EU backs dialogue, rules out new talks

The EU are acting like lapdogs to corrupt US lobby groups. However, on the bright side, without UN approval, 'greater albania' or any redrawing of borders will never happen. The Russian and Chinese veto guarantee that Kosovo will legally remain Serbian. This means that Serbia can bide its time and wait for the right moment to take Kosovo back. Serbs will not, nor should they be, good neighbours. Stealing someone's land is an act of aggression and should be treated as such.
In the mean time, Serbs in Bosnia will absolutely declare independence the moment that Kosovo is recognized by some countries. Republika Srpska will hold a referendum and will vote overwhelmingly to join Serbia. They will then stick this double standard in the face of Europe and the Americans, and will declare independence. Russia and Serbia will recognize this independence, followed by other countries. This of course will be followed by lots of other minorities all over the world declaring independence, which means that international law will turn into a chaotic 'law of the jungle'.

Doni,
We Serbs are not interested in 'Kosova'. As I have said many times, 'Kosova' are Bantu speaking people who inhabit the Kisii district of western Kenya. I am flattered that you think the Serbian influence reaches as far away as Kenya, so thank you.
As for Kosovo, that is the cradle of Serbian civilization, has always been Serbian, and will always be Serbian. Don't you forget that :).
Cheers!

This is hog wash how can the EU supplement UNmik with a completely different purpose. UNmik is mandated by Res. 1244, with very specific guidelines, then the EU will enter Kosovo along side UNmik to implement a whole set of different guidelines as specified in the yet to be Authorized (Russian Veto) Athsari Plan.

The article says

"It has been reported that the EU, U.S. and UN are collaborating on an undisclosed plan that would address all legal, operation, and political stages in the approval of a form of independence for Kosovo."

What report ? Where has it been reported? How can the UN collaborate with Russia and China be aware of the collaboration? To recognize a "FORM OF INDEPNDANCE". What does FORM of Independence mean? IS IT INDEPENDANCE OR NOT?

Coincidentally, can someone tell me what the Unilateral recognition by a few Western countries of a Illegal (outside the Security Counsel and UN Charter) Unilateral Declaration of a coordinated "Supervised Independence" means. Are they recognizing the supervised part or the independence part? How long will the supervised part take? What kind of status is this? In Ahtisaari's Plan it was conditioned on the return of refuges and their integration into society, and yes silly me the establishment of the RULE of LAW. How long is it going to take to return the 40,000 ethnically cleansed Serbs to their Pristina Homes and integrate them into society? There isn't a single Serb citizen living in the capital today. How can any territory profess readiness for independence when they cannot secure safety for 40,000 citizen in its own capital? How about the rest of the 2500,000 ethnically cleansed SERB and ROMA citizens? They are citizens right? They can't all be war criminals?The Legalistic Europeans would certainly not want to deny them their rights. Recently, the Hague ruled that the Srebranica Victims could sue the Dutch and the UN for their failure. I am certain that the EU would not want to be liable for not allowing the 250,000 ethnically cleansed citizens of Kosovo, all under the watchful eye of NATO, to return to their rightful homes. What about the remaining Serbs and Roma, is NATO going to use force as peacekeepers to force them to accept this illegal succession? How Long will the supervised part take? Will there then be another whole series of recognitions of the Independence part after supervision ends? Will the supervised part ever end? Will the KLA drive NATO out then? There are many pitfalls to a Non Negotiated settlement.

Similarly, Unilateral Declaration of a coordinated "Supervised Independence" will not resole the sovereignty question, when it comes to direct foreign investment. Sure the US and the EU will provide some funds and I am sure they will secure you hefty loans, but they won't be able to convince any large corporations, to take a chance, that nobody will show up to court, holding a deed, wanting restitution for stolen property. How Long will the the Supervised part take? I know that many of you in Kosovo are suffering very much on both sides, I am sorry for your suffering, but my cynicism is not directed at you, but rather at the cavalier attitude that your leaders have exhibited throughout the negotiating process. Res.. 1244 was and is the only valid, legal document and no matter how you massage it, twist it, flip it you get back to Serbia's Sovereignty. But there wont be any final status until there is a Negotiated Settlement between the Parties within the framework of Res. 1244 and in the UN Security Counsel. You wont be recognized by the UN. A few European nations wills recognize your "supervised independence". The EU will supervise your Special Status, but will not be able to accept you into its ranks because of sovereignty questions. Will Serbia by then be a member of the EU?

