EC: Serbia's European future in her own hands

I agree with Jovan. Serbia must not enter EU because it does not need to do so. Serbia is way too strong and powerful country to be part of that evilish group of nations. It would be better if Serbia created a union with Russia and Bielorussia because it shares with them values of culture, democratic values, love for individual freedoms, freedom of speech, memories of lost battles, and all that good stuff that follows. Cuba and North Korea might join in later. Also, 'The Band of Dead Leaders' that beutifies the streets of Belgrade with their posters, can be the Union mascott. Yes, that should do it.

I do also think that Serbia´s future is within the EU...but it is in EU´s hands when this will happen.

so far, economically there is no need for a quick accession, there is the CEFTA-treaty, and Serbia is right in the middle of the CEFTA-region...

Serbia´s economic future is secured.

clean cut: I think Serbs and Russians just like many other European countries can be very proud of their history and culture.

Also, the fact that Serbia can form good relations with both the EU, Russia, and Asia speaks volumes about the resourcefulness of her people. In fact Serbia just concluded a deal to sell $230 million dollars worth of aircraft equipment to IRAQ. That wouldn't have been possible without someone in Washington winking ok.

The bottom line is that despite the difficulties Serbs faced in the 90's, they are moving ahead. And, futhermore they can do it without kissing other people's boots.

The EU will never be complete without Serbia, being the citadel of the Balkans. So amuse us EU by all means what do you have to offer the Citizens of Serbia?

10-12 Billion Euros a year? We expect to be paid to join.

Peter, I agree with you that
Serbia should have good relations with EU and the US julst like with Russia.
How do you think this is possible when the UE and US have virtually declared war on Serbia?

If someone you want to be friends with, blackmails you into giving your property away for the sake of friendship would you want that friendship then?

You sound like Serbs don't want to be friendly to EU and US. They do but are not given a chance to become equal members. Either you dismember your country and give some to our pals or you are going to be seen as the difficult one.

Now Peter, be fair. Would you accept those terms. Wouldn't you then turn your attention to people who are prepared to take your interests seriously and help you defend them? We all know what the ideal is but good relations should come without extreme demands.

Serbia should demand that it is treated as an equal sovereign state from other member states of the EU. Joining the EU as second class citizens, exploited and discriminated against for the benefit of some member states 'special relationship' with the US and Kosovo Albanian's aspirations is not acceptable.

Why can't the Kosovo Albanians on this site understand that they can have independence but that does NOT include ownership of Kosovo which already belongs to Serbia. If they don't like living in Serbia they can vote with their feet and leave!

Serbia doesn't need the EU, but it certainly can benefit greatly from it (of course it is not an overnight process, but it helps greatly by speeding up the process of economic development that would take Serbia a lot longer to achieve as is now). I cannot see how it would benefit Serbia to isolate itself from the EU. This stupid idea of whether to choose good relations with either the "East" (Russia, China etc.) or "West" (America, EU etc.) is really quite primitive thinking. The Cold War is over (this goes to both Serbs and Albanians, who I am sorry, but appear to have this view that they must either choose sides against the tyrannic "East" or the soon to be economically insignificant "West". Grow up people, it is better to have good relations with everyone, isn't it? Or is it some Balkan thing?)!

As a Pole, I am glad my country has is part of the EU and a strong US ally (perhaps a bit too strong, but Tusk is soothing that), but also that we are trying to mend broken relations with Russia. In the future I hope we will have strong relations and good trade with both these "sides". Serbs and Albanians should want the same.

Good joke Clean Cut. I almost believed you were serious at the beginning.

Serbia doesn't need to join the EU. Ity should follow the Swiss model. Switzerland is not a member and greatly benefits from the EU.

What a bluff. It is not Danube that flows through Serbia, it is Rhein-Mein -Danube-Black Sea waterway, EU's jugular.
Not to mention E5 route and railway routes.

From strategic economic standpoint, a free zone outside of EU, smack dab in the middle of EU territory makes a lot of sense. Serbia could easily become a trade hub between EU and the rest of emerging world.

Once in EU, Serbia has no signifficance.

