Greece urges united EU Kosovo stand

the Greek know very well what type of illusions is going through the heads of some Albanians...

they know that there must not be any little bit of reward for terrorist activities...

and it´s good that way.

EA, It is increasingly frustrating to read your comments. You speak with a lot of emotion and no substance.
How can you compare the break up of Yugoslavia to the Break up of Serbia?

Yugoslavia was made up of self governing republics. Slovenia went without a war so how can that be humiliating to Serbia?
Serbia didn't even try to stop it. If they did, they would've gone in there with live ammunition instead of rubber bullets. The Yugoslav army simply pulled back.

Montenegro didn't separate with blood shed. Serbia didn't go to war with them to stop it. No military defeat there and no intervention to stop it.

Macedonia went their own way without Serbia going through the hoops trying to stop that.
What humiliation are you talking about here?

The only two republics which ended up in a war were Croatia and Bosnia. That's because of the bad treatment the Serbs were getting from the hostile new governments of those two republics. Serbian interests were being violated and despite you trying to tell us that it was only the Serbs doing the killings it simply was not.

Kosovo on the other hand has no status of a republic and is only a province of a sovereign country. What Kosovo is being offered now is more that they ever had. A province does not have the same rights and privileges as states do.
The only humiliation that has happened is the west selling out it's own democratic beliefs by forcing a sovereign country to give up it's territories.

Serbia was not humiliated but had great injustice done against it.

Real Canadian,

You presume that you speak for the whole world, arrogant to say the least. I am a Canadian and I agree with Peggy and not you or EA, hence your “whole world” remark goes out the window. As far as you being a real Canadian I hardly think so, a real Canadian would not make remarks like you do, and that is why Canadians are famous the world over, they seldom take sides and they never presume to speak for the whole world.

Jovan,

"they know that there must not be any little bit of reward for terrorist activities... "

You got it right there especially when refering the State terror of Serbia against the Kosovar Albanians.

If a state initiate a war and it is defeated it needs to live up with the consequences even that would mean HUMILIATION.

In addition to this argument there is a question for the Serbian panel what did the Serbian government to stop the break up of Yugoslavia? Did Serbia stopped the break up of Yugoslavia at the end? Was it a HUMILIATION for Serbia following the Greek logic? Yes? Thank you very much!

KS, Kosovo is a Serbian Province.. even if Kosovo does get broken up, the north is not going anywhere but staying part of Serbia.. It would be you guys who are breaking off and won't be allowed to join any other country. It really is as simple as that.

Peggy,

Your comments are like a tragic-commedy story. These are typically Serbian "excuses" "The only two republics which ended up in a war were Croatia and Bosnia. That's because of the bad treatment the Serbs were getting from the hostile new governments of those two republics. Serbian interests were being violated and despite you trying to tell us that it was only the Serbs doing the killings it simply was not.

I would listen with a good will if you would have put the blame on the Serbian leadership of Slobodan Milloshevic and other but trying to "justify" the war its absolutely pathetic.

Actually if I were a Serb I would have expected much more from the Greeks, to say at least something similar to what Cyprus sad. Apparently Greece doesn't have any special interest in siding with Serbia when it comes to follow its European co-members. Now I am going to use one of the favorite words that most of Serbs here use which is: "Obviously" even Greece will follow the majority of Europe when it comes to recognize Kosova's independence.
(miri, 10. November 2007 03:31)

Miri
What more do they need to say. Once Cyprus announced that it will VETO any EU resolution in support for Kosovos supposed independence. It means that Greece is just echoing an earlier statement. As was Ireland. Kosovo will always be Serbia. CCCC

peggy,

where do you live???the whole world knows who's the one to blame for the 4 (four)yougoslav wars!!!read,read and then read some more!!!truth might hurt but at least it will set you free

Real Canadian and EA
Aha and albanians are a Ghandi type organisation. Everyone intelligent knows the truth and that is that Serbs were protecting their territory. NO MORE NO LESS.

EA and RealCanadian....

Don't disclaim Peggy.
What she wrote was correct, but perhaps wasn't wrapped up completely.

