"Koštunica does not want Serbia in EU"

why does a director for a center of human rights care about the political-economic future-orientation of Serbia?

or is that NGO just another paid proxy for foreign interests?

I don´t think that Serbia should enter the EU either, for various reasons albeit I think that Serbia will enter it anyway.

once again, B92 chooses to publish an article against the government of Serbia.

why did B92 not publish the quite interesting lines of an high-ranked US-military in the washington times?

is it, because he´s calling for a change of american policy in the balkans?

I fail to see the relevance of this NGO director's comments (he is yet another nobody whose comments B92 wishes to publish). Kostunica should keep doing what he is doing, which is defending the law and sovereignty of sacred Serbian land, which is Kosovo. Those who pretend to be our 'friends', by offering us all kinds of carrots while at the same time supporting the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo and the illegal and immoral formation of a 'greater albania' need to know that Serbia will not accept to be treated like this. We will stick with our true friends, those that treat us as equals.
Hristos se Rodi!!
Merry Christmas everyone, and may you and your loved ones be blessed with peace, love, good health, and lots of prosperity.

Dimitrijević is the paid mouthpiece of the Americans and Germans. All his money, every penny, comes from EU and American governments.

When he tells us that in a recent poll that 70% of Serbians supported EU entry we must consider that the Serbian public never hears any criticism of the EU in the Serbia Press or on TV.

Serbia has no freedom of the Press.

In Serbia, privately owned newspapers, radio and TV (including B92) are financed directly or indirectly by Western governments (I am not sure if this applies to TV Pink).

The state-controlled media is largely in the hands of Western financed DOS supporters.

How can the average Serb form a judgement about the pros and cons of EU membership when the pros are always exaggerated and the cons never mentioned.

The EU has lost popularity among the population of the member states according to a poll that was broadcasted on EuroNews. There are many people suffering due to the inflation as well as other high standards, that may seem reasonable, but aren't really looked at by the council as a whole. There are many residents of the member states that are struggling beyond belief to purchase daily needs to survive.

http://www.euronews.net/index.php?page=pass&article=462266&lng=1#

Why should we join? The Cyprus example is a very good one & obviously something that was grossly overlooked by all. Why should we put the future of our country in the hands of the EU which allowed Greek Cyprus a streamlined green light entry based on no borders?

This has been the epitomes carrot dangling in front of us for too long. So in essence it's good that we were able to sit on the sidelines & learn from other countries mistakes.

Yes Lenard the EU is very over rated. Lets look at a few things...

lets even try to erase the fact that they want to strip land away from us that has been ours while there land were filled of barbaric tribes, and the fact that they illegally bombed us for 78 days.

The EU is still no good. In return for giving up Kosovo we get even more less soverignty by joining the oh mighty EU. Lets look at Romania, Bulgaria.. I do not see them any better than they were last year.

The EU does work, that is no debate.. but the EU works when your France, Germany, Italy and the U.K. The EU does not work if your Romania, Bulgaria........ Serbia.

The EU calls for opening borders. Look, I am not a anti immagration nut job... but take a look at our neighbours to the south... if we do that.. Beograd becomes Pristina in 25 years. They will first get Nis then Kragujevac then Beograd and finally Vojvodina.

Serbia can survive without the EU.. we are better than that.. we are not Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia or Albania who depend on others as much.. our economy is a little better than that.


There are alternitives.. alternitives that will lead us with friendships with countries who respect us as equals.

SAY NO TO THE EU.

Vojin Dimitrejević comments reveal a fundamental choice which Serbia will have to make in the coming months and during 2008: to engage with the European Union as its natural partner, as all other neighbours do, or to look towards the East for a long-distance relationship with an icy partner. Not to engage with the EU would be most harmful for the citizens of Serbia, not for the EU. However, the choice is only worth the effort if Serbia is really committed to leave the old way of thinking behind and not to try to reconquer what has been lost already long time ago.
As far as Kosovo is concerned, I'm astonished by the exclusivity-paradigma put forward: either SSA with Serbia or EU Rule of Law Mission in Kosovo. If I recall correctly, it was Serbia who was one of the most vocal criticizers of the rule of law record in Kosovo. The weak rule of law in Kosovo has many reasons, such as the relative young institutions searching for capable human resources to tackle the issue, establishing the legal and legislative framework, the strong informal and invisible networks, cross-border cooperation of organized crime-groups, insufficient domestic political will to seriously tackle the issue, lack of prioritarization of the international community. And now... the international community, alongside an important segment of local stakeholders in Kosovo, wants to tackle the issue. The EU Rule of Law Mission intends to adress the issue in a structural and substantial way, with long term commitment. Wouldn't Serbia be happy? But it seems now that Serbia strongly opposes the new Mission. There might always be reasons for Serbia to disagree with developments in Kosovo, but on this one - the Rule of Law Mission - I can't see how Serbia can contradict and harm itself more.

