Rice: Kosovo has no economy, Bosnia not real state

Very interesting comments from Condi. She is right about Bosnia being an artificial state.
However, I must correct her on Kosovo having no economy. Au contraire! Kosovo has a thriving economy. Drug trafficking (heroin), human trafficking. In fact they are Numero Uno in Europe in this field.
Notice not a word of a mention from Condi on Kosovo independence. Gee I wonder why? Could it be that the US is starting to get embarrassed by the way the albanians treat their minorities and destroy UNESCO heritage sites, ancient churches? Could it be that someone in the state department has put Nicholas Burns in his place and told him to shut up finally? I certainly hope so.
Cheers!

Funcakes, do you ever get tired of spewing the same anti Serb line?
I am amazed that your comments even get through.
When you have something intelligent to say please do, but spare us your sarcastic comments.
Bosnia is never going to function as a democratic country since it is not.
Until Croatians and Serbs get a voice in that government there is no country. Neither one will accept being under Muslim rule.
Bosnia is a failed experiment. We now know that Izetbegovic's government never intended for Bosnia to be governed fairly.
Pity it had to take so many lives and so much destruction for the world to see it.
Time to give the Croatians their part and join RS with Serbia.

Could this be US distancing themselves from unilateral declaration? Sounds awfully a lot like it. Its so obvious that US needs Russian support with Iran that they will gladly abandon you in a second. Huge change from enough is enough.

Bosnia was stillborn from the outset, 10 famelies own almost everything in the FBiH 98%of all jobs are occupied by muslim slavs. Try getting a job in the government if you are Croat or Serb. Moreover the RS functions rather well with one leader not 19 as in the FBiH.Silajdzic is an out and out nationalist who would if he lived in the UK be imprisoned for his anti-serb rhetoric, the very same views that led to war in the first place. Why should the majority communies Croat and Serb be forced to live with our former colonial overseers.

"This tripartite government leads nowhere and should be abolished. A single government should exist in Bosnia, and it should be composed of Muslims, Serbs and Croats. This is the only possible solution to run the state and its economy." - Victor

Yes indeed but isnt that what SFR Yugoslavia was proposing to Izetbegovic in early 1992 before he went for broke on consolidating power for himself his cronies and thus tore the country apart. Why all the destruction, hatred and suffering when it could have been sorted out then. Izetbegovic must shoulder a huge responsiblity for the blame.

Of course the transition has been sucky, what transition would be smooth with Serbia's finger tainting everything?

And that is, Madam Rice, because the USA involvement in Bosnia and Kosovo affairs.

She also described Kosovo as a territory that "still has no economy."

Of course KosovO has no economy. How can we move forward when the albanians make broken promises to the world & then wreck everything?

The peacekeeping mission is a HUGE failure & the protection of UN deemed historic sites is a farce - what does she expect? A miracle?

There's no use in even saying anything to anyone who's got cotton in her ears for anyone except bush.

I think there is hardly any progress in anything when america is after their interests.

However, it seems like rice was told to start speaking some truth about the situation in KiM.

As for BiH; of course it does not function like a state. And it never will because RS needs to seperate from the "Bosnian Federation."

Here is one reason for many things not functioning ion the Balkans. The US Secretary of State does not know that Bosnia has ONE army. This despite it was a representative of the US State Department that worked his full time to broker that deal? The US Secretary of State does not know that there are two Police forces in Bosnia. One in the Republika Srpska and one in the Federation. Maybe she considers the former State Border Service, do not know their new name, a police force? It might also be that she is not really informed about whatr is going on in Europe. Please, save us for putting more ignorant US statements to the public. Call back an official from yuopur department, that serves in Bosnia Condolezza Rice, get an update before you prove your ignorance in public.

Peggy, GSP and K-Serb camp. Do you know why we have US and EU involved in Balkans. I’ll tell you: Serbia when on terrorizing people to create Greater Serbia.

This message could be seen this way:
Since Bosnian model is branded as failure than the same model cannot be implemented Kosova. So status settlement for Kosova is necessity.

Time to give the Croatians their part and join RS with Serbia “Peggy”
According to this Kosova should go to K-Albanians or unite with Albania.

I recon, we do not touch Bosnia since is more complicated than many of you think.
After all, you are not going to bare the consequences

BJ - Not only is Ms Rice showing her ignorance on these matters, but she is also clearly showing that the US now recognises that Kosovo could not function as an independent state.

Bosnia was never going to work. It's just a case of how it will unravel and when, and it will be made far worse if the 'West' acts unevenly or goes back on its word.

To all those good hearted,
with good intentions, innocent
croats/bosniaks tearing their clothes apart for what appears
as total ignorance of the facts on behalf of Mrs Rice.

Well, Mrs Rice and her predecessors know very well what words to use.

Serbs have been suffering from such "ignorance" for at least 15 years.

Its not real ignorance, its called "change of policy".

Wellcome to the world of injustice, relax and get used to it. You serbian brothers will help you with their experiences.

I really dont wish any muslim/croat for their nations to go thru the hell that Serb nation did.

