Abkhazia threatens to follow Kosovo's lead

Bravo Mr. Shamba! Simlarly, it is high time for Milorad Dodik to announce a referendum on independence in Republika Srpska in case Americans go ahead with their illegal and immoral greater albania plan. No more double standards. This American policy of 'some nations being more equal than others' is unjust and and racist. People like Nicholas Burns at the State Department clearly have no shame.

Niall,

what about the 30%+ ethnic Russians in the two EU countries of Estonia and Latvia - surely if the EU countries wish to see an illegal process enforced upon Serbia they need to be only too aware of all the consequences within EU borders not just the obvious ones such as Spain etc...

I wonder if Solana had this in mind too?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.......

Here comes the domino effect - Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Tatarstan, Pays Basques, Northern Ireland, Kurdistan, Tibet, Palestine, Darfur, southern Sudan, Iraq, Irian Jaya, Tamils,etc....

Now the fun begins. I wonder did Dubya have this in mind in his speech in Tirana last June. Not likely

Olf,

I'm curious. . .why didn't you include the Mexicans in regions of California or Texas? Is it not to offend the Americans that are supporting your land grab?

Anyways. . .just like the Albanians in Kosovo, the Hungarians in Vojvodina, the Slavic-Moslems in Sandak and the Albanians in the Presevo Valley are ALL minorities in Serbia! Moreover, in the case of the Sandak Moslems, the Hungarians in Vojvodina and the Presevo Valley Albanians, there was no rebellion that sparked a war or any kind of reprisals.

Moreover, how would you envision that these 'proposed states' function? They're too small and economically insufficient to operate effectively.

Let me ask the Albanian posters something. You all seem so gung-ho on Kosmet's independence, right? Are you going to feed your kids independence, heat your homes with independence, fill your car with independence. . .is independence going to get you that great job?

Kosovo has an unemployment rate of over 60%, 65% of its GDP comes from foreign aid or remittances (diaspora sending money home) and 70% of your foreign trade is with Serbia. . .doesn't this worry anyone?

Anyone?

'Just a pity Niall the Irish man is so much against Northern Ireland splitting with "UK" and rejoining Ireland.
(DimTuc, 20 November 2007 15:23)'

as an Irish Republican Socialist my deepest desire is for the full unification of Ireland under a 32 county secular socialist umbrella. However I have to face reality. In Northern Ireland majority of its citizens (approx 55%) wish to remain in the UK and under international law I believe that the UK's right to its territorial sovereignty is sacrosant as with Serbia's. Why should one country's right to protect its own territorial integrity be recognized while anothers (Serbia) is not. Besides I voted for the Good Friday Agreement in supporting a compromise for peace and development within the conext of international law and within the framework of an impartial and just peace process. So what if we had to give up our territorial aspirations. I think the K-Albanians need to take a look at the Irish model and use it.

Serbia simply will not give up Kosovo which leads only 1 logical course of action, talks and compromise. We did it with our Protestant neighbours, despite all the macho and belicose military talk, so why cannot you lot just sit up and face reality. There is no outlet in international law for this illegal landgrab. The K-Albanians are on very flimsy legal ground and threading a very dangerous path by insisting on independence.

Princip,

of course I havent forgottn about the Estonia and Latvia situation. (My g/f is an ethnic Russian from Latvia and from what she tells me life for Russians is full of discrimination)

Anyway This potential Gordian Knot is not just confined to the Baltic states. How about those ethnic Hungarians & Slovaks scattered all over the former Austro-Hungarian lands, Serbia included. The whole of Europe could unravel. These are not idle threats. In these situations one must never rule out the worst case scenario.

Every household sends a son to work somewhere and they send money...Kosovars are hard workers.
(KS, 20 November 2007 20:11)

Hard workers, eh? Why is there 70% unemployment? Why is Kosovo the drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? How come albanians can't even run a power plant properly despite billions in aid from the Americans?

This excellent, I am so amused.

