Munter: Difficult days for U.S. – Serbia relations

His Excellency is personally a nice person, a departure from previous several ambassadors. But he is only ambassador, his duty is to convey the message unaltered. He is not responsible for Department of State actions.

Every Serb who meets him, should say:

Your Excellency, I understand how you personally feel for having to represent illegal, immoral and Unamerican policy of your own country. Let's not talk about it, let's have a round of sljivovica instead."

Dear Mr. Munter, perhaps you should focus on Americas problems first. You have over 15 Million people homeless, another 80 Million living in poverty, your society is among the most violent in the world, you have over 30 Million people in jails and prisons on any given day. Over 70 Million Americans do not have health Care insurance and your middle class is quickly disappearing. Your government is the leading cause of instability in the world's hot spots. So Mr. Munter you have some nerve to lecture Serbs about their problems.

I personally agree with Petrovic. He is only an ambassador and he is not voicing his own opinion. Rather that of the US regime.

Quite an interesting remark this diplomat is making: we, the US, support the Ahtisaari plan, although many are against it including the Serbian government. So even if the majority of countries are against this plan, the allmighty USA is nonetheless pushing for independence of Kosovo. So much for democracy... (But then: the Greeks invented democracy, not the Americans)

Traditionally and fundamentally, Serbia is pro-Western, but Washington has gone to enormous lenghts to alienate this natural ally while also bending over backward to make friends in place where its barely feasable (Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan... ). Long-term, this Albanian-American love affair will turn extremely sour, just as Uncle Sam once embrased Saddam Hussein during the conflict with Iran or the Talibans during the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan.
Are the policy-makers in WDC completely blind? There will be no comfort in telling them one day ``told-you-so'' if they push through with the irrepairable damage today, e.g. by pressing so hard for an independent Kosovo.

Bob I agree.To Joe and Mark I certainly understand defending your country but in the current situation the America that was once a beacon for humanity and morality is gone.Sure people would move to the US the one reason above any is the economic one.America has done much much more harm than good in this region and Serbs have a good memory.The reason people never polemize against poor, impuissant countries is because they are just that and have no international influence like the US.Americans like to go on and on about how great and and democratic they are but in reality they give less $ in international aid than Norway on average and are the greatest threat to peace.Americans are raised to think that government is a noble and benevolent force rather than the greatest threat they will ever face.Canadians numbers are not really off do some reading and see.I cannot believe this guy is still talking to Serbs about the Ahtisaari plan it is sort of insulting to keep parroting something which has been utterly rejected at the UN.The US policy towards Serbija is a joke why do they keep it up.

personally, I think he should be sent home.

the US should get a clear message, that if they should do this terrible mistake, they should not count on any further relations with Serbia ( the leading economical motor in the region ).

they should better think of it twice, instead of making mistakes that couldn´t be fixed again.

since the US were already terribly misjudging the russian standpoint, and now they are risking to lose their grip...
the US are not really acting very smart in regard to the current issue.

seems like they do not get it..

Only in a Serbian website do you see an American (Bob) and a Canadian (Canadian) insulting Americans.

Canadian,

What do you think how many Serbs would come to the US for a better existence if no visa, no formality would be required?
Few hundred thousands or 1 or 2 millions?
Everything is relative. Many of our poors would be considered middle class or even rich in Serbia. I always enjoy when you go into this polemic against us. People never polemize against poor, impuissant countries but only against mighty ones like my great country the US.

Ambassador Muniter,

Of the nine million inhabitants in Serbia, two million are ethnic Albanians many of whom reside in Kosovo (Serbia). President Abraham Lincoln argued, “Secession can pose a lethal threat to democracy, if a discontented minority can exit the polity whenever it is outvoted by the majority on an issue it deems of great importance, then the majority does not rule. In addition, if secession is considered as a real option, then a minority group may use the threat of ‘exit’ as a form of ‘voice’ that serves as an effective veto on majority rule” (Thomas). As in one of our core democratic values, popular sovereignty, where the majority rules, so too should this hold true in all societies. We Americans would never tolerate a threat to our democracy, nor would we accept a division of our country by internal or external forces. We are hypocrites to expect the Serbian nation to allow 15% of their country to be dismembered against their will.

Joe,

If you had been born and raised in the United States, there is a possibility you would understand what “freedom of speech” truly means.

That people express their opinions that might differ from your own, regardless of their ethnicity, does not make them any less American.

Your hatred and intolerance of all things Serbian is revealed in just about everything you write.

