Poland to withdraw troops from Iraq

Congrats to the Poles, seems to me that common sense is finally prevailing there! Next they should decline the US ambition to build a so-called "missile defence system" in Poland. No reason why Warsaw, Krakow, Poznan etc should potentially be in the firing line to save New York, Washington and Chicago. Let the Americans save themselves .... this last statement is tongue in cheek of course, only morons would believe that the US with by far the world's largest nuclear arsenal could seriously be threatened by the Iranians!

It is about time! To this day I cannot understand why Poland even sent troops to Iraq in the first place! We have put 400% effort into this stupid campaign, why should we put in 500%? Next: Afghanistan.

Already Tusk is making a good impression on young Poles, I see a brighter future for us!

Iowe

I strongly believe that this will happen. The potato twins were complete American lapdogs, they did nothing but jump when the US told them so and seemed more keen to ruin relations with Germany and Russia, when in fact the latter are neighbors and the US far, far away. When asked about future plans with regards for this missile shield, Bronis³aw Komorowski (Vice President of Platforma Obywatelska - party in power), said the following:

""We are a member of the European Union, not the United States," said deputy Civic Platform leader Bronislaw Komorowski, emphasising that the party's priority for foreign policy was ratifying the new EU treaty.

"Our goal is to be back in the heart of Europe, not its corner," Komorowski told Reuters in an interview on Monday."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKL2227635020071022

This is an excellent step. The Czechs are also not enthusiastic about the radar station, from what I have read. Maybe it will come along, but not without a better bargain form the US and some kind of agreement from Russia. I would much rather not think what would have happened if those twins were still in power...

Peter,

I hope this is true and let me tell you that while in Kosovo (North)I have noticed that Polish speacial forces were always used in front line when the violence would take place. Believe me, there were almost never French or Belgian forces in front line as they supposed to be since they were placed to keep peace in North. I had impression that Polish forces were sacrificed in establishing the ceasefire. Of course I am talking about the period when Poland was not yet the member of EU. I am so happy that Poland took right steps now. Why would they anyway die for other's cause.

I must add that Serbia is very right when taking distance from possible NATO joining. Why in the Earth to die for American interests?

Iowe

Here is exactly what I mentioned earlier, with B92's permission:

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n127852

"Poland seeks talks with Russia on US missile plan: Tusk"

bmrusila

The Polish special forces (Czerwone Berety, in particular the GROM unit) are a highly respected and extremely professional force. The reason why they are used (and why they were involved in the heaviest fighting in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan) is probably because the Belgian and French special forces don't have the stomach to fight in such warfare, and I am not exaggerating!

I even remember once watching in the news of a joint exercise of the Polish and US special forces, it was with live ammunition and even the US Marines or SEALS (or whatever they were) were not able to complete the task allocated of destroying a tank that was firing on them, but the Poles did with no loss!

However, I am glad our boys are coming home from Iraq, the war in Kosovo, OK, they need to keep the peace there because of its European positioning, but they don't need to go off on these stupid crusades that the US government thinks up.

Looks like the Polish will be joined by the Australians in this exit from the US failed foreign policy disaster that has become a Humanitarian nightmare.

Australia's new Premier when he is sworn in has made a ;
"pledge to pull 550 combat troops from Iraq in a phased withdrawal"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7111479.stm

I guess those 1600 US troops in Serbia's province are urgently and desperatly required to fill the gap left to man the sinking ship and quagmire that the US have created in Iraq - less said of Afghanistan!

Peter,

Thanx for responding. I had no doubt that Polish Special Forces are doing great job and highly respected in the world but I was just saying what I have noticed while in Kosovo. What I did not know is that NATO soldiers are not that highly trained. As being a woman I know nothing about the Army and Special Forces.

Czerwone Berety does this mean red beret?

Peter,

A big congratulations to your Poland for taking such a brave step in trying to rebuild relations with Germany and Russia, two countries which have too many times in the past expressed hostile claims to your territory. This is an extremely positive step for the future of EU relations as Germany and Russia most likely will be the two most influential countries in any future EU community.

If only the Balkans could learn from your experience and wisdom.

Although I have not said it before, I thank you greatly for your even handed and well reasoned comments, even when I don’t agree with you, I respect you. You are definitely a positive voice in a sea of hostility here.

Just wanted to add my congratulations to Peter and to the Polish people on this move to get get out of the American oil war in Iraq. High time, and an originally disastrous decision of the last Polish government.

I wonder Peter what you think in terms of geopolitics: If Poland also gets out of the US misile "shield" business, and the Czechs as you suggest only go ahead with some Russian involvement, how much could Russian-US agreement on a highly modified "shield" project affect their stands of the Kosova question?

DimTuc

In my opinion it probably won't have any impact on the Kosovo issue, because:

1) The implications of any decision on Kosovo will not affect them directly, unlike the US missile shield question, which will.

2) A compromise is possible on this US missile shield between the US and Russia, whereas the Kosovo issue does not appear to have the same possibility.