Victor, if the government should be composed of croats serbs and muslims... why did yugoslavia even break up in the first place. isnt bosnia a mini yugoslavia??

Teni - YET AGAIN - I am not Serbian. I am English and a European. If I was Serbian I would just say so.

And re. my comment: "Bosnia was never going to work. It's just a case of how it will unravel and when, and it will be made far worse if the 'West' acts unevenly or goes back on its word."

How can you distort this to mean that I am for the break up of Bosnia? I am neither for nor against it, but what I've been reading recently seems like outside powers are meddling maliciously.

Olf, There is one big difference between Bosnia and Kosovo.

Bosnia was never Muslim. The time of Turkish occupation cannot be considered that it was Muslim. The country was occupied at the time.

Kosovo was always Serbian. Until recent history it was not populated by majority of Albanians.

Invading a country like the Turks did does not legitimize a Muslim government once that country has got rid of it's ivaders like over breeding and ethnically cleansing over a period of time does not entitle Albanians to take the territory away and rule it.

Have I explained it enough for you now?

Funcakes, more like the K-Albanian mafia and their partners in the Pristina gov that are tainting things in Kosovo. Try not to use Serbia as a scape goat for their many, many problems. The only problem Serbia is poseing is blocking their independence. The rest is self imposed by the Pristina gov and their partners in crime.

How nicely said Mrs Rice. I can even agree with you, agree 100%. Well, solution and the truth is that Srpska should join Serbia after referendum. Yet USA should guarantee stability in order to make this separation as peacefully as it can be. However, you haven't said anything on Kosovo status. You were silent as few days ago as Germany was.......what's up?

«With three presidents, three separate police forces and three armies, Bosnia does not operate as a real state, Rice said.»

This tripartite government leads nowhere and should be abolished. A single government should exist in Bosnia, and it should be composed of Muslims, Serbs and Croats. This is the only possible solution to run the state and its economy.

"Essentially, Kosovo still does not economy," Rice told the Texas daily.

First of all the English grammar on this line is wrong.

Secondly Kosova cannot build an economy without any relations to the IMF. What ever money has been put into Kosovo has been spent by the international community who pay themselves ridicules money to do very little.

Kosovo's independence will move this forward to the local who aren’t saints themselves however the people will have the last say.

With regards to Bosnia i think the hole federation is a complete shamble the current structure will not work, hence why i think that the serb/croats parts should be separated and given to their mother lands i.e. serbia/croatia.

this will no doubt be the final faction in the Yugoslav chapter of complete mayhem, as i think that the North of Macedonia and the south of serbia should also be joining Kosovo's independence day to stop this madness from ever happening again.

Its clear that every one is ultra nationalist so why is the west trying to implement systems where there is going to be more unrest in the future.

This would probably be very difficult to achieve, but following what happened in the 90s in Balkans, after all the death, destruction, hatred, one solution would be to define borders along ethnic lines. Morally it sounds wrong, and its against the idea of tolerance, multi-ethnicity, but lets face it: everybody hates everybody in Balkans. And while there are isolated cases where different communites live in peace, there is always tension.

Its true that multi-ethnicity will work in Balkans, but it will take many many decades, and huge effort, and there is always the danger of one small incident destroying all the work that has been done for years.

Let RS join Serbia

Kosovo gets independence
and joins Albania if it wants to.

Wester Macedonia and Presevo area also joins Kosovo and Albania.

North of Kosovo joins Serbia.


This will solve these problems once and for all and than we can all live separately but happily. With no ethnic tension, the region will prosper rapidly.

Bosnian Muslims and Macedonians will not be happy with this, since in their eyes they will see it as losing territory, but in long term it will benefit them hugely in terms on stability, economy, and a better life.

Look at Montenegro - its tiny, but still developing faster than some countries in the region.

If Europeans want to try their ideas of tolerance, mutli-ethnicity, etc etc... let them do it in their own countries.

Kate:
Are by any chance proposing the break up of Bosnia?! I would have expected that from many a Serb here but you! You had such respect for international law and the sovereignty of states!
And Kate really are you sure you are not Serb because you have such a strong Serb bias. Just come out and say it. I am an Albanian and I see no reason to hide it. Why would you?

Wow, all the things we Serbs & friends have been saying on these topics are true, straight from the horses mouth.

Victor, you're right. The war in Croatia had nothing to do with Serbs being denied rights as citizens within the borders of the republic of Croatia. It was just Serbs trying to start a fight and expand their borders. And Croatia had every right to kick them out and deny them the right to return just for being a Serb.
P.S. Serbia has lived up to its past and actually apologised for things that it has done. Can you say the same about Croatia, who until this day still glorifies its Nazi past, and celebrates the day it cleansed its nation of Serbs as a national holiday?

First of all, Kosovo has never, at any point of history had any economy. You can imagine when Serbia left, Kosovo now has 55% unemployment, whereas the rest is black economy.
Right now Macedonian and Slovenian companies have bought whatever is worth any money in Prishtina (Hotels and such...), everything that is built in Kosovo (roads, schools) is built by Macedonian companies. The oil, food also comes from Macedonia.
If Kosovo becomes independence, Spain, France, Romania, Hungary, Russia, UK... will all split.
As for Bosnia, no comment.

