President voices support for B92 in wake of threats

Victor:

1) You routinely come on these boards and spout anti-Serb nonsense on a _Serbian_ website; is it any wonder they're not keen on publishing your views sometimes?

2) You're not the press. B92 are. We're talking about B92's editorial freedom under the Serbian constitution in this news article, not your freedom of speech as a ...

3) ... Canadian. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to Canadians and landed immigrants _in Canada_, not to disgruntled anti-Serb Canadians posting on Serb websites.

In short, this is B92's website. They pay for the infrastructure. They pay for the bandwidth. They pay for their staff, both editorial and otherwise. It's their property, and if they don't feel like sharing your views with the rest of us, it is both their right and prerogative, whereas your ability to post on same is a privilege, not a right. Just because it's the internet does not afford you brand new trans-national rights.

A little perspective, please.

One only needs to read B92’s instructions to see that they are very lenient in allowing comments to be posted on their site. Some contributors should take the time to reread the rules.
Including, but not limited to… “B92 maintains the right to choose which comments to publish, as well as the right to edit their contents. Comments which include insults, indecencies, racial or national hate messages and intolerance of any kind will not be published. Hateful words are not allowed on B92’s site. Comments written in a style lacking the basic elements of grammar will not be published.”

There are rules in every civilized society.
Take responsibility for your own chosen behavior instead of blaming B92.

Just go ahead b92. You have my support and I am sure there is a great support from Serbian citizens. Velja Ilic and his party is disgrace for Serbia.

I had respect for B92. Notice the verb: I had! This week, the moderators have used against me a censorship which is unworthy of freedom of speech.

B-92 is doing a grand job bearing in mind difficult set of circumstances. Free press is an important prerequisite for free thinking everywhere but in Serbia and Balkans in general this acquires a specific significance. As the semi-democratic regimes struggle with remit of what can be permissible for public consumption, free media engages standardized thinking and enables individuals to articulate personal views about politics. We need more discordant voices to promote a real debate between our people and B-92 has been a valuable tool on that. Not perfect but great nonetheless.
Well done B-92.

@ Victor. I wonder why??

i think this is wiered and crazy,

I absolutely agree with Victor. say no more since B92 won't publish it anyway.
as usual.

B92 can censor my contribution but they cannot stop KOSOVO'S INDEPENDENCe

I still hold deep respect for those at B92 who put their very lives on the line during the Milosevic years in order to bring a rational voice to the people of Belgrade.

Clearly threats hold no influence over the brave people of B92.

However, I will add to what Victor and Noel have said.

I am greatly disappointed in the editorial decisions taken by the moderators on this site. They seem to have forgotten what its like to be dissidents and do seem to be engaging in propaganda and silencing intelligent arguments that do not agree with their policies.

Yes PD, they most certainly do have the right to censor people however they choose, but they should be more honest about why they do it and not make repeated claims that their censorship is never political in nature.

I’ve been censored for making an intelligent argument that communism in itself is not inherently evil as a system, merely abused by petty dictators who would have flourished under just about any political system.

I’ve been censored for trying to make counter arguments against those who claimed Montenegrins hate Serbs (Which of course was extremely offensive to me and made my blood just boil). I’m Montenegrin and supported Independence, yet they accused me of denying my own people of existing. They allow me to talk of the ethnic relationship between Montenegrins and Albanians, but talking about the relationship of Montenegrins to Serbs is somehow a no-no. They need to remember that just because a Nationalist has abused a political theory in the past it does not mean that theory or idea absolutely has to be nationalistic in all its aspects.

I’ll admit most of the things I say are highly controversial but it is NEVER my intention to be offensive to any particular group, race, creed or religion. I’m still trying to figure out how I could possibly be racist against myself?!?!?!?! Yes, I’m more critical towards my own Country, the US, and my own ethnicity, Serbian Orthodox, but I feel your own race and country are what you should be allowed to be critical of first and foremost before you criticize someone else.

I truly wish B92 would be as critical of Western regimes as they had been towards the Milosevic regime. Far too often when the Opposition comes to power, they become just as corrupt as the system they’ve replaced. Being a dissident means disagreeing with the powers that be, no matter who they are (Right now that's you B92). In order for a democracy to truly function, all thoughts, ideas and customs must be questioned, criticized and torn apart. Nothing should be Taboo as a subject as long as its intelligently discussed.

