Croatian Serb arrested in Canada

A fair trial in Croatia? Please. The words 'Croatian Justice' are an oxymoron. All you have to do is look at 60,000 fans doing the sieg heil salute in Zagreb, and that will tell you what kind of people are living in that country. There can be no 'justice' in such a country.
It's almost as absurd as 'albanian justice', which is even more of a joke. Serbs have to live behind barbed wire there, and they talk about having a 'judicial system' there to prosecute criminals. It is not an accident that croats and albanians supported Nazism, it was their choice. The Serbs chose the path of freedom and independence, justice. Nothing much seems to have changed. The most tolerant and multi-ethnic country in the Balkans is Serbia, as the evidence shows, and it has always been that way.

Lenard: "I'm glad the murderers of ethnic groups ,rapist ,thief's and suchlike are facing justice after so many years."

I agree. As long as this also includes war criminals from all groups - Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Croatians AND Serbs.

There is a Croat man living free in Croatia who admitted killing around 80 mostly Serb civlians. His name is Tomislav Mercep: http://www.ex-yupress.com/feral/feral45.html

and others in his group were doing the same with orders to liquidate and ethnically cleanse Serb towns in Croatia.

His says his group was just one of many Croat-led groups killing off Serbs in Croatia.

The Hague is NOT interested in him or the men like him who committed genocide on Serb civilians.

They admittedly committed more murders than this one man is accused (perhaps falsely) of committed in a group.

If a single Croat who committed more murders than an entire group of Serbs it shows neither Croatia or the international community is interested in the greater number of Serb civilians who were killed in Croatia.

The dead Croats are most all soldiers and police.

Far more Serb children and women were killed in Croatia.

The census shows that the Croat's population didn't fall at all, but the Serbs did.

The census shows only that the Serbs were ethnically cleansed out of Croatia.

Hold your horses Lenard, Victor this guy hasnt been convicted yet.

Indeed as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other organisations have pointed out in the past there have been grave concerns about trumped up charges against Serbs in Croatia.

The concerns included trials in absentia, judges showing obvious bias, the Croatian legal system basing charges against Serbs upon the fact that they were in Croatia during the war. The arrest of mistakenly identified Serbs. Then there are the secret lists of Serbs that wouldnt be released to the public - which helped to deter more Serb returnees.
The list of concerns is painfully long.

You know something has to be said here. It seems to me that most Croats think it was a war crime being part of a Serb unit resisting Crotian rule. If the (any) guy comitted war crimes I'm the first one who would like him to go down, but putting on a uniform and taking a gun to protect the place where you live in not a war crime. God knows we have heard this often enough from Croats talking about defending themselves.

Still, the Croatian judicial system is in better shape than it was some years ago. All I want is for everybody to get a fair trial.

Kate,

don't bother. They are all eager to comment on Serbia's war crimes but the next news on war crimes by Mujahedins in Bosnia is not important to comment becuase Serbs were the victims. It seem to me that all Serbs from Croatia are on interpol list. I hope Serbia is going to do something on that.

VICTOR said: "Unfortunately, the news present cases of Serbs who have committed war crimes, and not of Mujahidins. Mujahidins certainly committed crimes but again I am sure that Serbs, because they were the attackers, committed more crimes, as suggested by many international reports, and it is normal that more are being arrested on a daily basis."

What “news” and “international reports” are you talking about? Do you mean the fabricated anti-Serbian propaganda?
Even the “naivest Americans” and Western Europeans have started to wake-up.

VICTOR said: "I understand that it is hard to accept for our Serbian posters, that members of their own nation are being brought to justice almost every month"

I’m not a Serb. Are you a Serb?

As to Thompson... Isn’t he the Croatian “national” singer who sung a song glorifying and praising ustasha and Jasenovac?
…Or he is just a “bad Serb” in disguise, who wants to blacken Croats in public’s opinion conscience?
We will even hear this too one day….

And we all know how innocent the Croats in Canada are:

Nov 05, 2007
Croatian rocker Marko Perkovic took to the stage last night at a "secret and private" concert in Norval, west of Brampton; Canada
The performance attracted thousands of members of the Croatian community.
Social justice groups had earlier voiced concerns that Perkovic's
ultranationalistic lyrics glorified fascism and anti-Semitism.
Members of the Croatian community, both young and old, flocked to the concert.
Media and non-members of the Croatian community were not permitted inside the Croatian Centre's grounds.
Others wore T-shirts adorned with the face of Ante Gotovina, the Croatian commander during Croatia's 1991-1995 war.
"But he's a hero to us," said a Perkovic fan who refused to give his name.
Perkovic has been accused of propagating hatred against Jews and Serbs.
But his fans say he's misunderstood.

There are many people in this world that need to be punished, but I assure you this man is not one of them! He is a very good family friend and the Croatian goverment is accusing him of false war crimes. He was orginally Serbian and when Serbia and Croatia were at war Croatia took over his village. To save his family Goran Pavic fled to Canada with his family and his parents. He became a Canadian citizen and was even fast approved, (in order to operate a transport truck you need to be FBI checked, and then you recieve your fast card). He has lived here peacefully for approximately 10 years and now the Croatian goverment is trying to get him extradited in order to torture him, scaring other former Serbs from ever returning. If he is extradited it is almost guaranteed that he will not return home alive, to his wife and children. The press is not looking into the details of this case to see that this man has been falsely accused. We need attend to the fact that this is a real person, who is honest and loving. He would never conduct the horrible crimes for which he is accused.

I just wonder when Interpol will start picking up Hasim Thaci and Agim Ceku.

