Slovenia denies plan for Kosovo independence

Seems to me that the media in various EU countries and the US are publishing a lot of wishful thinking at the moment, partly because they would like it to be so, and partly to try and pacify while they decide what to do.

"It adds that the EU and Europeans have to show “who is boss in their own backyard”"

Best way to do this is to not rush the issue; hold further talks without the carrot dangling in the wings; work towards a genuine compromise; and not be swayed by inferred threats of violence.

The matters of forcing a nation to lose 15% of its territory, and of trashing the legal framework which keeps us all safe, are not minor issues. They affect all of us in Europe and beyond.

This is the major responsibility at stake for the EU, and I am glad to see that some leaders still have some logic and responsibility about them.

On another thread some friendly soul asked why someone from 'outside' (ie. not Serbian) would be concerned about this issue. That is extremely short-sighted - this is an issue for the whole of Europe, not just one province which unfortunately finds itself in the middle.

I don't believe Mr. Janša.

The attached link gives another perspective..."From the very beginning, Germany and Europe have been determined to conquer the Balkans, be it by force or in a web of diplomatic maneuvers.
In 2003, EU Commission President Romano Prodi promised that all Balkan countries—if they danced to the EU’s tune of course—could “become members of the EU one day.” While they might not necessarily become members on the same day, and each would have to follow its own course, he said, nonetheless, “in the long run, [the] Balkans belong strictly to the EU” (EUobserver, Jan. 10, 2003).

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=4556.2818.0.0

TO FLORIN -

On another note, I am saddened that the Serbian government is trying to shut down and intimidate B92, one of the few places where Albanians can have their voice heard in Serbian media. Milosevic's shadow still lives on!
(Florin, 14 December 2007 16:07)

B92 is for the world to voice their opinions & not just the albanians. To isolate your specific heritage is being small minded.

To the article at hand, IF KosovO becomes independent & IF KosovO becomes part of the EU, tra-la-la.

According to documented media, Croatia has done everything it was supposed to do as part of their obligation to the ICTY & they're still not even on the radar of becoming part of the EU due to their conflicts with Slovenija as well as many other concerns.

KosovO becoming independant will not ensure any EU entry soley based on their inability to act in a humane way & deal with the monetary responsibility as the invaders have been too reliant on Serbia for too long.

This just isn't going to happen - particularly since "Janša said that “Slovenia has not prepared any special plans for Kosovo outside of the EU.“

PLEASE NOTICE THE WORD PLAY:

“Slovenia has not prepared any special plans for Kosovo outside of the EU.“

The "outside of the EU" part is they key to the whole article. They are saying that they did not prepare anything without EU approval, but they are also impliedly saying that they did prepare something INSIDE the EU. It is what lawyers call a "negative pregnant" statement. Very slick way of saying that Slovenia will be one of the first to recognize Kosovo's independence. I see nothing in this statement that should make the Serbian camp happy.

On another note, I am saddened that the Serbian government is trying to shut down and intimidate B92, one of the few places where Albanians can have their voice heard in Serbian media. Milosevic's shadow still lives on!

An excellent article of Anthony Loyd on The Time titled “Kosovo deserves its independence”.
Justly he takes a long overdue pop at so-called revisionist who oppose independence with little regard for morality.
We familiar with this forum might recognise them under the impartial name of 'concerned European'.
A very rewarding read indeed.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3037002.ece

It will happen earlier, but thanks anyway!

Very brave from Slovenia, it took a lot of courage in choosing side on the Kosovo issue, since we've been living under the same roof for 80 years. I expect this will be followed by some brave act from Serbian government, which should show her courage being first to recognize Kosova indenpendance.

MR Cut it will happen When Hashim Thaci says it will unless he say it is going to happen i won't believe anything anyone esle says.

# good post. excellent read.
checkout this link.
[link]#
(mark, 14 December 2007 21:13)

it is a proper false fact bias propaganda article

continuation of the Kosovo war fabrication by USA

'mob' as called by the author 'out of revenge destroyed Roma dwelling' what would be the revenge against Roma for?!

10 Albanians weren't killed by Serbs but by Kfor, just to mention
an apppailing propaganda by The NYT as usual.

Village Bey I looked at your so called excellent article. The very pro Albanian author actually made a point why Serbs should be allowed to secede from Bosnia and Kosovo.

