EU states and Kosovo recognition: More than 20, less than 27

I think it's unanimous...but with the right to abstain.

So for example, Spain would not personally recognize Kosovo, but would not use a veto when it comes to all of EU recognizing independence.

Princip

are you reading the same article as the rest of us??

"“Kosovo should be independent, but it should not take the form of an unmanaged unilateral declaration. It should be a declaration coordinated with the international community,” Murphy told reporters. "

murphy... how about we co-ordinate the breakup of your united kingdom?

NO Miri,

Murphy stated 20 would support UN authorised "supervised independence" but that is far from 20 who would support any independence outwith the UN laws especially givne that the UK and France formulated and signed a binding UN SC resolution (1244) which reaffirmed Serbia's sovereignity - the legalist EU know they cant get round this as much as a "few" Eu countries would like it to be otherwise.

Reality is the EU unity position that they all agree must be the way forward and that is highly unlikely to be any form of independence - the best you will get is EU "supervised autonomy" - nothing more nothing less.

I looks like the time for "negotiating for reaching a compromise" is well spent after all. More than 20 out of 27 are on board with K-independence. Only few countries are left to be convinced. If they do not say it out loud before December 10 they will do so after independence is a fact of life.

For me >20 is fine if just gets on board Spain...

EU states and Kosovo recognition: More than 20, less than 27

Correction! The fact is 6 – 100% against independence, 15 still undecided and 6 – 100% for impendence! Its amazing how the EU assumes that the undecided will swing towards independence when the time comes, they forget that Russia can and probably will play their energy blackmail card which will change the numbers dramatically.

As an Albanian,I feel that the time has come to decide the date to declare the independence!
I am not saying it has to be straight away,but the date has to be set.

The West is still confused!
I think this process will go forever as they want to find a win-win solution.
They are scared of "hurting" someone's feeling!!!

I have a feeling that something will happen in North of Ibar within few weeks which could lead to more troubles.
And then the process will be more delayed,then more negotiation,more talks!!!

I hate to say,but my win-win is:North of Ibar to join Serbia and the rest of Kosovo to have full independence!
It is hard to except and sometimes Reality hurts!

There may be 20 or so states that support independence as the seemingly only practical solution. However, this does not mean that there are 20 or so states that will recognise it without a Security Council resolution, or in contravention of international law.

Princip,
Your naive and twisting comments never cease to amaze me.
I must admit you are a good truth twister. Actually you should start writing some thriller book.

How on earth you are trying to twist this story from
" “A large European majority already exists in support of recognizing Kosovo independence, certainly more than 20 countries, though we don’t yet have all 27,” Murphy told reporters after yesterday’s meeting" to

Murphy stated 20 would support UN authorised "supervised independence"

I must admit though that you almost had me convinced that I must've missed the "UN supervised". So much so that I had to go and read the article again :)).

Nice try m8 and the more you and your co do this, trying to twist stories, the more I am convinced that Independent is just a matter of weeks rather than months.

“A large European majority already exists in support of recognizing Kosovo independence, certainly more than 20 countries, though we don’t yet have all 27,” Murphy told reporters after yesterday’s meeting.

This is a loaded statement. Most of the so-called "20" would only accept a solution that is a) negotiated and b) agreeable to both Serbs and Albanians.

The only countries that would unilaterally recognize whatever Pristina says - and even here have been moves to shy away from - are Britain, and possibly France. There is a major difference in understanding which countries are "on board" and which are on board if and only if conditional prerequisites are met.

So I think a more fair assessment is:

2 - 3 for unilateral recognition

9 - 12 for negotiated solution

at least 5 opposed without UN approval.

But still, no matter how you fudge the numbers, they still don't add up to unanimous concensus.

I am surprised and awed as how many "specialists" gathered in here so fast, with "real" numbers and percentages in hand. Even though the reality is that a huge majority of EU will recognise de jure the independence of Kosova, still the answer to all you "specialists" is: Kosova is de facto Independent and no one can stop the de jure recognition. So, even if it were only 2 countries Pro and many against, still THE SHIP HAS SAILED.

