Nesha and Jovan well said I agree 100%.
What Germany could not take from Serbs in two world wars they try to with this new method of European Union.
Don't forget the EU started as an economic agreement between Germany and France
and Serbia has been a strong counter weight to German expansion in the Balkans.
Kosovo will not be taken legally and it will never be anything more than occupied Serbian land.
American eagle you write with typical American arrogance when trying to explain why America does what it does around the world.To David's question.
As with anything there are some complex geostrategic reasons for America's interest in Kosovo.I will list a few things and you can google in depth some of them.
Americas motive for Kosovo
1.Eastward NATO expansion
2.Encircling of Russia
3.AMBO pipeline .Will produce 750,000 barrels of oil per day That is the low end number (you think Americans built Bondsteel just to leave the area in a few years? Bondsteel is there to protect the pipeline which is starting work soon.They new Serbs would not be so willing to allow Americans this action since Americans knew of Serbian-Russian ties no matter how thin those ties were/are.
3.Americans erroneously think that giving Kosovo to muslims will show muslims that they are doing something to help the cause and they are friends not enemies.It will improve things in Iraq and other muslims lands the US wants to dominate (Don't believe my word read up).
4.Caspian oil
The Americans are working on this with the Germans since Germany has always tried to control this region.See Kosovo is not and American issue or European it was an internal Serbian issue.America is not there because of any noble reasons like humanity,democracy,or freedom they are there because why any empire was there before them.To get a better understanding of America's true motives please read Mr. Zbignew Brazinski's The Grand Chessborad.
Kosovo, Nato Candidate, Eu Candidate. If and when Kosovo becomes independent it will be a long time before it becomes a EU member. First you have to establish an army capable to meeting NATO standards, but that won't happen because Kosovo is not allowed to have an Military Force only a small police unit according to the Art Plan; 2 you must establish a economy capable of support the people. Until you have that you won't be seeing NATO OR the EU unless meet there terms. Serbia stands a better chance of getting there than Kosovo. Reason i say this is once EU comes to Kosovo there will be most of the young people heading for the west to make big money and Kosovo will lose most of it's skilled people. If EU is running things there will be no more hiring someone without skills just because he is a family member and kick the skilled person to the side.
EU offer is such a disappointment, and that really shows what EU is becoming - a selfish colonial mechanism, the power play of the big vultures. Sarkozy's ''sincere'' message to Serbia - give Kosovo away, respect human rights, fulfill the Hague obligations, and no problem, you will easily be in the family!? One can now only laugh at the sarcastic comments that Serbia is linking itself to Russia.
As for the comment on Mladic and Karadzic, I want to say one thing. Serbia has paid like no other country in history for the events in the nineties, it has been ruthlessly devastated by NATO, its citizens chased out from their homes from ex Yugoslavia, the country was especially sanctioned by those who initiated global tragedies and human rights violations in the 20th Century, ie. the US and Germany. And now its territory is unscrupulously taken away. So what do you guys want more from Serbia, abnd when is this scavenging going to stop. I therefore say NO to this EU that is ripping the country apart and continuing to condition it indefinitely.
reading those comments here...one can get only a little idea of how little most of the readers/writers here actually know about the recent development in regard to the EU.
in the future there won´t be any VETO-possibilities...
haven´t you read the newspapers or at least watched tv???
so, childish comments like those of doni... ( Serbs will only enter the EU to take revenge ) or others who say enter the EU and than veto the attempt of Kosovo joining it... those comments are simply naive.
Kosovo won´t enter the EU without Serbia. remember, there´s UNSC 1244!
and the EU will rather go to hell than to accept a toy-republic without international legally accepted recognition! the EU would have to act against international law... that simply won´t happen! don´t even dream of it, it´s senseless.
so, all in all, that´s the reason why some westerners are trying to recommend Serbia "and Kosovo" to join at the same time... they only do not say, ( because it´s a part of Serbia ) why...
so, the K-albanians will have the opportunity to feel as if they have won...and Serbia will still be the legal sovereign over that territory.
Your article and its title is misleading. I just read on a US site that "EU leaders are not offering Serbia a fast-track to membership and again cautioned Belgrade that its future entry hinges on full cooperation in handing over war crime suspects for trial".
this is a very elegant option, one where the eu stands for, finally something else then the market. now serbia has to decide what it wants; progress, or standstill, possible civil war, and some happy nationalists.
If I were in the position, the only way I would seriously consider this is that Serbia enter the EU the day K-Albanians get their independence. Also a big obese check. To start us off right in the EU. The EU is just short of begging Serbia to let Kosovo have it's indep. Serbia should take advantage of the situation & see how much the EU is willing to give for Kosovo's independence. Damn, the power of 1244 & international law = priceless. Milk the EU cow dry Serbia!
(Delije, 14 December 2007 19:09)
i see the mighty dollar has managed to sway a few opinions already :)
turn in your war criminals and get in line like the rest of eastern europe. you're free to negotiate and speed up the process but you're not getting in the day kosove gets her independence. that's just not going to happen. however, you may be able to join the russian federation that day. :)
Dardania (Kosova) is on the clear, right path, based on its geographic location and the will of its people: Independence - Souvereignity -NATO member - EU candidate - EU member.
Serbia's path so far: War + Russia or Peace + EU - War + Russia or Peace + EU? Left or Right? European or Asian? NATO in - NATO out. US + EU = Enemy or what? Why are they saying that Serbia is not a democratic country, oh why? Who is that guy with the black suit? Is that Kostunica holding an AK-47?
Guys, with this kind of confusion, no one is or will be willing to stay with you, ever again.
If I were in the position, the only way I would seriously consider this is that Serbia enter the EU the day K-Albanians get their independence. Also a big obese check. To start us off right in the EU. The EU is just short of begging Serbia to let Kosovo have it's indep. Serbia should take advantage of the situation & see how much the EU is willing to give for Kosovo's independence. Damn, the power of 1244 & international law = priceless. Milk the EU cow dry Serbia!
