Congratulations on easily the most logical and objective post I have read here on the Kosovo issue.
Also congratulations for being able to write coherent English, unlike most of the 'educated' political analysts that post on this forum.
I think all this bickering about Kosovo's future status should come to an end. Albanian side puts forth arguments like these: http://www.newkosovareport.com/Arianit-Dobruna/Twelve-answers-to-arguments-against-independence.html
While the Serbs claim territorial integrity.
Why don't all people start compromising instead of wasting more time and making people suffer more.
Serbia is trying really hard to prove that it did what it could to stop Kosovo from being independent. It will keep struggling until the day Kosovo declares independence, and the US recognizes it. Afterwards, which is quite soon, we should try and improve our relations as neighbors. More negotiations? Definitely after independence, as there is a lot to talk about.
P.S. To those idealizing the importance of International Law and the UN, I have an advise: Look at who is claiming to fight for "international law" in the case of Kosovo, and compare it to their previous and current actions. Just one among many hints: Russia's continued harrasment of Georgia, and it's support for seperatist movements there.
Some things sound so paradoxical. In reality, they don't have to be.
Well since we are talking about FACTS lets go take a look.FACT-Albanians used terrorism against Serbian police and civillians to cause a military reaction.
FACT the KLA killed and intimidated its own ethnic group for working with the legitimate Serbian government.
FACT Crna Gora was encouraged to seperate from Serbia and Montenegrians living in Serbia were not allowed to vote while Muslims Kosovo and Bosnian living in Crna Gora were allowed to place absentee ballots to get the 55% majority thus seperating from Serbia dissolving Yugoslavia and trying to go around 1244 since 1244 related to Yugoslavia.
FACT Serbs have been killed and cleansed with not one person being punished under NATO watch.Serb churches have been destroyed and attacked with rockets. FACT Albanians have used blackmail saying there will be violence if they do not get what they want. FACT Kosovo is not econimically viable and depends on massive outside donation.FACT drug trafficking,prostitution and smuggling is a huge problem.FACT war criminals are running politics.FACT rather than negotiating Albanians are just running out the clock since the west has said no matter what the negotiations yield the end result wil be independence.FACT Albanians cannot guarantee Serbian protection while under NATO/UN administration I have more if you care to listen.
Serbia will opt diplomacy as a last resort before but this will not be the ultimate resort.
(Princip, UK, 3 December 2007 20:30)
word playing or are you trying to say something?
talks have failed, are we surprised? Lets move on.
"Washington and almost all EU member states support Kosovo's independence from Serbia as the best option for stability in the Balkans and leaders of Kosovo's 90-percent Albanian majority say they will declare it within months.
Ischinger told the Serb daily Blic that a unilateral declaration of independence was one possible scenario.
"I believe this will be coordinated as much as possible with the EU, U.S. and others," he said. "One thing is certain: the status quo is unsustainable and a decision is needed."-Reuters
Nice NOW Kosova will declare Independence by the end of 2007 or begining of 2008...deal done..serbia can keep talking to talk and Kosova dose the talk to walk towards the EU...God Forbid,Serbia provokes violence..they only going to cause harm to Serbia...and even if Serbia KEEPS Kosova is still going to be harm for Serbia, what are they going to do with KOSOVA?
Name one thing in my comment that was rasistical. Half of my comment was censored and do not know why, really since there was nothing offending. If you name one word that portray rasizm in my comment I buy you a lunch first time you visit Serbia
Kate,
Can you enlight us why Serbia can't take full control of Kosova in the legal point of view?
I am sure that you understand that my question is not a naive one.
I have said in the past here many time that when it comes to the Status of Kosova issue these negotiation would be a waste of time. You still keep on reading the Resolution 1244 with Serbian glasses. Like many Serbs here you forget about the history of Kosova and the real FACTS. When I talk about real FACTS I am talking about that Kosova has been physically independent since 1999. When I am talking about real FACTS I am talking about Serbia being FORCED OUT of Kosova. When I talk about real FACTS I mean that Serbia was forced not to have any influence in Kosova's life. When we are talking about REAL FACTS referring the compliance of the UN Resolution 1244 it refers to former Yugoslavia which as you might know doesn't exist anymore. When I am talking about real FACTS I am referring to Serbia's attitude to threatening the Kosovar Serbs not to participate in local, parliamentary election in Kosova. When I am talking about real FACTS I mean that Serbia unilaterely declared in its hasty Constitution Kosova being part of Serbia while the negotiations led by President Ahtisari were taking place. I have got some more REAL FACTS if you wish to listen.
BMRusila, there's nothing rasistical in your comments. But they are so original.
"It is more than obvious that EU want to return all these Albanians with no status all over Europe and even USA. It is very clear that EU wants Serbia within its family without Kosovo and they even do not hide it. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia enter EU same time as Croatia.
The more EU insist on breaching the law the more I am sure that there is a huge reason for such an act. The reason is that EU does not want great number of continuously unsatisfied Albanians within the Union."
So if I'm not wrong you really think that EU is making an indipendent Kosovo in order to bring back there all the sans-papiers Albanians, cleaning the terrain (maybe the right term is ethnic cleansing)for the early Serbia's entry in the EU.
It is not rasistical, be sure. But it is strange anyway. How should your cancelled parts be? Congratulations to B92 for giving the possibility to all of us.
I am not a Kosovar Albanian but one thing I would like to say. I have read many of the comments from the Serbian politicians. With this kind of polititians I would not co-live even a single day after the 10th of December. Even "further talks" without a mutual respect and recognition would be a waste of time. The time now is working in Kosova's favour. Good luck to all the Kosovars. Soon you will have an easy access to the Adriatic and to the West.
Two statements.
1) The reason for this 120 day extension that was undertaken by the contact group was to see who had the upper hand in the EU foreign affairs (US and the Western EU countries) or the Russian and their oligarchs using scare tactics, threats, and blackmail. For the second time in a row, we have another EU official (after Ahtisaari last spring) stressing that there are no possible negotiable solutions to the Kosovo situation, ie conditional independence for Kosovo is the only possible and logical outcome. When Putin came to the US to visit President Bush at their mini-summit in June, he told a reporter "Let the games begin!" Well guess what, the US and Western EU allies took notice, and game over... Russia looses again! No surprise really, once a looser always a looser. The EU will overcome their minor hurdles, and recognize Kosovo in due time, with the suport of the true superpower in today's world, the US.
2) As to Mr. Karachenko's point about these being the most successfull negotiations since 1999, let me remind him and the readers on this blog, that those negotiations were unsuccessful as well (for the Serbs and the Russians of course).
The tangled web is in fact being weaved by the US and a "few" EU states who believe the Russians will just back off to help them out of their own self made trap/web of deceit.
Serbia is willing for the jaw-jaw to continue and has said it would not do anthing violent - please understand that an Illegal unilateral declaraion which is not immediatly nullified by the UN which is obligated by its resolution 1244. If the US and a "few" EU act against its UN resolution then it will not be Serbia that has acted in a violent manner and Serbia will opt diplomacy as a last resort before but this will not be the ultimate resort.
it doesn't work for you but it sure works for us :)
lets not disband the world organization here just because kosovo can never be its member. we need a more realistic, sober approach to things.
