Troika-mediated Kosovo talks fall through

What a nice proposal from Tadic...

As if 1999 never happened.

And he expects that to fly anywhere?

Well, he can fly back to Belgrade with his plans and get ready for the isolation that his fellow nationalist politicians will impose on Serbia, by distancing it from the West and bringing it right into Czar Putin's lap.

I guess a Belarus future must be what the Serb people consider awesome for their country.

The Kosovo albanians just turned down the most generous offers that any other minority in the world would only dream of. Thank you for showing the world that coexistence and tolerance was never your goal, but that your goal is to cleanse Kosovo of all Serbs and ultimately form a 'greater albania'. Thanks to your lobby groups buying certain American politicians, you almost achieved your goals. ALMOST being the key word.
Tadic and Kostunica have handled themselves masterfully. They have done everything in their power to avert a crisis, and have got nothing for it because of American obstructionism.
Now it is time to stand firm and act like any other country would act if there is an attempt to steal 15% of its territory.
Full economic blockade, cutting of power supplies, and a referendum in Republika Srpska. This is just for starters.

Finally this means we will declare Indepenence after dec 10th. U.S. troops boosted in the northern part sends to Serbia a very clear message, don't make it wors since the US forces wont hesitate to defend the free democratic soon-to-become state of Kosova.

I am sending a great support to our team! Belgrade done everything in its power and the proposals were more then generous. The proposals were made so that solution can be found and goals achieved in civilized manner respecting the international law.

Pristina once again expressed high level of ignorance which is expected since ex soldiers cannot or do not know how to negotiate. Lack of political skills and knowledge in Kosovo's high political representatives is just a disaster for Kosovo and Metohija's future.

"We will see soon, our goal is to have Kosovo independence, based on the plan of Martti Ahtisaari in cooperation with the international community by the end of this year,” Ceku"

- yes sure just the same as last year when he said Indepedence will happen in 2006! Cane Ceku provide a date for the new UN resolution to replace 1244? He had the same US assurance last year - a false promise that is not theirs to give and will never be delivered! In anycase Ceku has zero credibility and in many ways he is just stirring things and making life more difficult for Thaci who is just as aware of the false promise.

Pejon, please say hi to the US troops. By the way, when are you going to have your own troops to fight for your cause?

Nick said >> "2. We are used to electricity cuts, so we dont need your electricity either. We'll just buy generators"
(Nick KS, 28 November 2007 14:59)

Nick, where will you get the money to fill those generators with petro? They do not work on air, you know? Do you even releazie that 40% of all your imports to Kosovo come from Serbia and that anotother 30% of all your foreign imports depend on coming through Serbia? Guess you think that is irrelevant. You will see how much a kilogram of this and a kilogram of that will cost when these essential life sustaining supplies must come into Kosovo via the none Serbia route, furthermore, you will not be able to use Serbian air space, air travel to Kosovo is going to be cost prohibitive to most people. The Albanians survive on a 30 Euros a month provided to them by the charitable EU, how long do you think that this charity will last and how far will that 30 Euros go after economic embargos from Serbia take place? As for the North of Kosovo have no elusions it will separate and join Serbia and NATO will do nothing more than watch! I will be sure to tell you “I told you so” when this happens. Nick, you will forever be looked upon as an illegal rouge country without a UN seat, World Bank membership or even a spot with world sports organizations. Your Kosovo passport will be useless in most countries since most of them including America will never issue visas to Kosovo passport holders, forget ever joining the EU and for that matter NATO because joining NATO would only confirm what Belgrade has been saying for months, Kosovo is a NATO state! I ask you, what have got to be so smug about, what have you achieved for your children, but you probably don’t have children and hence why you are so narrow minded in what you think the future holds for you which is bleak at best.

"Full economic blockade, cutting off power supplies, and a referendum in Republika Srpska. This is just for starters."

I agree Dragan. If they do not do it, then that will empower the Albanians.

Endri,

Please, less chest thumping. You guys already have power outages. I can't even imagine what will happen when The Serbs cut the power for good. You Albanians are so unrealistic. Welcome to golbal politics.

To the Albanians:
Peggy has mentioned the "sarcasm" in some of your posts. The word I would use is "sneering". It is the attitude of the cowardly schoolyard bully when his big brother is standing at his shoulder. But such attitudes only last till the day reality has to be faced. For your own sakes I hope you are ready for it.
To the Serbs:
Keep cool and lay off with the silly threats. International law is on your side. Serbia is a great country (I have visited many times) and will become greater in the future. In the meantime, maintain the dignity of your position. There is a lot of water to flow under the bridge yet.

Just a reminder to everyone – Kosova is de-facto independent now. These talks were not about getting Belgrade's permission about Kosova's independence. The sole purpose was to try to convince Prishtina to re-acquaint itself with the new post Milosevic “democratic” Serb government and consider some kind of re-integration.

During these talks, Prishtina realized that the arrogance, the language used by the Serb delegation and the pseudo-offers made were very reminiscent (if not more aggressive then that) of Milosevic years. The offers Belgrade came up with contained even less than what Kosova had from 1974 to 1989. Remember, according to the 1974 constitution, Kosova was a veto power holding member of the Yugoslav Federation.

Serbia did not offer “equal partnership” of any kind. They didn’t even consider the Prishtina team an equal negotiating partner. They just wanted to have a tight grip of the borders and foreign affairs. In other words, they wanted to be the “rulers”.

Had Serbia first apologized for the crimes in Kosova, considered the Prishtina delegation equal partners (not look down at them, threaten and insult them), things may have taken a different direction.

The Prishtina team realized again (they already did once before during the Ahtisaari mediated meetings) that the talks will not bring a thing.

On a related note, I would like to thank Russia on helping EU reach a unified stand on the Kosova issue.

Dragan,

Newsflash for you:

1. Economic blocade will hurt you more than us, we dont export anything to Serbia and we import a very large ammount of goods. Goods which by the way, we can also buy in Macedonia, Montenegro or Albania.