As a Pole, I am glad my country has is part of the EU and a strong US ally (perhaps a bit too strong, but Tusk is soothing that), but also that we are trying to mend broken relations with Russia. In the future I hope we will have strong relations and good trade with both these "sides". Serbs and Albanians should want the same.
Peter
I agree with you, Polands is allied with the right country. It has and it will benefit Poland. I think Serbia can benefit more than Serbs are willing to admit. Perhaps Serbian discontent with EU and US has emotional base. As an Albanian, I give Poles a lot of praise for looking beyond cultural similarities to Russians. I mean, it takes real leaders and real patriots to align their own country with prosperity, democracy, and European values. I wish serbs leaders would do the same for their country. Serbia would benefit the most from it. It is so clear after 1999 that Serbia will never run Kosova again. It is all up to serbs what to do with the story of 1999. What is not aparent to Serb leaders is that stories are always there and it is up to the leaders which story gets adapted. Once the leaders do that the story seems as it has been peoples idea all along. I think if Serbs paid attention to the version of the story that Djindjic tried or even Tadic is trying to tell they might make a better choice. So far it looks like Serbs have chosen an ill suited democracy system (Russia) and a bilionaire dictatot (Putin). This is clearly out of frustration and inability to understand that a nation needs to align their identity with stories that will serve them well and allow for preservation of a culture. There of course is a balance.
As for Kosova, it will be independent. We still have a long way to go in gighting corruption and other cancers that even EU members have to some degree. As an independent state Kosova will use its best sons and daughters to embrace European values and democratic concept. I am sure that we will need EU and US to be present to further guide us.
Kosva is looking forward to joining EU states and enjoy benefits of the community. Lets hope Serbs do the same.

Serbia belongs with those who respect her. And at present that is Russia. Russia has always been our ally throughout history and I think that we should turn to them and not the EU whose main powers Germany and England had effectively trained the KLA in the pursuit of their puppet state of Kosovo. Also we are not being offered the status of an equal soveren member state but a downgraded version designed to get us to sell everything to the EU for nothing at all. We should unite with Russia and I think that if people were given the choice the choice would be clearly Russia.

To all the poster here that keep trying convince Serbia how glorious it would be for her to pay the toll (15% of her territory) of entry in this wonderful club that has done a masterful job of crisis management in the former Yugoslavia, I only have to say one word....ENERGY. All economies are based on cheap exploitation of energy supplies. The higher the energy cost the lower the economic growth. Europe cannot and would not supply Serbia with cheap energy, however Russia will. Not only will Russia supply Serbia with energy, she is going to make Serbia a transshipment hub for oil and gas to Europe. Europe wants to steel the coal of Kosovo. Why would Serbia pay such a high entry fee? European business will come to Serbia of their own account, not because they like Serbia, but because they have to if they want to accomplish anything in the Balkans. Just think Serbia that has suffered 17 yrs of economic sanctions, isolation and war, has an economy arguably on par with Romania and Bulgaria (both EU members). Serbia you have an educated work force, developed institutions and infrastructure and soon to come reliable source of inexpensive energy. Europe needs you more than you need Europe.

PS,

why kosova and albanians should stay in Serbia as second class citiziens?

if serbia doesnt like EU it can go to russia if it wants

“…I give Poles a lot of praise for looking beyond cultural similarities to Russians…” (and allying with a west)
Kastrioti, Poland and Russia where rivaling powers for centuries, they fought against each other many times. Also, Poland identifies itself much more through Catholicism then Slavic culture. So, it wasn’t difficult for Poland to choose. Serb-Russian relations were very different

It's pretty cleat that EU is applying the stick and carrot
principle to Serbia in its
quest to membership.The Serbs
shouldnt accept the errosion
of their land for the promise
of some future membership.

doni

I don't think you read my post properly, you read the first sentence and thought that was the point. Here it is again for you to see:

"Serbia doesn't need the EU, but it certainly can benefit greatly from it (of course it is not an overnight process, but it helps greatly by speeding up the process of economic development that would take Serbia a lot longer to achieve as is now). I cannot see how it would benefit Serbia to isolate itself from the EU."

Serbia has existed for a long time since before the EU, so that's why it doesn't need it, but I did say it can greatly benefit form it and that isolating itself from it would be stupid.

"West is not going to be insignificant, because where will you live then? in china. "

Again, you misunderstand my point. I am quoting the Serb camp who say soon the West will decline economically, I quoted the Albanian camp when they say China, Russia etc. are tyrannic. I was being sarcastic.

About the idealism and realism thing, you are quoting my idea here. I was the one saying how the views are interpreted by both.