Now, I would love to know who's really running the show - is it the EU, US, NATO or UNMIK? This is getting absolutely ridiculous & all these claims to "supporting autonomy", etc is really upsetting all of the persons residing in Serbia (which includes KosovO).

This is a grave mistake that will bear unretractable results by all! These leaders should really do their homework before sticking their foot in their mouth!

According to this & the now infamous 1244 resolution/plan/whatever - everyone is just grasping at straws as there is NO VALIDITY in anything anyone is saying.

Thaci won (according to the polls) - he's going to jail - hello!!! That's just like Gotovina becoming the president of Croatia - it just isn't happening!

When the minister says 20+...and none of those 20+ are rejecting his statement, then how do you come to the conclusion that they won't recognize unilateral independence?

Don't wishful-think yourselves...EU won't side with Russia over US.

Kosovo will never be independent. Cyprus or Greece or Spain or any of these 'little' countries will VETO the resolution... which they have no choice but to.... and EU will never recognise Kosovo as anything other then what is stated in resolution 1244... which means Kosovo is and always will be Serbia. CCCC

do you know who was Princip? he is the serbian murderer that, killed the austrian prince in Sarajevo and began the World War I. Kosovo de facto IS indipendent from Serbia. It will be soon and de jure indipendent. This can't be stopped.

I wonder if the opposing countries will change their minds after December the 10th. I think Kosovo has some hard work to do to convince them. A divided EU would do Kosovo little good in the future.

"I hate to say,but my win-win is:North of Ibar to join Serbia and the rest of Kosovo to have full independence!
It is hard to except and sometimes Reality hurts!
(louie, 20 November 2007 17:35)"

You may be right, I don't see Kosovo Serbs wanting to integrate into Kosovo, and they have the right to rejoin Serbia after 2004. Only problem is that RS may want the same and I doubt anyone will stop that. This is why everyone fears precedents.

my dear albanian friends...

but there are some things, your propaganda-papers cannot change: reality.

UNSC 1244 is still in effect, and guess what?

it is very clear, there is no space for "interpretation" as one Albanian poster wanted to mislead us here... who knows, perhaps he is paid by the Taci-thugs... who knows that,...but finally it is irrelevant.

international law is in effect and the old latin saying is:

pacta sunt servanda

Oh, another thing Princip.
You are keen for EU supervised Autonomy and thats legal according to you but it is illegal for EU supervised Independent.

I mean shouldn't we Albanians-Kosovars who lived there and still live decide on our fate? After all we are majority and have been for centuries.

what does the eu need to make decisions to recognize states?
unanimous vote or qualified majority?
that is the only question here.
if the first is true, then 26 is a lot, but just not good enough.
if the second is true, then congratulations, "more than 20" does it.

Goran,

you are very honest with your post and it shows opinion and fear of many people in Serbia and elsewere. This may be because of the intentiond of Serbia with its neighbour countries?!
In one side you are aware that Kosovo Albanians should have the right for self-determination, but you doubt to say this loudly because you are afraid where and when will Albanians stop with their expansionism. This feelings you have because of Serbian propaganda for so called 'Big Albania', otherwise there are international documents approved by Albanians and Kosovars which guarantee that Kosovo will not have the right for unification with any other states and/or annex any part of other states. With time these guarantees can be internationally ratified by Kosovo and it's neighbour states, including Serbia. So, whoever, including Serbia, has these feelings and fears shoud express them loudly and can get all needed international guarantees...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way no matter with 20, 25 or 27 EU countries...

Lets face it, there will never be a concesus. If Kosovo declares independence, what then? I would really want to know from our Kosovo Albanian friends, how they preceive there future will be. Kosovo if ever independent in all due respect I doudt it will be isolated, it will eventually join Albania. Then what, are there plans to take alittle more from the Serbian south, alittle from Macedonia, alittle from Montenegro and maybe a nice chunk from Greece. These are all possible outcomes. How far will the international community just sit and watch! Don't get me wrong, kosovo Albanian's should have the opportunity to decide their own destiny, but how far are you willing to go in return sacrificing and indangering other nations and their ideals?

do you know who was Princip? he is the serbian murderer that, killed the austrian prince in Sarajevo and began the World War I. Kosovo de facto IS indipendent from Serbia. It will be soon and de jure indipendent. This can't be stopped.