Croats started the war by terrorising and killing the Serb population just as they did in WWII. When will Glavas be arrested?

Of course, there are more Serbs for the simple reasons that tey were the aggressors.
(Victor, 11. November 2007 15:20)

There is a more scientific reason too Victor that many (including Serbs) are quick to forget - Serbs were the most numerous ethnic group in the former Yugoslavia by far.

Its thus logical that there would be more Serbs indicted at the Hague.

I honestly think that Victor is an agitator, with nothing but personal vendetta on his mind..

He cloaks his exterior with Superman's cape of Justice, and underneath is a denier, with nothing to do but judge unfairly.

I've come to these posts learning, and sharing my opinion with many people.

But Victor.....Take only .005 percent of what has been replied in all of your comments, and do some independent research..
I'm sure a whole new world of reality will dawn upon you...

As far as the article is concerned, i'll chime in when there's more details.
I can't understand how a man who should have gone through government screenings, can simply be picked up and dragged away because he came to an American border crossing??
If he was such a criminal, then why didn't Canada have the first say in extradition? Why would it be brought up at a US border crossing?

But considering Canada's record with the ARAR case from Syria, i shouldn't be surprised..

I'm glad the murderers of ethnic groups ,rapist ,thief's and suchlike are facing justice after so many years. They thought they could get away with their crimes and pretended to be the victims. Have a good life in the west among their victims and legitimate refugees. I hope those still that are out there live in fear of being discovered. There conscience dose not give them rest or peace and condemns them for all their heinous evil crimes.

«The District Prosecution in Vukovar indicted Pavić in May 2006, along with a group of others, for war crimes allegedly committed between October 1991 and April 1992.»

Another one arrested for heinous crimes, and how many out there, living as if they had done nothing.

I supposed that Ida and her likes ill say that the 38 missing ones are living abroad or hiding somehere, only to incriminate Serbs!

«As long as this also includes war criminals from all groups - Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Croatians AND Serbs.»

At The Hague, there are Muslims. Albanians, Croats and Serbs.

Of course, there are more Serbs for the simple reasons that tey were the aggressors.

Of course, there are more Serbs for the simple reasons that tey were the aggressors.
(Victor, 11. November 2007 15:20)

Interesting reasoning. Would you care to explain why are there any non-Serbs in the Hague if only Serbs were the "aggressors"? Reasonable people would probably agree that it is your actions (rape, murder of civilians, etc) that make you an aggressor, not your national identity.

Michael Seifert
Leon Mugesera
Michael Pawlowski
Stephen Reistetter
Chea Say
Abdul Holyfield
Illandaridevage Kulatunga
Gurpal Singh
Frank Berko
Johann Leprich

I am sure many of you have never heard of them. They are not Serbian, Croatian, Albanian, Bosnian etc....

In case you don’t know any of them they are all accused war criminals who were found living in Canada. In Ontario the Regional War Crimes Unit which names 62 people of various nationalities wanted on arrest warrants due to suspected involvement in crimes against humanity.

Just because someone lives in Canada and is a Canadian citizen does not mean that they can’t be war criminal or if they get a truck drivers license and are loved by their family makes them innocent. Many of these people were caught after living a peaceful life for years in Canada.

Lets keep this all in perspective Goran Pavic is going to be forgotten just like all of these men in a few weeks, he will go through the legal process in the US and Croatia. If he is innocent then he will be released if he guilty then he will probably go to jail for a few years.

He will have a fair trial in Croatia because his name is in the media and his case will be watched.

Is it possible that some of these people are wrongfully accused? Abdul Holyfield has never served in the Uganda Army. He was in Europe at the said time. This information was also availed to the officials dealing with that case. It is true he was convicted on the fraud charges but war crimes that never happened,.

«...the news on war crimes by Mujahedins in Bosnia is not important to comment becuase Serbs were the victims»

Unfortunately, the news present cases of Serbs who have committed war crimes, and not of Mujahidins. Mujahidins certainly committed crimes but again I am sure that Serbs, because they were the attackers, committed more crimes, as suggested by many international reports, and it is normal that more are being arrested on a daily basis.

I understand that it is hard to accept for our Serbian posters, that members of their own nation are being brought to justice almost every month, but is also important that they agree that justice is being served no matter the ethnicity of the perpetrators.

Insinuating that war crimes against Serbs is of no importance for medias, as presented by bmrusila, denotes a lack of objectivity.

Heather,

It is easy to lie to Immigration Canada, and pretend that you did nothing during the war; many have done so, even a Scorpion named Demirovic, and it took years to extradite him to Serbia, and Serbia let him go because the prosecutor did not listen to other Scorpions who saw him shooting 19 members of a same family.

According to me, Goran Pavic has to prove to the Croat Gov. that he did nothing wrong during the war. Canada has nothing to do in his case.

Victor,

I'm not sure which world you live in, but in the modern world it is up to the prosecution to, without a doubt, prove in a court of law that the defendant is guilty of the above mentioned crimes. It's not the other way around.

even in your LaLa land it's "innocent until proven guilty", no?

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=2da0bc86-a0dc-44bb-bffc-1eec85960b41&k=53626

Dragan, why are Serbs like you and Ida so quick to label all Croats as Nazis ????

You seem to have forgotten the skinhead and Neo-Nazi riots recently in Novi Sad.

So much for your tolerant Serbia.

Kate: That is a given. The most these pathetic war criminals would get is 20 years. No matter of how many murders they are convicted of. They should serve their sentences one after the other one when they finally die they can continue serving their time in hell. Now wonder they call it Criminal Justice System the criminal gets most of the justice. The criminal dose not suffer nearly as much what their innocent victims suffered. All of those that support protect and condone the criminals and their acts should pay a very high price.