"The Serbs effectively and irreversibly lost control of Kosovo in 1999. The majority of Kosovans want independence. And, above all, they deserve independence."

Loyd uses these three so called facts, actually opinions, to justify Albanians seceding Kosovo from Serbia. I guess he and the supporters of this article have no problem with Serbs seceding Republika Srpska from Bosnia and northern Kosovo from Kosovo.

Let's use Loyd's logic. First, Serbs have control of these areas. Secondly, the majority of the population, which is Serbian wants independence.

And lastly, they deserve it due to their many factual and historically documented accounts of suffering at the hands of the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. Just because Loyd skips over all the Serbian sufferings in the 1990's and before, doesn't mean they didn't happen. The only factual reality in this article is that Loyd is the revisionist.

On another note, I am saddened that the Serbian government is trying to shut down and intimidate B92, one of the few places where Albanians can have their voice heard in Serbian media. Milosevic's shadow still lives on!
(Florin, 14 December 2007 16:07)

the more things change...the more they stay the same.
for the most part, it's the same people that are in charge. all they've changed are their hats.

good post. excellent read.
checkout this link.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/world/20071209_KOSOVO_FEATURE/index.html#

Bravo Slovenia. Albania thanks you. And not only you. Also UK, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Bulgaria, Hungary, Checz Republic, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lituania, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Monaco, Liechtenstein.
Albania also cheers our good friends, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonia. Albania says: "ok friends, we understand you and we know why you can't be on the first line ", to Spain. And Albania says to Cyprus, Slovakia and Romania: "We won't forget".

10 Albanians weren't killed by Serbs but by Kfor, just to mention
an apppailing propaganda by The NYT as usual.
(rain, 15 December 2007 00:54)

Where you there to see this with your own eyes? If you notice this photojournalist has been in Kosova he would out-knowledge anyone from Serb Camp by 5x.

More than 10 Kosovars died..I don't think any Albanians died.

Nicholas
Typical of a revisionist to go back on the deal that they once sealed. I think that’s what the term means literally. Functionally you are comparing two very different settlements. Cake and Byrek as we call them in the Balkans.
One, which was agreed upon by all sides back in 1995 and only surfaced recently as a mechanism to raise the stakes and another one still to be made on the clear principles of undeniable bottom up legitimacy of a whole persecuted people.
In The Times’ article Loyd wasn’t talking about Bosnia as I am not talking about Presheva or western Macedonia for that matter but as you brought it up lets have a look at the link.
You talk about Serb suffering and surely, that’s to be counted for but you on purpose ignore or fail to mention the principal cause of that suffering. By the same logic, the suffering of the aggressor’s side should have priority over that of the victim. The only principle that I can think you are using here is, first come first served, more applicable to the queuing mechanism. In other words if you start causing mayhem and immeasurable suffering you might still turn up a winner after all as you’ll have the last word to what happens in the aftermath.
By the same wobbly logic, you additionally say that Srpska has now an undeniable desire and therefore legitimacy to join mother Serbia. Again you fail to see that Srpska is a product of murder, rape and genocide to the extend never seen in Europe since IIWW. What you call legitimacy smells still fresh of ethnic cleansing.
The proposed principle of granting Kosova independence, which derives from a clear nominative perspective, is proposed to be replaced by a doctrine where international community rewards the aggressors.
Hmmm. That is what Lloyd calls sickening form of revisionism but I guess I do not share his revulsion, as I am in contact with it everyday.

Wrong again village Bey,

Revisionism is when you take history and distort the truth. It's sickening for you to say that present suffering is something Serbs deserved because of 1999.

The evil you have been doing to the Serbs, you have been doing to them long before Milosevic came along and that's why the population of Serbs in Kosovo has sunk to 10%. Not to mention all the things Albanians did to Serbs in 1999 and continue to do to them in the present.

You are trying to make the Albanians seem like the victim in order to gain sympathy and justify harming Serbs. However, more and more people are catching on about this.

You are right on one account Srpska was made out of blood, but the blood belonged to the Serbs. If you don't believe me read up on Jasenovac and what happened to the Serbs during World War II. Not to mention how many Serbs in Bosnia died in 1990's

It will happen earlier, but thanks anyway!