@peggy
If you are so smart, just name the towns and villages that should go to croatia!
I wonder how many cities you will find where a solid majority would say yes to this plan. (and in case you could name more than 3, i bet in most cases a bosnian serb refugee ngo would cry foul in most cases, and they would be right!)

«With three presidents, three separate police forces and three armies, Bosnia does not operate as a real state, Rice said.»

This tripartite government leads nowhere and should be abolished. A single government should exist in Bosnia, and it should be composed of Muslims, Serbs and Croats. This is the only possible solution to run the state and its economy.

Wogboy,
fine idea!!!

Then lets also have Yugoslavija as well??

And punish those who destroyed her?

And...

And...

no Ron, ...there is simply no need to swap anything.

Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, approved by a specially ( the territorial integrity ) affirming UNSC-resolution...

for my private taste, you´re bargaining a little bit too easy with things that are not your private issue.

Kosovo is serbian. all of it.
keep that in mind.

@mrgud:
1. please name those 10 families and expalain why you have omitted the other criminals (jankovic recieved even compensation from the serb government recently!)
2. rs has one leader who controls everything, but there is still no progress
3. the more interesting question is, how to make those "top families" responsible for what they are doing on us?

The only way Bosnia will get better is if it returns to socialism. That wouldnt be too hard. The people were 1000 times better off.

Milan,

Why ask the question when you know the answer?

Milosevic knew that he could not keep Yugoslavia together.
Milosevic cynically became a nationalist after years as an orthodox Yugoslav communist because communism was failing and apparatchiks such as himself needed a new ideology to legitimise their clinging to power. Serbian nationalism provided him with such an ideology.

«Why all the destruction, hatred and suffering when it could have been sorted out then. » (Niall O'Doherty}

Niall,

The answer is simple. The whole State of Yugoslavia was an artificial state, formed with the annexion of different nations, different countries, and after the fall of communism, all these nations wanted their independence, just as many of the states in former USSR.

Milosevic knew that he could not stop the independence, but only war could permit him to achieve his goal: the creation of a New State for all Serbs, better known as Greater Serbia.

The only huge responsiblity in the fall of ex-Yu is on Milosevic's shoulders and no where else!

I really hoped so should have added to her statements:

... so let's swap RS for Kosovo and finally things can start going the right way in the Balkans.

Kosovo is a province of Serbia, so no economy of course!

Come on guys. Stop this nonsense. Swap RS for Kosovo NOW!!

Clean Cut.You write that Kosovo was never Serbian and it was part of the Ottoman Emprie until it ceased to exits.
It was part of an Ottoman Empire just like Bosnia was. In other words it was invaded by the Turks.
Whose land did the Turks invade? Serbian of course.

If it was never Serbian how do you explain churches and monasterie there which are centureis old belonging to Serbian people?

Once the Ottoman Empire crumbled the land was back in the hands of it's rightful owners. I can tell you it wasn't Albania.

Olf: "I cannot believe that Kate Miss International Law is opting for separation of Bosnia"

That's 'Ms International Law' to you.

"Victor, if the government should be composed of croats serbs and muslims... why did yugoslavia even break up in the first place. isnt bosnia a mini yugoslavia??" (Milan)

I agree with that. If it didn't work in Yugoslavia, why would it work now? There is always the chance that another Milosevic will come along in RS and cause the same war and destruction, or some other radical bosnian or croat leader.

I cannot believe that Kate Miss International Law is opting for separation of Bosnia and the saddest t thing that K-Albanians, Serbs from diaspora and many other non Bosnians are discussing how should Bosnians live their lives. Isn’t it pathetic.

Kosova was never in its history been part of any Serbia. Kosova was part of Ottoman Empire until that ceased to exist. Then it was included in the artificial state of Yugoslavia as an Autonomous Province under Serbia and also being an Constituitive part of Yugoslavia as a whole. After the break up of Yugoslavia, all the other Constituitive parts of it have become independent, Kosova has still fighting for its international recognition after 8 years of functioning as an independent state de facto.

Unfortunately, now Kosova needs to resolve its status, in order to be part of IMF, and other World bodies, so as to start using its resources to develop itself. Kosova will surely go into an economic boom soon after the Independence is confirmed, because it has after all the best resource for a booming economy, the youngest population in Europe. Projects for its development are ready, businesses are ready, foreign investors are ready, everything is ready for the Independence switch.

That's what Ms. Secretary was saying.

There is a lot of reference being made to "Greater Serbia" these days. It should be known that this is nothing more than a thought up artificial label which originated in Austro-Hungary. The label implies Serbian ambitions to live in one state and is, to this very day, used in anti-Serb propaganda. Although, I can understand why Austro-Hungary was so concerned (no access to the Adriatic).

Britain, Russia, the United States are all great. Serbia was always modest at best. Is there a map of this "Greater Serbia"??? I would like to see it and compare it to other European documented maps.