The definition of European integration is not joining a smug club like the EU who has 27 members.

Europe in whole has more than 27 countries and to say you are not Europe or integrated into Europe because you are not in this club is nonsense!

The EU is good to 6 or 7 of its members, the rest are not enjoying the benefits promised to them when they first joined. The top 6 or 7 are feeding off of the 20 or 21 other members, bleeding them dry!

This Union was first created to counter the American influence in Europe both politically and financially, even militarily, it has achieved the financially part as evident from the strong Euro but at the expense of about 20 EU members. As for politically, and militarily the EU is useless, it has been infiltrated by the Americans and its the Americans that dictate policy to the EU.

those that treat us as equals.

(Dragan, 7 January 2008 13:29)

Dragan,

You’ve just hit the nail on the head with that comment.
Unfortunately, that kind of comment should come from Kosovo Albanians.
That is the exact reason Kosovo Albanians want Independence.
Only in the independent Kosovo they will be treated as equals.

That is something that has not, does not ant will not happen while Kosovo is a part of Serbia.
I believe that is a new concept for Serbian government (something they cannot digest yet).
I guess that all Serbian politicians missed the lecture “how to treat your citizens as equal” during their studies.
It does seem though that all of them attended the “lets shoot them” lecture.

That is exactly where Serbia as a state went wrong.
Please do not expect loyalty from the same people you repress, expel, torture and kill.

Well done Mr Kostunica! I'm joking of course! Who in their right mind would want a Serbia run by the likes of this man in the EU? Before you all start, I am 100% in favour of Serbia joining the EU, and taking its rightful place at the head of the Balkan table. I believe that the EU will not forsake the Serbian people just because of one crank, who for the time being is the PM, and MR K knows that. People of Serbia, please have patience and EU membership will arrive swiftly as will the benefits, such as wealth, freedom of movement ( not only in the EU ), ECHR, integration and a safe future for all.
Tadic is man who seems to care for the dignity of Serbia, and will do what he can to retain Kosovo. He will not however make threats to the EU and rely on a Russia that will never really be there for Serbia should push come to shove. Tadic, seems to be a voice of reason for all sides, and he is right, the youth of Sebia is waht is important now, so let them take their place in the EU. Russia's friendship would be one sided and occasional. Look at Belarussia for example.....not exactly thriving is it?

I know join Belorussians and Russians in Orthodox Slavic unity lets see how far Serbia gets and the progress it makes. You might have same points of views and lot to talk about. That maybe good for a while and Kostunica should head the organization as supreme president of it. Personally I think the EU is overrated the countries that join it lose their sovereignty and freedom big time for a few more dollars with big attachments to it coming from Brussels.

To: franklin de vrieze:

Excellent comment Mr. de Vrieze.
These comments are very rare these days in this forum that more or less has turned into a pan where, posters vomit their nationalistic propaganda against the people of Kosova.
However, Mr. Vrieze, to understand the mindset of Kostunica, just look at the comments on this site and you will see how people could be blind enough to even harm themselves with their actions.
Kostunica? He is simply a classical representation of Balkan politicians who would sacrifice the future of an entire generation for few more months in the their office. Kostunica knows that EU membership excludes leaders like him.

The question is why would Vojin Dimitrijević et al want Serbia to be part of a European Union that ignores its Sovereignity and territorial integrity?

Would be very pleased to hear a rational reason for this but I guess they fail to respond to this!

Of course if the EU respect Serbia's sovereignity then Kostunica will be only too happy to progress with SAA - as do 70% of the population who said they would join only on this condition of territorial integrity! Kostunica is respecting the wish of the majority who do not want Serbia forcefully partitioned as the EU "few" would wish they could do for US foreign policy wish.

JK


I live in America... but you guys dont understand something.. the people living in Serbia honest to God think that they beat you if you dont accept money or something.

Get real.. my moms brother wanted his wife to come and work in america for 6 months.. and when asked how much he wanted her to make he said something around 30,000 dollars HAHAHAHAHA... get real man the west is not all that great I have lived in Canada and America and there both nice but there not SO MUCH better than Serbian standard of living.

JK,

I did live in Serbia for a while, my wife was born there and my son has citizenship. Yeah, I was born in the US (not my fault) but I plan to use my position to save up cash to invest back in Serbia, so I’m working here for the moment.

Those of us in the West understand the pitfalls of places like the EU intimately. We are probably some of those best qualified to discuss some issues and to give advice.

Personally, I have yet to see the EU emerge from its experimental stage. Those countries that recently joined have had merely “second class” status. Already a backlash against immigration is starting in the more developed EU countries. How is the EU going to function? Is the rule of law going to be dictated by the larger stronger countries without input from the smaller newer countries? Right now, Germany, France and the UK seem like they believe they are authorized to make all decisions involved in EU policies. Clearly, the EU as it’s currently constructed is not viable and they need to ratify a new constitution. I suspect it may end up very much like the first attempt at forming a Union in the US. In order for the EU to function it will need a strong central government.