Olf,

Don't forget that Serbs make vast majority in Vojvodina. I know that this fact is painful for you but is just the fact. Sandzak is very divided in two fractions and that pro Serb fraction + Serbs living in there still make majority, so Sandzak is going nowhere,sorry again to disappoint you with these facts. And for the Presevo Valley people if they like they may join you in Kosovo any time, we don't care but you are not taking anything with you exept the cash from the sold houses. Yet in Medvedja Serbs make majority and Presevo Valley had never had any special status so it stay as a part of Serbia. The reason that you make maojority wont work anymore, believe me. Serbs have green light from NATO to keep order in Presevo Valley. So , continue with nice dreams

Funcakes

The reason there was no NATO intervention is because NATO would not dare to invade Russia's sphere of influence in exactly the same way Russia would not dare to invade NATO's sphere of influence. Why do you think NATO did nothing in Chechnya or Dagestan? It is all about geopolitical positioning.

"If Abkahzia was treated by Georgia the SAME way Kosovo was treated by Serbia, then they could talk about double standards. "

20 000 Georgians and 10 000 Abkhazians were killed in the war, 300 000 people were displaced, the economy was destroyed, if you did not know about the war then I suggest you Google Georgian-Abkhazian Conflict and then you will be able to make a better reply.

miri

Abkhazia has wanted independence since Stalin randomly butted Abkjazia, Ossetia and Adjarta to Georgia in the 30's, their struggle began in 1989. Abkhazians lost 10 000 out of 70 000 of its population, that's 15%!!!

I also suggest you read a little into what happened.

No one is saying ALL Albanians, only that they are committing crimes in high degree in EU countries and Britain.

Even today, Italy arrests an Albanian gang for distributing drugs throughout Italy, and intercepted a motorboat of 17 Kosovars trying to enter Italy illegally:

http://www.makfax.com.mk/look/novina/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=2&NrArticle=91217&NrIssue=509&NrSection=20

"Italian authorities bust Albanian drug smugglers and catch illegal immigrants"

Then there are the Albanian gangs making money off of exploitation of women:

A barbaric trade in human misery right on our doorsteps

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features/A-barbaric-trade-in-human.3490580.jp

“Only last week an Albanian and a Lithuanian were among four people arrested in Leeds on suspicion of human trafficking within the UK and controlling prostitution.”

…

"Some are UK pimps, while others have international rings like Triad gangs and Vietnamese gangs and there was an Albanian crime gang we took out."

Were they smart they would be courting the West not threatening it, who will recognize them, Serbia and Russia?
Adrian Gashi,

For your information everybody cannot be the same in this world not many nations can court to the West as you do. Special character is needed for that.Some people have pride. And yes Russia will recognise them along with Serbia. Russia can take care of them better than Georgia if needed. But you Albanians have no one to take care of you after USA and EU turn thier heads from you.

Now tell me how this is not an insult to all Albanians (non-Kosovars), "drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? (Referring to Kosova)"
(KS,

Because it is true. Everyone in this Earth know it exept some posters overhere. That's why it is published. Simple as that

Here you go Miri, I'm showing more than one that wants to seperate from the USA Read the comments of the Americans on the bottom too and see what they want to do with them.

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=1244

Miri!
Let me respond to your comment No. 8.
Let's talk about Kurds.
In 16th century Kurdistan was split between Iran and Ottoman Empire (Turkey). Most of it was under Turkish rule. After collaps of Ottoman Empire and forming of Turkey, Kemal Attaturk dissolved limited autonomy that Kurds enjoyed in Ottoman Empire. Province of Kurdistan (as part of Ottoman E.) no longer existed. So much for loss of autonomy.
The incorporation into Turkey of the Kurdish-inhabited regions of eastern Anatolia was opposed by many Kurds, and has resulted in a long-running separatist conflict in which thousands of lives have been lost. The region saw several major Kurdish rebellions including the Koçkiri Rebellion of 1920, the Sheikh Said Rebellion in 1924, the Republic of Ararat in 1927, and the Dersim Rebellion in 1937. These were forcefully put down by the Turkish authorities and the region was declared a closed military area from which foreigners were banned between 1925 and 1965.
In early 80's Kurdish rebellion starts in Turkey lead by PKK.
KURDS DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE. There was no schools in Kurdish, no newspapers, well known is the case of the Kurd who ended up in jail for writting invitations for his wedding in Kurdish language in 2002.
In fact, Turkey did not even recognize existance of Kurds in Turkey. Speaking of Kurds (that do not exist in Turkey officially) would send you to jail.
I can't remember that Albanina language was banned in Serbia (Kosovo). Perhaps there were no TV stations, radio stations, newspapers? Perhaps somobody denied existance of Albanians there?