Also, when we talk of "artificial" creations, then we need to understand that the republic of B&H and the autonomous region of K&M, was artificially created by the KPJ (Communist Party of Yugoslavia), based upon artificiall reasons, respectfully.

Eagle said,
When Serbia was in Kosovo the unemployment rate was higher that 90%. No Albanian was allowed to have a government job.


You may even convinced someone who has never been in Kosovo or visited KiM but I will say that this is not true. I have lived in Pristina for few years and I know my neigbour Albanians who have been working at that time (Milosevic time) in different sectors owned by state. The thing is that majority of Albanians did not want to work as their way of defiance or protest. And yes, KiM was very decent place to live even in Milosevic time. Now is very bad place for living

As to why is US administration treating Kosovo in a peculiar way as a "unique" case - which it is not, we can perhaps infer from the comment of one American soldier - who was in Kosovo as one of US soldiers. In his comment on his views on Kosovo (which he posted on Internet) he said that before leaving for Kosovo at that time US President Mr. Klinton gave them a speech where he said: "This will bring us reward in the Arab world".
I suppose that from that we can get some understanding why is that so...

Peggy - I'd worry much more about your biased statements...like "they'd never accept living under MUSLIM rule".

As if anyone is talking about religious chit-chat here. Keep that for the churches and mosques, we're talking about countries and legal institutions here.

Delije - Have you conveniently forgotten all the selective wars by Serbia? Like Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro easily becoming independent, while Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo not so much?

How is it that Serbia is such a "fair angel"? Sounds to me more like a religious hellzone where all the non-Orthodox countries don't get independence without bloodshed.

And of course, transitions are sucky, people are oppressed, everything is out of order...but somehow everyone else is to blame after they're well butchered, while Serbia is all goody-goody cristal clear.

@victor: the problem is not to have 3 presidents, because they are rather decoration and have no real politcal power because of their job as president (the power of h.s. comes from his post as party leader and his wide network)

there is already a government that should steer bosnia, and it is omposed of serbs (PM), croats, bosnians and one "other", and even the number of deputy ministers is balance according to nationality

it will however never function, unless the PM will have the obligation to arrange sessions, and the ministers will have the obligation to show up at those sessions, and the ministers will have the obligation to talk to their deputies (that are normally of a different nationality)

Victor,

Do you remember how the Yugoslavian flag looked like in 1990?

Do you remember how the Bosnian flag looked like in 1990?

Are you proposing to put Yugoslavia back together again?

Swap Kosovo for RS? Well then Sadzak will then join Bosnia and Vojvodina will join Hungary.

Condy's got a point.
If a province has more than 50% unemployed and other difficult economical issues, than it is quite reasonable to assume that the Kosovo economy is in very bad condition. Beside, US among other nations donate Kosovo, finance UN mission. They have people on the ground too. So there is no reason to believe that US government and Condi do not now in what condition is Kosovo economy.
Condi is right about BiH too. Let's just imagine that international community right now leave BiH and let the country govern itself. What would happen? Anybody can tell that very soon the disputes within the entities would increase. In long term, the absence of international community would probably result in another war. Recent developments in BiH show how much is hard to maintain the funcionality of the country. Condi mentioned three armies which is quite incorrect statement if taken literary. However, if it was just expression that wants to state that BiH army is not under one command than the statement makes more sense.
I've read other comments in which people agree with Condi's opinion but at the same time they say that she was ignorant too. What I may conclude from that is that these guys are ignorant too. There are too much emotions among people who sent the comments. This time Condi was mostly describing the situation in Kosovo economy and BiH funcionality. She was NOT talking what should be done about Kosovo status or about RS issues.

ZORAN,

When Serbia was in Kosovo the unemployment rate was higher that 90%. No Albanian was allowed to have a government job.
It's true that unemployment rate is high in Kosovo but is much better than when Serbia was in Kosovo. When I go back to Kosovo for visit and I look at my hometown where most of the people who wants to work have jobs. Before 1999 none of them were working.
So please don't tell me that unemployment in Kosovo is higher than the time when serbia was in Kosovo.

victor, yugoslavia was not formed with the annexation of any teritories, it was formed as a union of serbs croats and slovenes. no-one was forced to become part of yugoslavia. The croats were keen on the idea because they were worried about austro-hungarian designs on their territory, the slovenians were worried about being taken over by italy. This union of southern slavs was formed primarily as a defensive arrangement. After ww1 the western powers had actually offered serbia all of bosnia as a reward for their efforts as allies however the serbs chose to join yugoslavia instead, they must be kicking themselves.

Hey guys.
The interview of Mrs Rice was like 10 pages long and in that one sentance was for Bosnia and one for Kosova. The rest was about Musaraf in Pakistan. The point the topik was neither Kosova nor Bosnia. So stop arguing about what she said.

Peggy
thanks for explanation.
See Clean Cut posting for further explanation.
In addition, Kosova was never part of Serbia but occupied for Serbia, part of Yug. yes but no Serbia. Serbia is/was in Kosova same as Briain is/was in India.