If Serbia’s economy is not developed enough to compete on even footing with Western companies, Serbia will be swallowed, lock stock and barrel, and you better believe that. Serbia still has a lot of work to do first.

Its best at this point in time to keep an open economy and most importantly, control over it. Free Trade agreements should be sought out with sympathetic countries in the West. Serbia has free trade agreements with Russia, and should continue to be a trading partner between Russia and France. Serbia should foster such economic concerns with other countries as well, its beneficial for the entire region. Russia is a European country in its own right, why not be the bridge between East and West and Serbia can take over Tito’s former role in that. A strong Russia in the EU will bring true and lasting balance between East & West in the EU, its only natural. It is not a choice between one or the other.

All I know is there are still so many uncertainties about the long term stability of the EU and whatever benefits might or might not come at this late stage. Had Serbia been one of the first, it would be different. At this point the EU really does in fact need Serbia more than Serbia needs it. They already talk about Serbia as if they own it, and act like it too.

I just think Serbia might find it a lot easier to join the EU than leave it once it does.

Play it safe Serbia, now is just not the time just yet…

Blero said, "Please do not expect loyalty from the same people you repress, expel, torture and kill."

Likewise from the Serbs of Kosovo to the Albanians.

Franklin De Vrieze: There are a couple things I think you should have included in respect of your well written post.

First of all, you listed many factors to explain Kosovo's weak rule of law. Somehow, you forgot the #1 factor, which is the Albanians' desire to eliminate the presence of Serbs and non Albanians in the area. Look at the link to see what I mean.
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=1296

Moreover, you attribute Kosovo's lack of justice to institutional youth yet the country of Albania which was created in 1913 has in that almost 100 year timespan dubiously established one of the most corrupt and lawless societies in the world. According to Transparency International it is listed in third place with Kosovo right behind it in 4th.

Furthermore your remarks, "and now the international community...wants to tackle the problem," doesn't inspire any confidence considering these international forces have been running Kosovo for over 8 years now.

Also, the fact you reference the term recounquer in reference to Serbia's past shows you really don't understand the history of the region.

Not to mention the fact that
In conclusion, I do not think the EU mission will be any more successful or any different than UNMIK, simply because because there is no willingness to confront the real issues in the region, as well as the fact it will be the same countries running the show.

That is exactly where Serbia as a state went wrong.
Please do not expect loyalty from the same people you repress, expel, torture and kill.
(Blero, 7 January 2008 16:02)

To Blero -
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

To all the Serbian posters on B92 who oppose Serbia EU integration: You seem to speak very good English. Is that because you live in UK/US/Australia etc?

Stop speaking on behalf of other people. When you come and live here in Serbia then you can talk!!!

The main role of government is to protect its citizens from attack from hostile neighbours. If a country has been under attack for nearly 20 years, as is the case with Serbia, then one could not expect its economy grow as fast as Slovenia which has never been attacked by anyone.

The West, including the entire EU, tried to starve Serbia during the 1990s through cruel and unjust economic sanctions. They failed, but Serbia’s economy suffered. In 1999 The Americans, aided and abetted by much of the EU bombed Serbian industry to bits and caused serious damage to infrastructure which has needed to be repaired. This too has had a devastating effect on the Serbian economy.

I am no fan of politicians in Serbia (certainly not the DOS variety) but it is going too far to blame them for Serbia’s economic woes while ignoring the role played by American and the EU to “bring Serbia to its knees” as the then German Foreign Minister, Klaus Kinkel, demanded in 1992.

What exactly are the economic benefits that the EU will bring to Serbia? A few cheap loans and work permits for Serbia’s intelligentsia to come and join Poles and Rumanians working as cleaners and labourers in the West.

To Blero -
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
(GSP, 7 January 2008 17:51)

GSP,
Very nice analogy, I like that.
I must remember that and maybe use it in my future comments.

No denying, Kosovo Albanians lived in a glass house.
Two things though.
They did not live there by their choice. That was imposed.
And secondly, if you read my comment properly you will definitely see that it is not Albanians that did the stone throwing. It was the other side that did the shooting from the outside.

Kostunica wants to join the EU. That is a fact. This talk of him not wanting it is only for the purpose of taking votes away from the radicals and socialists.

" “It’s an expression of the view that we do not belong there, and that Serbia’s traditional allies are not present there.” "

He is entitled to his opinion, however all I hope is that he listens to what the people want (if this means EU membership, then he must be prepared to give this to his people), more so than these traditional alliances and historical allusions. The past is important, and it has to be a part of a state's identity (one cannot forget one's history), but it cannot dictate the future of the state, especially not against the will of the people. People want to develop, if the majority of Serbs see this through EU membership, then the PM must be prepared to act in the interests of the people, as their representative. Now the EU is not perfect (I don't think it has wholly been in Poland's interest or to their benefit to join the EU), though I see the Kosovo Albanians are literally itching to be a part of it, but Kostunica cannot deny it to his people if it is something they want, especially not over Kosovo, which is lost and in Albanian hands (which will not change, unless Serbia does you know what, which has cost them already in the past).