Just yesterday, Isreal has refused to accept a deadline for a negotiated settlement between themselves and their Palestinian counterparts. After 3 Wars, countless engagements, suicide attacks, assassinations, and thousands of casualties that keeps rising, NO DEADLINES. Outside of the obvious that it's Isreal I'm making a comparison with, it certainly demonstrates clearly that the US has alternative motives and standards, pages of music from which the "rest of us" need to dance and sing to.
Without a negotiated settlement that both sides can accept, the region going to be doomed into a continues struggle...with no victories...only casualties.
If this game of 'Chicken' continues the UN will end up like the League of Nations before it - being disbanded and replaced.
(kate, 3 December 2007 13:22)
Here I agree with you Kate - it's a clear fact that the UN (shaped after WWII as an outcome of the then bipolar world) doesn't fit any longer to the today non-ideological, multipolar reality.
The failure to resolve
Kosovo's status et sim. due to the veto-system in a non-idelogical multipolar world clearly shows this insufficiency.
UN even fails to resolve even global problems, such as the global warming or the global hunger/poverty.
Whether to disband and replace it, or only reform it, any option is open.
The problem is that, apart praising the peace, the whole world doesn't seem to share today the same values: while agreeing that peace is good and war is bad, here in Europe we privilege human rights above everything (and we're all happy it's like that), just outside Europe (or, considering Russia an European land, even inside Europe) human rights are not on the top of social values.
The only certainty: the today UN doesn't work!
What to do: maybe a diversified approach to different realities could be the answer. The success in Kosovo and the failure in Iraq teach this lesson.
Kate mentioned that Allied nations being thankful to Serbs that lost their life’s during the WWII to which I agree I am thank full too
However, I would like to bring to light the massacre of Tivar(Bari) in which 4500 Albanian antifascist troops where slaughtered by the partisans.
Yugoslavian passport was made valuable by Tito very. It lost its value once Serbia started its wars.
Danube was important during the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman rule of Serbia. Once these two power break into small states of clans Danube importance felt down.
Cyprus banks are holders of Serbia dirty money. Serbian mafia launder money there.
If corruption, money laundering and human rights are grounds for one state creation that Serbia and Cyprus should give up their status if state.
Pyrros, if it wasent for western counries you would have been communist until late 80s.
bmrusila: I only hope B92 gives me the chance to reply to your racist posting. I was tempted to tell you to be ashamed, but it would be of little use for someone thinking the way you do. Once again you show your nature and misguided superiority complex which are at the heard of the K-Albanians desire to become free of Serbia. I hope it is due to frustration at losing Kosova and that you are not really like that. But if that is really what you think why would you want Kosova and its Albanian "nuisance" to be part of Serbia?
Kate:
Read bmrusila's posting and it will probably become clear to you why we can't live under Serb rule, why any sort of independence is better than autonomy under a regime that thinks of us as undermenschen and why the West is supporting our independence.
As for 1244 like all laws and agreements and resolutions, it is open to interpretation and it is not final. One reading of it is that it envisages a final status to be reached at some point in the future, which is what is happening now. Of course Albanians and Serbs have very different interpretations and in view of Russian objections no one will try to get SC approval for Kosova's independence. Nevertheless I do not think it is illegal and if you read the resolution you would see that it is not so black and white as Belgrade and Moscow would have it.
In any case Kate even if what you are saying was the absolute truth, why would you expect me as an ALbanian to care?
Miri: “Resolution 1244, which only according to serbia's interpretation can hold on to Kosova, will serve nothing to Serbia. That resolution has finished its role and in all practicality is expired.”
Please provide any legal grounding for this statement.
Miri: “As far as Serbia being a trade route or "powerhouse" in the region, Serbia could have been all that if it wanted, but so far Serbia has been only a nuisance and a pain in the neck for international community since WW1.”
Not so long ago having a Yugoslavian passport was as valuable as having a Japanese passport. And even toady, the trade via the Danube is worth a fortune, so I hardly think that you can dismiss it as a valuable trade route.
There are also countries clamouring to set up trade links with Serbia.
As for Serbia having been a ‘pain in the neck’ since WWI, many people from Allied nations remember the brave and tragic sacrifice of millions of Serbian lives in both world wars, and remain grateful and indebted for this.
A visit to the Serb museum in Corfu is a proof of the bravery and the contribution of the entire Serb nation to Europe.
If only any of the readers here would pay a visit to that Museum (or read some history for the matter), to see those "Save our Allies Serbs!" US posters from the time, and read the texts of the photographs...
This visit has been very important to me.
I wish some Americans would visit it and then look at Clinton/Bush in the eye....
and now the end is near and so i face the final curtain...from the infamous sinatra song MY WAY. and from SHAKESPEARE TO BE OR NOT TO BE. now that PUTIN has a landslide victory then its nice to watch the RUSSIA-WEST showdown on this one. is somebody starting the countdown? 7 days to 10 december guys.
2 bmrusila,
you think that you are smrter than 2 million Albanians, we didn't realize that Kosovo will be dump of nuclear weapon, thanks for oppening eyes to Albanians bmrusila.
Kosovo deserve right for SELF-DETERMINATION.
See U in EU. after some, some years.
dont warry, after we get independence, we will find out why? so dont warry, important things first, then others.
we also are wandering why serbia wants our good??
once we get what we want, we will decide what we had in mind
i wander what seidiu is doing in the photo of the mediating troika, not tadic in there.
maybe seidiu will be typing the report, while they speak, so nomatter what they say, he will type only INDEPENDENCE
So, the Jolly Old NATO-Santa brought the independent state to good-boy Albanians for this Christmas. The only problem is the gift is stolen from somebody else. Just to keep it balanced they brought a gift for Serbs as well: some additional “regular rotating” troops to keep them at bay (until they die out anyhow – as that French commanding officers states).
As for this “troika” and their “efforts”; it’s not worth a wasted breath – they are just wrapping-up the paper work and tallying up their travel expenses. The only this The Boss still expect from them is to get him an report that blames the Serbs for …whatever, use your imagination.
HO-HO-HO
Happy Holidays
I think you should take note of Kate's well analysed comments and reflect on your own - Kate remains positive because se is only too aware of all possibilities and would have done a mental cost benefit analysis to all parties.
The bottom line is International norms and laws do the US and a "few" EU states who are dictating for the rest really want to breal international norms and laws and bring instability through such a flagrant act of agression on the UN itself and undermine the credibility of all other Resolutions for the mafiocratic hotbed of crime that has become resulted under NATO tutelage? Is this really a price worth paying ?
It is clear Miri that you are unprepared for all scenario's since you state;
"with China willing to abstain at the worst case"
- you forget they can Veto. Surely this then would be a nightmare scenarion that you cannot even consider!
At least your aware that it needs to go through the UN that shows some analysis but your clearly not willing to accept the likelyhood that China a proud and Sovereign State and this century's Superpower had its Embassy bombed in 1999 by the US (opps we have smart bombs but old maps excuse) and the Chinese very much remember the illegality of that war that killed its own citzens. The silent Dragon is indeed a nightmare scenario you may wish you had planned for but clearly underestimate!
Albanians should really rethink their wish for independence before UN secretary make further decision. There is no doubt that USA with some EU countries will recognise Kosovo. However, did Albanians ever wonder why EU is ready to breach the international law.