I can only hope that B92 retains their critical edge and continues to be a voice for those oppressed and does not merely become a political mouth piece for the Pro-West agenda.

I too have had posts denied because of a certain topic three republics avoid, which the world came to the rescue to the fourth repbulic.

As for the parallel on this issue and another one regrading B92... show me the money then I'll explain all the way back to 1996.

Good bye to all from Canada,


Slavko

Post Script: my Godfather was a WWII teenaged Chetnik! He didn't have the responsibility of being a father or husband during the war; therefore, I was told of firsthand events, not reports.

Well, B92 is learning as it plods along but I say congratulations to the Editors for standing up to intimidation and taking solid legal action against those specific people/person who makes such threats. It's high time Serbian independent journalists/media begin acting like what the original intent was for their creation: the '4 Estate' or branch of govt that checks up on the rest of the other branches--Executive/Parliament/Judicial branches. Kudos to B92 and may the FORCE be with You!!

i will try to word this carefully... when i read yr comments, victor, i usually support them, and surely yr right to speak them. and then when we consider what is published from the other side! it is just spine-tingling... many of my comments are also "overlooked." this is the thing: we each and all, in our own way, must always struggle for freedom, for democracy, for respect. even in the free-wheeling US, people must struggle for freedom and respect, for basic human rights, this is nothing new. and i'm sure in canada, too. in the ex-YU it is all the harder, since there is a less-than-deep history of democracy and respect for human rights. now we are locked in a struggle for kosovo/a independence; a few short years ago we were locked in a struggle for bosnia's survival, and thAt battle is far from over... inside serbia there are many powerful anti-democratic forces, dangerous ones, desperate ones. b-92 and their allies are up against a lot, perhaps more than we can imagine, and i respect that; they are not the enemy, as imperfect as they are for us.

as for the censorship issue, it has surfaced a number of times, and i do hope that posters continue to address it. many of us feel that the rules are not played out equitably, to say the least. cetrtainly if those voices on the other side are printed, day after day after day, then we have at least the RIght to be heard. do others agree?

happy hanukkah! from san francisco

Maybe if B92 would stop spreading western propaganda (like W. Montgomery), people would not be so hostile toward it.

>>B92 will not allow threats to influence our editorial policy. The company will therefore file criminal complaints with the appropriate prosecution office suggesting start of proceedings against Jovanović.

Both thumbs up for B92! Keep on the good work!

Victor I guess you know my views on Kosova's independence but this is not the proper thread to discuss them. The issue here is free press and intimidation of one of the most professional press outlets in the whole Balkan region. Even if one were not to agree with the editorial line of B92 that is not justification for issuing threats of the kind this New Serbia guy has done. That simply does not belong in a democracy and the guy should pay a price for his irresponsible and criminal threats. I congratulate President Tadic for his support and I want to lend B92 my full support too albeit I can only do this through my posting. At least I hope it will serve as an encouragement for B92 to keep up its good work.

B92 is fair and balanced, and threats to B92 are threats to Serbia itself. If politicians do not like the news, they should change it by changing their actions and words, and not trying to suppress or control the news organisations.

The thing to remember is that Serbia isn't just Belgrade.
You may have a few moderates in the capital but has anyone ever thought what it's like out in the sticks? Usually low pay, no future prospects, social isolation. All these components add up to creating right- winged fascist nationalists.
Raise societies standards and they will go away. Look at Northern Ireland as an example.

The real concern, for those of us that care about the media, is increasing commercialisation which can lead to a decrease in quality.

I'm glad that B92 cut the occasional extreme view. Its obvious that some people here are not mature enough to express their views in the proper manner. Its also obvious that some people cannot help but 'rise to the occasion' when provoked.

Those kids should go to one of those sad forums where people get off on insulting one another.

On the issue - B92 saw off Milosevic and Seselj was powerless to stop them. What makes Ilic and his tiny party think they can have any impact?

At least in Serbia the President is taking the free media's side, but in Albania we have sth worse, the prime minister has attempted several times to shut down Top Channel, a young private independent media, the largest one in the country. They fined Top Channel millions of Euros in fees, they tried to move it from its main bulidings, they removed its antennas outside of Tirana, etc etc. People were protesting because they were left only with Montenegrin and GReek channels to watch. The pressure stopped after complaints from the US officials and intl. media organizations. The outcome were big minus points for the prime minister Berisha(who in 97 beat up journalists and burned the quarters of the best newspaper in the country, Koha Jone, Our Times).

i think this is wiered and crazy,

I had respect for B92. Notice the verb: I had! This week, the moderators have used against me a censorship which is unworthy of freedom of speech.