Legaleye is absolutely right - logically and legally.

Sunny - your attempts to put him/ her down with comments like "you have many questions you dont understand and that is purely because you are not privy nor learned in the art of interpreting a contract (resolution) at the highest level" is like reading a critique by Charles Schulz about a Dickens novel.

One thing I am absolutely sure about is that any distortion of Resolution 1244 is totally illegal. Europe is very hot on bureaucracy and law, and following the path of Clinton and Blair in the late 90s by breaking international laws is something that most of the EU countries feel deeply unsettled about.

This article says to me that any 'plan' by the EU, even if it does get through by illegal means, is not for independence at all but for some watered down version of Ahtisaari's Plan (ie. a supervised protectorate). That will mean that nobody wins - the Kosovo Albanians, Serbs, the UN, the EU or the European taxpayer.

There can be no deployment of any EU mission unless accepted by Serbia and the UN. Anything else will be illegal, no matter how it's presented. It will lead to mayhem and political instability not just in Europe but beyond.

And the logical question I keep on asking: Why is one ethnic group demanding 'independence' when it is flying the flag of another nation altogether? That is not independence.

That is the equivalent of Mexicans demanding the independence of California so that they could become a Mexican province. If they wish to represent their ethnicity they can do so within the sovereign boundaries of their own nation.

To legal eye
What is attempted by USA and
EU is coupd'etat against
the UN charter.The same thing happened against Iraq
with thousands of Iraquis
dead and with the country
totally destroyed.Has any
EU leader accepted any
responsibility? Both Bush and
Blair admitted that they were
talking to god before they
attacked Iraq.As to the Indians(metaphor) that followed them history will
judge them as little men.The
same judgement will be passed
on them in the case of kosovo.

EU, US, AND UN!!!! UN involves Russia and China. If their concerns are just swept under the rug and they realise that UN is 100% biased then whats the point of it existing anymore. As for EU unity... the less said the better. EU currently comprises of England France and Germany. Everyone else is still beggin for a new UN resolution. So its just the US. Needless to say US has been doomed since 2003 and its just going to remain a shadow of its former self. Hence why now they are saying by June 2008 (maybe).

I caanot believe that some people here are still mentioning ridiculous things like "will of the people", if you mean people like the US, EU, then that's a different story. The entire Kosovo incident was planned and designed for the benefit of the US and the EU. All other comments are ridiculous. The breakup of Yugoslavia was the desire of the West, and Tearing Kosovo away from Serbia is the last piece of the unsolved puzzle. I am sure that it will happen but, the independence will be like kissing your sister - it's nice but, no big thrill. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it.

Martin Denovich, I doubt very much whether many serbs at all are interested in joining NATO, especially those who were in serbia in 1999. Also there would be very few serbs who spell their surname with an 'h' on the end unless they are born in america,australia or britain, ie anglicized serbs, your sensitivity to criticism of the US seems to suggest you fall into this category. I doubt if many serbs would share your opinion about legaleyes posts which are well thought out, well informed, make sense and seem to be based on legal facts as they stand.

"The entire Kosovo incident was planned and designed for the benefit of the US and the EU....The breakup of Yugoslavia was the desire of the West, and Tearing Kosovo away from Serbia is the last piece of the unsolved puzzle."

I agree. Countries (or those in power) have no friends, the have only interests.

doni, ..
you seem to live..still in some century long ago..

you do not need many poeple to lead an armed conflict today...

haven´t you realized that by now?

wake up, my dear friend.

and ...do not worry, there won´t be fighting, since the K-albanians know very well they would lose more than they could achieve...

I am a fan of negotiated settlements but if there is nothing to negotiate then dot loose time find a alternative solution. It is fortunate, for Albanians and Serbs, that most of the world has realised that negotiations in this instance are exhausted and there has come the time to go with the will of the majority of population of Kosova.
It is really proving very difficult to build a country form scratch but not impossible, many have done it, so K-Albanians can do it too. It is difficult since Kosova has to deal with sabotage coming from Serbia but, it things are moving ahead since the will of population to become independent is so great.
I would like to remain positive that the new state in Europe Kosova will contribute to stability in region and further.

