Kouchner: Kosovo to wait for Serbian vote

Kosovo is about as unique as Clinton is an 'honest man'. In other words, it's not unique at all. There are dozens of separatist movements watching this situation very closely who are ready to pounce.
As for clean cut's ridiculous comparison to Sudan, that is laughable. Do you even know what is going on in Sudan or did someone tell you to repeat that statement? In Sudan Muslims are persecuting Christians, which is exactly what is going on in Kosovo. Another attempt by albanians to turn the victims into the aggressors, to turn their lies into the truth, and to turn black into white.

Kosovo certainly is a unique case. You steal 15% of a sovreign nation's territory and establish a puppet NATO state in its place. Ingenius, illegal and ultimately unworkable. I almost feel sorry for these "kosovars",believing that Uncle sam,the EU,and the Brits actually care about them. By the way,who is going to pay for this new little European nation?

Of course Kosova is an unique case. The oppression of the kind that Albanians have been under Serbia has no parallel in Europe, but only in Africa. Serbia has been acting like the Sudan of Europe for the last 20 years. What do you expect?

I have yet to be convinced as to why Kosmet is a unique case for independence. If you are to apply the 'sui generis' case to Kosmet then surely why do you deny whole nations the right of self determination - Palestinians, Basque, Tibetans, West Papuans, Tamils, Ossetians, Scots, Banda Aceh, Abkhazians, ethnic Russians in Baltics and Ukraine, Bosnian Serbs, etc. Surely they have a genuine case for self determination...

or is it simply to what suits the US geo political agenda. If so then Princip's tangled web could be a one that we could yet weave.

Wrong Mr. Miliband. In the face of law the word “uniqueness” does not exists. Unique cases create precedents. This is a danger way of thinking and acting.
My wife family has been forced to leave Kosovo and Metohija under pressure of Albanian terror. They left all of their belongings behind. If somebody force you to leave your home, land and everything your family owned through generation you will not be so easy in declarations of “unique ceases”. That’s cheep talking. I know that your government is not backing you with compensation ready for hundreds of thousand of Serbs (billion of pounds) in relation to the land ownerships and suffering they had to pass through because of its own wrong policy. Maybe you know more? I do not think so. What is solution in relation to the church land ownership where “compensation” has other meanings than just” money”? Maybe the “other way around” solution should be better; if you can persuade your government to pay relocation for all Albanians back to country where they come from originally.
My perception is that Serbs are too smart to allow themselves to accept your “wisdom”.
I’ll give you a tip Mr. Miliband. If you wish independence for Kosovo i Metohija you have to act unlawfully to be able to bypass legal implications of UN Resoluion 1244. That’s what your government is committed to, isn’t Mr. Miliband?

Of course Kosova is an unique case. The oppression of the kind that Albanians have been under Serbia has no parallel in Europe, but only in Africa. Serbia has been acting like the Sudan of Europe for the last 20 years. What do you expect? (Clean Cut, 10 December 2007 11:58)

We expect the same right for Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia. Kosovo Albanians lost about 1% of the population during the Milosevic terror, while the Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia lost 15% due to Ustasha terror. They do not have to be 15 times more "unique," they should just be treated equally as Kosovo Albanians.

Scotland now wants its Independence from the UK but London is not prepared to give it to them claiming that Kosovo is unique,... What a double standard and a loud of nonsense. See article link >> http://www.theherald.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1891995.mostviewed.the_fear_of_scottish_independence_that_unites_historic_enemies.php

The UK has started a wildfire problem for themselves at home and if they think they can put the fire out by simply saying that Kosovo is unique then they are fooling themselves. I have to wonder if all this is truly worth it just to make the USA happy? Where has England's pride gone? They have been reduced to nothing more than just a US side kick ever since the end of World War 2. They don't owe the US anything and in fact is they should be thankful to the Russians who lost over 1 Million soldiers too take down Berlin in 1945.

Hey UK, please save your image and stop repeating the same paraphony on your damaged cd record of your foreign policy.

UK people are great, UK retired officials are great.
The only problem is with officials on duty.
Do i smell smth wierd?

Yes kosovo is a completely unique case.... a terrorist leader now runs the country...
what about srpska repbulika in bosnia? and how is that not different? i must also stress that UN soldiers were at hand in bosnia.... want to explain that? Kosovo is by no means a unique case.

To clean cut.

Can you please tell me what oppression you are talking about? Because it is Serbs that were ethnically clensed from their homeland by albanians; with backing of illegal nato aggression.

In which case Mr Miliband when you suggest the EU path why are you trying to artificially create a secessionist entity against the will of the Soverign and UN recognised State and not promoting reconcilation and trust building that can forge a way forward to a Integral Serbia joining the EU ?

Is he that so naive to think Serbia forcefully partitioned will wish to be part of a EU that aided and abetted in its partition ?

Tadic must clarify to this Blairite that forcefull partition of Serbia will be the deathbed of Serbia's EU accession ! In which case Miliband needs to do some serious reflection on his dire and lacking analysis.

And I wish to stress:
Basqia is unique case! ETA waged campaign for independance that is far cleaner then one launched by KLA, and I don't see any reason that it should be considered terrorist organization any more.
Besides.
"this is a completely unique case. Kosovo is a province administered by the UN and is located within a country which states that it wants to be a part of Europe,” Miliband said."

Basqia is not administered by UN , and there is no UN resolution explicitly stating that it's part of Spain. Reason more to recognize it. Furthermore, it's located within the country that is already part of Europe.
Basqia is unique and should be recognized now.

Wishful thinking Minister!

What is realy "uniqe" is trying to steal Serbian land under the pretense of fallowing the world order and trying to lobby even Polish population.
Hitler tried to do that to Poland and it did not work.
So if this so called politicians do care about peace and order thay would try something-like maybe stop this noncense.

Clean Cut, in a way you are right. There are similarities between Kosovo and Sudan (although the situation in Sudan is much worse; why does the West not intervene?). However, for the past eight years Serbia has had no authority over Kosovo and could therefore not oppress K-Albanians. On the other hand, during this period many K-Serbs were driven out of Kosovo. So who have been the oppressed: the K-Albanians or the K-Serbs?

