"Kosovo cannot be independent"

Kostunica is absolutely correct, and I applaud him for speaking the truth. Notice the hostility of the 'greater albania' team on here. They hate to hear the truth, and anyone who speaks the truth they accuse of being 'another Milosevic'. This is their strategy, probasbly told to them by Ruder Finn.
I remember a former landlord of mine telling me about new albanian tennants who claimed they were from Kosovo and were expelled by the Serbs. The landlord, who had been to Kosovo before, started asking them questions about certain places and names there, and it became evident to him that these people were not from Kosovo at all, but from Albania! They told some gullible UN schmuck that the Serbs had cleansed them, raped them, beat them.....just to claim refugee status and get on a plane to Canada. This kind of garbage is rampant and the truth needs to be told about what is really going on. I am glad that Kostunica has the fortitude and the guts to speak the truth. Serbia could not have a better prime minister.

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia, while at the same time nothing was done to bring back the exiled Serbs," Koštunica said.


That is very much truth. Those Albanians are moving smoothly everywhere, even in Serbia. I just wonder how many of them came to Kosovo and settled overthere. In few years they will form new families, and in few years again new families and so on. Somebody must do something on this. The indetity should be checked and everyone who is illegaly in Kosovo should be sent back to Albania. This investigation would last long but it would be useful.

In the flat that I used to live while in Pristina now live some family that came from Albania taht had no any links with Kosovo previously.

I couldn't agree more Vojo. More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible? Well Vojo just explained it all... nato project from the start, I mean I should say american project.

Ben, what are you talking about? This is a perfectly legal and democratic statement Mr.Kostunica is making. This is why the EU is so hung up. Serbia has every legal term on it's side and now Nato and co. wan't to clean up their mess but they know they can't. I applaud Mr.Kostunica as he is stating a very valid and very precise case. No unillateral moves, no declarations! Only negotiations through legal institutions!

P.S. At least Kostunica wasn't a former Geurilla militia man. and has some credible education in law!

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia, while at the same time nothing was done to bring back the exiled Serbs," Koštunica said.


Wow!!!
I guess things in serbia will never change,allways the same chorus,Albanians migrated in Kosovo from Caucasus,then from turkey,during Titos regime from Albania,and now even after 1999 war,again from albania and also Fyrom.The "funny" thing is that in Fyrom,they use the same arguments,but they claim a totaly different thing,saying that many albanians never left and this took to an increase of the albanian community there.
Well mr Kostunica i suppose that these kind of lies are tolerable during electoral campaigns,and by the way lets hope your faction is going to win,we(albanians)need politicians of your genre on the head of the serbian state,especially now that Kosova is going to be independent and will not have to deal with you directly.
Milosevic and his politics "delivered" to Albanians their independence,and now im quite sure that Kostunica soon or later will "give" us the UN seat.

He continues with baseless lies about non-Serbs comming to Serbia from EVERYWHERE, even US, Africa, China, Argentina, etc who come to Kosova to take Serbian land and sell it to other Argentinians and Eskimos and so on...

The day that we will not have to deal with people like this guy is weeks away.

Kosovo is not ready to secede from Serbia. History has proven that you really cannot have a democracy unless certain conditions are met.

For example, countries with a democratic tradition always had some history of self determination. Kosovo with the exception of the greater Albania alliance with Nazi Germany has always been attached to no other state than a Serbian one.

Also, the country must have some economic and industrial viability. As things stand now Kosovo is dependant on international welfare and the black market. In short, it's economy is of questional viability.

Lastly, you cannot have the type of animosity between ethnicities that exists between Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Otherwise one side will always hold the other captive. I won't evan talk about the repect for law and order issue in Kosovo or the dangerous precedent a unilateral secession would cause within the world order.

As of now the above conditions do not exist, and still need to be developed regionally. Premature independence will only hurt the long term development of those areas in Kosovo and the region.

It is estimated that over
800 000 mainly Kosovar Albanians were sent to Turkey in an egreement (still in force) between ex Jugoslavia (Serbia) and Turkey.
Repression and later war made many more albanians to leave Kosovo, but seems also to have lead to Kosovo breaking away.

Yet after Serbs and Croats albanians are the 3rd largest ethnic group living in ex-jugo federation.

Albanians have been removed from ex-Jugo federatin, and not the other way around, but still anough to populate Kosovo to 95%. Like it or not Mr Kostunica, and they understandebly do not want you to be their PM.

It is true that more serbs lived in Ks in the past, and studies show that most of them left during 1970-19998 because of economical reasons, and than it was the war, not the unresolved statust issue. No one can blame enyone for leaving if they could have a better life in Serbia.

Kosovar Serbs will be guarantied by Ksovar gov (serbs included) EU, and IC safety, security and rights as any minority anywere in a democratic country and more (Ahtisaari Plan).

Let's be honest, you do not wish to be their PM either, all your efforts are to score political points agaions your other serbian political oponents.

Well done B92. For having Kosovos and serbias PM's on the same page:

Kostunica "Kosovo cannot be independent"

Thaqi " Kosovos Indipendence a matter of weeks"

We shall see, the time will tell, 2008 is coming.

Pure Serbian "inat" and arrogance...

How does this guy expect Kosovars to consider him a "premier" and live in the same country with him when he lies through his teeth by insulting and saying that "… we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia..."

I am so glad that we no longer have anything to do with him, his country or anyone around him. He is worse than Milosevic.

Ratko, how do you know enough to make that assertion? Were you there counting the people leaving and coming in? Were you also part of the serb guards destroying identity documents in front of cameras?

If any of the superpowers do not like or agree with what Kostunica says, they shouldn't have backed the US in PUSHING him into office in the 90s.

Thank you for giving us this mouth for our rights to our KosovO - US, UN & EU!!

I couldn't agree more Vojo. More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible? Well Vojo just explained it all... nato project from the start, I mean I should say american project.
(Ratko, 16 December 2007 14:38)

Ratko, asking why there are more K-Albanians now then prewar and then stating that because of A-Albanians coming to Kosova, confirms what we Albanians, EU and USA have been saying all along.

Your Vojo is just doing what Milosevic started and he speaks what Milosevic would today or had in mind. Your Vojo is just an executor of a well organized and well planned will of Milosevic and Orthodox Church.

The fact is that when Milosevic expelled almost a milion Albanians from Kosova, he destroyed their ID cards as well. By doing that it was just a matter of time before Serbian Government would use this as some form of defense line. Today Vojo said and so did you.

But no worries, EU knows what was stood behind this scenario, destroying K-Albanians ID, so you Serbs would claim they are not K-Albanians.
I am sure that you would even dare to ask us to prove that we are K-Albanian by producing an ID, knowing very well that we can't, because you destroyed our IDs for very same purpose. But, nonetheless, I can prove that I was born and bred in Kosova by millions of other means.

Funny how when refugees returned to Kosova, they all knew where their homes were.
For someone who never lived there, to an unknown territory, this would've been very confusing.

Where is a common sense when one makes such claim?

Just think about it for a second, Albania was poorer than Yugoslavia and yet when Albanian's borders were open, they all went to other EU countries but not in Yugoslavia. Most of them headed towards Italy, Greece, USA etc but not Yugoslavia and even less towards Kosova, which was much poorer than any part of Yugoslavia.