PEACE

Martin Denovich, I feel the same way about the utterances of fellow Kosovars here who speak of breaking away from Serbia.

Everyone knows that it would be far better for us all to stick together. We should be moving forward as one people.

When I said earlier: "That is the equivalent of Mexicans demanding the independence of California so that they could become a Mexican province. If they wish to represent their ethnicity they can do so within the sovereign boundaries of their own nation."

That came out really wrong - what I meant was that people should be free to celebrate their ethnicity within the boundaries of whichever country they live. They don't need to create an independent state to do that!

The EU said their final word, Kosova will get it's indenpendance one way or another, it's just a question will the Serbia acept it as a normal otcome of recent situation and act like a good neighboor should act in such a case, or they will go in harder way of noncooperation.

Legaleye, you have many questions you dont understand and that is purely because you are not privy nor learned in the art of interpreting a contract (resolution) at the highest level. all your questions will be revealed when its completed, these lawyers have an understanding of what they are doing at least better than any one on this site, pity b92 dont contract a lawyer to comment how its possible for both side to interpret 1244 and how it works.... if its possible, surely its with in the law, obviously there is enough for europe who r not predjudiced by the out come to make a desicion in favour of independance and for the USA to not feel threatend

legaleye,
Please stop embarrassing the rest of us Serbs with your ridiculous statements denying the foregone conculsion of Kosovo independence.

At delicate times like these with Serbia attempting to enter both NATO and the EU your ideas which critisize the US and the EU do nothing to help Serbia's cause. In fact, your utterences only make other Serbs shudder with embarressment.

@ dragan

do you really think there would be a right time for serbia to take Kosova?
never.
with an Albanian increasing population in Kosova, serbia and other neighboring countries, you will never be able to threaten anyone.

Where are the normal people Serbian and Albanian whom suffer the most from the current situation.99% of people here (including me) are full of hot air and really do not help the situation through dialog they simply repeat the same old one sided borderline hate speech that just makes them look foolish.The fact of the matter is not matter what happen es life still needs to go on.I really believe deep down that if the US/Germany/NATO/EU stayed out and leaders from both sides with no forced out come sat down and talked we could have a partition with the power and water staying on in the south and trade continuing.It is too easy to feed into hate because each side has legitimate grievances does no rational person see that a independence where one side wins all and one loses all cannot work and it will guarantee conflict in the future.Anyone can point out the problems but not one person here has tried to talk solution.People America/NATO stirred this up and it works mainly in their benefit to keep the two sides full of hate and anger and conflict so they can justify their presence in SE Europe.Both sides are pawns and it is sad.This technique of backing and funding a restive minority is a textbook CIA game plan and both sides are more than happy to keep it going when it is ALWAYS the normal poor people on both sides that suffer from the results.

Why is everyone getting upset on Christmas can it not be 1 day without bickering and back biting. Our savior came here 2000 years ago to pay our price to heaven. The UN and EU are working a plan with revisions!!!!! I thought they said the AAthsari Plan would not have revisions? Well i am sure they are trying to be fair to all and even if there were no negoitations everyone will think it will all be happy and nice. But before it gets better it is going to get worse. Kosovo asking NATO to protect that big lake, they must be worried about something because next thing it will be protect the Trepca mines which Kosovo will not see a dime of that money. sorry to say. Remember the EU is in Control especially Germany who before caused Havoc in Europe twice and here it is again causing havoc yet again. The US turned on of it's allies in both WW1 and WW2 remember Albania was with the axis powers big players(Germany and Italy) Who is pumping all this money into Kosovo or spear heading the effort? Kosovo is being duped like albania was duped by the Chinese. I don't remember the Serbian Party member's name but he stood up in Parliment and said give them(Kosovo Albanians) Kosovo they will run to Serbia for help. KEK cannot produce enough power to provide the country. During the air war did Kosovo every lose power? No one wants to answer that question. after the EU has taken what they came for the minerals deposite etc. when they have been totally screwed over they will ask for help from Serbia. I know this is a long post and i hope B92 will publish this.

happy holidays

The EU said their final word, Kosova will get it's indenpendance one way or another, it's just a question will the Serbia acept it as a normal otcome of recent situation and act like a good neighboor should act in such a case, or they will go in harder way of noncooperation.

