"Iowe said >> ""Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force."
That is exactly what the Germans said just before they recognized Croatia in 1999.
How history keeps repeating itself or threatens to repeat itself, can we be so foolish not to see this or do anything to prevent it again? I certainly hope to God this is not so, but knowing the Balkans as well as I do I have to conclude, that there will be violence from which no one wins and everyone loses. Ceku knows this too, that is why he did not want any part of being a leader when this happens.
(Canadian, 19. November 2007 05:45) "
Canadian
I did NOT write the above. Someone else did and I disagreed with him/her. Just wanted to set the record straight. Thank you.
Iowe said >> ""Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force."
That is exactly what the Germans said just before they recognized Croatia in 1999.
How history keeps repeating itself or threatens to repeat itself, can we be so foolish not to see this or do anything to prevent it again? I certainly hope to God this is not so, but knowing the Balkans as well as I do I have to conclude, that there will be violence from which no one wins and everyone loses. Ceku knows this too, that is why he did not want any part of being a leader when this happens.
Prove it by genetic connections.. Albanians have already by lingquistics and Genetics, you have yet to prove any Serb is connected to the original people of this land. Although the geneticists have connected Serbs to Southern Russian tribes.
Take Kosovo we'll take Srpska, Croatia will take W.Herzegovina, Sandzak will want to unite with Bosna, Northern Montenegro will want to unite with Serbia, etc....get it. America is creating a potential 'big mess' not to mention what will happen in other places of the world. America has been advised by some countries not to do it, as she was advised for Iraq and look what happened. Sooner or later the states will learn their lesson that they're actually 'bad cop' in this world.
Of course the team of Kosova must change stance, even though the Ahtisaari Plan is still the best solution to the table.
1. No Ahtisaari Plan which gives to Serbian minority more rights than they deserve based on their number and consideration.
2. Full Independence and Souvereignity for Kosova.
3. Kosova unites with Albania.
4. Presevo Valley gets Vojvodina status.
5. Lawsuit against Serbia for crimes and damages commited in Kosova.
6. Lawsuit against a detailed list of Serbian citizens who participated in the masacres against Kosova people.
7. Lawsuit for properties belonging to Kosova after separation from Yugoslavia.
8. Lawsuit against Serbian collaborators and supporters during the war in Kosova and also during immoral support during negotiations, including Russian government and several Russian politicians.
===== How about that as a start?======
P.S: Some cases take even 100 years, but we Albanians have a Lot of Time.
Where is this 'overwhelming body of evidence' which 'refutes Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis'? Is it in the treaty on 'The explusion of Albanians' by Vasa Cubrilovic, or other chauvenistic churnings of the Serbian Academy of Sciences?
The denial of Albanian Illyrian lineage is the foundation of the Serbian policy towards the Albanians and Kosova. It is the pseudo-scientific justification for the policy against Albanians of the 1990s. It constitutes the core of the Serbian foundamental beliefs to degrade the history of a people in an effort to bring them down from the peadestal of historical achievements.
Albanians do not need a recognition of their historical lineage from Serbs. By stating their ancenstal roots they do not claim any foreign lands, they claim their right to live in peace, free from fear of oppression and free from ethnic apartheid.
The Serbian claim to Kosova is based on a biased interpretation of historical facts from the fourteenth century in the light of the chauvenistic policies of nation-state buildings of the nineteenth century. In late 1990s the Serbian leaders' concept on Kosova had not moved much beyond this point and they had not realised that the world had moved on. This meant they could not use nineteenth century methods to deal with the Albanians. By the time Milosevic found out it was too late.
This is the reason why the world turned against Serbia and freed the Kosova Albanians from your yoke. For every Serbian claim against Albanian-Illyrian ancestry, there are ten arguments in favour. Every people write their own history, the trick is to do it not to the detriment of the others, otherwise you only fool yourself.
it is really funny, to see Albanians STILL posting such nonsense about their illyrian-descent...
when will you realize that you stand alone with that illusion?