Good thinks are always in danger in unfavourable conditions.

This implies of course to the Albanians in the Vally and B92, who happened to be in Serbia, where conditions for the good are very difficult.

Dear Mr. Munter, perhaps you should focus on Americas problems first. You have over 15 Million people homeless, another 80 Million living in poverty, your society is among the most violent in the world, you have over 30 Million people in jails and prisons on any given day. Over 70 Million Americans do not have health Care insurance and your middle class is quickly disappearing. Your government is the leading cause of instability in the world's hot spots. So Mr. Munter you have some nerve to lecture Serbs about their problems.
(Canadian, 13 December 2007 21:22)

To say that you are not well informed it would be an insult to your intelligence but when one read your comments and the numbers you gave us here, one can't help but ask, why?

Do you forget that we live in an electronic world where, in seconds, we can find out the truth? Do you forget that not everyone reads Serbianna or watch RTS? Or you know very well that this is a pure lie, you know and everyone knows it, yet you just have to say it. Just like you know the real numbers of Kosova's churches burned, Serbs killed etc, yet you just love to exaggerate by hundreds & thousands, or as in this case, in millions.

"15 milion homeless Americans
80 million in poverty
30 million in prison
70 million with no insurance"

Here is the right numbers or estimates, which still, is far more realistic then your numbers.

Washington—There were 744,313 people homeless in January 2005 according to Homelessness Counts, the first national assessment of the number of homeless people in over a decade

WASHINGTON — The number of Americans living in poverty rose by 1.1 million to 37 million last year, despite a robust economy that created 2.2 million new jobs. It was the fourth consecutive year poverty has risen.

The Pew report, to be released today, projects the nation's prison population will be about 1.72 million by 2011, up from an estimated 1.53 million at the end of last year.

The number of people without health insurance rose by 800,000 to 45.8 million. But the number with health insurance also increased by 2 million, to 245.3 million.

Let's recap your numbers and real numbers

15 million homeless (800.000)
80 million in poverty(37mil)
30 million in prison(1.53mil)
70 million with no insurance(45.8mil)
* Note: The numbers in brackets are the real numbers.

So Canadian, once again, your today's numbers have outnumbered you and every thing you say as a fact.
Anyway, I never take your comments seriously, as you proved many times, you just love to say the opposite of what is in a reality.

P.S If this how you trying to lecture us, Canadian, then I would rather have you spare us, from such lecture

15 million homeless (800.000)
80 million in poverty(37mil)
30 million in prison(1.53mil)
70 million with no insurance(45.8mil)
* Note: The numbers in brackets are the real numbers.

So Canadian, once again, your today's numbers have outnumbered you and every thing you say as a fact.
Anyway, I never take your comments seriously, as you proved many times, you just love to say the opposite of what is in a reality.

P.S If this how you trying to lecture us, Canadian, then I would rather have you spare us, from such lecture
(Flamur,UK, 13 December 2007 23:33)

Flamur, Your numbers are dated (over 3 years old) they are in fact much higher now! But even if they were not and I made a mistake, do you think in your smug wisdom that according to your numbers 37 million people in poverty is OK? or that 15 million people are homeless is OK? or that 1.53 million people in prison is OK? What is the matter with you? America should be ashamed of these numbers, whether mine numbers or yours they are both shameful and by the was as for the the homeless numbers, your source is 100% playing those numbers down! The same goes for people in Jail, look at this way if a crime is committed in the USA every 7 seconds how is it possible that they only have 1.53 million people in jail on any given day? Do the math and you will see that your source is a joke or the USA has the worst police and prosecution forces in the world where no one goes to jail for their crimes. I live Canada so I'm much closer to America than you buddy. I have lived there I have worked there.

P.S.

The U.K. numbers are not much better and in fact some of them are even worse than the USA. Check it out the U.K. can now be proud to say that per capita it has more violent crimes than most other European countries and even the USA.

I think Canadian's basic argument that we should take care of our own people first is a good point. Why are we worried about dividing up a country when we have domestic and international problems that are much more important than Kosovo? I would rather see the money that we are spending in Kosovo spent on feeding and housing those homeless Americans. We could do better than feeding some foreigner who will never repay Americans for the American citizens' tax dollars given to them and which I helped worked for. At least when we feed and house our own, we can also provide them skills to make them more functional members of our society. American generosity has gone too far and, in some cases, as is taken advantage of. So Canadian's argument is basically sound. I really question Flamur's housing stats. That is way low considering what I have heard about homelessness in major cities.

