DSS could “turn back on EU”

Afrim,
when a country has all EU members practically begging for her to join their financial union, and also this country has the worlds No1 military Superpower (Russia), and the worlds No1 economic Superpower (China) supporting her cause....
hmm.... it does not seem too isolated at least to my eyes!!!!

Now look at albania/albanians and try to make a parallel case...

It is the EU who loses more than the Serbs if Serbia does not join their smug little club. The EU cannot afford to lose Serbia to the Russians because of Serbia's strategic geographical location on the world map.

This ridicules desire to please America is now in danger of costing the EU more than it bargained for and it seems that Germany is the first one to realize this but the UK and France still do not.

Afrim,

there are other countries in Europe who are not part of the EU - do you believe they too are following "isolation like during Milosevic's time" ?

There are even parties in many EU states that sanction stepping off the EU federalist agenda - in the UK we have UKIP (UK independence Party) who gained nearly a fifth of votes in the European elections in 2007.

What exactly is Serbia going to get by entering EU? I like the idea of traveling without visas, but not at every cost. Some countries like UK, France, Germany clearly benefited from their EU membership since they can exert their influence on others, but what exactly is Serbia going to get. To begin with it will have to accept that NATO had the right to bomb it, that it will never have any say in anything (including the times when the law is on its side). If you think that EU wants Serbia in it because they want to give Serbia something, you should think more about it.

No Afrim, it seems the Albanians of Kosovo are headed for near isolation with only the support of the UK, France and USA, however the rest of the World will turn their back on you like they should. Today in Canada I saw on the news on TV that the Canadian Government will not recognize Kosovo. We know that Germany will give up on Kosovo Independence soon and when it does so well Italy and rest of the EU except for the UK and France.

EU offers deal to accelerate EU Membership to Serbia? In return for what? Kosovo? Obviously none of these “key” European Players offering this “deal” haven’t bothered reading up on recent Serbian history. This deal reminds me of ultimatum given to Serbia in 1914 by Austro-Hungarian Empire. What other member of European Union was asked to give up 15% of its territory in return for membership? As far as I am concerned give this membership to someone else. I know Turkey wants it!

It looks like Serbia will be heading for another isolation just like during Milosevic's time. Milosevic destroyed Serbia once, and now i think its time that Kostunica and his alikes destroy and isolate Serbia once again.

There's no need for concern over this. The EU is just pushing Serbia to see what they can do to "sway" the status of KosovO.

Also, with the establishment of the South Stream pipeline, who will end up needing whom?

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2007/12/12/feature-01

Pyrros,

Whatever your opinion on Kosovo etc, you can't claim Russia to be the No1 military superpower is ridiculous. Its military spending doesn't even match Italy, and barely matches Poland. In a conventional sense it is outclassed by a host of nations. It merely relies on its nukes and the glory of the past. Its military hardware is outdated and outclassed, and with its collapsing population it will not even have much manpower soon. China will be an economic superpower, but it is not yet, and its economy is still very reliant on exporting to the big economies of the EU and US to shake the boat too much. The economic world superpowers are the EU and US, and the only military superpower is the US. I'm not suggesting what is happenning in Kosovo is correct, but to continually hanker after your alliance with two mid class powers, who have major problems of there own and like all other powers will drop you if it is in their interests, is naive. I also don't see why you would idolise countries where vast proportions of the population live in poverty, and they all lack freedom of speech.

Serbia cannot join EU if EU does not respect the territorial integrity of Serbia. How can Serbia join a club that is trying to rip Serbia apart?

It is maybe better for Serbia to do business with countries that do respect them and their soverignty. Russia is getting stronger every day and China has huge economical potential. Two strong strategic partners that are maybe better for Serbia than EU if it must choose.

Norway and Switzerland for example are not part of EU and they live pretty good I would say. EU is no garantuee for good living as some people wish to portray. What is more important is the potential of the country regarding economy, education etc and the way everything is planned for the future.