(Jovan, 18. November 2007 18:17)
because we are the only illyrian people, that's why we are the only saying this
and whatever serbs can say, they cannot change our history, it's written with our blood. take it from pre-roman times, till today, at least we didnt came in the balkans, like serbs.Check your history, and check ours. we were here.
and we are not the same people, illyrian like you say, because you speak slavic language. you can change, but not langauge, explain this??
and if you assimilated, then you should like albanians that didnt, but as i said we are not the same.
"John Wilkes is the world’s foremost authority in Illyrian studies. In fact, his 1992 book has not been refuted in over 15 years. No other scholar has published a critical work of Wilkes’ monumental study, based on skeletal evidence and archaeological work done in Albania and ex-Yugoslavia in the late 1980s. Wilkes has the last word. Lubonja and Vehbiu inform us that Albanian scholarship under Hoxha even postulated Slavic origins for the Albanians as early as the 1950s, while scholarship was still free in Albania. Bulgarian scholar Selishev’s maps confirm a large Slav-speaking presnce showing 1/3 of Albanian toponyms to be Slavic and to which Coon attributes to Serbs a once large Serb population in Albania. A map of Europe in 814 AD, confirms it by showing Serbs living from Dalmatia & BiH throughout all of interior Albania, Epirus and the Peloponnese (while Bulgarians were situated north of the Danube).
After explaining a version of the Caucasian theory, Malcolm stated bluntly that Albanian-Illyrian continuity was exclusively based in linguistics. Wilkes then discusses the impossibility of Illyrian-Albanian ethnic & linguistic unity: first by providing skeletal evidence showing that modern Albanians and Illyrians were physically two different peoples; second: by discussing the unbridgeable centum/satem linguistic gap that nullifies the possibility of the continuity between Albanian and Illyrian languages. I pointed out that many Illyrian names have cognates and meaning in Serbian, as well as Albanian. Wilkes, as well as Malcolm (inadvertently) and the two genetic studies have all showed the weakness and inconsistent results that come with using linguistics to identify descent.
An overwhelming body of fairly objective evidence has refuted the Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis and no credible evidence at all in its favor remains. All that does actually remain is to provide a theory of Shqipetar ethnogenesis that incorporates (not just linguistics with all its erroneous conclusions) but more insightful disciplines. In fact any theory that would incorporate several disciplines will automatically be more credible than the Albanian-Illyrian myth. Toponymic data, anthropometrical data and other information never considered before will be valuable contributions to a more realistic theory."
it is really funny, to see Albanians STILL posting such nonsense about their illyrian-descent...
when will you realize that you stand alone with that illusion?
I have said this before, I will say it again, Albanians are not the only descendants of Illyrians. The Balkans were inhabited originally by Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians, however due to this phenomenon known as human migration, various other tribes have moved through the area and settled among or assimilated the local tribes, such as the Bulgars, Romans, Ottomans and Slavs. Serbs are essentially Slavicized Illyrians, Albanians were not Slavicized due to living in extremely inaccessible conditions in the mountains (The term "Albania" comes from the Latin word meaning "land of the mountains" anyway.).
Fact of the matter is, Serbs and Albanians are not so distant when it comes to origin, in fact they are very close, only thing that divides them is culture, but to say that Albanians are Illyrian and Serbs are not is just nonsensical. Typical nationalist propaganda that should have no place in Europe today, not real history.
