UK supports Kosovo independence

the british citizens can be proud of their "responsible" government.

I wounder how your parents reacted that time when half of albanian land was given to serbia. Toplica, south of present serbia, Kosova, Macedonia, south of montenegro, sandzak these land was albanian land which was occupied by you and with support from Russia, France, England etc. It was very big present for you that time. Governments of these countries who supported you that time they were ok that time?

Thank you Mr. Minister amongst many other ministers from other countries to undo the wrongs of Malta,London, Berlin conferances etc...
Finally justice is prevailing.

Once again the pathetic British government grovels to its US master! I wonder if this junior British minister will inform the British taxpayers of their financial contribution towards this wonderful new "Kosova". It seems the British establishment has a very bitter antagonism towards everything Serbian. The vast majority of Irish people stand with Serbia.

What else to expect from the country whose head is continuosly in direction of the USA instead of EU where it belongs to.

This man just missed to say how the UK think to deal with those EU countries that oppose the recognition of Kosovo. Perhaps UK plans some sort of force to apply. Nice to know that EU is such freaking artifical creation. Each day EU's high representatives prove this fact by giving such nasty statements that diminish other EU states' stance.

here we have again some kind of disinformation combinated with an open threat to breach international law.

the british citizens can be proud of their "responsible" government.

seems like the british official does´n want to say the truth..but given that they are "partners" of the US... nothing new at all.

let´s see what future brings.

An extension of the US puppetry!

The UK cannot afford to say anything other than they support the backing of independence. Look at the inhabitants/immigrants of their country. To say anything else would be committing political suicide.

I guess some people are still not gonna be convinced, but given the repeated statements by the US, UK, France, Italy, Germany etc etc that they are going to recognize Kosova's independence regardless of what Russia says, that sounds too much like wishful thinking. However I guess the Serb government knows better and it has known better all along. They have tried to drive a hard bargain thus far in the hope of getting as much compensation for losing Kosova as possible, but I think that now is the time to scale down their bellicose rhetoric, accept the inevitable and see what they can get in return for it, e.g. faster EU integration etc. Otherwise the whole strategy might backfire and they will be doing Serbia more harm then good while losing Kosova all the same.

Congratulations UK, congratulations Mr. Minister.
I would also say congratulations EU to have an important member country like the UK, who stands up for justice and human rights in Europe and in the world.

I wonder what his views are on Scottish independence, if he supports independence for Kosovo and Metohija.

It's quite an art to show unquestioning support for the US; insult Russia; and undermine international law all in a few sentences.

Nobody should be under any illusions - the UK follows wherever the US leads.

I find the UK support for Kosovo's independence shameful, I'm not proud in the slightest, and you are right its just another case of us following America.

Of course.....What else can the Serbs expect from an ally in two world wars. I hope the Serbs keep this in mind when Scotland decides to seperate from the UK.

Louie - Virtually any British person would say the same as Kieran - that the UK is blindly following US foreign policy.

"Ex-PM(Mr.Tony Blair) was the one who was pushing to send the ground forces in 1999 and we will never forget that!"

Coincidentally, I'll never forget that either. I can also tell you that you would be hard pushed in Britain to find anyone that likes or respects Blair. We are all pleased that he has now gone off to pastures new.

There were many against the bombing of Serbia, especially considering the full force of propaganda that was going on.

"Now,your anger towards anything British you should address to your people and you should leave Kosovo out of this!"

Many of us have anger towards the British government partly because of what they did to Serbia. Keiran is a British taxpayer like myself, so he more than anyone has a right to criticise the warmongering Blair (and now apparently Brown) government.

This Government of ours (UK) has got something right at last. Gibraltar, N.Ireland and the Falklands Islands all wish to remain British and rightfully so are allowed to remain. Why should the Kosovo Albanians wish to be Kosovans and not Serbian Citizens be equally respected.

"I guess some people are still not gonna be convinced, but given the repeated statements by the US, UK, France, Italy, Germany etc etc that they are going to recognize Kosova's independence regardless of what Russia says, that sounds too much like wishful thinking. However I guess the Serb government knows better and it has known better all along. They have tried to drive a hard bargain thus far in the hope of getting as much compensation for losing Kosova as possible, but I think that now is the time to scale down their bellicose rhetoric, accept the inevitable and see what they can get in return for it, e.g. faster EU integration etc. Otherwise the whole strategy might backfire and they will be doing Serbia more harm then good while losing Kosova all the same.
(teni, 6 December 2007 12:08) "

teni,

you must understand that not the entire world is filled with unabashed admiration for the US, UK and other former colonial powers.

Anyway, what is telling is that the UK, while declaring its support for Kosovo independence, dares not venture further to say WHEN they will actually do so. Their leaving out the timeline is politically expedient. They know that unless Kosovo can enter the UN (read: overcome Moscow and probably Beijing's opposition), they will never be truly an independent couuntry as far as investors (which Kosovo so badly needs) are concerned. You are fooling yourself if you think the US and UK companies are going to take their governments' word for it and go rushing into Kosovo. No savvy capitalist will ever do that!

Finally, the UK recognition of Kosovo independence, if it comes, is only a paper exercise at best. It is what will happen de facto on the ground that matters. And I predict that facto partition on the ground will follow any recognition outside the UN.

«What else to expect from the country whose head is continuosly in direction of the USA instead of EU where it belongs to. »

Very bad analysis o the reality. Most of the European countries refuse to go to war with the USA in Iraq. Even Canada refused. But we are all with Kosovo because there is no other way to respect the choice of a majority.

Kate,
my comment was addressed to Kieran and not you!
You should be happy that I praise British People as one of the best Nations in the World,but in contrary you have to bring Serbia here and then badmouthing your Government!

I do pay taxes myself and I am not happy sometimes with the policy of UK Gov., but I don't badmouth them!

Whatever opinion you have regarding Kosovo,I will always respect you and your nation,I just reacted to Kieran comment when he said that mayority of Irish People are with Serbia!
That is far from truth!

Now, you felt bad about you government involvment during the Nato intervention in Serbia,can I ask you how did you feel when watching Sky News Live when NATO ground forces entered Kosovo and saw the happy faces again of Kosovans or maybe you were to upset that Nato had to intervene!

Serbia lost Kosovo in 1999!

"can I ask you how did you feel when watching Sky News Live when NATO ground forces entered Kosovo and saw the happy faces again of Kosovans"

And this showed that many Albanians stayed in Kosovo during the bombing and that they were uninjured, well-fed and clean. The were mostly safe - except for NATO bombs and if they were caught in the middle of KLA-Serbian forces fighting.

Their existance shows they thrived and raised larged families when the Serbian government was in control. It was their people who initiated the violence and a low-level war to bring NATO in. It was their KLA which ordered them to leave AFTER NATO started bombing, but over half didn't leave and they were all alive and fine when NATO entered.