EA, i've also read your postings, and agree with Peggy on your emotional replies..
Truly, if the Serbian minorities in Croatia and Bosnia felt secure in the first place, none of this would have happened..For it was Yugoslavia that somewhat held the Serb minorities at safety since WW2..
So from the Serb perspective, what happens when your grandfather's killers declare independence without remorse from her country's previous crimes?
Add to that, losing your job, being on a liquidation list, add the fuel that the Croatian diaspora poured on the fire, sprinkle a lot of kerosene that Milosevic poured, and a dash of American grease on the fire, and the cocktail was ready..
But you need to get rid of the illusion of the Serbs waking up one morning and going berserk..

We could sit down and have coffees for the next two hours, and it wouldn't be enough to explain the whole depth of the mess...

RealCanadian...I would like a few links to your wealth and depth of knowledge from all the wars in the former YU..Because there's several thousand Serbian refugees in Canada that need to be re-educated..

Oh yeah, and no CNN links please.

Real Canadian,
I suggest you read and read and read for you are very poorly informed.
Please stop with the "whole world knows bull". By the whole world do you mean the US, Great Britain and few more American allies? You are seriously discounting the rest of the world.
Try reading a newspaper from Japan or China and read some of the articles written by prominent diplomats and journalists.
Try listening to a great intellectual like Noam Chomsky and learn something other than what Pack media constantly serves in the mainstream news of some countries with vested interests to see Serbs fail.

I live in the same world as you do, but my eyes and ears are wide open to the facts not readily presented in my country.
I would appreciate a little less of a condescending tone and a little more substance in your argument.
No my friend, the whole world doesn't agree with the picture painted by the great propaganda machine in the US.
Read John Pilger's articles and Gregory Clark's articles on the subject. Gregory Clark is a formed diplomat and a vice president of the Akita University in Japan. He is no fool and his views are different from the "whole world's".

EA im not really sure what you have tried to say because clearly you have some sort of anti-Serbian thing going on and wish to spread the hate which is backed up by CNN and western media so it MUST be true.

What my good man above explained to you about Srpska Krajina and Srpska Bosnia is exactly true, we sent troops to protect our people these people had no intention of living under the newest Croatia or the Islamic republic Alija wanted.

As for Kosovo its completely different situation where Serbs have had NATO and the US decide whats happening in their country. I mean lets face it there will never be peace with people who support sepratism, terrorism, crime destroying of Serbian history to make Kosovo more Albanian, you even made a new word "Kosova" to try and make it less Serbian!

because you won´t be allowed to do that.

simple answer,isn´t it?

you seem to have a poor remembrance, EA.

since you are so good at it, just tell us, who started the conflict by killing postmen or policemen, both, of serbian and also of albanian ethnicity, just because they were loyal citizens?

do you wanna deny that this is called terrorism?

just answer that question, so that everybody can see what you are standing for!
could be quite interesting the readers!

instead of philosophizing about "state terrorism" you should better start feeling ashamed for your deliberate ignorance of human suffering on both sides, serbian and albanian.

but that doesn´t even come to your mind, right? you want a greater Albania...

I´ll tell you something...

dream on...

sooner or later those Albanians who cannot speak up now will show up...and those ceku´s and taci´s will end up where they belong: behind bars.

"Yugoslavia was made up of self governing republics. Slovenia went without a war so how can that be humiliating to Serbia? "

Slovenia went without a war???
Let me enlighten you, Peggy=Princip=Peter=Kate,
Slovenian teritorial defence force were ready and baricaded the military barracks ov JNA and left them without food and water, and after 3 days they SURRENDERED and the conflict was over.
Milosevic (butcher of Balkans) had no guts to go any further, so he gave up Slovenia, but started in Croatia since he had cronies there in Milan Martic etc.
In Bosnia he used Karadjic and Mladic, and in Kosova/o he did not have much of the support since most people living there were Albanians.
So he used brutal force to crush any resistence.
There was a guy, who stood up to his special police, his name was Mr. Adem Jashari.
After quite a long time under siege, Serbian police went in and killed him and over 40 members of his family, women and children included.
There goes your praise for Serbian way. Shame on you!!!