KASTRIOTI

I agree with you, but I would also like Poland and the rest of the EU, Serbia and Kosovo to have good relations with Russia as well. I have always dreamed of a united Europe living alongside Russia peacefully.

peggy

I agree with you here as well, but how on earth could it possibly benefit Serbia to isolate itself form the West and rely on Russia, China and other like-minded states? Look at Cuba, North Korea and others who have, it is not a good prospect. Serbia needs everyone (both East and West) if it wants to develop to standards in Europe, unless it sees China and Russia as beacons of development, which they are not (they are developing greatly now, but it will still take a long time).

Stevan

Don't confuse ethnicity and religion. Both Russians and Poles are Slavs, we differ when it comes to religion (not culture so much, our cultures don't differ so much). They are Orthodox (which is not exclusively Slavic, as you have Orthodox Romanians, Armenians, Georgians and Greeks), we are Catholics, that is the main difference. Historically, yes, we fought a lot, we were the two largest and strongest Slavic empires always trying to exert influence on each other by Polonizing or Russifying each others populations when they came under each others control.

Either way, it is in the past. Russia and Poland should have good relations and not live in the past.

If Serbia doesn't want to join, or better yet the Serbian Government since the majority of people want to join....

than, let it be.


PS
Serbia in EU means no way to hide international war criminals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucgg/20071224/cm_ucgg/kosovosnewyearsresolutionindependence

Please read!

Peter @ co

what are you talking?
what are you saying serbia dont need EU, then EU doesnt need serbia 100 times more.
Switzerland is not in EU, but pays to EU budget a lot, for participating and benefiting from EU. Switzerland is not an island in the pacific. they have agreement with EU and they contribute they fair share by paying to EU or other thing.

Peter you and your Co, are dreaming of your side of the fence, but we are one the other side my friend.
West is not going to be insignificant, because where will you live then? in china.
I have told many times that many here dream and are IDEALISTS. nothing can be ideal.
Instead they should be more REALISTS.

why serbia should behave badly and still be allowed to benefit from agreement with all these countries EU, its neighbors, etc?
I told you why not serbia in EU with shortcuts, because they will never appreciate it, they will say EU needed us thats why, we are so good, their attitude is still what dont let them see what is wrong with them.

Peter we both agree that Serbia should have good realitions with the west and Russia.
My point is that the west will NOT allow Serbia to coexist peacefully with them unless Serbia does what it's told. So here is my question to you.
What do you think Serbia should do? Should Serbia give up Kosovo in exchange for friendship with US and EU?
This is the bottom line.

It is not Serbia who are excluding themselves from the west. It is the west who is excluding Serbia if they don't get what they want.
This is what I was trying to get across to you. You seem to think that Serbia is excluding themselves willingly and only looking to Russia. Serbia has nobody elese to look to. Nobody else cares about Serbian interests.

Peter I’m not confusing ethnicity and religion. I’m fully aware that Poles are Slavs, and Catholics. As Slavs, they share common historical cultural background with all other Slavic nations, including Russians and Serbs. We, Slavs, even after so many centuries of living far from each other and being exposed to other cultures and influences, still have many cultural similarities. Aside from the ethnicity, religion was the another important factor in the forming of identity of different Slavic nations.

I agree with you that Poland and Russia should put the past behind them and cooperate, but unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal world. Old animosities still play huge role in relations. There is also question of identity and loyallity. Which side you choose if wider conflict happens? I don’t like generalizations, but I think that Poles in general feel loyal to the Rome in the first place. Accordingly, if ever in the future, (god forbid), west moves against Russia, (to realize plans of Zbigniew Brezinski for example), I think, Poland would choose to join the West.

In many ways, relations between Russia and Poland reminds me of Serbs and Croats. If you take an honest look at as, you have to conclude that we, (Serbs and Croats), are very similar. Differences are subtitle, oftenly visible only to insiders. Our only major difference is the religion.

Serb identity is mainly based on a Slavic culture and Orthodox Christianity. So, we fill special kinship with some nations based on religion, (Greeks), ethnicity, or both as is the case with Russia.
Of course Orthodox Christianity is not exclusively Slavic, Greeks invented it, we got it from them. By the way, there are more Orthodox nations, then just ones you named.

Listen to the Serb singer Divna Ljubojevic singing ancient Byzantine chants in the old Greek:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=PEHJY0T9RsQ&feature=related
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tKexc4wSM
Short presentation of Orthodox Church world wide:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj4pUphDitA

Peggy I actually agree with you on this one; the only nation to support you are the Russians, out of at least 192 countries.Doesn't that in it self tell you something? Isn't possible that you guys are dead wrong on this? First over come your in bias and try to think clearly and logicaly.