Very brave from Slovenia, it took a lot of courage in choosing side on the Kosovo issue, since we've been living under the same roof for 80 years. I expect this will be followed by some brave act from Serbian government, which should show her courage being first to recognize Kosova indenpendance.

PLEASE NOTICE THE WORD PLAY:

“Slovenia has not prepared any special plans for Kosovo outside of the EU.“

The "outside of the EU" part is they key to the whole article. They are saying that they did not prepare anything without EU approval, but they are also impliedly saying that they did prepare something INSIDE the EU. It is what lawyers call a "negative pregnant" statement. Very slick way of saying that Slovenia will be one of the first to recognize Kosovo's independence. I see nothing in this statement that should make the Serbian camp happy.

On another note, I am saddened that the Serbian government is trying to shut down and intimidate B92, one of the few places where Albanians can have their voice heard in Serbian media. Milosevic's shadow still lives on!

An excellent article of Anthony Loyd on The Time titled “Kosovo deserves its independence”.
Justly he takes a long overdue pop at so-called revisionist who oppose independence with little regard for morality.
We familiar with this forum might recognise them under the impartial name of 'concerned European'.
A very rewarding read indeed.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3037002.ece

On another note, I am saddened that the Serbian government is trying to shut down and intimidate B92, one of the few places where Albanians can have their voice heard in Serbian media. Milosevic's shadow still lives on!
(Florin, 14 December 2007 16:07)

the more things change...the more they stay the same.
for the most part, it's the same people that are in charge. all they've changed are their hats.

good post. excellent read.
checkout this link.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/world/20071209_KOSOVO_FEATURE/index.html#

Bravo Slovenia. Albania thanks you. And not only you. Also UK, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Bulgaria, Hungary, Checz Republic, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lituania, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Monaco, Liechtenstein.
Albania also cheers our good friends, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Macedonia. Albania says: "ok friends, we understand you and we know why you can't be on the first line ", to Spain. And Albania says to Cyprus, Slovakia and Romania: "We won't forget".

10 Albanians weren't killed by Serbs but by Kfor, just to mention
an apppailing propaganda by The NYT as usual.
(rain, 15 December 2007 00:54)

Where you there to see this with your own eyes? If you notice this photojournalist has been in Kosova he would out-knowledge anyone from Serb Camp by 5x.

More than 10 Kosovars died..I don't think any Albanians died.

Nicholas
Typical of a revisionist to go back on the deal that they once sealed. I think that’s what the term means literally. Functionally you are comparing two very different settlements. Cake and Byrek as we call them in the Balkans.
One, which was agreed upon by all sides back in 1995 and only surfaced recently as a mechanism to raise the stakes and another one still to be made on the clear principles of undeniable bottom up legitimacy of a whole persecuted people.
In The Times’ article Loyd wasn’t talking about Bosnia as I am not talking about Presheva or western Macedonia for that matter but as you brought it up lets have a look at the link.
You talk about Serb suffering and surely, that’s to be counted for but you on purpose ignore or fail to mention the principal cause of that suffering. By the same logic, the suffering of the aggressor’s side should have priority over that of the victim. The only principle that I can think you are using here is, first come first served, more applicable to the queuing mechanism. In other words if you start causing mayhem and immeasurable suffering you might still turn up a winner after all as you’ll have the last word to what happens in the aftermath.
By the same wobbly logic, you additionally say that Srpska has now an undeniable desire and therefore legitimacy to join mother Serbia. Again you fail to see that Srpska is a product of murder, rape and genocide to the extend never seen in Europe since IIWW. What you call legitimacy smells still fresh of ethnic cleansing.
The proposed principle of granting Kosova independence, which derives from a clear nominative perspective, is proposed to be replaced by a doctrine where international community rewards the aggressors.
Hmmm. That is what Lloyd calls sickening form of revisionism but I guess I do not share his revulsion, as I am in contact with it everyday.

Seems to me that the media in various EU countries and the US are publishing a lot of wishful thinking at the moment, partly because they would like it to be so, and partly to try and pacify while they decide what to do.