In 1983, the Kurdish provinces were placed under martial law in response to the activities of the militant separarist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). An extremely violent guerrilla war took place through the rest of the 1980s and into the 1990s, in which much of the countryside was evacuated, thousands of Kurdish-populated villages were destroyed and numerous extrajudicial summary executions were carried out by both sides. According to Amnesty International Turkish government was to blame for most of those.
More than 37,000 people were killed in the violence and hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homes.
To this day Kurds remain divided (between Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria), and often persecuted (like under Saddam Hussein).
From a political standpoint, Iraqi Kurdistan is the only region which has gained official recognition internationally as an autonomous federal entity.
What do you think that Kurds deserve, Miri?

Oh, yeah, I hope no one is hoping that the Albanians won't declare independence and the West won't recognize it just because Abkhazia is making threats.

If Abkahzia was treated by Georgia the SAME way Kosovo was treated by Serbia, then they could talk about double standards.

But as far as I know, there was no NATO wars and UNMIKs and what nots in Abkhazia.

It is obvious that Russia is behind this statement from the Abkhazian Government. Would it really be a bad thing if these breakaway countries became democratic independent states like Kosovo. Better satifaction running themselves than disatisfaction being parts of states the majority of their populations (the breakaway countries) have no wish to belong. The end of the day the majority of the population of Kosovo doesn't wish to be part of Serbia, shouldn't their wishers be respected.

With Northern Ireland it's a different posisition, the majority of the population their wish to be part of the UK, so we have to respect their wishes, though I personnally wish it wasn't the case as they are a big expense to the British tax payer and most people in mainland Britain would be pleased to lose Northern Ireland

Niall O'Doherty

while you are there, let me suggest you carry on with Sandjak, Vojvodina, Preshevo, Bujanovc, Medvegja and Vojvodina ...
I cant wait for fun to begin.
Nial, lets take one by one and deal with them. If they manage to have support for that than they will be independent, I have nothing against. Problems in these places existed, it is not as if Kosova issue started the problems in these places. Also if they are willing to go through what K-Albanians have gone through than let it be, nut I doubt it. K-Albanians had no choice but to defend their lifes and homes for the aggressor.

I wonder if Serbia during '80 and '90 had in mind that democratic countries are able to solve their open questions without war(s), killings, burnings, ethnic cleanings...?!?!?! and how democratic pretend to be the country/nation which doesn't feel responsible for the crimes done on its behalf???
Good luck Kosovo on your own way, you can not wait until all open issues in the world will be solved... It wouldn't be realistic, isn't it?!?!?!

"My too sense", have you heard any mexican in US wanting independence from US, or you just felt like throwing any example that came to your mind for the sake of Pete. Why don't you leave examples to your politicians, Hong Kong, Aland islands, they are doing a "good job" with that.

I wonder how much money Serbia paid for this speech of this random leader.

Serbia paid for this guys speech? You are silly.
How funny the albanians here
are killing and ethnically cleansing Serbs in Kosobo-Metohija to this day and yet Serbia is the aggresor.Any rational person knows and has known that 1.albanians are the biggest threat to Serbian security and 2.No matter how you spin it stealing Kosovo from Serbia is illegal and immoral and 3.Serbia will not stand for it sure NATO is blocking Serbia from protecting her citizens now but in time things will change and we Serbs know where Serbian property once stood and that cannot be changed all the criminals in Kosovo will eventually be taken care of and those gulity of killing Serbs will be punished if not in this world then in the next.Serbia has admitted and said sorry for any crimes commited by Serbs albanians seem to be unable to do so.They just keep deflecting the blame it is time to be responsible there are no Serb security forces to blame anymore.The failure in Kosovo is yours alone.