That shows the lies and exaggeration of what was going on in Kosovo during the NATO bombing.

"international community from fulfilling its promise that Kosovo will become an independent"

When did the international community make this promise?

The only thing that have done is to agree that Kosovo is part of Serbia with UNSC resolution 1244.

To Mark Green:

Be careful what you wish for, it might just happen. By your logic, the Serbs in Kosovo should be allowed to remain a part of Serbia and the Serbs of Bosnia should be allowed to create their own state. But why stop there, Catalonia should become a state, the Basques should also get their own state, Kurdistan should also become a state because they're probably the most oppressed minority in the world. I think your logic is extremely dangerous and your capacity to view what you read in the mainstream press with a some skepticism lacking. Clearly, today's politicians rely on the masses who unfortunately are in the main like you....unable to think for themselves.

The vast majority of Irish people stand with Serbia.
(Kieran Martin, Belfast,Ireland, 6 December 2007 16:02)

Well, I would like to believe that!

Until last year a charity organisation from Dublin called "GOAL" helped to repair all the schools in Kosovo which were destroyed during the war!
I thanked them many times and I am thanking them again for the hard work and help they gave to Kosovans.

Now,your anger towards anything British you should address to your people and you should leave Kosovo out of this!

Ex-PM(Mr.Tony Blair) was the one who was pushing to send the ground forces in 1999 and we will never forget that!

At the present,the British People are the most tolerant and generous Nation in the World!
For Decades British ruled the World and now to say that they follow US it's just jealousy and because it is to do with Serbia!

Joe..

"Too bad for Serbia that you are so insignificant just like Cypres and Slovakia. "

if these democratic and internationally recognized states are insignificant... then what are you down there in serbian Kosovo? =)

oh, excuse me, ...I forgot, you are a Hungarian, of course...

all those "insignificant" states, are what you are desperately wishing to become... STATES with , by the way, VETO-power in the EU.

ps: I talked with some Irish colleagues the recent days, and they told me quite the same. Most Irish share the view of the democratic serbian side.

seems like somebody is lying here, or at least not very good informed.

“Great Britain and the majority of European countries have clearly stated that they will not allow a thoughtless veto from one country to stop the international community from fulfilling its promise that Kosovo will become an independent and sovereign state,” Murphy stressed.

That’s slap in the face to Russian diplomacy and Putin’s Nieyt.

beni

Get over it. All European countries have lost and gained land in wars and treaties, not just Albanians. This European nationalism and bond with the land has caused nothing but trouble anyway.

"This Government of ours (UK) has got something right at last. Gibraltar, N.Ireland and the Falklands Islands all wish to remain British and rightfully so are allowed to remain. Why should the Kosovo Albanians wish to be Kosovans and not Serbian Citizens be equally respected.
(Mark Green, 6 December 2007 12:56) "

I am not so sure that your sweeping statement applies to the Catholics in N Ireland. Regarding the K-Albanians wish to be "Kosovans", on the flip side, aren't the K-Serbs equally entitled to remain Serbians? And they have the numbers in the north to justify a partition.

The minister told Albanian-language BBC that “Britain will recognize Kosovo when the time comes.”

This is the crux of the article. "When the time comes" may not come for a while. If anything, the EU will simply take over adinistrative responsibilities for Kosovo for in indefinite future. While this may lead to eventual Kosovo independence, by the time that comes, tensions between Serbs and Albanians will hopefully be normalized, and independence will be given upon ascension to the EU. Britian is clever to say they support independence, but independence on THEIR terms, not Pristina's.

To Kieran Martin:

Are you also supporting for Ireland to go back to English rule? You know the English empire used to "own" ireland for quite some time, if you use Serbian dictionary.

Thats the problem, what democratic state? I think he ment to say a nato military puppet state.

Not everyone in the uk feels that kosovo should be given away.

It is mostly the uk government trying to look like an important power and trying to make up for doing nothing in Bosnia in the 1990's.

Louie: "Kate, my comment was addressed to Kieran and not you!"

As far as I'm aware, anyone on here is allowed to answer any comment posted. People do this in response to my comments frequently which is just fine.

Joe, your comments bear no relavancy to your earlier statements calling Ireland "irrelevant". You have shown time and again you are incapable of dealing in even the most rational conversation, and your constant need to belittle people, as well as entire nations, is truly juvenile. Plus your constant need to attach labels to people, defining them by your pre-conceived notions of ethnic or social class shows the limits of your understanding.

I fail to see your rationale behind Ireland's history of poverty and it so-called "irrelevancy" now. If you're still stuck in the Cold War mentality of might makes right and that strong states are simply weighed by political clout, you clearly are behind the times. Ireland is no powerhouse, but it has an equal voice in the EU as any other state. Even someone like you could see that. And if we're going to measure countries on the level of significance based on power, then Kosovo will become one of the most insignificant countries not only in Europe, but also in the world. But that's OK with you so long as it's a client of the US.

By reducing your arguments to collective stereotyping you continue to show me how you view the world and you continue to show how narrow-minded and intolerant a person you really are. Such views wouldn't even get you an Associates Degree at a community college, let alone where I teach, whether it's me in the classroom or someone else. You're no longer worth the time I've wasted conversing with you. Your views are primitive and your social skills have the maturity of a 15 year old, seeing as insulting and belittling are sure signs of someone without either a cogent argument or a clue.

But don't worry Joe, I won't think any less of the Hungarian, or the Hungarian-American race or the Hungarian-American-software sector on account of your personal shortcomings :)

the tone makes the music, so, good for serbia that he´s angry and getting personel.

but he also should watch out, cause on jannuary 13th the nonsense-bubble about the eu-majority pro indiependence will burst.

there is - not just in diplomatic speech - a huge difference between a.) i could live with indiependent kosovo and b.) under international law or after an agreement or without getting my investment in serbia in danger or when we have the troops to protect our worthless acknowledgement! spain, hungary, romania, greece and cyprus are just the countries that said not even when hell freezes. you can take the rest of eu as majority, just until it get´s official!

“Great Britain and the majority of European countries have clearly stated that they will not allow a thoughtless veto from one country to stop the international community from fulfilling its promise that Kosovo will become an independent and sovereign state,” Murphy stressed.

"That’s slap in the face to Russian diplomacy and Putin’s Nieyt."

Well it has never been vetoed as it has never been put in front on the UNSC.

It also depends of the very subjective view on what is a "thoughtless" veto.

The fact that 1244 is already there is the sticking point, but it is one that the UK and US govts have already agreed to so they only have themselves to blame.

Joe

So then why does the US care so much about Kosovo? Is Kosovo significant in any way?

KS

Because you come to here to vent out your frustrations and not actually say anything constructive or worthwhile.

So they wont let one veto stop them but I guess they will when there is double veto!

Mark Green - Gibralter seems like a nice place I wonder if ther are any other British Serbs willing to move over and declare Independence - I guess you seem ok with that!!! Consequences, consequences, consequences......