It is more than obvious that EU want to return all these Albanians with no status all over Europe and even USA. It is very clear that EU wants Serbia within its family without Kosovo and they even do not hide it. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia enter EU same time as Croatia.
In addition, I am sure that Kosovo will be split up in North and South in order to allow North to merge to Serbia.
The more EU insist on breaching the law the more I am sure that there is a huge reason for such an act. The reason is that EU does not want great number of continuously unsatisfied Albanians within the Union.
Sothern part of Kosovo will end up as an occupied region for at least 100 years. Kosovo will serve as nuclear dump side and weaponary testing. Albanians are really foolish if believe that USA is thier true friend and help them because of some affection towards the Albanians. They should begin with analysis why USA is really helping them, what is their interest????
This Troika was a waste of time. Pristina had intention of talking just sit there with there fingers in there ears. But alot of people have underestimated the influence that Russia has. Alot of people that Kosovo is Unique, i say that is not correct, there are several location that have the same intentions, the basque have been fighting for there share of spain, Turkey wants there part of cyprus, Western Macedonia wants to be part of Albania, there are part of Bosnia that wants to seperated. You can call me pro serb all you want but the reality is this Kosovo business is not unique like some leaders have said. It is the domino that will start all kinds of trouble for Europe and the EU knows this because they will suffer because Russia is going to make them pay dearly during the winter. Why do you thing the EU has been building reserves of Natural Gas?
Kate, are you really an uncured optimist or you really cannot see the reality being unfolded before your own eyes?
Resolution 1244, which only according to serbia's interpretation can hold on to Kosova, will serve nothing to Serbia. That resolution has finished its role and in all practicality is expired. The "gang" of nation supporting independence that you mention are, FYI, at least 20 out 27 members of EU, and at least 3 out 5 SC members, with China willing to abstain at the worst case. As far as Serbia being a trade route or "powerhouse" in the region, Serbia could have been all that if it wanted, but so far Serbia has been only a nuisance and a pain in the neck for international community since WW1. The goal here is to solve Serbia's and Kosova's problem once and for all and the only way to secure an everlasting peace is independence. The other alternative has been proven to fail for over 100 years. The only way Serbia was able to control Kosova, even before 1999, was by force.
"“I regret that the sides did not take advantage of the chance the Troika and the international community gave them to reach an agreement,” the EU representative to the Troika said, pointing out that a compromise would have been a much better solution for Belgrade and Priština than any other scenario. "
I agree with what he says, but now that it's obvious that an agreement cannot be reached, even officially speaking, it would be interesting to see how the UN chief decides to steer this matter. It is a lot of responsibility he bears and I hope he that he makes a sensible decision.
Teni – Russia or any other nation on the Security Council has the right to veto. As I've said numerous times, this right has been used far more by the US and other nations than Russia.
I am not blindly pro Russian and would be happier if it was my own country making a stand, but they are right to veto the forced independence of a province by a gang of nations which just wants things settled to enforce their own agenda.
Resolution 1244 was agreed to by the Security Council and is still valid. If they wish to replace this Resolution with a new one, they have to do so with the agreement of the nation which legally holds the territory in question, and through due process.
The precedent of not only prising away sovereign territory to suit their own means, but also deciding to renege on an earlier Resolution and bypass the right to veto, are just enormous.
Plus, does anyone really believe that a dependent province which is riddled with problems, is more important than its sovereign nation which is in the heart of Europe and already well established? Serbia is a major trade route, apart from anything else.
Kosovo is just being used to test boundaries - legal, geographic and political. Even if independence does come, it will have so many conditions and international controls that it will be like an EU protectorate forever. It is naïve to think that this is a favourable option.
Nobody expects Serbia to regain full control of Kosovo, but there has to be a compromise where is remains legally part of Serbia but with autonomy acceptable to both parties.
If this game of 'Chicken' continues the UN will end up like the League of Nations before it - being disbanded and replaced.
So the Troika whose responsibility it was to solve the final status of Kosova will present a final report that says nothing of that final status. No surprise there but it makes you wonder what the point of the Troika was in the first place. In any case although I appreciate the Troika's respect for formalities and protocol, one would have to be either deaf or in denial not to know what the final outcome is gonna be: independence. The Americans have said that much, the Brits, the French and even the EU has made it clear that independence is unavoidable. Putin on the other hand, emboldened by his "success" in elections reminiscent of Soviet times will not budge, but it is becoming clear that the West does not care that much about what that dictator in the making says anymore. The only thing the West are asking for is that the K-Albanians postpone it by a few weeks after December 10th. I guess that will be cause enough for Princip and some others here to make jokes about independence being postponed till 20008, or about me excelling at holding my breath etc, but I would describe that sort of attitude by using an Albanian saying that goes something like "since you don't want to cry, you might as well have a laugh".
Teni – Russia or any other nation on the Security Council has the right to veto. As I've said numerous times, this right has been used far more by the US and other nations than Russia.
I am not blindly pro Russian and would be happier if it was my own country making a stand, but they are right to veto the forced independence of a province by a gang of nations which just wants things settled to enforce their own agenda.
Resolution 1244 was agreed to by the Security Council and is still valid. If they wish to replace this Resolution with a new one, they have to do so with the agreement of the nation which legally holds the territory in question, and through due process.
The precedent of not only prising away sovereign territory to suit their own means, but also deciding to renege on an earlier Resolution and bypass the right to veto, are just enormous.
Plus, does anyone really believe that a dependent province which is riddled with problems, is more important than its sovereign nation which is in the heart of Europe and already well established? Serbia is a major trade route, apart from anything else.
Kosovo is just being used to test boundaries - legal, geographic and political. Even if independence does come, it will have so many conditions and international controls that it will be like an EU protectorate forever. It is naïve to think that this is a favourable option.
Nobody expects Serbia to regain full control of Kosovo, but there has to be a compromise where is remains legally part of Serbia but with autonomy acceptable to both parties.
If this game of 'Chicken' continues the UN will end up like the League of Nations before it - being disbanded and replaced.
Miri: “Resolution 1244, which only according to serbia's interpretation can hold on to Kosova, will serve nothing to Serbia. That resolution has finished its role and in all practicality is expired.”
Please provide any legal grounding for this statement.
Miri: “As far as Serbia being a trade route or "powerhouse" in the region, Serbia could have been all that if it wanted, but so far Serbia has been only a nuisance and a pain in the neck for international community since WW1.”
Not so long ago having a Yugoslavian passport was as valuable as having a Japanese passport. And even toady, the trade via the Danube is worth a fortune, so I hardly think that you can dismiss it as a valuable trade route.
There are also countries clamouring to set up trade links with Serbia.
As for Serbia having been a ‘pain in the neck’ since WWI, many people from Allied nations remember the brave and tragic sacrifice of millions of Serbian lives in both world wars, and remain grateful and indebted for this.
Well since we are talking about FACTS lets go take a look.FACT-Albanians used terrorism against Serbian police and civillians to cause a military reaction.
FACT the KLA killed and intimidated its own ethnic group for working with the legitimate Serbian government.