"Here comes the domino effect - Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Tatarstan, Pays Basques, Northern Ireland, Kurdistan, Tibet, Palestine, Darfur, southern Sudan, Iraq, Irian Jaya, Tamils,etc"

Sounds pretty good to me. I don't see any one of those places not deserving independence. Just a pity Niall the Irish man is so much against Northern Ireland splitting with "UK" and rejoining Ireland.

All the good luck to Abkhazia in their quest. We care for Abkhazia as much as Abkhazia cares for Kosova. However we each have our own business to run. Abkhazia (and any other place that has been offered here with such generosity, likely to follow Kosova's independence) can follow Kosova's example, which means trigger a 100 year old conflict, have an autonomy first, then let that autonomy annulled by central government, let themselves being chased down like dogs by Georgia's forces, let themselves be murdered on mass. Then after Nato intervention, wait 8 years, then 2 more extra years negotiating and looking for a "compromise" and then ask for independence.

I bet the will change their mind when the think about all this, or they will die from boredom.

Ok Abk.., go right ahead.

-Too sense
Don't you mean 10-15% of GDP comes from aid? Nonetheless it is all Kosovars. Every household sends a son to work somewhere and they send money...Kosovars are hard workers.

"At the same time, he reiterated that the Kosovo prime minister was openly threatening to declare independence after December 10.

"That would lead to serious consequences," Shamba warned. "

Is it just me feeling this, or is Abkhazia a little bit over their head with these threats to global powers. Were they smart they would be courting the West not threatening it, who will recognize them, Serbia and Russia?

Hey Niall, in all the facts, it looks like it's more convenient for Serbia to follow Irish example. Serbia should give up Kosova, where 95% of population doesn't want to do anything with it, in the name of peace and prosperity for the whole region.

Hard workers, eh? Why is there 70% unemployment? Why is Kosovo the drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? How come albanians can't even run a power plant properly despite billions in aid from the Americans?
(Dragan, 20 November 2007 23:06)

BC your country serbia creates complications which we can't privatize companies. It is your country (serbia) that tells Kosovar - Serbs not to participate in elections, and funds terrorist structures in Northern part of Mitrovica.

B92 you claim that comments do not reflect B92's views but names, locations, and historical facts should be looked over. I can understand that you can't control what someone thinks, which is okay, but facts here are skewed and used to dehumanize other members. Now tell me how this is not an insult to all Albanians (non-Kosovars), "drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? (Referring to Kosova)"

So what does Albanians committing non-independence, non-war related crimes in Europe have to do with Abkhazia's threats?

Do you know how many crimes, from how many numerous nationalities, are committed in the world on a daily basis?

I am sure every second, an EU citizen commits some kind of crime. Do you want a link for each instance?

Will that help anyone in trying to solve the independence question?

Selectively blaming Albanians for drug and trafficking crimes in Europe, when we're in fact talking about Kosovo's independence...is nothing more than a desperate argument that hopelessly tries to strengthen an argument through PROPAGANDA.

For that kind of strategy to work, you will need to find a time machine, and use it to transport you in a different era, when people were way more naive and easily swayed!

KS

Actually about 50% comes from foreign aid and money sent back from those sons who work abroad.

Let me guess Funcakes K-Albanians are the extra special people in the world. Sorry to bust your but their not. They are just as guilty for the war in 99.

Our Government is giving our country away to Illegal imigrants. Let's take care of ourselves first. Our Senators & Congressmen are not listening to the people. The Legal Citizens of the U.S. How do we protect our borders when we cannot even protect Iraq's? Our Military is spread so thin, we can't take care of our own country. We have battles in Iraq. We are losing a War in the United States of America. We jail American Citizens for crimes commited here. Our Representatives are traiders to our country. They are selling us out! They are breaking our laws to help illegal immigrants. I am fed up with it all! Why do we have any laws? They do not mean much, especially when broken by our elected officals. President Bush, INCLUDED. Return of Military from Foreign Countries. Let's protect our borders. We are being invaded. We loan money to Syria, etc., and forgive their loans, to create good will. Terrorists are a global worry, yet we support them. When are we going to take care of outselves?