Joe, comparing our middle class to their upper class is like comparing apples to oranges. You have to use the purchasing power parity concept to compare the economy of two societies. I would suggest one read up on it before making a crude analysis like this. If we went by this thinking, all Americans be kings in China, but are we and would we want to live in that society? Would we also make it when we would earn the Chinese middle class equivalent salary? Also, every argument on this website is polemic, which is just a synonym for argument. Yours included.

Dear Mr. Munter, perhaps you should focus on Americas problems first. You have over 15 Million people homeless, another 80 Million living in poverty, your society is among the most violent in the world, you have over 30 Million people in jails and prisons on any given day. Over 70 Million Americans do not have health Care insurance and your middle class is quickly disappearing. Your government is the leading cause of instability in the world's hot spots. So Mr. Munter you have some nerve to lecture Serbs about their problems.
(Canadian, 13 December 2007 21:22)

it's one thing to have a warped point of view but these figures you've posted are ridiculous. regardless, you feel inclined to point out negative aspects about the US and that's fine but you neglect to mention any of the great things they have done and continue to do. by the way, for all of you wealthy canadians north of the border who suffer from a life-threatening illness, why is it that you come to the US to treat your plight? hmmmmmm? i wonder.

Look who is talking!?
canadien,
mind your own problems. you dont know what America is!!!

Well duh!

Since B92 refuses to post my painfully truthful comments and lives in its own world of denial, let me summarize my last banned post: Serbia should break diplomatic relations with the US right now. Why the Serbian government continues to negotiate with a country's government (US) that is dedicated to the destruction of the Serbs is beyond reason. Munter is lucky that he didn't get chased back to his helicopter like that UN envoy in Kosovo.

It is obvious that this albanian poster KS knows nothing about the US. Bob's posts about the US are nothing when compared how american reporters criticize the us president's press spokeperson EVERY DAY.

I like to read these vitriolic comments of some of the Serbian Americans against their country. Well they are Americans only on paper.
If the US would act irresponsibly like Russia and would be on the side of those who committed crimes not seen in Europe since WWII than these "Americans" would speak about the US in glowing terms.
Anyway for the US it does not matter how a handfull of such people think.

Good thinks are always in danger in unfavourable conditions.

This implies of course to the Albanians in the Vally and B92, who happened to be in Serbia, where conditions for the good are very difficult.

Canadian,

What do you think how many Serbs would come to the US for a better existence if no visa, no formality would be required?
Few hundred thousands or 1 or 2 millions?
Everything is relative. Many of our poors would be considered middle class or even rich in Serbia. I always enjoy when you go into this polemic against us. People never polemize against poor, impuissant countries but only against mighty ones like my great country the US.

Dear Mr. Munter, perhaps you should focus on Americas problems first. You have over 15 Million people homeless, another 80 Million living in poverty, your society is among the most violent in the world, you have over 30 Million people in jails and prisons on any given day. Over 70 Million Americans do not have health Care insurance and your middle class is quickly disappearing. Your government is the leading cause of instability in the world's hot spots. So Mr. Munter you have some nerve to lecture Serbs about their problems.
(Canadian, 13 December 2007 21:22)

it's one thing to have a warped point of view but these figures you've posted are ridiculous. regardless, you feel inclined to point out negative aspects about the US and that's fine but you neglect to mention any of the great things they have done and continue to do. by the way, for all of you wealthy canadians north of the border who suffer from a life-threatening illness, why is it that you come to the US to treat your plight? hmmmmmm? i wonder.

Only in a Serbian website do you see an American (Bob) and a Canadian (Canadian) insulting Americans.

His Excellency is personally a nice person, a departure from previous several ambassadors. But he is only ambassador, his duty is to convey the message unaltered. He is not responsible for Department of State actions.

Every Serb who meets him, should say:

Your Excellency, I understand how you personally feel for having to represent illegal, immoral and Unamerican policy of your own country. Let's not talk about it, let's have a round of sljivovica instead."

Dear Mr. Munter, perhaps you should focus on Americas problems first. You have over 15 Million people homeless, another 80 Million living in poverty, your society is among the most violent in the world, you have over 30 Million people in jails and prisons on any given day. Over 70 Million Americans do not have health Care insurance and your middle class is quickly disappearing. Your government is the leading cause of instability in the world's hot spots. So Mr. Munter you have some nerve to lecture Serbs about their problems.