I looks like the time for "negotiating for reaching a compromise" is well spent after all. More than 20 out of 27 are on board with K-independence. Only few countries are left to be convinced. If they do not say it out loud before December 10 they will do so after independence is a fact of life.

NO Miri,

Murphy stated 20 would support UN authorised "supervised independence" but that is far from 20 who would support any independence outwith the UN laws especially givne that the UK and France formulated and signed a binding UN SC resolution (1244) which reaffirmed Serbia's sovereignity - the legalist EU know they cant get round this as much as a "few" Eu countries would like it to be otherwise.

Reality is the EU unity position that they all agree must be the way forward and that is highly unlikely to be any form of independence - the best you will get is EU "supervised autonomy" - nothing more nothing less.

As an Albanian,I feel that the time has come to decide the date to declare the independence!
I am not saying it has to be straight away,but the date has to be set.

The West is still confused!
I think this process will go forever as they want to find a win-win solution.
They are scared of "hurting" someone's feeling!!!

I have a feeling that something will happen in North of Ibar within few weeks which could lead to more troubles.
And then the process will be more delayed,then more negotiation,more talks!!!

I hate to say,but my win-win is:North of Ibar to join Serbia and the rest of Kosovo to have full independence!
It is hard to except and sometimes Reality hurts!

Princip

are you reading the same article as the rest of us??

EU states and Kosovo recognition: More than 20, less than 27

Correction! The fact is 6 – 100% against independence, 15 still undecided and 6 – 100% for impendence! Its amazing how the EU assumes that the undecided will swing towards independence when the time comes, they forget that Russia can and probably will play their energy blackmail card which will change the numbers dramatically.

I am surprised and awed as how many "specialists" gathered in here so fast, with "real" numbers and percentages in hand. Even though the reality is that a huge majority of EU will recognise de jure the independence of Kosova, still the answer to all you "specialists" is: Kosova is de facto Independent and no one can stop the de jure recognition. So, even if it were only 2 countries Pro and many against, still THE SHIP HAS SAILED.

When the minister says 20+...and none of those 20+ are rejecting his statement, then how do you come to the conclusion that they won't recognize unilateral independence?

Don't wishful-think yourselves...EU won't side with Russia over US.

There may be 20 or so states that support independence as the seemingly only practical solution. However, this does not mean that there are 20 or so states that will recognise it without a Security Council resolution, or in contravention of international law.

For me >20 is fine if just gets on board Spain...

I think it's unanimous...but with the right to abstain.

So for example, Spain would not personally recognize Kosovo, but would not use a veto when it comes to all of EU recognizing independence.

"“Kosovo should be independent, but it should not take the form of an unmanaged unilateral declaration. It should be a declaration coordinated with the international community,” Murphy told reporters. "

murphy... how about we co-ordinate the breakup of your united kingdom?

my dear albanian friends...

but there are some things, your propaganda-papers cannot change: reality.

UNSC 1244 is still in effect, and guess what?

it is very clear, there is no space for "interpretation" as one Albanian poster wanted to mislead us here... who knows, perhaps he is paid by the Taci-thugs... who knows that,...but finally it is irrelevant.

international law is in effect and the old latin saying is:

pacta sunt servanda

Princip,
Your naive and twisting comments never cease to amaze me.
I must admit you are a good truth twister. Actually you should start writing some thriller book.

How on earth you are trying to twist this story from
" “A large European majority already exists in support of recognizing Kosovo independence, certainly more than 20 countries, though we don’t yet have all 27,” Murphy told reporters after yesterday’s meeting" to

Murphy stated 20 would support UN authorised "supervised independence"

I must admit though that you almost had me convinced that I must've missed the "UN supervised". So much so that I had to go and read the article again :)).