FACT Crna Gora was encouraged to seperate from Serbia and Montenegrians living in Serbia were not allowed to vote while Muslims Kosovo and Bosnian living in Crna Gora were allowed to place absentee ballots to get the 55% majority thus seperating from Serbia dissolving Yugoslavia and trying to go around 1244 since 1244 related to Yugoslavia.
FACT Serbs have been killed and cleansed with not one person being punished under NATO watch.Serb churches have been destroyed and attacked with rockets. FACT Albanians have used blackmail saying there will be violence if they do not get what they want. FACT Kosovo is not econimically viable and depends on massive outside donation.FACT drug trafficking,prostitution and smuggling is a huge problem.FACT war criminals are running politics.FACT rather than negotiating Albanians are just running out the clock since the west has said no matter what the negotiations yield the end result wil be independence.FACT Albanians cannot guarantee Serbian protection while under NATO/UN administration I have more if you care to listen.
So the Troika whose responsibility it was to solve the final status of Kosova will present a final report that says nothing of that final status. No surprise there but it makes you wonder what the point of the Troika was in the first place. In any case although I appreciate the Troika's respect for formalities and protocol, one would have to be either deaf or in denial not to know what the final outcome is gonna be: independence. The Americans have said that much, the Brits, the French and even the EU has made it clear that independence is unavoidable. Putin on the other hand, emboldened by his "success" in elections reminiscent of Soviet times will not budge, but it is becoming clear that the West does not care that much about what that dictator in the making says anymore. The only thing the West are asking for is that the K-Albanians postpone it by a few weeks after December 10th. I guess that will be cause enough for Princip and some others here to make jokes about independence being postponed till 20008, or about me excelling at holding my breath etc, but I would describe that sort of attitude by using an Albanian saying that goes something like "since you don't want to cry, you might as well have a laugh".
Albanians should really rethink their wish for independence before UN secretary make further decision. There is no doubt that USA with some EU countries will recognise Kosovo. However, did Albanians ever wonder why EU is ready to breach the international law.
It is more than obvious that EU want to return all these Albanians with no status all over Europe and even USA. It is very clear that EU wants Serbia within its family without Kosovo and they even do not hide it. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia enter EU same time as Croatia.
In addition, I am sure that Kosovo will be split up in North and South in order to allow North to merge to Serbia.
The more EU insist on breaching the law the more I am sure that there is a huge reason for such an act. The reason is that EU does not want great number of continuously unsatisfied Albanians within the Union.
Sothern part of Kosovo will end up as an occupied region for at least 100 years. Kosovo will serve as nuclear dump side and weaponary testing. Albanians are really foolish if believe that USA is thier true friend and help them because of some affection towards the Albanians. They should begin with analysis why USA is really helping them, what is their interest????
Kate, are you really an uncured optimist or you really cannot see the reality being unfolded before your own eyes?
Resolution 1244, which only according to serbia's interpretation can hold on to Kosova, will serve nothing to Serbia. That resolution has finished its role and in all practicality is expired. The "gang" of nation supporting independence that you mention are, FYI, at least 20 out 27 members of EU, and at least 3 out 5 SC members, with China willing to abstain at the worst case. As far as Serbia being a trade route or "powerhouse" in the region, Serbia could have been all that if it wanted, but so far Serbia has been only a nuisance and a pain in the neck for international community since WW1. The goal here is to solve Serbia's and Kosova's problem once and for all and the only way to secure an everlasting peace is independence. The other alternative has been proven to fail for over 100 years. The only way Serbia was able to control Kosova, even before 1999, was by force.
I think you should take note of Kate's well analysed comments and reflect on your own - Kate remains positive because se is only too aware of all possibilities and would have done a mental cost benefit analysis to all parties.
The bottom line is International norms and laws do the US and a "few" EU states who are dictating for the rest really want to breal international norms and laws and bring instability through such a flagrant act of agression on the UN itself and undermine the credibility of all other Resolutions for the mafiocratic hotbed of crime that has become resulted under NATO tutelage? Is this really a price worth paying ?
It is clear Miri that you are unprepared for all scenario's since you state;
"with China willing to abstain at the worst case"
- you forget they can Veto. Surely this then would be a nightmare scenarion that you cannot even consider!
At least your aware that it needs to go through the UN that shows some analysis but your clearly not willing to accept the likelyhood that China a proud and Sovereign State and this century's Superpower had its Embassy bombed in 1999 by the US (opps we have smart bombs but old maps excuse) and the Chinese very much remember the illegality of that war that killed its own citzens. The silent Dragon is indeed a nightmare scenario you may wish you had planned for but clearly underestimate!
A visit to the Serb museum in Corfu is a proof of the bravery and the contribution of the entire Serb nation to Europe.
If only any of the readers here would pay a visit to that Museum (or read some history for the matter), to see those "Save our Allies Serbs!" US posters from the time, and read the texts of the photographs...
This visit has been very important to me.
I wish some Americans would visit it and then look at Clinton/Bush in the eye....
it doesn't work for you but it sure works for us :)
lets not disband the world organization here just because kosovo can never be its member. we need a more realistic, sober approach to things.
So, the Jolly Old NATO-Santa brought the independent state to good-boy Albanians for this Christmas. The only problem is the gift is stolen from somebody else. Just to keep it balanced they brought a gift for Serbs as well: some additional “regular rotating” troops to keep them at bay (until they die out anyhow – as that French commanding officers states).
As for this “troika” and their “efforts”; it’s not worth a wasted breath – they are just wrapping-up the paper work and tallying up their travel expenses. The only this The Boss still expect from them is to get him an report that blames the Serbs for …whatever, use your imagination.
HO-HO-HO
Happy Holidays
Just yesterday, Isreal has refused to accept a deadline for a negotiated settlement between themselves and their Palestinian counterparts. After 3 Wars, countless engagements, suicide attacks, assassinations, and thousands of casualties that keeps rising, NO DEADLINES. Outside of the obvious that it's Isreal I'm making a comparison with, it certainly demonstrates clearly that the US has alternative motives and standards, pages of music from which the "rest of us" need to dance and sing to.
Without a negotiated settlement that both sides can accept, the region going to be doomed into a continues struggle...with no victories...only casualties.
The tangled web is in fact being weaved by the US and a "few" EU states who believe the Russians will just back off to help them out of their own self made trap/web of deceit.
Serbia is willing for the jaw-jaw to continue and has said it would not do anthing violent - please understand that an Illegal unilateral declaraion which is not immediatly nullified by the UN which is obligated by its resolution 1244. If the US and a "few" EU act against its UN resolution then it will not be Serbia that has acted in a violent manner and Serbia will opt diplomacy as a last resort before but this will not be the ultimate resort.
If this game of 'Chicken' continues the UN will end up like the League of Nations before it - being disbanded and replaced.
(kate, 3 December 2007 13:22)
Here I agree with you Kate - it's a clear fact that the UN (shaped after WWII as an outcome of the then bipolar world) doesn't fit any longer to the today non-ideological, multipolar reality.
The failure to resolve
Kosovo's status et sim. due to the veto-system in a non-idelogical multipolar world clearly shows this insufficiency.
UN even fails to resolve even global problems, such as the global warming or the global hunger/poverty.
Whether to disband and replace it, or only reform it, any option is open.