Vojin Dimitrejevic's comment is the most perceptive I have so far picked up.

He correctly turns the old cliche upside down. Instead of accepting the argument that Kostunica et al. are rejecting European Community materialist bribes in favor of nationalist idealism, he suggests that nationalist idealism is, itself, really just a pretext for rejecting membership in a capitalist free market community which the Serbian nationalist-left not surprisingly sees as a threat. This is basically a continuation of the old Milosevic policy.

In other words, the loss of Kosovo is really just a political football or red herring. The real issue facing the Serbian electorate is whether to chose membership in a multinational capitalist EU or to return to some form of national communism. The "lost past" is actually not 1389 at all but rather 1948!

Thank you for injecting some clarity and reason in this highly emotional debate, Mr Dimitrejevic!

the serbs should have known this. vk only cares about that seat of his. he could care less about his own people. nobody in serbia really cares about kosova, anyway. he can talk all he wants about not joining the eu. kosova will be free regardless.

Serbia can survive without the EU.. we are better than that.. we are not Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia or Albania who depend on others as much.. our economy is a little better than that.


There are alternitives.. alternitives that will lead us with friendships with countries who respect us as equals.

SAY NO TO THE EU.
(Nikola, 7 January 2008 21:53)


-And where do you live Nikola? Survive is the only thing we will do without EU integration.

it is interesting to hear the main attacks against dimitrijevic ivolve his work supporting human rights (how radical), and his being paid by "the west." and which serbian institution or govt leader is going to support a group dedicated to human rights, and offer them even one dinar?? come one, get real folks. personally i do not care what Kostunica REAlly wants -- does he or doesn't he want eu membership? that should not be the question. the question should be, does a strong majority INside serbia want their lives to improve, and thus to form closer ties w the eu. if the answer is "yes," then i think citizens there should speak their minds and actively push for positive change, rather than letting such "fine" politicians dictate the terms of their lives.

"Get real.. my moms brother wanted his wife to come and work in america for 6 months.. and when asked how much he wanted her to make he said something around 30,000 dollars HAHAHAHAHA... get real man the west is not all that great I have lived in Canada and America and there both nice but there not SO MUCH better than Serbian standard of living."

Nicola, now you are just talking rubbish. The standard of living in North America (US and Canada) is far better than those regions in the Balkans. Your bills are higher but look at all the supplies that are at your finger tips. Just think about the quality of heat, water, electricity, cars, food, health,. etc, etc...

Look at the infrastructure and which is superior.

How about resources and future untapped resources?

All these comments that the EU needs Serbia more than Serbia needs the EU are getting a little bit ridiculous. The EU has made a commitment to the western balkan nations that they will be able to join. If they turn that down that is their issue. For the EU it will mean an extra border to patrol, but that is about it.
Romania and Bulgaria have only been members for a year, so the first initial improvements are still occurring. In my opinion they were admitted too early, but for countries that were far poorer than Serbia in 1990, they have now caught you up, and will overtake you. The problem in Serbia is your politicians, they are too quick to blame outside forces (i.e. the EU). In truth very few national problems are ever the fault of outside forces, but governments like to blame something else from outside as an easy scapegoat - we do it with the EU in the UK all the time - but that doesn't make it correct. Since 1990 Slovenia's GDP has roughly multiplied by 5 - that is Serbia has remained static. Slovenia started from a higher point, but we are talking purely about growth so that shouldn't matter. That can only be due to your politicians, as if ou had wanted you could have had similar oportunities to Slovenia. Other ex eastern bloc nations have also made similar progress, helped greatly by the promise of EU membership. Serbia still has a similar cabal of politicians as it had in the 90's. until you change them and move on the same mistakes and false accusations of blame will continue. But if you want to isolate yourselves and reject the EU and become a belorussia like state, then that is due to your own massochistic streak, and no one can help you.

"What exactly are the economic benefits that the EU will bring to Serbia? A few cheap loans and work permits for Serbia’s intelligentsia to come and join Poles and Rumanians working as cleaners and labourers in the West."

This is true in a way Michael Thomas, however the infrastructure and economy of Serbia would definitely improve significantly if it became a part of the EU. Roads, telecommunications, services, availability of goods, banking, decentralization of government institutions, free movement of people and goods... these are all big advantages. Sure, many Poles and Romanians go overseas to do manual work, this is not because they cannot create a living for themselves in their countries, they only do it because they can earn much more money and because the West is more developed, hence "easier" to live in. If Serbia cut itself off from the EU bloc, Serbs would go there anyway.