Poland now pressing for stronger relations (which were strained by the last government) with the EU (in particular Germany) will probably mean that Donald Tusk will eventually support any EU decision (if diplomacy fails).

With his diplomatic skills, he will respect Russia's arguments, I am sure, but as a diplomatic man, Tusk will not deviate from what the EU majority decides (even though he is trying to improve relations with Russia, he knows Poland is a member of the EU and not a Russian Republic), he is not like the Kaczyñski brothers who obey what the US have to say without any questions.

Also his personality is quite gentle, but decisive, which means he will probably try for compromise first until the deadline and maybe after instead of supporting unilateral actions, but when it comes to the crunch, he will support Kosovo independence like most of the other EU countries in order to prevent destabilization.

This is obviously my opinion, I have not heard anything of the Tusk government's positions on Kosovo, but I think it's a reasonable idea of how they will act.

bmrusila

It's not that NATO forces are poorly trained, but the quality of military training ranges from country to country. The German army has a super reputation (one of my friends who was in Bosnia said they were the best NATO army), while for example the Dutch have a poor reputation (one of my friends who was in Iraq said that the Dutch army was not entrusted with any real operations), and Poland happens to be high up.

Yes, Czerwone Berety does mean "Red Berets", it's not a formal term for them, just a nickname for all Polish special forces (GROM is the primary unit, most likely they are used in Kosovo).

Matthew

Haha, I was just about to say the same thing: if Poland is trying to forge close relations with the two countries who share such a history with us, then this surely is a sign that people in the Balkans can do the same. All in good time of course, the war wounds are still fresh, the hatred is still deep, but it does not last forever. Wounds heal and hatred fades, one day it will be alright, the younger generations will ensure this.

Thank You also for the good words, I try to be as reasonable as possible towards both sides in my comments, even though some Albanians label me in the Serb-camp (only because I still believe a compromise is the best way). I have to say that as a US citizen (are you originally Serbian or Montenegrin, I am trying to remember now) you also don't point fingers at one side, which is the kind of attitude that everyone should try aim for to achieve reconciliation (something people like KS, Jovan, Clean Cut and Cvele could learn).

Well I don't want to burst the bubble of some commentators or downplay the importance or quality of the Polish Army (or a small fraction of it). I just want to say that it will not be the end of the world without those 900 Polish soldiers. I am glad to see that the quality of the Polish armee improved since 1939, when the Polish cavalry was charging against German tanks. I saw it in a documentary film. I am still wondering about the "logic" behind.

Congrats to the Poles, seems to me that common sense is finally prevailing there! Next they should decline the US ambition to build a so-called "missile defence system" in Poland. No reason why Warsaw, Krakow, Poznan etc should potentially be in the firing line to save New York, Washington and Chicago. Let the Americans save themselves .... this last statement is tongue in cheek of course, only morons would believe that the US with by far the world's largest nuclear arsenal could seriously be threatened by the Iranians!

It is about time! To this day I cannot understand why Poland even sent troops to Iraq in the first place! We have put 400% effort into this stupid campaign, why should we put in 500%? Next: Afghanistan.

Already Tusk is making a good impression on young Poles, I see a brighter future for us!

Iowe

I strongly believe that this will happen. The potato twins were complete American lapdogs, they did nothing but jump when the US told them so and seemed more keen to ruin relations with Germany and Russia, when in fact the latter are neighbors and the US far, far away. When asked about future plans with regards for this missile shield, Bronis³aw Komorowski (Vice President of Platforma Obywatelska - party in power), said the following:

""We are a member of the European Union, not the United States," said deputy Civic Platform leader Bronislaw Komorowski, emphasising that the party's priority for foreign policy was ratifying the new EU treaty.

"Our goal is to be back in the heart of Europe, not its corner," Komorowski told Reuters in an interview on Monday."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKL2227635020071022

This is an excellent step. The Czechs are also not enthusiastic about the radar station, from what I have read. Maybe it will come along, but not without a better bargain form the US and some kind of agreement from Russia. I would much rather not think what would have happened if those twins were still in power...

Iowe

Here is exactly what I mentioned earlier, with B92's permission:

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n127852

"Poland seeks talks with Russia on US missile plan: Tusk"

Peter,

I hope this is true and let me tell you that while in Kosovo (North)I have noticed that Polish speacial forces were always used in front line when the violence would take place. Believe me, there were almost never French or Belgian forces in front line as they supposed to be since they were placed to keep peace in North. I had impression that Polish forces were sacrificed in establishing the ceasefire. Of course I am talking about the period when Poland was not yet the member of EU. I am so happy that Poland took right steps now. Why would they anyway die for other's cause.

I must add that Serbia is very right when taking distance from possible NATO joining. Why in the Earth to die for American interests?

bmrusila

The Polish special forces (Czerwone Berety, in particular the GROM unit) are a highly respected and extremely professional force. The reason why they are used (and why they were involved in the heaviest fighting in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan) is probably because the Belgian and French special forces don't have the stomach to fight in such warfare, and I am not exaggerating!

