input" in the world order; isn't a jihad a religious declaration of war? But enought of this today. It is a celebration of Christ's birth and, as we say, Peace be to God, Christ is Born - Mir Boze, Hristos Se Rodi to all out Orthodox faithful and peace to our enemies. Hristos Se Rodi!

Vajistina se rodi!

Precisely - Vuk!

Ahmet, you must have gotten your commentary boards crossed, as B92 is SERBIAN news & not "US of A" news.

Ahmet Isufi

Countries such as Ireland, Italy and Poland are EU countries where the religion has much power within the state. This is not always a bad thing, as the church has given hope to these people (as a Pole, I know better than anyone else) in hard times, though yes, sometimes the church has too much influence and hinders the freedom of the people, though I doubt it is so bad in Serbia as elsewhere.

Vuk,
Why are you surprised that my comment was allowed? Ah....perhaps it is your dogmatic approach that church and politics are one of the same, thus strangling democracy and freedom of expression. I thank B92 for promoting such freedom.
Thanks.

A Jewish boy named Jesus was born who came into the world to preach the message of peace and love.2000 years later we are still not there yet so let us at least try tolerance for the time being.Shalom to all the Serb and Albanian people who believe in peaceful co-existence.You have more in common as human beings than differences.

As tor the separation of the Church from the State - see Pope's message from Vatican' audience for 176 diplomats today.
Learn from the Masters! His Holiness the Pope not only tackles any political issue he pleases to do so, but even those he has absolutely no stakes in.
On the other hand, SOC dares to mention something about its own people still being expelled from their own homes. What an audacity!!!

Artan: They prayed for peace and salvation.

> They prayed for peace and salvation.

Some churchmen did pray for peace. But some of them failed to live by the words of the Gospel. Instead they chose to ally themselves with false heroes and blessed killers and their deeds. Consider these photos, taken during the bloodiest days of the Bosnian war --
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/rmrk/index.php
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/rmrk/1.php
http://www.pogledi.co.yu/galerija/rmrk/2.php
http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/criminals/b&c4.jpg

... and the research and documentation presented in these books:

Milorad Tomanic,
Srpska crkva u ratu i ratovi u njoj
Izd.: Krug Medijska knjizara, 2001.
http://www.krugcentar.co.yu/php/knjiga.php?id_knjige=189

Michael Sells,
The Bridge Betrayed: Religion and Genocide in Bosnia
University of California Press, 1998.
http://www.amazon.com/Bridge-Betrayed-Religion-Genocide-Comparative/dp/0520216628
also publ. in translation as
Iznevjereni most: religija i genocid u Bosni [prev.: Zoran Mutic]
Sarajevo: Sedam, 2002.

"Consider these photos, taken during the bloodiest days of the Bosnian war --"

Don't see any blood there nor people being killed. Compare that to Croatian priests in WWII swinging children and bashing their heads open against a wall.

The Serbian priests and monks gave shelter and food to all those being displaced by the war initiated by the KLA and then when NATO acted as its airforce too. Nonetheless they were all attacked by Albanians with the international community standing by.

Michael Sells is an anti-Serb propagandist spouting lies.

> Don't see any blood there nor people being killed.


Please take note who those persons are who are being blessed by the bishops and the patriarch in those photos -- Ratko Mladic, Radovan Karadzic, Radislav Krstic & co. ... and the date when these blessings were conferred: during the Bosnian war, on the eve of the July 1995 genocide at Srebrenica. The crimes committed at Srebrenica, --at the orders of the same people who are shown being blessed by the bishops--, have been judged to be genocide by the International Court of Justice, the world's highest court. The truth about the crimes at Srebrenica in the summer of 1995 has also been recognized by the Republika Srpska government --
http://www.vladars.net/pdf/srebr.pdf
http://www.vladars.net/pdf/srebr_final_s_l.pdf

If you want more proof, you can also watch the infamous Skorpioni video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r74hsAsbqnQ
... especially the opening scene, in which the members of the murderous unit are blessed by an Orthodox priest, who chants to them an invocation including references to the need to defeat “the enemy people” (not the enemy armed forces).

If you really want to see the blood and people being killed, just watch to the end of the video.