2. We are used to electricity cuts, so we dont need your electricity either. We'll just buy generators

European John
(john andersson,


Serbian people are very capable of running their lives and thier own country but there is much interference from outside and therefore looks like we are incapable of it. But I have surprise for you-Serbia wont join EU ever since Serbia is anti-EU and anti- NATO, so nothing to be unhappy for. Perhaps you could send some letter of notice to your government to ignore Srbia in all possible ways. This is enough good reason to never hear about Serbia any longer and you wont feel sick to the bone. Furthermore, I am sure Serbia would benefit if your country (whichever it is)cease to interfere in Serbia's internal and external issues.

Funcakes, you are so full of sarcasm. Can we hear something intelligent from you or do we have to put up with never ending sarcasm?

If the Albanian team is even remotely close to the way you think god help Europe.

The talks ended without any resolution. Did anyone really expect anything different?

Tomorrow is another day and sooner or later this mess will be resolved. It just not might go the way you think. You might wish that you negotiated when you had the opportunity.

Funkakes!

"What a nice proposal from Tadic...

As if 1999 never happened."

Often we hear this comment by Albanians. Since 1999 happened, only solution is independance.
What about time before 1999?
When Milosevic ofered autonomy talks to Rugova? He refused to talk about anything except independance.
In 1991 there was a referendum on independance in Kosovo.
Why was independance the only solution then, when 1999 did not happen?
Dardan wrote
"During these talks, Prishtina realized that the arrogance, the language used by the Serb delegation and the pseudo-offers made were very reminiscent (if not more aggressive then that) of Milosevic years. The offers Belgrade came up with contained even less than what Kosova had from 1974 to 1989. Remember, according to the 1974 constitution, Kosova was a veto power holding member of the Yugoslav Federation."
So, you admit that Kosovo had a great autonomy.
Why then, rioting and ethnic violance starting in 1980?

Funkakes and others. Come on people, be more realistic.
You don't want independance because of what happened in 1999, but the other way around.
Many things happened, including 1999, because you want independance.
Don't mix your causes and consequences.

By reading the comments of many in the Serb camp here one can easily gather what their true attitude vis-a-vis the Albanians is. If they consent to doing what Serbia wants or accepting their "compromises" they are good and decent and smart. If the Valley Albanians kiss Serbia's feet for the right to fly their flag, then they are good; otherwise they should shut up because democratic, tolerant saintly Serbia will not allow any such thing. So if we do not share the same opinion as the Serbs about what is best for US, we are just a bunch of former soldiers, ignorant, extremists, criminals and well you name it apparently we got it. Reading all these makes me realize that the best thing that has ever happened to Kosova was Milosevic, the KLA and NATO intervention. It was worth all the suffering and loss to be rid of Serb rule. Thanks to that we now have de facto independence which will soon become de jure too for the US and most of the EU and Russia can get stuffed for all we care. It will mark the end of our participation in a state where many people seem to suffer from a very acute and extreme superiority complex. Because how can one explain comments of the sort bmrusila made about K-Albanian negotiating skills otherwise? Not only do we have international opinion on our side, but twice we got the better of the Serb team in direct negotiations. Once in Rambouille where the brilliant skills of the Milosevic team and the "ignorance" of the K-Albanians led to Serbia being bombed and now again in the talks that have taken Serbia nowhere, but east of the EU and NATO. If these are the results where you base your claim of being superior to us as negotiators well I am truly thankful for the lack of skill of the Albanian team.

I remeber Çeku saying that Kosova will have its independence on 28 november,well,he wasn't that wrong,negociations ended exactly on 28/11!
By the way,"happy independece day" to all albanians!
from today we will have one more reason to calebrate this anniversary!

I really hope that Serbia enforces some kind of economic blockade on Kosovo.
This is the only way some albanains will stop buying goods from Serbia, and instead start buying local products, and products from Macedonia and Albania, thus increasing economic ties with our good neighbours, and leading to their eceonomic development as well. This would be a great way to improve our economic ties with Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro.

It will also stop all the illegal stuff that comes in from Serbia.

I really hope that Serbia does this.

Yes, in the beginning this will cause difficulties and price increases, but soon the situation will stabilies once new trading routes are established. And I'm sure as hell it won't be worse than in the 90s, and we survived then.

I hope Koshtunica continues doing what he does best: pushing Kosovo towards not only legal indepenence from Serbia, but also economic independence from Serbia.

Please, please block the borders - and lead us to closer ties with Albania and Macedonia!

Peggy,

You sould be the last one to critisize anybody for sarcasm and arrogance. It was just 2-3 days ago when you repeated your usual arrogant statement " all the Albanians of Kosovo should go to Albania". As a non-Albanian I was thinking again that hearing such "constructive" comments no wonder that the K-Albanians want to be de jure independent ASAP. Peggy keep up the "good work". Repeat your statement on a daily basis.

Who is telling this guy that Kosovo is de-facto independent? Someone in UNMIK? The White House? WHO? Name your source! Family does not count. Ah, forget it. It takes more than a source. lol.

Tom O'Donoghue
I see that you have been to Serbia and love it so I guess that has clouded your views a bit. After all one can hardly get an objective view of Albanians in Serbia. So I do not see the point of trying to change your mind on the subject of Serb - K-Albanian relations but I am just gonna point out one of the mistakes in your posting: Serbia is not gonna get greater. It will very shortly get 15% smaller.

To the albanian camp -

By all your posts, invasions & desecrations as well as antagonistic comments, it's plain to see who's in the wrong. How is ANYONE going to work together with the few examples of the vigilantes in KosovO & their continuous posts of "bloody Serbs, etc"?

KosovO is Serbian & will remain Serbian! If you want to stay, you need to play by the rules - no more anarchy!! You want anarchy, go elsewhere as we don't need your hot air, criminal activities & desecration.

Thank you!!

Signed - the Serb Camp!