I am a fan of negotiated settlements but if there is nothing to negotiate then dot loose time find a alternative solution. It is fortunate, for Albanians and Serbs, that most of the world has realised that negotiations in this instance are exhausted and there has come the time to go with the will of the majority of population of Kosova.
It is really proving very difficult to build a country form scratch but not impossible, many have done it, so K-Albanians can do it too. It is difficult since Kosova has to deal with sabotage coming from Serbia but, it things are moving ahead since the will of population to become independent is so great.
I would like to remain positive that the new state in Europe Kosova will contribute to stability in region and further.

PEACE

@ dragan

do you really think there would be a right time for serbia to take Kosova?
never.
with an Albanian increasing population in Kosova, serbia and other neighboring countries, you will never be able to threaten anyone.

legaleye,
Please stop embarrassing the rest of us Serbs with your ridiculous statements denying the foregone conculsion of Kosovo independence.

At delicate times like these with Serbia attempting to enter both NATO and the EU your ideas which critisize the US and the EU do nothing to help Serbia's cause. In fact, your utterences only make other Serbs shudder with embarressment.

This is hog wash how can the EU supplement UNmik with a completely different purpose. UNmik is mandated by Res. 1244, with very specific guidelines, then the EU will enter Kosovo along side UNmik to implement a whole set of different guidelines as specified in the yet to be Authorized (Russian Veto) Athsari Plan.

The article says

"It has been reported that the EU, U.S. and UN are collaborating on an undisclosed plan that would address all legal, operation, and political stages in the approval of a form of independence for Kosovo."

What report ? Where has it been reported? How can the UN collaborate with Russia and China be aware of the collaboration? To recognize a "FORM OF INDEPNDANCE". What does FORM of Independence mean? IS IT INDEPENDANCE OR NOT?

Coincidentally, can someone tell me what the Unilateral recognition by a few Western countries of a Illegal (outside the Security Counsel and UN Charter) Unilateral Declaration of a coordinated "Supervised Independence" means. Are they recognizing the supervised part or the independence part? How long will the supervised part take? What kind of status is this? In Ahtisaari's Plan it was conditioned on the return of refuges and their integration into society, and yes silly me the establishment of the RULE of LAW. How long is it going to take to return the 40,000 ethnically cleansed Serbs to their Pristina Homes and integrate them into society? There isn't a single Serb citizen living in the capital today. How can any territory profess readiness for independence when they cannot secure safety for 40,000 citizen in its own capital? How about the rest of the 2500,000 ethnically cleansed SERB and ROMA citizens? They are citizens right? They can't all be war criminals?The Legalistic Europeans would certainly not want to deny them their rights. Recently, the Hague ruled that the Srebranica Victims could sue the Dutch and the UN for their failure. I am certain that the EU would not want to be liable for not allowing the 250,000 ethnically cleansed citizens of Kosovo, all under the watchful eye of NATO, to return to their rightful homes. What about the remaining Serbs and Roma, is NATO going to use force as peacekeepers to force them to accept this illegal succession? How Long will the supervised part take? Will there then be another whole series of recognitions of the Independence part after supervision ends? Will the supervised part ever end? Will the KLA drive NATO out then? There are many pitfalls to a Non Negotiated settlement.

Similarly, Unilateral Declaration of a coordinated "Supervised Independence" will not resole the sovereignty question, when it comes to direct foreign investment. Sure the US and the EU will provide some funds and I am sure they will secure you hefty loans, but they won't be able to convince any large corporations, to take a chance, that nobody will show up to court, holding a deed, wanting restitution for stolen property. How Long will the the Supervised part take? I know that many of you in Kosovo are suffering very much on both sides, I am sorry for your suffering, but my cynicism is not directed at you, but rather at the cavalier attitude that your leaders have exhibited throughout the negotiating process. Res.. 1244 was and is the only valid, legal document and no matter how you massage it, twist it, flip it you get back to Serbia's Sovereignty. But there wont be any final status until there is a Negotiated Settlement between the Parties within the framework of Res. 1244 and in the UN Security Counsel. You wont be recognized by the UN. A few European nations wills recognize your "supervised independence". The EU will supervise your Special Status, but will not be able to accept you into its ranks because of sovereignty questions. Will Serbia by then be a member of the EU?

