Hague rejects Dutch Srebrenica motion

The Dutch were protecting a Muslim army base which destroyed scores of Serbian villages and killed thousands of Serbs in the area around and in Srebrenica.

Then the Muslim army - which was many times larger than the UN's - left the night before the Serbs walked in without a fight.

The only Dutch soldier killed was killed by a Bosnian Muslim who didn't want them retreating - yet they themselves, larger than the Dutch, didn't defend Srebrenica at all but walked out.

It was a planned evacuation decided by the Muslim government and the UN, prepared for weeks in advance.

The Muslim commander, Naser Oric, and several of the leadership had left in late April, almost 3 months before the "fall".

Serbians from Kosovo should fallow the suit and sue NATO and K-albanian goverment in Kosovo for 2004 riots.
Proof is in the pictures.

An interesting precident. The Dutch "peacekeepers" officially disarmed Oric#s forces & established a cease fire line between them - they then gave him free reign to pass through the the line to attack villages. Presumably the relatives of the 3,800 Serb villagers will have a better case for damages, indeed if we accept that Oric's genocide from Srebrenica influenced the serbs decision to occupy it then this argument would actually assist Moslem civilians seeking damages, though obviously not relatives of the militia.

Going beyond that since NATO assisted Tudjman in the Krajina & in Bosnia & bombed Yugoslavia in what even the UK Parliament has recognised was an illegal war & worst of all allowed the KLA to murder & cleanse in Kosovo while it was legally under theuir rule, I suspect the Serbs may have a good legal case against almost all NATO member states.

On the other hand the EU court recently awarded a british teacher £40,000 damages because his pupils had made racist remarks. On that basis awards to Serbs shoyuld, legally, run into the trillions & I doubt if any court is so free of political considerations as to be able to make such awards.

"his thugs would kill all male inhabitants of Srebrenica"

They are living in Tuzla, Sarajevo and other places - not counting many Srebrenica men who've actually returned to Srebrenica and are living there now.

There are many thousands of Srebrenica men for your information. You believe too much of the propaganda. And what about them killing the Dutch soldier just before the fall? The Muslims had their army and weapons but decided to walk out without a fight. This despite them being in a defensive position which was too their advantage. They also were provoking the Serbs before the fall and the walkout - seems it was nothing but a trap for the Serbs and the media has made the hoax seem real.

By the way they are counting all their fallen soldiers from both Srebrenica and Zepa as "Srebrenica victims", they are claiming unidentified bodies from all over eastern Bosnia as being Muslims from Srebrenica. They search Serbian villages where Naser Oric and the 28th Brigade operated to find bodies to claim as Muslims.

B92's headline is mistaken.

This is a civil suit for damages, filed in a Dutch court, which today ruled against the Dutch government's attorneys, who had asked that the case be dismissed. This case has nothing to do with the UN War Crimes tribunal (ICTY) or any other international court.

For more on the case, in which the NGO 'Mothers of Srebrenica' are represented by the Dutch law firm Van Diepen Van der Kroof Advocaten, see
http://www.vandiepen.com/en/srebrenica.html

«The ruling is a victory for the prosecution that wants to prove that both the UN and Holland are responsible for the crimes in Srebrenica.»

I honestly think that Mladic is resposnible for what happened in Srebrencia. What could a few Dutch soldiers do aganist an army?

Dutch soldiers did not kill anybody there, responsibility for that terrible war crime lies with those who planned and carried out the genocide. It is shameful to see a Dutch law firm profiting from this hopeless case, probably hoping to extract money from a liberal country.

Dutch are as guilty as the Serbs. They knew exactly what the Serbs would have done with the Muslims and they let them do it. What was their purpose in Bosnia to round up civilians and make them vulnerable to massacres?

Marco, Amsterdam,

If Duthc soldiers are so fragile and scared, then they should consider changing the profession. I am sorry that they have nightmares and suffer from posttraumatic stress but that happens if you are enagaged in wars as a part peacekeeping forces whose job is to provide protection.

Ida,

You are very right when speaking about Serbian victims being counted as Moslems.

"Even the government of the SR has recognized the genocide in Srebrenica"

That government was FORCED to claim such as it is under OCCUPATION by NATO.

Paddy Ashdown fired the Serb officials who wouldn't sign off on the international community's report. It was not an independent commission. Actually the Bosnian Serb governments intial report said there was no genocide and that Bosnian Muslim soldiers died fighting skirmishes during the many miles trek to Bosnian government territory.