Well - after the massive ethnic cleansing of 1999 - the only thing left to the Serbian government is to impose a blockade.

Though not at all a fan of Bush, I cant help but use his words: BRING IT ON!!

For one thing, trade routes do NOT originate from Serbia, thus what is shut in one way - will inevitably lead to the opening of new routes. It's pure economic logic.

Kosovo's demand for goods will NOT subside, and thus given that demand - new supply routes will be established - and it aint important at all whether this new trade routes establishment takes a few months or even a year. Kosovo Albanians have fought for the independence of their country and are willing and capable of withstanding any pressure or economic blockade.

The only thing this blockade will lead to - as someone on the thread already pointed out - is that it will economically detach Kosovo from Serbia to a significant degree.

Make no mistake about it: we will adapt to the pressure. By imposing a blockade you would have used your LAST piece of blackmail - and it will fail spectacularly. It's shooting yourself on the foot - as you will deprive your own businessmen of a significant export market - while given Kosovo's trade structure, the importers will find new ways of getting the same thing. There's absolutely zero reason to believe that a switch to other trade routes will be permanently more costly. The initial reflection in price hikes due to supply shortages will only induce a rapid re-orientation towards suppliers willing to do business with us. And - human nature shows - as long as you have the greenback - any supplier will deal with you.

At the end of it all - no economic blocade will deter the legitimate aspirations of two million people to seek their own legal roof, having experienced only a few years ago an unseen state-sponsored murderous campaign.

Remember, no matter what short-term measures are cooked by your own government - which by the way is only trying to act for purposes of domestic consumption, as in it wants to be seen by the Serbian public as doing 'something about it' - the effects of such actions will no doubt be absorbed by the Kosovars, who will not only establish new economic links and channels, but their political independence will have been strengthened and legitimized by the actions of a country that lost a war in 1999 and still can't come to terms with it.

Mr. Independence - I see you soon!

@Dragan: "Now it is time to stand firm and act like any other country would act if there is an attempt to steal 15% of its territory.
Full economic blockade, cutting of power supplies,..."

Dragan, what you write is the only thing left, that you can be "proud" of. However the next generation of serbs will look back and will be ashamed for these actions. Your politicians are the losers who lost Kosova with their grotesque attitude. Your army didn't kill us all, and for sure your cutting of power supply and your blockade will not. Just remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

To all Serbs:
I don't wan to burst your bubble but face the facts. Dardania doesn't belong to you, but to the rightful owners the Albanians. You are new comers to the Balkans and you occupied Dardania for 200 years. We have always been there. If somebody wants to claim that land, then the first should be the Romans that stayed there 9 centuries and second should be the Turks that stayed there 5 centuries. You are the last ones that should claim the Dardania’s land.
You didn’t loose Dardania in 1999 or in 2007, because you never owned that land. If there is a God than I prey to him to forgive you for all the atrocities you have committed through the centuries.
Long live the people of Dardania

it´s intersting though...someone doubted the Albanians here to be over 30.. so far, I doubt they left the teenie-age at all.

they just don´t get it, as it seems.
from now on, everything will be in the responsibility of the socalled k-albanian "hero´s" since they were the ones, who were not flexible, who were ignorant towards every compromise. Serbia has done all it could time and again. so, in the meantime everybody knows that it is the Albanians who were die-hard reactionary.
and that is good, but..good for Serbia.
UNSC 1244 is still in effect, if something happens, Serbia has all the right to take care of it´s borders and citizens.
nobody will have the right to raise the voice...
but I don´t think Albanians will be that stupid. they know very well what they would experience. and furthermore, they have been told to be careful...and EVEN if they "declared" anything... what should that mean at all...?

all in all, there are some boys quite terribly misapprehending the situation!

To European John Anderson:
Unfortunately since B92 will edit my comment I cannot properly tell you what I think of your comment.
But I do believe you when you say that you hope to never see any of us in Europe. ;)

"It will also stop all the illegal stuff that comes in from Serbia."

Now you made me laugh! An ecomomic blockade in the Balkans? That would never work! Don`t forget , we are all born smugglers! :)

How can Kosovo be independent when it is actually a province of Serbia?

I suppose that they can pretend, to be independent. They might find others to pretend along with them for a while. Until they all get bored.

Then one day..... when all the bored people have gone away .... they'll wake ...... and it will still be in Serbia!!!!

Until Serbia says it is not Serbia, it is Serbia ..... and the future goes on for a very long time ..... so dream on .......

However, this is not to be pro-Serb or anti-Albanian.

Envisage the two parties negotiating and agreeing to the point where they can walk - hand-in-hand - together into Europe.

That too may be a dream but at least it is a sensible target.

To: Nikshala
"This would be a great way to improve our economic ties with Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro."

Well - what a great group of countries to do business with....Albania.......that has not a lot.....Macedonia.....that has not a lot........and Montenegro....that has ties with Serbia.....does Albania have any friends.....

Will the KiM ever become independent? No...Americans don't even believe Bush....but for some reason Albanians do....

Peter;

Thank you for wishing us a happy Nov 28, Albanian independence day, this should be done by all the rest of serb posters here. Hey and why not from B92?
Peace and prosperity for all.

Mr John Anderson?
Hasn't your mama taught you never to use this kind of language against anyone? What jungle are you coming from?

To Mr Andersson who possibly comes from Sweden. You disgust me and all peace-loving Europeans.

Congratulations to both Serbia and Kosovo.

Kosovo must become independence now.

There is a really nice article about this issue. I am sorry is not recent... belongs to 20 years later. But nevertheless is a good reflection and in the same time a nice journalistic piece.
http://www.tol.cz/look/TOL/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=4&NrIssue=245&NrSection=2&NrArticle=19180

To Ptoleme.
I'm not trying to justify anything at all. Not in the way everyone rushed to justify what happened after 1999 as a "revenge attacks".
I'm just pointing out that "we cannot accept anyting short of independance because of what happened in 1999" is hypocracy. You couldn't accept anything short of independance before. So, give us all a break with that song.

