Đelić: Never too late for compromise

Mr Djelic,

Serbia should not ask Albanians to accept the proposals and negotiate any longer since they do not know how to negotiate.

Soldiers don't know how to negotiate and would have rather choose the force than to negotiate. Besides, for having negotiations is ought to meet certain criteria that Albanian team obviously lacks.

Kosovo might get some supervised independence and it will take at least 20 years before Albanians are allowed to take any decisions by themselves. EU and USA will make all decisions on the behalf of the Albanians and basically decide on Kosovo's future. But does this really mean independence? No, that is occupation! Military occupation will last for 100 years, minimum.

I doubt that Albanians will wait that long and before have met criteria for independence they will attack International community.

Then they will come to ask Belgrade for the Aland proposal but the proposal won't be applicable any longer.

As long as the independence is fragile no one will invest in Kosovo. Do I have to mention how poor Kosovo will be in years to come.

You know as well as we all know, that there is no room for compromise Mr. Delic.
Also;
In that meeting, Mr. Mesiq told Delic that he is young and would like to teach him things about former Yugoslavia, that Kosova was constituent part of federal Yugoslavia.

I think Mr. Delic has run out of things to say so he has started speaking nonsense just for the sake of saying something. After all the K-Albanians would be crazy to indulge in the sort of political masochism Delic is suggesting. Just because the situation in Northern Ireland or the Middle East has gone on for decades does not mean that that is a good or inevitable model for the K-Albanians to follow, especially at a time when we have all the support we need for independence. Or should we just throw that away and have a decades long intifada just to do the Serbs a favor?
The way we see it the Kosova situation went on for decades too; it did not start in 98 or 99 or with the Troika. The Serbs repeatedly refused to budge, but apparently to bmrusila's great frustration we played the game better and now the West has decided to solve the issue in our favor. Once we become independent we can a have talks with Serbia for as many decades as it wishes in order for them to recognize us, but not on the status issue. Independence Mr. Delic is a foregone conclusion and that's it.

"Božidar Đelić called on the Kosovo Albanians to continue negotiations on the province’s future status.

“It is never too late to find a solution... it took 23 years to find a solution for Northern Ireland,"

Indeed I couldnt agree more and now we here in Ireland are reaping the benefits of the Good Friday Agreement. As the Irish FM said in Belgrade a couple of weeks ago, it is important that the two sides find a compromise solution for Kosovo through dialogue, and that "this dialogue should not be constrained by deadlines."

So there you have it, compromise, compromise, compromise. maybe the K-Albanians could learn a thing or two from us.

Delic :
He said that Serbia, regardless of further developments, would not use force.
Why didn't Serbia in the 90s not use force on its unarmed neighbors. Are we suddenly to believe that Serbia is harmless and turning a new page in its history.Why Serbs actions don't fit Serb politicans words ,talk is cheap. Also the thousands still missing showing up in mass graves in Srpska and Serbia. Can be very good witnesses of the Serbs policy of not using force and the horrendous injustice that has have been meted out to them. I don't see or hear of Tadic or Kostunica berating the Serbs there to give the ethnically cleansed their land and houses back. We all hear and know how Serbia is trying to steal half of Bosnia. Or Serbia arresting the worst war criminal Mladic and Karadzic instead it has given them shelter.
“It would be very weak of us to tell the world that the only way to get something you want is through the use of force,” Đelić said. That is exactly how Serbia has shown the world and its neighbors the reality of its polices. The rest is meaningless cheap talk by the Serb politicians.

First; you don't have force to use it otherwise you will, we all know what the serbs are capable of...

Second; Kosova will be independent and the talks will never go on and on the EURO doesn't want a Palestine in their door step Mr Deputy prime Minster...

Third; The fundamental point of the talks will never be agreed, Kosova's 95% Albanian population will never sign an agreement to become part of Serbia's severity...

Fourth; The only way to move forward is for Serbia to agree on Kosovo's independency, 5 years time both countries will move into EU family which will bring all the boarder and foreign policy issues that Serbia has with Kosovo's.

i fully agree to this fair thinking man's comments. this is great, isn't it?

Nehat,

I hope I have misread your comment due to it being early in the morning here (7:30 am), and me not having my coffee yet.

You say that both Serbia and Kosovo will become EU members within 5 years time? Sure, i agree... But only if Kosovo stays, rightfully so, part of Serbia. Otherwise, you can most certainly kiss your hopes on EU integration goodbye.

Lenard

"Why didn't Serbia in the 90s not use force on its unarmed neighbors"

Which neighbours are you referring to? If you mean Kosovo are you claiming that the KLA were fighting a guerilla war without any weapons?

finally serbs will compromize on independence and will finally agree that independence is the only sustainable solution in the short medium long run.