The problem is that, apart praising the peace, the whole world doesn't seem to share today the same values: while agreeing that peace is good and war is bad, here in Europe we privilege human rights above everything (and we're all happy it's like that), just outside Europe (or, considering Russia an European land, even inside Europe) human rights are not on the top of social values.
The only certainty: the today UN doesn't work!
What to do: maybe a diversified approach to different realities could be the answer. The success in Kosovo and the failure in Iraq teach this lesson.
Name one thing in my comment that was rasistical. Half of my comment was censored and do not know why, really since there was nothing offending. If you name one word that portray rasizm in my comment I buy you a lunch first time you visit Serbia
bmrusila: I only hope B92 gives me the chance to reply to your racist posting. I was tempted to tell you to be ashamed, but it would be of little use for someone thinking the way you do. Once again you show your nature and misguided superiority complex which are at the heard of the K-Albanians desire to become free of Serbia. I hope it is due to frustration at losing Kosova and that you are not really like that. But if that is really what you think why would you want Kosova and its Albanian "nuisance" to be part of Serbia?
Kate:
Read bmrusila's posting and it will probably become clear to you why we can't live under Serb rule, why any sort of independence is better than autonomy under a regime that thinks of us as undermenschen and why the West is supporting our independence.
As for 1244 like all laws and agreements and resolutions, it is open to interpretation and it is not final. One reading of it is that it envisages a final status to be reached at some point in the future, which is what is happening now. Of course Albanians and Serbs have very different interpretations and in view of Russian objections no one will try to get SC approval for Kosova's independence. Nevertheless I do not think it is illegal and if you read the resolution you would see that it is not so black and white as Belgrade and Moscow would have it.
In any case Kate even if what you are saying was the absolute truth, why would you expect me as an ALbanian to care?
Cyprus banks are holders of Serbia dirty money. Serbian mafia launder money there.
If corruption, money laundering and human rights are grounds for one state creation that Serbia and Cyprus should give up their status if state.
Pyrros, if it wasent for western counries you would have been communist until late 80s.
Kate,
Can you enlight us why Serbia can't take full control of Kosova in the legal point of view?
I am sure that you understand that my question is not a naive one.
I have said in the past here many time that when it comes to the Status of Kosova issue these negotiation would be a waste of time. You still keep on reading the Resolution 1244 with Serbian glasses. Like many Serbs here you forget about the history of Kosova and the real FACTS. When I talk about real FACTS I am talking about that Kosova has been physically independent since 1999. When I am talking about real FACTS I am talking about Serbia being FORCED OUT of Kosova. When I talk about real FACTS I mean that Serbia was forced not to have any influence in Kosova's life. When we are talking about REAL FACTS referring the compliance of the UN Resolution 1244 it refers to former Yugoslavia which as you might know doesn't exist anymore. When I am talking about real FACTS I am referring to Serbia's attitude to threatening the Kosovar Serbs not to participate in local, parliamentary election in Kosova. When I am talking about real FACTS I mean that Serbia unilaterely declared in its hasty Constitution Kosova being part of Serbia while the negotiations led by President Ahtisari were taking place. I have got some more REAL FACTS if you wish to listen.
Nice NOW Kosova will declare Independence by the end of 2007 or begining of 2008...deal done..serbia can keep talking to talk and Kosova dose the talk to walk towards the EU...God Forbid,Serbia provokes violence..they only going to cause harm to Serbia...and even if Serbia KEEPS Kosova is still going to be harm for Serbia, what are they going to do with KOSOVA?
Two statements.
1) The reason for this 120 day extension that was undertaken by the contact group was to see who had the upper hand in the EU foreign affairs (US and the Western EU countries) or the Russian and their oligarchs using scare tactics, threats, and blackmail. For the second time in a row, we have another EU official (after Ahtisaari last spring) stressing that there are no possible negotiable solutions to the Kosovo situation, ie conditional independence for Kosovo is the only possible and logical outcome. When Putin came to the US to visit President Bush at their mini-summit in June, he told a reporter "Let the games begin!" Well guess what, the US and Western EU allies took notice, and game over... Russia looses again! No surprise really, once a looser always a looser. The EU will overcome their minor hurdles, and recognize Kosovo in due time, with the suport of the true superpower in today's world, the US.
2) As to Mr. Karachenko's point about these being the most successfull negotiations since 1999, let me remind him and the readers on this blog, that those negotiations were unsuccessful as well (for the Serbs and the Russians of course).
This Troika was a waste of time. Pristina had intention of talking just sit there with there fingers in there ears. But alot of people have underestimated the influence that Russia has. Alot of people that Kosovo is Unique, i say that is not correct, there are several location that have the same intentions, the basque have been fighting for there share of spain, Turkey wants there part of cyprus, Western Macedonia wants to be part of Albania, there are part of Bosnia that wants to seperated. You can call me pro serb all you want but the reality is this Kosovo business is not unique like some leaders have said. It is the domino that will start all kinds of trouble for Europe and the EU knows this because they will suffer because Russia is going to make them pay dearly during the winter. Why do you thing the EU has been building reserves of Natural Gas?
dont warry, after we get independence, we will find out why? so dont warry, important things first, then others.
we also are wandering why serbia wants our good??
once we get what we want, we will decide what we had in mind
i wander what seidiu is doing in the photo of the mediating troika, not tadic in there.
maybe seidiu will be typing the report, while they speak, so nomatter what they say, he will type only INDEPENDENCE
2 bmrusila,
you think that you are smrter than 2 million Albanians, we didn't realize that Kosovo will be dump of nuclear weapon, thanks for oppening eyes to Albanians bmrusila.
Kosovo deserve right for SELF-DETERMINATION.
See U in EU. after some, some years.
I am not a Kosovar Albanian but one thing I would like to say. I have read many of the comments from the Serbian politicians. With this kind of polititians I would not co-live even a single day after the 10th of December. Even "further talks" without a mutual respect and recognition would be a waste of time. The time now is working in Kosova's favour. Good luck to all the Kosovars. Soon you will have an easy access to the Adriatic and to the West.
"“I regret that the sides did not take advantage of the chance the Troika and the international community gave them to reach an agreement,” the EU representative to the Troika said, pointing out that a compromise would have been a much better solution for Belgrade and Priština than any other scenario. "
I agree with what he says, but now that it's obvious that an agreement cannot be reached, even officially speaking, it would be interesting to see how the UN chief decides to steer this matter. It is a lot of responsibility he bears and I hope he that he makes a sensible decision.
Kate mentioned that Allied nations being thankful to Serbs that lost their life’s during the WWII to which I agree I am thank full too
However, I would like to bring to light the massacre of Tivar(Bari) in which 4500 Albanian antifascist troops where slaughtered by the partisans.
Yugoslavian passport was made valuable by Tito very. It lost its value once Serbia started its wars.
Danube was important during the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman rule of Serbia. Once these two power break into small states of clans Danube importance felt down.
BMRusila, there's nothing rasistical in your comments. But they are so original.
"It is more than obvious that EU want to return all these Albanians with no status all over Europe and even USA. It is very clear that EU wants Serbia within its family without Kosovo and they even do not hide it. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia enter EU same time as Croatia.
The more EU insist on breaching the law the more I am sure that there is a huge reason for such an act. The reason is that EU does not want great number of continuously unsatisfied Albanians within the Union."