I even remember once watching in the news of a joint exercise of the Polish and US special forces, it was with live ammunition and even the US Marines or SEALS (or whatever they were) were not able to complete the task allocated of destroying a tank that was firing on them, but the Poles did with no loss!

However, I am glad our boys are coming home from Iraq, the war in Kosovo, OK, they need to keep the peace there because of its European positioning, but they don't need to go off on these stupid crusades that the US government thinks up.

Peter,

Thanx for responding. I had no doubt that Polish Special Forces are doing great job and highly respected in the world but I was just saying what I have noticed while in Kosovo. What I did not know is that NATO soldiers are not that highly trained. As being a woman I know nothing about the Army and Special Forces.

Czerwone Berety does this mean red beret?

Peter,

A big congratulations to your Poland for taking such a brave step in trying to rebuild relations with Germany and Russia, two countries which have too many times in the past expressed hostile claims to your territory. This is an extremely positive step for the future of EU relations as Germany and Russia most likely will be the two most influential countries in any future EU community.

If only the Balkans could learn from your experience and wisdom.

Although I have not said it before, I thank you greatly for your even handed and well reasoned comments, even when I don’t agree with you, I respect you. You are definitely a positive voice in a sea of hostility here.

Looks like the Polish will be joined by the Australians in this exit from the US failed foreign policy disaster that has become a Humanitarian nightmare.

Australia's new Premier when he is sworn in has made a ;
"pledge to pull 550 combat troops from Iraq in a phased withdrawal"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7111479.stm

I guess those 1600 US troops in Serbia's province are urgently and desperatly required to fill the gap left to man the sinking ship and quagmire that the US have created in Iraq - less said of Afghanistan!

Just wanted to add my congratulations to Peter and to the Polish people on this move to get get out of the American oil war in Iraq. High time, and an originally disastrous decision of the last Polish government.

I wonder Peter what you think in terms of geopolitics: If Poland also gets out of the US misile "shield" business, and the Czechs as you suggest only go ahead with some Russian involvement, how much could Russian-US agreement on a highly modified "shield" project affect their stands of the Kosova question?

bmrusila

It's not that NATO forces are poorly trained, but the quality of military training ranges from country to country. The German army has a super reputation (one of my friends who was in Bosnia said they were the best NATO army), while for example the Dutch have a poor reputation (one of my friends who was in Iraq said that the Dutch army was not entrusted with any real operations), and Poland happens to be high up.

Yes, Czerwone Berety does mean "Red Berets", it's not a formal term for them, just a nickname for all Polish special forces (GROM is the primary unit, most likely they are used in Kosovo).

Matthew

Haha, I was just about to say the same thing: if Poland is trying to forge close relations with the two countries who share such a history with us, then this surely is a sign that people in the Balkans can do the same. All in good time of course, the war wounds are still fresh, the hatred is still deep, but it does not last forever. Wounds heal and hatred fades, one day it will be alright, the younger generations will ensure this.

Thank You also for the good words, I try to be as reasonable as possible towards both sides in my comments, even though some Albanians label me in the Serb-camp (only because I still believe a compromise is the best way). I have to say that as a US citizen (are you originally Serbian or Montenegrin, I am trying to remember now) you also don't point fingers at one side, which is the kind of attitude that everyone should try aim for to achieve reconciliation (something people like KS, Jovan, Clean Cut and Cvele could learn).

DimTuc

In my opinion it probably won't have any impact on the Kosovo issue, because:

1) The implications of any decision on Kosovo will not affect them directly, unlike the US missile shield question, which will.

2) A compromise is possible on this US missile shield between the US and Russia, whereas the Kosovo issue does not appear to have the same possibility.

Poland now pressing for stronger relations (which were strained by the last government) with the EU (in particular Germany) will probably mean that Donald Tusk will eventually support any EU decision (if diplomacy fails).

With his diplomatic skills, he will respect Russia's arguments, I am sure, but as a diplomatic man, Tusk will not deviate from what the EU majority decides (even though he is trying to improve relations with Russia, he knows Poland is a member of the EU and not a Russian Republic), he is not like the Kaczyñski brothers who obey what the US have to say without any questions.

Also his personality is quite gentle, but decisive, which means he will probably try for compromise first until the deadline and maybe after instead of supporting unilateral actions, but when it comes to the crunch, he will support Kosovo independence like most of the other EU countries in order to prevent destabilization.

This is obviously my opinion, I have not heard anything of the Tusk government's positions on Kosovo, but I think it's a reasonable idea of how they will act.

Well I don't want to burst the bubble of some commentators or downplay the importance or quality of the Polish Army (or a small fraction of it). I just want to say that it will not be the end of the world without those 900 Polish soldiers. I am glad to see that the quality of the Polish armee improved since 1939, when the Polish cavalry was charging against German tanks. I saw it in a documentary film. I am still wondering about the "logic" behind.