I love how our peoples Liberals keep regarding the EU as the only option.. or face isolation

10 years ago-that would be a correct statment

but maybe Mr. Nikolic has not heard of Mr. Putin.. and what his country has done in the past few years.

Russo-Serbian integration

Olf,
You put too much faith on your alien superheroes.

To put it more plainly,
letting Russians aside for the obvious reasons,
would you think an american would cooperate better with an albanian rather than a serb?

Well, serbs are closer to both Russians/Germans/British both
culturally/genetically.

So, isolated nations like the albanians should try and built
a civilazation instead of trying to ruin others.

@ brucy

is the usa superpower like 99 against serbia, or now against iraq and afhanistan?

that´s maybe the main difference, when russia is collapsing it even get´s huger (former georgia and other areas) and DOES win wars!

and russias weapons - the best in the world - are that outdated, that we now see usa and eu shaking because of the suspending of KSE.

not to mention the possibility that russia can turn out the lights to eu and make em whenever they want a little kosovo or 3. world area!

please spend your wisdom somewhere else!

Bruce, Pyrros' point does not rely on whether Russia and China are literally no.1. You know that.
The fact is that Europe, Russia, China, India, Canada, Turkey, Indonesia etc. all have an intersest in what Serbia decides.

The neatest solution for Europe is that Serbia agrees to the Albanians ripping off its territory. Only the US, and to a large extent the UK and France don't care what Sebia decides. That's three countries, two of which are going along for the ride. Every other country would rather see some form of negotiated solution.

Pyrros is right in that it's irrational to antagonise militarily and economically powerful countries for the sake of 'inat' on the part of some people in the Washington establishment.

Afrim,
Perhaps we'll let the investors decide on WHO will be a Pariah state..

These are far from Milosevic times, so perhaps you need to get a reality check, and step back to take a deep breath...

There's a lot going on in the world, and Kosovo is at the bottom of the pile of concerns..

Wow, cool! I hope they'll do it! Having a Russian-Chinese market in our vicinity will be a good thing for us.

Pyrros,
I don't think those countries can be called No1 just yet, but they are catching up pretty fast. I'm wondering if the current No1's will consider moving away from 'capitalism' when they see their 'socialist' neighbors overtaking them. It's hard for me to differentiate between those systems/countries, however, because the more I try the more they seem the same: those with power rule, and do everything in their power to stay in power. It's nice when they use their power to help the people once in a while.

Princip, UKIP are just a rascist xenophobic party and would take England back into the Victorian Ages if elected.
Serbia should give Kosovo it's independence and take all the economic benefits that EU membership would provide.

Bruce,

You are pretty well informed about Russia. It was also interesting to read "Russia by the numbers" in today's Wall Street Journal giving a real picture. It appears to me that in Greece Pyrros either can not access the reliable sources of information.

make us a favor serbia, go under russian orbit, be a satelite of mosscow and a puppet of vladimir

Peter,
i dont know :
a) How you talk about 2 countries - Serbia & Kosovo when according to googlemaps, yahoomaps and every printed map it is part of Serbia
b) How you refer to Serbia as "insignificant"?
Well it was and still is and will be significant enuf to survive from its brutal enemies and why not destroy whole empires (Turkish/Austrohungarian).

In other words, a small dose of reading actual history never hurt anybody.

Correction, European elections were in 2004!

What Afrim also wanted to say is that Serbian politicians will split and betray the population as usual, remember Krajina and Bosnia.
Pyrros, moon is not made out of cheese also there is no milky way.

Princip

are you suggesting that it would be better if for Serbia if they did not join the EU. If so please could you explain this to majority of Serbs in Serbia.

The EU is going to fall apart soon enough. If you have ever heard the complaints coming from the Brits you would get the impression that they have lost all control of their own country.

"there are other countries in Europe who are not part of the EU - do you believe they too are following "isolation like during Milosevic's time""

It looks like for some of you Kosova is more important than Serbia. Why? Because you already live in EU not Serbia!!
Anyway it looks like Serbia's rejection on joining EU is something that we all agree about.