Now, lets talk about Kosova post war.
Albania was much richer than Kosova post war. Kosova's economy was destroyed, homes, infrastructure, fields mined, killings still going on by either side etc.

Having all this in mind, why would someone, from Albania, with little common sense, go to a country which offers no jobs, no homes, no security? By this time(90-99), almost 9 years, A-Albanians were all over EU and USA, hence their family's standard living in Albania were much better than K-Albanians in post war Kosova. Therefore, to anyone with common sense, this idea of Serbian's Gov make no sense. To say that Albanians from Albania, Macedonia etc, came to live in Kosova's post war just not true.

But,having said that, if you ask how comes there are more K-Albanians, post war Kosova, then there were say at begining of 90's or prior to 90's then the answer is simple. When Serbia occupied Kosova in 89, expelled K-Albanians from their jobs, removed their basic rights, Albanians had no choice but to leave Kosova. These Albanians, mainly young, including me, went to other EU's countries to work in order to feed their families back in Kosova which, as I said, they were jobless and with no other income.

These young K-Albanians, as any human beings, didn't stay young for ever but of course got older, got married, created their own families, kids etc. During their time in EU, some didn't have their permanent status to stay in the country they lived and work. After the liberation of Kosova, many EU countries, mainly Germany, since majority of K-ALbanians concentrated there, were deported because according to the Immigration rules, there were no fears of persecution from Serbian Army after 99.

So yes, there were more K-Albanians(who were born & bred in Kosova) post war than they were 98/99 because these returnees were K-Albanians who left Kosova during the years 89-96 and not because they came from Albania.
Another fact is worth mentioning, these young K-Albanians who left Kosova were mainly singles and when they returned/deported from EU, they came with their family of 3-5(wife & kids).I hope this answers your question Ratko, "how is this possible?"

Another fact, there are more Chinese people living and working in Kosova than they are Albanians from Albania & Macedonia. Since the liberation of Kosova I went to Kosova many times, I actually stayed there for 2 years 02-04, and I can honestly say that I did not met a single Albanian from Albania living in Prishtina, the capital city. If they came for a better life and jobs then Prishtina, as a capital city, they would head to. I know Prishtina very well and every corner of it but there were no Albanians from Albania.

Those that I met or heard of, only few, were working as truck drivers importing goods from Albania & Macedonia. I don't know if you can count one as a citizen if he is there only for few hours or days. If you count them as such then other countries should check the numbers of their population as well. Imagine, London, is visited by millions in any single day, either as tourist or on business trip.

And they say Kostunica is different from Milosevic, well I don't see any difference, neither does EU & USA, can you? If you do, then please enlighten us.

Kostunica: "We thus arrive to a conclusion that after the bombing, the next thing was to create an unusual entity, a NATO state in the territory of Kosovo, with a capital in a U.S. army base, known as Bondstill,"

and they are offering an EU memebrship to this country :) he sounds as Milosevic :)
Serbia is not ready to join the democratic world yet... unfortunately... but we can turn page and go on with our life

Dont warry we will do the same when we declare independence, we will null and void your constitutuion first, then null all the rest and proclaim serbia an illegal entity, with no status,
which will need to be negotiated, because we would like serbia to have only automomy under kosova.
I am sure you will accept as soon as we offer it, you will not have any other better offer.

Ok, I'm Kosovo Albanian, and I was born and lived for 24 years in Prishtina. We used to have a great country under Tito regime, as matter fact we will never live anymore as under YU. But then seems that Serbs wanted all for themselves and destroyed the thing.
As for Albanians coming from Albania it holds a bit true, but not very large numbers as you might think, as matter of fact very few (they are more interested to immigrate to western Europe and not Kosovo). As matter of fact I don’t like them either, and I don’t want them in Kosovo at all (speaking of Albanians from Albania). They way they took advantage of Kosovo war is just un-acceptable, we were dying in Kosovo and they were using Kosovo as pretext to immigrate, and did contribute so little or nothing, and I have no respect for these people at all, all they care is immigrate from their own creation, and they don’t care about their country and they don’t work about their country, for these kind of people I really have no respect at all I repeat myself. But we Kosovans are different, we care about our country and we fought for, our Diaspora worked so much and spent so much money, money which is not easy in those Western countries.
I would ask now Kostunica why on first place KS albs left Kosovo? And I’m sure that an honest answer would satisfy the claim for Independence, Serbia should look forward, and get into EU, and not fight for something that has no control over for 9 years now.

Serbia is not ready to join the democratic world.

Democracy is two wolves and lamb deciding what to have for dinner.

More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible?

It's not all that complicated. In fact, Albanians from ALBANIA have been have been illegaly crossing over the boarder for years and NATO occupation offered a prime opportunity for a massive influx. Hell, thousands of Albanians from ALBANIA have been discovered in every Country who took in refugees prompting governments to start deporting them.

Ratko, how do you know enough to make that assertion?

Ever heard of a census?

Andrej, check this out
http://photos8.flickr.com/10670056_ec8e1b80fc_m.jpg

And, to tell the whole truth, without the NATO intervention Kostunica wouldn't have had a minimal chance to be the PM of Serbia.
Really funny, this is the only collateral damage of the NATO intervention

The prime minister also said that the Kosovo Serbs had expressed their will to live in Serbia ...

The Kosovar-Serbs want jobs, they don't necessarily care for Serbia.

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia"

What does Kostunica base his claim on?
1. First of all, there has been no census in Kosova/o to confirm what he says. This means what he says is a pure figment of his imagination; he has no facts.
2. The population of Albania increased in 1999 and did not decrease as it would be expected if thousands of Albanians left Albania to go to Kosova/o.
3. Macedonians claim the a great number of Kosovar Albanians stayed and did not go back to Kosova/o. So according to this claim there would less Albanians going back to Kosova/o. Kostunica should talk to his Macedonian counterpart to better coordinate their lies.
4. Thousands of Albanians were refugees in western countries in 1999. Thousands of them never returned back to Kosova after 1999. Again that means less Albanians returned to Kosova/o.
5. Nobody in their right mind would leave the comfort of their home and country to go into a war ravaged place, where everything was burned to the ground, where the were no jobs and the present was grim. If it was so good to go to Kosova/o in 1999 no Serbs would have ever left, on the contrary thousands would have flooded Kosova/o from Serbia.

Just by looking at these facts it is easy to see through the lies of Kostunica.
What is interesting however is that his claims are identical to those of Milosevic and the two plans for the expulsion of Albanians published by the Serb government in 1937 and 1999. Within a few years after these plans there was a massive ethnic cleansing of Albanians. In the first wave of ethnic cleansing Albanians were ethnically cleansed to Turkey through deals between Serbia and Turkey. In the second wave of ethnic cleansing we all know where the Albanians of Kosova/o where sent.
One can only imagine what Kostunica would plan for Albanians in Kosova/o which he thinks as being illegal immigrants. Memories of 1999 come to mind. Thankfully the international community is involved this time.

Clean cut, First of all Kostunica didn't mention anything about Africa or any other part of the world you mentioned. Stop putting words in his mouth. This is what the Albanian camp has been doing all along.
He only mentioned Macedonia and Albania which is very believable.