So ved, are you, in your conspiracy-seeking mind, trying to find a justification for the killing of 12000 people and the displacement of 800,000 more?

Joe, Show me the article where I said that all K-Albanians should go back to Albania.

My response to Funcakes was that he only has sarcasm and will wish one day that the Albanians had negotiated. When you stop putting words in my mouth we can talk.

Nothing to worry about. Kosova is de facto independent since 8 years and has been functioning as a separate state from Serbia since early 90-s. It will be recognized de jure in a few weeks and all this "drama" will end peacefully for the good of all the people in Balkans. Not too long from now, when Kosova and Serbia enter EU, the borders will not exist and it will be like nothing ever happened. Our kids will laugh at our mistakes, paranoia, and stupidity of our days. Until then, we should all resist any calls or provocations for violence from any side. Better days are comming...

To gjipeja
Nice try...it will never happen though and why ?
Since all submitting their comments on this web-side can hardly be over 30 right ? Thus given hate by birth and milk.
As an outside observer, European by heart, I am sick and tired of the bickering and finger pointing from both sides even though my sickness is mostly extended to the albanians, Europe's holy cows, a people with only rights and no responsibilities whatsoever in their own minds. Convientely hiding their heads in the ground, pretending they are all victims of serbian submission when the plain truth is, you are even worse which the situation in Kosovo today speaks loud and clear about. To even imagine you having any future in Europe is like believing Jesus actually walked on water, how will you turn the water into wine ? How will you be able to take a place in Europe when you lack the most basic competence needed, spelled COMPROMISE ? What will you do when a decision in Brussels goes against you ? Burn down a mosque ( since all the churches have been demolished already ) ?EU understands this and this is what this "Kosovo thing " ,to paraphrase the US presidential who uttered it, Bill Clinton, is all about; to isolate you from the rest of the civilized world, arm the borders ( NATO ) and let you guys play republic until hell freezes over.
But also to the serbian side, forever victims of outside forces, totally innocent as well as totaly incompetent to rule their own lives, not to mention their own state.
You make me sick to the bone. I hope never to see you in the EU.
Best regards
European John

i am so very pleased with the outcome of these "troika" sponsored talks, which in any case was 110% predictable. this last stretch of talks was quite unnatural (after all of the other failed talks), and was simply forced by trickery fr moscow/belgrade and the general cowardice and fears of the eu. but all of that is now history. congratulations to a newly independent kosovo/a, and all of its citizens. ignore all of the nasty threats -- as best you can -- and concentrate on a better future. the free and civilized world is with you.

Thank you for wishing us a happy Nov 28, Albanian independence day, this should be done by all the rest of serb posters here. Hey and why not from B92?
Peace and prosperity for all.
(Albion New York, 28 November 2007 23:19)

Enough already..respect the fact that Kosovo is Serbian. Lets get a couple things straight..Kosovo never had "republic" status like Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Macedonia, Montenegro, and Srbija...therefore, Kosovo cannot seek independence. The province is a territory of Srbija, deal with it. Your nation is SERBIA!! And to the albanians in Presevo, they are getting away with way too much. No other country in the world would allow what happend today, its a shame!!CCCC

Interestingly enough the Bulgarian government has started initiatives and has plans already sketched to do business with Kosovo. I have even read many articles from Bulgarian media that they sort of hope Serbia tries some sort of blockade on Kosovo. Eu would actually prefer that Kosovo is supplied more by an EU member than from Serbia. Thus my confusion with some serbians that actually promote some sort of blockade. You yourself say that you export to Kosovo thus you gain more by this, but you want to stop this and worsen your Economy? I guess your enemployment percentage is zero. Bulgaria in the meantime by doing this will also sell more in Albania, and prosper even more.

Go figure.

gjipeja,

I raise a toast to that view of the future - hope to see you all at the Balkan winter olympics in 2034!!

gjipeja, thanks so much for the beautiful article. How much would a bit of vision from all sides have helped this process along.

28/11 marks the beginning of new era:
1. Serbia behind doors accepted Kosova as independent state by refering that "Serbia will not defend Kosova by war" Different from statement 10 years ago.
2. Serbia accepts devorce from Kosova by mentioning "Serbia never will recognise Kosova as a state" To prove this point thats what happend between Croatia and Serbia.
3. February 2008, will be the last mile stone reached by Kosova to its independence ofcourse with the help of US, EU & Rest of the world.

Canadian

You obviously do not have a through knowledge of Kosovo and its day to day conditions - Kosovo has not been using Serbia's airspace for the last 8 and a half years!

Most flights go through Albania and some through Montenegro to get to Kosovo.

So good luck trying to block our airspace! :)

This blockade, is going to be a prime example of 'shooting yourself in the foot'. It will make Kosovo independent of Serbia in everyway possible.

and unluckily for Serbia, Kosovo is not landlocked by Serbia!

jovan:
No; no-one is above 15,

teni: of course your comments will not pass censorship since they will only be filled with hatred and nonsense. My comments only contained facts and that is why it passed censorship.

miri:
My mama tought me to use the proper language to whoever deserves it.
But you are quite cute in your sarcasm !
bmrusila:
I do not want to see Serbia in EU like this; I want to see you as a strong, confident and democracy committed nation. But not like this, however since you are a serb, I do see sense and understanding.

Noel;
Save us from your comments, being British and European and on top of that , peace-loving, simply does not hold water. The UK is one of the sources for the current malice on Balkans and you do not hold the moral high ground.
You disgust a lot of people as well so let's have a joint throw up in the nearest toilet, shall we ?
BTW how do you think you guessed my origin, by some prejudged sense of my surname ? How about Norwegian or Danish or for that matter US ?
BTW you mention peace, for me it is an agreement based on mutual consense and comittment, in your mind simply just a decree shoved down someones throat ?

To both camps;
You stand an equal chance like a snowball in hell to survive this unless you broker some common ground, simple as that.