Of course the transition has been sucky, what transition would be smooth with Serbia's finger tainting everything?

Peggy, GSP and K-Serb camp. Do you know why we have US and EU involved in Balkans. I’ll tell you: Serbia when on terrorizing people to create Greater Serbia.

This message could be seen this way:
Since Bosnian model is branded as failure than the same model cannot be implemented Kosova. So status settlement for Kosova is necessity.

Time to give the Croatians their part and join RS with Serbia “Peggy”
According to this Kosova should go to K-Albanians or unite with Albania.

I recon, we do not touch Bosnia since is more complicated than many of you think.
After all, you are not going to bare the consequences

Funcakes, do you ever get tired of spewing the same anti Serb line?
I am amazed that your comments even get through.
When you have something intelligent to say please do, but spare us your sarcastic comments.
Bosnia is never going to function as a democratic country since it is not.
Until Croatians and Serbs get a voice in that government there is no country. Neither one will accept being under Muslim rule.
Bosnia is a failed experiment. We now know that Izetbegovic's government never intended for Bosnia to be governed fairly.
Pity it had to take so many lives and so much destruction for the world to see it.
Time to give the Croatians their part and join RS with Serbia.

"Essentially, Kosovo still does not economy," Rice told the Texas daily.

First of all the English grammar on this line is wrong.

Secondly Kosova cannot build an economy without any relations to the IMF. What ever money has been put into Kosovo has been spent by the international community who pay themselves ridicules money to do very little.

Kosovo's independence will move this forward to the local who aren’t saints themselves however the people will have the last say.

With regards to Bosnia i think the hole federation is a complete shamble the current structure will not work, hence why i think that the serb/croats parts should be separated and given to their mother lands i.e. serbia/croatia.

this will no doubt be the final faction in the Yugoslav chapter of complete mayhem, as i think that the North of Macedonia and the south of serbia should also be joining Kosovo's independence day to stop this madness from ever happening again.

Its clear that every one is ultra nationalist so why is the west trying to implement systems where there is going to be more unrest in the future.

Kate:
Are by any chance proposing the break up of Bosnia?! I would have expected that from many a Serb here but you! You had such respect for international law and the sovereignty of states!
And Kate really are you sure you are not Serb because you have such a strong Serb bias. Just come out and say it. I am an Albanian and I see no reason to hide it. Why would you?

«Why all the destruction, hatred and suffering when it could have been sorted out then. » (Niall O'Doherty}

Niall,

The answer is simple. The whole State of Yugoslavia was an artificial state, formed with the annexion of different nations, different countries, and after the fall of communism, all these nations wanted their independence, just as many of the states in former USSR.

Milosevic knew that he could not stop the independence, but only war could permit him to achieve his goal: the creation of a New State for all Serbs, better known as Greater Serbia.

The only huge responsiblity in the fall of ex-Yu is on Milosevic's shoulders and no where else!

«With three presidents, three separate police forces and three armies, Bosnia does not operate as a real state, Rice said.»

This tripartite government leads nowhere and should be abolished. A single government should exist in Bosnia, and it should be composed of Muslims, Serbs and Croats. This is the only possible solution to run the state and its economy.

«With three presidents, three separate police forces and three armies, Bosnia does not operate as a real state, Rice said.»

This tripartite government leads nowhere and should be abolished. A single government should exist in Bosnia, and it should be composed of Muslims, Serbs and Croats. This is the only possible solution to run the state and its economy.

Very interesting comments from Condi. She is right about Bosnia being an artificial state.
However, I must correct her on Kosovo having no economy. Au contraire! Kosovo has a thriving economy. Drug trafficking (heroin), human trafficking. In fact they are Numero Uno in Europe in this field.
Notice not a word of a mention from Condi on Kosovo independence. Gee I wonder why? Could it be that the US is starting to get embarrassed by the way the albanians treat their minorities and destroy UNESCO heritage sites, ancient churches? Could it be that someone in the state department has put Nicholas Burns in his place and told him to shut up finally? I certainly hope so.
Cheers!

I cannot believe that Kate Miss International Law is opting for separation of Bosnia and the saddest t thing that K-Albanians, Serbs from diaspora and many other non Bosnians are discussing how should Bosnians live their lives. Isn’t it pathetic.

Swap Kosovo for RS? Well then Sadzak will then join Bosnia and Vojvodina will join Hungary.

Kosova was never in its history been part of any Serbia. Kosova was part of Ottoman Empire until that ceased to exist. Then it was included in the artificial state of Yugoslavia as an Autonomous Province under Serbia and also being an Constituitive part of Yugoslavia as a whole. After the break up of Yugoslavia, all the other Constituitive parts of it have become independent, Kosova has still fighting for its international recognition after 8 years of functioning as an independent state de facto.

Unfortunately, now Kosova needs to resolve its status, in order to be part of IMF, and other World bodies, so as to start using its resources to develop itself. Kosova will surely go into an economic boom soon after the Independence is confirmed, because it has after all the best resource for a booming economy, the youngest population in Europe. Projects for its development are ready, businesses are ready, foreign investors are ready, everything is ready for the Independence switch.