@ CleanCunt:

Hey man you are honestly becoming a broken record!

*Pyrros
First Tony Blair, now Brown. I think your hearing echos of ALL EU countries recognising Kosova/o the newest state in the world.
I think Kostunica should aplay for a job in Chechenia now, since he has done great job promoting Kosovas Independens.

Clean Cut

Can B92 please take some sort of responsibility and remove his comment above since it is completely unfounded and eternally hipocritical.

Who formed a terrorist organistation to remove all non-Albanians?
Who took to the streets en masse to destroy all evidense of Serbian civilisation?

Serbia has done nothing in Kosovo during SFRJ to solve the Albanian problem there that is why we are in this mess.

For anyone reading his comment please relise that there is absultely nothing true about it and the comparison is quite comical, not to mention farcical.

well, every individual person with a milligram of brain within the head will know that Kosovo would of course be a precedent... I am surprised they still try to fool someone with outdated phrases...

if those Miliband´s and Co. are repeating that nonsense all along, they really must be very desperate.

good. truly good.

Pyrros, I agree with you. They are just an embarrassment, as are most of the media nowadays. I'm not even sure if the current crop of officials will be of interest when they retire.

It used to be that politicians in the UK could speak knowledgably off-the-cuff, but from Blair onwards everything is scripted and approved and the officials are now just pen pushers and public speakers.

I thought under Gordon Brown things may improve but it's not looking good.

There are a few good people but they will never be allowed up front.

We should not underestimate the instability of the situation,” he added.

Mr Minister You should not underestimate other ethnic groups or nations that has aspiration towards seceding. Lets see how Kosovo is going to be unique.I am looking forward!!! Basque Minister is already waiting for Kosovo's outcome.

why B92 prints clean Cuts comment i have no idea, Unique is Darfur, over a million people dead or displaced. Now that is a unique case 10,000 versus a million? Tibet, South Georgia in the former Russian Repbulic, Basque in Spain. So once this is done independence then here comes North Kosovo Serbs are majority we want to succeed. Western Macedonia, majority albanian, Northern Greece, Southern Montenegro the list goes on Kosovo is the stepping stone and the EU is on it's on with this on the US is playing in Iraq and Afgainstan. US Def Minister has said if the Euro does not contribute to Afganistan the US is out of Kosovo. A big stew of mudd being stirred and the EU will be running for cover. I have not any inflammatory post so it the truth.

Canadian:
"Where has English pride gone" LAUGH !!
Let me tell you the UK is now full of down and outs,parsites, and drug pushers.There is no law and order as such,and the prisons are full to bursting point.
This guy Milliband didn't want the 2 MP'S to go to Sudan to get that teacher released for calling that teddy Mohhamid.That sums up
English pride. So what chance have the serbs got,if he has any say in Kosovo status.
If the domino effect should start, i just hope the EU Countries who begun this gets as much egg on their faces as possible.

erhm.. "unique case" ...
Basque minister – Kosovo positive precedent

Kosovo is unique.
Northern Ireland is unique.
Basque region is unique.
Moldova is unique .....
All teritorial disputes are complicated and that's why they are difficult to solve, so by definition each case is unique. They will of course all form points of reference for future disputes.
What the Foreign Secretary really means is, that "we have made up our mind and we're not going to change it". The final outcome for Kosovo was settled by Milosevic's criminal actions. He gave Kosovo away, just to stay in power a little longer. As such he is the greatest Anti-Serb of all time, not Del Ponte, Christiana Amanpour, Albright, Clinton, Blair or any of the other people so aften accused here.

Kieran,

The US and EU will pay. I am glad that my tax dollars will be spent on a good, just cause...helping a new country, who's people suffered so much.
And don't be a scooge with your tax euros. Specially the Irish should start to give after receiving billions and billions from the EU already before the ascension.

"Meanwhile his British counterpart, Foreign Secretary David Miliband says Kosovo will not serve as an inspiration to separatists around the world.

“Many countries are afraid that Kosovo can be a model for separatist movements which seek independence. I wish to stress – this is a completely unique case. Kosovo is a province administered by the UN and is located within a country which states that it wants to be a part of Europe,” Miliband said.

He told a Polish daily that he guarantees that Kosovo will not set a precedent, adding that the current situation would not be desired by any European country."

Will not serve as an inspiration to separatists? What tosh! Didn't the Basque official just viewed Kosovo's possible independence as a POSITIVE precedent??? And I have not yet included Ossetia, Kurdistan , Turkish Cyprus, Macedonian Albanians, Flemings of Belgium ..... and dare I include SCOTLAND (and even Wales and the Catholics of N. Ireland) before I type the etc?

He has the audacity to guarantee something that is obviously untenable to anyone with common sense ..... I mean, everyone knows that words are cheap and easy to utter .... didn't the Brit
assured the marsh Arabs that their troops will protect them, and then suddenly withdraw while the insurgents were still running rings around them in Basra? In much the same way that London also caved in to Beijing ealier after boasting to the Hongkongers that the UK would not give up their colony to the Chinese.

Thanks but no thanks Mr Miliband!

As soon as these foolish European countreis accept Kosovo as independent then Russia, Greece, Cyprus and Serbia should start recognizing all the other separatists as well.
There is nothing to stop them. Anyone can recognize or not recognize any section of land as they please.

First to go should be Scotland with full blessing of Russia and the others. Let's see how England likes this. Europe is going to go up in flames again courtesy of American puppets.

It's time people of Europe woke up and threw out their corrupt and spineless governments, or suffer the consequences.

Doesn England really think they can just simply say "you are independent now" and nobody is going to do the same to them? Do they think that US is going to fight a war for them? No, the mess will be theirs to clean up and thiers alone.

pyros

serbs always have problems with the ones that are in duty, when they retire they become OK, but in duty they are bad.
really wiered.

I think that Serbia should recognizes independence of Texas, Baskia, North Ireland, Scotland, Kurdistan, Sicily, .......

What about that?

He was asked why he supports the illegal seperation
that it will cause problems
and the Albanian government mafia ties and all he could say is “it is not mafia.” This clearly shows that he knows all these things and is unwilling to tell the truth.The French cannot even give a good reason why they support taking Kosovo.The only motivation seems to be towing the US line.France and Serbija have been friends through two wars seems petty for them to break that freindship over something that does not even serve any superficial interest.