Actually if I were a Serb I would have expected much more from the Greeks, to say at least something similar to what Cyprus sad. Apparently Greece doesn't have any special interest in siding with Serbia when it comes to follow its European co-members. Now I am going to use one of the favorite words that most of Serbs here use which is: "Obviously" even Greece will follow the majority of Europe when it comes to recognize Kosova's independence.

Peggy you got it all wrong on Slovenia. Actually than so called Yug army was humiliated by Slovenians. All military bases were sourrounded and the water and any delivieries of goods was stopped. actually they had to give uo and run with tail between their legs. So much for your knowledge about Slovenia. Yes , there was a war but very quick one, because Slevenians were ready to tackle the Yug. army in no time.
By the way, who cares what Greece thinks.

"Albania has a better claim since Kosova was part of Northen Albanian prior to 1912, but KEEP DREAMING.

Kosova is Kosovars!
(KS, 11. November 2007 08:24)"


quite amusing, KS. but far from the truth!

"John Wilkes is the world’s foremost authority in Illyrian studies. In fact, his 1992 book has not been refuted in over 15 years. No other scholar has published a critical work of Wilkes’ monumental study, based on skeletal evidence and archaeological work done in Albania and ex-Yugoslavia in the late 1980s. Wilkes has the last word. Lubonja and Vehbiu inform us that Albanian scholarship under Hoxha even postulated Slavic origins for the Albanians as early as the 1950s, while scholarship was still free in Albania. Bulgarian scholar Selishev’s maps confirm a large Slav-speaking presnce showing 1/3 of Albanian toponyms to be Slavic and to which Coon attributes to Serbs a once large Serb population in Albania. A map of Europe in 814 AD, confirms it by showing Serbs living from Dalmatia & BiH throughout all of interior Albania, Epirus and the Peloponnese (while Bulgarians were situated north of the Danube).



After explaining a version of the Caucasian theory, Malcolm stated bluntly that Albanian-Illyrian continuity was exclusively based in linguistics. Wilkes then discusses the impossibility of Illyrian-Albanian ethnic & linguistic unity: first by providing skeletal evidence showing that modern Albanians and Illyrians were physically two different peoples; second: by discussing the unbridgeable centum/satem linguistic gap that nullifies the possibility of the continuity between Albanian and Illyrian languages. I pointed out that many Illyrian names have cognates and meaning in Serbian, as well as Albanian. Wilkes, as well as Malcolm (inadvertently) and the two genetic studies have all showed the weakness and inconsistent results that come with using linguistics to identify descent.



An overwhelming body of fairly objective evidence has refuted the Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis and no credible evidence at all in its favor remains. All that does actually remain is to provide a theory of Shqipetar ethnogenesis that incorporates (not just linguistics with all its erroneous conclusions) but more insightful disciplines. In fact any theory that would incorporate several disciplines will automatically be more credible than the Albanian-Illyrian myth. Toponymic data, anthropometrical data and other information never considered before will be valuable contributions to a more realistic theory."
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7681/perpjekja_4.html

I wanted to inform you of the view of Major General (ret'd) Lewis MacKenzie.
He told me that Kosovo should be divided in two with
the North going to Serbia and the south Albanian-controlled. He wants to avoid a greater Albania emerging.

I wanted to inform you of the view of Major General (ret'd) Lewis MacKenzie.
He told me that Kosovo should be divided in two with
the North going to Serbia and the south Albanian-controlled. He wants to avoid a greater Albania emerging.
(Nick Nikopoulos, 10. November 2007 13:02)

In that case we'll take Presheva valley and we'll join Albanian..why not? If N.Mitrovica joins Serbia why can't we do the same?

This Greek is quite right (going back on topic). A long term solution is necessary, and if that means Kosovo independence then so be it, but unilateral declaration just doesn't seem to paint a picture of lifelong stability in the Balkans. He is also quite right when it comes to the mentality of the people in the Balkans, if you humiliate the one and completely empower the other, we have seen what this sort of Nationalism has done in the Balkans. I agree with him wholeheartedly.

We can sit here and justify our opinions and the "obvious", but at the end of the day, something will have to be agreed upon to appease these arrogant and stubborn Belgrade and Pristina leaders, or simply put, there will be no stability in the region.