I personally agree with Petrovic. He is only an ambassador and he is not voicing his own opinion. Rather that of the US regime.

Look who is talking!?
canadien,
mind your own problems. you dont know what America is!!!

Dear Mr. Munter, perhaps you should focus on Americas problems first. You have over 15 Million people homeless, another 80 Million living in poverty, your society is among the most violent in the world, you have over 30 Million people in jails and prisons on any given day. Over 70 Million Americans do not have health Care insurance and your middle class is quickly disappearing. Your government is the leading cause of instability in the world's hot spots. So Mr. Munter you have some nerve to lecture Serbs about their problems.
(Canadian, 13 December 2007 21:22)

To say that you are not well informed it would be an insult to your intelligence but when one read your comments and the numbers you gave us here, one can't help but ask, why?

Do you forget that we live in an electronic world where, in seconds, we can find out the truth? Do you forget that not everyone reads Serbianna or watch RTS? Or you know very well that this is a pure lie, you know and everyone knows it, yet you just have to say it. Just like you know the real numbers of Kosova's churches burned, Serbs killed etc, yet you just love to exaggerate by hundreds & thousands, or as in this case, in millions.

"15 milion homeless Americans
80 million in poverty
30 million in prison
70 million with no insurance"

Here is the right numbers or estimates, which still, is far more realistic then your numbers.

Washington—There were 744,313 people homeless in January 2005 according to Homelessness Counts, the first national assessment of the number of homeless people in over a decade

WASHINGTON — The number of Americans living in poverty rose by 1.1 million to 37 million last year, despite a robust economy that created 2.2 million new jobs. It was the fourth consecutive year poverty has risen.

The Pew report, to be released today, projects the nation's prison population will be about 1.72 million by 2011, up from an estimated 1.53 million at the end of last year.

The number of people without health insurance rose by 800,000 to 45.8 million. But the number with health insurance also increased by 2 million, to 245.3 million.

Let's recap your numbers and real numbers

15 million homeless (800.000)
80 million in poverty(37mil)
30 million in prison(1.53mil)
70 million with no insurance(45.8mil)
* Note: The numbers in brackets are the real numbers.

So Canadian, once again, your today's numbers have outnumbered you and every thing you say as a fact.
Anyway, I never take your comments seriously, as you proved many times, you just love to say the opposite of what is in a reality.

P.S If this how you trying to lecture us, Canadian, then I would rather have you spare us, from such lecture

personally, I think he should be sent home.

the US should get a clear message, that if they should do this terrible mistake, they should not count on any further relations with Serbia ( the leading economical motor in the region ).

they should better think of it twice, instead of making mistakes that couldn´t be fixed again.

since the US were already terribly misjudging the russian standpoint, and now they are risking to lose their grip...
the US are not really acting very smart in regard to the current issue.

seems like they do not get it..

Well duh!

Quite an interesting remark this diplomat is making: we, the US, support the Ahtisaari plan, although many are against it including the Serbian government. So even if the majority of countries are against this plan, the allmighty USA is nonetheless pushing for independence of Kosovo. So much for democracy... (But then: the Greeks invented democracy, not the Americans)

Traditionally and fundamentally, Serbia is pro-Western, but Washington has gone to enormous lenghts to alienate this natural ally while also bending over backward to make friends in place where its barely feasable (Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan... ). Long-term, this Albanian-American love affair will turn extremely sour, just as Uncle Sam once embrased Saddam Hussein during the conflict with Iran or the Talibans during the Soviet invasion in Afghanistan.
Are the policy-makers in WDC completely blind? There will be no comfort in telling them one day ``told-you-so'' if they push through with the irrepairable damage today, e.g. by pressing so hard for an independent Kosovo.

Bob I agree.To Joe and Mark I certainly understand defending your country but in the current situation the America that was once a beacon for humanity and morality is gone.Sure people would move to the US the one reason above any is the economic one.America has done much much more harm than good in this region and Serbs have a good memory.The reason people never polemize against poor, impuissant countries is because they are just that and have no international influence like the US.Americans like to go on and on about how great and and democratic they are but in reality they give less $ in international aid than Norway on average and are the greatest threat to peace.Americans are raised to think that government is a noble and benevolent force rather than the greatest threat they will ever face.Canadians numbers are not really off do some reading and see.I cannot believe this guy is still talking to Serbs about the Ahtisaari plan it is sort of insulting to keep parroting something which has been utterly rejected at the UN.The US policy towards Serbija is a joke why do they keep it up.