"russia can turn out the lights to eu"

Technically possible, but actually financially unviable. The EU pays markets rates for fuel, which allows the Russians to sell it cheap to their citizens. If they stopped getting EU cash they's have to instigate massive price hikes which the people could not afford.

Well it's debatable if Russia managed any better in Chechnya than the USA in Iraq. Mainly because the Russians kill anyone who does independent reporting. That and the fact that they litterally levelled chechnya, and used widespread rape, torture etc. The usa for all it's faults has not acted nearly as barbaricall in Iraq as Russia did in Chechnya.

The major European powers are not stupid. They want Serbia to acquiesce to cover up their crime. If they want to use their power to illegally rip Serbia apart, let the whole world see it.

Serbia cannot be bribed with some trinkets.

Quote: "Norway and Switzerland for example are not part of EU and they live pretty good I would say".
---

It seems like a lot of people are using the above quote. Norway and Switzerland have bilateral agreement with EU. They have free-borders and free trade.

If Serbis chooses to look west, EU will not treat you like it treats Switzerland and Norway.

Again, this talking of which country is stronger or richer than the other.

Either way, what difference does it make if you have good relations with Russia, America, China, Britain, or whatever? What difference will that make on Serbia or Kosovo? Both are small, poor countries and they need to sort out their own problems! Nobody is going to do anything for you except yourselves! At the end of the day, one must have good relations with everybody, not this primitive Cold War attitude of allying with either East of West.

Russia and the USA do not care about any of you, they care about their own interests. The EU would be the best economically for both Serbia and Kosovo to a certain degree, but otherwise, it would be good to stop splitting the world ideologically like you guys seem to like to do, as rather insignificant countries when you look at it, no offense to anyone.

Pyrros

a) When they declare independence, the US and some EU states will recognize it, essentially we can say it is a separate state due to the UN administration of the province as well, even though technically it is still recognized as Serbia.

b) I know Serbia has a proud history. I was talking as an economic and military power.

It looks like Serbia will be heading for another isolation just like during Milosevic's time. Milosevic destroyed Serbia once, and now i think its time that Kostunica and his alikes destroy and isolate Serbia once again.

Pyrros,

Whatever your opinion on Kosovo etc, you can't claim Russia to be the No1 military superpower is ridiculous. Its military spending doesn't even match Italy, and barely matches Poland. In a conventional sense it is outclassed by a host of nations. It merely relies on its nukes and the glory of the past. Its military hardware is outdated and outclassed, and with its collapsing population it will not even have much manpower soon. China will be an economic superpower, but it is not yet, and its economy is still very reliant on exporting to the big economies of the EU and US to shake the boat too much. The economic world superpowers are the EU and US, and the only military superpower is the US. I'm not suggesting what is happenning in Kosovo is correct, but to continually hanker after your alliance with two mid class powers, who have major problems of there own and like all other powers will drop you if it is in their interests, is naive. I also don't see why you would idolise countries where vast proportions of the population live in poverty, and they all lack freedom of speech.

"there are other countries in Europe who are not part of the EU - do you believe they too are following "isolation like during Milosevic's time""

It looks like for some of you Kosova is more important than Serbia. Why? Because you already live in EU not Serbia!!
Anyway it looks like Serbia's rejection on joining EU is something that we all agree about.

Afrim,
when a country has all EU members practically begging for her to join their financial union, and also this country has the worlds No1 military Superpower (Russia), and the worlds No1 economic Superpower (China) supporting her cause....
hmm.... it does not seem too isolated at least to my eyes!!!!

Now look at albania/albanians and try to make a parallel case...

Princip, UKIP are just a rascist xenophobic party and would take England back into the Victorian Ages if elected.
Serbia should give Kosovo it's independence and take all the economic benefits that EU membership would provide.

What Afrim also wanted to say is that Serbian politicians will split and betray the population as usual, remember Krajina and Bosnia.
Pyrros, moon is not made out of cheese also there is no milky way.