Legaleye, you have many questions you dont understand and that is purely because you are not privy nor learned in the art of interpreting a contract (resolution) at the highest level. all your questions will be revealed when its completed, these lawyers have an understanding of what they are doing at least better than any one on this site, pity b92 dont contract a lawyer to comment how its possible for both side to interpret 1244 and how it works.... if its possible, surely its with in the law, obviously there is enough for europe who r not predjudiced by the out come to make a desicion in favour of independance and for the USA to not feel threatend

To legal eye
What is attempted by USA and
EU is coupd'etat against
the UN charter.The same thing happened against Iraq
with thousands of Iraquis
dead and with the country
totally destroyed.Has any
EU leader accepted any
responsibility? Both Bush and
Blair admitted that they were
talking to god before they
attacked Iraq.As to the Indians(metaphor) that followed them history will
judge them as little men.The
same judgement will be passed
on them in the case of kosovo.

The EU are acting like lapdogs to corrupt US lobby groups. However, on the bright side, without UN approval, 'greater albania' or any redrawing of borders will never happen. The Russian and Chinese veto guarantee that Kosovo will legally remain Serbian. This means that Serbia can bide its time and wait for the right moment to take Kosovo back. Serbs will not, nor should they be, good neighbours. Stealing someone's land is an act of aggression and should be treated as such.
In the mean time, Serbs in Bosnia will absolutely declare independence the moment that Kosovo is recognized by some countries. Republika Srpska will hold a referendum and will vote overwhelmingly to join Serbia. They will then stick this double standard in the face of Europe and the Americans, and will declare independence. Russia and Serbia will recognize this independence, followed by other countries. This of course will be followed by lots of other minorities all over the world declaring independence, which means that international law will turn into a chaotic 'law of the jungle'.

Where are the normal people Serbian and Albanian whom suffer the most from the current situation.99% of people here (including me) are full of hot air and really do not help the situation through dialog they simply repeat the same old one sided borderline hate speech that just makes them look foolish.The fact of the matter is not matter what happen es life still needs to go on.I really believe deep down that if the US/Germany/NATO/EU stayed out and leaders from both sides with no forced out come sat down and talked we could have a partition with the power and water staying on in the south and trade continuing.It is too easy to feed into hate because each side has legitimate grievances does no rational person see that a independence where one side wins all and one loses all cannot work and it will guarantee conflict in the future.Anyone can point out the problems but not one person here has tried to talk solution.People America/NATO stirred this up and it works mainly in their benefit to keep the two sides full of hate and anger and conflict so they can justify their presence in SE Europe.Both sides are pawns and it is sad.This technique of backing and funding a restive minority is a textbook CIA game plan and both sides are more than happy to keep it going when it is ALWAYS the normal poor people on both sides that suffer from the results.

Legaleye is absolutely right - logically and legally.

Sunny - your attempts to put him/ her down with comments like "you have many questions you dont understand and that is purely because you are not privy nor learned in the art of interpreting a contract (resolution) at the highest level" is like reading a critique by Charles Schulz about a Dickens novel.

One thing I am absolutely sure about is that any distortion of Resolution 1244 is totally illegal. Europe is very hot on bureaucracy and law, and following the path of Clinton and Blair in the late 90s by breaking international laws is something that most of the EU countries feel deeply unsettled about.

This article says to me that any 'plan' by the EU, even if it does get through by illegal means, is not for independence at all but for some watered down version of Ahtisaari's Plan (ie. a supervised protectorate). That will mean that nobody wins - the Kosovo Albanians, Serbs, the UN, the EU or the European taxpayer.

There can be no deployment of any EU mission unless accepted by Serbia and the UN. Anything else will be illegal, no matter how it's presented. It will lead to mayhem and political instability not just in Europe but beyond.

And the logical question I keep on asking: Why is one ethnic group demanding 'independence' when it is flying the flag of another nation altogether? That is not independence.