@ Jovan
You're completely wrong mate ....go and read some history. Kosova was known as Dardania, part of Illyrian (Albanian) tribes. Thus, Kosova can't be part of Serbia cos history shows that Serbia was never part of Ballkan or Illyria
@ Jovan
You're completely wrong mate ....go and read some history. Kosova was known as Dardania, part of Illyrian (Albanian) tribes. Thus, Kosova can't be part of Serbia cos history shows that Serbia was never part of Ballkan or Illyria
(Bela,
This is completely insane. Serbia was never part of Balkan, nice to know and would like to know what is the Peninsula that Serbs live. And once again in lack of arguments they call on Illyria time. In that case Italians would have to take over the entire Europe as successors of Roman Empire (presuming that they represent ancient Rome). But one thing seem Albanians forget to say and that is extinction of ancient people. The advanced DNA would prove that. However, whether you were Illyrians or just Albanians that does not give you any right to claim something (in this case piece of land)as yours when international law does not say so, especially history does not say so. Histiry and law are on Serbian side when it comes to Kosovo.
lazer, as far as I see it, that "greater Serbia"-myth was never a realistic option..and the only ones who where talking about it, were those who wanted to harm Serbia... furthermore, in regard to the Kosovo-question ...there is nothing that could be named with greater Serbia...since, Kosovo IS Serbia... it is and always was, ...so mentioning the propaganda-phrase of the "greater serbian movement" is just nonsense!
you should know that.
and, if all reasonable means fail, Serbia is authorized to defend it´s citizens in Kosovo, so, it would more be like YOU are opening the door for Serbia.
It is the right of everyone not to vote. The voting should be a personal choice. What has happened in Kosova was that the polling stations could not open in the north. Organisers had to improvise with vans as mobile polling stations because the school heads could not let anyone use the schools for voting. This atmosphere is not conductive for proper participations of those who did want to vote.
"Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force.
This is not 1990's when your former president launched wars everytime he wanted.
The Greater Serbia dream is only a dream.
(lazer, 18. November 2007 14:08)"
Any unilateral declaration of independence would automatically mean de facto partition ... and to paraphrase you, there is nothing Pristina can do about it ..... You saw the results of the poll .... the Serbs overwhelmingly boycotted it .... maybe they listend to Belgrade, but the undeniable point is that you can't force someone to vote if they don't want to .... and they clearly didn't want to ..... translated this means a crystal clear rejection of independence by the K-Serbs.
"It could be that the secret is that after December 10 Priština's maximalist demands will not be met, and that it light of such development Kosovo Albanians may revise their position," Jeremić said
You are right Mr. Jeremic, you know its coming and your Government unfortunately has not come with any good solution as promised, thanks to the radical part of your government.
Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force.
This is not 1990's when your former president launched wars everytime he wanted.
The Greater Serbia dream is only a dream.
The best solution is to have friendly relations with Kosova/o, if not this government, it'll be another one down the road.
Get rid of Koshtunica, elect pro-western leaders, you have them, they are the best bet for the future of your children.
"It could be that the secret is that after December 10 Priština's maximalist demands will not be met, and that it light of such development Kosovo Albanians may revise their position," Jeremić said
You are right Mr. Jeremic, you know its coming and your Government unfortunately has not come with any good solution as promised, thanks to the radical part of your government.
Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force.
This is not 1990's when your former president launched wars everytime he wanted.
The Greater Serbia dream is only a dream.
The best solution is to have friendly relations with Kosova/o, if not this government, it'll be another one down the road.
Get rid of Koshtunica, elect pro-western leaders, you have them, they are the best bet for the future of your children.
"John Wilkes is the world’s foremost authority in Illyrian studies. In fact, his 1992 book has not been refuted in over 15 years. No other scholar has published a critical work of Wilkes’ monumental study, based on skeletal evidence and archaeological work done in Albania and ex-Yugoslavia in the late 1980s. Wilkes has the last word. Lubonja and Vehbiu inform us that Albanian scholarship under Hoxha even postulated Slavic origins for the Albanians as early as the 1950s, while scholarship was still free in Albania. Bulgarian scholar Selishev’s maps confirm a large Slav-speaking presnce showing 1/3 of Albanian toponyms to be Slavic and to which Coon attributes to Serbs a once large Serb population in Albania. A map of Europe in 814 AD, confirms it by showing Serbs living from Dalmatia & BiH throughout all of interior Albania, Epirus and the Peloponnese (while Bulgarians were situated north of the Danube).