Lazer, let me enlighten YOU.
Belgrade did not want a war with Slovenia so the Yugoslav army was ordered to pull back.
Now the fact that the Slovenians wanted to flex a bit of muscle and pretend they were taking on the Yugoslav army is something that made them feel better.
Why on earth would Yugoslav army be afraid of Slovenia and then engage in a war with Croatia which was very well supplied with weapons, planes, tanks etc.?
Those soldiers that were held hostage for a few days is not an indication of a win against Serbia. That was just a silly stunt to try to make themselves look like winners without actually fighting anyone.
Anyone with any intelligence would see that you don't lose a war simply because of a few hostages.
We all know the reason Serbia went to war with Croatia and Bosnia, and they weren't afraid of some of them being taken as hostages.

KS, Kosovo is a Serbian Province.. even if Kosovo does get broken up, the north is not going anywhere but staying part of Serbia.. It would be you guys who are breaking off and won't be allowed to join any other country. It really is as simple as that.
(Milan T.O., 10. November 2007 21:07)

Albania has a better claim since Kosova was part of Northen Albanian prior to 1912, but KEEP DREAMING.

Kosova is Kosovars!

Canadian (if you say so) and the rest of the brethren,

I completely agree that Canadians are well known for their peace and wisdom. Just to refresh your memory we did participate in the Kosovo war http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/kosovo.html
If somebody is willing to read about wars in Yugoslavia there is a simple solution internet search keywords:
1) Slovenia War
2) Croatia War
3) Bosnia War
4) Kosovo War
If 90%+ of the articles blame Serbia AKA Yugoslavia AKA JNA then sorry but the truth can’t be hidden...Peace and love
Proud to be Canadian
Happy Remembrance Day

Lazer,

let me enlighten you regarding the Slovene war. The JNA in June 1991 was under the command of Konrad Kolsek (Slovene), Velkjo Kadijevic (a Croat), Stane Brovat (Slovene) and Blagoje Adzic (Serb). Hardly an army that was hell bent on imposing Serbian hegemony when its officer corps general command were multiethnic and staunch communists. Kadijevic overruled Brovat and Adzic who wanted to send in the JNA proper and literally crush Slovenia. Kadijevic's approach of sending in lightly armed Bosnian and K-Albanian conscripts in the hope that the Slovene TO and police would backdown, backfired. When the JNA conscripts threw down their arms and surrenderd en masse, the JNA changed tack and began making plans on deploying 50,000 eilte troops, among them paratrooper regiments the Guards who were stationed in Nis. Just as the Guards and paratroopers were travelling on the Belgrade-Zagreb autobahn on their way to Slovenia, Milosevic gave the orders for the JNA to return to barracks in Split, Zagreb, Belgrade and Sarajevo. The reasons given were.

1) if war broke out in Croatia (which it eventually did) over half of the JNA would have been trapped in Slovenia, engaing in a guerilla war with the Slovene TO and facing outright civil disobedience from the Slovene population.

2) No significant Serb population resident in Slovenia, therefore no support from populace.

3) A fierce reaction from Slovenia in the face of an all out attack by the JNA, would result in anarchy leaving the JNA no alternative but to declare marshal law. Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo would simultenously explode plunging Yugoslavia into all out anarchy and war in which the JNA and Serb police would be no position to counteract opening the possibility to foreign intervention.

4) Croatia and Bosnia held the military industrial complex of the JNA and was more easily to defend both geographically and politically.

You can see why Slobbo acted as he did. an all out war on Slovenia from a military point of view would have been unfeasable. Slovenia's geographical location coupled with a hostile Croatia would have made it impossible for the JNA to conduct any kind of long term military operations.

To peggy and Niall D.

Try to enlighten yourself, both of you.
First of all Gen. Veljko Kadijevic was not a Croat but a Serb.
Secon, then JNA could not fight Slovenia, 'cause it had no land connection, other then going through Croatia. To go to real war with Slovenia, it would ignite Croatia and Serbia would loose both wars.
Their timing was right, so they pulled back.
Its true that they send Bosnian and albanian conscripts, but Albanian soldiers were the first ones to surrender since they did not want to die for Serbia (good point). They were still send south to Macedonia and faced the Military Courts of miloshevic's Army.