The US and EU will pay. I am glad that my tax dollars will be spent on a good, just cause...helping a new country, who's people suffered so much.
And don't be a scooge with your tax euros. Specially the Irish should start to give after receiving billions and billions from the EU already before the ascension.
(Joe, 10 December 2007 16:25)

Are you equally as proud of your disgrace in Iraq? OR better yet, how your tax dollars (as you posted "dollars") are being used to help the slaughter of the US's children?

When you're able to post experiences & valid situations where your commentaries are backed by truth, rather than provacation, then you're comments are valid.

To date, there are a number of us that know you're a just a catalyst blowing hot air.

I agree with Clean Cut,we should not ignore what Milosevic did in other parts of former Yugoslavia.It is shame how people forget like nothing happened.
Miliband is doing the right thing with telling EU that no reapiting of 1990 are allowed in Europe.
Serbia should let Kosovo to manage itself,and Serbia go forward EU and get rid of the old myths.

Serbia has done nothing in Kosovo during SFRJ to solve the Albanian problem there that is why we are in this mess.

For anyone reading his comment please relise that there is absultely nothing true about it and the comparison is quite comical, not to mention farcical.
(Vuk, 10 December 2007 13:12)

I wish B92 would let me post footage of Srebrenica (recorded by the Serbs). I'm sure you would love to see Bosnians lined up and shot in the head point blank with a Ak-47.

B92, when are you going to enforce your policy of members not posting multiple times with different names? This needs to stop.

Nial O'Doherty:
I understand your point but frankly why would you expect any of us Albanians to care about such academic concerns?
To us our case is unique by virtue of involving us and that is enough.
But even if you look at it from an international point of view I cannot think of any other such situation in the world where the International Community intervened to save a people, let them live for years and years under de facto independence, albeit with supervision under a resolution which did include provisions (albeit open to interpretation) on a solution of the status issue in the future, and then asked them to go back to being ruled by their former nemesis?
If you can think of any such cases please let me know.
And if you look at it from a practical point of view, what people in the world would accept such a deal without a fight? For us Albanians it would be tantamount to being invaded all over again.

" “Many countries are afraid that Kosovo can be a model for separatist movements which seek independence. I wish to stress – this is a completely unique case. Kosovo is a province administered by the UN and is located within a country which states that it wants to be a part of Europe,” Miliband said."

Within one statement Miliband made two very important mistakes:

1. Serbia is European. Period. How Miliband frames Serbia's intention of joining the EU shows Miliband's POV of UK's colonial thinking. What demarcates European to the UK elite is political and not cultural. I dare even go further and say that that recipe for Europeanization is a prime cause of Balkanization.

2. The uniqueness of attempted independence simply by the fact that it is mandated by resolution 1244 which clearly defines Serbia's overall sovereignty is a contradiction in terms. The uniqueness case only strengthens 1244, it does not undermine it.

What precedent? Is Kosovo really inventing such a thing as independence or is it following the precedent of self-determination?
To think that Kosovo will set such a thing as an "independence precedent" is ludicrous and idiotic. There have been quite a few countries in the world who have set such independence precedents, namely Serbia when it "illegally" seceded from the Ottoman Empire.

Lets be ration and look at the facts. Kosovo is about 90% ethnic Albanian in population who virtually demand self-determination. Kosovo was a veto-wielding constituent part of Yugoslavia, with greater claim to independence than Montenegro who has a sizable Serbian minority and only runs on a minority-majority, with a population almost 1/4 to that of Kosovo.
Autonomy cannot be a realistic approach considering how Serbia revoked it arbitrarily and there are no assurances of it being done again. Furthermore, you cannot make a now de facto state to willingly give up its rights.

I think it would be right of Serb voters to vote out Tadic and elect someone who actually cares about maintaining Serbia as a real country and not some EU puppet state. Tadic does not care about Serbia he cares about being liked in the EU.

let´s bet on it, Kosovo won´t declare independence.

they will find new excuses for their incapability to violate international law.

To Niall O'Doherty,

Judging by your name you should Irish and ,if so, you should probably understand better than most contributers here what it means to live under colonialism. Your country won its freedom from British rule in 1922 after a lot of suffering and a long bitter struggle. Ten years earlier Kosova had begun what it would become a long painful experience under Serbian rule. The arguments you are mentioning today against Kosova's independence are the very same that were used in British parliament in early 1920s against your country's independence. I hope in the years to come the Kosovars would not suffer from historical amnesia like you.

Kouchner: Kosovo to wait for Serbian vote

Ischinger: EU to recognize independence of Kosovo

Solana: Only Cyprus still hesitating for the independence of Kosovo

Miliband: Independence for Kosovo

George Bush: In a certain moment we'll say "Enough is enough. Kosovo is independent".

I think the UK is right about Kosovo being unique only from the perspective that it is UN administered, but fundamentally, I can't see how it differs from any other region seeking independence in Europe (this includes the Caucasus). If that is the only criteria, then yes, it is unique.

Clean Cut; Serbia will become Sudan if you dont face the facts, and get on with building Kosova and Serbia into the EU then the tension will drop when there is money the people dont really care who is giving it to them.

Isn't it bizzarre that everytime Kosovar Albanians have to wait for a Serbian political problem to be solved? Is that a modern hostage taking? Do the Kosova Albanians have to wait until the completion of the whole election process that can last for years in Serbia? First low turn out, secondly listening to complains by the parties involved, thirdly possible irregulaties, then new elections, then local elections....isnt it all a joke?
I personally am not for a non coordinated proclamation of independence but the time for further "negotiations" is UP unless Serbia recognise Kosova as an independent country.

Niall O'Doherty

You are mentioning KOSMET, what's the reasoning playing Irish. What is the logic behind it it's beyound any ones comprehesnsion.

There are no defeatists in Serbia. His statement guarantees that Tadic will be voted out of office and Nikolic will be the new president. The West is stalling for time and hoping that Russia will betray Serbia. France is an incredibly hypocritical country. They say they want independence for a muslim Kosovo but they mistreat their own muslims and refuse to allow Turkey into the EU. I don't see why Scotland doesn't fulfill its destiny and declare independence from England. They can also grab the North Sea oil wells since they are closer to Scotland than England.