That's what Ms. Secretary was saying.

Bosnia was stillborn from the outset, 10 famelies own almost everything in the FBiH 98%of all jobs are occupied by muslim slavs. Try getting a job in the government if you are Croat or Serb. Moreover the RS functions rather well with one leader not 19 as in the FBiH.Silajdzic is an out and out nationalist who would if he lived in the UK be imprisoned for his anti-serb rhetoric, the very same views that led to war in the first place. Why should the majority communies Croat and Serb be forced to live with our former colonial overseers.

@mrgud:
1. please name those 10 families and expalain why you have omitted the other criminals (jankovic recieved even compensation from the serb government recently!)
2. rs has one leader who controls everything, but there is still no progress
3. the more interesting question is, how to make those "top families" responsible for what they are doing on us?

"Victor, if the government should be composed of croats serbs and muslims... why did yugoslavia even break up in the first place. isnt bosnia a mini yugoslavia??" (Milan)

I agree with that. If it didn't work in Yugoslavia, why would it work now? There is always the chance that another Milosevic will come along in RS and cause the same war and destruction, or some other radical bosnian or croat leader.

Milan,

Why ask the question when you know the answer?

Milosevic knew that he could not keep Yugoslavia together.
Milosevic cynically became a nationalist after years as an orthodox Yugoslav communist because communism was failing and apparatchiks such as himself needed a new ideology to legitimise their clinging to power. Serbian nationalism provided him with such an ideology.

Peggy
thanks for explanation.
See Clean Cut posting for further explanation.
In addition, Kosova was never part of Serbia but occupied for Serbia, part of Yug. yes but no Serbia. Serbia is/was in Kosova same as Briain is/was in India.

And that is, Madam Rice, because the USA involvement in Bosnia and Kosovo affairs.

She also described Kosovo as a territory that "still has no economy."

Of course KosovO has no economy. How can we move forward when the albanians make broken promises to the world & then wreck everything?

The peacekeeping mission is a HUGE failure & the protection of UN deemed historic sites is a farce - what does she expect? A miracle?

There's no use in even saying anything to anyone who's got cotton in her ears for anyone except bush.

@peggy
If you are so smart, just name the towns and villages that should go to croatia!
I wonder how many cities you will find where a solid majority would say yes to this plan. (and in case you could name more than 3, i bet in most cases a bosnian serb refugee ngo would cry foul in most cases, and they would be right!)

Here is one reason for many things not functioning ion the Balkans. The US Secretary of State does not know that Bosnia has ONE army. This despite it was a representative of the US State Department that worked his full time to broker that deal? The US Secretary of State does not know that there are two Police forces in Bosnia. One in the Republika Srpska and one in the Federation. Maybe she considers the former State Border Service, do not know their new name, a police force? It might also be that she is not really informed about whatr is going on in Europe. Please, save us for putting more ignorant US statements to the public. Call back an official from yuopur department, that serves in Bosnia Condolezza Rice, get an update before you prove your ignorance in public.

BJ - Not only is Ms Rice showing her ignorance on these matters, but she is also clearly showing that the US now recognises that Kosovo could not function as an independent state.

Bosnia was never going to work. It's just a case of how it will unravel and when, and it will be made far worse if the 'West' acts unevenly or goes back on its word.

Wogboy,
fine idea!!!

Then lets also have Yugoslavija as well??

And punish those who destroyed her?

And...

And...

This would probably be very difficult to achieve, but following what happened in the 90s in Balkans, after all the death, destruction, hatred, one solution would be to define borders along ethnic lines. Morally it sounds wrong, and its against the idea of tolerance, multi-ethnicity, but lets face it: everybody hates everybody in Balkans. And while there are isolated cases where different communites live in peace, there is always tension.

Its true that multi-ethnicity will work in Balkans, but it will take many many decades, and huge effort, and there is always the danger of one small incident destroying all the work that has been done for years.

Let RS join Serbia

Kosovo gets independence
and joins Albania if it wants to.

Wester Macedonia and Presevo area also joins Kosovo and Albania.

North of Kosovo joins Serbia.


This will solve these problems once and for all and than we can all live separately but happily. With no ethnic tension, the region will prosper rapidly.

Bosnian Muslims and Macedonians will not be happy with this, since in their eyes they will see it as losing territory, but in long term it will benefit them hugely in terms on stability, economy, and a better life.

Look at Montenegro - its tiny, but still developing faster than some countries in the region.

If Europeans want to try their ideas of tolerance, mutli-ethnicity, etc etc... let them do it in their own countries.

"This tripartite government leads nowhere and should be abolished. A single government should exist in Bosnia, and it should be composed of Muslims, Serbs and Croats. This is the only possible solution to run the state and its economy." - Victor

Yes indeed but isnt that what SFR Yugoslavia was proposing to Izetbegovic in early 1992 before he went for broke on consolidating power for himself his cronies and thus tore the country apart. Why all the destruction, hatred and suffering when it could have been sorted out then. Izetbegovic must shoulder a huge responsiblity for the blame.