Jovan,

"they know that there must not be any little bit of reward for terrorist activities... "

You got it right there especially when refering the State terror of Serbia against the Kosovar Albanians.

If a state initiate a war and it is defeated it needs to live up with the consequences even that would mean HUMILIATION.

In addition to this argument there is a question for the Serbian panel what did the Serbian government to stop the break up of Yugoslavia? Did Serbia stopped the break up of Yugoslavia at the end? Was it a HUMILIATION for Serbia following the Greek logic? Yes? Thank you very much!

the Greek know very well what type of illusions is going through the heads of some Albanians...

they know that there must not be any little bit of reward for terrorist activities...

and it´s good that way.

Peggy,

Your comments are like a tragic-commedy story. These are typically Serbian "excuses" "The only two republics which ended up in a war were Croatia and Bosnia. That's because of the bad treatment the Serbs were getting from the hostile new governments of those two republics. Serbian interests were being violated and despite you trying to tell us that it was only the Serbs doing the killings it simply was not.

I would listen with a good will if you would have put the blame on the Serbian leadership of Slobodan Milloshevic and other but trying to "justify" the war its absolutely pathetic.

peggy,

where do you live???the whole world knows who's the one to blame for the 4 (four)yougoslav wars!!!read,read and then read some more!!!truth might hurt but at least it will set you free

EA, It is increasingly frustrating to read your comments. You speak with a lot of emotion and no substance.
How can you compare the break up of Yugoslavia to the Break up of Serbia?

Yugoslavia was made up of self governing republics. Slovenia went without a war so how can that be humiliating to Serbia?
Serbia didn't even try to stop it. If they did, they would've gone in there with live ammunition instead of rubber bullets. The Yugoslav army simply pulled back.

Montenegro didn't separate with blood shed. Serbia didn't go to war with them to stop it. No military defeat there and no intervention to stop it.

Macedonia went their own way without Serbia going through the hoops trying to stop that.
What humiliation are you talking about here?

The only two republics which ended up in a war were Croatia and Bosnia. That's because of the bad treatment the Serbs were getting from the hostile new governments of those two republics. Serbian interests were being violated and despite you trying to tell us that it was only the Serbs doing the killings it simply was not.

Kosovo on the other hand has no status of a republic and is only a province of a sovereign country. What Kosovo is being offered now is more that they ever had. A province does not have the same rights and privileges as states do.
The only humiliation that has happened is the west selling out it's own democratic beliefs by forcing a sovereign country to give up it's territories.

Serbia was not humiliated but had great injustice done against it.

"Yugoslavia was made up of self governing republics. Slovenia went without a war so how can that be humiliating to Serbia? "

Slovenia went without a war???
Let me enlighten you, Peggy=Princip=Peter=Kate,
Slovenian teritorial defence force were ready and baricaded the military barracks ov JNA and left them without food and water, and after 3 days they SURRENDERED and the conflict was over.
Milosevic (butcher of Balkans) had no guts to go any further, so he gave up Slovenia, but started in Croatia since he had cronies there in Milan Martic etc.
In Bosnia he used Karadjic and Mladic, and in Kosova/o he did not have much of the support since most people living there were Albanians.
So he used brutal force to crush any resistence.
There was a guy, who stood up to his special police, his name was Mr. Adem Jashari.
After quite a long time under siege, Serbian police went in and killed him and over 40 members of his family, women and children included.
There goes your praise for Serbian way. Shame on you!!!

Real Canadian and EA
Aha and albanians are a Ghandi type organisation. Everyone intelligent knows the truth and that is that Serbs were protecting their territory. NO MORE NO LESS.

Real Canadian,

You presume that you speak for the whole world, arrogant to say the least. I am a Canadian and I agree with Peggy and not you or EA, hence your “whole world” remark goes out the window. As far as you being a real Canadian I hardly think so, a real Canadian would not make remarks like you do, and that is why Canadians are famous the world over, they seldom take sides and they never presume to speak for the whole world.

Actually if I were a Serb I would have expected much more from the Greeks, to say at least something similar to what Cyprus sad. Apparently Greece doesn't have any special interest in siding with Serbia when it comes to follow its European co-members. Now I am going to use one of the favorite words that most of Serbs here use which is: "Obviously" even Greece will follow the majority of Europe when it comes to recognize Kosova's independence.

