Activist paints grim picture of human rights

This "description" fits most Western countries including the United States. The notion of Multiculturalism where every culture, religion, ethnic group is equal exists only in spirit and never in practice. Why do think the minorities in France were rioting? Serbia is for Serbians and as a whole Serbians treat their minorities better than Serbs are treated when they are the minority!

That's europe people. It's not good but that's how europe rolls. Some are alittle more better than others. The whole of europe is divided among ethnic lines & everyone is better than the next. So be for Lenard, Joe & the Albanian side of the line start ripping Serbia, Serbia has more minorities than any other Balkan country (not to mention the most refuges in europe) & under the current situation its doing its best. And it will only get better with time. The first place we should start to improve the non-existent minority rights is you guessed it Kosovo. The way it looks now a UDI will solve the problem. The remaining minorities will leave, and all sides know this, including the IC.

You're right BH NYC. One shouldn't compare Serbia's human rights with Sudan and Turkey. Just compare them to Bosnia, Croatia, and Albanian Kosovo.

Me Me Me said, "Makes you wonder why any non Serb would want to consider a life in Serbia."

If Serbia is so bad than why is it one of the most multi-ethnic countries in Europe? Also, if Serbs are so intent on discrimination and ethnic cleansing, why are there still hundreds of thousands of Albanians, Croatians, and Muslims still living there. Compare their lives and numbers to Serbs living in southern Kosovo, Bosnian Federation, and Krajina.

Before this becomes a shouting match between Albanians and their supporters saying "yeah, Serbia sucks", and Serbs and their supporters saying "oh yeah? It's 10 times better than that you're doing to our people in Kosovo", let me say that this report is both realistic and universal.

It is realistic in that there is discrimination in Serbia, and while there is no overt pogroms against any one ethnicity like we would see in places like Sudan or Turkey, prejudice is there and exists just below the surface - even between Serbs of different regions it is there.

But it is also universal in that similar cases of discrimination exists in more "western" countries too. The north-south divide in Italy is plain everytime I go there with more affluent northerners thumbing their noses as anyone from Naples on south. Even in the United States, there is a tendency for white Americans to seek "loyalty" in the hearts and minds of immigrants, the constant pressure to "speak English" (of which I admit I'm a fan of) and a genuine fear of non-Judeo Christians. In many places of America, atheists are just as hated as Devil Worshippers, and this presidential campaign is already describing the candidates as "Mormon" "Baptist", "pro-Choice" and other such differential modifiers.

So human rights, along the criteria painted by Dimitrijević are not exclusive to Serbia or any other country or region of the world. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it a perennial problem. Please guys, before you put on the mantle of moral righteousness and point the finger at others, take the time to see the universality of it.

You are wrong BH. Take a look at the U.S. Congress and the U.S. House of Representatives, how many minority faces do you see? It's pretty much old white men, and some old white women. The thing about the West, if you have the money, you can purchase your equality, if not you are looked down upon.

I'm from the United States, and I can say that Mike really hit the nail on the head with his post.

To Serbs and pro-Serbs,

You cant't pick on Wests's imperfections and excuse what Dimitrijević is saying. When Dimitrijević says 'ethnic minorities in Serbia are seriously and gravely discriminated against' he clearly differentiates Serbia's problems from those you might find in the West.
You should also bear in mind that Serbia does not border Sudan, Siria... comparing these countries is just a failed attempt to try and polish the grim picture we're all seeing.

"If Serbia is so bad than why is it one of the most multiethnic countries of Europe?"
Nicholas Klinsman


Well I can list you the long list of reasons:
- It is not a free choice for the Serbs but a tolerated, inherited fact, tolerated due to international considerations and circonstences. If it would be uniquely up to the Serbs there would be no other ethnic groups in Serbia.
- Those ethnic groups are poor with meager possessions. Where would they migrate as paupers? To the EU? They are not citizens of EU countries.
- "The EU should accept them" would argue the Serbs. Why to reward a sort of ethnic cleansing this way?
- Those ethnic groups live there for centuries, some of them like the Hungarians of Vojvodina for some 1000 years. It is there home. Why should they live to "please" the Serbs that way?

And by the way people in civilized countries know well these reasons. You can not dupe them.