Well done Mr Kostunica! I'm joking of course! Who in their right mind would want a Serbia run by the likes of this man in the EU? Before you all start, I am 100% in favour of Serbia joining the EU, and taking its rightful place at the head of the Balkan table. I believe that the EU will not forsake the Serbian people just because of one crank, who for the time being is the PM, and MR K knows that. People of Serbia, please have patience and EU membership will arrive swiftly as will the benefits, such as wealth, freedom of movement ( not only in the EU ), ECHR, integration and a safe future for all.
Tadic is man who seems to care for the dignity of Serbia, and will do what he can to retain Kosovo. He will not however make threats to the EU and rely on a Russia that will never really be there for Serbia should push come to shove. Tadic, seems to be a voice of reason for all sides, and he is right, the youth of Sebia is waht is important now, so let them take their place in the EU. Russia's friendship would be one sided and occasional. Look at Belarussia for example.....not exactly thriving is it?

those that treat us as equals.

(Dragan, 7 January 2008 13:29)

Dragan,

You’ve just hit the nail on the head with that comment.
Unfortunately, that kind of comment should come from Kosovo Albanians.
That is the exact reason Kosovo Albanians want Independence.
Only in the independent Kosovo they will be treated as equals.

That is something that has not, does not ant will not happen while Kosovo is a part of Serbia.
I believe that is a new concept for Serbian government (something they cannot digest yet).
I guess that all Serbian politicians missed the lecture “how to treat your citizens as equal” during their studies.
It does seem though that all of them attended the “lets shoot them” lecture.

That is exactly where Serbia as a state went wrong.
Please do not expect loyalty from the same people you repress, expel, torture and kill.

Vojin Dimitrejević comments reveal a fundamental choice which Serbia will have to make in the coming months and during 2008: to engage with the European Union as its natural partner, as all other neighbours do, or to look towards the East for a long-distance relationship with an icy partner. Not to engage with the EU would be most harmful for the citizens of Serbia, not for the EU. However, the choice is only worth the effort if Serbia is really committed to leave the old way of thinking behind and not to try to reconquer what has been lost already long time ago.
As far as Kosovo is concerned, I'm astonished by the exclusivity-paradigma put forward: either SSA with Serbia or EU Rule of Law Mission in Kosovo. If I recall correctly, it was Serbia who was one of the most vocal criticizers of the rule of law record in Kosovo. The weak rule of law in Kosovo has many reasons, such as the relative young institutions searching for capable human resources to tackle the issue, establishing the legal and legislative framework, the strong informal and invisible networks, cross-border cooperation of organized crime-groups, insufficient domestic political will to seriously tackle the issue, lack of prioritarization of the international community. And now... the international community, alongside an important segment of local stakeholders in Kosovo, wants to tackle the issue. The EU Rule of Law Mission intends to adress the issue in a structural and substantial way, with long term commitment. Wouldn't Serbia be happy? But it seems now that Serbia strongly opposes the new Mission. There might always be reasons for Serbia to disagree with developments in Kosovo, but on this one - the Rule of Law Mission - I can't see how Serbia can contradict and harm itself more.

To: franklin de vrieze:

Excellent comment Mr. de Vrieze.
These comments are very rare these days in this forum that more or less has turned into a pan where, posters vomit their nationalistic propaganda against the people of Kosova.
However, Mr. Vrieze, to understand the mindset of Kostunica, just look at the comments on this site and you will see how people could be blind enough to even harm themselves with their actions.
Kostunica? He is simply a classical representation of Balkan politicians who would sacrifice the future of an entire generation for few more months in the their office. Kostunica knows that EU membership excludes leaders like him.

I fail to see the relevance of this NGO director's comments (he is yet another nobody whose comments B92 wishes to publish). Kostunica should keep doing what he is doing, which is defending the law and sovereignty of sacred Serbian land, which is Kosovo. Those who pretend to be our 'friends', by offering us all kinds of carrots while at the same time supporting the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo and the illegal and immoral formation of a 'greater albania' need to know that Serbia will not accept to be treated like this. We will stick with our true friends, those that treat us as equals.
Hristos se Rodi!!
Merry Christmas everyone, and may you and your loved ones be blessed with peace, love, good health, and lots of prosperity.

Vojin Dimitrejevic's comment is the most perceptive I have so far picked up.

He correctly turns the old cliche upside down. Instead of accepting the argument that Kostunica et al. are rejecting European Community materialist bribes in favor of nationalist idealism, he suggests that nationalist idealism is, itself, really just a pretext for rejecting membership in a capitalist free market community which the Serbian nationalist-left not surprisingly sees as a threat. This is basically a continuation of the old Milosevic policy.

In other words, the loss of Kosovo is really just a political football or red herring. The real issue facing the Serbian electorate is whether to chose membership in a multinational capitalist EU or to return to some form of national communism. The "lost past" is actually not 1389 at all but rather 1948!