After explaining a version of the Caucasian theory, Malcolm stated bluntly that Albanian-Illyrian continuity was exclusively based in linguistics. Wilkes then discusses the impossibility of Illyrian-Albanian ethnic & linguistic unity: first by providing skeletal evidence showing that modern Albanians and Illyrians were physically two different peoples; second: by discussing the unbridgeable centum/satem linguistic gap that nullifies the possibility of the continuity between Albanian and Illyrian languages. I pointed out that many Illyrian names have cognates and meaning in Serbian, as well as Albanian. Wilkes, as well as Malcolm (inadvertently) and the two genetic studies have all showed the weakness and inconsistent results that come with using linguistics to identify descent.
An overwhelming body of fairly objective evidence has refuted the Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis and no credible evidence at all in its favor remains. All that does actually remain is to provide a theory of Shqipetar ethnogenesis that incorporates (not just linguistics with all its erroneous conclusions) but more insightful disciplines. In fact any theory that would incorporate several disciplines will automatically be more credible than the Albanian-Illyrian myth. Toponymic data, anthropometrical data and other information never considered before will be valuable contributions to a more realistic theory."
it is really funny, to see Albanians STILL posting such nonsense about their illyrian-descent...
when will you realize that you stand alone with that illusion?
I have said this before, I will say it again, Albanians are not the only descendants of Illyrians. The Balkans were inhabited originally by Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians, however due to this phenomenon known as human migration, various other tribes have moved through the area and settled among or assimilated the local tribes, such as the Bulgars, Romans, Ottomans and Slavs. Serbs are essentially Slavicized Illyrians, Albanians were not Slavicized due to living in extremely inaccessible conditions in the mountains (The term "Albania" comes from the Latin word meaning "land of the mountains" anyway.).
Fact of the matter is, Serbs and Albanians are not so distant when it comes to origin, in fact they are very close, only thing that divides them is culture, but to say that Albanians are Illyrian and Serbs are not is just nonsensical. Typical nationalist propaganda that should have no place in Europe today, not real history.
"Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force.
This is not 1990's when your former president launched wars everytime he wanted.
The Greater Serbia dream is only a dream.
(lazer, 18. November 2007 14:08)"
Any unilateral declaration of independence would automatically mean de facto partition ... and to paraphrase you, there is nothing Pristina can do about it ..... You saw the results of the poll .... the Serbs overwhelmingly boycotted it .... maybe they listend to Belgrade, but the undeniable point is that you can't force someone to vote if they don't want to .... and they clearly didn't want to ..... translated this means a crystal clear rejection of independence by the K-Serbs.
lazer, as far as I see it, that "greater Serbia"-myth was never a realistic option..and the only ones who where talking about it, were those who wanted to harm Serbia... furthermore, in regard to the Kosovo-question ...there is nothing that could be named with greater Serbia...since, Kosovo IS Serbia... it is and always was, ...so mentioning the propaganda-phrase of the "greater serbian movement" is just nonsense!
you should know that.
and, if all reasonable means fail, Serbia is authorized to defend it´s citizens in Kosovo, so, it would more be like YOU are opening the door for Serbia.
@ Jovan
You're completely wrong mate ....go and read some history. Kosova was known as Dardania, part of Illyrian (Albanian) tribes. Thus, Kosova can't be part of Serbia cos history shows that Serbia was never part of Ballkan or Illyria
@ Jovan
You're completely wrong mate ....go and read some history. Kosova was known as Dardania, part of Illyrian (Albanian) tribes. Thus, Kosova can't be part of Serbia cos history shows that Serbia was never part of Ballkan or Illyria
(Bela,
This is completely insane. Serbia was never part of Balkan, nice to know and would like to know what is the Peninsula that Serbs live. And once again in lack of arguments they call on Illyria time. In that case Italians would have to take over the entire Europe as successors of Roman Empire (presuming that they represent ancient Rome). But one thing seem Albanians forget to say and that is extinction of ancient people. The advanced DNA would prove that. However, whether you were Illyrians or just Albanians that does not give you any right to claim something (in this case piece of land)as yours when international law does not say so, especially history does not say so. Histiry and law are on Serbian side when it comes to Kosovo.