So the West promised Kosovo independence. Hmm, but the promised Serbia in 1999 that Kosovo should stay part of Serbia: 1244.

And if they promised Kosovo independence, why were negotiations needed?

This all starts becoming a very bad joke!

Come on, let's promise Tibet independence now!!

Ireland is insignificant, Joe? Are you that desperate to now extend your racial stereotyping to Ireland too, simply because they (or more like a single commenter on this site) doesn't agree with you? Have you seen the economic strength of Ireland in the last 10 years? Have you even been to Ireland, or are you simply shooting from your hip again, as you're wont to do with Serbia? I don't know where you get off evaluating countries simply based on their political stance.

Kieran,

So the Irish people stand with Serbia?
Too bad for Serbia that you are so insignificant just like Cypres and Slovakia.
You would weight more if millions of you would not have decided in the XIX century to try their luck in the New World.

"Hmm… the word Taiwan is going through my head for some reason…

LOWE, let this be the worry of the Kosovar citizens, you have shown how well you are able to take care of them and their “investments”.
(Shpata, 6 December 2007 22:04)"

Well Shpata, actually Kosovo and Taiwan are leagues apart in terms of economic wealth and development. The only similarity is that both are still outside the UN.

I don't get what you mean about mine taking care of some Kosovo investments??? I am not from Kosovo, I am not even from the Balkans.

Well the UK can suggest a future independence but they and the rest of the EU know it must be through the UN;

"Guiding principles for the envisaged
international/EU presence in Kosovo
• All preparations made by the EU in its planning for a future
presence in Kosovo are made without prejudice to the outcome of the status negotiations. A new UN Security Council resolution is necessary for the future implementation of a status solution, in particular for the civilian and military international presence overseeing implementation."
p7 Planning for EUMIK
http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/pdf/serbia/kosovo/eu_preparations_may_2007_en.pdf
- even in EU documents they cannot escape the fact that there can be no EUMIK or military prescence without a UN agreement. There is no "novel" way in which they can even conditionally recognise any illegal declarations of independence. I guess thats why there is no date!

Peter,

An independent Kosovo is very significant in many ways.
First of all its inhabitants deserve to live in freedom and democraty enjoing all the rights and privileges of a free society just like citizens of major western countries.
Secondly the Western democratic world has to set an example: any country, who tries to imitate the criminal and barbaric actions of Serbia of the niteties will be severly punished. It is important to send a message.
Thirdly it is important to show the world that there are important countries, who can be guided by high moral principles, willing to defend small oppressed people without the prospect of future economic or commercial rewards as a compensation. By this I mean the fact that Kosovo has no oil deposits (cherished polemic of all anti-americans, who would like to make believe that the US intervene for oil).
Some small insignificant counties, who never did anything for others out of humanitarian reason can not understand it. They are guided by sentiments of ethnic or religious affinity or by old resentiment against a powerful neighbour, who support the once oppressed people like the K-Albanians.
It is strange that you as a Pole, citizen of a so-called catholic country seem to find Kosovo insignificant. Somebody with some moral principles - without the need to be religious - should not be guided by the number of people involved (2 millions apparently insignificant for you) but by the sheer moral principle. Also the blind slavic solidarity principle seem to me very tribal and Eastern European type.

Mike,

I don't have to be a teacher like you to know enough about Irlande. I know very well that Irlande used to be a basket case. Many young Irish had no choice but emigrate to Canada, US and Australia. Things greatly changed with the EU membership. Already years before their admission they received billions and billions for infrastructure (similar to Spain and Portugal). Also a lot of US software companies set foot there bringing high paying jobs. Because of all this Irlande became very prosperous. Many Irish started to buy back castles owned by Germans. I could tell you much. By the way do you teach in a community college by any chance?
Anyway despite economic prosperity Irlande will always remain a politically insignificant country within the EU just like 15-20 others.
And me desperate? I was never more upbeat about a soon to be independent Kosovo than now. The clear desperation is in the Serbian camp and by its supporters.

Im a UK citizen, but do not support my government's support on this issue.
It seems to me that a certain needs to be asked of Thaci and Kosovo seperatists. it seems Kosovo hungers for seperation, and wishes to break completely from Serbia, some say at all costs. Yet on the other hand they advocate being members of the EU. Forgive me for my confusion, but doesn't EU stand for European Union. My question to my own government is, how can they can support Kosovo over this issue when Kosovo doesn't seem to be decided on what 'union' actually means. In short, if they can't have unity with Serbia, how on earth can they ever hope to be happy with a union with the rest of us in the EU. You can't have it both ways Pristina!

Peter on the contrary, I am very happy, my country will be independent. I have a lot to be happy for.

The vast majority of Irish people stand with Serbia.
(Kieran Martin, Belfast, Ireland)
Well said Kieran. I do hope you are right, though we have no way of knowing for sure. Yet, all my friends who take an interest are of like mind with you and I.

As regards the Brits, well, what does one expect. Once an imperialist, always an imperialist.

Finally, I see that Joe is at it again - spewing insults. I wonder how the moderator puts up with him.

Dear b92,

are you still experiencing technical difficulties? I have noticed that in the last 3 days 12 of my comments have not showed up, at all. A couple of them have, so I am wondering why I can't find mine.

Thank You
Kosova

congrat's to the UK govt for making the right decision, this time. during the horrors in bosnia, the britt govt of the time acted cowardly, and bears some responsibilty for the duration and "excesses" of that war/genocide. later, under blair's govt., gr britian was a leader in the support of albanian victims and refugees. iraq is another story... but the new british leadership has come through, and this unfolding pro-independence coalition is a fabulous one :) it is NOT anti-serb; it is pro-freedom!

by the way, a tiny history lesson (don't yawn) -- guess who was one of the most consistent opponents of the evil milosevic regime? here's a hint: Her initials are "M. T." yes, even an autocrat like maggie knew evil when she was up against it, and i have no doubt, if she still had her wits about her, which side of this debate she'd be on. (not to mention george washington, abe lincoln, kennedy...)

Remember this: The UK is a puppet of the US (Blair was Bush's poodle). The UK will not do anything without asking permission from the US. So you have to parse the US position: The US supports "conditional independence via Ahtassari". But the Ahtassari plan is a UN plan which was killed by Russia. Therefore, the US has a convenient exit strategy for NOT recognizing a declaration of independence if the US loses its nerve. Thaci cannot declare "Ahtassari". Every week, a Greek reporter asks the US State Department spokesperson about Kosovo. The State Department always says they support the Ahtassari plan and they support the EU's position. They never say that the US demands Kosovo independence. This is all a huge set-up to bail out at the last minute. The US is trying to get Russia to desert Serbia. Unfortunately, they underestimated Vladimir Putin and don't understand that Putin wants a little payback for the US winning the Cold War by embarassing the US.