Nice try m8 and the more you and your co do this, trying to twist stories, the more I am convinced that Independent is just a matter of weeks rather than months.

what does the eu need to make decisions to recognize states?
unanimous vote or qualified majority?
that is the only question here.
if the first is true, then 26 is a lot, but just not good enough.
if the second is true, then congratulations, "more than 20" does it.

I wonder if the opposing countries will change their minds after December the 10th. I think Kosovo has some hard work to do to convince them. A divided EU would do Kosovo little good in the future.

"I hate to say,but my win-win is:North of Ibar to join Serbia and the rest of Kosovo to have full independence!
It is hard to except and sometimes Reality hurts!
(louie, 20 November 2007 17:35)"

You may be right, I don't see Kosovo Serbs wanting to integrate into Kosovo, and they have the right to rejoin Serbia after 2004. Only problem is that RS may want the same and I doubt anyone will stop that. This is why everyone fears precedents.

“A large European majority already exists in support of recognizing Kosovo independence, certainly more than 20 countries, though we don’t yet have all 27,” Murphy told reporters after yesterday’s meeting.

This is a loaded statement. Most of the so-called "20" would only accept a solution that is a) negotiated and b) agreeable to both Serbs and Albanians.

The only countries that would unilaterally recognize whatever Pristina says - and even here have been moves to shy away from - are Britain, and possibly France. There is a major difference in understanding which countries are "on board" and which are on board if and only if conditional prerequisites are met.

So I think a more fair assessment is:

2 - 3 for unilateral recognition

9 - 12 for negotiated solution

at least 5 opposed without UN approval.

But still, no matter how you fudge the numbers, they still don't add up to unanimous concensus.

Now, I would love to know who's really running the show - is it the EU, US, NATO or UNMIK? This is getting absolutely ridiculous & all these claims to "supporting autonomy", etc is really upsetting all of the persons residing in Serbia (which includes KosovO).

This is a grave mistake that will bear unretractable results by all! These leaders should really do their homework before sticking their foot in their mouth!

According to this & the now infamous 1244 resolution/plan/whatever - everyone is just grasping at straws as there is NO VALIDITY in anything anyone is saying.

Thaci won (according to the polls) - he's going to jail - hello!!! That's just like Gotovina becoming the president of Croatia - it just isn't happening!

Kosovo will never be independent. Cyprus or Greece or Spain or any of these 'little' countries will VETO the resolution... which they have no choice but to.... and EU will never recognise Kosovo as anything other then what is stated in resolution 1244... which means Kosovo is and always will be Serbia. CCCC

Oh, another thing Princip.
You are keen for EU supervised Autonomy and thats legal according to you but it is illegal for EU supervised Independent.

I mean shouldn't we Albanians-Kosovars who lived there and still live decide on our fate? After all we are majority and have been for centuries.

Lets face it, there will never be a concesus. If Kosovo declares independence, what then? I would really want to know from our Kosovo Albanian friends, how they preceive there future will be. Kosovo if ever independent in all due respect I doudt it will be isolated, it will eventually join Albania. Then what, are there plans to take alittle more from the Serbian south, alittle from Macedonia, alittle from Montenegro and maybe a nice chunk from Greece. These are all possible outcomes. How far will the international community just sit and watch! Don't get me wrong, kosovo Albanian's should have the opportunity to decide their own destiny, but how far are you willing to go in return sacrificing and indangering other nations and their ideals?

Goran,

you are very honest with your post and it shows opinion and fear of many people in Serbia and elsewere. This may be because of the intentiond of Serbia with its neighbour countries?!
In one side you are aware that Kosovo Albanians should have the right for self-determination, but you doubt to say this loudly because you are afraid where and when will Albanians stop with their expansionism. This feelings you have because of Serbian propaganda for so called 'Big Albania', otherwise there are international documents approved by Albanians and Kosovars which guarantee that Kosovo will not have the right for unification with any other states and/or annex any part of other states. With time these guarantees can be internationally ratified by Kosovo and it's neighbour states, including Serbia. So, whoever, including Serbia, has these feelings and fears shoud express them loudly and can get all needed international guarantees...
Good luck Kosovo on your own way no matter with 20, 25 or 27 EU countries...