So if I'm not wrong you really think that EU is making an indipendent Kosovo in order to bring back there all the sans-papiers Albanians, cleaning the terrain (maybe the right term is ethnic cleansing)for the early Serbia's entry in the EU.
It is not rasistical, be sure. But it is strange anyway. How should your cancelled parts be? Congratulations to B92 for giving the possibility to all of us.
Serbia will opt diplomacy as a last resort before but this will not be the ultimate resort.
(Princip, UK, 3 December 2007 20:30)
word playing or are you trying to say something?
talks have failed, are we surprised? Lets move on.
"Washington and almost all EU member states support Kosovo's independence from Serbia as the best option for stability in the Balkans and leaders of Kosovo's 90-percent Albanian majority say they will declare it within months.
Ischinger told the Serb daily Blic that a unilateral declaration of independence was one possible scenario.
"I believe this will be coordinated as much as possible with the EU, U.S. and others," he said. "One thing is certain: the status quo is unsustainable and a decision is needed."-Reuters
Serbia is trying really hard to prove that it did what it could to stop Kosovo from being independent. It will keep struggling until the day Kosovo declares independence, and the US recognizes it. Afterwards, which is quite soon, we should try and improve our relations as neighbors. More negotiations? Definitely after independence, as there is a lot to talk about.
P.S. To those idealizing the importance of International Law and the UN, I have an advise: Look at who is claiming to fight for "international law" in the case of Kosovo, and compare it to their previous and current actions. Just one among many hints: Russia's continued harrasment of Georgia, and it's support for seperatist movements there.
Some things sound so paradoxical. In reality, they don't have to be.
I think all this bickering about Kosovo's future status should come to an end. Albanian side puts forth arguments like these: http://www.newkosovareport.com/Arianit-Dobruna/Twelve-answers-to-arguments-against-independence.html
While the Serbs claim territorial integrity.
Why don't all people start compromising instead of wasting more time and making people suffer more.
and now the end is near and so i face the final curtain...from the infamous sinatra song MY WAY. and from SHAKESPEARE TO BE OR NOT TO BE. now that PUTIN has a landslide victory then its nice to watch the RUSSIA-WEST showdown on this one. is somebody starting the countdown? 7 days to 10 december guys.
Congratulations on easily the most logical and objective post I have read here on the Kosovo issue.
Also congratulations for being able to write coherent English, unlike most of the 'educated' political analysts that post on this forum.
dont warry, after we get independence, we will find out why? so dont warry, important things first, then others.
we also are wandering why serbia wants our good??
once we get what we want, we will decide what we had in mind
So the Troika whose responsibility it was to solve the final status of Kosova will present a final report that says nothing of that final status. No surprise there but it makes you wonder what the point of the Troika was in the first place. In any case although I appreciate the Troika's respect for formalities and protocol, one would have to be either deaf or in denial not to know what the final outcome is gonna be: independence. The Americans have said that much, the Brits, the French and even the EU has made it clear that independence is unavoidable. Putin on the other hand, emboldened by his "success" in elections reminiscent of Soviet times will not budge, but it is becoming clear that the West does not care that much about what that dictator in the making says anymore. The only thing the West are asking for is that the K-Albanians postpone it by a few weeks after December 10th. I guess that will be cause enough for Princip and some others here to make jokes about independence being postponed till 20008, or about me excelling at holding my breath etc, but I would describe that sort of attitude by using an Albanian saying that goes something like "since you don't want to cry, you might as well have a laugh".
Teni – Russia or any other nation on the Security Council has the right to veto. As I've said numerous times, this right has been used far more by the US and other nations than Russia.
I am not blindly pro Russian and would be happier if it was my own country making a stand, but they are right to veto the forced independence of a province by a gang of nations which just wants things settled to enforce their own agenda.
Resolution 1244 was agreed to by the Security Council and is still valid. If they wish to replace this Resolution with a new one, they have to do so with the agreement of the nation which legally holds the territory in question, and through due process.
The precedent of not only prising away sovereign territory to suit their own means, but also deciding to renege on an earlier Resolution and bypass the right to veto, are just enormous.
Plus, does anyone really believe that a dependent province which is riddled with problems, is more important than its sovereign nation which is in the heart of Europe and already well established? Serbia is a major trade route, apart from anything else.
Kosovo is just being used to test boundaries - legal, geographic and political. Even if independence does come, it will have so many conditions and international controls that it will be like an EU protectorate forever. It is naïve to think that this is a favourable option.
Nobody expects Serbia to regain full control of Kosovo, but there has to be a compromise where is remains legally part of Serbia but with autonomy acceptable to both parties.
If this game of 'Chicken' continues the UN will end up like the League of Nations before it - being disbanded and replaced.
Albanians should really rethink their wish for independence before UN secretary make further decision. There is no doubt that USA with some EU countries will recognise Kosovo. However, did Albanians ever wonder why EU is ready to breach the international law.
It is more than obvious that EU want to return all these Albanians with no status all over Europe and even USA. It is very clear that EU wants Serbia within its family without Kosovo and they even do not hide it. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia enter EU same time as Croatia.
In addition, I am sure that Kosovo will be split up in North and South in order to allow North to merge to Serbia.
The more EU insist on breaching the law the more I am sure that there is a huge reason for such an act. The reason is that EU does not want great number of continuously unsatisfied Albanians within the Union.
Sothern part of Kosovo will end up as an occupied region for at least 100 years. Kosovo will serve as nuclear dump side and weaponary testing. Albanians are really foolish if believe that USA is thier true friend and help them because of some affection towards the Albanians. They should begin with analysis why USA is really helping them, what is their interest????
Kate, are you really an uncured optimist or you really cannot see the reality being unfolded before your own eyes?
Resolution 1244, which only according to serbia's interpretation can hold on to Kosova, will serve nothing to Serbia. That resolution has finished its role and in all practicality is expired. The "gang" of nation supporting independence that you mention are, FYI, at least 20 out 27 members of EU, and at least 3 out 5 SC members, with China willing to abstain at the worst case. As far as Serbia being a trade route or "powerhouse" in the region, Serbia could have been all that if it wanted, but so far Serbia has been only a nuisance and a pain in the neck for international community since WW1. The goal here is to solve Serbia's and Kosova's problem once and for all and the only way to secure an everlasting peace is independence. The other alternative has been proven to fail for over 100 years. The only way Serbia was able to control Kosova, even before 1999, was by force.
This Troika was a waste of time. Pristina had intention of talking just sit there with there fingers in there ears. But alot of people have underestimated the influence that Russia has. Alot of people that Kosovo is Unique, i say that is not correct, there are several location that have the same intentions, the basque have been fighting for there share of spain, Turkey wants there part of cyprus, Western Macedonia wants to be part of Albania, there are part of Bosnia that wants to seperated. You can call me pro serb all you want but the reality is this Kosovo business is not unique like some leaders have said. It is the domino that will start all kinds of trouble for Europe and the EU knows this because they will suffer because Russia is going to make them pay dearly during the winter. Why do you thing the EU has been building reserves of Natural Gas?
2 bmrusila,
you think that you are smrter than 2 million Albanians, we didn't realize that Kosovo will be dump of nuclear weapon, thanks for oppening eyes to Albanians bmrusila.