I absolutely agree with Victor. say no more since B92 won't publish it anyway.
as usual.

B92 can censor my contribution but they cannot stop KOSOVO'S INDEPENDENCe

Just go ahead b92. You have my support and I am sure there is a great support from Serbian citizens. Velja Ilic and his party is disgrace for Serbia.

B-92 is doing a grand job bearing in mind difficult set of circumstances. Free press is an important prerequisite for free thinking everywhere but in Serbia and Balkans in general this acquires a specific significance. As the semi-democratic regimes struggle with remit of what can be permissible for public consumption, free media engages standardized thinking and enables individuals to articulate personal views about politics. We need more discordant voices to promote a real debate between our people and B-92 has been a valuable tool on that. Not perfect but great nonetheless.
Well done B-92.

>>B92 will not allow threats to influence our editorial policy. The company will therefore file criminal complaints with the appropriate prosecution office suggesting start of proceedings against Jovanović.

Victor:

1) You routinely come on these boards and spout anti-Serb nonsense on a _Serbian_ website; is it any wonder they're not keen on publishing your views sometimes?

2) You're not the press. B92 are. We're talking about B92's editorial freedom under the Serbian constitution in this news article, not your freedom of speech as a ...

3) ... Canadian. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to Canadians and landed immigrants _in Canada_, not to disgruntled anti-Serb Canadians posting on Serb websites.

In short, this is B92's website. They pay for the infrastructure. They pay for the bandwidth. They pay for their staff, both editorial and otherwise. It's their property, and if they don't feel like sharing your views with the rest of us, it is both their right and prerogative, whereas your ability to post on same is a privilege, not a right. Just because it's the internet does not afford you brand new trans-national rights.

A little perspective, please.

Well, B92 is learning as it plods along but I say congratulations to the Editors for standing up to intimidation and taking solid legal action against those specific people/person who makes such threats. It's high time Serbian independent journalists/media begin acting like what the original intent was for their creation: the '4 Estate' or branch of govt that checks up on the rest of the other branches--Executive/Parliament/Judicial branches. Kudos to B92 and may the FORCE be with You!!

I still hold deep respect for those at B92 who put their very lives on the line during the Milosevic years in order to bring a rational voice to the people of Belgrade.

Clearly threats hold no influence over the brave people of B92.

However, I will add to what Victor and Noel have said.

I am greatly disappointed in the editorial decisions taken by the moderators on this site. They seem to have forgotten what its like to be dissidents and do seem to be engaging in propaganda and silencing intelligent arguments that do not agree with their policies.

Yes PD, they most certainly do have the right to censor people however they choose, but they should be more honest about why they do it and not make repeated claims that their censorship is never political in nature.

I’ve been censored for making an intelligent argument that communism in itself is not inherently evil as a system, merely abused by petty dictators who would have flourished under just about any political system.

I’ve been censored for trying to make counter arguments against those who claimed Montenegrins hate Serbs (Which of course was extremely offensive to me and made my blood just boil). I’m Montenegrin and supported Independence, yet they accused me of denying my own people of existing. They allow me to talk of the ethnic relationship between Montenegrins and Albanians, but talking about the relationship of Montenegrins to Serbs is somehow a no-no. They need to remember that just because a Nationalist has abused a political theory in the past it does not mean that theory or idea absolutely has to be nationalistic in all its aspects.

I’ll admit most of the things I say are highly controversial but it is NEVER my intention to be offensive to any particular group, race, creed or religion. I’m still trying to figure out how I could possibly be racist against myself?!?!?!?! Yes, I’m more critical towards my own Country, the US, and my own ethnicity, Serbian Orthodox, but I feel your own race and country are what you should be allowed to be critical of first and foremost before you criticize someone else.

I truly wish B92 would be as critical of Western regimes as they had been towards the Milosevic regime. Far too often when the Opposition comes to power, they become just as corrupt as the system they’ve replaced. Being a dissident means disagreeing with the powers that be, no matter who they are (Right now that's you B92). In order for a democracy to truly function, all thoughts, ideas and customs must be questioned, criticized and torn apart. Nothing should be Taboo as a subject as long as its intelligently discussed.