Thank you for injecting some clarity and reason in this highly emotional debate, Mr Dimitrejevic!

I know join Belorussians and Russians in Orthodox Slavic unity lets see how far Serbia gets and the progress it makes. You might have same points of views and lot to talk about. That maybe good for a while and Kostunica should head the organization as supreme president of it. Personally I think the EU is overrated the countries that join it lose their sovereignty and freedom big time for a few more dollars with big attachments to it coming from Brussels.

why does a director for a center of human rights care about the political-economic future-orientation of Serbia?

or is that NGO just another paid proxy for foreign interests?

I don´t think that Serbia should enter the EU either, for various reasons albeit I think that Serbia will enter it anyway.

once again, B92 chooses to publish an article against the government of Serbia.

why did B92 not publish the quite interesting lines of an high-ranked US-military in the washington times?

is it, because he´s calling for a change of american policy in the balkans?

Dimitrijević is the paid mouthpiece of the Americans and Germans. All his money, every penny, comes from EU and American governments.

When he tells us that in a recent poll that 70% of Serbians supported EU entry we must consider that the Serbian public never hears any criticism of the EU in the Serbia Press or on TV.

Serbia has no freedom of the Press.

In Serbia, privately owned newspapers, radio and TV (including B92) are financed directly or indirectly by Western governments (I am not sure if this applies to TV Pink).

The state-controlled media is largely in the hands of Western financed DOS supporters.

How can the average Serb form a judgement about the pros and cons of EU membership when the pros are always exaggerated and the cons never mentioned.

the serbs should have known this. vk only cares about that seat of his. he could care less about his own people. nobody in serbia really cares about kosova, anyway. he can talk all he wants about not joining the eu. kosova will be free regardless.

Serbia can survive without the EU.. we are better than that.. we are not Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia or Albania who depend on others as much.. our economy is a little better than that.


There are alternitives.. alternitives that will lead us with friendships with countries who respect us as equals.

SAY NO TO THE EU.
(Nikola, 7 January 2008 21:53)


-And where do you live Nikola? Survive is the only thing we will do without EU integration.

it is interesting to hear the main attacks against dimitrijevic ivolve his work supporting human rights (how radical), and his being paid by "the west." and which serbian institution or govt leader is going to support a group dedicated to human rights, and offer them even one dinar?? come one, get real folks. personally i do not care what Kostunica REAlly wants -- does he or doesn't he want eu membership? that should not be the question. the question should be, does a strong majority INside serbia want their lives to improve, and thus to form closer ties w the eu. if the answer is "yes," then i think citizens there should speak their minds and actively push for positive change, rather than letting such "fine" politicians dictate the terms of their lives.

To Blero -
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
(GSP, 7 January 2008 17:51)

GSP,
Very nice analogy, I like that.
I must remember that and maybe use it in my future comments.

No denying, Kosovo Albanians lived in a glass house.
Two things though.
They did not live there by their choice. That was imposed.
And secondly, if you read my comment properly you will definitely see that it is not Albanians that did the stone throwing. It was the other side that did the shooting from the outside.

Kostunica wants to join the EU. That is a fact. This talk of him not wanting it is only for the purpose of taking votes away from the radicals and socialists.

That is exactly where Serbia as a state went wrong.
Please do not expect loyalty from the same people you repress, expel, torture and kill.
(Blero, 7 January 2008 16:02)

To Blero -
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Franklin De Vrieze: There are a couple things I think you should have included in respect of your well written post.

First of all, you listed many factors to explain Kosovo's weak rule of law. Somehow, you forgot the #1 factor, which is the Albanians' desire to eliminate the presence of Serbs and non Albanians in the area. Look at the link to see what I mean.
http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=1296

Moreover, you attribute Kosovo's lack of justice to institutional youth yet the country of Albania which was created in 1913 has in that almost 100 year timespan dubiously established one of the most corrupt and lawless societies in the world. According to Transparency International it is listed in third place with Kosovo right behind it in 4th.

Furthermore your remarks, "and now the international community...wants to tackle the problem," doesn't inspire any confidence considering these international forces have been running Kosovo for over 8 years now.

Also, the fact you reference the term recounquer in reference to Serbia's past shows you really don't understand the history of the region.

Not to mention the fact that
In conclusion, I do not think the EU mission will be any more successful or any different than UNMIK, simply because because there is no willingness to confront the real issues in the region, as well as the fact it will be the same countries running the show.

To all the Serbian posters on B92 who oppose Serbia EU integration: You seem to speak very good English. Is that because you live in UK/US/Australia etc?

Stop speaking on behalf of other people. When you come and live here in Serbia then you can talk!!!