"2. Texas joined America by free will when it signed the constitution---nor does anyone in Texas want to succeed.

3. You forgot: Vojvodina, Sanxhak, Cameria, Quebec, and...
(KS, 11 December 2007 02:01) "

To KS:

For your information Texas New Mexico and Caifornia used to be Mexico. The then leader of Mexico betrayed his country and sold these states to amercia.

Go to Mexico and ask the Mexicans what they whink of this.

Regardlesss of if you are American, British, French Albanian or other,.... if you steal, rip-off 15% of sovereign territory of Serbia you are all involved in criminality and mafia.
If you force more than 150,000 Serbs and over 250,000 displaced Serbian refugees to live outside their Country and replace it with something unworkable, alien and puppet-like.
AND....
If Serbian Christian Orthodox monasteries, churches and all religious sites are removed from sovereign Serbian territory and placed in a puppet-state which is alien to Christianity and alien to Serbian Homeland then we are living in a NEW AGE with a new precedent which allows self-determination for all and any group and a new age of World Separatist States.

"...namely Serbia when it "illegally" seceded from the Ottoman Empire."
Ptoleme

To let you know a historical fact: Serbia existed long before Ottoman empire and it didn't seceded from but freed up from then tired and disarrayed Ottoman empire occupation.

Peggy,

You are messing up the all historical facts of each individual country just to serve your purpose. It will not work anymore and any longer. The democratic countries are fully aware of the historical blunders made in the past where half of a nation was divided in the middle. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting any "Greater Albania" in our century but the facts are stubborn and even the preattiest woman in the world can't change it. It is absolute silly to compare Scotland's history and Kosova. As you might be more knowledgeble has there been any ethnic cleansing in Scotland in our modern time? Has NATO intervened to stop that ethnic cleansing in Scotland? Enlight us please!

As you all know UK is a World leading nation.
UK is in full agreement with other leading nations.
UK fully support Kosovos Idipendence.
24 other EU countries agree with UK.
Labour in UK has been the mos succesful leading party in UK history.
The oposition both in UK USA and other countries that liberated Kosovo, and now fully support Idipendence also fully support Kosovos Indipendence.
Kosovo was one of 8 integral parts of ex-Jugo federation (the rest were not stoped to become indipendente), and can not be compared with some regions mentioned here, plus the history, ethnic composition etc, UNIQUE indeed.
No need to comment on what I said, I know you all knew the above, but don't expect to agree with me.
Proud of our swedish FM, for talking open about how 25 EU countris have now commited to recognise Kosovo.

Well people, it is what it is.
The ball is rolling and has its own momentum now.
If somebody think that they can stop Kosovo's path to its statehood, please, by all means, act and/or react and do your best to stop it.
No problem.
If other nations can be fred from oppresion, that is just fine with me. That goes for Serbs too.I honestly hope to see a democratic Serbia one day, and its people really free.
I mean, when a bishop calls for another "holy war", the ministers for "drastic" measures, the other one for a confrontation with the whole civilsed world, what can you expect?!!!
Just ask yourselves what happened to PESCANIK and why.
And you guys expect us to stay with you???
Today's "Serpske Junacine" will be the death of democratic serbia, at least for the next 20 years.
Kosovo is unique because nobody can reverse this procces anymore. If you think that Russians and Chinese can stop it, you guys are so wrong. Very soon they will have a lot bigger fish to fry and worry about.
But on the other hand, it is not up to me to teach you guys to think with your own head.
No disrespect to anyone on this site or its posters. I hope that all of you, Albanians and Serbs get what you want (I am assuming it is peace you want).
No???

Most of the comments about other seperatist movements are illogical. Kosovo has a vast majority of its population in favour of independence.

People keep mentioning Scotland. At the last election seperatist parties got 35%. That is not a majority, but it is accepted that the UK government will accept independence if/when a referendum approves such a thing, but there is no chance a referendum would say yes at the moment. The same is true of N Ireland, a majority of the population still favour the union, as shown by the make-up of the Stormont parliament.

Texas has almost no one calling for independence of separatioon. The Basque country has a majority in favour of autonomy not independence.

Srpska, Kurdistan, Northern Cyprus, Transdniestra, and South Ossetia are possible exceptions and if a plebiscite showed a majority in favour of independence it should be resected. That is the principle of SELF DETERMINATION whch is respected by the UN. It is why Montenegro, and East Timor are now independent.

For this reason the least worst solution to Kosovo is partition. Each municipality should be asked to vote in a free and fair election (supervised by the international community and peace keepers) to decide their fate. Those municipalities that want to stay with Serbia should, and the others become part of kosovo.

I think that Serbia should recognizes independence of Texas, Baskia, North Ireland, Scotland, Kurdistan, Sicily, .......

What about that?
(Dragisa, 10 December 2007 20:42)


1. No one cares what Serbia thinks, why would anyone care who Serbia recognizes and whom Serbia doesn't?

2. Texas joined America by free will when it signed the constitution---nor does anyone in Texas want to succeed.

3. You forgot: Vojvodina, Sanxhak, Cameria, Quebec, and...

GSP,

After our intervention in 1999 I don't expect you to like us. Where did you see that criminals like policemen or authorities of justice? Your dislike just confirms that we acted in a just missionary way. To paraphrase the French "noblesse oblige" expression I would say that the might of my country dictates a certain moral responsibility: intervene anywhere in the world against oppressors and bullies, violators of human rights.
And about my tax dollars: I pay a considerable amount. I am just sorry not be able to specify that all that amount should go to the benefit of the K-Albanians.

then Kosovo might wait for a long time, since the elections in Serbia are a long process; it can take an indefinite period of time now that we see what Kouchner's and EU intentions are; one get's a bit tired of the enraged reactions from the 'warring sides'; given the situation, the Albanians and Serbs should now concentrate their comments on a more likely scenario: unilaterally independent Kosovo without a prospect of becoming a UN member(1) amputated Serbia, physically in Europe, but excluded from it, due to serious misunderstandings resulting from the Kosovo situation(2)...