Go for it UK. Lets hope that one day Serbia will have the opportunity to recognise an independent part of England as a sovereign state. After all the precedent will have been set.

I simply cannot fathom the hypocrisy of the Brits (then again I'm not too surprised given their track record here in Ireland). Their armed forces sailed into the South Atlantic to assert British sovereignty over the Falkland Island and its dependencies in 1982 yet its undermining Serbia's very own sovereignty as an independent state. What Serbia should do is recognise Argentina's claim over the Malvinas.

Serbia fully supports the coming independences of Scotland, Northern Ireland (one Ireland how it used to be, no more British!!!), Corsica, Basque Region and Catalonia, Friesland, Vlaanderen, South Tirol (should be Austrian), Kurdistan, Palestine, Texas (Tejas), New New Mexico, Baja California (with its new capital Los Angeles), Quebec and many others. Look what has happened with the Bosman verdict (the football Pandora box) and how it (together with money and greed) has killed a sport that used to be nice and exciting). The weapon and oil industries will have golden times ahead (and guess who is buying their stocks right now (the corrupt politicians that are playing this Russian roulette with so many innocent lives)).

“Anyway, what is telling is that the UK, while declaring its support for Kosovo independence, dares not venture further to say WHEN they will actually do so. Their leaving out the timeline is politically expedient. They know that unless Kosovo can enter the UN (read: overcome Moscow and probably Beijing's opposition), they will never be truly an independent couuntry as far as investors (which Kosovo so badly needs) are concerned. You are fooling yourself if you think the US and UK companies are going to take their governments' word for it and go rushing into Kosovo. No savvy capitalist will ever do that!

Finally, the UK recognition of Kosovo independence, if it comes, is only a paper exercise at best. It is what will happen de facto on the ground that matters. And I predict that facto partition on the ground will follow any recognition outside the UN.”
(lowe, 6 December 2007 13:43)



Hmm… the word Taiwan is going through my head for some reason…

LOWE, let this be the worry of the Kosovar citizens, you have shown how well you are able to take care of them and their “investments”.

Joe

You misunderstand my stance towards Kosovo independence and think I am someone from the Serbian camp.

First of all, I do not deny the right of freedom and self-determination of the Kosovo Albanians, second of all, I do not think realistically that Serbia will ever be able to control Kosovo again and thirdly, I agree with the moral standpoint of the West with regards to Kosovo and what the people have endured.

What I do question is the West's approach and how they unequivocally support the notion of recognizing unilateral independence outside of international law when relations between Serbia and Kosovo are as tense as they are, that is all. I fear it may lead to conflict and damaged relations for a long time to come, which is why I support the notion of supervized independence (seeing as though UNSC will be bypassed and there is no way Kosovars will go back to Serbia) where minority rights and integration is carefully monitored, because this will make or break the situation.

To conclude, yes, the acts of the Serbian government and army in the 90's (more speciafically Yugoslav, but anyway) do swing the question of independence of Kosovo in favor of Kosovo, but I criticize the fact that ordinary Serbian civilians in Northern Kosovo are being blamed as well for what happened in 1999 (as Serbs in general being the bad guys), and this is the stigma that the West have created that I am against.

BTW As a Pole I understand the plight of the Kosovo Albanians more than anyone else, the situation does not differ too much from what we had with the Germans, though in this day and age there needs to be another way of solving this issue in order to ensure longterm stability. I fear the West is not handling it right.

KS

So why not be more happy in the way you post?

beni

Get over it. All European countries have lost and gained land in wars and treaties, not just Albanians. This European nationalism and bond with the land has caused nothing but trouble anyway.
(Peter Sudyka, 6 December 2007 13:44)


So, what's the matter with Serbia? Why should french, english, germans, italians, albanians etc, loose and gain territories and Serbia not? Is this country any better? Judging of what Serbia caused in the las 15 years, I think not. I fully support Peter Sudyka. Any other country in Europe did it.

Mike,

I am surprised that B92 allowed all your insults toward me. So apparently you are teaching in a state college and not a community college. My mistake. However I am truly sorry for your college kids.
And as for the "great privilege" of conversing with you I never asked for it. You have not the slightest idea of the quality and rank of people - both in Europe and the US- I am usually in contact. They are miles above you and have class and don't speak like a truck driver.

Tom O'Donoghue (Ireland)

I'm surprisd to see the Irish are all against Kosovo's independence. The parallels with the campaign for Iish independence seem amazingly stark. The use of terrorist tactics, and a population that supported th independence, along with a dislike of the colonial power. I am unsure how to solve the Kosovo problem, but if all the irish are so against independence, and want to criticise the British, i would recommend they make a stand and campaign against their secession from the UK and ask for immediate union.

Bruce,
You are not the first K-Albanian supporter to imagine parallels between the Serbian/Kosovon relationship and the Irish/British one. The implication is that the Irish should support the Kosovars.
But you are seeing something that is not there.
To my mind, suggesting such a parallel displays a profound ignorance of both histories.
If this thread continues, I will elaborate later, but for the moment consider this:
With the military support of a world power, a country is partitioned because a majority of the people in one corner of the country do not identify with the vast majority of people in the entire country. This is what happened to Ireland in the 1920s and it is what is proposed for Serbia today. We all know what subsequently happened in Ireland - repression of the Irish minority in the new mini-state leading to decades of bloody conflict.
The evidence to date suggests that things would be far worse in an "independent" Kosovo for the Serbian minority, inevitably leading to major and wide-ranging conflict.

I should say that this is only one of the many reasons why I support Serbia on this issue.

Serbia without Kosovo would be a Rump Serbia and not a real country. I see no benefit for Serbia to agree to be dismembered and humiliated for all time and be called Rump Serbia.

Joe,
Ireland (both parts) is already with its rightful owners, The Republic and Northern Ireland.

Tom O'Donoghue,
First of all and not to take the topic off on to much of a tangent.
Your comments are typical Irish 'history to suit the Irish'.
As pointed out,
I bet Kosovo is a tricky subject for an Irish person, what with your history of fighting a perceived 'oppressive occupier' using terrorist tactics.
And your explanation,
Its a minority thing isn't it?.
I think you are seeing the Serb minority in Kosovo as some sort of comparison with the minority of Catholics/Republicans in Northern Ireland.
If you are, the comparison is wrong, in Northern Ireland the majority actually lives on land that is theirs (ie part of Britain) and the minority seem to want to take it away, in Kosovo the majority (The Albanians)are living on land that is Serbian yet they wants to break away and take Serbian land with it because for some reason based on something 100's of years old (like the Republicans in the North, although technically there has never been such a thing as a 'united Ireland').
I may be wrong but its the probably the only reason I can see someone from Ireland 'supporting' Serbia, the only other thing I can think of is the British factor, our government (not me personally) wants to do one thing, so automatically the Irish want to do the other.