Those Serbs who committed crimes against the people should be imprisoned for life. How can the republics of Croatia & Serbia ever work together as neighbours when the Serb Gov. wont extradite war criminals like Krajina gen.Mile Novakovic and others. Pavic was part of a criminal enterprise set up by Martic-their aim to kill, plunder & destroy.

To all the Serbs here. In ligt of the countless arrests and allegations of war crimes committed by your kinfolk tell me what is the more likely scenario. 1. the Serbs DO commit crimes all over the former Yugoslavia and are now getting arrested for it, or 2. The Serbs fall victim to some Dr. Evil sort of international conspiracy that successfully manages to convince the whole world of Serb crimes while the Serbs are really just some innocent angels that can't hurt a soul?

Teni I dont get your point.

In fact there isnt much use in making a comment like that which has little to do with the issue being discussed.

If the aim is just to provoke then you are part of the problem and not the solution.

Milan,

What I am saying is simple: if your Serbian friend is not guilty, why is he afraid to answer question about what he has done in 1992? The Prosecutor won't be able to prove that he is guilty!

According to the US Supreme Court, a person does not need to answer any questions so argue that issue with them.

This is more about a Croatian government witchhunt after being embarassed in the Vukovar 3 trials. Pavic had crossed the US border many times as a truck driver so why picked up now?

If transferred and Pavic is tortured into a false confession, your Canadian government will have to pay another $10 million
dollars to his family like they did to Maher Arar.

Milan, T.O.,


Your post:
___
Victor,

I'm not sure which world you live in, but in the modern world it is up to the prosecution to, without a doubt, prove in a court of law that the defendant is guilty of the above mentioned crimes. It's not the other way around.

even in your LaLa land it's "innocent until proven guilty", no?
(Milan T.O., 12. November 2007 15:58)
___


The proper saying is, “innocent unless proven guilty.”

«If transferred and Pavic is tortured into a false confession, your Canadian government will have to pay another $10 million
dollars to his family like they did to Maher Arar.»

The two cases are quite different. Mr Arar is a Canadian, and the alleged war criminal Pavic is not. He is an immigrant and to enter our country, he lied.

Croatia wants to question him about alleged crimes committed against its citizens, and what happens to him if the least of my concerns... and Canada also.

'Mr Arar is a Canadian, and the alleged war criminal Pavic is not.'

Victor, your ignorance is outrageous and staggering. Pavic has Canadian nationality, same as me and (I presume) you. That he emigrated to Canada is immaterial; the fact remains he is a naturalised Canadian, with full rights as a citizen under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and applicable laws. Just like Arar should have had.

Do yourself a favour and read the Globe and Mail for a change before uttering statements like that.

As for how he entered Canada, how do _you_ know he lied? Were you on the Immigration Review Board when he presented himself? Are you personally acquainted with the man? Are you implying all Serbs who enter Canada lie to do so, and are therefore blanket-painting Serbs as liars? Are you from Alberta with an attitude like that?

There are days I really don't miss Canada at all, if that's the way things are now ...

Now, since everyone has had their say on this comment board, I will type my understanding of international law:

1. Pavic was a citizen of SFR Yugoslavia; therefore, he was in the jurisdiction of Yugoslavia from the alleged civil war time of Oct 1991 to April 1992, not the internal Yugoslav socialist republic of Croatia. The federal jurisdiction trumps all authority over any internal jurisdiction. It’s similar to the U.S. federal powers trumping over any internal police jurisdiction in the U.S. No ifs, ands or buts. Would the Michigan State Police be able to ask for the extradition of a person in Europe who was in the jurisdiction of the United States of America army in Michigan during a civil war, which later was given jurisdiction to the independent state of Michigan? Do you know what would the proper procedure be? Filing a complaint with the U.S. Obey the jurisdictions.

2. Does Interpol know the legal jurisdiction of SFR Yugoslavia within today’s Croatia? I’ll tell you, it is up until sometime in April 1992. Why didn’t Interpol tell the Canadian authorities about this? If they did, why would they allow him to leave the country or continue to possess a F.A.S.T. card? Homeland security would be very angry with Canada if this is the scenario. If this is the case then maybe the Canadian authorities don’t have much respect for Croatia from their experience in Croatia for years, especially the September 1993 Medak pocket area. Did Europe know that they are delaying the U.S.-Canada economy? Canada and the U.S. has a difficult time as it is to develop qualified long haul truck drivers. Those who truly qualified are usually former athletes and/or soldiers. There is and will continue to be demand for tens of thousands of long haul professional and owner/operator truck drivers; therefore, abusing the border crossing and its agents with Interpol’s abuse of warrant gives Interpol and Croatia a negative outlook.

3. This will affect Croatia’s tourist and travel industry.

Return to the Bosnian Serb portion of Montenegro, if you want to visit the Adriatic. Take the extra time to travel across the Ratcha bridge into the Serb Republic instead of stressing yourselves on the Krajina expressway.

I am not a candidate for the Srpska Narodna Odbrana. I’m far, far, far more influential than that newspaper membership organization.

«That he emigrated to Canada is immaterial; the fact remains he is a naturalised Canadian, with full rights as a citizen...»

I agree, he has received his citizenship, he is a Canadian, but he also has obligations, not only rights. The Gov. will verify if he indeed lied when he arrived in Canada, and if he did lie, he will lose his citizenship.

Pavic will not be the first Serb to lie about his past in Serbia. There are 26 in the USA, actually in jail, because they lied about their past in Serbia.