Niall O'Doherty

while you are there, let me suggest you carry on with Sandjak, Vojvodina, Preshevo, Bujanovc, Medvegja and Vojvodina ...
I cant wait for fun to begin.
Nial, lets take one by one and deal with them. If they manage to have support for that than they will be independent, I have nothing against. Problems in these places existed, it is not as if Kosova issue started the problems in these places. Also if they are willing to go through what K-Albanians have gone through than let it be, nut I doubt it. K-Albanians had no choice but to defend their lifes and homes for the aggressor.

Oh, yeah, I hope no one is hoping that the Albanians won't declare independence and the West won't recognize it just because Abkhazia is making threats.

If Abkahzia was treated by Georgia the SAME way Kosovo was treated by Serbia, then they could talk about double standards.

But as far as I know, there was no NATO wars and UNMIKs and what nots in Abkhazia.

I wonder if Serbia during '80 and '90 had in mind that democratic countries are able to solve their open questions without war(s), killings, burnings, ethnic cleanings...?!?!?! and how democratic pretend to be the country/nation which doesn't feel responsible for the crimes done on its behalf???
Good luck Kosovo on your own way, you can not wait until all open issues in the world will be solved... It wouldn't be realistic, isn't it?!?!?!

It is obvious that Russia is behind this statement from the Abkhazian Government. Would it really be a bad thing if these breakaway countries became democratic independent states like Kosovo. Better satifaction running themselves than disatisfaction being parts of states the majority of their populations (the breakaway countries) have no wish to belong. The end of the day the majority of the population of Kosovo doesn't wish to be part of Serbia, shouldn't their wishers be respected.

With Northern Ireland it's a different posisition, the majority of the population their wish to be part of the UK, so we have to respect their wishes, though I personnally wish it wasn't the case as they are a big expense to the British tax payer and most people in mainland Britain would be pleased to lose Northern Ireland

Hey Niall, in all the facts, it looks like it's more convenient for Serbia to follow Irish example. Serbia should give up Kosova, where 95% of population doesn't want to do anything with it, in the name of peace and prosperity for the whole region.

Hard workers, eh? Why is there 70% unemployment? Why is Kosovo the drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? How come albanians can't even run a power plant properly despite billions in aid from the Americans?
(Dragan, 20 November 2007 23:06)

BC your country serbia creates complications which we can't privatize companies. It is your country (serbia) that tells Kosovar - Serbs not to participate in elections, and funds terrorist structures in Northern part of Mitrovica.

B92 you claim that comments do not reflect B92's views but names, locations, and historical facts should be looked over. I can understand that you can't control what someone thinks, which is okay, but facts here are skewed and used to dehumanize other members. Now tell me how this is not an insult to all Albanians (non-Kosovars), "drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? (Referring to Kosova)"

All the good luck to Abkhazia in their quest. We care for Abkhazia as much as Abkhazia cares for Kosova. However we each have our own business to run. Abkhazia (and any other place that has been offered here with such generosity, likely to follow Kosova's independence) can follow Kosova's example, which means trigger a 100 year old conflict, have an autonomy first, then let that autonomy annulled by central government, let themselves being chased down like dogs by Georgia's forces, let themselves be murdered on mass. Then after Nato intervention, wait 8 years, then 2 more extra years negotiating and looking for a "compromise" and then ask for independence.

I bet the will change their mind when the think about all this, or they will die from boredom.

"My too sense", have you heard any mexican in US wanting independence from US, or you just felt like throwing any example that came to your mind for the sake of Pete. Why don't you leave examples to your politicians, Hong Kong, Aland islands, they are doing a "good job" with that.

Ok Abk.., go right ahead.

-Too sense
Don't you mean 10-15% of GDP comes from aid? Nonetheless it is all Kosovars. Every household sends a son to work somewhere and they send money...Kosovars are hard workers.

"Here comes the domino effect - Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Tatarstan, Pays Basques, Northern Ireland, Kurdistan, Tibet, Palestine, Darfur, southern Sudan, Iraq, Irian Jaya, Tamils,etc"

Sounds pretty good to me. I don't see any one of those places not deserving independence. Just a pity Niall the Irish man is so much against Northern Ireland splitting with "UK" and rejoining Ireland.