Thank you Mr. Minister amongst many other ministers from other countries to undo the wrongs of Malta,London, Berlin conferances etc...
Finally justice is prevailing.

the british citizens can be proud of their "responsible" government.

I wounder how your parents reacted that time when half of albanian land was given to serbia. Toplica, south of present serbia, Kosova, Macedonia, south of montenegro, sandzak these land was albanian land which was occupied by you and with support from Russia, France, England etc. It was very big present for you that time. Governments of these countries who supported you that time they were ok that time?

I guess some people are still not gonna be convinced, but given the repeated statements by the US, UK, France, Italy, Germany etc etc that they are going to recognize Kosova's independence regardless of what Russia says, that sounds too much like wishful thinking. However I guess the Serb government knows better and it has known better all along. They have tried to drive a hard bargain thus far in the hope of getting as much compensation for losing Kosova as possible, but I think that now is the time to scale down their bellicose rhetoric, accept the inevitable and see what they can get in return for it, e.g. faster EU integration etc. Otherwise the whole strategy might backfire and they will be doing Serbia more harm then good while losing Kosova all the same.

This Government of ours (UK) has got something right at last. Gibraltar, N.Ireland and the Falklands Islands all wish to remain British and rightfully so are allowed to remain. Why should the Kosovo Albanians wish to be Kosovans and not Serbian Citizens be equally respected.

«What else to expect from the country whose head is continuosly in direction of the USA instead of EU where it belongs to. »

Very bad analysis o the reality. Most of the European countries refuse to go to war with the USA in Iraq. Even Canada refused. But we are all with Kosovo because there is no other way to respect the choice of a majority.

Kieran,

So the Irish people stand with Serbia?
Too bad for Serbia that you are so insignificant just like Cypres and Slovakia.
You would weight more if millions of you would not have decided in the XIX century to try their luck in the New World.

What else to expect from the country whose head is continuosly in direction of the USA instead of EU where it belongs to.

This man just missed to say how the UK think to deal with those EU countries that oppose the recognition of Kosovo. Perhaps UK plans some sort of force to apply. Nice to know that EU is such freaking artifical creation. Each day EU's high representatives prove this fact by giving such nasty statements that diminish other EU states' stance.

It's quite an art to show unquestioning support for the US; insult Russia; and undermine international law all in a few sentences.

Nobody should be under any illusions - the UK follows wherever the US leads.

“Great Britain and the majority of European countries have clearly stated that they will not allow a thoughtless veto from one country to stop the international community from fulfilling its promise that Kosovo will become an independent and sovereign state,” Murphy stressed.

That’s slap in the face to Russian diplomacy and Putin’s Nieyt.

Kate,
my comment was addressed to Kieran and not you!
You should be happy that I praise British People as one of the best Nations in the World,but in contrary you have to bring Serbia here and then badmouthing your Government!

I do pay taxes myself and I am not happy sometimes with the policy of UK Gov., but I don't badmouth them!

Whatever opinion you have regarding Kosovo,I will always respect you and your nation,I just reacted to Kieran comment when he said that mayority of Irish People are with Serbia!
That is far from truth!

Now, you felt bad about you government involvment during the Nato intervention in Serbia,can I ask you how did you feel when watching Sky News Live when NATO ground forces entered Kosovo and saw the happy faces again of Kosovans or maybe you were to upset that Nato had to intervene!

Serbia lost Kosovo in 1999!

"can I ask you how did you feel when watching Sky News Live when NATO ground forces entered Kosovo and saw the happy faces again of Kosovans"

And this showed that many Albanians stayed in Kosovo during the bombing and that they were uninjured, well-fed and clean. The were mostly safe - except for NATO bombs and if they were caught in the middle of KLA-Serbian forces fighting.

Their existance shows they thrived and raised larged families when the Serbian government was in control. It was their people who initiated the violence and a low-level war to bring NATO in. It was their KLA which ordered them to leave AFTER NATO started bombing, but over half didn't leave and they were all alive and fine when NATO entered.

That shows the lies and exaggeration of what was going on in Kosovo during the NATO bombing.

here we have again some kind of disinformation combinated with an open threat to breach international law.

the british citizens can be proud of their "responsible" government.

seems like the british official does´n want to say the truth..but given that they are "partners" of the US... nothing new at all.

let´s see what future brings.

An extension of the US puppetry!

The UK cannot afford to say anything other than they support the backing of independence. Look at the inhabitants/immigrants of their country. To say anything else would be committing political suicide.

beni

Get over it. All European countries have lost and gained land in wars and treaties, not just Albanians. This European nationalism and bond with the land has caused nothing but trouble anyway.

"This Government of ours (UK) has got something right at last. Gibraltar, N.Ireland and the Falklands Islands all wish to remain British and rightfully so are allowed to remain. Why should the Kosovo Albanians wish to be Kosovans and not Serbian Citizens be equally respected.
(Mark Green, 6 December 2007 12:56) "

I am not so sure that your sweeping statement applies to the Catholics in N Ireland. Regarding the K-Albanians wish to be "Kosovans", on the flip side, aren't the K-Serbs equally entitled to remain Serbians? And they have the numbers in the north to justify a partition.

"international community from fulfilling its promise that Kosovo will become an independent"

When did the international community make this promise?

The only thing that have done is to agree that Kosovo is part of Serbia with UNSC resolution 1244.

Of course.....What else can the Serbs expect from an ally in two world wars. I hope the Serbs keep this in mind when Scotland decides to seperate from the UK.

Congratulations UK, congratulations Mr. Minister.
I would also say congratulations EU to have an important member country like the UK, who stands up for justice and human rights in Europe and in the world.

The vast majority of Irish people stand with Serbia.
(Kieran Martin, Belfast,Ireland, 6 December 2007 16:02)

Well, I would like to believe that!

Until last year a charity organisation from Dublin called "GOAL" helped to repair all the schools in Kosovo which were destroyed during the war!
I thanked them many times and I am thanking them again for the hard work and help they gave to Kosovans.

Now,your anger towards anything British you should address to your people and you should leave Kosovo out of this!

Ex-PM(Mr.Tony Blair) was the one who was pushing to send the ground forces in 1999 and we will never forget that!

At the present,the British People are the most tolerant and generous Nation in the World!
For Decades British ruled the World and now to say that they follow US it's just jealousy and because it is to do with Serbia!

"I guess some people are still not gonna be convinced, but given the repeated statements by the US, UK, France, Italy, Germany etc etc that they are going to recognize Kosova's independence regardless of what Russia says, that sounds too much like wishful thinking. However I guess the Serb government knows better and it has known better all along. They have tried to drive a hard bargain thus far in the hope of getting as much compensation for losing Kosova as possible, but I think that now is the time to scale down their bellicose rhetoric, accept the inevitable and see what they can get in return for it, e.g. faster EU integration etc. Otherwise the whole strategy might backfire and they will be doing Serbia more harm then good while losing Kosova all the same.
(teni, 6 December 2007 12:08) "

teni,

you must understand that not the entire world is filled with unabashed admiration for the US, UK and other former colonial powers.