That report, which can be found on the internet - I could link it if you wish - infuriated the foreign rulers of Bosnia who thus refused that report and forced the Serbs to come up with one which only stated the international communities propaganda. Paddy Ashdown fired those who wouldn't go along with the forced western agenda.

Therefore there was nothing in the report of independent investigation by Serbs at all - they simply signed off on what was forced on them.

Therefore you really can't say the Serbs had a choice and freely admitted when they weren't able to say what they really believe.

The Serbs are NOT the people who claim that 5,000 Muslim men escaped to Tuzla. It was Izetbegovic's BiH government army spokesmen & the International Committe of the Red Cross [ICRC] & the Western media who made that claim.

If 7 to 8 thousand “men and boys” were executed at close range by AK-47 military assault rifles and dumped in mass graves, there would have been by now - after over 12 years of time elapsed - 7 to 8 thousand Bosnian Muslim male corpses all with bullets in their backs or heads which would have been dug up and forensically examined.

This of course has never happened as 7 to 8 thousand bodies showing signs of execution were NEVER FOUND.

The place was crawling with UN troops, media people from many different countries, NATO+EU+ CIA/MI6 operatives, was being filmed & photographed by unmanned aerial reconnaisance vehicles, photographed by CIA spy satellites,etc.

Hiding and disposing of 8,000 bodies under all this surveillance without being detected would be about as likely as launching an elephant to the moon with a sling shot.

Even the Dutch troops headed by Captain Schouten who came on the scene shortly afterwards in the adjoining village of Bratunac said they never saw any evidence of a large scale massacre.

Here is a statement made by Dutch UN Captain Schouten:

“Everybody is parroting everybody, but nobody shows hard evidence. I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed.If executions have taken place, the Serbs have been hiding it damn well. Thus, I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac [village adjoining Srebrenica] and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped.”

Captain Schouten was the only UN military officer in Bratunac at the time a massacre is alleged.

A commander of the Izetbegovic Muslim-dominated Army of BiH (Bosnia-Herzegovina) later confirmed to parliament in Sarajevo that 5,000 BiH troops ESCAPED LARGELY INTACT to Tuzla while the UN itself registered some 35,632 civilian survivors.

The population of Srebrenica was - according to the media + NATO/EU governments - was 40,632 people.

Add the figure of 35,632 registered AFTER the capture of the town to a minimum of 5,000 Izetbegovic Bosnian Islamist troops who had managed to escape - according to what the Izetbegovic government army spokespeople themselves admitted to the Sarajevo parliament - and you end up with 40,632 people: the very same population of Srebrenica before its capture by the Bosnian Serb VRS.

But if we believe what the ICTY + NATO/EU governments + media are trying to make us believe: 35,632 Bosnian Muslim “survivors” + 5,000 admitted by Izetbegovic’s people to have escaped = 40,632 to which we have to add 8,000 Bosnian Muslim males supposedly massacred = 48,632 people, which is 8,000 MORE people than even existed as the population of Srebrenica (40,632) according to the UN's own figures, prior to its capture.


ICRC (International Committe of the Red Cross)& media press reports back in August-September 1995, categorically stated that roughly 3,000 of Izetbegovic’s troops made it safely to Tuzla (a Muslim controlled town) and were re-incorporated into the Bosnian (Muslim) Army and I quote the ICRC here:

“without their families being informed”.

Izetbegovic’s own Bosnian government army spokespeople said at the time that a further 5,000 Srebrenica men made it safely through to Bosnian Muslim lines!! (now you can understand how they came up with the figure of 8,000 supposedly executed:

5,000 who “went missing” but instead made it safely to Muslim lines + 3,000 who also “went missing” according to the ICRC but who were later re-incorporated into the Bosnian Muslim army of Izetbegovic “without their families being informed” as the ICRC itself later stated to the media)

Within a week of the takeover of Srebrenica (July 18, 1995) one learns from the New York Times report that:

“Some 3,000 to 4,000 Bosnian Muslims who were considered by UN officials to be missing after the fall of Srebrenica HAVE MADE THEIR WAY THROUGH ENEMY LINES TO BOSNIAN GOVERNMENT TERRITORY. The group, which included wounded refugees, sneaked past Serb lines under fire and crossed some 30 miles through forests to safety.”

(Chris Hedges; Conflict in the Balkans: In Bosnia; Muslim Refugees Slip Across Serb Lines; New York Times; July 18, 1995, p. 7.)

http://www.srebrenica-report.com/defense.htm

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Sep1903.htm.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bip/docs/kosovo_polje/srebrenica_hoax.html

It is quite obvious that "everybody" here does not accept the massacre story.