Princip

are you suggesting that it would be better if for Serbia if they did not join the EU. If so please could you explain this to majority of Serbs in Serbia.

make us a favor serbia, go under russian orbit, be a satelite of mosscow and a puppet of vladimir

Bruce,

You are pretty well informed about Russia. It was also interesting to read "Russia by the numbers" in today's Wall Street Journal giving a real picture. It appears to me that in Greece Pyrros either can not access the reliable sources of information.

@ brucy

is the usa superpower like 99 against serbia, or now against iraq and afhanistan?

that´s maybe the main difference, when russia is collapsing it even get´s huger (former georgia and other areas) and DOES win wars!

and russias weapons - the best in the world - are that outdated, that we now see usa and eu shaking because of the suspending of KSE.

not to mention the possibility that russia can turn out the lights to eu and make em whenever they want a little kosovo or 3. world area!

please spend your wisdom somewhere else!

Afrim,

there are other countries in Europe who are not part of the EU - do you believe they too are following "isolation like during Milosevic's time" ?

There are even parties in many EU states that sanction stepping off the EU federalist agenda - in the UK we have UKIP (UK independence Party) who gained nearly a fifth of votes in the European elections in 2007.

I love how our peoples Liberals keep regarding the EU as the only option.. or face isolation

10 years ago-that would be a correct statment

but maybe Mr. Nikolic has not heard of Mr. Putin.. and what his country has done in the past few years.

Russo-Serbian integration

Afrim,
Perhaps we'll let the investors decide on WHO will be a Pariah state..

These are far from Milosevic times, so perhaps you need to get a reality check, and step back to take a deep breath...

There's a lot going on in the world, and Kosovo is at the bottom of the pile of concerns..

Wow, cool! I hope they'll do it! Having a Russian-Chinese market in our vicinity will be a good thing for us.

Correction, European elections were in 2004!

No Afrim, it seems the Albanians of Kosovo are headed for near isolation with only the support of the UK, France and USA, however the rest of the World will turn their back on you like they should. Today in Canada I saw on the news on TV that the Canadian Government will not recognize Kosovo. We know that Germany will give up on Kosovo Independence soon and when it does so well Italy and rest of the EU except for the UK and France.

There's no need for concern over this. The EU is just pushing Serbia to see what they can do to "sway" the status of KosovO.

Also, with the establishment of the South Stream pipeline, who will end up needing whom?

http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2007/12/12/feature-01

It is the EU who loses more than the Serbs if Serbia does not join their smug little club. The EU cannot afford to lose Serbia to the Russians because of Serbia's strategic geographical location on the world map.

This ridicules desire to please America is now in danger of costing the EU more than it bargained for and it seems that Germany is the first one to realize this but the UK and France still do not.

Serbia cannot join EU if EU does not respect the territorial integrity of Serbia. How can Serbia join a club that is trying to rip Serbia apart?

It is maybe better for Serbia to do business with countries that do respect them and their soverignty. Russia is getting stronger every day and China has huge economical potential. Two strong strategic partners that are maybe better for Serbia than EU if it must choose.

Norway and Switzerland for example are not part of EU and they live pretty good I would say. EU is no garantuee for good living as some people wish to portray. What is more important is the potential of the country regarding economy, education etc and the way everything is planned for the future.

Bruce, Pyrros' point does not rely on whether Russia and China are literally no.1. You know that.
The fact is that Europe, Russia, China, India, Canada, Turkey, Indonesia etc. all have an intersest in what Serbia decides.

The neatest solution for Europe is that Serbia agrees to the Albanians ripping off its territory. Only the US, and to a large extent the UK and France don't care what Sebia decides. That's three countries, two of which are going along for the ride. Every other country would rather see some form of negotiated solution.

Pyrros is right in that it's irrational to antagonise militarily and economically powerful countries for the sake of 'inat' on the part of some people in the Washington establishment.