Kosovo isn't an important issue that we have to be in. The US is looking for an exit from Kosovo and independence is a way to get us out of Kosovo. Once Kosovo is independent, we can free up the troops that are in Kosovo for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Secretary Gates already made known his displeasure that NATO countries aren't shouldering the burden in Afghanistan and wants to pull from Kosovo to use in Afghanistan. Kosovo is Europe's problem, but they weren't able to stop the bloodshed or solve the problem, so the US had to step in. Now, we need resolution and letting the Albanians declare independence will free us of the Balkans. The EU has matured since the beginning of the Bosnia War, when they were unable to muster a consensus to stop it, and should bear the responsibility of helping Kosovo. It's their backyard.
Teni, you might call Serbia landlocked, but the economic view is a strategic trading route. Who wants to drive their good from Western or Central Europe around Serbia instead of through it, other than Albanians? Economically, it is illogical to do so.
Either way, it looks like Serbia will lose Kosovo but gain much more from this while Kosovo will have a short term victory. I would hope that eventually both sides mature so that this cycle stops.
I would first get the UK ,ALL the EU and U.S to apologise for their illegal bombing of Belgrade and killing the innocent Serb people.Then say NO DEAL ,they know full well they are in the wrong according to international law.
Right. So why would anyone want to be in a union where the major Western powers bring all decisions using the union as a cover for their open and secret agendas? Do they really think that a 'union' based on bribes, threats and economic blackmail will work in the long run? I doubt so. Serbia has all the rights legal and moral to protect her interests. Anyone who thinks that they can use all those methods to blackmail Serbia or anyone else into something is making a huge mistake. The EU major powers are not Serbia's friends. And you do not join 'unions' with countries that used unfriendly and illegal methods to damage your country. This is a simple truth that is very difficult to dismiss. They can try all they want to put blame on Serbia but this is a project by scientists in the USA. Have a look about what they think what's really going on in the world, where we are at the moment and who and what is to blame for it. Take a look. There are no Serbs mentioned in there. Not once. The Western powers destroyed lives of millions of people throughout the former Yugoslavia with their deadly Balkan dance. They think they can spin all their crimes away with "collateral damage" and similar spinning attempts etc...Yeah right:
Abaracadabra!!! and in a puff of smoke, serbia enters the eu and so does kosovo, (as it is still under serbias national boundries), introduce the european system of law and ipso facto problem solved!!! and for my next trick i will make pres. bush disappear!!!
Kosovo is and always will be part of Serbia, let the Albanians just keep thinking they will might have a chance to steal Kosovo with the USA's help,,,,,keep dreaming.
It would be stupid or at the very least naive to suggest that the integration of Serbia in the EU is not important, because it is. It is important to the EU and to all our region. That however does not mean that the EU will try to get Serbia to join at all costs. After all it is Serbia that has more to gain from accession than the EU. The EU can go on fine without Serbia just as it has done thus far, but an isolated, EU & land locked Serbia that falls in the Russian orbit would have very little to gain from such an eventuality.Look at Belarus and you get the idea.
So for all the political, nationalist rhetoric at the moment the fact that a majority of Serbs want to move West and not East even in the face of the prevailing Western position on Kosova, i.e. independence, shows that the Serb government will eventually be forced to face the tune, accept good neighborly relations with Kosova and join the EU. Otherwise the future of Serbia will for a very long time be held hostage to the loss of Kosova which it will not be able to win back in any case. The Russian alternative, for all the support Russia is offering now, is not very realistic nor is it something to wish for. Russia is only the 17th investor in Serbia which shows how much Serbia has to lose from deteriorating relations with the West and more importantly Russia is moving towards an ever less democratic political system. So the question is really simple: Is the loss of Kosova worth the loss of your democracy and prosperity too?
Massimo states the obvious. Yes, the EU wants to keep the ultra-nationalists out of power. Would you want another Mussolini in power in Italy? I'm sure the EU would use their influence to keep that from happening. Postponing independence is the reason behind this move. The world needs a leader who can help Serbia through this time without isolating Serbia from the rest of the world. But Kosovo should take note that Serbia seems to be on a fast track to EU membership. Kosovo's membership will be decades off, but Serbia can tank that once Serbia is a member of the EU, just like Cyprus holds off Turkey and Greece has threatened to do with Macedonia. This unilateral declaration is a slap in the face of the Serbians that will come back to haunt Kosovo years down the road. Russia will likely prevent Kosovo from joining the UN while Serbia would keep Kosovo out of the EU. WTO membership also requires unanimity. I read where one Kosovar said that Serbs and Albanians have no future together during the recent demonstrations in Pristina. I don't think she knew how true that could be.
Good luck with your independence from Serbia, but don't expect much more than luck with the animosity the Albanians are fostering in Kosovo.
EU hypcrisy again. It is against the rule of law for Kosovo to unilaterally become independence. Second, bribing a nation is also against the law.
I'd also like to know what makes them to sure they can give us "earlier membership." The current EU treaty blocks membership at 27 and the one replacing it will likely not be implemented for at least 1 or 2 years when it is ratified by all states -- and ratification is an issue. How about instwead of making some vague promise they set out a clear date otherwise their bribes are lies.
I have to definitely agree with Massimo's comment. But I have been wondering since the beginning of all of this. Why is Kosovo so important to America and a majority of the EU. I know Camp Bondsteel WAS the largest from scratch military base in the world since Vietnam. So is it a military standpoint that makes Kosovo a strategic location? These are not rhetorical questions, I am genuinely curious. My Father is a Police Officer in the United States and I know that they would not offer him $100,000.00 CASH to go and baby sit a group of people that honestly most didn't really have any concern for until some of the propaganda used to distinguish a good guy and a bad guy (Serbs)up until that point it was pretty much known to anyone that new the region there were some pretty horrific happenings on both sides. If anyone has any suggestions as to why Albanians are more important than so many other Nations that have it far worse please feel free to give me your opinion. At least in Iraq we had SEVERAL excuses for going, (whether any of them were legit or not).