Of course Kosova is an unique case. The oppression of the kind that Albanians have been under Serbia has no parallel in Europe, but only in Africa. Serbia has been acting like the Sudan of Europe for the last 20 years. What do you expect?

*Pyrros
First Tony Blair, now Brown. I think your hearing echos of ALL EU countries recognising Kosova/o the newest state in the world.
I think Kostunica should aplay for a job in Chechenia now, since he has done great job promoting Kosovas Independens.

pyros

serbs always have problems with the ones that are in duty, when they retire they become OK, but in duty they are bad.
really wiered.

Clean Cut

Can B92 please take some sort of responsibility and remove his comment above since it is completely unfounded and eternally hipocritical.

Who formed a terrorist organistation to remove all non-Albanians?
Who took to the streets en masse to destroy all evidense of Serbian civilisation?

Serbia has done nothing in Kosovo during SFRJ to solve the Albanian problem there that is why we are in this mess.

For anyone reading his comment please relise that there is absultely nothing true about it and the comparison is quite comical, not to mention farcical.

Kieran,

The US and EU will pay. I am glad that my tax dollars will be spent on a good, just cause...helping a new country, who's people suffered so much.
And don't be a scooge with your tax euros. Specially the Irish should start to give after receiving billions and billions from the EU already before the ascension.

Hey UK, please save your image and stop repeating the same paraphony on your damaged cd record of your foreign policy.

UK people are great, UK retired officials are great.
The only problem is with officials on duty.
Do i smell smth wierd?

@ CleanCunt:

Hey man you are honestly becoming a broken record!

To clean cut.

Can you please tell me what oppression you are talking about? Because it is Serbs that were ethnically clensed from their homeland by albanians; with backing of illegal nato aggression.

What precedent? Is Kosovo really inventing such a thing as independence or is it following the precedent of self-determination?
To think that Kosovo will set such a thing as an "independence precedent" is ludicrous and idiotic. There have been quite a few countries in the world who have set such independence precedents, namely Serbia when it "illegally" seceded from the Ottoman Empire.

Lets be ration and look at the facts. Kosovo is about 90% ethnic Albanian in population who virtually demand self-determination. Kosovo was a veto-wielding constituent part of Yugoslavia, with greater claim to independence than Montenegro who has a sizable Serbian minority and only runs on a minority-majority, with a population almost 1/4 to that of Kosovo.
Autonomy cannot be a realistic approach considering how Serbia revoked it arbitrarily and there are no assurances of it being done again. Furthermore, you cannot make a now de facto state to willingly give up its rights.

I agree with Clean Cut,we should not ignore what Milosevic did in other parts of former Yugoslavia.It is shame how people forget like nothing happened.
Miliband is doing the right thing with telling EU that no reapiting of 1990 are allowed in Europe.
Serbia should let Kosovo to manage itself,and Serbia go forward EU and get rid of the old myths.

Serbia has done nothing in Kosovo during SFRJ to solve the Albanian problem there that is why we are in this mess.

For anyone reading his comment please relise that there is absultely nothing true about it and the comparison is quite comical, not to mention farcical.
(Vuk, 10 December 2007 13:12)

I wish B92 would let me post footage of Srebrenica (recorded by the Serbs). I'm sure you would love to see Bosnians lined up and shot in the head point blank with a Ak-47.

B92, when are you going to enforce your policy of members not posting multiple times with different names? This needs to stop.

To Niall O'Doherty,

Judging by your name you should Irish and ,if so, you should probably understand better than most contributers here what it means to live under colonialism. Your country won its freedom from British rule in 1922 after a lot of suffering and a long bitter struggle. Ten years earlier Kosova had begun what it would become a long painful experience under Serbian rule. The arguments you are mentioning today against Kosova's independence are the very same that were used in British parliament in early 1920s against your country's independence. I hope in the years to come the Kosovars would not suffer from historical amnesia like you.

Pyrros, I agree with you. They are just an embarrassment, as are most of the media nowadays. I'm not even sure if the current crop of officials will be of interest when they retire.

It used to be that politicians in the UK could speak knowledgably off-the-cuff, but from Blair onwards everything is scripted and approved and the officials are now just pen pushers and public speakers.

I thought under Gordon Brown things may improve but it's not looking good.

There are a few good people but they will never be allowed up front.

Yes kosovo is a completely unique case.... a terrorist leader now runs the country...
what about srpska repbulika in bosnia? and how is that not different? i must also stress that UN soldiers were at hand in bosnia.... want to explain that? Kosovo is by no means a unique case.

Of course Kosova is an unique case. The oppression of the kind that Albanians have been under Serbia has no parallel in Europe, but only in Africa. Serbia has been acting like the Sudan of Europe for the last 20 years. What do you expect? (Clean Cut, 10 December 2007 11:58)

We expect the same right for Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia. Kosovo Albanians lost about 1% of the population during the Milosevic terror, while the Serbs of Bosnia and Croatia lost 15% due to Ustasha terror. They do not have to be 15 times more "unique," they should just be treated equally as Kosovo Albanians.

Clean Cut; Serbia will become Sudan if you dont face the facts, and get on with building Kosova and Serbia into the EU then the tension will drop when there is money the people dont really care who is giving it to them.

Kosovo is unique.
Northern Ireland is unique.
Basque region is unique.
Moldova is unique .....
All teritorial disputes are complicated and that's why they are difficult to solve, so by definition each case is unique. They will of course all form points of reference for future disputes.
What the Foreign Secretary really means is, that "we have made up our mind and we're not going to change it". The final outcome for Kosovo was settled by Milosevic's criminal actions. He gave Kosovo away, just to stay in power a little longer. As such he is the greatest Anti-Serb of all time, not Del Ponte, Christiana Amanpour, Albright, Clinton, Blair or any of the other people so aften accused here.