15 million homeless (800.000)
80 million in poverty(37mil)
30 million in prison(1.53mil)
70 million with no insurance(45.8mil)
* Note: The numbers in brackets are the real numbers.

So Canadian, once again, your today's numbers have outnumbered you and every thing you say as a fact.
Anyway, I never take your comments seriously, as you proved many times, you just love to say the opposite of what is in a reality.

P.S If this how you trying to lecture us, Canadian, then I would rather have you spare us, from such lecture
(Flamur,UK, 13 December 2007 23:33)

Flamur, Your numbers are dated (over 3 years old) they are in fact much higher now! But even if they were not and I made a mistake, do you think in your smug wisdom that according to your numbers 37 million people in poverty is OK? or that 15 million people are homeless is OK? or that 1.53 million people in prison is OK? What is the matter with you? America should be ashamed of these numbers, whether mine numbers or yours they are both shameful and by the was as for the the homeless numbers, your source is 100% playing those numbers down! The same goes for people in Jail, look at this way if a crime is committed in the USA every 7 seconds how is it possible that they only have 1.53 million people in jail on any given day? Do the math and you will see that your source is a joke or the USA has the worst police and prosecution forces in the world where no one goes to jail for their crimes. I live Canada so I'm much closer to America than you buddy. I have lived there I have worked there.

P.S.

The U.K. numbers are not much better and in fact some of them are even worse than the USA. Check it out the U.K. can now be proud to say that per capita it has more violent crimes than most other European countries and even the USA.

Ambassador Muniter,

Of the nine million inhabitants in Serbia, two million are ethnic Albanians many of whom reside in Kosovo (Serbia). President Abraham Lincoln argued, “Secession can pose a lethal threat to democracy, if a discontented minority can exit the polity whenever it is outvoted by the majority on an issue it deems of great importance, then the majority does not rule. In addition, if secession is considered as a real option, then a minority group may use the threat of ‘exit’ as a form of ‘voice’ that serves as an effective veto on majority rule” (Thomas). As in one of our core democratic values, popular sovereignty, where the majority rules, so too should this hold true in all societies. We Americans would never tolerate a threat to our democracy, nor would we accept a division of our country by internal or external forces. We are hypocrites to expect the Serbian nation to allow 15% of their country to be dismembered against their will.

Since B92 refuses to post my painfully truthful comments and lives in its own world of denial, let me summarize my last banned post: Serbia should break diplomatic relations with the US right now. Why the Serbian government continues to negotiate with a country's government (US) that is dedicated to the destruction of the Serbs is beyond reason. Munter is lucky that he didn't get chased back to his helicopter like that UN envoy in Kosovo.

It is obvious that this albanian poster KS knows nothing about the US. Bob's posts about the US are nothing when compared how american reporters criticize the us president's press spokeperson EVERY DAY.

I think Canadian's basic argument that we should take care of our own people first is a good point. Why are we worried about dividing up a country when we have domestic and international problems that are much more important than Kosovo? I would rather see the money that we are spending in Kosovo spent on feeding and housing those homeless Americans. We could do better than feeding some foreigner who will never repay Americans for the American citizens' tax dollars given to them and which I helped worked for. At least when we feed and house our own, we can also provide them skills to make them more functional members of our society. American generosity has gone too far and, in some cases, as is taken advantage of. So Canadian's argument is basically sound. I really question Flamur's housing stats. That is way low considering what I have heard about homelessness in major cities.

Joe, comparing our middle class to their upper class is like comparing apples to oranges. You have to use the purchasing power parity concept to compare the economy of two societies. I would suggest one read up on it before making a crude analysis like this. If we went by this thinking, all Americans be kings in China, but are we and would we want to live in that society? Would we also make it when we would earn the Chinese middle class equivalent salary? Also, every argument on this website is polemic, which is just a synonym for argument. Yours included.

I like to read these vitriolic comments of some of the Serbian Americans against their country. Well they are Americans only on paper.
If the US would act irresponsibly like Russia and would be on the side of those who committed crimes not seen in Europe since WWII than these "Americans" would speak about the US in glowing terms.
Anyway for the US it does not matter how a handfull of such people think.

Joe,

If you had been born and raised in the United States, there is a possibility you would understand what “freedom of speech” truly means.

That people express their opinions that might differ from your own, regardless of their ethnicity, does not make them any less American.

Your hatred and intolerance of all things Serbian is revealed in just about everything you write.