It is the right of everyone not to vote. The voting should be a personal choice. What has happened in Kosova was that the polling stations could not open in the north. Organisers had to improvise with vans as mobile polling stations because the school heads could not let anyone use the schools for voting. This atmosphere is not conductive for proper participations of those who did want to vote.
Take Kosovo we'll take Srpska, Croatia will take W.Herzegovina, Sandzak will want to unite with Bosna, Northern Montenegro will want to unite with Serbia, etc....get it. America is creating a potential 'big mess' not to mention what will happen in other places of the world. America has been advised by some countries not to do it, as she was advised for Iraq and look what happened. Sooner or later the states will learn their lesson that they're actually 'bad cop' in this world.
Where is this 'overwhelming body of evidence' which 'refutes Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis'? Is it in the treaty on 'The explusion of Albanians' by Vasa Cubrilovic, or other chauvenistic churnings of the Serbian Academy of Sciences?
The denial of Albanian Illyrian lineage is the foundation of the Serbian policy towards the Albanians and Kosova. It is the pseudo-scientific justification for the policy against Albanians of the 1990s. It constitutes the core of the Serbian foundamental beliefs to degrade the history of a people in an effort to bring them down from the peadestal of historical achievements.
Albanians do not need a recognition of their historical lineage from Serbs. By stating their ancenstal roots they do not claim any foreign lands, they claim their right to live in peace, free from fear of oppression and free from ethnic apartheid.
The Serbian claim to Kosova is based on a biased interpretation of historical facts from the fourteenth century in the light of the chauvenistic policies of nation-state buildings of the nineteenth century. In late 1990s the Serbian leaders' concept on Kosova had not moved much beyond this point and they had not realised that the world had moved on. This meant they could not use nineteenth century methods to deal with the Albanians. By the time Milosevic found out it was too late.
This is the reason why the world turned against Serbia and freed the Kosova Albanians from your yoke. For every Serbian claim against Albanian-Illyrian ancestry, there are ten arguments in favour. Every people write their own history, the trick is to do it not to the detriment of the others, otherwise you only fool yourself.
Of course the team of Kosova must change stance, even though the Ahtisaari Plan is still the best solution to the table.
1. No Ahtisaari Plan which gives to Serbian minority more rights than they deserve based on their number and consideration.
2. Full Independence and Souvereignity for Kosova.
3. Kosova unites with Albania.
4. Presevo Valley gets Vojvodina status.
5. Lawsuit against Serbia for crimes and damages commited in Kosova.
6. Lawsuit against a detailed list of Serbian citizens who participated in the masacres against Kosova people.
7. Lawsuit for properties belonging to Kosova after separation from Yugoslavia.
8. Lawsuit against Serbian collaborators and supporters during the war in Kosova and also during immoral support during negotiations, including Russian government and several Russian politicians.
===== How about that as a start?======
P.S: Some cases take even 100 years, but we Albanians have a Lot of Time.
Prove it by genetic connections.. Albanians have already by lingquistics and Genetics, you have yet to prove any Serb is connected to the original people of this land. Although the geneticists have connected Serbs to Southern Russian tribes.
Iowe said >> ""Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force."
That is exactly what the Germans said just before they recognized Croatia in 1999.
How history keeps repeating itself or threatens to repeat itself, can we be so foolish not to see this or do anything to prevent it again? I certainly hope to God this is not so, but knowing the Balkans as well as I do I have to conclude, that there will be violence from which no one wins and everyone loses. Ceku knows this too, that is why he did not want any part of being a leader when this happens.