Nial O'Doherty:
I understand your point but frankly why would you expect any of us Albanians to care about such academic concerns?
To us our case is unique by virtue of involving us and that is enough.
But even if you look at it from an international point of view I cannot think of any other such situation in the world where the International Community intervened to save a people, let them live for years and years under de facto independence, albeit with supervision under a resolution which did include provisions (albeit open to interpretation) on a solution of the status issue in the future, and then asked them to go back to being ruled by their former nemesis?
If you can think of any such cases please let me know.
And if you look at it from a practical point of view, what people in the world would accept such a deal without a fight? For us Albanians it would be tantamount to being invaded all over again.

why B92 prints clean Cuts comment i have no idea, Unique is Darfur, over a million people dead or displaced. Now that is a unique case 10,000 versus a million? Tibet, South Georgia in the former Russian Repbulic, Basque in Spain. So once this is done independence then here comes North Kosovo Serbs are majority we want to succeed. Western Macedonia, majority albanian, Northern Greece, Southern Montenegro the list goes on Kosovo is the stepping stone and the EU is on it's on with this on the US is playing in Iraq and Afgainstan. US Def Minister has said if the Euro does not contribute to Afganistan the US is out of Kosovo. A big stew of mudd being stirred and the EU will be running for cover. I have not any inflammatory post so it the truth.

I think that Serbia should recognizes independence of Texas, Baskia, North Ireland, Scotland, Kurdistan, Sicily, .......

What about that?

Isn't it bizzarre that everytime Kosovar Albanians have to wait for a Serbian political problem to be solved? Is that a modern hostage taking? Do the Kosova Albanians have to wait until the completion of the whole election process that can last for years in Serbia? First low turn out, secondly listening to complains by the parties involved, thirdly possible irregulaties, then new elections, then local elections....isnt it all a joke?
I personally am not for a non coordinated proclamation of independence but the time for further "negotiations" is UP unless Serbia recognise Kosova as an independent country.

Niall O'Doherty

You are mentioning KOSMET, what's the reasoning playing Irish. What is the logic behind it it's beyound any ones comprehesnsion.

Kouchner: Kosovo to wait for Serbian vote

Ischinger: EU to recognize independence of Kosovo

Solana: Only Cyprus still hesitating for the independence of Kosovo

Miliband: Independence for Kosovo

George Bush: In a certain moment we'll say "Enough is enough. Kosovo is independent".

Peggy,

You are messing up the all historical facts of each individual country just to serve your purpose. It will not work anymore and any longer. The democratic countries are fully aware of the historical blunders made in the past where half of a nation was divided in the middle. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting any "Greater Albania" in our century but the facts are stubborn and even the preattiest woman in the world can't change it. It is absolute silly to compare Scotland's history and Kosova. As you might be more knowledgeble has there been any ethnic cleansing in Scotland in our modern time? Has NATO intervened to stop that ethnic cleansing in Scotland? Enlight us please!

As you all know UK is a World leading nation.
UK is in full agreement with other leading nations.
UK fully support Kosovos Idipendence.
24 other EU countries agree with UK.
Labour in UK has been the mos succesful leading party in UK history.
The oposition both in UK USA and other countries that liberated Kosovo, and now fully support Idipendence also fully support Kosovos Indipendence.
Kosovo was one of 8 integral parts of ex-Jugo federation (the rest were not stoped to become indipendente), and can not be compared with some regions mentioned here, plus the history, ethnic composition etc, UNIQUE indeed.
No need to comment on what I said, I know you all knew the above, but don't expect to agree with me.
Proud of our swedish FM, for talking open about how 25 EU countris have now commited to recognise Kosovo.

In which case Mr Miliband when you suggest the EU path why are you trying to artificially create a secessionist entity against the will of the Soverign and UN recognised State and not promoting reconcilation and trust building that can forge a way forward to a Integral Serbia joining the EU ?

Is he that so naive to think Serbia forcefully partitioned will wish to be part of a EU that aided and abetted in its partition ?

Tadic must clarify to this Blairite that forcefull partition of Serbia will be the deathbed of Serbia's EU accession ! In which case Miliband needs to do some serious reflection on his dire and lacking analysis.

We should not underestimate the instability of the situation,” he added.

Mr Minister You should not underestimate other ethnic groups or nations that has aspiration towards seceding. Lets see how Kosovo is going to be unique.I am looking forward!!! Basque Minister is already waiting for Kosovo's outcome.

And I wish to stress:
Basqia is unique case! ETA waged campaign for independance that is far cleaner then one launched by KLA, and I don't see any reason that it should be considered terrorist organization any more.
Besides.
"this is a completely unique case. Kosovo is a province administered by the UN and is located within a country which states that it wants to be a part of Europe,” Miliband said."

Basqia is not administered by UN , and there is no UN resolution explicitly stating that it's part of Spain. Reason more to recognize it. Furthermore, it's located within the country that is already part of Europe.
Basqia is unique and should be recognized now.

Wrong Mr. Miliband. In the face of law the word “uniqueness” does not exists. Unique cases create precedents. This is a danger way of thinking and acting.
My wife family has been forced to leave Kosovo and Metohija under pressure of Albanian terror. They left all of their belongings behind. If somebody force you to leave your home, land and everything your family owned through generation you will not be so easy in declarations of “unique ceases”. That’s cheep talking. I know that your government is not backing you with compensation ready for hundreds of thousand of Serbs (billion of pounds) in relation to the land ownerships and suffering they had to pass through because of its own wrong policy. Maybe you know more? I do not think so. What is solution in relation to the church land ownership where “compensation” has other meanings than just” money”? Maybe the “other way around” solution should be better; if you can persuade your government to pay relocation for all Albanians back to country where they come from originally.
My perception is that Serbs are too smart to allow themselves to accept your “wisdom”.
I’ll give you a tip Mr. Miliband. If you wish independence for Kosovo i Metohija you have to act unlawfully to be able to bypass legal implications of UN Resoluion 1244. That’s what your government is committed to, isn’t Mr. Miliband?

Kosovo is about as unique as Clinton is an 'honest man'. In other words, it's not unique at all. There are dozens of separatist movements watching this situation very closely who are ready to pounce.
As for clean cut's ridiculous comparison to Sudan, that is laughable. Do you even know what is going on in Sudan or did someone tell you to repeat that statement? In Sudan Muslims are persecuting Christians, which is exactly what is going on in Kosovo. Another attempt by albanians to turn the victims into the aggressors, to turn their lies into the truth, and to turn black into white.