Second, Please Albanian camp stop constantly likening Serbian leaders to Milosevic. The man has been dead for a long time and if all you have is to still blame him for your troubles then you are indeed in more trouble than I thought.

Every time you read one of the Serbian leaders has said something you don't want the rest of the world to hear (the truth especially) you attack him by likening him to Milosevic. Come up with a bit more constructive critisism of what he has to say than that.

For the one critisizong Ratko and asking him if he was there to count, all I can say is "were you?" Kostunica has obviously credible figures and documents to quote from otherwise he would not make a fool of himself by openly saying something that can be proven wrong. What proof do yo have?

It would ony be a precendent for other areas if they were recognized by the EU and US, etc. That's not going to happen unless there is another flagrant case like in Kosovo.

first he says that more albanians returned after NATO bomings than left.
Then he says in the last one "WE" like he thought that way, or he is US, or the international community.
I think he realy is confused who he is and represents and what he is suposed to do, as well as dont forget that albanians are waiting for him to deliver, or we squalify him from our team

If NATO wanted Kosovo for a "NATO State" that would have happened in 2000 back when Russia was saying "Serbia who" . And America would not have waited 8 years. US forces in Kosovo is 1600 vs 160,000 in Iraq. Use common sense and forget the propaganda.

"I couldn't agree more Vojo. More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible? "

Cannot argue with the likes of Ratko, brumsila etc. on this "argument" but to hear Kostunica also claim such an thing is really laughable. When the war took place, Albania had almost a decade that was opened towards the west. If it was for Albanians from Albania to go somewhere would the go to a war torn region as opposed the western countries? Well I chose the west!!
Kostunica never had any real argument against independence and now he is losing it.

Kostunica, please stop stealing things that the Radicals say. Second, anything is possible. Bosnia was the same thing, it was illegal for them to break off, but they did. Same for Kosmet. They should not break off, nor should BiH, but it is a possibility like it or not.

First off, can't say that I know as a fact that more Albanians came into Kosovo after the war, that I just dont know. But, the numerous documents in UN archives seem to suggest that the influx has been happening. What's worse is that its been happening under NATO's eye. This totally discredits NATO's involvement in 'peace keeping' and suggests a rather biased stance they have in the Balkans. Show me those thousands of identity papers of illegal immigrants and I'll show you that horses really can fly.

Next, the fact that Albania is ruled by an ex-guerilla leader in the Kosovo war is absolutely appalling. This man supported rape against Serbs, murder against Serbs, torture against Serbs, hatred against Serbs, and now he's a legal prime minister? That speaks quite a bit for itself. How/why would anyone vote someone into parliament with a historical background as such? Does this not take away from a nation's trust? Why do the UN, NATO, US, and the whole western world 'fail' to see that? Is it that they do and just want to dismiss it? I think that the current situation is as such, and Serbia's position on the matter is fully backed by international law. This is a key aspect that many fail to see. READ THE BOLD WORDS: SERBIA HAS EVERY RIGHT TO KOSOVO (NOT KOSOVA), AND HAS SUCH UNTIL KOSOVO IS LEGALLY REMOVED FROM IT. UNILATERAL DECLARATION IS ILLEGAL. I tried to word the phrase in a simple manner so that everyone understands it. True, there might have been illegal immigration into Kosovo, and the Serbs just might have been too rash. But the problem is beyond that, you people are failing to see the forest for the trees. Respecting international law and the systems by which we abide to them are so crucial that when we start forgetting them in lieu of ethnocentric ideologies, we de-civilize ourselves to the point of no return. Then, the only thing left is violence, the only way to express our ideas and thoughts. We must digress from this path and search for a way not based on discrimination and hatred but legal justifications for every move involved. I say this so that the Kosovo Albanians can learn to respect that for years now they've been living under Serbian rule and have not nearly been harassed by Serbs than Serbs harassed by Albanians. I suggest that they accept the full autonomy offered to them, and, above all, have the decency to abide international laws that govern everyone's life on planet earth.

to ToniUK, the "swedish" guy... =)

"It is estimated that over
800 000 mainly Kosovar Albanians were sent to Turkey in an egreement (still in force) between ex Jugoslavia (Serbia) and Turkey."

Toni, what is it what drives you to write lies, or half-true things here?

that population transfer with Turkey was planned, indeed.
but it never took place, because of the outbreak of WW II.

so, please, don´t spread lies here...
stick to the truth, you can only lose by using that kind of misleading comments!

Oh my God that must be scary)))

Western Europe and the USA are the main ones to blame in this mess of the former Yugoslavia. If they hadn't been so quick to recognize Slovenia and Croatia's independence, we wouldn't even be talking about Kosovo.

Now look at what has happened, Seljaci rule over the educated mainstream Yugoslavs who aren't buying the nationalistic garbage that has been created.

I have no ties to any side of the conflict in the region, every side has committed atrocities.....Slovenia was wrong for first declaring independence, Croatia was wrong for discriminating against Krajina Serbs, which led to independent Krajina, Bosnian Serbs and Croats were wrong in Bosnia, and Kosovars are wrong now.

The US did the RIGHT thing in Bosnia, but the wrong thing in Kosovo. Evveryone's view in here is pretty biased as far as I'm concerned.

We used to have a great country under Tito regime, as matter fact we will never live anymore as under YU
Labinoti, 16 December 2007 18:47)

My comment:
Labinot, you seem to miss Tito and his regime a lot. I don't and I don't know any of K-Albanians who misses Tito nor any regime. Unless, of course, you make comparison between Tito's regime and Milosevic's then Tito's regime wasn't as brutal as Milosevic's but both, nonetheless, were brutal against majority of K-Albanians. Does 1968 rings the bell?

Labinot:
"As for Albanians coming from Albania it holds a bit true, but not very large numbers as you might think, as matter of fact very few (they are more interested to immigrate to western Europe and not Kosovo)."

My comment
Labinot, you seem to know those few but, honestly, I do not. Just out of curiosity, are you talking about post-war Kosova or pre-war? Or, are you talking about cases where K-Albanians born in Kosova but due to regime, had to leave Kosova and went to live in Albania - only to return back few years later with their kids born there and their birth's certificate stating the city of Albania? Are you talking for such cases or what?

If you are talking about these "Albanians from Albania" then I must say you are wrong, because they are not Albanians from Albania but K-Albanians returning to their birthplace. Which, as I stated above, they had to leave Kosova for different reasons. Usually when they came back to Kosova they went to live in a different part of Kosova due to anonymity they wanted to keep, for the fear of persecution either by regime or revenge etc.

I know this for a fact because my granddad was born in a village near Prishtina but had to leave the village due to an argument with a Serb neighbour. He was married and, with no kids at the time, he went to Elbasan, Albania. During these 4 years (1937-41) two of their kids were born in Elbasan.
After this, they(my grandparents) had two more kids born in Prishtina, my father being one, continued living in Prishtina minding their own business. Unfortunately for them, and many others on similar cases, after 1968, the Tito's regime started sweeping Kosova from these "illegal immigrants" and for many years they lived in fears of being deported. Not just those who were born and lived for 2 years(my uncle) or 8 month (my aunt), but the whole family. Anyway, it was obvious for us, Albanians, that the regime was looking for any excuse to deport Albanians, they use the same propaganda even to this day. If we are led to believe this, then my aunt is an illegal immigrant.