That is the equivalent of Mexicans demanding the independence of California so that they could become a Mexican province. If they wish to represent their ethnicity they can do so within the sovereign boundaries of their own nation.

EU, US, AND UN!!!! UN involves Russia and China. If their concerns are just swept under the rug and they realise that UN is 100% biased then whats the point of it existing anymore. As for EU unity... the less said the better. EU currently comprises of England France and Germany. Everyone else is still beggin for a new UN resolution. So its just the US. Needless to say US has been doomed since 2003 and its just going to remain a shadow of its former self. Hence why now they are saying by June 2008 (maybe).

Doni,
We Serbs are not interested in 'Kosova'. As I have said many times, 'Kosova' are Bantu speaking people who inhabit the Kisii district of western Kenya. I am flattered that you think the Serbian influence reaches as far away as Kenya, so thank you.
As for Kosovo, that is the cradle of Serbian civilization, has always been Serbian, and will always be Serbian. Don't you forget that :).
Cheers!

doni, ..
you seem to live..still in some century long ago..

you do not need many poeple to lead an armed conflict today...

haven´t you realized that by now?

wake up, my dear friend.

and ...do not worry, there won´t be fighting, since the K-albanians know very well they would lose more than they could achieve...

I caanot believe that some people here are still mentioning ridiculous things like "will of the people", if you mean people like the US, EU, then that's a different story. The entire Kosovo incident was planned and designed for the benefit of the US and the EU. All other comments are ridiculous. The breakup of Yugoslavia was the desire of the West, and Tearing Kosovo away from Serbia is the last piece of the unsolved puzzle. I am sure that it will happen but, the independence will be like kissing your sister - it's nice but, no big thrill. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it.

"The entire Kosovo incident was planned and designed for the benefit of the US and the EU....The breakup of Yugoslavia was the desire of the West, and Tearing Kosovo away from Serbia is the last piece of the unsolved puzzle."

I agree. Countries (or those in power) have no friends, the have only interests.

Martin Denovich, I feel the same way about the utterances of fellow Kosovars here who speak of breaking away from Serbia.

Everyone knows that it would be far better for us all to stick together. We should be moving forward as one people.

When I said earlier: "That is the equivalent of Mexicans demanding the independence of California so that they could become a Mexican province. If they wish to represent their ethnicity they can do so within the sovereign boundaries of their own nation."

That came out really wrong - what I meant was that people should be free to celebrate their ethnicity within the boundaries of whichever country they live. They don't need to create an independent state to do that!

Martin Denovich, I doubt very much whether many serbs at all are interested in joining NATO, especially those who were in serbia in 1999. Also there would be very few serbs who spell their surname with an 'h' on the end unless they are born in america,australia or britain, ie anglicized serbs, your sensitivity to criticism of the US seems to suggest you fall into this category. I doubt if many serbs would share your opinion about legaleyes posts which are well thought out, well informed, make sense and seem to be based on legal facts as they stand.

Why is everyone getting upset on Christmas can it not be 1 day without bickering and back biting. Our savior came here 2000 years ago to pay our price to heaven. The UN and EU are working a plan with revisions!!!!! I thought they said the AAthsari Plan would not have revisions? Well i am sure they are trying to be fair to all and even if there were no negoitations everyone will think it will all be happy and nice. But before it gets better it is going to get worse. Kosovo asking NATO to protect that big lake, they must be worried about something because next thing it will be protect the Trepca mines which Kosovo will not see a dime of that money. sorry to say. Remember the EU is in Control especially Germany who before caused Havoc in Europe twice and here it is again causing havoc yet again. The US turned on of it's allies in both WW1 and WW2 remember Albania was with the axis powers big players(Germany and Italy) Who is pumping all this money into Kosovo or spear heading the effort? Kosovo is being duped like albania was duped by the Chinese. I don't remember the Serbian Party member's name but he stood up in Parliment and said give them(Kosovo Albanians) Kosovo they will run to Serbia for help. KEK cannot produce enough power to provide the country. During the air war did Kosovo every lose power? No one wants to answer that question. after the EU has taken what they came for the minerals deposite etc. when they have been totally screwed over they will ask for help from Serbia. I know this is a long post and i hope B92 will publish this.

happy holidays