Kosovo deserve right for SELF-DETERMINATION.
See U in EU. after some, some years.
bmrusila: I only hope B92 gives me the chance to reply to your racist posting. I was tempted to tell you to be ashamed, but it would be of little use for someone thinking the way you do. Once again you show your nature and misguided superiority complex which are at the heard of the K-Albanians desire to become free of Serbia. I hope it is due to frustration at losing Kosova and that you are not really like that. But if that is really what you think why would you want Kosova and its Albanian "nuisance" to be part of Serbia?
Kate:
Read bmrusila's posting and it will probably become clear to you why we can't live under Serb rule, why any sort of independence is better than autonomy under a regime that thinks of us as undermenschen and why the West is supporting our independence.
As for 1244 like all laws and agreements and resolutions, it is open to interpretation and it is not final. One reading of it is that it envisages a final status to be reached at some point in the future, which is what is happening now. Of course Albanians and Serbs have very different interpretations and in view of Russian objections no one will try to get SC approval for Kosova's independence. Nevertheless I do not think it is illegal and if you read the resolution you would see that it is not so black and white as Belgrade and Moscow would have it.
In any case Kate even if what you are saying was the absolute truth, why would you expect me as an ALbanian to care?
Cyprus banks are holders of Serbia dirty money. Serbian mafia launder money there.
If corruption, money laundering and human rights are grounds for one state creation that Serbia and Cyprus should give up their status if state.
Pyrros, if it wasent for western counries you would have been communist until late 80s.
If this game of 'Chicken' continues the UN will end up like the League of Nations before it - being disbanded and replaced.
(kate, 3 December 2007 13:22)
Here I agree with you Kate - it's a clear fact that the UN (shaped after WWII as an outcome of the then bipolar world) doesn't fit any longer to the today non-ideological, multipolar reality.
The failure to resolve
Kosovo's status et sim. due to the veto-system in a non-idelogical multipolar world clearly shows this insufficiency.
UN even fails to resolve even global problems, such as the global warming or the global hunger/poverty.
Whether to disband and replace it, or only reform it, any option is open.
The problem is that, apart praising the peace, the whole world doesn't seem to share today the same values: while agreeing that peace is good and war is bad, here in Europe we privilege human rights above everything (and we're all happy it's like that), just outside Europe (or, considering Russia an European land, even inside Europe) human rights are not on the top of social values.
The only certainty: the today UN doesn't work!
What to do: maybe a diversified approach to different realities could be the answer. The success in Kosovo and the failure in Iraq teach this lesson.
Kate,
Can you enlight us why Serbia can't take full control of Kosova in the legal point of view?
I am sure that you understand that my question is not a naive one.
I have said in the past here many time that when it comes to the Status of Kosova issue these negotiation would be a waste of time. You still keep on reading the Resolution 1244 with Serbian glasses. Like many Serbs here you forget about the history of Kosova and the real FACTS. When I talk about real FACTS I am talking about that Kosova has been physically independent since 1999. When I am talking about real FACTS I am talking about Serbia being FORCED OUT of Kosova. When I talk about real FACTS I mean that Serbia was forced not to have any influence in Kosova's life. When we are talking about REAL FACTS referring the compliance of the UN Resolution 1244 it refers to former Yugoslavia which as you might know doesn't exist anymore. When I am talking about real FACTS I am referring to Serbia's attitude to threatening the Kosovar Serbs not to participate in local, parliamentary election in Kosova. When I am talking about real FACTS I mean that Serbia unilaterely declared in its hasty Constitution Kosova being part of Serbia while the negotiations led by President Ahtisari were taking place. I have got some more REAL FACTS if you wish to listen.
I am not a Kosovar Albanian but one thing I would like to say. I have read many of the comments from the Serbian politicians. With this kind of polititians I would not co-live even a single day after the 10th of December. Even "further talks" without a mutual respect and recognition would be a waste of time. The time now is working in Kosova's favour. Good luck to all the Kosovars. Soon you will have an easy access to the Adriatic and to the West.
i wander what seidiu is doing in the photo of the mediating troika, not tadic in there.
maybe seidiu will be typing the report, while they speak, so nomatter what they say, he will type only INDEPENDENCE
So, the Jolly Old NATO-Santa brought the independent state to good-boy Albanians for this Christmas. The only problem is the gift is stolen from somebody else. Just to keep it balanced they brought a gift for Serbs as well: some additional “regular rotating” troops to keep them at bay (until they die out anyhow – as that French commanding officers states).
As for this “troika” and their “efforts”; it’s not worth a wasted breath – they are just wrapping-up the paper work and tallying up their travel expenses. The only this The Boss still expect from them is to get him an report that blames the Serbs for …whatever, use your imagination.
HO-HO-HO
Happy Holidays
Two statements.
1) The reason for this 120 day extension that was undertaken by the contact group was to see who had the upper hand in the EU foreign affairs (US and the Western EU countries) or the Russian and their oligarchs using scare tactics, threats, and blackmail. For the second time in a row, we have another EU official (after Ahtisaari last spring) stressing that there are no possible negotiable solutions to the Kosovo situation, ie conditional independence for Kosovo is the only possible and logical outcome. When Putin came to the US to visit President Bush at their mini-summit in June, he told a reporter "Let the games begin!" Well guess what, the US and Western EU allies took notice, and game over... Russia looses again! No surprise really, once a looser always a looser. The EU will overcome their minor hurdles, and recognize Kosovo in due time, with the suport of the true superpower in today's world, the US.
2) As to Mr. Karachenko's point about these being the most successfull negotiations since 1999, let me remind him and the readers on this blog, that those negotiations were unsuccessful as well (for the Serbs and the Russians of course).
Nice NOW Kosova will declare Independence by the end of 2007 or begining of 2008...deal done..serbia can keep talking to talk and Kosova dose the talk to walk towards the EU...God Forbid,Serbia provokes violence..they only going to cause harm to Serbia...and even if Serbia KEEPS Kosova is still going to be harm for Serbia, what are they going to do with KOSOVA?
BMRusila, there's nothing rasistical in your comments. But they are so original.
"It is more than obvious that EU want to return all these Albanians with no status all over Europe and even USA. It is very clear that EU wants Serbia within its family without Kosovo and they even do not hide it. I wouldn't be surprised if Serbia enter EU same time as Croatia.
The more EU insist on breaching the law the more I am sure that there is a huge reason for such an act. The reason is that EU does not want great number of continuously unsatisfied Albanians within the Union."
So if I'm not wrong you really think that EU is making an indipendent Kosovo in order to bring back there all the sans-papiers Albanians, cleaning the terrain (maybe the right term is ethnic cleansing)for the early Serbia's entry in the EU.
It is not rasistical, be sure. But it is strange anyway. How should your cancelled parts be? Congratulations to B92 for giving the possibility to all of us.
Serbia will opt diplomacy as a last resort before but this will not be the ultimate resort.
(Princip, UK, 3 December 2007 20:30)
word playing or are you trying to say something?
talks have failed, are we surprised? Lets move on.
"Washington and almost all EU member states support Kosovo's independence from Serbia as the best option for stability in the Balkans and leaders of Kosovo's 90-percent Albanian majority say they will declare it within months.