I agree with Jovan. Serbia must not enter EU because it does not need to do so. Serbia is way too strong and powerful country to be part of that evilish group of nations. It would be better if Serbia created a union with Russia and Bielorussia because it shares with them values of culture, democratic values, love for individual freedoms, freedom of speech, memories of lost battles, and all that good stuff that follows. Cuba and North Korea might join in later. Also, 'The Band of Dead Leaders' that beutifies the streets of Belgrade with their posters, can be the Union mascott. Yes, that should do it.

PS,

why kosova and albanians should stay in Serbia as second class citiziens?

if serbia doesnt like EU it can go to russia if it wants

Peter @ co

what are you talking?
what are you saying serbia dont need EU, then EU doesnt need serbia 100 times more.
Switzerland is not in EU, but pays to EU budget a lot, for participating and benefiting from EU. Switzerland is not an island in the pacific. they have agreement with EU and they contribute they fair share by paying to EU or other thing.

Peter you and your Co, are dreaming of your side of the fence, but we are one the other side my friend.
West is not going to be insignificant, because where will you live then? in china.
I have told many times that many here dream and are IDEALISTS. nothing can be ideal.
Instead they should be more REALISTS.

why serbia should behave badly and still be allowed to benefit from agreement with all these countries EU, its neighbors, etc?
I told you why not serbia in EU with shortcuts, because they will never appreciate it, they will say EU needed us thats why, we are so good, their attitude is still what dont let them see what is wrong with them.

If Serbia doesn't want to join, or better yet the Serbian Government since the majority of people want to join....

than, let it be.


PS
Serbia in EU means no way to hide international war criminals.

clean cut: I think Serbs and Russians just like many other European countries can be very proud of their history and culture.

Also, the fact that Serbia can form good relations with both the EU, Russia, and Asia speaks volumes about the resourcefulness of her people. In fact Serbia just concluded a deal to sell $230 million dollars worth of aircraft equipment to IRAQ. That wouldn't have been possible without someone in Washington winking ok.

The bottom line is that despite the difficulties Serbs faced in the 90's, they are moving ahead. And, futhermore they can do it without kissing other people's boots.

As a Pole, I am glad my country has is part of the EU and a strong US ally (perhaps a bit too strong, but Tusk is soothing that), but also that we are trying to mend broken relations with Russia. In the future I hope we will have strong relations and good trade with both these "sides". Serbs and Albanians should want the same.
Peter
I agree with you, Polands is allied with the right country. It has and it will benefit Poland. I think Serbia can benefit more than Serbs are willing to admit. Perhaps Serbian discontent with EU and US has emotional base. As an Albanian, I give Poles a lot of praise for looking beyond cultural similarities to Russians. I mean, it takes real leaders and real patriots to align their own country with prosperity, democracy, and European values. I wish serbs leaders would do the same for their country. Serbia would benefit the most from it. It is so clear after 1999 that Serbia will never run Kosova again. It is all up to serbs what to do with the story of 1999. What is not aparent to Serb leaders is that stories are always there and it is up to the leaders which story gets adapted. Once the leaders do that the story seems as it has been peoples idea all along. I think if Serbs paid attention to the version of the story that Djindjic tried or even Tadic is trying to tell they might make a better choice. So far it looks like Serbs have chosen an ill suited democracy system (Russia) and a bilionaire dictatot (Putin). This is clearly out of frustration and inability to understand that a nation needs to align their identity with stories that will serve them well and allow for preservation of a culture. There of course is a balance.
As for Kosova, it will be independent. We still have a long way to go in gighting corruption and other cancers that even EU members have to some degree. As an independent state Kosova will use its best sons and daughters to embrace European values and democratic concept. I am sure that we will need EU and US to be present to further guide us.
Kosva is looking forward to joining EU states and enjoy benefits of the community. Lets hope Serbs do the same.

I do also think that Serbia´s future is within the EU...but it is in EU´s hands when this will happen.

so far, economically there is no need for a quick accession, there is the CEFTA-treaty, and Serbia is right in the middle of the CEFTA-region...

Serbia´s economic future is secured.

Serbia doesn't need the EU, but it certainly can benefit greatly from it (of course it is not an overnight process, but it helps greatly by speeding up the process of economic development that would take Serbia a lot longer to achieve as is now). I cannot see how it would benefit Serbia to isolate itself from the EU. This stupid idea of whether to choose good relations with either the "East" (Russia, China etc.) or "West" (America, EU etc.) is really quite primitive thinking. The Cold War is over (this goes to both Serbs and Albanians, who I am sorry, but appear to have this view that they must either choose sides against the tyrannic "East" or the soon to be economically insignificant "West". Grow up people, it is better to have good relations with everyone, isn't it? Or is it some Balkan thing?)!