First time that I agree with Serbian posters in this site. Serbia should not join EU, in fact they should not be offered such speedy entry. Serbia has to surrender worlds famous criminals , Mladic and Karadzic, return Albanians to Medvedja and respect the rights of other minorities. EU is not the place for countries that shelter war criminals and oppress human rights.
People of Serbia would like to be in EU( see the polls yesterday) contrary to what Serbia politicians say.
It seams that fictional name dardania will only be in Rowhlings books.And Europians are changing the tune again-oh-how they care about the good of Serbia.
They should care a lot more in the coming months,since they won`t have many bargaining chips on a table.
IF one thought little Cyprus will derail strategic EU policy then you need to wake up. Britain, Italy, France, Germany will never become hostages of Cyprus destructive bias policies.
I don't think the question is whether Kosovo will get independence, but rather what Serbia's (and others) reaction to that will be. Europe is trying to solve the potentially devastating side-effects independence could have on not only the region, but on Europe's 'united' image. Hopefully all sides will come to a consensus and the a brighter future will await the people.
If i was Serbia i would go for the EU unless there are strings attach then forget it. Leave Kosovo in the Dark and move on to the EU. If you are a member and Kosovo wants to join then you just VETO.
This is amusing! Now they urge Serbia to join EU as Serbia and its citizens are not the one that should be asked at first place. This arogant EU just presumed that Serbs would be very happy to join them as son as possible. Serbia was very clear when saying that it won't make any similar deal and yet EU still continues with its offers. Well, in that case the Serbian people should be asked in referendum are they saying YES to EU and first class thieves or NO. I am sure EU would be surprised after the referendum that would result 70% in favour of NO.
Unless Serbia decides for itself to let Kosovo go, any imposed decision will be poison attitudes and relationships for years ahead.
The EU should listen more closely to what is being said by Serbia.
Europe shows its weakness by trying to be strong. Europe is not fully of one mind, but it is creating pressure within itself to make it appear that way.
Imposing a solution on Kosovo is as much based on the fact that Europe has not been able to conduct integrated foreign policy in the past.
I would be more impressed by an integrated Europe if they would all pull their weight in settling Afgahnistan and Iraq instead of always taking the easy jobs or backing off altogether. Economically the EU may be big, but in terms of action, it is a military mouse.
Trying to play the 'big-boy' is going to be linked to the attitude to the new 'constitution' signed in Lisbon yesterday. Kosovo is the first big opportunity. However, Serbia should stand firm as it has a case that Europe has to answer.
No buy-off will actually happen - there will always be the same set of conditions. On the other hand, whatever happens, they will still want Serbia to become a member in the longer term.
Why should Serbia become a
member of club which is
destined to collapse in the
near future or become totally irrelevant. There is so much anger amongst the EU populations against people
from the new EU countries.
You only have to look at the
daily press cuts in the old
EU counties.Serbia should stay independent and alligned
to Russia and shoulf follow
its own path of development.
It also seems that B92 made a mistake in the translation of Rehn's statement. He did not say spring, but late winter or early spring which if you look at the dates is very close to the second round of Serbia's elections.
Dardania (Kosova) will be very soon de jure independent. It has been de facto independent since almost 10 years and has been functioning as a separate state since early 1990-s under President Rugova (RIP) Movement. This independence will not come as a surprise to anyone. We know it, you know it, they know it. That simple!
It seems that EU is infavour of independence.
EU is only imploring Pristina to not declare independence until the end of Serbian elections, just to "save" Serbia from a ultra-nationalist government.
Why should Serbia become a
member of club which is
destined to collapse in the
near future or become totally irrelevant. There is so much anger amongst the EU populations against people
from the new EU countries.
You only have to look at the
daily press cuts in the old
EU counties.Serbia should stay independent and alligned
to Russia and shoulf follow
its own path of development.
It seems that EU is infavour of independence.
EU is only imploring Pristina to not declare independence until the end of Serbian elections, just to "save" Serbia from a ultra-nationalist government.
Unless Serbia decides for itself to let Kosovo go, any imposed decision will be poison attitudes and relationships for years ahead.
The EU should listen more closely to what is being said by Serbia.
Europe shows its weakness by trying to be strong. Europe is not fully of one mind, but it is creating pressure within itself to make it appear that way.
Imposing a solution on Kosovo is as much based on the fact that Europe has not been able to conduct integrated foreign policy in the past.
I would be more impressed by an integrated Europe if they would all pull their weight in settling Afgahnistan and Iraq instead of always taking the easy jobs or backing off altogether. Economically the EU may be big, but in terms of action, it is a military mouse.
Trying to play the 'big-boy' is going to be linked to the attitude to the new 'constitution' signed in Lisbon yesterday. Kosovo is the first big opportunity. However, Serbia should stand firm as it has a case that Europe has to answer.
No buy-off will actually happen - there will always be the same set of conditions. On the other hand, whatever happens, they will still want Serbia to become a member in the longer term.
This is amusing! Now they urge Serbia to join EU as Serbia and its citizens are not the one that should be asked at first place. This arogant EU just presumed that Serbs would be very happy to join them as son as possible. Serbia was very clear when saying that it won't make any similar deal and yet EU still continues with its offers. Well, in that case the Serbian people should be asked in referendum are they saying YES to EU and first class thieves or NO. I am sure EU would be surprised after the referendum that would result 70% in favour of NO.