Now, it is time

Niall O'Doherty, Ireland,
maybe Serbia should back from its wealthy past (with conflict history)and learn from its mistakes.
Kosova is independent NOW.

bmrusila: Do I detect a note of resignation in your latest postings?
I have to point out to certain flaws in your logic.
First of all we are all aware of the economic hardships Kosova is gonna face, but the real issue is whether those conditions would be better as part of Serbia or under EU supervision. I guess the EU would be the obvious choice: it can do far more for Kosova that Serbia ever could or would.

Then there is the matter of negotiations where you really lost me. States and people do not negotiate out of some innate urge to compromise, but in order to get as much of what they want as they can and if they can get everything they ask for that's what they do. They only agree to a compromise when this is not in the cards, and they try to have a compromise that is as much in their favor as possible because there is no room to be generous in issues like the future of your country. Serbia tried to gain the maximum and so did the Albanians. However to your great chagrin the former soldiers, as you call the won.
And by the way Sejdiu, Surroi and many others in the team have never been soldiers. Only Thaci and Ceku were.

Niall O'Doherty:
Comparing Kosova to Northern Ireland is not viable. The only thing they have in common is that there was a conflict in both, but everything else is different. First of all the demographics are completely different. Then I do not remember the Brits ever carrying out ethnic cleansing in NI.
And one question: Do you really believe that if the Catholics could have been offered all they asked for they would have refused to take it for the sake of reaching a compromise?

I must say that in this conference Djelic felt like a wet chicken when he was confronted by Stjepan Mesic of Croatia with unchanged facts. Stjepan Mesic of Croatia told Djelic about the history of Kosova and how Kosova was a constitutional part of Yugoslavia directly, not only Serbia. Poor Djelic often got stuck and wouldnt know what to say and did not know how to respond until Mesic told him that he is still young and need to learn some things about the truth of Kosova and about how Yugoslavia functioned Yugoslavia. Mr. Djelic got so confused that he often mumbled like a farmer not like a politician at all.
BMRUSILA, you can think and make yourself happy that the serbian team is educated and that the albanian team is not "educated" but to tell you the truth the albanian team is all professional starting from philosophers (Veton Surroi) to lawyers(President Fatmir Sejdiu) while your leaders are some type of leaders that belong to Milosevic times.
Doris Pack also mentioned that Serbia makes propaganda about the historical sites in Kosova such Decani churches or Gracanica ones, but in fact the serbs only want to take Mitrovica which has no historical sites of Serbs and that this shows that Serbia does not really care for historical sites but cares for Mitrovica mines. This shows the hypocrisy of the serbian politics leaded by Kostunica the predecessor of Milosevic.
Sorry to use some harsh words but this is how that conference was.

Nice to see people like bmrusila that is for solving the issue of Kosova and move ahead. Investments are already in Kosova, with the status settlement there are going to be more coming forward, I don’t think that is is healthy to underestimate someone.

Nial, for Serbs your comments are worth nothing. They all know that Kosova belongs to the people that live there and that Serbia has not governed with Kosova since 1999. In fact, they are amassed by your comments. One of them went so far that suggested that specialist like you shpuld have led the negotiation team of Serbia. I thought I inform you.

Thank you bmrusila for portraying to us your view of reality and your prejudice and racism. It is quite ironic that your arguments are in accordance with colonialists and their notion that the nations they were colonizing were unfit to rule themselves - thus their justification for trampling over their rights.
Or maybe you're just a concerned citizen, fearful of Kosovo not being able to rule itself. Irregardless of what the outcome of the status talks would be, don't you think it is a little counter-productive of you to offend the very people that you are trying to prevent from seceding?

Ptoleme X,

I just don't know which part of my comment portrays rasizm. And not sure what was offensive? For being unable to negotiate or the reallity that you gonna be occupied by foreign soldiers for at least 100 years and by civil administration for at least 20? I am not concerened for you Albanians (I am sure they will find way out) but I am concerned for Serbs living in Kosovo.

I am not concerened for you Albanians (I am sure they will find way out) but I am concerned for Serbs living in Kosovo.
(bmrusila, 5 December 2007 23:12)

Since you are not in Kosova right now helping Kosovar-Serbs move from the "mafia run" Kosova than one can only assume that you want all Albanians wiped out like Sheshel so it can be safe again.

Serbia is clearly unprepaired to let Kosovo go, insisting on "broad autonomy" for the Kosovo Albanians, so what compromise have they put forward, Serbia is just changing the way it is saying no to Kosovo becoming independent in the hope the West will be taken in by their "Flexible apporoach".

Serbia clearly expects the K Albanians to be the ones to make all the compromises.