"At the same time, he reiterated that the Kosovo prime minister was openly threatening to declare independence after December 10.

"That would lead to serious consequences," Shamba warned. "

Is it just me feeling this, or is Abkhazia a little bit over their head with these threats to global powers. Were they smart they would be courting the West not threatening it, who will recognize them, Serbia and Russia?

Here comes the domino effect - Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechnya, Tatarstan, Pays Basques, Northern Ireland, Kurdistan, Tibet, Palestine, Darfur, southern Sudan, Iraq, Irian Jaya, Tamils,etc....

Now the fun begins. I wonder did Dubya have this in mind in his speech in Tirana last June. Not likely

So what does Albanians committing non-independence, non-war related crimes in Europe have to do with Abkhazia's threats?

Do you know how many crimes, from how many numerous nationalities, are committed in the world on a daily basis?

I am sure every second, an EU citizen commits some kind of crime. Do you want a link for each instance?

Will that help anyone in trying to solve the independence question?

Selectively blaming Albanians for drug and trafficking crimes in Europe, when we're in fact talking about Kosovo's independence...is nothing more than a desperate argument that hopelessly tries to strengthen an argument through PROPAGANDA.

For that kind of strategy to work, you will need to find a time machine, and use it to transport you in a different era, when people were way more naive and easily swayed!

Bravo Mr. Shamba! Simlarly, it is high time for Milorad Dodik to announce a referendum on independence in Republika Srpska in case Americans go ahead with their illegal and immoral greater albania plan. No more double standards. This American policy of 'some nations being more equal than others' is unjust and and racist. People like Nicholas Burns at the State Department clearly have no shame.

Niall,

what about the 30%+ ethnic Russians in the two EU countries of Estonia and Latvia - surely if the EU countries wish to see an illegal process enforced upon Serbia they need to be only too aware of all the consequences within EU borders not just the obvious ones such as Spain etc...

I wonder if Solana had this in mind too?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.......

No one is saying ALL Albanians, only that they are committing crimes in high degree in EU countries and Britain.

Even today, Italy arrests an Albanian gang for distributing drugs throughout Italy, and intercepted a motorboat of 17 Kosovars trying to enter Italy illegally:

http://www.makfax.com.mk/look/novina/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=2&NrArticle=91217&NrIssue=509&NrSection=20

"Italian authorities bust Albanian drug smugglers and catch illegal immigrants"

Then there are the Albanian gangs making money off of exploitation of women:

A barbaric trade in human misery right on our doorsteps

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features/A-barbaric-trade-in-human.3490580.jp

“Only last week an Albanian and a Lithuanian were among four people arrested in Leeds on suspicion of human trafficking within the UK and controlling prostitution.”

…

"Some are UK pimps, while others have international rings like Triad gangs and Vietnamese gangs and there was an Albanian crime gang we took out."

Now tell me how this is not an insult to all Albanians (non-Kosovars), "drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? (Referring to Kosova)"
(KS,

Because it is true. Everyone in this Earth know it exept some posters overhere. That's why it is published. Simple as that

Princip,

of course I havent forgottn about the Estonia and Latvia situation. (My g/f is an ethnic Russian from Latvia and from what she tells me life for Russians is full of discrimination)

Anyway This potential Gordian Knot is not just confined to the Baltic states. How about those ethnic Hungarians & Slovaks scattered all over the former Austro-Hungarian lands, Serbia included. The whole of Europe could unravel. These are not idle threats. In these situations one must never rule out the worst case scenario.

'Just a pity Niall the Irish man is so much against Northern Ireland splitting with "UK" and rejoining Ireland.
(DimTuc, 20 November 2007 15:23)'

as an Irish Republican Socialist my deepest desire is for the full unification of Ireland under a 32 county secular socialist umbrella. However I have to face reality. In Northern Ireland majority of its citizens (approx 55%) wish to remain in the UK and under international law I believe that the UK's right to its territorial sovereignty is sacrosant as with Serbia's. Why should one country's right to protect its own territorial integrity be recognized while anothers (Serbia) is not. Besides I voted for the Good Friday Agreement in supporting a compromise for peace and development within the conext of international law and within the framework of an impartial and just peace process. So what if we had to give up our territorial aspirations. I think the K-Albanians need to take a look at the Irish model and use it.