"Iowe said >> ""Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force."
That is exactly what the Germans said just before they recognized Croatia in 1999.
How history keeps repeating itself or threatens to repeat itself, can we be so foolish not to see this or do anything to prevent it again? I certainly hope to God this is not so, but knowing the Balkans as well as I do I have to conclude, that there will be violence from which no one wins and everyone loses. Ceku knows this too, that is why he did not want any part of being a leader when this happens.
(Canadian, 19. November 2007 05:45) "
Canadian
I did NOT write the above. Someone else did and I disagreed with him/her. Just wanted to set the record straight. Thank you.
it is really funny, to see Albanians STILL posting such nonsense about their illyrian-descent...
when will you realize that you stand alone with that illusion?
(Jovan, 18. November 2007 18:17)
because we are the only illyrian people, that's why we are the only saying this
and whatever serbs can say, they cannot change our history, it's written with our blood. take it from pre-roman times, till today, at least we didnt came in the balkans, like serbs.Check your history, and check ours. we were here.
and we are not the same people, illyrian like you say, because you speak slavic language. you can change, but not langauge, explain this??
and if you assimilated, then you should like albanians that didnt, but as i said we are not the same.
"It could be that the secret is that after December 10 Priština's maximalist demands will not be met, and that it light of such development Kosovo Albanians may revise their position," Jeremić said
You are right Mr. Jeremic, you know its coming and your Government unfortunately has not come with any good solution as promised, thanks to the radical part of your government.
Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force.
This is not 1990's when your former president launched wars everytime he wanted.
The Greater Serbia dream is only a dream.
The best solution is to have friendly relations with Kosova/o, if not this government, it'll be another one down the road.
Get rid of Koshtunica, elect pro-western leaders, you have them, they are the best bet for the future of your children.
"Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force.
This is not 1990's when your former president launched wars everytime he wanted.
The Greater Serbia dream is only a dream.
(lazer, 18. November 2007 14:08)"
Any unilateral declaration of independence would automatically mean de facto partition ... and to paraphrase you, there is nothing Pristina can do about it ..... You saw the results of the poll .... the Serbs overwhelmingly boycotted it .... maybe they listend to Belgrade, but the undeniable point is that you can't force someone to vote if they don't want to .... and they clearly didn't want to ..... translated this means a crystal clear rejection of independence by the K-Serbs.
lazer, as far as I see it, that "greater Serbia"-myth was never a realistic option..and the only ones who where talking about it, were those who wanted to harm Serbia... furthermore, in regard to the Kosovo-question ...there is nothing that could be named with greater Serbia...since, Kosovo IS Serbia... it is and always was, ...so mentioning the propaganda-phrase of the "greater serbian movement" is just nonsense!
you should know that.
and, if all reasonable means fail, Serbia is authorized to defend it´s citizens in Kosovo, so, it would more be like YOU are opening the door for Serbia.
@ Jovan
You're completely wrong mate ....go and read some history. Kosova was known as Dardania, part of Illyrian (Albanian) tribes. Thus, Kosova can't be part of Serbia cos history shows that Serbia was never part of Ballkan or Illyria
It is the right of everyone not to vote. The voting should be a personal choice. What has happened in Kosova was that the polling stations could not open in the north. Organisers had to improvise with vans as mobile polling stations because the school heads could not let anyone use the schools for voting. This atmosphere is not conductive for proper participations of those who did want to vote.
@ Jovan
You're completely wrong mate ....go and read some history. Kosova was known as Dardania, part of Illyrian (Albanian) tribes. Thus, Kosova can't be part of Serbia cos history shows that Serbia was never part of Ballkan or Illyria
(Bela,
This is completely insane. Serbia was never part of Balkan, nice to know and would like to know what is the Peninsula that Serbs live. And once again in lack of arguments they call on Illyria time. In that case Italians would have to take over the entire Europe as successors of Roman Empire (presuming that they represent ancient Rome). But one thing seem Albanians forget to say and that is extinction of ancient people. The advanced DNA would prove that. However, whether you were Illyrians or just Albanians that does not give you any right to claim something (in this case piece of land)as yours when international law does not say so, especially history does not say so. Histiry and law are on Serbian side when it comes to Kosovo.