I find it interesting that some of the people posting here are so quick to change the subject. A topic around Serbian war criminals suddenly turns into the allegations (that are false) about Thompson singing a song about a concentration camp. To those self proclaimed Serbs, what do you have to hide when you so quickly change the topic?

This guy lives a 5 min walk away from me

on fisher hallman avenue in Kitchener, Ontario

his kids go to school with me

don't believe the garbage he is innocent

This could be just another falsification of Croatian authorities harassing Serbs. From Canadian newspaper (RECORD)

“Casarin said Pavic passed thorough security checks when he was hired and was approved by the U.S. and Canadian border services to hold a FAST pass, which allows commercial truckers to pass through border checks more quickly.
Casarin said Pavic is a dedicated family man and a model employee.
In fact, the same day Casarin learned that Pavic had been detained, he also learned that earlier in the week his colleagues had voted him driver of the year for his safety record and interaction with staff and clients.
”



“Pavic's family said yesterday he had never been a member of any military organization and that he is innocent of the charges.”

“Pavic's family said yesterday he had never been a member of any military organization and that he is innocent of the charges.”

Milan,

do you expect his family to admit that he was in a paramilitary unit, as 1000s and 1000s of young Serbs chose to do during the war?

If Pavic is innocent, his lawyer will prove that he belonged to no paramilitary unit.

Personally, I believe the accusation until he proves that he is a honest man. I so not want to live with war criminals in my country.

«You have no right to say a word about anything what happened over there, and who is terrorist, who did crime blah blah, because you did not see anything.»

FOr that matter, I did not see what was going on in Aushwitz, Dachau and other nazi camps, and I know that 6 million persons perished.

I did not see what was going on in Staline's and Lenine's Russia, and 30 millions died in the Goulag.

I did not see what happened in Turkey, between 1912 and 1922, and 1,5 million people died.

I did not see what went on in Ukrainia, East Timor, Congo, Ruanda, Bosnia, Darfur...

... and I know that genocides were perpetrated there.

A non-biased non-racial commented would have been, "I hope all criminals of all nationalities are caught."

A biased and racial comment sounds like this:
I agree. As long as this also includes war criminals from all groups - Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Croatians AND Serbs.

Emphasis on "muslim" as if all Bosnians are Muslim and as if only Muslims commit crimes. Pay attention that right after that Albanians came in next...than Croats, and last serbs.

Kate you keep saying that you have no Serbian ties..but it is very very hard to believe.
None of these ethnicities are crime-proned, crime happens for economic and sociopolitical reasons..so drop this racist tirade.

I will leave it to the "RECOMMEND" to see if people agree.

Victor one word - Lora, does that mean anything to you.

Your ignorance on the potential for lack of justice in the Croatian system is dangerous. Even the most frevrent HDZ supporter would admit that the justice system is far from perfect. You appear to be saying that Croatian justice is perfect.

"and what happens to him if the least of my concerns... and Canada also"

Yeah, we see you don't give a d@mn if Serbs are falsely accused and tortured. But then why did you read this article if you aren't concerned? Don't you have any Canadian-based forums you participate in? Is there not anything interesting going on in Quebec for you to discuss elsewhere?

I'm going to use the following quote for a while as I think it speaks of Victor's makeup:

“I honestly think that Victor is an agitator, with nothing but personal vendetta on his mind..”
Pijetro, 12. November 2007 02:23

you certainly play fast and loose with legal terms ...

If they wanted to question him, they could have simply sent someone from the embassy to do that. He has been arrested, jailed, and soon to be deported to a country hostile to his ethnicity. Thats questioning?

He did not lie. In fact, how could one lie about something he did not commit? Instead, he was fast tracked into Canada. Well on his way to citizenship, if not already. Even his actions, crossing the heavily secure American border dozens of times over
the past years, attests to his sense of innocence.

"least of (Canada's) concerns.."
This is on its way to becoming identical to the Maher Arar case. That is why it is sympathetic front page news but you've learned nothing. Get your cheque book ready again.

As I said already, this is simply an embarrassed Croatian government impotently lashing out over the Vukovar trial debacle to appease its many extremists.

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=2da0bc86-a0dc-44bb-bffc-1eec85960b41&k=53626

Goran Pavic's lawyer revealed something of interest to everyone who thinks that the U.S. authorities in their treatment of detainees.

Ms Babich said "Mr. Pavic had an averse reaction to a shot he received in prison, and that he has been suffering headaches." (The national Post, Toronto, Nov. 13, 2007).

Victor And All People that havent been in YUGOSLAVIA during WAR
VIctor when you do not care about Serbs and what will happen to this serbian man, why are you even on this disccusion board? You are just trying to be a smart Canadian that spent most of his life in front of TV listening to CNN and all other Brainwashing news about "BAD SERBS" You have no right to say a word about anything what happened over there, and who is terrorist, who did crime blah blah, because you did not see anything.
As far as lying to CANADIAN GOVERNMENT you are 100 % wrong, you do not have any idea what people have to go through before they get approved to come to this country.
NOW all of a sudden AMERICA is trying to get bad guys? where was US before to get GORAN PAVIC if he is not innocent? He's been crosing US border million times.
When you are so smart about immigration why dont you tell me how much of CANADIAN POPULATION is JUST CANADIANS, OR US JUST AMERICANS not counting people that came from all over the world, and made these countries so big and so powerful?

'He will have a fair trial in Croatia [...]'

No, he won't.

Marko thompson is the best he's croatian and u know why he has a thousands people in hes concerts because we call ourselfs winners and we work hard and we win and we call ourself number 1 it doesn't matter we lose in soccer we still call ourself the best and nothing gonna change that

«As long as this also includes war criminals from all groups - Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Croatians AND Serbs.»