Wouldn't their time have been better spent in the negiations, getting a better deal for the K Serbs, including maybe autonomy for them within the new Kosovo

Delic :
He said that Serbia, regardless of further developments, would not use force.
Why didn't Serbia in the 90s not use force on its unarmed neighbors. Are we suddenly to believe that Serbia is harmless and turning a new page in its history.Why Serbs actions don't fit Serb politicans words ,talk is cheap. Also the thousands still missing showing up in mass graves in Srpska and Serbia. Can be very good witnesses of the Serbs policy of not using force and the horrendous injustice that has have been meted out to them. I don't see or hear of Tadic or Kostunica berating the Serbs there to give the ethnically cleansed their land and houses back. We all hear and know how Serbia is trying to steal half of Bosnia. Or Serbia arresting the worst war criminal Mladic and Karadzic instead it has given them shelter.
“It would be very weak of us to tell the world that the only way to get something you want is through the use of force,” Đelić said. That is exactly how Serbia has shown the world and its neighbors the reality of its polices. The rest is meaningless cheap talk by the Serb politicians.

I think Mr. Delic has run out of things to say so he has started speaking nonsense just for the sake of saying something. After all the K-Albanians would be crazy to indulge in the sort of political masochism Delic is suggesting. Just because the situation in Northern Ireland or the Middle East has gone on for decades does not mean that that is a good or inevitable model for the K-Albanians to follow, especially at a time when we have all the support we need for independence. Or should we just throw that away and have a decades long intifada just to do the Serbs a favor?
The way we see it the Kosova situation went on for decades too; it did not start in 98 or 99 or with the Troika. The Serbs repeatedly refused to budge, but apparently to bmrusila's great frustration we played the game better and now the West has decided to solve the issue in our favor. Once we become independent we can a have talks with Serbia for as many decades as it wishes in order for them to recognize us, but not on the status issue. Independence Mr. Delic is a foregone conclusion and that's it.

You know as well as we all know, that there is no room for compromise Mr. Delic.
Also;
In that meeting, Mr. Mesiq told Delic that he is young and would like to teach him things about former Yugoslavia, that Kosova was constituent part of federal Yugoslavia.

First; you don't have force to use it otherwise you will, we all know what the serbs are capable of...

Second; Kosova will be independent and the talks will never go on and on the EURO doesn't want a Palestine in their door step Mr Deputy prime Minster...

Third; The fundamental point of the talks will never be agreed, Kosova's 95% Albanian population will never sign an agreement to become part of Serbia's severity...

Fourth; The only way to move forward is for Serbia to agree on Kosovo's independency, 5 years time both countries will move into EU family which will bring all the boarder and foreign policy issues that Serbia has with Kosovo's.

finally serbs will compromize on independence and will finally agree that independence is the only sustainable solution in the short medium long run.

Now, it is time

Niall O'Doherty, Ireland,
maybe Serbia should back from its wealthy past (with conflict history)and learn from its mistakes.
Kosova is independent NOW.

I must say that in this conference Djelic felt like a wet chicken when he was confronted by Stjepan Mesic of Croatia with unchanged facts. Stjepan Mesic of Croatia told Djelic about the history of Kosova and how Kosova was a constitutional part of Yugoslavia directly, not only Serbia. Poor Djelic often got stuck and wouldnt know what to say and did not know how to respond until Mesic told him that he is still young and need to learn some things about the truth of Kosova and about how Yugoslavia functioned Yugoslavia. Mr. Djelic got so confused that he often mumbled like a farmer not like a politician at all.
BMRUSILA, you can think and make yourself happy that the serbian team is educated and that the albanian team is not "educated" but to tell you the truth the albanian team is all professional starting from philosophers (Veton Surroi) to lawyers(President Fatmir Sejdiu) while your leaders are some type of leaders that belong to Milosevic times.
Doris Pack also mentioned that Serbia makes propaganda about the historical sites in Kosova such Decani churches or Gracanica ones, but in fact the serbs only want to take Mitrovica which has no historical sites of Serbs and that this shows that Serbia does not really care for historical sites but cares for Mitrovica mines. This shows the hypocrisy of the serbian politics leaded by Kostunica the predecessor of Milosevic.
Sorry to use some harsh words but this is how that conference was.

Nice to see people like bmrusila that is for solving the issue of Kosova and move ahead. Investments are already in Kosova, with the status settlement there are going to be more coming forward, I don’t think that is is healthy to underestimate someone.

Nial, for Serbs your comments are worth nothing. They all know that Kosova belongs to the people that live there and that Serbia has not governed with Kosova since 1999. In fact, they are amassed by your comments. One of them went so far that suggested that specialist like you shpuld have led the negotiation team of Serbia. I thought I inform you.

Mr Djelic,

Serbia should not ask Albanians to accept the proposals and negotiate any longer since they do not know how to negotiate.