Now, to cut the story short, if you ask my aunt and uncle where were they born, of course they will tell you in Elbasan, Albania and so will their birth's certificate.
But, you can't call them illegal immigrants or Albanians from Albania, even less, knowing that their parents were born in Kosova but stayed in Albania for 4 years only

Labinot:
"As matter of fact I don’t like them either, and I don’t want them in Kosovo at all (speaking of Albanians from Albania)".

My comment:
We've just seen the sheer arrogance of someone who misses his Marshall Tito, no surprise there.
Just so you know, Kosova is free, and Albanians, where ever they are and live, are the most hospitable people on earth. Not only I welcome them, my Albanian brothers, with my open heart, but anyone who wish to come and live in Kosova are welcome. We welcomed even Chinese for God's sake and we all know what China thinks about us.
Thanks God you cannot speak on behalf of all K-Albanians and even less on my name.

Labinot:
"They way they took advantage of Kosovo war is just un-acceptable, we were dying in Kosovo and they were using Kosovo as pretext to immigrate, and did contribute so little or nothing, and I have no respect for these people at all, all they care is immigrate from their own creation, and they don’t care about their country and they don’t work about their country, for these kind of people I really have no respect at all I repeat myself."

My comment:
How did they took advantage of Kosova' s war? Are your referring to the fact that they claimed to be K-Albanians in order to claim refugees status? Well, while it is true, only few, claimed to be K-Albanians, but this number is very, very small. So small, that is not worth mentioning it. I know many cases where other nations used Kosova's war as well as other wars all over the world. You have similar cases with wars in Africa, Middle East, so no big deal.

Mention of Africa, it reminded me of a Somalian guy claiming to be a refugee from Kosova :)). I was called by an Immigration officer to go and translate for them, went there and I enter the room only to see the room full of officers, laughing, some standing some sitting on the table. By the other end of the table, there was an African guy, scared and just waiting.
Needless to say but I was speechless when I was told that this "Kosovar guy" needs an interpreter. Anyway, in other words, this guy heard about war in Kosova and decided to claim to be a refugee from Kosova, without even knowing where Kosova is or their people.

As for Albania's contribution, well they helped as much as they could. Did you forgot that they open their borders for over 450 thousand refugees? Over half of them, 230 thousands, were hosted by Albanian families. Despite some of them being poor, in rural areas, still, they took them in their homes with open hearts. How dare you say they didn't help K-Albanians? If it wasn't for Albania and their contribution, today Kosova wouldn't be here where it is. Do you know how many KLA soldiers were treated in Albanian hospitals?

Labinot:
"But we Kosovans are different, we care about our country and we fought for, our Diaspora worked so much and spent so much money, money which is not easy in those Western countries. "

My comments:
You can only talk about yourself, I am K-Albanian and to this day I never noticed any difference between an A-Albanian and K-Albanian. The only difference is the accent of our mother tongue, Albanian.
If you are talking about patriotism, well just don't forget that we were occupied and lived under an occupier, hence our patriotism was more obvious and visible but that is not to say they didn't care nor do care about Albania. I am sorry if you feel that way, but again, what does one expect from one who misses Tito and his regime.

Kostunica: "We thus arrive to a conclusion that after the bombing, the next thing was to create an unusual entity, a NATO state in the territory of Kosovo, with a capital in a U.S. army base, known as Bondsteel.

lazer:"an UNUSUALL ENTITY, yes it is unusuall to you Mr. PM, it is democratic and free of Serbian oppression".

P.S. At least Kostunica wasn't a former Geurilla militia man. and has some credible education in law!
(Andrej, 16 December 2007 15:45)

Andrej, don't forget the Milosevic had some "credible education in law", and look where that got the serbian nation... with a rhetoric like Kosunica's, history seems to repeat itself, but the outcome will be very much different this time. Paddy Ashdown said it best: "...there are some nations who forfeited the moral authority to govern - the moral claim to sovereignty - simply by dint of their own actions. That was true of the British in Ireland 80 years ago. It's true of Serbia's historic claim to Kosovo now."

Flamur...

you were not occupied.. you are the ones who were the minority, it was always so until you became the "majority" because of several ethnic cleansings commited by the Albanians, and your higher birthrate.

so, please, do not lie, it was never yours, and never will be yours. UNSC 1244 is the last word on it...

you will feel like you won, but actually ...you got nothing because those who take care of security do it on behalf of the true owners...and that is, I am afraid you still do not realize it..., that is Serbia.

and as long UNSC 1244 is in effect... you can just dream of "independence"...

Serbia will enter the EU with UNSC 1244 in effect... and that is very important. that means, the last word on sovereignty over Kosovo will be serbian.
let´s see what future brings...

:)

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia, while at the same time nothing was done to bring back the exiled Serbs," Koštunica said."

Can you show us proof of what you are saying, if not then I suggest you concern on internal problems and not Kosova since you dont have say on that nation, thats right you dont!

Of all ppl who left the Slobo regim, few returned back. He should count us in summer times see how fast we fill it with 300.000+ alone in that period, but that he can add western nation as where we come from too...

guys, its Kosovo, not kosova

oh ! god still this guy talking no sens, where this person got education or if he has any?

you wonder why this will be another battle lost for serbia?

look at your leaders and think for a minute.

it's unbelievable that this man makes such remarks, almost a decade later after the war!

serbia still in the dark ages

If we dont get INDEPENDENCE we will UNITE WITH ALBANIA !

Jovan,

There are some swedish balkan experts, and I did stady balkan history.

I don't claim to be one of them but I only talk about thigs I know. And I can not say the same thing about you.

Transfer of albanians to Turkey happened after World War II.

As far as Kosova and were Swedish elected Riksdag and Regering stands, it a well known fact.

Our FM does have body gurds since 99 by the way.We have learned the leason.

Koshtunica is great. Every time he opens his mouth, he reminds the world that Serbia's leaders have not moved away from the kind of dangerous nationalism espoused by Miloshevic. Koshtunica is the best advocate for the idependence of KosovA. It is interesting that he has chosen to go to the UN and not Tadic. The hardliners are in control in Serbia and this is even better news for KosovA.

At last Kostunica has come to recognise the enormity of Camp Bondsteel.

These are the repercussions for any State that fails in it's obligation to protect any of it's citizens whatever the ethnicity.

Why is is that Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Macedonia all complain about the Albanian 'element'? I never hear stories that Albania complaining about the 'adverse' impact of Serbian, Macedonians, Greek or Montenegrin culture in Albania? Its obvious that the Albanians are moving slowly but surely in to 'Christian' countries and causing disturbances. Honestly, I'm not racist or religious but this is the reality!!!

The Anglo -Saxon world does not understand these social subtleties as it is generally excessively vocal but completely ignorant of balkan mentalities!!

All of us ,include the serbs led by Kostunica, worked hard for the future.

This whole thread just makes me want to get beer.

Haven't we heard all this before? Does anybody have any new ideas on how y'all can live together without fighting?

Oh, wait, the Serbs started it. No, it was the Albanians, no it was the Serbs, no, the Albanians . . .

Your politicians are cashing in while all y'all get hosed!

Wake up!

LMK, I hear you.