Anyway, what is telling is that the UK, while declaring its support for Kosovo independence, dares not venture further to say WHEN they will actually do so. Their leaving out the timeline is politically expedient. They know that unless Kosovo can enter the UN (read: overcome Moscow and probably Beijing's opposition), they will never be truly an independent couuntry as far as investors (which Kosovo so badly needs) are concerned. You are fooling yourself if you think the US and UK companies are going to take their governments' word for it and go rushing into Kosovo. No savvy capitalist will ever do that!

Finally, the UK recognition of Kosovo independence, if it comes, is only a paper exercise at best. It is what will happen de facto on the ground that matters. And I predict that facto partition on the ground will follow any recognition outside the UN.

the tone makes the music, so, good for serbia that he´s angry and getting personel.

but he also should watch out, cause on jannuary 13th the nonsense-bubble about the eu-majority pro indiependence will burst.

there is - not just in diplomatic speech - a huge difference between a.) i could live with indiependent kosovo and b.) under international law or after an agreement or without getting my investment in serbia in danger or when we have the troops to protect our worthless acknowledgement! spain, hungary, romania, greece and cyprus are just the countries that said not even when hell freezes. you can take the rest of eu as majority, just until it get´s official!

To Mark Green:

Be careful what you wish for, it might just happen. By your logic, the Serbs in Kosovo should be allowed to remain a part of Serbia and the Serbs of Bosnia should be allowed to create their own state. But why stop there, Catalonia should become a state, the Basques should also get their own state, Kurdistan should also become a state because they're probably the most oppressed minority in the world. I think your logic is extremely dangerous and your capacity to view what you read in the mainstream press with a some skepticism lacking. Clearly, today's politicians rely on the masses who unfortunately are in the main like you....unable to think for themselves.

The minister told Albanian-language BBC that “Britain will recognize Kosovo when the time comes.”

This is the crux of the article. "When the time comes" may not come for a while. If anything, the EU will simply take over adinistrative responsibilities for Kosovo for in indefinite future. While this may lead to eventual Kosovo independence, by the time that comes, tensions between Serbs and Albanians will hopefully be normalized, and independence will be given upon ascension to the EU. Britian is clever to say they support independence, but independence on THEIR terms, not Pristina's.

Once again the pathetic British government grovels to its US master! I wonder if this junior British minister will inform the British taxpayers of their financial contribution towards this wonderful new "Kosova". It seems the British establishment has a very bitter antagonism towards everything Serbian. The vast majority of Irish people stand with Serbia.

I wonder what his views are on Scottish independence, if he supports independence for Kosovo and Metohija.

I find the UK support for Kosovo's independence shameful, I'm not proud in the slightest, and you are right its just another case of us following America.

“Great Britain and the majority of European countries have clearly stated that they will not allow a thoughtless veto from one country to stop the international community from fulfilling its promise that Kosovo will become an independent and sovereign state,” Murphy stressed.

"That’s slap in the face to Russian diplomacy and Putin’s Nieyt."

Well it has never been vetoed as it has never been put in front on the UNSC.

It also depends of the very subjective view on what is a "thoughtless" veto.

The fact that 1244 is already there is the sticking point, but it is one that the UK and US govts have already agreed to so they only have themselves to blame.

To Kieran Martin:

Are you also supporting for Ireland to go back to English rule? You know the English empire used to "own" ireland for quite some time, if you use Serbian dictionary.

Thats the problem, what democratic state? I think he ment to say a nato military puppet state.

Louie - Virtually any British person would say the same as Kieran - that the UK is blindly following US foreign policy.

"Ex-PM(Mr.Tony Blair) was the one who was pushing to send the ground forces in 1999 and we will never forget that!"

Coincidentally, I'll never forget that either. I can also tell you that you would be hard pushed in Britain to find anyone that likes or respects Blair. We are all pleased that he has now gone off to pastures new.

There were many against the bombing of Serbia, especially considering the full force of propaganda that was going on.

"Now,your anger towards anything British you should address to your people and you should leave Kosovo out of this!"

Many of us have anger towards the British government partly because of what they did to Serbia. Keiran is a British taxpayer like myself, so he more than anyone has a right to criticise the warmongering Blair (and now apparently Brown) government.

So they wont let one veto stop them but I guess they will when there is double veto!

Mark Green - Gibralter seems like a nice place I wonder if ther are any other British Serbs willing to move over and declare Independence - I guess you seem ok with that!!! Consequences, consequences, consequences......

Joe..

"Too bad for Serbia that you are so insignificant just like Cypres and Slovakia. "

if these democratic and internationally recognized states are insignificant... then what are you down there in serbian Kosovo? =)

oh, excuse me, ...I forgot, you are a Hungarian, of course...

all those "insignificant" states, are what you are desperately wishing to become... STATES with , by the way, VETO-power in the EU.

ps: I talked with some Irish colleagues the recent days, and they told me quite the same. Most Irish share the view of the democratic serbian side.

seems like somebody is lying here, or at least not very good informed.

So the West promised Kosovo independence. Hmm, but the promised Serbia in 1999 that Kosovo should stay part of Serbia: 1244.

And if they promised Kosovo independence, why were negotiations needed?

This all starts becoming a very bad joke!

Come on, let's promise Tibet independence now!!

Mike,

I don't have to be a teacher like you to know enough about Irlande. I know very well that Irlande used to be a basket case. Many young Irish had no choice but emigrate to Canada, US and Australia. Things greatly changed with the EU membership. Already years before their admission they received billions and billions for infrastructure (similar to Spain and Portugal). Also a lot of US software companies set foot there bringing high paying jobs. Because of all this Irlande became very prosperous. Many Irish started to buy back castles owned by Germans. I could tell you much. By the way do you teach in a community college by any chance?
Anyway despite economic prosperity Irlande will always remain a politically insignificant country within the EU just like 15-20 others.
And me desperate? I was never more upbeat about a soon to be independent Kosovo than now. The clear desperation is in the Serbian camp and by its supporters.

Peter on the contrary, I am very happy, my country will be independent. I have a lot to be happy for.

Joe

You misunderstand my stance towards Kosovo independence and think I am someone from the Serbian camp.

First of all, I do not deny the right of freedom and self-determination of the Kosovo Albanians, second of all, I do not think realistically that Serbia will ever be able to control Kosovo again and thirdly, I agree with the moral standpoint of the West with regards to Kosovo and what the people have endured.

What I do question is the West's approach and how they unequivocally support the notion of recognizing unilateral independence outside of international law when relations between Serbia and Kosovo are as tense as they are, that is all. I fear it may lead to conflict and damaged relations for a long time to come, which is why I support the notion of supervized independence (seeing as though UNSC will be bypassed and there is no way Kosovars will go back to Serbia) where minority rights and integration is carefully monitored, because this will make or break the situation.

