Charges brought over 1991 Lovas war crimes

laki from nyc,

Did you know that croatia started the war?

Did you know that Serbs were the first ones to be killed in croatia by illegal croatian militias?

Serbia is crazy if they listen to those westerners no more serbs are going anywhere no one cares for the west

laki NYC the albanians and croatians did the same thing in WWII and in the recent wars. The Americans have done this also in Iraq.

"The first Minister of Interior Affairs in the HDZ Government, Martin Spegelj, was a senior general in the Yugoslav Armed Forces (JNA) at the time of the creation of the new Croatia. He said, on January 20, 1991, while the JNA was still officially the common army of Yugoslavia: "We are in the war with [ie: against] the Army (JNA). Should anything happen, kill them all in the streets, in their homes, through hand grenades, fire pistols in their bellies, women, children . . . We will deal with [the Croatian Serbian area of] Knin by butchering . . ."

The late 1991 battle for Vukovar was portrayed in the Western media as a battle between heroic Croatian defenders against overwhelming Yugoslav (ie: Serbian) modern military might. Significantly, as in World War II Germany when the concentration camp ovens kept burning as the Allied forces swept toward them, Croats in Vukovar from June 1 to November 23, 1991, were busy exterminating those Serb families who had not been able to flee. It was for this reason that the JNA — the Yugoslav Army — fought back into Vukovar.

At least 1,000 Serbs, mostly women, old people and children, were shot, knifed, axed or bludgeoned to death systematically, one-by-one, in two main centers; one the Borovo Footwear Factory, the other the Rowing Club of Vukovar. Many of the bodies were dumped into the Danube, left to float down to Belgrade. And in many instances, the Croats took pictures, or recorded the deaths. One visiting Croat female journalist, during the Vukovar fighting, unfamiliar with firearms, asked one of the young gunmen to cock a pistol for her so that she could feel what it was like to kill a Serb.

One Serb, Branko Stankovic, was captured after being wounded in the leg by Croat forces. He was taken to a hospital where he was forced to make a television broadcast for Croatian television, saying how well he and other prisoners were being treated. He was then taken out and killed. Photographs of his tortured, mutilated body were subsequently found. So, too, were a significant variety of specially made implements for torturing and killing.

The Croatian Ustaše regarded Vukovar as one of the most important targets in the (1941-45) Independent State of Croatia. In one drive alone, during World War II, the Ustaše killed some 10,000 Serbian residents of Vukovar and surrounding areas. The Ustaše again took control of Vukovar and neighboring borovo between June 1 and November 23, 1991. At the Borovo footware factory at the exit from Vukovar, the Croats established a new concentration camp, rounding up and interning local Serbian civilians. At this site the Croats interned some 5,000 Serbs, and there and at the Rowing Club of Vukovar, the almost ritualistic killing of Serbs began again. The basement of the Borovo-komerc concentration camp also housed the headquarters of Marko Filkovic, commanding officer of the ZNG, the official Croatian National Guard Corps. More than 1,000 Serbs died in these two facilities, and on the streets and in their homes, before the JNA fought its way into Vukovar on November 23, 1991.

It was during the Vukovar conflict that the Croatian authorities began successfully experimenting with image-manipulating propaganda, forcing captured and inured Serbs to state in the Vukovar hospital, in front of video cameras, that they were being well-treated. Videotape was released to the international media and broadcast extensively worldwide. The statement did not save the prisoners, who were subsequently killed."

(above excerpts from the prestigious Washington-based International Strategic Studies Association's[ISSA] Balkan Strategic Studies Special Reports)

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Genocide.htm

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Dec3192-2.htm

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Jan3193.htm

IF true then those guilty should be punished. However, I don't see any names or details published confirming this.

If the names are all military-aged men, then I'm not going to believe these were civilians and killed in the way they described.

They say many were mine-accident victims. Even if they can prove that they still would have to prove how exactly they were killed. The claims are that people were forced to walk in mine fields, yet it could also be a case where and army or paramilitary unit got caught in a mine field.