Real Canadian,
I suggest you read and read and read for you are very poorly informed.
Please stop with the "whole world knows bull". By the whole world do you mean the US, Great Britain and few more American allies? You are seriously discounting the rest of the world.
Try reading a newspaper from Japan or China and read some of the articles written by prominent diplomats and journalists.
Try listening to a great intellectual like Noam Chomsky and learn something other than what Pack media constantly serves in the mainstream news of some countries with vested interests to see Serbs fail.

I live in the same world as you do, but my eyes and ears are wide open to the facts not readily presented in my country.
I would appreciate a little less of a condescending tone and a little more substance in your argument.
No my friend, the whole world doesn't agree with the picture painted by the great propaganda machine in the US.
Read John Pilger's articles and Gregory Clark's articles on the subject. Gregory Clark is a formed diplomat and a vice president of the Akita University in Japan. He is no fool and his views are different from the "whole world's".

Peggy you got it all wrong on Slovenia. Actually than so called Yug army was humiliated by Slovenians. All military bases were sourrounded and the water and any delivieries of goods was stopped. actually they had to give uo and run with tail between their legs. So much for your knowledge about Slovenia. Yes , there was a war but very quick one, because Slevenians were ready to tackle the Yug. army in no time.
By the way, who cares what Greece thinks.

I wanted to inform you of the view of Major General (ret'd) Lewis MacKenzie.
He told me that Kosovo should be divided in two with
the North going to Serbia and the south Albanian-controlled. He wants to avoid a greater Albania emerging.

EA im not really sure what you have tried to say because clearly you have some sort of anti-Serbian thing going on and wish to spread the hate which is backed up by CNN and western media so it MUST be true.

What my good man above explained to you about Srpska Krajina and Srpska Bosnia is exactly true, we sent troops to protect our people these people had no intention of living under the newest Croatia or the Islamic republic Alija wanted.

As for Kosovo its completely different situation where Serbs have had NATO and the US decide whats happening in their country. I mean lets face it there will never be peace with people who support sepratism, terrorism, crime destroying of Serbian history to make Kosovo more Albanian, you even made a new word "Kosova" to try and make it less Serbian!

you seem to have a poor remembrance, EA.

since you are so good at it, just tell us, who started the conflict by killing postmen or policemen, both, of serbian and also of albanian ethnicity, just because they were loyal citizens?

do you wanna deny that this is called terrorism?

just answer that question, so that everybody can see what you are standing for!
could be quite interesting the readers!

instead of philosophizing about "state terrorism" you should better start feeling ashamed for your deliberate ignorance of human suffering on both sides, serbian and albanian.

but that doesn´t even come to your mind, right? you want a greater Albania...

I´ll tell you something...

dream on...

sooner or later those Albanians who cannot speak up now will show up...and those ceku´s and taci´s will end up where they belong: behind bars.

I wanted to inform you of the view of Major General (ret'd) Lewis MacKenzie.
He told me that Kosovo should be divided in two with
the North going to Serbia and the south Albanian-controlled. He wants to avoid a greater Albania emerging.
(Nick Nikopoulos, 10. November 2007 13:02)

In that case we'll take Presheva valley and we'll join Albanian..why not? If N.Mitrovica joins Serbia why can't we do the same?

EA and RealCanadian....

Don't disclaim Peggy.
What she wrote was correct, but perhaps wasn't wrapped up completely.

EA, i've also read your postings, and agree with Peggy on your emotional replies..
Truly, if the Serbian minorities in Croatia and Bosnia felt secure in the first place, none of this would have happened..For it was Yugoslavia that somewhat held the Serb minorities at safety since WW2..
So from the Serb perspective, what happens when your grandfather's killers declare independence without remorse from her country's previous crimes?
Add to that, losing your job, being on a liquidation list, add the fuel that the Croatian diaspora poured on the fire, sprinkle a lot of kerosene that Milosevic poured, and a dash of American grease on the fire, and the cocktail was ready..
But you need to get rid of the illusion of the Serbs waking up one morning and going berserk..