Soldiers don't know how to negotiate and would have rather choose the force than to negotiate. Besides, for having negotiations is ought to meet certain criteria that Albanian team obviously lacks.

Kosovo might get some supervised independence and it will take at least 20 years before Albanians are allowed to take any decisions by themselves. EU and USA will make all decisions on the behalf of the Albanians and basically decide on Kosovo's future. But does this really mean independence? No, that is occupation! Military occupation will last for 100 years, minimum.

I doubt that Albanians will wait that long and before have met criteria for independence they will attack International community.

Then they will come to ask Belgrade for the Aland proposal but the proposal won't be applicable any longer.

As long as the independence is fragile no one will invest in Kosovo. Do I have to mention how poor Kosovo will be in years to come.

bmrusila: Do I detect a note of resignation in your latest postings?
I have to point out to certain flaws in your logic.
First of all we are all aware of the economic hardships Kosova is gonna face, but the real issue is whether those conditions would be better as part of Serbia or under EU supervision. I guess the EU would be the obvious choice: it can do far more for Kosova that Serbia ever could or would.

Then there is the matter of negotiations where you really lost me. States and people do not negotiate out of some innate urge to compromise, but in order to get as much of what they want as they can and if they can get everything they ask for that's what they do. They only agree to a compromise when this is not in the cards, and they try to have a compromise that is as much in their favor as possible because there is no room to be generous in issues like the future of your country. Serbia tried to gain the maximum and so did the Albanians. However to your great chagrin the former soldiers, as you call the won.
And by the way Sejdiu, Surroi and many others in the team have never been soldiers. Only Thaci and Ceku were.

Niall O'Doherty:
Comparing Kosova to Northern Ireland is not viable. The only thing they have in common is that there was a conflict in both, but everything else is different. First of all the demographics are completely different. Then I do not remember the Brits ever carrying out ethnic cleansing in NI.
And one question: Do you really believe that if the Catholics could have been offered all they asked for they would have refused to take it for the sake of reaching a compromise?

Thank you bmrusila for portraying to us your view of reality and your prejudice and racism. It is quite ironic that your arguments are in accordance with colonialists and their notion that the nations they were colonizing were unfit to rule themselves - thus their justification for trampling over their rights.
Or maybe you're just a concerned citizen, fearful of Kosovo not being able to rule itself. Irregardless of what the outcome of the status talks would be, don't you think it is a little counter-productive of you to offend the very people that you are trying to prevent from seceding?

"Božidar Đelić called on the Kosovo Albanians to continue negotiations on the province’s future status.

“It is never too late to find a solution... it took 23 years to find a solution for Northern Ireland,"

Indeed I couldnt agree more and now we here in Ireland are reaping the benefits of the Good Friday Agreement. As the Irish FM said in Belgrade a couple of weeks ago, it is important that the two sides find a compromise solution for Kosovo through dialogue, and that "this dialogue should not be constrained by deadlines."

So there you have it, compromise, compromise, compromise. maybe the K-Albanians could learn a thing or two from us.

i fully agree to this fair thinking man's comments. this is great, isn't it?

Nehat,

I hope I have misread your comment due to it being early in the morning here (7:30 am), and me not having my coffee yet.

You say that both Serbia and Kosovo will become EU members within 5 years time? Sure, i agree... But only if Kosovo stays, rightfully so, part of Serbia. Otherwise, you can most certainly kiss your hopes on EU integration goodbye.

Lenard

"Why didn't Serbia in the 90s not use force on its unarmed neighbors"

Which neighbours are you referring to? If you mean Kosovo are you claiming that the KLA were fighting a guerilla war without any weapons?

Ptoleme X,

I just don't know which part of my comment portrays rasizm. And not sure what was offensive? For being unable to negotiate or the reallity that you gonna be occupied by foreign soldiers for at least 100 years and by civil administration for at least 20? I am not concerened for you Albanians (I am sure they will find way out) but I am concerned for Serbs living in Kosovo.

I am not concerened for you Albanians (I am sure they will find way out) but I am concerned for Serbs living in Kosovo.
(bmrusila, 5 December 2007 23:12)

Since you are not in Kosova right now helping Kosovar-Serbs move from the "mafia run" Kosova than one can only assume that you want all Albanians wiped out like Sheshel so it can be safe again.

Serbia is clearly unprepaired to let Kosovo go, insisting on "broad autonomy" for the Kosovo Albanians, so what compromise have they put forward, Serbia is just changing the way it is saying no to Kosovo becoming independent in the hope the West will be taken in by their "Flexible apporoach".

Serbia clearly expects the K Albanians to be the ones to make all the compromises.

Wouldn't their time have been better spent in the negiations, getting a better deal for the K Serbs, including maybe autonomy for them within the new Kosovo