He continues with baseless lies about non-Serbs comming to Serbia from EVERYWHERE, even US, Africa, China, Argentina, etc who come to Kosova to take Serbian land and sell it to other Argentinians and Eskimos and so on...

The day that we will not have to deal with people like this guy is weeks away.

Pure Serbian "inat" and arrogance...

How does this guy expect Kosovars to consider him a "premier" and live in the same country with him when he lies through his teeth by insulting and saying that "… we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia..."

I am so glad that we no longer have anything to do with him, his country or anyone around him. He is worse than Milosevic.

Ratko, how do you know enough to make that assertion? Were you there counting the people leaving and coming in? Were you also part of the serb guards destroying identity documents in front of cameras?

Kostunica: "We thus arrive to a conclusion that after the bombing, the next thing was to create an unusual entity, a NATO state in the territory of Kosovo, with a capital in a U.S. army base, known as Bondstill,"

and they are offering an EU memebrship to this country :) he sounds as Milosevic :)
Serbia is not ready to join the democratic world yet... unfortunately... but we can turn page and go on with our life

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia, while at the same time nothing was done to bring back the exiled Serbs," Koštunica said.


Wow!!!
I guess things in serbia will never change,allways the same chorus,Albanians migrated in Kosovo from Caucasus,then from turkey,during Titos regime from Albania,and now even after 1999 war,again from albania and also Fyrom.The "funny" thing is that in Fyrom,they use the same arguments,but they claim a totaly different thing,saying that many albanians never left and this took to an increase of the albanian community there.
Well mr Kostunica i suppose that these kind of lies are tolerable during electoral campaigns,and by the way lets hope your faction is going to win,we(albanians)need politicians of your genre on the head of the serbian state,especially now that Kosova is going to be independent and will not have to deal with you directly.
Milosevic and his politics "delivered" to Albanians their independence,and now im quite sure that Kostunica soon or later will "give" us the UN seat.

Dont warry we will do the same when we declare independence, we will null and void your constitutuion first, then null all the rest and proclaim serbia an illegal entity, with no status,
which will need to be negotiated, because we would like serbia to have only automomy under kosova.
I am sure you will accept as soon as we offer it, you will not have any other better offer.

It is estimated that over
800 000 mainly Kosovar Albanians were sent to Turkey in an egreement (still in force) between ex Jugoslavia (Serbia) and Turkey.
Repression and later war made many more albanians to leave Kosovo, but seems also to have lead to Kosovo breaking away.

Yet after Serbs and Croats albanians are the 3rd largest ethnic group living in ex-jugo federation.

Albanians have been removed from ex-Jugo federatin, and not the other way around, but still anough to populate Kosovo to 95%. Like it or not Mr Kostunica, and they understandebly do not want you to be their PM.

It is true that more serbs lived in Ks in the past, and studies show that most of them left during 1970-19998 because of economical reasons, and than it was the war, not the unresolved statust issue. No one can blame enyone for leaving if they could have a better life in Serbia.

Kosovar Serbs will be guarantied by Ksovar gov (serbs included) EU, and IC safety, security and rights as any minority anywere in a democratic country and more (Ahtisaari Plan).

Let's be honest, you do not wish to be their PM either, all your efforts are to score political points agaions your other serbian political oponents.

Well done B92. For having Kosovos and serbias PM's on the same page:

Kostunica "Kosovo cannot be independent"

Thaqi " Kosovos Indipendence a matter of weeks"

We shall see, the time will tell, 2008 is coming.

Andrej, check this out
http://photos8.flickr.com/10670056_ec8e1b80fc_m.jpg

And, to tell the whole truth, without the NATO intervention Kostunica wouldn't have had a minimal chance to be the PM of Serbia.
Really funny, this is the only collateral damage of the NATO intervention

Ok, I'm Kosovo Albanian, and I was born and lived for 24 years in Prishtina. We used to have a great country under Tito regime, as matter fact we will never live anymore as under YU. But then seems that Serbs wanted all for themselves and destroyed the thing.
As for Albanians coming from Albania it holds a bit true, but not very large numbers as you might think, as matter of fact very few (they are more interested to immigrate to western Europe and not Kosovo). As matter of fact I don’t like them either, and I don’t want them in Kosovo at all (speaking of Albanians from Albania). They way they took advantage of Kosovo war is just un-acceptable, we were dying in Kosovo and they were using Kosovo as pretext to immigrate, and did contribute so little or nothing, and I have no respect for these people at all, all they care is immigrate from their own creation, and they don’t care about their country and they don’t work about their country, for these kind of people I really have no respect at all I repeat myself. But we Kosovans are different, we care about our country and we fought for, our Diaspora worked so much and spent so much money, money which is not easy in those Western countries.
I would ask now Kostunica why on first place KS albs left Kosovo? And I’m sure that an honest answer would satisfy the claim for Independence, Serbia should look forward, and get into EU, and not fight for something that has no control over for 9 years now.

first he says that more albanians returned after NATO bomings than left.
Then he says in the last one "WE" like he thought that way, or he is US, or the international community.
I think he realy is confused who he is and represents and what he is suposed to do, as well as dont forget that albanians are waiting for him to deliver, or we squalify him from our team

The prime minister also said that the Kosovo Serbs had expressed their will to live in Serbia ...

The Kosovar-Serbs want jobs, they don't necessarily care for Serbia.

"I couldn't agree more Vojo. More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible? "

Cannot argue with the likes of Ratko, brumsila etc. on this "argument" but to hear Kostunica also claim such an thing is really laughable. When the war took place, Albania had almost a decade that was opened towards the west. If it was for Albanians from Albania to go somewhere would the go to a war torn region as opposed the western countries? Well I chose the west!!
Kostunica never had any real argument against independence and now he is losing it.

I couldn't agree more Vojo. More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible? Well Vojo just explained it all... nato project from the start, I mean I should say american project.
(Ratko, 16 December 2007 14:38)

Ratko, asking why there are more K-Albanians now then prewar and then stating that because of A-Albanians coming to Kosova, confirms what we Albanians, EU and USA have been saying all along.

Your Vojo is just doing what Milosevic started and he speaks what Milosevic would today or had in mind. Your Vojo is just an executor of a well organized and well planned will of Milosevic and Orthodox Church.

The fact is that when Milosevic expelled almost a milion Albanians from Kosova, he destroyed their ID cards as well. By doing that it was just a matter of time before Serbian Government would use this as some form of defense line. Today Vojo said and so did you.

But no worries, EU knows what was stood behind this scenario, destroying K-Albanians ID, so you Serbs would claim they are not K-Albanians.
I am sure that you would even dare to ask us to prove that we are K-Albanian by producing an ID, knowing very well that we can't, because you destroyed our IDs for very same purpose. But, nonetheless, I can prove that I was born and bred in Kosova by millions of other means.

Funny how when refugees returned to Kosova, they all knew where their homes were.
For someone who never lived there, to an unknown territory, this would've been very confusing.

Where is a common sense when one makes such claim?

Just think about it for a second, Albania was poorer than Yugoslavia and yet when Albanian's borders were open, they all went to other EU countries but not in Yugoslavia. Most of them headed towards Italy, Greece, USA etc but not Yugoslavia and even less towards Kosova, which was much poorer than any part of Yugoslavia.