Serbia simply will not give up Kosovo which leads only 1 logical course of action, talks and compromise. We did it with our Protestant neighbours, despite all the macho and belicose military talk, so why cannot you lot just sit up and face reality. There is no outlet in international law for this illegal landgrab. The K-Albanians are on very flimsy legal ground and threading a very dangerous path by insisting on independence.

This excellent, I am so amused.

Olf,

Don't forget that Serbs make vast majority in Vojvodina. I know that this fact is painful for you but is just the fact. Sandzak is very divided in two fractions and that pro Serb fraction + Serbs living in there still make majority, so Sandzak is going nowhere,sorry again to disappoint you with these facts. And for the Presevo Valley people if they like they may join you in Kosovo any time, we don't care but you are not taking anything with you exept the cash from the sold houses. Yet in Medvedja Serbs make majority and Presevo Valley had never had any special status so it stay as a part of Serbia. The reason that you make maojority wont work anymore, believe me. Serbs have green light from NATO to keep order in Presevo Valley. So , continue with nice dreams

Olf,

I'm curious. . .why didn't you include the Mexicans in regions of California or Texas? Is it not to offend the Americans that are supporting your land grab?

Anyways. . .just like the Albanians in Kosovo, the Hungarians in Vojvodina, the Slavic-Moslems in Sandak and the Albanians in the Presevo Valley are ALL minorities in Serbia! Moreover, in the case of the Sandak Moslems, the Hungarians in Vojvodina and the Presevo Valley Albanians, there was no rebellion that sparked a war or any kind of reprisals.

Moreover, how would you envision that these 'proposed states' function? They're too small and economically insufficient to operate effectively.

Let me ask the Albanian posters something. You all seem so gung-ho on Kosmet's independence, right? Are you going to feed your kids independence, heat your homes with independence, fill your car with independence. . .is independence going to get you that great job?

Kosovo has an unemployment rate of over 60%, 65% of its GDP comes from foreign aid or remittances (diaspora sending money home) and 70% of your foreign trade is with Serbia. . .doesn't this worry anyone?

Anyone?

Funcakes

The reason there was no NATO intervention is because NATO would not dare to invade Russia's sphere of influence in exactly the same way Russia would not dare to invade NATO's sphere of influence. Why do you think NATO did nothing in Chechnya or Dagestan? It is all about geopolitical positioning.

"If Abkahzia was treated by Georgia the SAME way Kosovo was treated by Serbia, then they could talk about double standards. "

20 000 Georgians and 10 000 Abkhazians were killed in the war, 300 000 people were displaced, the economy was destroyed, if you did not know about the war then I suggest you Google Georgian-Abkhazian Conflict and then you will be able to make a better reply.

miri

Abkhazia has wanted independence since Stalin randomly butted Abkjazia, Ossetia and Adjarta to Georgia in the 30's, their struggle began in 1989. Abkhazians lost 10 000 out of 70 000 of its population, that's 15%!!!

I also suggest you read a little into what happened.

Every household sends a son to work somewhere and they send money...Kosovars are hard workers.
(KS, 20 November 2007 20:11)

Hard workers, eh? Why is there 70% unemployment? Why is Kosovo the drug trafficking and human trafficking capital of Europe? How come albanians can't even run a power plant properly despite billions in aid from the Americans?

Were they smart they would be courting the West not threatening it, who will recognize them, Serbia and Russia?
Adrian Gashi,

For your information everybody cannot be the same in this world not many nations can court to the West as you do. Special character is needed for that.Some people have pride. And yes Russia will recognise them along with Serbia. Russia can take care of them better than Georgia if needed. But you Albanians have no one to take care of you after USA and EU turn thier heads from you.

Here you go Miri, I'm showing more than one that wants to seperate from the USA Read the comments of the Americans on the bottom too and see what they want to do with them.

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=1244

KS

Actually about 50% comes from foreign aid and money sent back from those sons who work abroad.