To conclude, yes, the acts of the Serbian government and army in the 90's (more speciafically Yugoslav, but anyway) do swing the question of independence of Kosovo in favor of Kosovo, but I criticize the fact that ordinary Serbian civilians in Northern Kosovo are being blamed as well for what happened in 1999 (as Serbs in general being the bad guys), and this is the stigma that the West have created that I am against.

BTW As a Pole I understand the plight of the Kosovo Albanians more than anyone else, the situation does not differ too much from what we had with the Germans, though in this day and age there needs to be another way of solving this issue in order to ensure longterm stability. I fear the West is not handling it right.

KS

So why not be more happy in the way you post?

beni

Get over it. All European countries have lost and gained land in wars and treaties, not just Albanians. This European nationalism and bond with the land has caused nothing but trouble anyway.
(Peter Sudyka, 6 December 2007 13:44)


So, what's the matter with Serbia? Why should french, english, germans, italians, albanians etc, loose and gain territories and Serbia not? Is this country any better? Judging of what Serbia caused in the las 15 years, I think not. I fully support Peter Sudyka. Any other country in Europe did it.

Mike,

I am surprised that B92 allowed all your insults toward me. So apparently you are teaching in a state college and not a community college. My mistake. However I am truly sorry for your college kids.
And as for the "great privilege" of conversing with you I never asked for it. You have not the slightest idea of the quality and rank of people - both in Europe and the US- I am usually in contact. They are miles above you and have class and don't speak like a truck driver.

Tom O'Donoghue (Ireland)

I'm surprisd to see the Irish are all against Kosovo's independence. The parallels with the campaign for Iish independence seem amazingly stark. The use of terrorist tactics, and a population that supported th independence, along with a dislike of the colonial power. I am unsure how to solve the Kosovo problem, but if all the irish are so against independence, and want to criticise the British, i would recommend they make a stand and campaign against their secession from the UK and ask for immediate union.

Dear b92,

are you still experiencing technical difficulties? I have noticed that in the last 3 days 12 of my comments have not showed up, at all. A couple of them have, so I am wondering why I can't find mine.

Thank You
Kosova

Joe

So then why does the US care so much about Kosovo? Is Kosovo significant in any way?

KS

Because you come to here to vent out your frustrations and not actually say anything constructive or worthwhile.

“Anyway, what is telling is that the UK, while declaring its support for Kosovo independence, dares not venture further to say WHEN they will actually do so. Their leaving out the timeline is politically expedient. They know that unless Kosovo can enter the UN (read: overcome Moscow and probably Beijing's opposition), they will never be truly an independent couuntry as far as investors (which Kosovo so badly needs) are concerned. You are fooling yourself if you think the US and UK companies are going to take their governments' word for it and go rushing into Kosovo. No savvy capitalist will ever do that!

Finally, the UK recognition of Kosovo independence, if it comes, is only a paper exercise at best. It is what will happen de facto on the ground that matters. And I predict that facto partition on the ground will follow any recognition outside the UN.”
(lowe, 6 December 2007 13:43)



Hmm… the word Taiwan is going through my head for some reason…

LOWE, let this be the worry of the Kosovar citizens, you have shown how well you are able to take care of them and their “investments”.

Not everyone in the uk feels that kosovo should be given away.

It is mostly the uk government trying to look like an important power and trying to make up for doing nothing in Bosnia in the 1990's.

Ireland is insignificant, Joe? Are you that desperate to now extend your racial stereotyping to Ireland too, simply because they (or more like a single commenter on this site) doesn't agree with you? Have you seen the economic strength of Ireland in the last 10 years? Have you even been to Ireland, or are you simply shooting from your hip again, as you're wont to do with Serbia? I don't know where you get off evaluating countries simply based on their political stance.

"Hmm… the word Taiwan is going through my head for some reason…

LOWE, let this be the worry of the Kosovar citizens, you have shown how well you are able to take care of them and their “investments”.
(Shpata, 6 December 2007 22:04)"

Well Shpata, actually Kosovo and Taiwan are leagues apart in terms of economic wealth and development. The only similarity is that both are still outside the UN.

I don't get what you mean about mine taking care of some Kosovo investments??? I am not from Kosovo, I am not even from the Balkans.

Well the UK can suggest a future independence but they and the rest of the EU know it must be through the UN;

"Guiding principles for the envisaged
international/EU presence in Kosovo
• All preparations made by the EU in its planning for a future
presence in Kosovo are made without prejudice to the outcome of the status negotiations. A new UN Security Council resolution is necessary for the future implementation of a status solution, in particular for the civilian and military international presence overseeing implementation."
p7 Planning for EUMIK
http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/pdf/serbia/kosovo/eu_preparations_may_2007_en.pdf
- even in EU documents they cannot escape the fact that there can be no EUMIK or military prescence without a UN agreement. There is no "novel" way in which they can even conditionally recognise any illegal declarations of independence. I guess thats why there is no date!

Peter,

An independent Kosovo is very significant in many ways.
First of all its inhabitants deserve to live in freedom and democraty enjoing all the rights and privileges of a free society just like citizens of major western countries.
Secondly the Western democratic world has to set an example: any country, who tries to imitate the criminal and barbaric actions of Serbia of the niteties will be severly punished. It is important to send a message.
Thirdly it is important to show the world that there are important countries, who can be guided by high moral principles, willing to defend small oppressed people without the prospect of future economic or commercial rewards as a compensation. By this I mean the fact that Kosovo has no oil deposits (cherished polemic of all anti-americans, who would like to make believe that the US intervene for oil).
Some small insignificant counties, who never did anything for others out of humanitarian reason can not understand it. They are guided by sentiments of ethnic or religious affinity or by old resentiment against a powerful neighbour, who support the once oppressed people like the K-Albanians.
It is strange that you as a Pole, citizen of a so-called catholic country seem to find Kosovo insignificant. Somebody with some moral principles - without the need to be religious - should not be guided by the number of people involved (2 millions apparently insignificant for you) but by the sheer moral principle. Also the blind slavic solidarity principle seem to me very tribal and Eastern European type.

congrat's to the UK govt for making the right decision, this time. during the horrors in bosnia, the britt govt of the time acted cowardly, and bears some responsibilty for the duration and "excesses" of that war/genocide. later, under blair's govt., gr britian was a leader in the support of albanian victims and refugees. iraq is another story... but the new british leadership has come through, and this unfolding pro-independence coalition is a fabulous one :) it is NOT anti-serb; it is pro-freedom!

by the way, a tiny history lesson (don't yawn) -- guess who was one of the most consistent opponents of the evil milosevic regime? here's a hint: Her initials are "M. T." yes, even an autocrat like maggie knew evil when she was up against it, and i have no doubt, if she still had her wits about her, which side of this debate she'd be on. (not to mention george washington, abe lincoln, kennedy...)