I just like to be sure that the claims hold up to proof. Because to read only the headlines you'd believe that no Croats or Muslims died in battles at all, that there were no accidents or collateral damage. Yet somehow the Serbs who couldn't kill a one of them in actual fighting and battles somehow captured large groups and only killed them execution style.

Without the names, autopsy reports and other proof you can't automatically believe the claims.

To posters #6,7,8,9, you are all missing the point here. I doubt that anybody is seriously suggesting that an initial heinous crime committed by Tudjman's forces against the Serbs in Krajina is justification for a subsequent retaliatory heinous crime against Croatians or vice-versa. But refusing to discuss or acknowledge the voluminous evidence of previous crimes perpetrated by Tudjman's regime from 1990 onwards against the Krajina Serbs is simply dishonest, unethical and biased.

Tudjman was clearly, based on his own public writings in the late 1980's and comments to the Croatian media from May 1990 onwards, an apologist for Hitler, Pavelic, the World War 2 Ustashi fascists, a denier of the Holocaust against Jews and Serbs, and a defender of genocide. As was (and still is) Stipe Mesic, who made a speech in early 1992 saying that the Croats have nothing to apologise for what the fascist Ustashi did in the Jasenovac death camp and that the Croats "had won twice" in 1941 (when Hitler established the Ustashi Independent State of Croatia) and again in 1945 when "we sat at the winners table" (meaning when the Ustashi switched sides in 1944 to Tito's communist partisans thus emerging victorious for the second time).

When Tudjman came to power in May, 1990, he made it very clear that Serbs were no longer welcome in Croatia. He invited hundreds of World War 2 fascist Ustashi war criminals along with their entire families back to Croatia declaring them "heroes" and even gave these old mass murderers official government posts in his new regime! Streets in Zagreb were re-named after World War 2 Ustashi murderers,Ustashi T-shirts,flags,maps,photos,uniforms,badges,medals and other memorabilia were being openly sold in Croatian stores.

When Tudjman began his ethnic cleansing campaign starting in the latter half of 1990, Serbs in Croatia were systematically harassed, they lost their jobs in private firms, in the police and security organs, as well as in Croatian Government posts, the Serbian Cyrillic script was banned, Serbs were shot, beaten or stabbed to death, their houses robbed and set on fire by black shirted neo-Ustashi thugs, Serbs were forced to swear oaths of loyalty to Tudjman's regime, forced to carry ID cards which clearly indentified them as Serbs (reminiscent of Nazi Germany's racial laws against the Jews),Croatian became the only "official" language, Serbian associations were abolished, all literature was cleansed of Serbian authors and Serbs were not permitted to operate their own TV and radio programmes. On December 22, 1990, the Croatian parliament proclaimed the independence of Croatia and summarily adopted a new constitution under which Serbs lost their constituent nation status, being relegated to a national minority. All of this is documented and proven by international observers in the US, Great Britain and the European Union.

The above racist, fascist policies of Tudjman's regime resulted in 50 thousand Serbs being forced to leave their homes in Croatia and Krajina by January 1991, which is well over 6 months before war officialy broke out in the former Yugoslavian federation. In 1993, in a report by the then Secretary General of the UN, Boutros-Boutros Ghali, it was reported that by this time well over 250 thousand Serbs were expelled from Croatia. By September 1995, after a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign reminiscent of the 1940's genocidal Ustashi pogroms against Serbs and Jews, the population of Serbs in Croatia and Krajina was further reduced by well over 300 thousand, and tens of thousands were killed over the previous five years. The Serbian population in Croatia and Krajina was simply obliterated.

Please consult the considerable documentation at Emperor's Clothes and Historical & Investigative Research

http://www.tenc.net
http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/guide-yugo.htm

"The suspects are accused of lining the civilians up to form a human wall, and forcing them to walk across a mine field, leading to the deaths of 22 of them,"- What kind of human being would make civilians do such a thing?
Serbian version of the story : They were sleepwalking ,..