John Andersson

What a nice proposal from Tadic...

As if 1999 never happened.

And he expects that to fly anywhere?

Well, he can fly back to Belgrade with his plans and get ready for the isolation that his fellow nationalist politicians will impose on Serbia, by distancing it from the West and bringing it right into Czar Putin's lap.

I guess a Belarus future must be what the Serb people consider awesome for their country.

Finally this means we will declare Indepenence after dec 10th. U.S. troops boosted in the northern part sends to Serbia a very clear message, don't make it wors since the US forces wont hesitate to defend the free democratic soon-to-become state of Kosova.

To gjipeja
Nice try...it will never happen though and why ?
Since all submitting their comments on this web-side can hardly be over 30 right ? Thus given hate by birth and milk.
As an outside observer, European by heart, I am sick and tired of the bickering and finger pointing from both sides even though my sickness is mostly extended to the albanians, Europe's holy cows, a people with only rights and no responsibilities whatsoever in their own minds. Convientely hiding their heads in the ground, pretending they are all victims of serbian submission when the plain truth is, you are even worse which the situation in Kosovo today speaks loud and clear about. To even imagine you having any future in Europe is like believing Jesus actually walked on water, how will you turn the water into wine ? How will you be able to take a place in Europe when you lack the most basic competence needed, spelled COMPROMISE ? What will you do when a decision in Brussels goes against you ? Burn down a mosque ( since all the churches have been demolished already ) ?EU understands this and this is what this "Kosovo thing " ,to paraphrase the US presidential who uttered it, Bill Clinton, is all about; to isolate you from the rest of the civilized world, arm the borders ( NATO ) and let you guys play republic until hell freezes over.
But also to the serbian side, forever victims of outside forces, totally innocent as well as totaly incompetent to rule their own lives, not to mention their own state.
You make me sick to the bone. I hope never to see you in the EU.
Best regards
European John

To all Serbs:
I don't wan to burst your bubble but face the facts. Dardania doesn't belong to you, but to the rightful owners the Albanians. You are new comers to the Balkans and you occupied Dardania for 200 years. We have always been there. If somebody wants to claim that land, then the first should be the Romans that stayed there 9 centuries and second should be the Turks that stayed there 5 centuries. You are the last ones that should claim the Dardania’s land.
You didn’t loose Dardania in 1999 or in 2007, because you never owned that land. If there is a God than I prey to him to forgive you for all the atrocities you have committed through the centuries.
Long live the people of Dardania

"We will see soon, our goal is to have Kosovo independence, based on the plan of Martti Ahtisaari in cooperation with the international community by the end of this year,” Ceku"

- yes sure just the same as last year when he said Indepedence will happen in 2006! Cane Ceku provide a date for the new UN resolution to replace 1244? He had the same US assurance last year - a false promise that is not theirs to give and will never be delivered! In anycase Ceku has zero credibility and in many ways he is just stirring things and making life more difficult for Thaci who is just as aware of the false promise.

Tom O'Donoghue
I see that you have been to Serbia and love it so I guess that has clouded your views a bit. After all one can hardly get an objective view of Albanians in Serbia. So I do not see the point of trying to change your mind on the subject of Serb - K-Albanian relations but I am just gonna point out one of the mistakes in your posting: Serbia is not gonna get greater. It will very shortly get 15% smaller.

Funcakes, you are so full of sarcasm. Can we hear something intelligent from you or do we have to put up with never ending sarcasm?

If the Albanian team is even remotely close to the way you think god help Europe.

The talks ended without any resolution. Did anyone really expect anything different?

Tomorrow is another day and sooner or later this mess will be resolved. It just not might go the way you think. You might wish that you negotiated when you had the opportunity.

I am sending a great support to our team! Belgrade done everything in its power and the proposals were more then generous. The proposals were made so that solution can be found and goals achieved in civilized manner respecting the international law.

Pristina once again expressed high level of ignorance which is expected since ex soldiers cannot or do not know how to negotiate. Lack of political skills and knowledge in Kosovo's high political representatives is just a disaster for Kosovo and Metohija's future.

Just a reminder to everyone – Kosova is de-facto independent now. These talks were not about getting Belgrade's permission about Kosova's independence. The sole purpose was to try to convince Prishtina to re-acquaint itself with the new post Milosevic “democratic” Serb government and consider some kind of re-integration.

During these talks, Prishtina realized that the arrogance, the language used by the Serb delegation and the pseudo-offers made were very reminiscent (if not more aggressive then that) of Milosevic years. The offers Belgrade came up with contained even less than what Kosova had from 1974 to 1989. Remember, according to the 1974 constitution, Kosova was a veto power holding member of the Yugoslav Federation.

Serbia did not offer “equal partnership” of any kind. They didn’t even consider the Prishtina team an equal negotiating partner. They just wanted to have a tight grip of the borders and foreign affairs. In other words, they wanted to be the “rulers”.

Had Serbia first apologized for the crimes in Kosova, considered the Prishtina delegation equal partners (not look down at them, threaten and insult them), things may have taken a different direction.

The Prishtina team realized again (they already did once before during the Ahtisaari mediated meetings) that the talks will not bring a thing.

On a related note, I would like to thank Russia on helping EU reach a unified stand on the Kosova issue.

So ved, are you, in your conspiracy-seeking mind, trying to find a justification for the killing of 12000 people and the displacement of 800,000 more?

I really hope that Serbia enforces some kind of economic blockade on Kosovo.
This is the only way some albanains will stop buying goods from Serbia, and instead start buying local products, and products from Macedonia and Albania, thus increasing economic ties with our good neighbours, and leading to their eceonomic development as well. This would be a great way to improve our economic ties with Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro.

It will also stop all the illegal stuff that comes in from Serbia.

I really hope that Serbia does this.

Yes, in the beginning this will cause difficulties and price increases, but soon the situation will stabilies once new trading routes are established. And I'm sure as hell it won't be worse than in the 90s, and we survived then.