At The Hague, there are Muslims. Albanians, Croats and Serbs.

Of course, there are more Serbs for the simple reasons that tey were the aggressors.

I'm glad the murderers of ethnic groups ,rapist ,thief's and suchlike are facing justice after so many years. They thought they could get away with their crimes and pretended to be the victims. Have a good life in the west among their victims and legitimate refugees. I hope those still that are out there live in fear of being discovered. There conscience dose not give them rest or peace and condemns them for all their heinous evil crimes.

«The District Prosecution in Vukovar indicted Pavić in May 2006, along with a group of others, for war crimes allegedly committed between October 1991 and April 1992.»

Another one arrested for heinous crimes, and how many out there, living as if they had done nothing.

I supposed that Ida and her likes ill say that the 38 missing ones are living abroad or hiding somehere, only to incriminate Serbs!

«...the news on war crimes by Mujahedins in Bosnia is not important to comment becuase Serbs were the victims»

Unfortunately, the news present cases of Serbs who have committed war crimes, and not of Mujahidins. Mujahidins certainly committed crimes but again I am sure that Serbs, because they were the attackers, committed more crimes, as suggested by many international reports, and it is normal that more are being arrested on a daily basis.

I understand that it is hard to accept for our Serbian posters, that members of their own nation are being brought to justice almost every month, but is also important that they agree that justice is being served no matter the ethnicity of the perpetrators.

Insinuating that war crimes against Serbs is of no importance for medias, as presented by bmrusila, denotes a lack of objectivity.

To all the Serbs here. In ligt of the countless arrests and allegations of war crimes committed by your kinfolk tell me what is the more likely scenario. 1. the Serbs DO commit crimes all over the former Yugoslavia and are now getting arrested for it, or 2. The Serbs fall victim to some Dr. Evil sort of international conspiracy that successfully manages to convince the whole world of Serb crimes while the Serbs are really just some innocent angels that can't hurt a soul?

And we all know how innocent the Croats in Canada are:

Nov 05, 2007
Croatian rocker Marko Perkovic took to the stage last night at a "secret and private" concert in Norval, west of Brampton; Canada
The performance attracted thousands of members of the Croatian community.
Social justice groups had earlier voiced concerns that Perkovic's
ultranationalistic lyrics glorified fascism and anti-Semitism.
Members of the Croatian community, both young and old, flocked to the concert.
Media and non-members of the Croatian community were not permitted inside the Croatian Centre's grounds.
Others wore T-shirts adorned with the face of Ante Gotovina, the Croatian commander during Croatia's 1991-1995 war.
"But he's a hero to us," said a Perkovic fan who refused to give his name.
Perkovic has been accused of propagating hatred against Jews and Serbs.
But his fans say he's misunderstood.

Lenard: "I'm glad the murderers of ethnic groups ,rapist ,thief's and suchlike are facing justice after so many years."

I agree. As long as this also includes war criminals from all groups - Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Croatians AND Serbs.

A non-biased non-racial commented would have been, "I hope all criminals of all nationalities are caught."

A biased and racial comment sounds like this:
I agree. As long as this also includes war criminals from all groups - Bosnian Muslims, Albanians, Croatians AND Serbs.

Emphasis on "muslim" as if all Bosnians are Muslim and as if only Muslims commit crimes. Pay attention that right after that Albanians came in next...than Croats, and last serbs.

Kate you keep saying that you have no Serbian ties..but it is very very hard to believe.
None of these ethnicities are crime-proned, crime happens for economic and sociopolitical reasons..so drop this racist tirade.

I will leave it to the "RECOMMEND" to see if people agree.

Heather,

It is easy to lie to Immigration Canada, and pretend that you did nothing during the war; many have done so, even a Scorpion named Demirovic, and it took years to extradite him to Serbia, and Serbia let him go because the prosecutor did not listen to other Scorpions who saw him shooting 19 members of a same family.

According to me, Goran Pavic has to prove to the Croat Gov. that he did nothing wrong during the war. Canada has nothing to do in his case.

Hold your horses Lenard, Victor this guy hasnt been convicted yet.

Indeed as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other organisations have pointed out in the past there have been grave concerns about trumped up charges against Serbs in Croatia.

The concerns included trials in absentia, judges showing obvious bias, the Croatian legal system basing charges against Serbs upon the fact that they were in Croatia during the war. The arrest of mistakenly identified Serbs. Then there are the secret lists of Serbs that wouldnt be released to the public - which helped to deter more Serb returnees.
The list of concerns is painfully long.

You know something has to be said here. It seems to me that most Croats think it was a war crime being part of a Serb unit resisting Crotian rule. If the (any) guy comitted war crimes I'm the first one who would like him to go down, but putting on a uniform and taking a gun to protect the place where you live in not a war crime. God knows we have heard this often enough from Croats talking about defending themselves.

Still, the Croatian judicial system is in better shape than it was some years ago. All I want is for everybody to get a fair trial.

Kate,

don't bother. They are all eager to comment on Serbia's war crimes but the next news on war crimes by Mujahedins in Bosnia is not important to comment becuase Serbs were the victims. It seem to me that all Serbs from Croatia are on interpol list. I hope Serbia is going to do something on that.

A fair trial in Croatia? Please. The words 'Croatian Justice' are an oxymoron. All you have to do is look at 60,000 fans doing the sieg heil salute in Zagreb, and that will tell you what kind of people are living in that country. There can be no 'justice' in such a country.
It's almost as absurd as 'albanian justice', which is even more of a joke. Serbs have to live behind barbed wire there, and they talk about having a 'judicial system' there to prosecute criminals. It is not an accident that croats and albanians supported Nazism, it was their choice. The Serbs chose the path of freedom and independence, justice. Nothing much seems to have changed. The most tolerant and multi-ethnic country in the Balkans is Serbia, as the evidence shows, and it has always been that way.