Dardania (Kosova) will be very soon de jure independent. It has been de facto independent since almost 10 years and has been functioning as a separate state since early 1990-s under President Rugova (RIP) Movement. This independence will not come as a surprise to anyone. We know it, you know it, they know it. That simple!
EU hypcrisy again. It is against the rule of law for Kosovo to unilaterally become independence. Second, bribing a nation is also against the law.
I'd also like to know what makes them to sure they can give us "earlier membership." The current EU treaty blocks membership at 27 and the one replacing it will likely not be implemented for at least 1 or 2 years when it is ratified by all states -- and ratification is an issue. How about instwead of making some vague promise they set out a clear date otherwise their bribes are lies.
Kosovo is and always will be part of Serbia, let the Albanians just keep thinking they will might have a chance to steal Kosovo with the USA's help,,,,,keep dreaming.
It seams that fictional name dardania will only be in Rowhlings books.And Europians are changing the tune again-oh-how they care about the good of Serbia.
They should care a lot more in the coming months,since they won`t have many bargaining chips on a table.
I would first get the UK ,ALL the EU and U.S to apologise for their illegal bombing of Belgrade and killing the innocent Serb people.Then say NO DEAL ,they know full well they are in the wrong according to international law.
Right. So why would anyone want to be in a union where the major Western powers bring all decisions using the union as a cover for their open and secret agendas? Do they really think that a 'union' based on bribes, threats and economic blackmail will work in the long run? I doubt so. Serbia has all the rights legal and moral to protect her interests. Anyone who thinks that they can use all those methods to blackmail Serbia or anyone else into something is making a huge mistake. The EU major powers are not Serbia's friends. And you do not join 'unions' with countries that used unfriendly and illegal methods to damage your country. This is a simple truth that is very difficult to dismiss. They can try all they want to put blame on Serbia but this is a project by scientists in the USA. Have a look about what they think what's really going on in the world, where we are at the moment and who and what is to blame for it. Take a look. There are no Serbs mentioned in there. Not once. The Western powers destroyed lives of millions of people throughout the former Yugoslavia with their deadly Balkan dance. They think they can spin all their crimes away with "collateral damage" and similar spinning attempts etc...Yeah right:
EU offer is such a disappointment, and that really shows what EU is becoming - a selfish colonial mechanism, the power play of the big vultures. Sarkozy's ''sincere'' message to Serbia - give Kosovo away, respect human rights, fulfill the Hague obligations, and no problem, you will easily be in the family!? One can now only laugh at the sarcastic comments that Serbia is linking itself to Russia.
As for the comment on Mladic and Karadzic, I want to say one thing. Serbia has paid like no other country in history for the events in the nineties, it has been ruthlessly devastated by NATO, its citizens chased out from their homes from ex Yugoslavia, the country was especially sanctioned by those who initiated global tragedies and human rights violations in the 20th Century, ie. the US and Germany. And now its territory is unscrupulously taken away. So what do you guys want more from Serbia, abnd when is this scavenging going to stop. I therefore say NO to this EU that is ripping the country apart and continuing to condition it indefinitely.
reading those comments here...one can get only a little idea of how little most of the readers/writers here actually know about the recent development in regard to the EU.
in the future there won´t be any VETO-possibilities...
haven´t you read the newspapers or at least watched tv???
so, childish comments like those of doni... ( Serbs will only enter the EU to take revenge ) or others who say enter the EU and than veto the attempt of Kosovo joining it... those comments are simply naive.
Kosovo won´t enter the EU without Serbia. remember, there´s UNSC 1244!
and the EU will rather go to hell than to accept a toy-republic without international legally accepted recognition! the EU would have to act against international law... that simply won´t happen! don´t even dream of it, it´s senseless.
so, all in all, that´s the reason why some westerners are trying to recommend Serbia "and Kosovo" to join at the same time... they only do not say, ( because it´s a part of Serbia ) why...
so, the K-albanians will have the opportunity to feel as if they have won...and Serbia will still be the legal sovereign over that territory.
Kosovo, Nato Candidate, Eu Candidate. If and when Kosovo becomes independent it will be a long time before it becomes a EU member. First you have to establish an army capable to meeting NATO standards, but that won't happen because Kosovo is not allowed to have an Military Force only a small police unit according to the Art Plan; 2 you must establish a economy capable of support the people. Until you have that you won't be seeing NATO OR the EU unless meet there terms. Serbia stands a better chance of getting there than Kosovo. Reason i say this is once EU comes to Kosovo there will be most of the young people heading for the west to make big money and Kosovo will lose most of it's skilled people. If EU is running things there will be no more hiring someone without skills just because he is a family member and kick the skilled person to the side.
It also seems that B92 made a mistake in the translation of Rehn's statement. He did not say spring, but late winter or early spring which if you look at the dates is very close to the second round of Serbia's elections.
I have to definitely agree with Massimo's comment. But I have been wondering since the beginning of all of this. Why is Kosovo so important to America and a majority of the EU. I know Camp Bondsteel WAS the largest from scratch military base in the world since Vietnam. So is it a military standpoint that makes Kosovo a strategic location? These are not rhetorical questions, I am genuinely curious. My Father is a Police Officer in the United States and I know that they would not offer him $100,000.00 CASH to go and baby sit a group of people that honestly most didn't really have any concern for until some of the propaganda used to distinguish a good guy and a bad guy (Serbs)up until that point it was pretty much known to anyone that new the region there were some pretty horrific happenings on both sides. If anyone has any suggestions as to why Albanians are more important than so many other Nations that have it far worse please feel free to give me your opinion. At least in Iraq we had SEVERAL excuses for going, (whether any of them were legit or not).
Abaracadabra!!! and in a puff of smoke, serbia enters the eu and so does kosovo, (as it is still under serbias national boundries), introduce the european system of law and ipso facto problem solved!!! and for my next trick i will make pres. bush disappear!!!