Again, I notice that my post is not published! I really wonder if it's of any use to belong to a forum where only pro-Serb opinions are accepted?

When I write that Zvornik is the municipality where a majority of crimes have been committed against civilians, as early as 1991, and during the summer of 1992.

There is evidence from Serbia that members of the Tigers paramilitary formation under the command of the late Željko Ražnatović, aka Arkan, were involved. Branko Grujić, Branko Popović and several other direct participants are currently on trial at Belgrade County Court for Zvornik.

The Tuzla prosecution received part of the documentation and evidence on the crimes in Zvornik from the Hague Tribunal, and another part from the district court and War Crimes Prosecution in Belgrade.

I understand that it is not 'politically correct' to make such assertions, but when it is the complete truth, what can I do.

No Ratko, Croatian police officers were the first victims in the war in Croatia. The incidents in Plitvice and also in Borovo Naselje saw many Croatian police officers killed by Serbian extremists. This was followed by other incidents created by Serb rebels that saw the JNA intervene on the side of Serbs each and every time.

By the time the war in Croatia settled down, 1/3 of Croatia was ocupied and destroyed. More than 500,000 Croats were kicked out of the so-called "Krajina" and also along the front lines.

Please stop promoting lies about the war in Croatia since you have little better to do.

Unfortunately its the attitude of you, Ida, Kate and other extremists that makes the loss of Kosovo for Serbia highly justified.

Sadly this incident in Lovas, Skabrinje, Vukovar and a multitude of other places reveals the level of brutality against the Croatian people in their own country.

victor -- i hope that you and others critical of the ultra-nationalism continue your postings -- OUR voices are valid and need to be heard, and have at least as much authenticity and truth-telling as that of any others...

"Did you know that croatia started the war?

Did you know that Serbs were the first ones to be killed in croatia by illegal croatian militias?"

Regardless of whether any of this is true or not, it doesn't begin to justify such a heinous crime Ratko.

When are you people going to stop the endless excuses?

And what if there is no complex, devious international conspiracy against the Serbs?

"The suspects are accused of lining the civilians up to form a human wall, and forcing them to walk across a mine field, leading to the deaths of 22 of them,"- What kind of human being would make civilians do such a thing?
Serbian version of the story : They were sleepwalking ,..

Again, I notice that my post is not published! I really wonder if it's of any use to belong to a forum where only pro-Serb opinions are accepted?

Serbia is crazy if they listen to those westerners no more serbs are going anywhere no one cares for the west

laki from nyc,

Did you know that croatia started the war?

Did you know that Serbs were the first ones to be killed in croatia by illegal croatian militias?

When I write that Zvornik is the municipality where a majority of crimes have been committed against civilians, as early as 1991, and during the summer of 1992.

There is evidence from Serbia that members of the Tigers paramilitary formation under the command of the late Željko Ražnatović, aka Arkan, were involved. Branko Grujić, Branko Popović and several other direct participants are currently on trial at Belgrade County Court for Zvornik.

The Tuzla prosecution received part of the documentation and evidence on the crimes in Zvornik from the Hague Tribunal, and another part from the district court and War Crimes Prosecution in Belgrade.

I understand that it is not 'politically correct' to make such assertions, but when it is the complete truth, what can I do.

No Ratko, Croatian police officers were the first victims in the war in Croatia. The incidents in Plitvice and also in Borovo Naselje saw many Croatian police officers killed by Serbian extremists. This was followed by other incidents created by Serb rebels that saw the JNA intervene on the side of Serbs each and every time.

By the time the war in Croatia settled down, 1/3 of Croatia was ocupied and destroyed. More than 500,000 Croats were kicked out of the so-called "Krajina" and also along the front lines.

Please stop promoting lies about the war in Croatia since you have little better to do.

Unfortunately its the attitude of you, Ida, Kate and other extremists that makes the loss of Kosovo for Serbia highly justified.