We could sit down and have coffees for the next two hours, and it wouldn't be enough to explain the whole depth of the mess...

RealCanadian...I would like a few links to your wealth and depth of knowledge from all the wars in the former YU..Because there's several thousand Serbian refugees in Canada that need to be re-educated..

Oh yeah, and no CNN links please.

Actually if I were a Serb I would have expected much more from the Greeks, to say at least something similar to what Cyprus sad. Apparently Greece doesn't have any special interest in siding with Serbia when it comes to follow its European co-members. Now I am going to use one of the favorite words that most of Serbs here use which is: "Obviously" even Greece will follow the majority of Europe when it comes to recognize Kosova's independence.
(miri, 10. November 2007 03:31)

Miri
What more do they need to say. Once Cyprus announced that it will VETO any EU resolution in support for Kosovos supposed independence. It means that Greece is just echoing an earlier statement. As was Ireland. Kosovo will always be Serbia. CCCC

because you won´t be allowed to do that.

simple answer,isn´t it?

This Greek is quite right (going back on topic). A long term solution is necessary, and if that means Kosovo independence then so be it, but unilateral declaration just doesn't seem to paint a picture of lifelong stability in the Balkans. He is also quite right when it comes to the mentality of the people in the Balkans, if you humiliate the one and completely empower the other, we have seen what this sort of Nationalism has done in the Balkans. I agree with him wholeheartedly.

We can sit here and justify our opinions and the "obvious", but at the end of the day, something will have to be agreed upon to appease these arrogant and stubborn Belgrade and Pristina leaders, or simply put, there will be no stability in the region.

KS, Kosovo is a Serbian Province.. even if Kosovo does get broken up, the north is not going anywhere but staying part of Serbia.. It would be you guys who are breaking off and won't be allowed to join any other country. It really is as simple as that.

KS, Kosovo is a Serbian Province.. even if Kosovo does get broken up, the north is not going anywhere but staying part of Serbia.. It would be you guys who are breaking off and won't be allowed to join any other country. It really is as simple as that.
(Milan T.O., 10. November 2007 21:07)

Albania has a better claim since Kosova was part of Northen Albanian prior to 1912, but KEEP DREAMING.

Kosova is Kosovars!

Lazer, let me enlighten YOU.
Belgrade did not want a war with Slovenia so the Yugoslav army was ordered to pull back.
Now the fact that the Slovenians wanted to flex a bit of muscle and pretend they were taking on the Yugoslav army is something that made them feel better.
Why on earth would Yugoslav army be afraid of Slovenia and then engage in a war with Croatia which was very well supplied with weapons, planes, tanks etc.?
Those soldiers that were held hostage for a few days is not an indication of a win against Serbia. That was just a silly stunt to try to make themselves look like winners without actually fighting anyone.
Anyone with any intelligence would see that you don't lose a war simply because of a few hostages.
We all know the reason Serbia went to war with Croatia and Bosnia, and they weren't afraid of some of them being taken as hostages.

"Albania has a better claim since Kosova was part of Northen Albanian prior to 1912, but KEEP DREAMING.

Kosova is Kosovars!
(KS, 11. November 2007 08:24)"


quite amusing, KS. but far from the truth!

"John Wilkes is the world’s foremost authority in Illyrian studies. In fact, his 1992 book has not been refuted in over 15 years. No other scholar has published a critical work of Wilkes’ monumental study, based on skeletal evidence and archaeological work done in Albania and ex-Yugoslavia in the late 1980s. Wilkes has the last word. Lubonja and Vehbiu inform us that Albanian scholarship under Hoxha even postulated Slavic origins for the Albanians as early as the 1950s, while scholarship was still free in Albania. Bulgarian scholar Selishev’s maps confirm a large Slav-speaking presnce showing 1/3 of Albanian toponyms to be Slavic and to which Coon attributes to Serbs a once large Serb population in Albania. A map of Europe in 814 AD, confirms it by showing Serbs living from Dalmatia & BiH throughout all of interior Albania, Epirus and the Peloponnese (while Bulgarians were situated north of the Danube).