If I were in the position, the only way I would seriously consider this is that Serbia enter the EU the day K-Albanians get their independence. Also a big obese check. To start us off right in the EU. The EU is just short of begging Serbia to let Kosovo have it's indep. Serbia should take advantage of the situation & see how much the EU is willing to give for Kosovo's independence. Damn, the power of 1244 & international law = priceless. Milk the EU cow dry Serbia!
IF one thought little Cyprus will derail strategic EU policy then you need to wake up. Britain, Italy, France, Germany will never become hostages of Cyprus destructive bias policies.
Nesha and Jovan well said I agree 100%.
What Germany could not take from Serbs in two world wars they try to with this new method of European Union.
Don't forget the EU started as an economic agreement between Germany and France
and Serbia has been a strong counter weight to German expansion in the Balkans.
Kosovo will not be taken legally and it will never be anything more than occupied Serbian land.
American eagle you write with typical American arrogance when trying to explain why America does what it does around the world.To David's question.
As with anything there are some complex geostrategic reasons for America's interest in Kosovo.I will list a few things and you can google in depth some of them.
Americas motive for Kosovo
1.Eastward NATO expansion
2.Encircling of Russia
3.AMBO pipeline .Will produce 750,000 barrels of oil per day That is the low end number (you think Americans built Bondsteel just to leave the area in a few years? Bondsteel is there to protect the pipeline which is starting work soon.They new Serbs would not be so willing to allow Americans this action since Americans knew of Serbian-Russian ties no matter how thin those ties were/are.
3.Americans erroneously think that giving Kosovo to muslims will show muslims that they are doing something to help the cause and they are friends not enemies.It will improve things in Iraq and other muslims lands the US wants to dominate (Don't believe my word read up).
4.Caspian oil
The Americans are working on this with the Germans since Germany has always tried to control this region.See Kosovo is not and American issue or European it was an internal Serbian issue.America is not there because of any noble reasons like humanity,democracy,or freedom they are there because why any empire was there before them.To get a better understanding of America's true motives please read Mr. Zbignew Brazinski's The Grand Chessborad.
Massimo states the obvious. Yes, the EU wants to keep the ultra-nationalists out of power. Would you want another Mussolini in power in Italy? I'm sure the EU would use their influence to keep that from happening. Postponing independence is the reason behind this move. The world needs a leader who can help Serbia through this time without isolating Serbia from the rest of the world. But Kosovo should take note that Serbia seems to be on a fast track to EU membership. Kosovo's membership will be decades off, but Serbia can tank that once Serbia is a member of the EU, just like Cyprus holds off Turkey and Greece has threatened to do with Macedonia. This unilateral declaration is a slap in the face of the Serbians that will come back to haunt Kosovo years down the road. Russia will likely prevent Kosovo from joining the UN while Serbia would keep Kosovo out of the EU. WTO membership also requires unanimity. I read where one Kosovar said that Serbs and Albanians have no future together during the recent demonstrations in Pristina. I don't think she knew how true that could be.
Good luck with your independence from Serbia, but don't expect much more than luck with the animosity the Albanians are fostering in Kosovo.
It would be stupid or at the very least naive to suggest that the integration of Serbia in the EU is not important, because it is. It is important to the EU and to all our region. That however does not mean that the EU will try to get Serbia to join at all costs. After all it is Serbia that has more to gain from accession than the EU. The EU can go on fine without Serbia just as it has done thus far, but an isolated, EU & land locked Serbia that falls in the Russian orbit would have very little to gain from such an eventuality.Look at Belarus and you get the idea.
So for all the political, nationalist rhetoric at the moment the fact that a majority of Serbs want to move West and not East even in the face of the prevailing Western position on Kosova, i.e. independence, shows that the Serb government will eventually be forced to face the tune, accept good neighborly relations with Kosova and join the EU. Otherwise the future of Serbia will for a very long time be held hostage to the loss of Kosova which it will not be able to win back in any case. The Russian alternative, for all the support Russia is offering now, is not very realistic nor is it something to wish for. Russia is only the 17th investor in Serbia which shows how much Serbia has to lose from deteriorating relations with the West and more importantly Russia is moving towards an ever less democratic political system. So the question is really simple: Is the loss of Kosova worth the loss of your democracy and prosperity too?
First time that I agree with Serbian posters in this site. Serbia should not join EU, in fact they should not be offered such speedy entry. Serbia has to surrender worlds famous criminals , Mladic and Karadzic, return Albanians to Medvedja and respect the rights of other minorities. EU is not the place for countries that shelter war criminals and oppress human rights.
People of Serbia would like to be in EU( see the polls yesterday) contrary to what Serbia politicians say.
Dardania (Kosova) is on the clear, right path, based on its geographic location and the will of its people: Independence - Souvereignity -NATO member - EU candidate - EU member.
Serbia's path so far: War + Russia or Peace + EU - War + Russia or Peace + EU? Left or Right? European or Asian? NATO in - NATO out. US + EU = Enemy or what? Why are they saying that Serbia is not a democratic country, oh why? Who is that guy with the black suit? Is that Kostunica holding an AK-47?
Guys, with this kind of confusion, no one is or will be willing to stay with you, ever again.
If i was Serbia i would go for the EU unless there are strings attach then forget it. Leave Kosovo in the Dark and move on to the EU. If you are a member and Kosovo wants to join then you just VETO.
Kosovo isn't an important issue that we have to be in. The US is looking for an exit from Kosovo and independence is a way to get us out of Kosovo. Once Kosovo is independent, we can free up the troops that are in Kosovo for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Secretary Gates already made known his displeasure that NATO countries aren't shouldering the burden in Afghanistan and wants to pull from Kosovo to use in Afghanistan. Kosovo is Europe's problem, but they weren't able to stop the bloodshed or solve the problem, so the US had to step in. Now, we need resolution and letting the Albanians declare independence will free us of the Balkans. The EU has matured since the beginning of the Bosnia War, when they were unable to muster a consensus to stop it, and should bear the responsibility of helping Kosovo. It's their backyard.