As a Pole, I am glad my country has is part of the EU and a strong US ally (perhaps a bit too strong, but Tusk is soothing that), but also that we are trying to mend broken relations with Russia. In the future I hope we will have strong relations and good trade with both these "sides". Serbs and Albanians should want the same.

Good joke Clean Cut. I almost believed you were serious at the beginning.

Serbia doesn't need to join the EU. Ity should follow the Swiss model. Switzerland is not a member and greatly benefits from the EU.

The EU will never be complete without Serbia, being the citadel of the Balkans. So amuse us EU by all means what do you have to offer the Citizens of Serbia?

10-12 Billion Euros a year? We expect to be paid to join.

What a bluff. It is not Danube that flows through Serbia, it is Rhein-Mein -Danube-Black Sea waterway, EU's jugular.
Not to mention E5 route and railway routes.

From strategic economic standpoint, a free zone outside of EU, smack dab in the middle of EU territory makes a lot of sense. Serbia could easily become a trade hub between EU and the rest of emerging world.

Once in EU, Serbia has no signifficance.

Peter, I agree with you that
Serbia should have good relations with EU and the US julst like with Russia.
How do you think this is possible when the UE and US have virtually declared war on Serbia?

If someone you want to be friends with, blackmails you into giving your property away for the sake of friendship would you want that friendship then?

You sound like Serbs don't want to be friendly to EU and US. They do but are not given a chance to become equal members. Either you dismember your country and give some to our pals or you are going to be seen as the difficult one.

Now Peter, be fair. Would you accept those terms. Wouldn't you then turn your attention to people who are prepared to take your interests seriously and help you defend them? We all know what the ideal is but good relations should come without extreme demands.

Serbia should demand that it is treated as an equal sovereign state from other member states of the EU. Joining the EU as second class citizens, exploited and discriminated against for the benefit of some member states 'special relationship' with the US and Kosovo Albanian's aspirations is not acceptable.

Why can't the Kosovo Albanians on this site understand that they can have independence but that does NOT include ownership of Kosovo which already belongs to Serbia. If they don't like living in Serbia they can vote with their feet and leave!

“…I give Poles a lot of praise for looking beyond cultural similarities to Russians…” (and allying with a west)
Kastrioti, Poland and Russia where rivaling powers for centuries, they fought against each other many times. Also, Poland identifies itself much more through Catholicism then Slavic culture. So, it wasn’t difficult for Poland to choose. Serb-Russian relations were very different

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucgg/20071224/cm_ucgg/kosovosnewyearsresolutionindependence

Please read!

Serbia belongs with those who respect her. And at present that is Russia. Russia has always been our ally throughout history and I think that we should turn to them and not the EU whose main powers Germany and England had effectively trained the KLA in the pursuit of their puppet state of Kosovo. Also we are not being offered the status of an equal soveren member state but a downgraded version designed to get us to sell everything to the EU for nothing at all. We should unite with Russia and I think that if people were given the choice the choice would be clearly Russia.

To all the poster here that keep trying convince Serbia how glorious it would be for her to pay the toll (15% of her territory) of entry in this wonderful club that has done a masterful job of crisis management in the former Yugoslavia, I only have to say one word....ENERGY. All economies are based on cheap exploitation of energy supplies. The higher the energy cost the lower the economic growth. Europe cannot and would not supply Serbia with cheap energy, however Russia will. Not only will Russia supply Serbia with energy, she is going to make Serbia a transshipment hub for oil and gas to Europe. Europe wants to steel the coal of Kosovo. Why would Serbia pay such a high entry fee? European business will come to Serbia of their own account, not because they like Serbia, but because they have to if they want to accomplish anything in the Balkans. Just think Serbia that has suffered 17 yrs of economic sanctions, isolation and war, has an economy arguably on par with Romania and Bulgaria (both EU members). Serbia you have an educated work force, developed institutions and infrastructure and soon to come reliable source of inexpensive energy. Europe needs you more than you need Europe.