I find it interesting that some of the people posting here are so quick to change the subject. A topic around Serbian war criminals suddenly turns into the allegations (that are false) about Thompson singing a song about a concentration camp. To those self proclaimed Serbs, what do you have to hide when you so quickly change the topic?

Dragan, why are Serbs like you and Ida so quick to label all Croats as Nazis ????

You seem to have forgotten the skinhead and Neo-Nazi riots recently in Novi Sad.

So much for your tolerant Serbia.

Those Serbs who committed crimes against the people should be imprisoned for life. How can the republics of Croatia & Serbia ever work together as neighbours when the Serb Gov. wont extradite war criminals like Krajina gen.Mile Novakovic and others. Pavic was part of a criminal enterprise set up by Martic-their aim to kill, plunder & destroy.

«That he emigrated to Canada is immaterial; the fact remains he is a naturalised Canadian, with full rights as a citizen...»

I agree, he has received his citizenship, he is a Canadian, but he also has obligations, not only rights. The Gov. will verify if he indeed lied when he arrived in Canada, and if he did lie, he will lose his citizenship.

Pavic will not be the first Serb to lie about his past in Serbia. There are 26 in the USA, actually in jail, because they lied about their past in Serbia.

“Pavic's family said yesterday he had never been a member of any military organization and that he is innocent of the charges.”

Milan,

do you expect his family to admit that he was in a paramilitary unit, as 1000s and 1000s of young Serbs chose to do during the war?

If Pavic is innocent, his lawyer will prove that he belonged to no paramilitary unit.

Personally, I believe the accusation until he proves that he is a honest man. I so not want to live with war criminals in my country.

Of course, there are more Serbs for the simple reasons that tey were the aggressors.
(Victor, 11. November 2007 15:20)

There is a more scientific reason too Victor that many (including Serbs) are quick to forget - Serbs were the most numerous ethnic group in the former Yugoslavia by far.

Its thus logical that there would be more Serbs indicted at the Hague.

There are many people in this world that need to be punished, but I assure you this man is not one of them! He is a very good family friend and the Croatian goverment is accusing him of false war crimes. He was orginally Serbian and when Serbia and Croatia were at war Croatia took over his village. To save his family Goran Pavic fled to Canada with his family and his parents. He became a Canadian citizen and was even fast approved, (in order to operate a transport truck you need to be FBI checked, and then you recieve your fast card). He has lived here peacefully for approximately 10 years and now the Croatian goverment is trying to get him extradited in order to torture him, scaring other former Serbs from ever returning. If he is extradited it is almost guaranteed that he will not return home alive, to his wife and children. The press is not looking into the details of this case to see that this man has been falsely accused. We need attend to the fact that this is a real person, who is honest and loving. He would never conduct the horrible crimes for which he is accused.

Kate: That is a given. The most these pathetic war criminals would get is 20 years. No matter of how many murders they are convicted of. They should serve their sentences one after the other one when they finally die they can continue serving their time in hell. Now wonder they call it Criminal Justice System the criminal gets most of the justice. The criminal dose not suffer nearly as much what their innocent victims suffered. All of those that support protect and condone the criminals and their acts should pay a very high price.

Milan,

What I am saying is simple: if your Serbian friend is not guilty, why is he afraid to answer question about what he has done in 1992? The Prosecutor won't be able to prove that he is guilty!

«If transferred and Pavic is tortured into a false confession, your Canadian government will have to pay another $10 million
dollars to his family like they did to Maher Arar.»

The two cases are quite different. Mr Arar is a Canadian, and the alleged war criminal Pavic is not. He is an immigrant and to enter our country, he lied.

Croatia wants to question him about alleged crimes committed against its citizens, and what happens to him if the least of my concerns... and Canada also.

Of course, there are more Serbs for the simple reasons that tey were the aggressors.
(Victor, 11. November 2007 15:20)

Interesting reasoning. Would you care to explain why are there any non-Serbs in the Hague if only Serbs were the "aggressors"? Reasonable people would probably agree that it is your actions (rape, murder of civilians, etc) that make you an aggressor, not your national identity.

I just wonder when Interpol will start picking up Hasim Thaci and Agim Ceku.

Croats started the war by terrorising and killing the Serb population just as they did in WWII. When will Glavas be arrested?

There is a Croat man living free in Croatia who admitted killing around 80 mostly Serb civlians. His name is Tomislav Mercep: http://www.ex-yupress.com/feral/feral45.html

and others in his group were doing the same with orders to liquidate and ethnically cleanse Serb towns in Croatia.

His says his group was just one of many Croat-led groups killing off Serbs in Croatia.

The Hague is NOT interested in him or the men like him who committed genocide on Serb civilians.

They admittedly committed more murders than this one man is accused (perhaps falsely) of committed in a group.

If a single Croat who committed more murders than an entire group of Serbs it shows neither Croatia or the international community is interested in the greater number of Serb civilians who were killed in Croatia.

The dead Croats are most all soldiers and police.

Far more Serb children and women were killed in Croatia.

The census shows that the Croat's population didn't fall at all, but the Serbs did.

The census shows only that the Serbs were ethnically cleansed out of Croatia.