" “It’s an expression of the view that we do not belong there, and that Serbia’s traditional allies are not present there.” "

He is entitled to his opinion, however all I hope is that he listens to what the people want (if this means EU membership, then he must be prepared to give this to his people), more so than these traditional alliances and historical allusions. The past is important, and it has to be a part of a state's identity (one cannot forget one's history), but it cannot dictate the future of the state, especially not against the will of the people. People want to develop, if the majority of Serbs see this through EU membership, then the PM must be prepared to act in the interests of the people, as their representative. Now the EU is not perfect (I don't think it has wholly been in Poland's interest or to their benefit to join the EU), though I see the Kosovo Albanians are literally itching to be a part of it, but Kostunica cannot deny it to his people if it is something they want, especially not over Kosovo, which is lost and in Albanian hands (which will not change, unless Serbia does you know what, which has cost them already in the past).

Yes Lenard the EU is very over rated. Lets look at a few things...

lets even try to erase the fact that they want to strip land away from us that has been ours while there land were filled of barbaric tribes, and the fact that they illegally bombed us for 78 days.

The EU is still no good. In return for giving up Kosovo we get even more less soverignty by joining the oh mighty EU. Lets look at Romania, Bulgaria.. I do not see them any better than they were last year.

The EU does work, that is no debate.. but the EU works when your France, Germany, Italy and the U.K. The EU does not work if your Romania, Bulgaria........ Serbia.

The EU calls for opening borders. Look, I am not a anti immagration nut job... but take a look at our neighbours to the south... if we do that.. Beograd becomes Pristina in 25 years. They will first get Nis then Kragujevac then Beograd and finally Vojvodina.

Serbia can survive without the EU.. we are better than that.. we are not Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia or Albania who depend on others as much.. our economy is a little better than that.


There are alternitives.. alternitives that will lead us with friendships with countries who respect us as equals.

SAY NO TO THE EU.

"Get real.. my moms brother wanted his wife to come and work in america for 6 months.. and when asked how much he wanted her to make he said something around 30,000 dollars HAHAHAHAHA... get real man the west is not all that great I have lived in Canada and America and there both nice but there not SO MUCH better than Serbian standard of living."

Nicola, now you are just talking rubbish. The standard of living in North America (US and Canada) is far better than those regions in the Balkans. Your bills are higher but look at all the supplies that are at your finger tips. Just think about the quality of heat, water, electricity, cars, food, health,. etc, etc...

Look at the infrastructure and which is superior.

How about resources and future untapped resources?

The EU has lost popularity among the population of the member states according to a poll that was broadcasted on EuroNews. There are many people suffering due to the inflation as well as other high standards, that may seem reasonable, but aren't really looked at by the council as a whole. There are many residents of the member states that are struggling beyond belief to purchase daily needs to survive.

http://www.euronews.net/index.php?page=pass&article=462266&lng=1#

Why should we join? The Cyprus example is a very good one & obviously something that was grossly overlooked by all. Why should we put the future of our country in the hands of the EU which allowed Greek Cyprus a streamlined green light entry based on no borders?

This has been the epitomes carrot dangling in front of us for too long. So in essence it's good that we were able to sit on the sidelines & learn from other countries mistakes.

The definition of European integration is not joining a smug club like the EU who has 27 members.

Europe in whole has more than 27 countries and to say you are not Europe or integrated into Europe because you are not in this club is nonsense!

The EU is good to 6 or 7 of its members, the rest are not enjoying the benefits promised to them when they first joined. The top 6 or 7 are feeding off of the 20 or 21 other members, bleeding them dry!

This Union was first created to counter the American influence in Europe both politically and financially, even militarily, it has achieved the financially part as evident from the strong Euro but at the expense of about 20 EU members. As for politically, and militarily the EU is useless, it has been infiltrated by the Americans and its the Americans that dictate policy to the EU.

Blero said, "Please do not expect loyalty from the same people you repress, expel, torture and kill."

Likewise from the Serbs of Kosovo to the Albanians.

The question is why would Vojin Dimitrijević et al want Serbia to be part of a European Union that ignores its Sovereignity and territorial integrity?

Would be very pleased to hear a rational reason for this but I guess they fail to respond to this!

Of course if the EU respect Serbia's sovereignity then Kostunica will be only too happy to progress with SAA - as do 70% of the population who said they would join only on this condition of territorial integrity! Kostunica is respecting the wish of the majority who do not want Serbia forcefully partitioned as the EU "few" would wish they could do for US foreign policy wish.

JK


I live in America... but you guys dont understand something.. the people living in Serbia honest to God think that they beat you if you dont accept money or something.

Get real.. my moms brother wanted his wife to come and work in america for 6 months.. and when asked how much he wanted her to make he said something around 30,000 dollars HAHAHAHAHA... get real man the west is not all that great I have lived in Canada and America and there both nice but there not SO MUCH better than Serbian standard of living.

JK,

I did live in Serbia for a while, my wife was born there and my son has citizenship. Yeah, I was born in the US (not my fault) but I plan to use my position to save up cash to invest back in Serbia, so I’m working here for the moment.