Nor did the ranking Dutch officer there at the time.

""Everybody is parroting everybody, but nobody shows hard evidence. I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. (...) If executions have taken place, the Serbs have been hiding it damn well. Thus, I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped."
-- Captain Schouten
( Captain Schouten was the only UN military officer in Bratunac at the time a massacre is alleged.)

That western newspapers & TV do not mention the doubts does not disprove them - it merely proves that our media are not to be trusted (for those who didn't already know it).

John,
You are quite unfair to the Dutch soldiers who were at Srebrenica. They did not have heavy artillery and therefore, when Mladic was about to attack, asked the UN for air strikes. But apparently French general Javier denied their request. Maybe airstrikes would have prevented the massacre. Also, the Dutch soldiers could not foresee that Mladic and his thugs would kill all male inhabitants of Srebrenica. Finally, many of the Dutch veterans who were at Srebrenica are now suffering from posttraumatic stress disorders (several of them committed suicide). In a way, they and their families are also victims of Mladic. So give them the respect they deserve.

«They are living in Tuzla, Sarajevo and other places - not counting many Srebrenica men who've actually returned to Srebrenica and are living there now. »

Ida,

Even the government of the SR has recognized the genocide in Srebrenica, and the men who were seperated from their wife, herded in buses, and carried away, are not living in Tuzla or Sarajevo. They have been gun down and many soldiers and officers have admitted the crime. So why such a desinformation ? Nobody on this forum believes you, and many over the months have told you that your revisionnist attitude hurts them and also hurts the Serbs as a whole.

Just admit that Mladic has committed an horrific crime that doesn't serve the cause of the Serbian nation in the world.

This massacre in Srebrenica has already passed in History, an you cannot change the fact.

Ida,

For years, the RS refused to admit the massacre, called a genocide by the ICTY and all the european nations, pretenting, as you do, that a few 100 Muslims were killed trying to pass through serbian lines. We all know the facts now, and as I have said, Serb soldiers and officers have testified at the ICTY and have admitted that 1000s of Muslim men have been killed in a few days in July 1995.

What is your agenda? How come you refuse to admit these killings recognized by many Serbs such as Matthew, Alan an others, who write on this forum.

«The ruling is a victory for the prosecution that wants to prove that both the UN and Holland are responsible for the crimes in Srebrenica.»

I honestly think that Mladic is resposnible for what happened in Srebrencia. What could a few Dutch soldiers do aganist an army?

Dutch soldiers did not kill anybody there, responsibility for that terrible war crime lies with those who planned and carried out the genocide. It is shameful to see a Dutch law firm profiting from this hopeless case, probably hoping to extract money from a liberal country.

Marco, Amsterdam,

If Duthc soldiers are so fragile and scared, then they should consider changing the profession. I am sorry that they have nightmares and suffer from posttraumatic stress but that happens if you are enagaged in wars as a part peacekeeping forces whose job is to provide protection.

Ida,

You are very right when speaking about Serbian victims being counted as Moslems.

B92's headline is mistaken.

This is a civil suit for damages, filed in a Dutch court, which today ruled against the Dutch government's attorneys, who had asked that the case be dismissed. This case has nothing to do with the UN War Crimes tribunal (ICTY) or any other international court.

For more on the case, in which the NGO 'Mothers of Srebrenica' are represented by the Dutch law firm Van Diepen Van der Kroof Advocaten, see
http://www.vandiepen.com/en/srebrenica.html

Dutch are as guilty as the Serbs. They knew exactly what the Serbs would have done with the Muslims and they let them do it. What was their purpose in Bosnia to round up civilians and make them vulnerable to massacres?

The Dutch were protecting a Muslim army base which destroyed scores of Serbian villages and killed thousands of Serbs in the area around and in Srebrenica.

Then the Muslim army - which was many times larger than the UN's - left the night before the Serbs walked in without a fight.

The only Dutch soldier killed was killed by a Bosnian Muslim who didn't want them retreating - yet they themselves, larger than the Dutch, didn't defend Srebrenica at all but walked out.

It was a planned evacuation decided by the Muslim government and the UN, prepared for weeks in advance.

The Muslim commander, Naser Oric, and several of the leadership had left in late April, almost 3 months before the "fall".

Serbians from Kosovo should fallow the suit and sue NATO and K-albanian goverment in Kosovo for 2004 riots.
Proof is in the pictures.