VICTOR said: "Unfortunately, the news present cases of Serbs who have committed war crimes, and not of Mujahidins. Mujahidins certainly committed crimes but again I am sure that Serbs, because they were the attackers, committed more crimes, as suggested by many international reports, and it is normal that more are being arrested on a daily basis."

What “news” and “international reports” are you talking about? Do you mean the fabricated anti-Serbian propaganda?
Even the “naivest Americans” and Western Europeans have started to wake-up.

VICTOR said: "I understand that it is hard to accept for our Serbian posters, that members of their own nation are being brought to justice almost every month"

I’m not a Serb. Are you a Serb?

As to Thompson... Isn’t he the Croatian “national” singer who sung a song glorifying and praising ustasha and Jasenovac?
…Or he is just a “bad Serb” in disguise, who wants to blacken Croats in public’s opinion conscience?
We will even hear this too one day….

I honestly think that Victor is an agitator, with nothing but personal vendetta on his mind..

He cloaks his exterior with Superman's cape of Justice, and underneath is a denier, with nothing to do but judge unfairly.

I've come to these posts learning, and sharing my opinion with many people.

But Victor.....Take only .005 percent of what has been replied in all of your comments, and do some independent research..
I'm sure a whole new world of reality will dawn upon you...

As far as the article is concerned, i'll chime in when there's more details.
I can't understand how a man who should have gone through government screenings, can simply be picked up and dragged away because he came to an American border crossing??
If he was such a criminal, then why didn't Canada have the first say in extradition? Why would it be brought up at a US border crossing?

But considering Canada's record with the ARAR case from Syria, i shouldn't be surprised..

Victor,

I'm not sure which world you live in, but in the modern world it is up to the prosecution to, without a doubt, prove in a court of law that the defendant is guilty of the above mentioned crimes. It's not the other way around.

even in your LaLa land it's "innocent until proven guilty", no?

Teni I dont get your point.

In fact there isnt much use in making a comment like that which has little to do with the issue being discussed.

If the aim is just to provoke then you are part of the problem and not the solution.

Victor one word - Lora, does that mean anything to you.

Your ignorance on the potential for lack of justice in the Croatian system is dangerous. Even the most frevrent HDZ supporter would admit that the justice system is far from perfect. You appear to be saying that Croatian justice is perfect.

According to the US Supreme Court, a person does not need to answer any questions so argue that issue with them.

This is more about a Croatian government witchhunt after being embarassed in the Vukovar 3 trials. Pavic had crossed the US border many times as a truck driver so why picked up now?

If transferred and Pavic is tortured into a false confession, your Canadian government will have to pay another $10 million
dollars to his family like they did to Maher Arar.

Milan, T.O.,


Your post:
___
Victor,

I'm not sure which world you live in, but in the modern world it is up to the prosecution to, without a doubt, prove in a court of law that the defendant is guilty of the above mentioned crimes. It's not the other way around.

even in your LaLa land it's "innocent until proven guilty", no?
(Milan T.O., 12. November 2007 15:58)
___


The proper saying is, “innocent unless proven guilty.”

"and what happens to him if the least of my concerns... and Canada also"

Yeah, we see you don't give a d@mn if Serbs are falsely accused and tortured. But then why did you read this article if you aren't concerned? Don't you have any Canadian-based forums you participate in? Is there not anything interesting going on in Quebec for you to discuss elsewhere?

I'm going to use the following quote for a while as I think it speaks of Victor's makeup:

“I honestly think that Victor is an agitator, with nothing but personal vendetta on his mind..”
Pijetro, 12. November 2007 02:23

you certainly play fast and loose with legal terms ...

If they wanted to question him, they could have simply sent someone from the embassy to do that. He has been arrested, jailed, and soon to be deported to a country hostile to his ethnicity. Thats questioning?

He did not lie. In fact, how could one lie about something he did not commit? Instead, he was fast tracked into Canada. Well on his way to citizenship, if not already. Even his actions, crossing the heavily secure American border dozens of times over
the past years, attests to his sense of innocence.

"least of (Canada's) concerns.."
This is on its way to becoming identical to the Maher Arar case. That is why it is sympathetic front page news but you've learned nothing. Get your cheque book ready again.

As I said already, this is simply an embarrassed Croatian government impotently lashing out over the Vukovar trial debacle to appease its many extremists.

'Mr Arar is a Canadian, and the alleged war criminal Pavic is not.'

Victor, your ignorance is outrageous and staggering. Pavic has Canadian nationality, same as me and (I presume) you. That he emigrated to Canada is immaterial; the fact remains he is a naturalised Canadian, with full rights as a citizen under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and applicable laws. Just like Arar should have had.

Do yourself a favour and read the Globe and Mail for a change before uttering statements like that.

As for how he entered Canada, how do _you_ know he lied? Were you on the Immigration Review Board when he presented himself? Are you personally acquainted with the man? Are you implying all Serbs who enter Canada lie to do so, and are therefore blanket-painting Serbs as liars? Are you from Alberta with an attitude like that?

There are days I really don't miss Canada at all, if that's the way things are now ...

This guy lives a 5 min walk away from me

on fisher hallman avenue in Kitchener, Ontario

his kids go to school with me

don't believe the garbage he is innocent

Now, since everyone has had their say on this comment board, I will type my understanding of international law:

1. Pavic was a citizen of SFR Yugoslavia; therefore, he was in the jurisdiction of Yugoslavia from the alleged civil war time of Oct 1991 to April 1992, not the internal Yugoslav socialist republic of Croatia. The federal jurisdiction trumps all authority over any internal jurisdiction. It’s similar to the U.S. federal powers trumping over any internal police jurisdiction in the U.S. No ifs, ands or buts. Would the Michigan State Police be able to ask for the extradition of a person in Europe who was in the jurisdiction of the United States of America army in Michigan during a civil war, which later was given jurisdiction to the independent state of Michigan? Do you know what would the proper procedure be? Filing a complaint with the U.S. Obey the jurisdictions.