After explaining a version of the Caucasian theory, Malcolm stated bluntly that Albanian-Illyrian continuity was exclusively based in linguistics. Wilkes then discusses the impossibility of Illyrian-Albanian ethnic & linguistic unity: first by providing skeletal evidence showing that modern Albanians and Illyrians were physically two different peoples; second: by discussing the unbridgeable centum/satem linguistic gap that nullifies the possibility of the continuity between Albanian and Illyrian languages. I pointed out that many Illyrian names have cognates and meaning in Serbian, as well as Albanian. Wilkes, as well as Malcolm (inadvertently) and the two genetic studies have all showed the weakness and inconsistent results that come with using linguistics to identify descent.



An overwhelming body of fairly objective evidence has refuted the Albanian-Illyrian hypothesis and no credible evidence at all in its favor remains. All that does actually remain is to provide a theory of Shqipetar ethnogenesis that incorporates (not just linguistics with all its erroneous conclusions) but more insightful disciplines. In fact any theory that would incorporate several disciplines will automatically be more credible than the Albanian-Illyrian myth. Toponymic data, anthropometrical data and other information never considered before will be valuable contributions to a more realistic theory."
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/7681/perpjekja_4.html

Canadian (if you say so) and the rest of the brethren,

I completely agree that Canadians are well known for their peace and wisdom. Just to refresh your memory we did participate in the Kosovo war http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/kosovo.html
If somebody is willing to read about wars in Yugoslavia there is a simple solution internet search keywords:
1) Slovenia War
2) Croatia War
3) Bosnia War
4) Kosovo War
If 90%+ of the articles blame Serbia AKA Yugoslavia AKA JNA then sorry but the truth can’t be hidden...Peace and love
Proud to be Canadian
Happy Remembrance Day

Lazer,

let me enlighten you regarding the Slovene war. The JNA in June 1991 was under the command of Konrad Kolsek (Slovene), Velkjo Kadijevic (a Croat), Stane Brovat (Slovene) and Blagoje Adzic (Serb). Hardly an army that was hell bent on imposing Serbian hegemony when its officer corps general command were multiethnic and staunch communists. Kadijevic overruled Brovat and Adzic who wanted to send in the JNA proper and literally crush Slovenia. Kadijevic's approach of sending in lightly armed Bosnian and K-Albanian conscripts in the hope that the Slovene TO and police would backdown, backfired. When the JNA conscripts threw down their arms and surrenderd en masse, the JNA changed tack and began making plans on deploying 50,000 eilte troops, among them paratrooper regiments the Guards who were stationed in Nis. Just as the Guards and paratroopers were travelling on the Belgrade-Zagreb autobahn on their way to Slovenia, Milosevic gave the orders for the JNA to return to barracks in Split, Zagreb, Belgrade and Sarajevo. The reasons given were.

1) if war broke out in Croatia (which it eventually did) over half of the JNA would have been trapped in Slovenia, engaing in a guerilla war with the Slovene TO and facing outright civil disobedience from the Slovene population.

2) No significant Serb population resident in Slovenia, therefore no support from populace.

3) A fierce reaction from Slovenia in the face of an all out attack by the JNA, would result in anarchy leaving the JNA no alternative but to declare marshal law. Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo would simultenously explode plunging Yugoslavia into all out anarchy and war in which the JNA and Serb police would be no position to counteract opening the possibility to foreign intervention.

4) Croatia and Bosnia held the military industrial complex of the JNA and was more easily to defend both geographically and politically.

You can see why Slobbo acted as he did. an all out war on Slovenia from a military point of view would have been unfeasable. Slovenia's geographical location coupled with a hostile Croatia would have made it impossible for the JNA to conduct any kind of long term military operations.

To peggy and Niall D.

Try to enlighten yourself, both of you.
First of all Gen. Veljko Kadijevic was not a Croat but a Serb.
Secon, then JNA could not fight Slovenia, 'cause it had no land connection, other then going through Croatia. To go to real war with Slovenia, it would ignite Croatia and Serbia would loose both wars.
Their timing was right, so they pulled back.
Its true that they send Bosnian and albanian conscripts, but Albanian soldiers were the first ones to surrender since they did not want to die for Serbia (good point). They were still send south to Macedonia and faced the Military Courts of miloshevic's Army.