Wishful thinking Minister!

well, every individual person with a milligram of brain within the head will know that Kosovo would of course be a precedent... I am surprised they still try to fool someone with outdated phrases...

if those Miliband´s and Co. are repeating that nonsense all along, they really must be very desperate.

good. truly good.

Kosovo certainly is a unique case. You steal 15% of a sovreign nation's territory and establish a puppet NATO state in its place. Ingenius, illegal and ultimately unworkable. I almost feel sorry for these "kosovars",believing that Uncle sam,the EU,and the Brits actually care about them. By the way,who is going to pay for this new little European nation?

I think it would be right of Serb voters to vote out Tadic and elect someone who actually cares about maintaining Serbia as a real country and not some EU puppet state. Tadic does not care about Serbia he cares about being liked in the EU.

"Meanwhile his British counterpart, Foreign Secretary David Miliband says Kosovo will not serve as an inspiration to separatists around the world.

“Many countries are afraid that Kosovo can be a model for separatist movements which seek independence. I wish to stress – this is a completely unique case. Kosovo is a province administered by the UN and is located within a country which states that it wants to be a part of Europe,” Miliband said.

He told a Polish daily that he guarantees that Kosovo will not set a precedent, adding that the current situation would not be desired by any European country."

Will not serve as an inspiration to separatists? What tosh! Didn't the Basque official just viewed Kosovo's possible independence as a POSITIVE precedent??? And I have not yet included Ossetia, Kurdistan , Turkish Cyprus, Macedonian Albanians, Flemings of Belgium ..... and dare I include SCOTLAND (and even Wales and the Catholics of N. Ireland) before I type the etc?

He has the audacity to guarantee something that is obviously untenable to anyone with common sense ..... I mean, everyone knows that words are cheap and easy to utter .... didn't the Brit
assured the marsh Arabs that their troops will protect them, and then suddenly withdraw while the insurgents were still running rings around them in Basra? In much the same way that London also caved in to Beijing ealier after boasting to the Hongkongers that the UK would not give up their colony to the Chinese.

Thanks but no thanks Mr Miliband!

Scotland now wants its Independence from the UK but London is not prepared to give it to them claiming that Kosovo is unique,... What a double standard and a loud of nonsense. See article link >> http://www.theherald.co.uk/mostpopular.var.1891995.mostviewed.the_fear_of_scottish_independence_that_unites_historic_enemies.php

The UK has started a wildfire problem for themselves at home and if they think they can put the fire out by simply saying that Kosovo is unique then they are fooling themselves. I have to wonder if all this is truly worth it just to make the USA happy? Where has England's pride gone? They have been reduced to nothing more than just a US side kick ever since the end of World War 2. They don't owe the US anything and in fact is they should be thankful to the Russians who lost over 1 Million soldiers too take down Berlin in 1945.

" “Many countries are afraid that Kosovo can be a model for separatist movements which seek independence. I wish to stress – this is a completely unique case. Kosovo is a province administered by the UN and is located within a country which states that it wants to be a part of Europe,” Miliband said."

Within one statement Miliband made two very important mistakes:

1. Serbia is European. Period. How Miliband frames Serbia's intention of joining the EU shows Miliband's POV of UK's colonial thinking. What demarcates European to the UK elite is political and not cultural. I dare even go further and say that that recipe for Europeanization is a prime cause of Balkanization.

2. The uniqueness of attempted independence simply by the fact that it is mandated by resolution 1244 which clearly defines Serbia's overall sovereignty is a contradiction in terms. The uniqueness case only strengthens 1244, it does not undermine it.

As soon as these foolish European countreis accept Kosovo as independent then Russia, Greece, Cyprus and Serbia should start recognizing all the other separatists as well.
There is nothing to stop them. Anyone can recognize or not recognize any section of land as they please.

First to go should be Scotland with full blessing of Russia and the others. Let's see how England likes this. Europe is going to go up in flames again courtesy of American puppets.

It's time people of Europe woke up and threw out their corrupt and spineless governments, or suffer the consequences.

Doesn England really think they can just simply say "you are independent now" and nobody is going to do the same to them? Do they think that US is going to fight a war for them? No, the mess will be theirs to clean up and thiers alone.

Canadian:
"Where has English pride gone" LAUGH !!
Let me tell you the UK is now full of down and outs,parsites, and drug pushers.There is no law and order as such,and the prisons are full to bursting point.
This guy Milliband didn't want the 2 MP'S to go to Sudan to get that teacher released for calling that teddy Mohhamid.That sums up
English pride. So what chance have the serbs got,if he has any say in Kosovo status.
If the domino effect should start, i just hope the EU Countries who begun this gets as much egg on their faces as possible.

let´s bet on it, Kosovo won´t declare independence.

they will find new excuses for their incapability to violate international law.

Regardlesss of if you are American, British, French Albanian or other,.... if you steal, rip-off 15% of sovereign territory of Serbia you are all involved in criminality and mafia.
If you force more than 150,000 Serbs and over 250,000 displaced Serbian refugees to live outside their Country and replace it with something unworkable, alien and puppet-like.
AND....
If Serbian Christian Orthodox monasteries, churches and all religious sites are removed from sovereign Serbian territory and placed in a puppet-state which is alien to Christianity and alien to Serbian Homeland then we are living in a NEW AGE with a new precedent which allows self-determination for all and any group and a new age of World Separatist States.

"...namely Serbia when it "illegally" seceded from the Ottoman Empire."
Ptoleme

To let you know a historical fact: Serbia existed long before Ottoman empire and it didn't seceded from but freed up from then tired and disarrayed Ottoman empire occupation.

I think that Serbia should recognizes independence of Texas, Baskia, North Ireland, Scotland, Kurdistan, Sicily, .......

What about that?
(Dragisa, 10 December 2007 20:42)


1. No one cares what Serbia thinks, why would anyone care who Serbia recognizes and whom Serbia doesn't?

2. Texas joined America by free will when it signed the constitution---nor does anyone in Texas want to succeed.

3. You forgot: Vojvodina, Sanxhak, Cameria, Quebec, and...

GSP,

After our intervention in 1999 I don't expect you to like us. Where did you see that criminals like policemen or authorities of justice? Your dislike just confirms that we acted in a just missionary way. To paraphrase the French "noblesse oblige" expression I would say that the might of my country dictates a certain moral responsibility: intervene anywhere in the world against oppressors and bullies, violators of human rights.
And about my tax dollars: I pay a considerable amount. I am just sorry not be able to specify that all that amount should go to the benefit of the K-Albanians.