Now, lets talk about Kosova post war.
Albania was much richer than Kosova post war. Kosova's economy was destroyed, homes, infrastructure, fields mined, killings still going on by either side etc.

Having all this in mind, why would someone, from Albania, with little common sense, go to a country which offers no jobs, no homes, no security? By this time(90-99), almost 9 years, A-Albanians were all over EU and USA, hence their family's standard living in Albania were much better than K-Albanians in post war Kosova. Therefore, to anyone with common sense, this idea of Serbian's Gov make no sense. To say that Albanians from Albania, Macedonia etc, came to live in Kosova's post war just not true.

But,having said that, if you ask how comes there are more K-Albanians, post war Kosova, then there were say at begining of 90's or prior to 90's then the answer is simple. When Serbia occupied Kosova in 89, expelled K-Albanians from their jobs, removed their basic rights, Albanians had no choice but to leave Kosova. These Albanians, mainly young, including me, went to other EU's countries to work in order to feed their families back in Kosova which, as I said, they were jobless and with no other income.

These young K-Albanians, as any human beings, didn't stay young for ever but of course got older, got married, created their own families, kids etc. During their time in EU, some didn't have their permanent status to stay in the country they lived and work. After the liberation of Kosova, many EU countries, mainly Germany, since majority of K-ALbanians concentrated there, were deported because according to the Immigration rules, there were no fears of persecution from Serbian Army after 99.

So yes, there were more K-Albanians(who were born & bred in Kosova) post war than they were 98/99 because these returnees were K-Albanians who left Kosova during the years 89-96 and not because they came from Albania.
Another fact is worth mentioning, these young K-Albanians who left Kosova were mainly singles and when they returned/deported from EU, they came with their family of 3-5(wife & kids).I hope this answers your question Ratko, "how is this possible?"

Another fact, there are more Chinese people living and working in Kosova than they are Albanians from Albania & Macedonia. Since the liberation of Kosova I went to Kosova many times, I actually stayed there for 2 years 02-04, and I can honestly say that I did not met a single Albanian from Albania living in Prishtina, the capital city. If they came for a better life and jobs then Prishtina, as a capital city, they would head to. I know Prishtina very well and every corner of it but there were no Albanians from Albania.

Those that I met or heard of, only few, were working as truck drivers importing goods from Albania & Macedonia. I don't know if you can count one as a citizen if he is there only for few hours or days. If you count them as such then other countries should check the numbers of their population as well. Imagine, London, is visited by millions in any single day, either as tourist or on business trip.

And they say Kostunica is different from Milosevic, well I don't see any difference, neither does EU & USA, can you? If you do, then please enlighten us.

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia"

What does Kostunica base his claim on?
1. First of all, there has been no census in Kosova/o to confirm what he says. This means what he says is a pure figment of his imagination; he has no facts.
2. The population of Albania increased in 1999 and did not decrease as it would be expected if thousands of Albanians left Albania to go to Kosova/o.
3. Macedonians claim the a great number of Kosovar Albanians stayed and did not go back to Kosova/o. So according to this claim there would less Albanians going back to Kosova/o. Kostunica should talk to his Macedonian counterpart to better coordinate their lies.
4. Thousands of Albanians were refugees in western countries in 1999. Thousands of them never returned back to Kosova after 1999. Again that means less Albanians returned to Kosova/o.
5. Nobody in their right mind would leave the comfort of their home and country to go into a war ravaged place, where everything was burned to the ground, where the were no jobs and the present was grim. If it was so good to go to Kosova/o in 1999 no Serbs would have ever left, on the contrary thousands would have flooded Kosova/o from Serbia.

Just by looking at these facts it is easy to see through the lies of Kostunica.
What is interesting however is that his claims are identical to those of Milosevic and the two plans for the expulsion of Albanians published by the Serb government in 1937 and 1999. Within a few years after these plans there was a massive ethnic cleansing of Albanians. In the first wave of ethnic cleansing Albanians were ethnically cleansed to Turkey through deals between Serbia and Turkey. In the second wave of ethnic cleansing we all know where the Albanians of Kosova/o where sent.
One can only imagine what Kostunica would plan for Albanians in Kosova/o which he thinks as being illegal immigrants. Memories of 1999 come to mind. Thankfully the international community is involved this time.

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia, while at the same time nothing was done to bring back the exiled Serbs," Koštunica said.


That is very much truth. Those Albanians are moving smoothly everywhere, even in Serbia. I just wonder how many of them came to Kosovo and settled overthere. In few years they will form new families, and in few years again new families and so on. Somebody must do something on this. The indetity should be checked and everyone who is illegaly in Kosovo should be sent back to Albania. This investigation would last long but it would be useful.

In the flat that I used to live while in Pristina now live some family that came from Albania taht had no any links with Kosovo previously.

Serbia is not ready to join the democratic world.

Democracy is two wolves and lamb deciding what to have for dinner.

More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible?

It's not all that complicated. In fact, Albanians from ALBANIA have been have been illegaly crossing over the boarder for years and NATO occupation offered a prime opportunity for a massive influx. Hell, thousands of Albanians from ALBANIA have been discovered in every Country who took in refugees prompting governments to start deporting them.

Ratko, how do you know enough to make that assertion?

Ever heard of a census?

I couldn't agree more Vojo. More albanians returned than had left. How is this possible? Well Vojo just explained it all... nato project from the start, I mean I should say american project.

It would ony be a precendent for other areas if they were recognized by the EU and US, etc. That's not going to happen unless there is another flagrant case like in Kosovo.

Oh my God that must be scary)))

Kostunica: "We thus arrive to a conclusion that after the bombing, the next thing was to create an unusual entity, a NATO state in the territory of Kosovo, with a capital in a U.S. army base, known as Bondsteel.

lazer:"an UNUSUALL ENTITY, yes it is unusuall to you Mr. PM, it is democratic and free of Serbian oppression".

oh ! god still this guy talking no sens, where this person got education or if he has any?

Ben, what are you talking about? This is a perfectly legal and democratic statement Mr.Kostunica is making. This is why the EU is so hung up. Serbia has every legal term on it's side and now Nato and co. wan't to clean up their mess but they know they can't. I applaud Mr.Kostunica as he is stating a very valid and very precise case. No unillateral moves, no declarations! Only negotiations through legal institutions!

P.S. At least Kostunica wasn't a former Geurilla militia man. and has some credible education in law!

If NATO wanted Kosovo for a "NATO State" that would have happened in 2000 back when Russia was saying "Serbia who" . And America would not have waited 8 years. US forces in Kosovo is 1600 vs 160,000 in Iraq. Use common sense and forget the propaganda.

If any of the superpowers do not like or agree with what Kostunica says, they shouldn't have backed the US in PUSHING him into office in the 90s.

Thank you for giving us this mouth for our rights to our KosovO - US, UN & EU!!

Kostunica, please stop stealing things that the Radicals say. Second, anything is possible. Bosnia was the same thing, it was illegal for them to break off, but they did. Same for Kosmet. They should not break off, nor should BiH, but it is a possibility like it or not.