I think there is hardly any progress in anything when america is after their interests.

However, it seems like rice was told to start speaking some truth about the situation in KiM.

As for BiH; of course it does not function like a state. And it never will because RS needs to seperate from the "Bosnian Federation."

Victor, you're right. The war in Croatia had nothing to do with Serbs being denied rights as citizens within the borders of the republic of Croatia. It was just Serbs trying to start a fight and expand their borders. And Croatia had every right to kick them out and deny them the right to return just for being a Serb.
P.S. Serbia has lived up to its past and actually apologised for things that it has done. Can you say the same about Croatia, who until this day still glorifies its Nazi past, and celebrates the day it cleansed its nation of Serbs as a national holiday?

I really hoped so should have added to her statements:

... so let's swap RS for Kosovo and finally things can start going the right way in the Balkans.

Kosovo is a province of Serbia, so no economy of course!

Come on guys. Stop this nonsense. Swap RS for Kosovo NOW!!

Peggy - I'd worry much more about your biased statements...like "they'd never accept living under MUSLIM rule".

As if anyone is talking about religious chit-chat here. Keep that for the churches and mosques, we're talking about countries and legal institutions here.

Delije - Have you conveniently forgotten all the selective wars by Serbia? Like Slovenia, Macedonia, Montenegro easily becoming independent, while Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo not so much?

How is it that Serbia is such a "fair angel"? Sounds to me more like a religious hellzone where all the non-Orthodox countries don't get independence without bloodshed.

And of course, transitions are sucky, people are oppressed, everything is out of order...but somehow everyone else is to blame after they're well butchered, while Serbia is all goody-goody cristal clear.

Could this be US distancing themselves from unilateral declaration? Sounds awfully a lot like it. Its so obvious that US needs Russian support with Iran that they will gladly abandon you in a second. Huge change from enough is enough.

@victor: the problem is not to have 3 presidents, because they are rather decoration and have no real politcal power because of their job as president (the power of h.s. comes from his post as party leader and his wide network)

there is already a government that should steer bosnia, and it is omposed of serbs (PM), croats, bosnians and one "other", and even the number of deputy ministers is balance according to nationality

it will however never function, unless the PM will have the obligation to arrange sessions, and the ministers will have the obligation to show up at those sessions, and the ministers will have the obligation to talk to their deputies (that are normally of a different nationality)

The only way Bosnia will get better is if it returns to socialism. That wouldnt be too hard. The people were 1000 times better off.

To all those good hearted,
with good intentions, innocent
croats/bosniaks tearing their clothes apart for what appears
as total ignorance of the facts on behalf of Mrs Rice.

Well, Mrs Rice and her predecessors know very well what words to use.

Serbs have been suffering from such "ignorance" for at least 15 years.

Its not real ignorance, its called "change of policy".

Wellcome to the world of injustice, relax and get used to it. You serbian brothers will help you with their experiences.

I really dont wish any muslim/croat for their nations to go thru the hell that Serb nation did.

Victor, if the government should be composed of croats serbs and muslims... why did yugoslavia even break up in the first place. isnt bosnia a mini yugoslavia??

Teni - YET AGAIN - I am not Serbian. I am English and a European. If I was Serbian I would just say so.

And re. my comment: "Bosnia was never going to work. It's just a case of how it will unravel and when, and it will be made far worse if the 'West' acts unevenly or goes back on its word."

How can you distort this to mean that I am for the break up of Bosnia? I am neither for nor against it, but what I've been reading recently seems like outside powers are meddling maliciously.

Wow, all the things we Serbs & friends have been saying on these topics are true, straight from the horses mouth.

Funcakes, more like the K-Albanian mafia and their partners in the Pristina gov that are tainting things in Kosovo. Try not to use Serbia as a scape goat for their many, many problems. The only problem Serbia is poseing is blocking their independence. The rest is self imposed by the Pristina gov and their partners in crime.

Victor,

Do you remember how the Yugoslavian flag looked like in 1990?

Do you remember how the Bosnian flag looked like in 1990?

Are you proposing to put Yugoslavia back together again?

How nicely said Mrs Rice. I can even agree with you, agree 100%. Well, solution and the truth is that Srpska should join Serbia after referendum. Yet USA should guarantee stability in order to make this separation as peacefully as it can be. However, you haven't said anything on Kosovo status. You were silent as few days ago as Germany was.......what's up?

First of all, Kosovo has never, at any point of history had any economy. You can imagine when Serbia left, Kosovo now has 55% unemployment, whereas the rest is black economy.
Right now Macedonian and Slovenian companies have bought whatever is worth any money in Prishtina (Hotels and such...), everything that is built in Kosovo (roads, schools) is built by Macedonian companies. The oil, food also comes from Macedonia.
If Kosovo becomes independence, Spain, France, Romania, Hungary, Russia, UK... will all split.
As for Bosnia, no comment.

Olf, There is one big difference between Bosnia and Kosovo.

Bosnia was never Muslim. The time of Turkish occupation cannot be considered that it was Muslim. The country was occupied at the time.