Serbia wouldn't be so "multi-ethnic" had it not annexed the province of Vojvodina after WW1 from Austro-Hungaria. Each decade since then Serbia has become less "multi-ethnic" due to a rigirous policy of colonisation of Vojvodina in which Serbs went from 20% of the province's population in 1920 to around 80% today of its population. Its quite obvious by Mr Dimitrijević's comments that Serbia still pursues in a discrete manner a policy of discrimination in an effort to continue making Serbia more homogenous.

Joe said..."All the Serbs on this site tried to deny it days in days out in 2007."

Gee Joe...are you being unduly influenced by a poster who calls himself Victor as well as André, Kébec, Kanada, Mensa, Arthur, Julien, Laurent or Apostrophe? Maybe you know him.
By using generalizations such as “all Serbs”(a signature of Victor et al) to attempt to discredit everything and everyone Serbian is discriminatory on your part.

While I agree with Mike who said…”Please guys, before you put on the mantle of moral righteousness and point the finger at others, take the time to see the universality of it”... I will further add by saying to people like Joe- take the time to look at yourself first.

The U.S. doesn't have any Albanian language Universities nor is it sponsoring Albanian newspapers and radio shows.

This guy is paid by the west to say bad things and make a big deal over nothing.

Unlike in the neighboring countries, like Hungary, the Slovaks of Serbia still know and speak their mother tongue. In the other countries people lose their mother tongue in a couple generations. Even the names of ethnic groups in Greece and other countries are converted into that language and not the original spelling and pronounciation.

Ethnic minorities in Serbia are seriously and gravely discriminated against when he says: "Serbs are number one" Members of minorities are second rate citizens who, unlike Serbs, must continuously prove their allegiance to the state."

Makes you wonder why any non Serb would want to consider a life in Serbia.

It's for this reason why Serbia's proposal of autonomy will never work. Equal rights are everyone's entitlement. I beginning to think that Serbia's Goal is stability in Serbia only and instability elsewhere.

To Zoran Re:
'This "description" fits most Western countries including the United States. '

I live in a western country and I'm being treated much better than I was whhen I lived in YU. The "description" does not fit western countries.

PS. I've missed a 'this' at the end of the second sentence in my previous comment.

It is not because Serbs invited the minorities like in Vojodina. It is the Hapsburg empire that invited them and settle them their. Or the Hungarians they just contentiously extend from Hungary and they were on the wars losing side and had their borders cropped just like the Bulgarians and Albanians added to Serbia. Just like it is happening to Serbia now on the losing side of horrendously dirty wars that they started. Dose any one feel sorry for the Germans that where thrown out in the millions from eastern Europe or from Vojodina and the horrendous murders committed by their political, leaders and military. Or the Slavic Muslims converted by a blood tax by the Ottoman empire. That Serbs use derogatory names for and most Serbs treat as Turks don't differentiate between the two and excuse to carry on 400 year old vengeance battles to this day and treat them less then human. Just because you have minorities it dosent mean they are treated as equal citizens with the same opportunity's in society or are not discriminated or oppressed against by the majority. Lot of the Serb politicians inflame those differences with impunity and they have a large following and support among Serbs.

I totally agree with Mr Dimitrijević. Modern world will not tolerate. Rehn was right saying that Serbia is at crossroads, but it looks like she's turned east and the picture will only get grimmer.

Perfect definition and reason why Kosova should be free of Serbia and why Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro all separated from serb dominated belgrade.

Long behold discrimination exist - specially ethnic one - in Serbia! Is it possible? All the Serbs on this site tried to deny it days in days out in 2007. Now some of them try to minimize it that "It is really not so bad" or it is not AS BAD as in Sudan or Turkey (I agree with that) or as Delije thinks more minorities means logically more discrimination. But the most confusing is our dear friend Peterpaul. From the daily Serbian life he flies over to the US Capitol under the program "Great Escape" and can not find there any African-American or Hispano-American face. He tries to make believe that the "black
coccus" does not exist. Well we all had fun on the site in 2007. In the New Year it will most likely be the same.
I profite of this occasion to wish everyone of you a wonderful New year!

SinCity - your figures on Vojvodina are incorrect.

Serbs were the largest single group in the 1921 census making up 35% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina

In the last census Serbs made up 65% - no where near the 80% you claim.

PJD, your figures only further confirm my point. Therefore in less than a century Serbs went from a 1/3 minority in Vojvodina to a 2/3 majority. If that isn't proof of planned colonisation then I dont know what is. Serbs cannot scream at the loss of Kosovo when they have blatantly and deliberately shifted the ethnic balance of Vojvodina in their favour ..... My point proven with your facts.