I have said this before, I will say it again, Albanians are not the only descendants of Illyrians. The Balkans were inhabited originally by Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians, however due to this phenomenon known as human migration, various other tribes have moved through the area and settled among or assimilated the local tribes, such as the Bulgars, Romans, Ottomans and Slavs. Serbs are essentially Slavicized Illyrians, Albanians were not Slavicized due to living in extremely inaccessible conditions in the mountains (The term "Albania" comes from the Latin word meaning "land of the mountains" anyway.).
Fact of the matter is, Serbs and Albanians are not so distant when it comes to origin, in fact they are very close, only thing that divides them is culture, but to say that Albanians are Illyrian and Serbs are not is just nonsensical. Typical nationalist propaganda that should have no place in Europe today, not real history.
it is really funny, to see Albanians STILL posting such nonsense about their illyrian-descent...
when will you realize that you stand alone with that illusion?
(Jovan, 18. November 2007 18:17)
because we are the only illyrian people, that's why we are the only saying this
and whatever serbs can say, they cannot change our history, it's written with our blood. take it from pre-roman times, till today, at least we didnt came in the balkans, like serbs.Check your history, and check ours. we were here.
and we are not the same people, illyrian like you say, because you speak slavic language. you can change, but not langauge, explain this??
and if you assimilated, then you should like albanians that didnt, but as i said we are not the same.
Where is this 'overwhelming body of evidence' which 'refutes Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis'? Is it in the treaty on 'The explusion of Albanians' by Vasa Cubrilovic, or other chauvenistic churnings of the Serbian Academy of Sciences?
The denial of Albanian Illyrian lineage is the foundation of the Serbian policy towards the Albanians and Kosova. It is the pseudo-scientific justification for the policy against Albanians of the 1990s. It constitutes the core of the Serbian foundamental beliefs to degrade the history of a people in an effort to bring them down from the peadestal of historical achievements.
Albanians do not need a recognition of their historical lineage from Serbs. By stating their ancenstal roots they do not claim any foreign lands, they claim their right to live in peace, free from fear of oppression and free from ethnic apartheid.
The Serbian claim to Kosova is based on a biased interpretation of historical facts from the fourteenth century in the light of the chauvenistic policies of nation-state buildings of the nineteenth century. In late 1990s the Serbian leaders' concept on Kosova had not moved much beyond this point and they had not realised that the world had moved on. This meant they could not use nineteenth century methods to deal with the Albanians. By the time Milosevic found out it was too late.
This is the reason why the world turned against Serbia and freed the Kosova Albanians from your yoke. For every Serbian claim against Albanian-Illyrian ancestry, there are ten arguments in favour. Every people write their own history, the trick is to do it not to the detriment of the others, otherwise you only fool yourself.
Of course the team of Kosova must change stance, even though the Ahtisaari Plan is still the best solution to the table.
1. No Ahtisaari Plan which gives to Serbian minority more rights than they deserve based on their number and consideration.
2. Full Independence and Souvereignity for Kosova.
3. Kosova unites with Albania.
4. Presevo Valley gets Vojvodina status.
5. Lawsuit against Serbia for crimes and damages commited in Kosova.
6. Lawsuit against a detailed list of Serbian citizens who participated in the masacres against Kosova people.
7. Lawsuit for properties belonging to Kosova after separation from Yugoslavia.
8. Lawsuit against Serbian collaborators and supporters during the war in Kosova and also during immoral support during negotiations, including Russian government and several Russian politicians.
===== How about that as a start?======
P.S: Some cases take even 100 years, but we Albanians have a Lot of Time.