I hope Koshtunica continues doing what he does best: pushing Kosovo towards not only legal indepenence from Serbia, but also economic independence from Serbia.

Please, please block the borders - and lead us to closer ties with Albania and Macedonia!

Pejon, please say hi to the US troops. By the way, when are you going to have your own troops to fight for your cause?

The Kosovo albanians just turned down the most generous offers that any other minority in the world would only dream of. Thank you for showing the world that coexistence and tolerance was never your goal, but that your goal is to cleanse Kosovo of all Serbs and ultimately form a 'greater albania'. Thanks to your lobby groups buying certain American politicians, you almost achieved your goals. ALMOST being the key word.
Tadic and Kostunica have handled themselves masterfully. They have done everything in their power to avert a crisis, and have got nothing for it because of American obstructionism.
Now it is time to stand firm and act like any other country would act if there is an attempt to steal 15% of its territory.
Full economic blockade, cutting of power supplies, and a referendum in Republika Srpska. This is just for starters.

By reading the comments of many in the Serb camp here one can easily gather what their true attitude vis-a-vis the Albanians is. If they consent to doing what Serbia wants or accepting their "compromises" they are good and decent and smart. If the Valley Albanians kiss Serbia's feet for the right to fly their flag, then they are good; otherwise they should shut up because democratic, tolerant saintly Serbia will not allow any such thing. So if we do not share the same opinion as the Serbs about what is best for US, we are just a bunch of former soldiers, ignorant, extremists, criminals and well you name it apparently we got it. Reading all these makes me realize that the best thing that has ever happened to Kosova was Milosevic, the KLA and NATO intervention. It was worth all the suffering and loss to be rid of Serb rule. Thanks to that we now have de facto independence which will soon become de jure too for the US and most of the EU and Russia can get stuffed for all we care. It will mark the end of our participation in a state where many people seem to suffer from a very acute and extreme superiority complex. Because how can one explain comments of the sort bmrusila made about K-Albanian negotiating skills otherwise? Not only do we have international opinion on our side, but twice we got the better of the Serb team in direct negotiations. Once in Rambouille where the brilliant skills of the Milosevic team and the "ignorance" of the K-Albanians led to Serbia being bombed and now again in the talks that have taken Serbia nowhere, but east of the EU and NATO. If these are the results where you base your claim of being superior to us as negotiators well I am truly thankful for the lack of skill of the Albanian team.

@Dragan: "Now it is time to stand firm and act like any other country would act if there is an attempt to steal 15% of its territory.
Full economic blockade, cutting of power supplies,..."

Dragan, what you write is the only thing left, that you can be "proud" of. However the next generation of serbs will look back and will be ashamed for these actions. Your politicians are the losers who lost Kosova with their grotesque attitude. Your army didn't kill us all, and for sure your cutting of power supply and your blockade will not. Just remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

gjipeja, thanks so much for the beautiful article. How much would a bit of vision from all sides have helped this process along.

To the Albanians:
Peggy has mentioned the "sarcasm" in some of your posts. The word I would use is "sneering". It is the attitude of the cowardly schoolyard bully when his big brother is standing at his shoulder. But such attitudes only last till the day reality has to be faced. For your own sakes I hope you are ready for it.
To the Serbs:
Keep cool and lay off with the silly threats. International law is on your side. Serbia is a great country (I have visited many times) and will become greater in the future. In the meantime, maintain the dignity of your position. There is a lot of water to flow under the bridge yet.

Peggy,

You sould be the last one to critisize anybody for sarcasm and arrogance. It was just 2-3 days ago when you repeated your usual arrogant statement " all the Albanians of Kosovo should go to Albania". As a non-Albanian I was thinking again that hearing such "constructive" comments no wonder that the K-Albanians want to be de jure independent ASAP. Peggy keep up the "good work". Repeat your statement on a daily basis.

To Mr Andersson who possibly comes from Sweden. You disgust me and all peace-loving Europeans.

Congratulations to both Serbia and Kosovo.

Kosovo must become independence now.

Nick said >> "2. We are used to electricity cuts, so we dont need your electricity either. We'll just buy generators"
(Nick KS, 28 November 2007 14:59)

Nick, where will you get the money to fill those generators with petro? They do not work on air, you know? Do you even releazie that 40% of all your imports to Kosovo come from Serbia and that anotother 30% of all your foreign imports depend on coming through Serbia? Guess you think that is irrelevant. You will see how much a kilogram of this and a kilogram of that will cost when these essential life sustaining supplies must come into Kosovo via the none Serbia route, furthermore, you will not be able to use Serbian air space, air travel to Kosovo is going to be cost prohibitive to most people. The Albanians survive on a 30 Euros a month provided to them by the charitable EU, how long do you think that this charity will last and how far will that 30 Euros go after economic embargos from Serbia take place? As for the North of Kosovo have no elusions it will separate and join Serbia and NATO will do nothing more than watch! I will be sure to tell you “I told you so” when this happens. Nick, you will forever be looked upon as an illegal rouge country without a UN seat, World Bank membership or even a spot with world sports organizations. Your Kosovo passport will be useless in most countries since most of them including America will never issue visas to Kosovo passport holders, forget ever joining the EU and for that matter NATO because joining NATO would only confirm what Belgrade has been saying for months, Kosovo is a NATO state! I ask you, what have got to be so smug about, what have you achieved for your children, but you probably don’t have children and hence why you are so narrow minded in what you think the future holds for you which is bleak at best.

To the albanian camp -

By all your posts, invasions & desecrations as well as antagonistic comments, it's plain to see who's in the wrong. How is ANYONE going to work together with the few examples of the vigilantes in KosovO & their continuous posts of "bloody Serbs, etc"?

KosovO is Serbian & will remain Serbian! If you want to stay, you need to play by the rules - no more anarchy!! You want anarchy, go elsewhere as we don't need your hot air, criminal activities & desecration.

Thank you!!

Signed - the Serb Camp!