I can only hope that B92 retains their critical edge and continues to be a voice for those oppressed and does not merely become a political mouth piece for the Pro-West agenda.

i will try to word this carefully... when i read yr comments, victor, i usually support them, and surely yr right to speak them. and then when we consider what is published from the other side! it is just spine-tingling... many of my comments are also "overlooked." this is the thing: we each and all, in our own way, must always struggle for freedom, for democracy, for respect. even in the free-wheeling US, people must struggle for freedom and respect, for basic human rights, this is nothing new. and i'm sure in canada, too. in the ex-YU it is all the harder, since there is a less-than-deep history of democracy and respect for human rights. now we are locked in a struggle for kosovo/a independence; a few short years ago we were locked in a struggle for bosnia's survival, and thAt battle is far from over... inside serbia there are many powerful anti-democratic forces, dangerous ones, desperate ones. b-92 and their allies are up against a lot, perhaps more than we can imagine, and i respect that; they are not the enemy, as imperfect as they are for us.

as for the censorship issue, it has surfaced a number of times, and i do hope that posters continue to address it. many of us feel that the rules are not played out equitably, to say the least. cetrtainly if those voices on the other side are printed, day after day after day, then we have at least the RIght to be heard. do others agree?

happy hanukkah! from san francisco

I too have had posts denied because of a certain topic three republics avoid, which the world came to the rescue to the fourth repbulic.

As for the parallel on this issue and another one regrading B92... show me the money then I'll explain all the way back to 1996.

Good bye to all from Canada,


Slavko

Post Script: my Godfather was a WWII teenaged Chetnik! He didn't have the responsibility of being a father or husband during the war; therefore, I was told of firsthand events, not reports.

Maybe if B92 would stop spreading western propaganda (like W. Montgomery), people would not be so hostile toward it.

Both thumbs up for B92! Keep on the good work!

@ Victor. I wonder why??

Victor I guess you know my views on Kosova's independence but this is not the proper thread to discuss them. The issue here is free press and intimidation of one of the most professional press outlets in the whole Balkan region. Even if one were not to agree with the editorial line of B92 that is not justification for issuing threats of the kind this New Serbia guy has done. That simply does not belong in a democracy and the guy should pay a price for his irresponsible and criminal threats. I congratulate President Tadic for his support and I want to lend B92 my full support too albeit I can only do this through my posting. At least I hope it will serve as an encouragement for B92 to keep up its good work.

B92 is fair and balanced, and threats to B92 are threats to Serbia itself. If politicians do not like the news, they should change it by changing their actions and words, and not trying to suppress or control the news organisations.

The thing to remember is that Serbia isn't just Belgrade.
You may have a few moderates in the capital but has anyone ever thought what it's like out in the sticks? Usually low pay, no future prospects, social isolation. All these components add up to creating right- winged fascist nationalists.
Raise societies standards and they will go away. Look at Northern Ireland as an example.

The real concern, for those of us that care about the media, is increasing commercialisation which can lead to a decrease in quality.

I'm glad that B92 cut the occasional extreme view. Its obvious that some people here are not mature enough to express their views in the proper manner. Its also obvious that some people cannot help but 'rise to the occasion' when provoked.

Those kids should go to one of those sad forums where people get off on insulting one another.

On the issue - B92 saw off Milosevic and Seselj was powerless to stop them. What makes Ilic and his tiny party think they can have any impact?

One only needs to read B92’s instructions to see that they are very lenient in allowing comments to be posted on their site. Some contributors should take the time to reread the rules.
Including, but not limited to… “B92 maintains the right to choose which comments to publish, as well as the right to edit their contents. Comments which include insults, indecencies, racial or national hate messages and intolerance of any kind will not be published. Hateful words are not allowed on B92’s site. Comments written in a style lacking the basic elements of grammar will not be published.”

There are rules in every civilized society.
Take responsibility for your own chosen behavior instead of blaming B92.

At least in Serbia the President is taking the free media's side, but in Albania we have sth worse, the prime minister has attempted several times to shut down Top Channel, a young private independent media, the largest one in the country. They fined Top Channel millions of Euros in fees, they tried to move it from its main bulidings, they removed its antennas outside of Tirana, etc etc. People were protesting because they were left only with Montenegrin and GReek channels to watch. The pressure stopped after complaints from the US officials and intl. media organizations. The outcome were big minus points for the prime minister Berisha(who in 97 beat up journalists and burned the quarters of the best newspaper in the country, Koha Jone, Our Times).