P.S. At least Kostunica wasn't a former Geurilla militia man. and has some credible education in law!
(Andrej, 16 December 2007 15:45)

Andrej, don't forget the Milosevic had some "credible education in law", and look where that got the serbian nation... with a rhetoric like Kosunica's, history seems to repeat itself, but the outcome will be very much different this time. Paddy Ashdown said it best: "...there are some nations who forfeited the moral authority to govern - the moral claim to sovereignty - simply by dint of their own actions. That was true of the British in Ireland 80 years ago. It's true of Serbia's historic claim to Kosovo now."

you wonder why this will be another battle lost for serbia?

look at your leaders and think for a minute.

it's unbelievable that this man makes such remarks, almost a decade later after the war!

serbia still in the dark ages

"Later on we saw Albanians return – more returned than had previously left. They came from Albania, Macedonia, while at the same time nothing was done to bring back the exiled Serbs," Koštunica said."

Can you show us proof of what you are saying, if not then I suggest you concern on internal problems and not Kosova since you dont have say on that nation, thats right you dont!

Of all ppl who left the Slobo regim, few returned back. He should count us in summer times see how fast we fill it with 300.000+ alone in that period, but that he can add western nation as where we come from too...

At last Kostunica has come to recognise the enormity of Camp Bondsteel.

These are the repercussions for any State that fails in it's obligation to protect any of it's citizens whatever the ethnicity.

If we dont get INDEPENDENCE we will UNITE WITH ALBANIA !

We used to have a great country under Tito regime, as matter fact we will never live anymore as under YU
Labinoti, 16 December 2007 18:47)

My comment:
Labinot, you seem to miss Tito and his regime a lot. I don't and I don't know any of K-Albanians who misses Tito nor any regime. Unless, of course, you make comparison between Tito's regime and Milosevic's then Tito's regime wasn't as brutal as Milosevic's but both, nonetheless, were brutal against majority of K-Albanians. Does 1968 rings the bell?

Labinot:
"As for Albanians coming from Albania it holds a bit true, but not very large numbers as you might think, as matter of fact very few (they are more interested to immigrate to western Europe and not Kosovo)."

My comment
Labinot, you seem to know those few but, honestly, I do not. Just out of curiosity, are you talking about post-war Kosova or pre-war? Or, are you talking about cases where K-Albanians born in Kosova but due to regime, had to leave Kosova and went to live in Albania - only to return back few years later with their kids born there and their birth's certificate stating the city of Albania? Are you talking for such cases or what?

If you are talking about these "Albanians from Albania" then I must say you are wrong, because they are not Albanians from Albania but K-Albanians returning to their birthplace. Which, as I stated above, they had to leave Kosova for different reasons. Usually when they came back to Kosova they went to live in a different part of Kosova due to anonymity they wanted to keep, for the fear of persecution either by regime or revenge etc.

I know this for a fact because my granddad was born in a village near Prishtina but had to leave the village due to an argument with a Serb neighbour. He was married and, with no kids at the time, he went to Elbasan, Albania. During these 4 years (1937-41) two of their kids were born in Elbasan.
After this, they(my grandparents) had two more kids born in Prishtina, my father being one, continued living in Prishtina minding their own business. Unfortunately for them, and many others on similar cases, after 1968, the Tito's regime started sweeping Kosova from these "illegal immigrants" and for many years they lived in fears of being deported. Not just those who were born and lived for 2 years(my uncle) or 8 month (my aunt), but the whole family. Anyway, it was obvious for us, Albanians, that the regime was looking for any excuse to deport Albanians, they use the same propaganda even to this day. If we are led to believe this, then my aunt is an illegal immigrant.

Now, to cut the story short, if you ask my aunt and uncle where were they born, of course they will tell you in Elbasan, Albania and so will their birth's certificate.
But, you can't call them illegal immigrants or Albanians from Albania, even less, knowing that their parents were born in Kosova but stayed in Albania for 4 years only

Labinot:
"As matter of fact I don’t like them either, and I don’t want them in Kosovo at all (speaking of Albanians from Albania)".

My comment:
We've just seen the sheer arrogance of someone who misses his Marshall Tito, no surprise there.
Just so you know, Kosova is free, and Albanians, where ever they are and live, are the most hospitable people on earth. Not only I welcome them, my Albanian brothers, with my open heart, but anyone who wish to come and live in Kosova are welcome. We welcomed even Chinese for God's sake and we all know what China thinks about us.
Thanks God you cannot speak on behalf of all K-Albanians and even less on my name.

Labinot:
"They way they took advantage of Kosovo war is just un-acceptable, we were dying in Kosovo and they were using Kosovo as pretext to immigrate, and did contribute so little or nothing, and I have no respect for these people at all, all they care is immigrate from their own creation, and they don’t care about their country and they don’t work about their country, for these kind of people I really have no respect at all I repeat myself."

My comment:
How did they took advantage of Kosova' s war? Are your referring to the fact that they claimed to be K-Albanians in order to claim refugees status? Well, while it is true, only few, claimed to be K-Albanians, but this number is very, very small. So small, that is not worth mentioning it. I know many cases where other nations used Kosova's war as well as other wars all over the world. You have similar cases with wars in Africa, Middle East, so no big deal.

Mention of Africa, it reminded me of a Somalian guy claiming to be a refugee from Kosova :)). I was called by an Immigration officer to go and translate for them, went there and I enter the room only to see the room full of officers, laughing, some standing some sitting on the table. By the other end of the table, there was an African guy, scared and just waiting.
Needless to say but I was speechless when I was told that this "Kosovar guy" needs an interpreter. Anyway, in other words, this guy heard about war in Kosova and decided to claim to be a refugee from Kosova, without even knowing where Kosova is or their people.

As for Albania's contribution, well they helped as much as they could. Did you forgot that they open their borders for over 450 thousand refugees? Over half of them, 230 thousands, were hosted by Albanian families. Despite some of them being poor, in rural areas, still, they took them in their homes with open hearts. How dare you say they didn't help K-Albanians? If it wasn't for Albania and their contribution, today Kosova wouldn't be here where it is. Do you know how many KLA soldiers were treated in Albanian hospitals?

Labinot:
"But we Kosovans are different, we care about our country and we fought for, our Diaspora worked so much and spent so much money, money which is not easy in those Western countries. "

My comments:
You can only talk about yourself, I am K-Albanian and to this day I never noticed any difference between an A-Albanian and K-Albanian. The only difference is the accent of our mother tongue, Albanian.
If you are talking about patriotism, well just don't forget that we were occupied and lived under an occupier, hence our patriotism was more obvious and visible but that is not to say they didn't care nor do care about Albania. I am sorry if you feel that way, but again, what does one expect from one who misses Tito and his regime.

Kostunica is absolutely correct, and I applaud him for speaking the truth. Notice the hostility of the 'greater albania' team on here. They hate to hear the truth, and anyone who speaks the truth they accuse of being 'another Milosevic'. This is their strategy, probasbly told to them by Ruder Finn.
I remember a former landlord of mine telling me about new albanian tennants who claimed they were from Kosovo and were expelled by the Serbs. The landlord, who had been to Kosovo before, started asking them questions about certain places and names there, and it became evident to him that these people were not from Kosovo at all, but from Albania! They told some gullible UN schmuck that the Serbs had cleansed them, raped them, beat them.....just to claim refugee status and get on a plane to Canada. This kind of garbage is rampant and the truth needs to be told about what is really going on. I am glad that Kostunica has the fortitude and the guts to speak the truth. Serbia could not have a better prime minister.