Dragan,

Newsflash for you:

1. Economic blocade will hurt you more than us, we dont export anything to Serbia and we import a very large ammount of goods. Goods which by the way, we can also buy in Macedonia, Montenegro or Albania.

2. We are used to electricity cuts, so we dont need your electricity either. We'll just buy generators

I remeber Çeku saying that Kosova will have its independence on 28 november,well,he wasn't that wrong,negociations ended exactly on 28/11!
By the way,"happy independece day" to all albanians!
from today we will have one more reason to calebrate this anniversary!

"Full economic blockade, cutting off power supplies, and a referendum in Republika Srpska. This is just for starters."

I agree Dragan. If they do not do it, then that will empower the Albanians.

Endri,

Please, less chest thumping. You guys already have power outages. I can't even imagine what will happen when The Serbs cut the power for good. You Albanians are so unrealistic. Welcome to golbal politics.

it´s intersting though...someone doubted the Albanians here to be over 30.. so far, I doubt they left the teenie-age at all.

they just don´t get it, as it seems.
from now on, everything will be in the responsibility of the socalled k-albanian "hero´s" since they were the ones, who were not flexible, who were ignorant towards every compromise. Serbia has done all it could time and again. so, in the meantime everybody knows that it is the Albanians who were die-hard reactionary.
and that is good, but..good for Serbia.
UNSC 1244 is still in effect, if something happens, Serbia has all the right to take care of it´s borders and citizens.
nobody will have the right to raise the voice...
but I don´t think Albanians will be that stupid. they know very well what they would experience. and furthermore, they have been told to be careful...and EVEN if they "declared" anything... what should that mean at all...?

all in all, there are some boys quite terribly misapprehending the situation!

To European John Anderson:
Unfortunately since B92 will edit my comment I cannot properly tell you what I think of your comment.
But I do believe you when you say that you hope to never see any of us in Europe. ;)

Mr John Anderson?
Hasn't your mama taught you never to use this kind of language against anyone? What jungle are you coming from?

How can Kosovo be independent when it is actually a province of Serbia?

I suppose that they can pretend, to be independent. They might find others to pretend along with them for a while. Until they all get bored.

Then one day..... when all the bored people have gone away .... they'll wake ...... and it will still be in Serbia!!!!

Until Serbia says it is not Serbia, it is Serbia ..... and the future goes on for a very long time ..... so dream on .......

However, this is not to be pro-Serb or anti-Albanian.

Envisage the two parties negotiating and agreeing to the point where they can walk - hand-in-hand - together into Europe.

That too may be a dream but at least it is a sensible target.

Peter;

Thank you for wishing us a happy Nov 28, Albanian independence day, this should be done by all the rest of serb posters here. Hey and why not from B92?
Peace and prosperity for all.

There is a really nice article about this issue. I am sorry is not recent... belongs to 20 years later. But nevertheless is a good reflection and in the same time a nice journalistic piece.
http://www.tol.cz/look/TOL/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=4&NrIssue=245&NrSection=2&NrArticle=19180

gjipeja,

I raise a toast to that view of the future - hope to see you all at the Balkan winter olympics in 2034!!

Funkakes!

"What a nice proposal from Tadic...

As if 1999 never happened."

Often we hear this comment by Albanians. Since 1999 happened, only solution is independance.
What about time before 1999?
When Milosevic ofered autonomy talks to Rugova? He refused to talk about anything except independance.
In 1991 there was a referendum on independance in Kosovo.
Why was independance the only solution then, when 1999 did not happen?
Dardan wrote
"During these talks, Prishtina realized that the arrogance, the language used by the Serb delegation and the pseudo-offers made were very reminiscent (if not more aggressive then that) of Milosevic years. The offers Belgrade came up with contained even less than what Kosova had from 1974 to 1989. Remember, according to the 1974 constitution, Kosova was a veto power holding member of the Yugoslav Federation."
So, you admit that Kosovo had a great autonomy.
Why then, rioting and ethnic violance starting in 1980?

Funkakes and others. Come on people, be more realistic.
You don't want independance because of what happened in 1999, but the other way around.
Many things happened, including 1999, because you want independance.
Don't mix your causes and consequences.

European John
(john andersson,


Serbian people are very capable of running their lives and thier own country but there is much interference from outside and therefore looks like we are incapable of it. But I have surprise for you-Serbia wont join EU ever since Serbia is anti-EU and anti- NATO, so nothing to be unhappy for. Perhaps you could send some letter of notice to your government to ignore Srbia in all possible ways. This is enough good reason to never hear about Serbia any longer and you wont feel sick to the bone. Furthermore, I am sure Serbia would benefit if your country (whichever it is)cease to interfere in Serbia's internal and external issues.

To: Nikshala
"This would be a great way to improve our economic ties with Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro."

Well - what a great group of countries to do business with....Albania.......that has not a lot.....Macedonia.....that has not a lot........and Montenegro....that has ties with Serbia.....does Albania have any friends.....

Will the KiM ever become independent? No...Americans don't even believe Bush....but for some reason Albanians do....

Well - after the massive ethnic cleansing of 1999 - the only thing left to the Serbian government is to impose a blockade.

Though not at all a fan of Bush, I cant help but use his words: BRING IT ON!!

For one thing, trade routes do NOT originate from Serbia, thus what is shut in one way - will inevitably lead to the opening of new routes. It's pure economic logic.

Kosovo's demand for goods will NOT subside, and thus given that demand - new supply routes will be established - and it aint important at all whether this new trade routes establishment takes a few months or even a year. Kosovo Albanians have fought for the independence of their country and are willing and capable of withstanding any pressure or economic blockade.

The only thing this blockade will lead to - as someone on the thread already pointed out - is that it will economically detach Kosovo from Serbia to a significant degree.