Kosovo was always Serbian. Until recent history it was not populated by majority of Albanians.

Invading a country like the Turks did does not legitimize a Muslim government once that country has got rid of it's ivaders like over breeding and ethnically cleansing over a period of time does not entitle Albanians to take the territory away and rule it.

Have I explained it enough for you now?

Condy's got a point.
If a province has more than 50% unemployed and other difficult economical issues, than it is quite reasonable to assume that the Kosovo economy is in very bad condition. Beside, US among other nations donate Kosovo, finance UN mission. They have people on the ground too. So there is no reason to believe that US government and Condi do not now in what condition is Kosovo economy.
Condi is right about BiH too. Let's just imagine that international community right now leave BiH and let the country govern itself. What would happen? Anybody can tell that very soon the disputes within the entities would increase. In long term, the absence of international community would probably result in another war. Recent developments in BiH show how much is hard to maintain the funcionality of the country. Condi mentioned three armies which is quite incorrect statement if taken literary. However, if it was just expression that wants to state that BiH army is not under one command than the statement makes more sense.
I've read other comments in which people agree with Condi's opinion but at the same time they say that she was ignorant too. What I may conclude from that is that these guys are ignorant too. There are too much emotions among people who sent the comments. This time Condi was mostly describing the situation in Kosovo economy and BiH funcionality. She was NOT talking what should be done about Kosovo status or about RS issues.

no Ron, ...there is simply no need to swap anything.

Kosovo is an integral part of Serbia, approved by a specially ( the territorial integrity ) affirming UNSC-resolution...

for my private taste, you´re bargaining a little bit too easy with things that are not your private issue.

Kosovo is serbian. all of it.
keep that in mind.

Clean Cut.You write that Kosovo was never Serbian and it was part of the Ottoman Emprie until it ceased to exits.
It was part of an Ottoman Empire just like Bosnia was. In other words it was invaded by the Turks.
Whose land did the Turks invade? Serbian of course.

If it was never Serbian how do you explain churches and monasterie there which are centureis old belonging to Serbian people?

Once the Ottoman Empire crumbled the land was back in the hands of it's rightful owners. I can tell you it wasn't Albania.

There is a lot of reference being made to "Greater Serbia" these days. It should be known that this is nothing more than a thought up artificial label which originated in Austro-Hungary. The label implies Serbian ambitions to live in one state and is, to this very day, used in anti-Serb propaganda. Although, I can understand why Austro-Hungary was so concerned (no access to the Adriatic).

Britain, Russia, the United States are all great. Serbia was always modest at best. Is there a map of this "Greater Serbia"??? I would like to see it and compare it to other European documented maps.

Also, when we talk of "artificial" creations, then we need to understand that the republic of B&H and the autonomous region of K&M, was artificially created by the KPJ (Communist Party of Yugoslavia), based upon artificiall reasons, respectfully.

As to why is US administration treating Kosovo in a peculiar way as a "unique" case - which it is not, we can perhaps infer from the comment of one American soldier - who was in Kosovo as one of US soldiers. In his comment on his views on Kosovo (which he posted on Internet) he said that before leaving for Kosovo at that time US President Mr. Klinton gave them a speech where he said: "This will bring us reward in the Arab world".
I suppose that from that we can get some understanding why is that so...

Hey guys.
The interview of Mrs Rice was like 10 pages long and in that one sentance was for Bosnia and one for Kosova. The rest was about Musaraf in Pakistan. The point the topik was neither Kosova nor Bosnia. So stop arguing about what she said.

ZORAN,

When Serbia was in Kosovo the unemployment rate was higher that 90%. No Albanian was allowed to have a government job.
It's true that unemployment rate is high in Kosovo but is much better than when Serbia was in Kosovo. When I go back to Kosovo for visit and I look at my hometown where most of the people who wants to work have jobs. Before 1999 none of them were working.
So please don't tell me that unemployment in Kosovo is higher than the time when serbia was in Kosovo.

Olf: "I cannot believe that Kate Miss International Law is opting for separation of Bosnia"

That's 'Ms International Law' to you.

Eagle said,
When Serbia was in Kosovo the unemployment rate was higher that 90%. No Albanian was allowed to have a government job.


You may even convinced someone who has never been in Kosovo or visited KiM but I will say that this is not true. I have lived in Pristina for few years and I know my neigbour Albanians who have been working at that time (Milosevic time) in different sectors owned by state. The thing is that majority of Albanians did not want to work as their way of defiance or protest. And yes, KiM was very decent place to live even in Milosevic time. Now is very bad place for living

victor, yugoslavia was not formed with the annexation of any teritories, it was formed as a union of serbs croats and slovenes. no-one was forced to become part of yugoslavia. The croats were keen on the idea because they were worried about austro-hungarian designs on their territory, the slovenians were worried about being taken over by italy. This union of southern slavs was formed primarily as a defensive arrangement. After ww1 the western powers had actually offered serbia all of bosnia as a reward for their efforts as allies however the serbs chose to join yugoslavia instead, they must be kicking themselves.