An interesting precident. The Dutch "peacekeepers" officially disarmed Oric#s forces & established a cease fire line between them - they then gave him free reign to pass through the the line to attack villages. Presumably the relatives of the 3,800 Serb villagers will have a better case for damages, indeed if we accept that Oric's genocide from Srebrenica influenced the serbs decision to occupy it then this argument would actually assist Moslem civilians seeking damages, though obviously not relatives of the militia.

Going beyond that since NATO assisted Tudjman in the Krajina & in Bosnia & bombed Yugoslavia in what even the UK Parliament has recognised was an illegal war & worst of all allowed the KLA to murder & cleanse in Kosovo while it was legally under theuir rule, I suspect the Serbs may have a good legal case against almost all NATO member states.

On the other hand the EU court recently awarded a british teacher £40,000 damages because his pupils had made racist remarks. On that basis awards to Serbs shoyuld, legally, run into the trillions & I doubt if any court is so free of political considerations as to be able to make such awards.

John,
You are quite unfair to the Dutch soldiers who were at Srebrenica. They did not have heavy artillery and therefore, when Mladic was about to attack, asked the UN for air strikes. But apparently French general Javier denied their request. Maybe airstrikes would have prevented the massacre. Also, the Dutch soldiers could not foresee that Mladic and his thugs would kill all male inhabitants of Srebrenica. Finally, many of the Dutch veterans who were at Srebrenica are now suffering from posttraumatic stress disorders (several of them committed suicide). In a way, they and their families are also victims of Mladic. So give them the respect they deserve.

"his thugs would kill all male inhabitants of Srebrenica"

They are living in Tuzla, Sarajevo and other places - not counting many Srebrenica men who've actually returned to Srebrenica and are living there now.

There are many thousands of Srebrenica men for your information. You believe too much of the propaganda. And what about them killing the Dutch soldier just before the fall? The Muslims had their army and weapons but decided to walk out without a fight. This despite them being in a defensive position which was too their advantage. They also were provoking the Serbs before the fall and the walkout - seems it was nothing but a trap for the Serbs and the media has made the hoax seem real.

By the way they are counting all their fallen soldiers from both Srebrenica and Zepa as "Srebrenica victims", they are claiming unidentified bodies from all over eastern Bosnia as being Muslims from Srebrenica. They search Serbian villages where Naser Oric and the 28th Brigade operated to find bodies to claim as Muslims.

«They are living in Tuzla, Sarajevo and other places - not counting many Srebrenica men who've actually returned to Srebrenica and are living there now. »

Ida,

Even the government of the SR has recognized the genocide in Srebrenica, and the men who were seperated from their wife, herded in buses, and carried away, are not living in Tuzla or Sarajevo. They have been gun down and many soldiers and officers have admitted the crime. So why such a desinformation ? Nobody on this forum believes you, and many over the months have told you that your revisionnist attitude hurts them and also hurts the Serbs as a whole.

Just admit that Mladic has committed an horrific crime that doesn't serve the cause of the Serbian nation in the world.

This massacre in Srebrenica has already passed in History, an you cannot change the fact.

"Even the government of the SR has recognized the genocide in Srebrenica"

That government was FORCED to claim such as it is under OCCUPATION by NATO.

Paddy Ashdown fired the Serb officials who wouldn't sign off on the international community's report. It was not an independent commission. Actually the Bosnian Serb governments intial report said there was no genocide and that Bosnian Muslim soldiers died fighting skirmishes during the many miles trek to Bosnian government territory.

That report, which can be found on the internet - I could link it if you wish - infuriated the foreign rulers of Bosnia who thus refused that report and forced the Serbs to come up with one which only stated the international communities propaganda. Paddy Ashdown fired those who wouldn't go along with the forced western agenda.

Therefore there was nothing in the report of independent investigation by Serbs at all - they simply signed off on what was forced on them.

Therefore you really can't say the Serbs had a choice and freely admitted when they weren't able to say what they really believe.

Ida,

For years, the RS refused to admit the massacre, called a genocide by the ICTY and all the european nations, pretenting, as you do, that a few 100 Muslims were killed trying to pass through serbian lines. We all know the facts now, and as I have said, Serb soldiers and officers have testified at the ICTY and have admitted that 1000s of Muslim men have been killed in a few days in July 1995.

What is your agenda? How come you refuse to admit these killings recognized by many Serbs such as Matthew, Alan an others, who write on this forum.

The Serbs are NOT the people who claim that 5,000 Muslim men escaped to Tuzla. It was Izetbegovic's BiH government army spokesmen & the International Committe of the Red Cross [ICRC] & the Western media who made that claim.