Teni, you might call Serbia landlocked, but the economic view is a strategic trading route. Who wants to drive their good from Western or Central Europe around Serbia instead of through it, other than Albanians? Economically, it is illogical to do so.
Either way, it looks like Serbia will lose Kosovo but gain much more from this while Kosovo will have a short term victory. I would hope that eventually both sides mature so that this cycle stops.
If I were in the position, the only way I would seriously consider this is that Serbia enter the EU the day K-Albanians get their independence. Also a big obese check. To start us off right in the EU. The EU is just short of begging Serbia to let Kosovo have it's indep. Serbia should take advantage of the situation & see how much the EU is willing to give for Kosovo's independence. Damn, the power of 1244 & international law = priceless. Milk the EU cow dry Serbia!
(Delije, 14 December 2007 19:09)
i see the mighty dollar has managed to sway a few opinions already :)
turn in your war criminals and get in line like the rest of eastern europe. you're free to negotiate and speed up the process but you're not getting in the day kosove gets her independence. that's just not going to happen. however, you may be able to join the russian federation that day. :)
I don't think the question is whether Kosovo will get independence, but rather what Serbia's (and others) reaction to that will be. Europe is trying to solve the potentially devastating side-effects independence could have on not only the region, but on Europe's 'united' image. Hopefully all sides will come to a consensus and the a brighter future will await the people.
this is a very elegant option, one where the eu stands for, finally something else then the market. now serbia has to decide what it wants; progress, or standstill, possible civil war, and some happy nationalists.
Your article and its title is misleading. I just read on a US site that "EU leaders are not offering Serbia a fast-track to membership and again cautioned Belgrade that its future entry hinges on full cooperation in handing over war crime suspects for trial".
Dardania (Kosova) will be very soon de jure independent. It has been de facto independent since almost 10 years and has been functioning as a separate state since early 1990-s under President Rugova (RIP) Movement. This independence will not come as a surprise to anyone. We know it, you know it, they know it. That simple!
IF one thought little Cyprus will derail strategic EU policy then you need to wake up. Britain, Italy, France, Germany will never become hostages of Cyprus destructive bias policies.
First time that I agree with Serbian posters in this site. Serbia should not join EU, in fact they should not be offered such speedy entry. Serbia has to surrender worlds famous criminals , Mladic and Karadzic, return Albanians to Medvedja and respect the rights of other minorities. EU is not the place for countries that shelter war criminals and oppress human rights.
People of Serbia would like to be in EU( see the polls yesterday) contrary to what Serbia politicians say.
It seems that EU is infavour of independence.
EU is only imploring Pristina to not declare independence until the end of Serbian elections, just to "save" Serbia from a ultra-nationalist government.
It also seems that B92 made a mistake in the translation of Rehn's statement. He did not say spring, but late winter or early spring which if you look at the dates is very close to the second round of Serbia's elections.
Dardania (Kosova) is on the clear, right path, based on its geographic location and the will of its people: Independence - Souvereignity -NATO member - EU candidate - EU member.
Serbia's path so far: War + Russia or Peace + EU - War + Russia or Peace + EU? Left or Right? European or Asian? NATO in - NATO out. US + EU = Enemy or what? Why are they saying that Serbia is not a democratic country, oh why? Who is that guy with the black suit? Is that Kostunica holding an AK-47?
Guys, with this kind of confusion, no one is or will be willing to stay with you, ever again.
If I were in the position, the only way I would seriously consider this is that Serbia enter the EU the day K-Albanians get their independence. Also a big obese check. To start us off right in the EU. The EU is just short of begging Serbia to let Kosovo have it's indep. Serbia should take advantage of the situation & see how much the EU is willing to give for Kosovo's independence. Damn, the power of 1244 & international law = priceless. Milk the EU cow dry Serbia!
(Delije, 14 December 2007 19:09)
i see the mighty dollar has managed to sway a few opinions already :)
turn in your war criminals and get in line like the rest of eastern europe. you're free to negotiate and speed up the process but you're not getting in the day kosove gets her independence. that's just not going to happen. however, you may be able to join the russian federation that day. :)
I don't think the question is whether Kosovo will get independence, but rather what Serbia's (and others) reaction to that will be. Europe is trying to solve the potentially devastating side-effects independence could have on not only the region, but on Europe's 'united' image. Hopefully all sides will come to a consensus and the a brighter future will await the people.
It would be stupid or at the very least naive to suggest that the integration of Serbia in the EU is not important, because it is. It is important to the EU and to all our region. That however does not mean that the EU will try to get Serbia to join at all costs. After all it is Serbia that has more to gain from accession than the EU. The EU can go on fine without Serbia just as it has done thus far, but an isolated, EU & land locked Serbia that falls in the Russian orbit would have very little to gain from such an eventuality.Look at Belarus and you get the idea.
So for all the political, nationalist rhetoric at the moment the fact that a majority of Serbs want to move West and not East even in the face of the prevailing Western position on Kosova, i.e. independence, shows that the Serb government will eventually be forced to face the tune, accept good neighborly relations with Kosova and join the EU. Otherwise the future of Serbia will for a very long time be held hostage to the loss of Kosova which it will not be able to win back in any case. The Russian alternative, for all the support Russia is offering now, is not very realistic nor is it something to wish for. Russia is only the 17th investor in Serbia which shows how much Serbia has to lose from deteriorating relations with the West and more importantly Russia is moving towards an ever less democratic political system. So the question is really simple: Is the loss of Kosova worth the loss of your democracy and prosperity too?