I totally agree with Mr Dimitrijević. Modern world will not tolerate. Rehn was right saying that Serbia is at crossroads, but it looks like she's turned east and the picture will only get grimmer.

Ethnic minorities in Serbia are seriously and gravely discriminated against when he says: "Serbs are number one" Members of minorities are second rate citizens who, unlike Serbs, must continuously prove their allegiance to the state."

Makes you wonder why any non Serb would want to consider a life in Serbia.

It's for this reason why Serbia's proposal of autonomy will never work. Equal rights are everyone's entitlement. I beginning to think that Serbia's Goal is stability in Serbia only and instability elsewhere.

To Zoran Re:
'This "description" fits most Western countries including the United States. '

I live in a western country and I'm being treated much better than I was whhen I lived in YU. The "description" does not fit western countries.

PS. I've missed a 'this' at the end of the second sentence in my previous comment.

Perfect definition and reason why Kosova should be free of Serbia and why Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro all separated from serb dominated belgrade.

To Serbs and pro-Serbs,

You cant't pick on Wests's imperfections and excuse what Dimitrijević is saying. When Dimitrijević says 'ethnic minorities in Serbia are seriously and gravely discriminated against' he clearly differentiates Serbia's problems from those you might find in the West.
You should also bear in mind that Serbia does not border Sudan, Siria... comparing these countries is just a failed attempt to try and polish the grim picture we're all seeing.

Long behold discrimination exist - specially ethnic one - in Serbia! Is it possible? All the Serbs on this site tried to deny it days in days out in 2007. Now some of them try to minimize it that "It is really not so bad" or it is not AS BAD as in Sudan or Turkey (I agree with that) or as Delije thinks more minorities means logically more discrimination. But the most confusing is our dear friend Peterpaul. From the daily Serbian life he flies over to the US Capitol under the program "Great Escape" and can not find there any African-American or Hispano-American face. He tries to make believe that the "black
coccus" does not exist. Well we all had fun on the site in 2007. In the New Year it will most likely be the same.
I profite of this occasion to wish everyone of you a wonderful New year!

"If Serbia is so bad than why is it one of the most multiethnic countries of Europe?"
Nicholas Klinsman


Well I can list you the long list of reasons:
- It is not a free choice for the Serbs but a tolerated, inherited fact, tolerated due to international considerations and circonstences. If it would be uniquely up to the Serbs there would be no other ethnic groups in Serbia.
- Those ethnic groups are poor with meager possessions. Where would they migrate as paupers? To the EU? They are not citizens of EU countries.
- "The EU should accept them" would argue the Serbs. Why to reward a sort of ethnic cleansing this way?
- Those ethnic groups live there for centuries, some of them like the Hungarians of Vojvodina for some 1000 years. It is there home. Why should they live to "please" the Serbs that way?

And by the way people in civilized countries know well these reasons. You can not dupe them.

It is not because Serbs invited the minorities like in Vojodina. It is the Hapsburg empire that invited them and settle them their. Or the Hungarians they just contentiously extend from Hungary and they were on the wars losing side and had their borders cropped just like the Bulgarians and Albanians added to Serbia. Just like it is happening to Serbia now on the losing side of horrendously dirty wars that they started. Dose any one feel sorry for the Germans that where thrown out in the millions from eastern Europe or from Vojodina and the horrendous murders committed by their political, leaders and military. Or the Slavic Muslims converted by a blood tax by the Ottoman empire. That Serbs use derogatory names for and most Serbs treat as Turks don't differentiate between the two and excuse to carry on 400 year old vengeance battles to this day and treat them less then human. Just because you have minorities it dosent mean they are treated as equal citizens with the same opportunity's in society or are not discriminated or oppressed against by the majority. Lot of the Serb politicians inflame those differences with impunity and they have a large following and support among Serbs.

This "description" fits most Western countries including the United States. The notion of Multiculturalism where every culture, religion, ethnic group is equal exists only in spirit and never in practice. Why do think the minorities in France were rioting? Serbia is for Serbians and as a whole Serbians treat their minorities better than Serbs are treated when they are the minority!

That's europe people. It's not good but that's how europe rolls. Some are alittle more better than others. The whole of europe is divided among ethnic lines & everyone is better than the next. So be for Lenard, Joe & the Albanian side of the line start ripping Serbia, Serbia has more minorities than any other Balkan country (not to mention the most refuges in europe) & under the current situation its doing its best. And it will only get better with time. The first place we should start to improve the non-existent minority rights is you guessed it Kosovo. The way it looks now a UDI will solve the problem. The remaining minorities will leave, and all sides know this, including the IC.