Sadly this incident in Lovas, Skabrinje, Vukovar and a multitude of other places reveals the level of brutality against the Croatian people in their own country.

laki NYC the albanians and croatians did the same thing in WWII and in the recent wars. The Americans have done this also in Iraq.

victor -- i hope that you and others critical of the ultra-nationalism continue your postings -- OUR voices are valid and need to be heard, and have at least as much authenticity and truth-telling as that of any others...

"Did you know that croatia started the war?

Did you know that Serbs were the first ones to be killed in croatia by illegal croatian militias?"

Regardless of whether any of this is true or not, it doesn't begin to justify such a heinous crime Ratko.

When are you people going to stop the endless excuses?

And what if there is no complex, devious international conspiracy against the Serbs?

IF true then those guilty should be punished. However, I don't see any names or details published confirming this.

If the names are all military-aged men, then I'm not going to believe these were civilians and killed in the way they described.

They say many were mine-accident victims. Even if they can prove that they still would have to prove how exactly they were killed. The claims are that people were forced to walk in mine fields, yet it could also be a case where and army or paramilitary unit got caught in a mine field.

I just like to be sure that the claims hold up to proof. Because to read only the headlines you'd believe that no Croats or Muslims died in battles at all, that there were no accidents or collateral damage. Yet somehow the Serbs who couldn't kill a one of them in actual fighting and battles somehow captured large groups and only killed them execution style.

Without the names, autopsy reports and other proof you can't automatically believe the claims.

"The first Minister of Interior Affairs in the HDZ Government, Martin Spegelj, was a senior general in the Yugoslav Armed Forces (JNA) at the time of the creation of the new Croatia. He said, on January 20, 1991, while the JNA was still officially the common army of Yugoslavia: "We are in the war with [ie: against] the Army (JNA). Should anything happen, kill them all in the streets, in their homes, through hand grenades, fire pistols in their bellies, women, children . . . We will deal with [the Croatian Serbian area of] Knin by butchering . . ."

The late 1991 battle for Vukovar was portrayed in the Western media as a battle between heroic Croatian defenders against overwhelming Yugoslav (ie: Serbian) modern military might. Significantly, as in World War II Germany when the concentration camp ovens kept burning as the Allied forces swept toward them, Croats in Vukovar from June 1 to November 23, 1991, were busy exterminating those Serb families who had not been able to flee. It was for this reason that the JNA — the Yugoslav Army — fought back into Vukovar.

At least 1,000 Serbs, mostly women, old people and children, were shot, knifed, axed or bludgeoned to death systematically, one-by-one, in two main centers; one the Borovo Footwear Factory, the other the Rowing Club of Vukovar. Many of the bodies were dumped into the Danube, left to float down to Belgrade. And in many instances, the Croats took pictures, or recorded the deaths. One visiting Croat female journalist, during the Vukovar fighting, unfamiliar with firearms, asked one of the young gunmen to cock a pistol for her so that she could feel what it was like to kill a Serb.

One Serb, Branko Stankovic, was captured after being wounded in the leg by Croat forces. He was taken to a hospital where he was forced to make a television broadcast for Croatian television, saying how well he and other prisoners were being treated. He was then taken out and killed. Photographs of his tortured, mutilated body were subsequently found. So, too, were a significant variety of specially made implements for torturing and killing.

The Croatian Ustaše regarded Vukovar as one of the most important targets in the (1941-45) Independent State of Croatia. In one drive alone, during World War II, the Ustaše killed some 10,000 Serbian residents of Vukovar and surrounding areas. The Ustaše again took control of Vukovar and neighboring borovo between June 1 and November 23, 1991. At the Borovo footware factory at the exit from Vukovar, the Croats established a new concentration camp, rounding up and interning local Serbian civilians. At this site the Croats interned some 5,000 Serbs, and there and at the Rowing Club of Vukovar, the almost ritualistic killing of Serbs began again. The basement of the Borovo-komerc concentration camp also housed the headquarters of Marko Filkovic, commanding officer of the ZNG, the official Croatian National Guard Corps. More than 1,000 Serbs died in these two facilities, and on the streets and in their homes, before the JNA fought its way into Vukovar on November 23, 1991.