Kosovo isn't an important issue that we have to be in. The US is looking for an exit from Kosovo and independence is a way to get us out of Kosovo. Once Kosovo is independent, we can free up the troops that are in Kosovo for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Secretary Gates already made known his displeasure that NATO countries aren't shouldering the burden in Afghanistan and wants to pull from Kosovo to use in Afghanistan. Kosovo is Europe's problem, but they weren't able to stop the bloodshed or solve the problem, so the US had to step in. Now, we need resolution and letting the Albanians declare independence will free us of the Balkans. The EU has matured since the beginning of the Bosnia War, when they were unable to muster a consensus to stop it, and should bear the responsibility of helping Kosovo. It's their backyard.
Teni, you might call Serbia landlocked, but the economic view is a strategic trading route. Who wants to drive their good from Western or Central Europe around Serbia instead of through it, other than Albanians? Economically, it is illogical to do so.
Either way, it looks like Serbia will lose Kosovo but gain much more from this while Kosovo will have a short term victory. I would hope that eventually both sides mature so that this cycle stops.
Unless Serbia decides for itself to let Kosovo go, any imposed decision will be poison attitudes and relationships for years ahead.
The EU should listen more closely to what is being said by Serbia.
Europe shows its weakness by trying to be strong. Europe is not fully of one mind, but it is creating pressure within itself to make it appear that way.
Imposing a solution on Kosovo is as much based on the fact that Europe has not been able to conduct integrated foreign policy in the past.
I would be more impressed by an integrated Europe if they would all pull their weight in settling Afgahnistan and Iraq instead of always taking the easy jobs or backing off altogether. Economically the EU may be big, but in terms of action, it is a military mouse.
Trying to play the 'big-boy' is going to be linked to the attitude to the new 'constitution' signed in Lisbon yesterday. Kosovo is the first big opportunity. However, Serbia should stand firm as it has a case that Europe has to answer.
No buy-off will actually happen - there will always be the same set of conditions. On the other hand, whatever happens, they will still want Serbia to become a member in the longer term.
Massimo states the obvious. Yes, the EU wants to keep the ultra-nationalists out of power. Would you want another Mussolini in power in Italy? I'm sure the EU would use their influence to keep that from happening. Postponing independence is the reason behind this move. The world needs a leader who can help Serbia through this time without isolating Serbia from the rest of the world. But Kosovo should take note that Serbia seems to be on a fast track to EU membership. Kosovo's membership will be decades off, but Serbia can tank that once Serbia is a member of the EU, just like Cyprus holds off Turkey and Greece has threatened to do with Macedonia. This unilateral declaration is a slap in the face of the Serbians that will come back to haunt Kosovo years down the road. Russia will likely prevent Kosovo from joining the UN while Serbia would keep Kosovo out of the EU. WTO membership also requires unanimity. I read where one Kosovar said that Serbs and Albanians have no future together during the recent demonstrations in Pristina. I don't think she knew how true that could be.
Good luck with your independence from Serbia, but don't expect much more than luck with the animosity the Albanians are fostering in Kosovo.
Your article and its title is misleading. I just read on a US site that "EU leaders are not offering Serbia a fast-track to membership and again cautioned Belgrade that its future entry hinges on full cooperation in handing over war crime suspects for trial".
Why should Serbia become a
member of club which is
destined to collapse in the
near future or become totally irrelevant. There is so much anger amongst the EU populations against people
from the new EU countries.
You only have to look at the
daily press cuts in the old
EU counties.Serbia should stay independent and alligned
to Russia and shoulf follow
its own path of development.
I have to definitely agree with Massimo's comment. But I have been wondering since the beginning of all of this. Why is Kosovo so important to America and a majority of the EU. I know Camp Bondsteel WAS the largest from scratch military base in the world since Vietnam. So is it a military standpoint that makes Kosovo a strategic location? These are not rhetorical questions, I am genuinely curious. My Father is a Police Officer in the United States and I know that they would not offer him $100,000.00 CASH to go and baby sit a group of people that honestly most didn't really have any concern for until some of the propaganda used to distinguish a good guy and a bad guy (Serbs)up until that point it was pretty much known to anyone that new the region there were some pretty horrific happenings on both sides. If anyone has any suggestions as to why Albanians are more important than so many other Nations that have it far worse please feel free to give me your opinion. At least in Iraq we had SEVERAL excuses for going, (whether any of them were legit or not).
Abaracadabra!!! and in a puff of smoke, serbia enters the eu and so does kosovo, (as it is still under serbias national boundries), introduce the european system of law and ipso facto problem solved!!! and for my next trick i will make pres. bush disappear!!!
this is a very elegant option, one where the eu stands for, finally something else then the market. now serbia has to decide what it wants; progress, or standstill, possible civil war, and some happy nationalists.
If i was Serbia i would go for the EU unless there are strings attach then forget it. Leave Kosovo in the Dark and move on to the EU. If you are a member and Kosovo wants to join then you just VETO.
This is amusing! Now they urge Serbia to join EU as Serbia and its citizens are not the one that should be asked at first place. This arogant EU just presumed that Serbs would be very happy to join them as son as possible. Serbia was very clear when saying that it won't make any similar deal and yet EU still continues with its offers. Well, in that case the Serbian people should be asked in referendum are they saying YES to EU and first class thieves or NO. I am sure EU would be surprised after the referendum that would result 70% in favour of NO.
It seams that fictional name dardania will only be in Rowhlings books.And Europians are changing the tune again-oh-how they care about the good of Serbia.
They should care a lot more in the coming months,since they won`t have many bargaining chips on a table.
EU hypcrisy again. It is against the rule of law for Kosovo to unilaterally become independence. Second, bribing a nation is also against the law.
I'd also like to know what makes them to sure they can give us "earlier membership." The current EU treaty blocks membership at 27 and the one replacing it will likely not be implemented for at least 1 or 2 years when it is ratified by all states -- and ratification is an issue. How about instwead of making some vague promise they set out a clear date otherwise their bribes are lies.