Those of us in the West understand the pitfalls of places like the EU intimately. We are probably some of those best qualified to discuss some issues and to give advice.

Personally, I have yet to see the EU emerge from its experimental stage. Those countries that recently joined have had merely “second class” status. Already a backlash against immigration is starting in the more developed EU countries. How is the EU going to function? Is the rule of law going to be dictated by the larger stronger countries without input from the smaller newer countries? Right now, Germany, France and the UK seem like they believe they are authorized to make all decisions involved in EU policies. Clearly, the EU as it’s currently constructed is not viable and they need to ratify a new constitution. I suspect it may end up very much like the first attempt at forming a Union in the US. In order for the EU to function it will need a strong central government.

If Serbia’s economy is not developed enough to compete on even footing with Western companies, Serbia will be swallowed, lock stock and barrel, and you better believe that. Serbia still has a lot of work to do first.

Its best at this point in time to keep an open economy and most importantly, control over it. Free Trade agreements should be sought out with sympathetic countries in the West. Serbia has free trade agreements with Russia, and should continue to be a trading partner between Russia and France. Serbia should foster such economic concerns with other countries as well, its beneficial for the entire region. Russia is a European country in its own right, why not be the bridge between East and West and Serbia can take over Tito’s former role in that. A strong Russia in the EU will bring true and lasting balance between East & West in the EU, its only natural. It is not a choice between one or the other.

All I know is there are still so many uncertainties about the long term stability of the EU and whatever benefits might or might not come at this late stage. Had Serbia been one of the first, it would be different. At this point the EU really does in fact need Serbia more than Serbia needs it. They already talk about Serbia as if they own it, and act like it too.

I just think Serbia might find it a lot easier to join the EU than leave it once it does.

Play it safe Serbia, now is just not the time just yet…

All these comments that the EU needs Serbia more than Serbia needs the EU are getting a little bit ridiculous. The EU has made a commitment to the western balkan nations that they will be able to join. If they turn that down that is their issue. For the EU it will mean an extra border to patrol, but that is about it.
Romania and Bulgaria have only been members for a year, so the first initial improvements are still occurring. In my opinion they were admitted too early, but for countries that were far poorer than Serbia in 1990, they have now caught you up, and will overtake you. The problem in Serbia is your politicians, they are too quick to blame outside forces (i.e. the EU). In truth very few national problems are ever the fault of outside forces, but governments like to blame something else from outside as an easy scapegoat - we do it with the EU in the UK all the time - but that doesn't make it correct. Since 1990 Slovenia's GDP has roughly multiplied by 5 - that is Serbia has remained static. Slovenia started from a higher point, but we are talking purely about growth so that shouldn't matter. That can only be due to your politicians, as if ou had wanted you could have had similar oportunities to Slovenia. Other ex eastern bloc nations have also made similar progress, helped greatly by the promise of EU membership. Serbia still has a similar cabal of politicians as it had in the 90's. until you change them and move on the same mistakes and false accusations of blame will continue. But if you want to isolate yourselves and reject the EU and become a belorussia like state, then that is due to your own massochistic streak, and no one can help you.

The main role of government is to protect its citizens from attack from hostile neighbours. If a country has been under attack for nearly 20 years, as is the case with Serbia, then one could not expect its economy grow as fast as Slovenia which has never been attacked by anyone.

The West, including the entire EU, tried to starve Serbia during the 1990s through cruel and unjust economic sanctions. They failed, but Serbia’s economy suffered. In 1999 The Americans, aided and abetted by much of the EU bombed Serbian industry to bits and caused serious damage to infrastructure which has needed to be repaired. This too has had a devastating effect on the Serbian economy.

I am no fan of politicians in Serbia (certainly not the DOS variety) but it is going too far to blame them for Serbia’s economic woes while ignoring the role played by American and the EU to “bring Serbia to its knees” as the then German Foreign Minister, Klaus Kinkel, demanded in 1992.

What exactly are the economic benefits that the EU will bring to Serbia? A few cheap loans and work permits for Serbia’s intelligentsia to come and join Poles and Rumanians working as cleaners and labourers in the West.

"What exactly are the economic benefits that the EU will bring to Serbia? A few cheap loans and work permits for Serbia’s intelligentsia to come and join Poles and Rumanians working as cleaners and labourers in the West."

This is true in a way Michael Thomas, however the infrastructure and economy of Serbia would definitely improve significantly if it became a part of the EU. Roads, telecommunications, services, availability of goods, banking, decentralization of government institutions, free movement of people and goods... these are all big advantages. Sure, many Poles and Romanians go overseas to do manual work, this is not because they cannot create a living for themselves in their countries, they only do it because they can earn much more money and because the West is more developed, hence "easier" to live in. If Serbia cut itself off from the EU bloc, Serbs would go there anyway.