"It adds that the EU and Europeans have to show “who is boss in their own backyard”"

Best way to do this is to not rush the issue; hold further talks without the carrot dangling in the wings; work towards a genuine compromise; and not be swayed by inferred threats of violence.

The matters of forcing a nation to lose 15% of its territory, and of trashing the legal framework which keeps us all safe, are not minor issues. They affect all of us in Europe and beyond.

This is the major responsibility at stake for the EU, and I am glad to see that some leaders still have some logic and responsibility about them.

On another thread some friendly soul asked why someone from 'outside' (ie. not Serbian) would be concerned about this issue. That is extremely short-sighted - this is an issue for the whole of Europe, not just one province which unfortunately finds itself in the middle.

MR Cut it will happen When Hashim Thaci says it will unless he say it is going to happen i won't believe anything anyone esle says.

I don't believe Mr. Janša.

The attached link gives another perspective..."From the very beginning, Germany and Europe have been determined to conquer the Balkans, be it by force or in a web of diplomatic maneuvers.
In 2003, EU Commission President Romano Prodi promised that all Balkan countries—if they danced to the EU’s tune of course—could “become members of the EU one day.” While they might not necessarily become members on the same day, and each would have to follow its own course, he said, nonetheless, “in the long run, [the] Balkans belong strictly to the EU” (EUobserver, Jan. 10, 2003).

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=4556.2818.0.0

TO FLORIN -

On another note, I am saddened that the Serbian government is trying to shut down and intimidate B92, one of the few places where Albanians can have their voice heard in Serbian media. Milosevic's shadow still lives on!
(Florin, 14 December 2007 16:07)

B92 is for the world to voice their opinions & not just the albanians. To isolate your specific heritage is being small minded.

To the article at hand, IF KosovO becomes independent & IF KosovO becomes part of the EU, tra-la-la.

According to documented media, Croatia has done everything it was supposed to do as part of their obligation to the ICTY & they're still not even on the radar of becoming part of the EU due to their conflicts with Slovenija as well as many other concerns.

KosovO becoming independant will not ensure any EU entry soley based on their inability to act in a humane way & deal with the monetary responsibility as the invaders have been too reliant on Serbia for too long.

This just isn't going to happen - particularly since "Janša said that “Slovenia has not prepared any special plans for Kosovo outside of the EU.“

# good post. excellent read.
checkout this link.
[link]#
(mark, 14 December 2007 21:13)

it is a proper false fact bias propaganda article

continuation of the Kosovo war fabrication by USA

'mob' as called by the author 'out of revenge destroyed Roma dwelling' what would be the revenge against Roma for?!

10 Albanians weren't killed by Serbs but by Kfor, just to mention
an apppailing propaganda by The NYT as usual.

Village Bey I looked at your so called excellent article. The very pro Albanian author actually made a point why Serbs should be allowed to secede from Bosnia and Kosovo.

"The Serbs effectively and irreversibly lost control of Kosovo in 1999. The majority of Kosovans want independence. And, above all, they deserve independence."

Loyd uses these three so called facts, actually opinions, to justify Albanians seceding Kosovo from Serbia. I guess he and the supporters of this article have no problem with Serbs seceding Republika Srpska from Bosnia and northern Kosovo from Kosovo.

Let's use Loyd's logic. First, Serbs have control of these areas. Secondly, the majority of the population, which is Serbian wants independence.

And lastly, they deserve it due to their many factual and historically documented accounts of suffering at the hands of the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. Just because Loyd skips over all the Serbian sufferings in the 1990's and before, doesn't mean they didn't happen. The only factual reality in this article is that Loyd is the revisionist.

Wrong again village Bey,

Revisionism is when you take history and distort the truth. It's sickening for you to say that present suffering is something Serbs deserved because of 1999.

The evil you have been doing to the Serbs, you have been doing to them long before Milosevic came along and that's why the population of Serbs in Kosovo has sunk to 10%. Not to mention all the things Albanians did to Serbs in 1999 and continue to do to them in the present.

You are trying to make the Albanians seem like the victim in order to gain sympathy and justify harming Serbs. However, more and more people are catching on about this.

You are right on one account Srpska was made out of blood, but the blood belonged to the Serbs. If you don't believe me read up on Jasenovac and what happened to the Serbs during World War II. Not to mention how many Serbs in Bosnia died in 1990's