I would first get the UK ,ALL the EU and U.S to apologise for their illegal bombing of Belgrade and killing the innocent Serb people.Then say NO DEAL ,they know full well they are in the wrong according to international law.
Kosovo is and always will be part of Serbia, let the Albanians just keep thinking they will might have a chance to steal Kosovo with the USA's help,,,,,keep dreaming.
Right. So why would anyone want to be in a union where the major Western powers bring all decisions using the union as a cover for their open and secret agendas? Do they really think that a 'union' based on bribes, threats and economic blackmail will work in the long run? I doubt so. Serbia has all the rights legal and moral to protect her interests. Anyone who thinks that they can use all those methods to blackmail Serbia or anyone else into something is making a huge mistake. The EU major powers are not Serbia's friends. And you do not join 'unions' with countries that used unfriendly and illegal methods to damage your country. This is a simple truth that is very difficult to dismiss. They can try all they want to put blame on Serbia but this is a project by scientists in the USA. Have a look about what they think what's really going on in the world, where we are at the moment and who and what is to blame for it. Take a look. There are no Serbs mentioned in there. Not once. The Western powers destroyed lives of millions of people throughout the former Yugoslavia with their deadly Balkan dance. They think they can spin all their crimes away with "collateral damage" and similar spinning attempts etc...Yeah right:
If I were in the position, the only way I would seriously consider this is that Serbia enter the EU the day K-Albanians get their independence. Also a big obese check. To start us off right in the EU. The EU is just short of begging Serbia to let Kosovo have it's indep. Serbia should take advantage of the situation & see how much the EU is willing to give for Kosovo's independence. Damn, the power of 1244 & international law = priceless. Milk the EU cow dry Serbia!
reading those comments here...one can get only a little idea of how little most of the readers/writers here actually know about the recent development in regard to the EU.
in the future there won´t be any VETO-possibilities...
haven´t you read the newspapers or at least watched tv???
so, childish comments like those of doni... ( Serbs will only enter the EU to take revenge ) or others who say enter the EU and than veto the attempt of Kosovo joining it... those comments are simply naive.
Kosovo won´t enter the EU without Serbia. remember, there´s UNSC 1244!
and the EU will rather go to hell than to accept a toy-republic without international legally accepted recognition! the EU would have to act against international law... that simply won´t happen! don´t even dream of it, it´s senseless.
so, all in all, that´s the reason why some westerners are trying to recommend Serbia "and Kosovo" to join at the same time... they only do not say, ( because it´s a part of Serbia ) why...
so, the K-albanians will have the opportunity to feel as if they have won...and Serbia will still be the legal sovereign over that territory.
EU offer is such a disappointment, and that really shows what EU is becoming - a selfish colonial mechanism, the power play of the big vultures. Sarkozy's ''sincere'' message to Serbia - give Kosovo away, respect human rights, fulfill the Hague obligations, and no problem, you will easily be in the family!? One can now only laugh at the sarcastic comments that Serbia is linking itself to Russia.
As for the comment on Mladic and Karadzic, I want to say one thing. Serbia has paid like no other country in history for the events in the nineties, it has been ruthlessly devastated by NATO, its citizens chased out from their homes from ex Yugoslavia, the country was especially sanctioned by those who initiated global tragedies and human rights violations in the 20th Century, ie. the US and Germany. And now its territory is unscrupulously taken away. So what do you guys want more from Serbia, abnd when is this scavenging going to stop. I therefore say NO to this EU that is ripping the country apart and continuing to condition it indefinitely.
Kosovo, Nato Candidate, Eu Candidate. If and when Kosovo becomes independent it will be a long time before it becomes a EU member. First you have to establish an army capable to meeting NATO standards, but that won't happen because Kosovo is not allowed to have an Military Force only a small police unit according to the Art Plan; 2 you must establish a economy capable of support the people. Until you have that you won't be seeing NATO OR the EU unless meet there terms. Serbia stands a better chance of getting there than Kosovo. Reason i say this is once EU comes to Kosovo there will be most of the young people heading for the west to make big money and Kosovo will lose most of it's skilled people. If EU is running things there will be no more hiring someone without skills just because he is a family member and kick the skilled person to the side.
Nesha and Jovan well said I agree 100%.
What Germany could not take from Serbs in two world wars they try to with this new method of European Union.
Don't forget the EU started as an economic agreement between Germany and France
and Serbia has been a strong counter weight to German expansion in the Balkans.
Kosovo will not be taken legally and it will never be anything more than occupied Serbian land.
American eagle you write with typical American arrogance when trying to explain why America does what it does around the world.To David's question.
As with anything there are some complex geostrategic reasons for America's interest in Kosovo.I will list a few things and you can google in depth some of them.
Americas motive for Kosovo
1.Eastward NATO expansion
2.Encircling of Russia
3.AMBO pipeline .Will produce 750,000 barrels of oil per day That is the low end number (you think Americans built Bondsteel just to leave the area in a few years? Bondsteel is there to protect the pipeline which is starting work soon.They new Serbs would not be so willing to allow Americans this action since Americans knew of Serbian-Russian ties no matter how thin those ties were/are.
3.Americans erroneously think that giving Kosovo to muslims will show muslims that they are doing something to help the cause and they are friends not enemies.It will improve things in Iraq and other muslims lands the US wants to dominate (Don't believe my word read up).
4.Caspian oil
The Americans are working on this with the Germans since Germany has always tried to control this region.See Kosovo is not and American issue or European it was an internal Serbian issue.America is not there because of any noble reasons like humanity,democracy,or freedom they are there because why any empire was there before them.To get a better understanding of America's true motives please read Mr. Zbignew Brazinski's The Grand Chessborad.
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