Kosovo is not ready to secede from Serbia. History has proven that you really cannot have a democracy unless certain conditions are met.

For example, countries with a democratic tradition always had some history of self determination. Kosovo with the exception of the greater Albania alliance with Nazi Germany has always been attached to no other state than a Serbian one.

Also, the country must have some economic and industrial viability. As things stand now Kosovo is dependant on international welfare and the black market. In short, it's economy is of questional viability.

Lastly, you cannot have the type of animosity between ethnicities that exists between Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo. Otherwise one side will always hold the other captive. I won't evan talk about the repect for law and order issue in Kosovo or the dangerous precedent a unilateral secession would cause within the world order.

As of now the above conditions do not exist, and still need to be developed regionally. Premature independence will only hurt the long term development of those areas in Kosovo and the region.

Jovan,

There are some swedish balkan experts, and I did stady balkan history.

I don't claim to be one of them but I only talk about thigs I know. And I can not say the same thing about you.

Transfer of albanians to Turkey happened after World War II.

As far as Kosova and were Swedish elected Riksdag and Regering stands, it a well known fact.

Our FM does have body gurds since 99 by the way.We have learned the leason.

Western Europe and the USA are the main ones to blame in this mess of the former Yugoslavia. If they hadn't been so quick to recognize Slovenia and Croatia's independence, we wouldn't even be talking about Kosovo.

Now look at what has happened, Seljaci rule over the educated mainstream Yugoslavs who aren't buying the nationalistic garbage that has been created.

I have no ties to any side of the conflict in the region, every side has committed atrocities.....Slovenia was wrong for first declaring independence, Croatia was wrong for discriminating against Krajina Serbs, which led to independent Krajina, Bosnian Serbs and Croats were wrong in Bosnia, and Kosovars are wrong now.

The US did the RIGHT thing in Bosnia, but the wrong thing in Kosovo. Evveryone's view in here is pretty biased as far as I'm concerned.

First off, can't say that I know as a fact that more Albanians came into Kosovo after the war, that I just dont know. But, the numerous documents in UN archives seem to suggest that the influx has been happening. What's worse is that its been happening under NATO's eye. This totally discredits NATO's involvement in 'peace keeping' and suggests a rather biased stance they have in the Balkans. Show me those thousands of identity papers of illegal immigrants and I'll show you that horses really can fly.

Next, the fact that Albania is ruled by an ex-guerilla leader in the Kosovo war is absolutely appalling. This man supported rape against Serbs, murder against Serbs, torture against Serbs, hatred against Serbs, and now he's a legal prime minister? That speaks quite a bit for itself. How/why would anyone vote someone into parliament with a historical background as such? Does this not take away from a nation's trust? Why do the UN, NATO, US, and the whole western world 'fail' to see that? Is it that they do and just want to dismiss it? I think that the current situation is as such, and Serbia's position on the matter is fully backed by international law. This is a key aspect that many fail to see. READ THE BOLD WORDS: SERBIA HAS EVERY RIGHT TO KOSOVO (NOT KOSOVA), AND HAS SUCH UNTIL KOSOVO IS LEGALLY REMOVED FROM IT. UNILATERAL DECLARATION IS ILLEGAL. I tried to word the phrase in a simple manner so that everyone understands it. True, there might have been illegal immigration into Kosovo, and the Serbs just might have been too rash. But the problem is beyond that, you people are failing to see the forest for the trees. Respecting international law and the systems by which we abide to them are so crucial that when we start forgetting them in lieu of ethnocentric ideologies, we de-civilize ourselves to the point of no return. Then, the only thing left is violence, the only way to express our ideas and thoughts. We must digress from this path and search for a way not based on discrimination and hatred but legal justifications for every move involved. I say this so that the Kosovo Albanians can learn to respect that for years now they've been living under Serbian rule and have not nearly been harassed by Serbs than Serbs harassed by Albanians. I suggest that they accept the full autonomy offered to them, and, above all, have the decency to abide international laws that govern everyone's life on planet earth.

Flamur...

you were not occupied.. you are the ones who were the minority, it was always so until you became the "majority" because of several ethnic cleansings commited by the Albanians, and your higher birthrate.

so, please, do not lie, it was never yours, and never will be yours. UNSC 1244 is the last word on it...

you will feel like you won, but actually ...you got nothing because those who take care of security do it on behalf of the true owners...and that is, I am afraid you still do not realize it..., that is Serbia.

and as long UNSC 1244 is in effect... you can just dream of "independence"...

Serbia will enter the EU with UNSC 1244 in effect... and that is very important. that means, the last word on sovereignty over Kosovo will be serbian.
let´s see what future brings...

:)

Koshtunica is great. Every time he opens his mouth, he reminds the world that Serbia's leaders have not moved away from the kind of dangerous nationalism espoused by Miloshevic. Koshtunica is the best advocate for the idependence of KosovA. It is interesting that he has chosen to go to the UN and not Tadic. The hardliners are in control in Serbia and this is even better news for KosovA.

Why is is that Serbia, Montenegro, Greece and Macedonia all complain about the Albanian 'element'? I never hear stories that Albania complaining about the 'adverse' impact of Serbian, Macedonians, Greek or Montenegrin culture in Albania? Its obvious that the Albanians are moving slowly but surely in to 'Christian' countries and causing disturbances. Honestly, I'm not racist or religious but this is the reality!!!

The Anglo -Saxon world does not understand these social subtleties as it is generally excessively vocal but completely ignorant of balkan mentalities!!

All of us ,include the serbs led by Kostunica, worked hard for the future.

Clean cut, First of all Kostunica didn't mention anything about Africa or any other part of the world you mentioned. Stop putting words in his mouth. This is what the Albanian camp has been doing all along.
He only mentioned Macedonia and Albania which is very believable.

Second, Please Albanian camp stop constantly likening Serbian leaders to Milosevic. The man has been dead for a long time and if all you have is to still blame him for your troubles then you are indeed in more trouble than I thought.

Every time you read one of the Serbian leaders has said something you don't want the rest of the world to hear (the truth especially) you attack him by likening him to Milosevic. Come up with a bit more constructive critisism of what he has to say than that.

For the one critisizong Ratko and asking him if he was there to count, all I can say is "were you?" Kostunica has obviously credible figures and documents to quote from otherwise he would not make a fool of himself by openly saying something that can be proven wrong. What proof do yo have?

to ToniUK, the "swedish" guy... =)

"It is estimated that over
800 000 mainly Kosovar Albanians were sent to Turkey in an egreement (still in force) between ex Jugoslavia (Serbia) and Turkey."

Toni, what is it what drives you to write lies, or half-true things here?

that population transfer with Turkey was planned, indeed.
but it never took place, because of the outbreak of WW II.

so, please, don´t spread lies here...
stick to the truth, you can only lose by using that kind of misleading comments!

guys, its Kosovo, not kosova

This whole thread just makes me want to get beer.

Haven't we heard all this before? Does anybody have any new ideas on how y'all can live together without fighting?

Oh, wait, the Serbs started it. No, it was the Albanians, no it was the Serbs, no, the Albanians . . .

Your politicians are cashing in while all y'all get hosed!

Wake up!

LMK, I hear you.