Im a UK citizen, but do not support my government's support on this issue.
It seems to me that a certain needs to be asked of Thaci and Kosovo seperatists. it seems Kosovo hungers for seperation, and wishes to break completely from Serbia, some say at all costs. Yet on the other hand they advocate being members of the EU. Forgive me for my confusion, but doesn't EU stand for European Union. My question to my own government is, how can they can support Kosovo over this issue when Kosovo doesn't seem to be decided on what 'union' actually means. In short, if they can't have unity with Serbia, how on earth can they ever hope to be happy with a union with the rest of us in the EU. You can't have it both ways Pristina!

Remember this: The UK is a puppet of the US (Blair was Bush's poodle). The UK will not do anything without asking permission from the US. So you have to parse the US position: The US supports "conditional independence via Ahtassari". But the Ahtassari plan is a UN plan which was killed by Russia. Therefore, the US has a convenient exit strategy for NOT recognizing a declaration of independence if the US loses its nerve. Thaci cannot declare "Ahtassari". Every week, a Greek reporter asks the US State Department spokesperson about Kosovo. The State Department always says they support the Ahtassari plan and they support the EU's position. They never say that the US demands Kosovo independence. This is all a huge set-up to bail out at the last minute. The US is trying to get Russia to desert Serbia. Unfortunately, they underestimated Vladimir Putin and don't understand that Putin wants a little payback for the US winning the Cold War by embarassing the US.

Louie: "Kate, my comment was addressed to Kieran and not you!"

As far as I'm aware, anyone on here is allowed to answer any comment posted. People do this in response to my comments frequently which is just fine.

Joe, your comments bear no relavancy to your earlier statements calling Ireland "irrelevant". You have shown time and again you are incapable of dealing in even the most rational conversation, and your constant need to belittle people, as well as entire nations, is truly juvenile. Plus your constant need to attach labels to people, defining them by your pre-conceived notions of ethnic or social class shows the limits of your understanding.

I fail to see your rationale behind Ireland's history of poverty and it so-called "irrelevancy" now. If you're still stuck in the Cold War mentality of might makes right and that strong states are simply weighed by political clout, you clearly are behind the times. Ireland is no powerhouse, but it has an equal voice in the EU as any other state. Even someone like you could see that. And if we're going to measure countries on the level of significance based on power, then Kosovo will become one of the most insignificant countries not only in Europe, but also in the world. But that's OK with you so long as it's a client of the US.

By reducing your arguments to collective stereotyping you continue to show me how you view the world and you continue to show how narrow-minded and intolerant a person you really are. Such views wouldn't even get you an Associates Degree at a community college, let alone where I teach, whether it's me in the classroom or someone else. You're no longer worth the time I've wasted conversing with you. Your views are primitive and your social skills have the maturity of a 15 year old, seeing as insulting and belittling are sure signs of someone without either a cogent argument or a clue.

But don't worry Joe, I won't think any less of the Hungarian, or the Hungarian-American race or the Hungarian-American-software sector on account of your personal shortcomings :)

Go for it UK. Lets hope that one day Serbia will have the opportunity to recognise an independent part of England as a sovereign state. After all the precedent will have been set.

I simply cannot fathom the hypocrisy of the Brits (then again I'm not too surprised given their track record here in Ireland). Their armed forces sailed into the South Atlantic to assert British sovereignty over the Falkland Island and its dependencies in 1982 yet its undermining Serbia's very own sovereignty as an independent state. What Serbia should do is recognise Argentina's claim over the Malvinas.

Serbia fully supports the coming independences of Scotland, Northern Ireland (one Ireland how it used to be, no more British!!!), Corsica, Basque Region and Catalonia, Friesland, Vlaanderen, South Tirol (should be Austrian), Kurdistan, Palestine, Texas (Tejas), New New Mexico, Baja California (with its new capital Los Angeles), Quebec and many others. Look what has happened with the Bosman verdict (the football Pandora box) and how it (together with money and greed) has killed a sport that used to be nice and exciting). The weapon and oil industries will have golden times ahead (and guess who is buying their stocks right now (the corrupt politicians that are playing this Russian roulette with so many innocent lives)).

The vast majority of Irish people stand with Serbia.
(Kieran Martin, Belfast, Ireland)
Well said Kieran. I do hope you are right, though we have no way of knowing for sure. Yet, all my friends who take an interest are of like mind with you and I.

As regards the Brits, well, what does one expect. Once an imperialist, always an imperialist.

Finally, I see that Joe is at it again - spewing insults. I wonder how the moderator puts up with him.

Bruce,
You are not the first K-Albanian supporter to imagine parallels between the Serbian/Kosovon relationship and the Irish/British one. The implication is that the Irish should support the Kosovars.
But you are seeing something that is not there.
To my mind, suggesting such a parallel displays a profound ignorance of both histories.
If this thread continues, I will elaborate later, but for the moment consider this:
With the military support of a world power, a country is partitioned because a majority of the people in one corner of the country do not identify with the vast majority of people in the entire country. This is what happened to Ireland in the 1920s and it is what is proposed for Serbia today. We all know what subsequently happened in Ireland - repression of the Irish minority in the new mini-state leading to decades of bloody conflict.
The evidence to date suggests that things would be far worse in an "independent" Kosovo for the Serbian minority, inevitably leading to major and wide-ranging conflict.

I should say that this is only one of the many reasons why I support Serbia on this issue.

Serbia without Kosovo would be a Rump Serbia and not a real country. I see no benefit for Serbia to agree to be dismembered and humiliated for all time and be called Rump Serbia.

Joe,
Ireland (both parts) is already with its rightful owners, The Republic and Northern Ireland.

Tom O'Donoghue,
First of all and not to take the topic off on to much of a tangent.
Your comments are typical Irish 'history to suit the Irish'.
As pointed out,
I bet Kosovo is a tricky subject for an Irish person, what with your history of fighting a perceived 'oppressive occupier' using terrorist tactics.
And your explanation,
Its a minority thing isn't it?.
I think you are seeing the Serb minority in Kosovo as some sort of comparison with the minority of Catholics/Republicans in Northern Ireland.
If you are, the comparison is wrong, in Northern Ireland the majority actually lives on land that is theirs (ie part of Britain) and the minority seem to want to take it away, in Kosovo the majority (The Albanians)are living on land that is Serbian yet they wants to break away and take Serbian land with it because for some reason based on something 100's of years old (like the Republicans in the North, although technically there has never been such a thing as a 'united Ireland').
I may be wrong but its the probably the only reason I can see someone from Ireland 'supporting' Serbia, the only other thing I can think of is the British factor, our government (not me personally) wants to do one thing, so automatically the Irish want to do the other.