Prove it by genetic connections.. Albanians have already by lingquistics and Genetics, you have yet to prove any Serb is connected to the original people of this land. Although the geneticists have connected Serbs to Southern Russian tribes.
"John Wilkes is the world’s foremost authority in Illyrian studies. In fact, his 1992 book has not been refuted in over 15 years. No other scholar has published a critical work of Wilkes’ monumental study, based on skeletal evidence and archaeological work done in Albania and ex-Yugoslavia in the late 1980s. Wilkes has the last word. Lubonja and Vehbiu inform us that Albanian scholarship under Hoxha even postulated Slavic origins for the Albanians as early as the 1950s, while scholarship was still free in Albania. Bulgarian scholar Selishev’s maps confirm a large Slav-speaking presnce showing 1/3 of Albanian toponyms to be Slavic and to which Coon attributes to Serbs a once large Serb population in Albania. A map of Europe in 814 AD, confirms it by showing Serbs living from Dalmatia & BiH throughout all of interior Albania, Epirus and the Peloponnese (while Bulgarians were situated north of the Danube).
After explaining a version of the Caucasian theory, Malcolm stated bluntly that Albanian-Illyrian continuity was exclusively based in linguistics. Wilkes then discusses the impossibility of Illyrian-Albanian ethnic & linguistic unity: first by providing skeletal evidence showing that modern Albanians and Illyrians were physically two different peoples; second: by discussing the unbridgeable centum/satem linguistic gap that nullifies the possibility of the continuity between Albanian and Illyrian languages. I pointed out that many Illyrian names have cognates and meaning in Serbian, as well as Albanian. Wilkes, as well as Malcolm (inadvertently) and the two genetic studies have all showed the weakness and inconsistent results that come with using linguistics to identify descent.
An overwhelming body of fairly objective evidence has refuted the Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis and no credible evidence at all in its favor remains. All that does actually remain is to provide a theory of Shqipetar ethnogenesis that incorporates (not just linguistics with all its erroneous conclusions) but more insightful disciplines. In fact any theory that would incorporate several disciplines will automatically be more credible than the Albanian-Illyrian myth. Toponymic data, anthropometrical data and other information never considered before will be valuable contributions to a more realistic theory."
it is really funny, to see Albanians STILL posting such nonsense about their illyrian-descent...
when will you realize that you stand alone with that illusion?
Take Kosovo we'll take Srpska, Croatia will take W.Herzegovina, Sandzak will want to unite with Bosna, Northern Montenegro will want to unite with Serbia, etc....get it. America is creating a potential 'big mess' not to mention what will happen in other places of the world. America has been advised by some countries not to do it, as she was advised for Iraq and look what happened. Sooner or later the states will learn their lesson that they're actually 'bad cop' in this world.
Iowe said >> ""Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force."
That is exactly what the Germans said just before they recognized Croatia in 1999.
How history keeps repeating itself or threatens to repeat itself, can we be so foolish not to see this or do anything to prevent it again? I certainly hope to God this is not so, but knowing the Balkans as well as I do I have to conclude, that there will be violence from which no one wins and everyone loses. Ceku knows this too, that is why he did not want any part of being a leader when this happens.
"Iowe said >> ""Declaring Independence by Kosova/o is going to be very sobering for Serbia, since they are not going to be able to do anything, as far as force."
That is exactly what the Germans said just before they recognized Croatia in 1999.
How history keeps repeating itself or threatens to repeat itself, can we be so foolish not to see this or do anything to prevent it again? I certainly hope to God this is not so, but knowing the Balkans as well as I do I have to conclude, that there will be violence from which no one wins and everyone loses. Ceku knows this too, that is why he did not want any part of being a leader when this happens.
(Canadian, 19. November 2007 05:45) "
Canadian
I did NOT write the above. Someone else did and I disagreed with him/her. Just wanted to set the record straight. Thank you.
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