2. Does Interpol know the legal jurisdiction of SFR Yugoslavia within today’s Croatia? I’ll tell you, it is up until sometime in April 1992. Why didn’t Interpol tell the Canadian authorities about this? If they did, why would they allow him to leave the country or continue to possess a F.A.S.T. card? Homeland security would be very angry with Canada if this is the scenario. If this is the case then maybe the Canadian authorities don’t have much respect for Croatia from their experience in Croatia for years, especially the September 1993 Medak pocket area. Did Europe know that they are delaying the U.S.-Canada economy? Canada and the U.S. has a difficult time as it is to develop qualified long haul truck drivers. Those who truly qualified are usually former athletes and/or soldiers. There is and will continue to be demand for tens of thousands of long haul professional and owner/operator truck drivers; therefore, abusing the border crossing and its agents with Interpol’s abuse of warrant gives Interpol and Croatia a negative outlook.

3. This will affect Croatia’s tourist and travel industry.

Return to the Bosnian Serb portion of Montenegro, if you want to visit the Adriatic. Take the extra time to travel across the Ratcha bridge into the Serb Republic instead of stressing yourselves on the Krajina expressway.

I am not a candidate for the Srpska Narodna Odbrana. I’m far, far, far more influential than that newspaper membership organization.

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=2da0bc86-a0dc-44bb-bffc-1eec85960b41&k=53626

This could be just another falsification of Croatian authorities harassing Serbs. From Canadian newspaper (RECORD)

“Casarin said Pavic passed thorough security checks when he was hired and was approved by the U.S. and Canadian border services to hold a FAST pass, which allows commercial truckers to pass through border checks more quickly.
Casarin said Pavic is a dedicated family man and a model employee.
In fact, the same day Casarin learned that Pavic had been detained, he also learned that earlier in the week his colleagues had voted him driver of the year for his safety record and interaction with staff and clients.
”



“Pavic's family said yesterday he had never been a member of any military organization and that he is innocent of the charges.”

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=2da0bc86-a0dc-44bb-bffc-1eec85960b41&k=53626

Goran Pavic's lawyer revealed something of interest to everyone who thinks that the U.S. authorities in their treatment of detainees.

Ms Babich said "Mr. Pavic had an averse reaction to a shot he received in prison, and that he has been suffering headaches." (The national Post, Toronto, Nov. 13, 2007).

Victor And All People that havent been in YUGOSLAVIA during WAR
VIctor when you do not care about Serbs and what will happen to this serbian man, why are you even on this disccusion board? You are just trying to be a smart Canadian that spent most of his life in front of TV listening to CNN and all other Brainwashing news about "BAD SERBS" You have no right to say a word about anything what happened over there, and who is terrorist, who did crime blah blah, because you did not see anything.
As far as lying to CANADIAN GOVERNMENT you are 100 % wrong, you do not have any idea what people have to go through before they get approved to come to this country.
NOW all of a sudden AMERICA is trying to get bad guys? where was US before to get GORAN PAVIC if he is not innocent? He's been crosing US border million times.
When you are so smart about immigration why dont you tell me how much of CANADIAN POPULATION is JUST CANADIANS, OR US JUST AMERICANS not counting people that came from all over the world, and made these countries so big and so powerful?

Michael Seifert
Leon Mugesera
Michael Pawlowski
Stephen Reistetter
Chea Say
Abdul Holyfield
Illandaridevage Kulatunga
Gurpal Singh
Frank Berko
Johann Leprich

I am sure many of you have never heard of them. They are not Serbian, Croatian, Albanian, Bosnian etc....

In case you don’t know any of them they are all accused war criminals who were found living in Canada. In Ontario the Regional War Crimes Unit which names 62 people of various nationalities wanted on arrest warrants due to suspected involvement in crimes against humanity.

Just because someone lives in Canada and is a Canadian citizen does not mean that they can’t be war criminal or if they get a truck drivers license and are loved by their family makes them innocent. Many of these people were caught after living a peaceful life for years in Canada.

Lets keep this all in perspective Goran Pavic is going to be forgotten just like all of these men in a few weeks, he will go through the legal process in the US and Croatia. If he is innocent then he will be released if he guilty then he will probably go to jail for a few years.

He will have a fair trial in Croatia because his name is in the media and his case will be watched.

«You have no right to say a word about anything what happened over there, and who is terrorist, who did crime blah blah, because you did not see anything.»

FOr that matter, I did not see what was going on in Aushwitz, Dachau and other nazi camps, and I know that 6 million persons perished.

I did not see what was going on in Staline's and Lenine's Russia, and 30 millions died in the Goulag.

I did not see what happened in Turkey, between 1912 and 1922, and 1,5 million people died.

I did not see what went on in Ukrainia, East Timor, Congo, Ruanda, Bosnia, Darfur...

... and I know that genocides were perpetrated there.

'He will have a fair trial in Croatia [...]'

No, he won't.

Marko thompson is the best he's croatian and u know why he has a thousands people in hes concerts because we call ourselfs winners and we work hard and we win and we call ourself number 1 it doesn't matter we lose in soccer we still call ourself the best and nothing gonna change that

Is it possible that some of these people are wrongfully accused? Abdul Holyfield has never served in the Uganda Army. He was in Europe at the said time. This information was also availed to the officials dealing with that case. It is true he was convicted on the fraud charges but war crimes that never happened,.