If 7 to 8 thousand “men and boys” were executed at close range by AK-47 military assault rifles and dumped in mass graves, there would have been by now - after over 12 years of time elapsed - 7 to 8 thousand Bosnian Muslim male corpses all with bullets in their backs or heads which would have been dug up and forensically examined.

This of course has never happened as 7 to 8 thousand bodies showing signs of execution were NEVER FOUND.

The place was crawling with UN troops, media people from many different countries, NATO+EU+ CIA/MI6 operatives, was being filmed & photographed by unmanned aerial reconnaisance vehicles, photographed by CIA spy satellites,etc.

Hiding and disposing of 8,000 bodies under all this surveillance without being detected would be about as likely as launching an elephant to the moon with a sling shot.

Even the Dutch troops headed by Captain Schouten who came on the scene shortly afterwards in the adjoining village of Bratunac said they never saw any evidence of a large scale massacre.

Here is a statement made by Dutch UN Captain Schouten:

“Everybody is parroting everybody, but nobody shows hard evidence. I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed.If executions have taken place, the Serbs have been hiding it damn well. Thus, I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac [village adjoining Srebrenica] and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped.”

Captain Schouten was the only UN military officer in Bratunac at the time a massacre is alleged.

A commander of the Izetbegovic Muslim-dominated Army of BiH (Bosnia-Herzegovina) later confirmed to parliament in Sarajevo that 5,000 BiH troops ESCAPED LARGELY INTACT to Tuzla while the UN itself registered some 35,632 civilian survivors.

The population of Srebrenica was - according to the media + NATO/EU governments - was 40,632 people.

Add the figure of 35,632 registered AFTER the capture of the town to a minimum of 5,000 Izetbegovic Bosnian Islamist troops who had managed to escape - according to what the Izetbegovic government army spokespeople themselves admitted to the Sarajevo parliament - and you end up with 40,632 people: the very same population of Srebrenica before its capture by the Bosnian Serb VRS.

But if we believe what the ICTY + NATO/EU governments + media are trying to make us believe: 35,632 Bosnian Muslim “survivors” + 5,000 admitted by Izetbegovic’s people to have escaped = 40,632 to which we have to add 8,000 Bosnian Muslim males supposedly massacred = 48,632 people, which is 8,000 MORE people than even existed as the population of Srebrenica (40,632) according to the UN's own figures, prior to its capture.


ICRC (International Committe of the Red Cross)& media press reports back in August-September 1995, categorically stated that roughly 3,000 of Izetbegovic’s troops made it safely to Tuzla (a Muslim controlled town) and were re-incorporated into the Bosnian (Muslim) Army and I quote the ICRC here:

“without their families being informed”.

Izetbegovic’s own Bosnian government army spokespeople said at the time that a further 5,000 Srebrenica men made it safely through to Bosnian Muslim lines!! (now you can understand how they came up with the figure of 8,000 supposedly executed:

5,000 who “went missing” but instead made it safely to Muslim lines + 3,000 who also “went missing” according to the ICRC but who were later re-incorporated into the Bosnian Muslim army of Izetbegovic “without their families being informed” as the ICRC itself later stated to the media)

Within a week of the takeover of Srebrenica (July 18, 1995) one learns from the New York Times report that:

“Some 3,000 to 4,000 Bosnian Muslims who were considered by UN officials to be missing after the fall of Srebrenica HAVE MADE THEIR WAY THROUGH ENEMY LINES TO BOSNIAN GOVERNMENT TERRITORY. The group, which included wounded refugees, sneaked past Serb lines under fire and crossed some 30 miles through forests to safety.”

(Chris Hedges; Conflict in the Balkans: In Bosnia; Muslim Refugees Slip Across Serb Lines; New York Times; July 18, 1995, p. 7.)

http://www.srebrenica-report.com/defense.htm

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Sep1903.htm.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~bip/docs/kosovo_polje/srebrenica_hoax.html

It is quite obvious that "everybody" here does not accept the massacre story.

Nor did the ranking Dutch officer there at the time.

""Everybody is parroting everybody, but nobody shows hard evidence. I notice that in the Netherlands people want to prove at all costs that genocide has been committed. (...) If executions have taken place, the Serbs have been hiding it damn well. Thus, I don’t believe any of it. The day after the collapse of Srebrenica, July 13, I arrived in Bratunac and stayed there for eight days. I was able to go wherever I wanted to. I was granted all possible assistance; nowhere was I stopped."
-- Captain Schouten
( Captain Schouten was the only UN military officer in Bratunac at the time a massacre is alleged.)

That western newspapers & TV do not mention the doubts does not disprove them - it merely proves that our media are not to be trusted (for those who didn't already know it).