It was during the Vukovar conflict that the Croatian authorities began successfully experimenting with image-manipulating propaganda, forcing captured and inured Serbs to state in the Vukovar hospital, in front of video cameras, that they were being well-treated. Videotape was released to the international media and broadcast extensively worldwide. The statement did not save the prisoners, who were subsequently killed."

(above excerpts from the prestigious Washington-based International Strategic Studies Association's[ISSA] Balkan Strategic Studies Special Reports)

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Genocide.htm

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Dec3192-2.htm

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Jan3193.htm

To posters #6,7,8,9, you are all missing the point here. I doubt that anybody is seriously suggesting that an initial heinous crime committed by Tudjman's forces against the Serbs in Krajina is justification for a subsequent retaliatory heinous crime against Croatians or vice-versa. But refusing to discuss or acknowledge the voluminous evidence of previous crimes perpetrated by Tudjman's regime from 1990 onwards against the Krajina Serbs is simply dishonest, unethical and biased.

Tudjman was clearly, based on his own public writings in the late 1980's and comments to the Croatian media from May 1990 onwards, an apologist for Hitler, Pavelic, the World War 2 Ustashi fascists, a denier of the Holocaust against Jews and Serbs, and a defender of genocide. As was (and still is) Stipe Mesic, who made a speech in early 1992 saying that the Croats have nothing to apologise for what the fascist Ustashi did in the Jasenovac death camp and that the Croats "had won twice" in 1941 (when Hitler established the Ustashi Independent State of Croatia) and again in 1945 when "we sat at the winners table" (meaning when the Ustashi switched sides in 1944 to Tito's communist partisans thus emerging victorious for the second time).

When Tudjman came to power in May, 1990, he made it very clear that Serbs were no longer welcome in Croatia. He invited hundreds of World War 2 fascist Ustashi war criminals along with their entire families back to Croatia declaring them "heroes" and even gave these old mass murderers official government posts in his new regime! Streets in Zagreb were re-named after World War 2 Ustashi murderers,Ustashi T-shirts,flags,maps,photos,uniforms,badges,medals and other memorabilia were being openly sold in Croatian stores.

When Tudjman began his ethnic cleansing campaign starting in the latter half of 1990, Serbs in Croatia were systematically harassed, they lost their jobs in private firms, in the police and security organs, as well as in Croatian Government posts, the Serbian Cyrillic script was banned, Serbs were shot, beaten or stabbed to death, their houses robbed and set on fire by black shirted neo-Ustashi thugs, Serbs were forced to swear oaths of loyalty to Tudjman's regime, forced to carry ID cards which clearly indentified them as Serbs (reminiscent of Nazi Germany's racial laws against the Jews),Croatian became the only "official" language, Serbian associations were abolished, all literature was cleansed of Serbian authors and Serbs were not permitted to operate their own TV and radio programmes. On December 22, 1990, the Croatian parliament proclaimed the independence of Croatia and summarily adopted a new constitution under which Serbs lost their constituent nation status, being relegated to a national minority. All of this is documented and proven by international observers in the US, Great Britain and the European Union.

The above racist, fascist policies of Tudjman's regime resulted in 50 thousand Serbs being forced to leave their homes in Croatia and Krajina by January 1991, which is well over 6 months before war officialy broke out in the former Yugoslavian federation. In 1993, in a report by the then Secretary General of the UN, Boutros-Boutros Ghali, it was reported that by this time well over 250 thousand Serbs were expelled from Croatia. By September 1995, after a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign reminiscent of the 1940's genocidal Ustashi pogroms against Serbs and Jews, the population of Serbs in Croatia and Krajina was further reduced by well over 300 thousand, and tens of thousands were killed over the previous five years. The Serbian population in Croatia and Krajina was simply obliterated.

Please consult the considerable documentation at Emperor's Clothes and Historical & Investigative Research

http://www.tenc.net
http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/guide-yugo.htm