EU offers deal to accelerate EU Membership to Serbia? In return for what? Kosovo? Obviously none of these “key” European Players offering this “deal” haven’t bothered reading up on recent Serbian history. This deal reminds me of ultimatum given to Serbia in 1914 by Austro-Hungarian Empire. What other member of European Union was asked to give up 15% of its territory in return for membership? As far as I am concerned give this membership to someone else. I know Turkey wants it!

What exactly is Serbia going to get by entering EU? I like the idea of traveling without visas, but not at every cost. Some countries like UK, France, Germany clearly benefited from their EU membership since they can exert their influence on others, but what exactly is Serbia going to get. To begin with it will have to accept that NATO had the right to bomb it, that it will never have any say in anything (including the times when the law is on its side). If you think that EU wants Serbia in it because they want to give Serbia something, you should think more about it.

Olf,
You put too much faith on your alien superheroes.

To put it more plainly,
letting Russians aside for the obvious reasons,
would you think an american would cooperate better with an albanian rather than a serb?

Well, serbs are closer to both Russians/Germans/British both
culturally/genetically.

So, isolated nations like the albanians should try and built
a civilazation instead of trying to ruin others.

"russia can turn out the lights to eu"

Technically possible, but actually financially unviable. The EU pays markets rates for fuel, which allows the Russians to sell it cheap to their citizens. If they stopped getting EU cash they's have to instigate massive price hikes which the people could not afford.

Well it's debatable if Russia managed any better in Chechnya than the USA in Iraq. Mainly because the Russians kill anyone who does independent reporting. That and the fact that they litterally levelled chechnya, and used widespread rape, torture etc. The usa for all it's faults has not acted nearly as barbaricall in Iraq as Russia did in Chechnya.

Pyrros

a) When they declare independence, the US and some EU states will recognize it, essentially we can say it is a separate state due to the UN administration of the province as well, even though technically it is still recognized as Serbia.

b) I know Serbia has a proud history. I was talking as an economic and military power.

Pyrros,
I don't think those countries can be called No1 just yet, but they are catching up pretty fast. I'm wondering if the current No1's will consider moving away from 'capitalism' when they see their 'socialist' neighbors overtaking them. It's hard for me to differentiate between those systems/countries, however, because the more I try the more they seem the same: those with power rule, and do everything in their power to stay in power. It's nice when they use their power to help the people once in a while.

The EU is going to fall apart soon enough. If you have ever heard the complaints coming from the Brits you would get the impression that they have lost all control of their own country.

Quote: "Norway and Switzerland for example are not part of EU and they live pretty good I would say".
---

It seems like a lot of people are using the above quote. Norway and Switzerland have bilateral agreement with EU. They have free-borders and free trade.

If Serbis chooses to look west, EU will not treat you like it treats Switzerland and Norway.

The major European powers are not stupid. They want Serbia to acquiesce to cover up their crime. If they want to use their power to illegally rip Serbia apart, let the whole world see it.

Serbia cannot be bribed with some trinkets.

Again, this talking of which country is stronger or richer than the other.

Either way, what difference does it make if you have good relations with Russia, America, China, Britain, or whatever? What difference will that make on Serbia or Kosovo? Both are small, poor countries and they need to sort out their own problems! Nobody is going to do anything for you except yourselves! At the end of the day, one must have good relations with everybody, not this primitive Cold War attitude of allying with either East of West.

Russia and the USA do not care about any of you, they care about their own interests. The EU would be the best economically for both Serbia and Kosovo to a certain degree, but otherwise, it would be good to stop splitting the world ideologically like you guys seem to like to do, as rather insignificant countries when you look at it, no offense to anyone.

Peter,
i dont know :
a) How you talk about 2 countries - Serbia & Kosovo when according to googlemaps, yahoomaps and every printed map it is part of Serbia
b) How you refer to Serbia as "insignificant"?
Well it was and still is and will be significant enuf to survive from its brutal enemies and why not destroy whole empires (Turkish/Austrohungarian).

In other words, a small dose of reading actual history never hurt anybody.