It's pretty cleat that EU is applying the stick and carrot
principle to Serbia in its
quest to membership.The Serbs
shouldnt accept the errosion
of their land for the promise
of some future membership.

doni

I don't think you read my post properly, you read the first sentence and thought that was the point. Here it is again for you to see:

"Serbia doesn't need the EU, but it certainly can benefit greatly from it (of course it is not an overnight process, but it helps greatly by speeding up the process of economic development that would take Serbia a lot longer to achieve as is now). I cannot see how it would benefit Serbia to isolate itself from the EU."

Serbia has existed for a long time since before the EU, so that's why it doesn't need it, but I did say it can greatly benefit form it and that isolating itself from it would be stupid.

"West is not going to be insignificant, because where will you live then? in china. "

Again, you misunderstand my point. I am quoting the Serb camp who say soon the West will decline economically, I quoted the Albanian camp when they say China, Russia etc. are tyrannic. I was being sarcastic.

About the idealism and realism thing, you are quoting my idea here. I was the one saying how the views are interpreted by both.

KASTRIOTI

I agree with you, but I would also like Poland and the rest of the EU, Serbia and Kosovo to have good relations with Russia as well. I have always dreamed of a united Europe living alongside Russia peacefully.

peggy

I agree with you here as well, but how on earth could it possibly benefit Serbia to isolate itself form the West and rely on Russia, China and other like-minded states? Look at Cuba, North Korea and others who have, it is not a good prospect. Serbia needs everyone (both East and West) if it wants to develop to standards in Europe, unless it sees China and Russia as beacons of development, which they are not (they are developing greatly now, but it will still take a long time).

Stevan

Don't confuse ethnicity and religion. Both Russians and Poles are Slavs, we differ when it comes to religion (not culture so much, our cultures don't differ so much). They are Orthodox (which is not exclusively Slavic, as you have Orthodox Romanians, Armenians, Georgians and Greeks), we are Catholics, that is the main difference. Historically, yes, we fought a lot, we were the two largest and strongest Slavic empires always trying to exert influence on each other by Polonizing or Russifying each others populations when they came under each others control.

Either way, it is in the past. Russia and Poland should have good relations and not live in the past.

Peter we both agree that Serbia should have good realitions with the west and Russia.
My point is that the west will NOT allow Serbia to coexist peacefully with them unless Serbia does what it's told. So here is my question to you.
What do you think Serbia should do? Should Serbia give up Kosovo in exchange for friendship with US and EU?
This is the bottom line.

It is not Serbia who are excluding themselves from the west. It is the west who is excluding Serbia if they don't get what they want.
This is what I was trying to get across to you. You seem to think that Serbia is excluding themselves willingly and only looking to Russia. Serbia has nobody elese to look to. Nobody else cares about Serbian interests.

Peter I’m not confusing ethnicity and religion. I’m fully aware that Poles are Slavs, and Catholics. As Slavs, they share common historical cultural background with all other Slavic nations, including Russians and Serbs. We, Slavs, even after so many centuries of living far from each other and being exposed to other cultures and influences, still have many cultural similarities. Aside from the ethnicity, religion was the another important factor in the forming of identity of different Slavic nations.

I agree with you that Poland and Russia should put the past behind them and cooperate, but unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal world. Old animosities still play huge role in relations. There is also question of identity and loyallity. Which side you choose if wider conflict happens? I don’t like generalizations, but I think that Poles in general feel loyal to the Rome in the first place. Accordingly, if ever in the future, (god forbid), west moves against Russia, (to realize plans of Zbigniew Brezinski for example), I think, Poland would choose to join the West.

In many ways, relations between Russia and Poland reminds me of Serbs and Croats. If you take an honest look at as, you have to conclude that we, (Serbs and Croats), are very similar. Differences are subtitle, oftenly visible only to insiders. Our only major difference is the religion.

Serb identity is mainly based on a Slavic culture and Orthodox Christianity. So, we fill special kinship with some nations based on religion, (Greeks), ethnicity, or both as is the case with Russia.
Of course Orthodox Christianity is not exclusively Slavic, Greeks invented it, we got it from them. By the way, there are more Orthodox nations, then just ones you named.

Listen to the Serb singer Divna Ljubojevic singing ancient Byzantine chants in the old Greek:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=PEHJY0T9RsQ&feature=related
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tKexc4wSM
Short presentation of Orthodox Church world wide:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj4pUphDitA

Peggy I actually agree with you on this one; the only nation to support you are the Russians, out of at least 192 countries.Doesn't that in it self tell you something? Isn't possible that you guys are dead wrong on this? First over come your in bias and try to think clearly and logicaly.