Miri!
Let me respond to your comment No. 8.
Let's talk about Kurds.
In 16th century Kurdistan was split between Iran and Ottoman Empire (Turkey). Most of it was under Turkish rule. After collaps of Ottoman Empire and forming of Turkey, Kemal Attaturk dissolved limited autonomy that Kurds enjoyed in Ottoman Empire. Province of Kurdistan (as part of Ottoman E.) no longer existed. So much for loss of autonomy.
The incorporation into Turkey of the Kurdish-inhabited regions of eastern Anatolia was opposed by many Kurds, and has resulted in a long-running separatist conflict in which thousands of lives have been lost. The region saw several major Kurdish rebellions including the Koçkiri Rebellion of 1920, the Sheikh Said Rebellion in 1924, the Republic of Ararat in 1927, and the Dersim Rebellion in 1937. These were forcefully put down by the Turkish authorities and the region was declared a closed military area from which foreigners were banned between 1925 and 1965.
In early 80's Kurdish rebellion starts in Turkey lead by PKK.
KURDS DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE. There was no schools in Kurdish, no newspapers, well known is the case of the Kurd who ended up in jail for writting invitations for his wedding in Kurdish language in 2002.
In fact, Turkey did not even recognize existance of Kurds in Turkey. Speaking of Kurds (that do not exist in Turkey officially) would send you to jail.
I can't remember that Albanina language was banned in Serbia (Kosovo). Perhaps there were no TV stations, radio stations, newspapers? Perhaps somobody denied existance of Albanians there?

In 1983, the Kurdish provinces were placed under martial law in response to the activities of the militant separarist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK). An extremely violent guerrilla war took place through the rest of the 1980s and into the 1990s, in which much of the countryside was evacuated, thousands of Kurdish-populated villages were destroyed and numerous extrajudicial summary executions were carried out by both sides. According to Amnesty International Turkish government was to blame for most of those.
More than 37,000 people were killed in the violence and hundreds of thousands more were forced to leave their homes.
To this day Kurds remain divided (between Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria), and often persecuted (like under Saddam Hussein).
From a political standpoint, Iraqi Kurdistan is the only region which has gained official recognition internationally as an autonomous federal entity.
What do you think that Kurds deserve, Miri?

I wonder how much money Serbia paid for this speech of this random leader.

Serbia paid for this guys speech? You are silly.
How funny the albanians here
are killing and ethnically cleansing Serbs in Kosobo-Metohija to this day and yet Serbia is the aggresor.Any rational person knows and has known that 1.albanians are the biggest threat to Serbian security and 2.No matter how you spin it stealing Kosovo from Serbia is illegal and immoral and 3.Serbia will not stand for it sure NATO is blocking Serbia from protecting her citizens now but in time things will change and we Serbs know where Serbian property once stood and that cannot be changed all the criminals in Kosovo will eventually be taken care of and those gulity of killing Serbs will be punished if not in this world then in the next.Serbia has admitted and said sorry for any crimes commited by Serbs albanians seem to be unable to do so.They just keep deflecting the blame it is time to be responsible there are no Serb security forces to blame anymore.The failure in Kosovo is yours alone.

Let me guess Funcakes K-Albanians are the extra special people in the world. Sorry to bust your but their not. They are just as guilty for the war in 99.

Our Government is giving our country away to Illegal imigrants. Let's take care of ourselves first. Our Senators & Congressmen are not listening to the people. The Legal Citizens of the U.S. How do we protect our borders when we cannot even protect Iraq's? Our Military is spread so thin, we can't take care of our own country. We have battles in Iraq. We are losing a War in the United States of America. We jail American Citizens for crimes commited here. Our Representatives are traiders to our country. They are selling us out! They are breaking our laws to help illegal immigrants. I am fed up with it all! Why do we have any laws? They do not mean much, especially when broken by our elected officals. President Bush, INCLUDED. Return of Military from Foreign Countries. Let's protect our borders. We are being invaded. We loan money to Syria, etc., and forgive their loans, to create good will. Terrorists are a global worry, yet we support them. When are we going to take care of outselves?