Ischinger told the Serb daily Blic that a unilateral declaration of independence was one possible scenario.
"I believe this will be coordinated as much as possible with the EU, U.S. and others," he said. "One thing is certain: the status quo is unsustainable and a decision is needed."-Reuters
Well since we are talking about FACTS lets go take a look.FACT-Albanians used terrorism against Serbian police and civillians to cause a military reaction.
FACT the KLA killed and intimidated its own ethnic group for working with the legitimate Serbian government.
FACT Crna Gora was encouraged to seperate from Serbia and Montenegrians living in Serbia were not allowed to vote while Muslims Kosovo and Bosnian living in Crna Gora were allowed to place absentee ballots to get the 55% majority thus seperating from Serbia dissolving Yugoslavia and trying to go around 1244 since 1244 related to Yugoslavia.
FACT Serbs have been killed and cleansed with not one person being punished under NATO watch.Serb churches have been destroyed and attacked with rockets. FACT Albanians have used blackmail saying there will be violence if they do not get what they want. FACT Kosovo is not econimically viable and depends on massive outside donation.FACT drug trafficking,prostitution and smuggling is a huge problem.FACT war criminals are running politics.FACT rather than negotiating Albanians are just running out the clock since the west has said no matter what the negotiations yield the end result wil be independence.FACT Albanians cannot guarantee Serbian protection while under NATO/UN administration I have more if you care to listen.
and now the end is near and so i face the final curtain...from the infamous sinatra song MY WAY. and from SHAKESPEARE TO BE OR NOT TO BE. now that PUTIN has a landslide victory then its nice to watch the RUSSIA-WEST showdown on this one. is somebody starting the countdown? 7 days to 10 december guys.
Kate mentioned that Allied nations being thankful to Serbs that lost their life’s during the WWII to which I agree I am thank full too
However, I would like to bring to light the massacre of Tivar(Bari) in which 4500 Albanian antifascist troops where slaughtered by the partisans.
Yugoslavian passport was made valuable by Tito very. It lost its value once Serbia started its wars.
Danube was important during the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman rule of Serbia. Once these two power break into small states of clans Danube importance felt down.
Serbia is trying really hard to prove that it did what it could to stop Kosovo from being independent. It will keep struggling until the day Kosovo declares independence, and the US recognizes it. Afterwards, which is quite soon, we should try and improve our relations as neighbors. More negotiations? Definitely after independence, as there is a lot to talk about.
P.S. To those idealizing the importance of International Law and the UN, I have an advise: Look at who is claiming to fight for "international law" in the case of Kosovo, and compare it to their previous and current actions. Just one among many hints: Russia's continued harrasment of Georgia, and it's support for seperatist movements there.
Some things sound so paradoxical. In reality, they don't have to be.
I think you should take note of Kate's well analysed comments and reflect on your own - Kate remains positive because se is only too aware of all possibilities and would have done a mental cost benefit analysis to all parties.
The bottom line is International norms and laws do the US and a "few" EU states who are dictating for the rest really want to breal international norms and laws and bring instability through such a flagrant act of agression on the UN itself and undermine the credibility of all other Resolutions for the mafiocratic hotbed of crime that has become resulted under NATO tutelage? Is this really a price worth paying ?
It is clear Miri that you are unprepared for all scenario's since you state;
"with China willing to abstain at the worst case"
- you forget they can Veto. Surely this then would be a nightmare scenarion that you cannot even consider!
At least your aware that it needs to go through the UN that shows some analysis but your clearly not willing to accept the likelyhood that China a proud and Sovereign State and this century's Superpower had its Embassy bombed in 1999 by the US (opps we have smart bombs but old maps excuse) and the Chinese very much remember the illegality of that war that killed its own citzens. The silent Dragon is indeed a nightmare scenario you may wish you had planned for but clearly underestimate!
Miri: “Resolution 1244, which only according to serbia's interpretation can hold on to Kosova, will serve nothing to Serbia. That resolution has finished its role and in all practicality is expired.”
Please provide any legal grounding for this statement.
Miri: “As far as Serbia being a trade route or "powerhouse" in the region, Serbia could have been all that if it wanted, but so far Serbia has been only a nuisance and a pain in the neck for international community since WW1.”
Not so long ago having a Yugoslavian passport was as valuable as having a Japanese passport. And even toady, the trade via the Danube is worth a fortune, so I hardly think that you can dismiss it as a valuable trade route.
There are also countries clamouring to set up trade links with Serbia.
As for Serbia having been a ‘pain in the neck’ since WWI, many people from Allied nations remember the brave and tragic sacrifice of millions of Serbian lives in both world wars, and remain grateful and indebted for this.
A visit to the Serb museum in Corfu is a proof of the bravery and the contribution of the entire Serb nation to Europe.
If only any of the readers here would pay a visit to that Museum (or read some history for the matter), to see those "Save our Allies Serbs!" US posters from the time, and read the texts of the photographs...
This visit has been very important to me.
I wish some Americans would visit it and then look at Clinton/Bush in the eye....
Just yesterday, Isreal has refused to accept a deadline for a negotiated settlement between themselves and their Palestinian counterparts. After 3 Wars, countless engagements, suicide attacks, assassinations, and thousands of casualties that keeps rising, NO DEADLINES. Outside of the obvious that it's Isreal I'm making a comparison with, it certainly demonstrates clearly that the US has alternative motives and standards, pages of music from which the "rest of us" need to dance and sing to.
Without a negotiated settlement that both sides can accept, the region going to be doomed into a continues struggle...with no victories...only casualties.
it doesn't work for you but it sure works for us :)
lets not disband the world organization here just because kosovo can never be its member. we need a more realistic, sober approach to things.
The tangled web is in fact being weaved by the US and a "few" EU states who believe the Russians will just back off to help them out of their own self made trap/web of deceit.
Serbia is willing for the jaw-jaw to continue and has said it would not do anthing violent - please understand that an Illegal unilateral declaraion which is not immediatly nullified by the UN which is obligated by its resolution 1244. If the US and a "few" EU act against its UN resolution then it will not be Serbia that has acted in a violent manner and Serbia will opt diplomacy as a last resort before but this will not be the ultimate resort.
Name one thing in my comment that was rasistical. Half of my comment was censored and do not know why, really since there was nothing offending. If you name one word that portray rasizm in my comment I buy you a lunch first time you visit Serbia
Congratulations on easily the most logical and objective post I have read here on the Kosovo issue.
Also congratulations for being able to write coherent English, unlike most of the 'educated' political analysts that post on this forum.
"“I regret that the sides did not take advantage of the chance the Troika and the international community gave them to reach an agreement,” the EU representative to the Troika said, pointing out that a compromise would have been a much better solution for Belgrade and Priština than any other scenario. "
I agree with what he says, but now that it's obvious that an agreement cannot be reached, even officially speaking, it would be interesting to see how the UN chief decides to steer this matter. It is a lot of responsibility he bears and I hope he that he makes a sensible decision.
I think all this bickering about Kosovo's future status should come to an end. Albanian side puts forth arguments like these: http://www.newkosovareport.com/Arianit-Dobruna/Twelve-answers-to-arguments-against-independence.html
While the Serbs claim territorial integrity.
Why don't all people start compromising instead of wasting more time and making people suffer more.
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