Before this becomes a shouting match between Albanians and their supporters saying "yeah, Serbia sucks", and Serbs and their supporters saying "oh yeah? It's 10 times better than that you're doing to our people in Kosovo", let me say that this report is both realistic and universal.

It is realistic in that there is discrimination in Serbia, and while there is no overt pogroms against any one ethnicity like we would see in places like Sudan or Turkey, prejudice is there and exists just below the surface - even between Serbs of different regions it is there.

But it is also universal in that similar cases of discrimination exists in more "western" countries too. The north-south divide in Italy is plain everytime I go there with more affluent northerners thumbing their noses as anyone from Naples on south. Even in the United States, there is a tendency for white Americans to seek "loyalty" in the hearts and minds of immigrants, the constant pressure to "speak English" (of which I admit I'm a fan of) and a genuine fear of non-Judeo Christians. In many places of America, atheists are just as hated as Devil Worshippers, and this presidential campaign is already describing the candidates as "Mormon" "Baptist", "pro-Choice" and other such differential modifiers.

So human rights, along the criteria painted by Dimitrijević are not exclusive to Serbia or any other country or region of the world. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it a perennial problem. Please guys, before you put on the mantle of moral righteousness and point the finger at others, take the time to see the universality of it.

You are wrong BH. Take a look at the U.S. Congress and the U.S. House of Representatives, how many minority faces do you see? It's pretty much old white men, and some old white women. The thing about the West, if you have the money, you can purchase your equality, if not you are looked down upon.

I'm from the United States, and I can say that Mike really hit the nail on the head with his post.

You're right BH NYC. One shouldn't compare Serbia's human rights with Sudan and Turkey. Just compare them to Bosnia, Croatia, and Albanian Kosovo.

Me Me Me said, "Makes you wonder why any non Serb would want to consider a life in Serbia."

If Serbia is so bad than why is it one of the most multi-ethnic countries in Europe? Also, if Serbs are so intent on discrimination and ethnic cleansing, why are there still hundreds of thousands of Albanians, Croatians, and Muslims still living there. Compare their lives and numbers to Serbs living in southern Kosovo, Bosnian Federation, and Krajina.

Serbia wouldn't be so "multi-ethnic" had it not annexed the province of Vojvodina after WW1 from Austro-Hungaria. Each decade since then Serbia has become less "multi-ethnic" due to a rigirous policy of colonisation of Vojvodina in which Serbs went from 20% of the province's population in 1920 to around 80% today of its population. Its quite obvious by Mr Dimitrijević's comments that Serbia still pursues in a discrete manner a policy of discrimination in an effort to continue making Serbia more homogenous.

Joe said..."All the Serbs on this site tried to deny it days in days out in 2007."

Gee Joe...are you being unduly influenced by a poster who calls himself Victor as well as André, Kébec, Kanada, Mensa, Arthur, Julien, Laurent or Apostrophe? Maybe you know him.
By using generalizations such as “all Serbs”(a signature of Victor et al) to attempt to discredit everything and everyone Serbian is discriminatory on your part.

While I agree with Mike who said…”Please guys, before you put on the mantle of moral righteousness and point the finger at others, take the time to see the universality of it”... I will further add by saying to people like Joe- take the time to look at yourself first.

The U.S. doesn't have any Albanian language Universities nor is it sponsoring Albanian newspapers and radio shows.

This guy is paid by the west to say bad things and make a big deal over nothing.

Unlike in the neighboring countries, like Hungary, the Slovaks of Serbia still know and speak their mother tongue. In the other countries people lose their mother tongue in a couple generations. Even the names of ethnic groups in Greece and other countries are converted into that language and not the original spelling and pronounciation.

SinCity - your figures on Vojvodina are incorrect.

Serbs were the largest single group in the 1921 census making up 35% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina

In the last census Serbs made up 65% - no where near the 80% you claim.

PJD, your figures only further confirm my point. Therefore in less than a century Serbs went from a 1/3 minority in Vojvodina to a 2/3 majority. If that isn't proof of planned colonisation then I dont know what is. Serbs cannot scream at the loss of Kosovo when they have blatantly and deliberately shifted the ethnic balance of Vojvodina in their favour ..... My point proven with your facts.