Make no mistake about it: we will adapt to the pressure. By imposing a blockade you would have used your LAST piece of blackmail - and it will fail spectacularly. It's shooting yourself on the foot - as you will deprive your own businessmen of a significant export market - while given Kosovo's trade structure, the importers will find new ways of getting the same thing. There's absolutely zero reason to believe that a switch to other trade routes will be permanently more costly. The initial reflection in price hikes due to supply shortages will only induce a rapid re-orientation towards suppliers willing to do business with us. And - human nature shows - as long as you have the greenback - any supplier will deal with you.

At the end of it all - no economic blocade will deter the legitimate aspirations of two million people to seek their own legal roof, having experienced only a few years ago an unseen state-sponsored murderous campaign.

Remember, no matter what short-term measures are cooked by your own government - which by the way is only trying to act for purposes of domestic consumption, as in it wants to be seen by the Serbian public as doing 'something about it' - the effects of such actions will no doubt be absorbed by the Kosovars, who will not only establish new economic links and channels, but their political independence will have been strengthened and legitimized by the actions of a country that lost a war in 1999 and still can't come to terms with it.

Mr. Independence - I see you soon!

Nothing to worry about. Kosova is de facto independent since 8 years and has been functioning as a separate state from Serbia since early 90-s. It will be recognized de jure in a few weeks and all this "drama" will end peacefully for the good of all the people in Balkans. Not too long from now, when Kosova and Serbia enter EU, the borders will not exist and it will be like nothing ever happened. Our kids will laugh at our mistakes, paranoia, and stupidity of our days. Until then, we should all resist any calls or provocations for violence from any side. Better days are comming...

i am so very pleased with the outcome of these "troika" sponsored talks, which in any case was 110% predictable. this last stretch of talks was quite unnatural (after all of the other failed talks), and was simply forced by trickery fr moscow/belgrade and the general cowardice and fears of the eu. but all of that is now history. congratulations to a newly independent kosovo/a, and all of its citizens. ignore all of the nasty threats -- as best you can -- and concentrate on a better future. the free and civilized world is with you.

28/11 marks the beginning of new era:
1. Serbia behind doors accepted Kosova as independent state by refering that "Serbia will not defend Kosova by war" Different from statement 10 years ago.
2. Serbia accepts devorce from Kosova by mentioning "Serbia never will recognise Kosova as a state" To prove this point thats what happend between Croatia and Serbia.
3. February 2008, will be the last mile stone reached by Kosova to its independence ofcourse with the help of US, EU & Rest of the world.

Interestingly enough the Bulgarian government has started initiatives and has plans already sketched to do business with Kosovo. I have even read many articles from Bulgarian media that they sort of hope Serbia tries some sort of blockade on Kosovo. Eu would actually prefer that Kosovo is supplied more by an EU member than from Serbia. Thus my confusion with some serbians that actually promote some sort of blockade. You yourself say that you export to Kosovo thus you gain more by this, but you want to stop this and worsen your Economy? I guess your enemployment percentage is zero. Bulgaria in the meantime by doing this will also sell more in Albania, and prosper even more.

Go figure.

Who is telling this guy that Kosovo is de-facto independent? Someone in UNMIK? The White House? WHO? Name your source! Family does not count. Ah, forget it. It takes more than a source. lol.

"It will also stop all the illegal stuff that comes in from Serbia."

Now you made me laugh! An ecomomic blockade in the Balkans? That would never work! Don`t forget , we are all born smugglers! :)

To Ptoleme.
I'm not trying to justify anything at all. Not in the way everyone rushed to justify what happened after 1999 as a "revenge attacks".
I'm just pointing out that "we cannot accept anyting short of independance because of what happened in 1999" is hypocracy. You couldn't accept anything short of independance before. So, give us all a break with that song.

Joe, Show me the article where I said that all K-Albanians should go back to Albania.

My response to Funcakes was that he only has sarcasm and will wish one day that the Albanians had negotiated. When you stop putting words in my mouth we can talk.

Thank you for wishing us a happy Nov 28, Albanian independence day, this should be done by all the rest of serb posters here. Hey and why not from B92?
Peace and prosperity for all.
(Albion New York, 28 November 2007 23:19)

Enough already..respect the fact that Kosovo is Serbian. Lets get a couple things straight..Kosovo never had "republic" status like Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Macedonia, Montenegro, and Srbija...therefore, Kosovo cannot seek independence. The province is a territory of Srbija, deal with it. Your nation is SERBIA!! And to the albanians in Presevo, they are getting away with way too much. No other country in the world would allow what happend today, its a shame!!CCCC

jovan:
No; no-one is above 15,

teni: of course your comments will not pass censorship since they will only be filled with hatred and nonsense. My comments only contained facts and that is why it passed censorship.

miri:
My mama tought me to use the proper language to whoever deserves it.
But you are quite cute in your sarcasm !
bmrusila:
I do not want to see Serbia in EU like this; I want to see you as a strong, confident and democracy committed nation. But not like this, however since you are a serb, I do see sense and understanding.

Noel;
Save us from your comments, being British and European and on top of that , peace-loving, simply does not hold water. The UK is one of the sources for the current malice on Balkans and you do not hold the moral high ground.
You disgust a lot of people as well so let's have a joint throw up in the nearest toilet, shall we ?
BTW how do you think you guessed my origin, by some prejudged sense of my surname ? How about Norwegian or Danish or for that matter US ?
BTW you mention peace, for me it is an agreement based on mutual consense and comittment, in your mind simply just a decree shoved down someones throat ?

To both camps;
You stand an equal chance like a snowball in hell to survive this unless you broker some common ground, simple as that.

John Andersson

Canadian

You obviously do not have a through knowledge of Kosovo and its day to day conditions - Kosovo has not been using Serbia's airspace for the last 8 and a half years!

Most flights go through Albania and some through Montenegro to get to Kosovo.

So good luck trying to block our airspace! :)

This blockade, is going to be a prime example of 'shooting yourself in the foot'. It will make Kosovo independent of Serbia in everyway possible.

and unluckily for Serbia, Kosovo is not landlocked by Serbia!