Well people, it is what it is.
The ball is rolling and has its own momentum now.
If somebody think that they can stop Kosovo's path to its statehood, please, by all means, act and/or react and do your best to stop it.
No problem.
If other nations can be fred from oppresion, that is just fine with me. That goes for Serbs too.I honestly hope to see a democratic Serbia one day, and its people really free.
I mean, when a bishop calls for another "holy war", the ministers for "drastic" measures, the other one for a confrontation with the whole civilsed world, what can you expect?!!!
Just ask yourselves what happened to PESCANIK and why.
And you guys expect us to stay with you???
Today's "Serpske Junacine" will be the death of democratic serbia, at least for the next 20 years.
Kosovo is unique because nobody can reverse this procces anymore. If you think that Russians and Chinese can stop it, you guys are so wrong. Very soon they will have a lot bigger fish to fry and worry about.
But on the other hand, it is not up to me to teach you guys to think with your own head.
No disrespect to anyone on this site or its posters. I hope that all of you, Albanians and Serbs get what you want (I am assuming it is peace you want).
No???

There are no defeatists in Serbia. His statement guarantees that Tadic will be voted out of office and Nikolic will be the new president. The West is stalling for time and hoping that Russia will betray Serbia. France is an incredibly hypocritical country. They say they want independence for a muslim Kosovo but they mistreat their own muslims and refuse to allow Turkey into the EU. I don't see why Scotland doesn't fulfill its destiny and declare independence from England. They can also grab the North Sea oil wells since they are closer to Scotland than England.

"2. Texas joined America by free will when it signed the constitution---nor does anyone in Texas want to succeed.

3. You forgot: Vojvodina, Sanxhak, Cameria, Quebec, and...
(KS, 11 December 2007 02:01) "

To KS:

For your information Texas New Mexico and Caifornia used to be Mexico. The then leader of Mexico betrayed his country and sold these states to amercia.

Go to Mexico and ask the Mexicans what they whink of this.

I think the UK is right about Kosovo being unique only from the perspective that it is UN administered, but fundamentally, I can't see how it differs from any other region seeking independence in Europe (this includes the Caucasus). If that is the only criteria, then yes, it is unique.

erhm.. "unique case" ...
Basque minister – Kosovo positive precedent

Clean Cut, in a way you are right. There are similarities between Kosovo and Sudan (although the situation in Sudan is much worse; why does the West not intervene?). However, for the past eight years Serbia has had no authority over Kosovo and could therefore not oppress K-Albanians. On the other hand, during this period many K-Serbs were driven out of Kosovo. So who have been the oppressed: the K-Albanians or the K-Serbs?

I have yet to be convinced as to why Kosmet is a unique case for independence. If you are to apply the 'sui generis' case to Kosmet then surely why do you deny whole nations the right of self determination - Palestinians, Basque, Tibetans, West Papuans, Tamils, Ossetians, Scots, Banda Aceh, Abkhazians, ethnic Russians in Baltics and Ukraine, Bosnian Serbs, etc. Surely they have a genuine case for self determination...

or is it simply to what suits the US geo political agenda. If so then Princip's tangled web could be a one that we could yet weave.

What is realy "uniqe" is trying to steal Serbian land under the pretense of fallowing the world order and trying to lobby even Polish population.
Hitler tried to do that to Poland and it did not work.
So if this so called politicians do care about peace and order thay would try something-like maybe stop this noncense.

He was asked why he supports the illegal seperation
that it will cause problems
and the Albanian government mafia ties and all he could say is “it is not mafia.” This clearly shows that he knows all these things and is unwilling to tell the truth.The French cannot even give a good reason why they support taking Kosovo.The only motivation seems to be towing the US line.France and Serbija have been friends through two wars seems petty for them to break that freindship over something that does not even serve any superficial interest.

The US and EU will pay. I am glad that my tax dollars will be spent on a good, just cause...helping a new country, who's people suffered so much.
And don't be a scooge with your tax euros. Specially the Irish should start to give after receiving billions and billions from the EU already before the ascension.
(Joe, 10 December 2007 16:25)

Are you equally as proud of your disgrace in Iraq? OR better yet, how your tax dollars (as you posted "dollars") are being used to help the slaughter of the US's children?

When you're able to post experiences & valid situations where your commentaries are backed by truth, rather than provacation, then you're comments are valid.

To date, there are a number of us that know you're a just a catalyst blowing hot air.

then Kosovo might wait for a long time, since the elections in Serbia are a long process; it can take an indefinite period of time now that we see what Kouchner's and EU intentions are; one get's a bit tired of the enraged reactions from the 'warring sides'; given the situation, the Albanians and Serbs should now concentrate their comments on a more likely scenario: unilaterally independent Kosovo without a prospect of becoming a UN member(1) amputated Serbia, physically in Europe, but excluded from it, due to serious misunderstandings resulting from the Kosovo situation(2)...

Most of the comments about other seperatist movements are illogical. Kosovo has a vast majority of its population in favour of independence.

People keep mentioning Scotland. At the last election seperatist parties got 35%. That is not a majority, but it is accepted that the UK government will accept independence if/when a referendum approves such a thing, but there is no chance a referendum would say yes at the moment. The same is true of N Ireland, a majority of the population still favour the union, as shown by the make-up of the Stormont parliament.

Texas has almost no one calling for independence of separatioon. The Basque country has a majority in favour of autonomy not independence.

Srpska, Kurdistan, Northern Cyprus, Transdniestra, and South Ossetia are possible exceptions and if a plebiscite showed a majority in favour of independence it should be resected. That is the principle of SELF DETERMINATION whch is respected by the UN. It is why Montenegro, and East Timor are now independent.

For this reason the least worst solution to Kosovo is partition. Each municipality should be asked to vote in a free and fair election (supervised by the international community and peace keepers) to decide their fate. Those municipalities that want to stay with Serbia should, and the others become part of kosovo.