Ethnic barriers smaller than expected

Vojvodina is awesome and is a great example of how things should be done right. Furthermore, the people there are somewhat assimilated, and support the state, unlike Kosovo & Metohija, where the people have always been against the state. In Vojvodina the people are smart enough to realize that unity is better than fighting, and they value peace. They are the most multi-cultural place in Europe, and the region has six official languages. It's the jewel of Serbia, and proof that the West's propaganda about us is false.

Hmmmm,

and who payed the journalists that were spreading false statements about voivodina as a place of intolerance against minorities, and as a break away province in par with kosovo???

WHO????

Good for Vojvodina, and even better for its people. Bravo!

Lazar, considering the mass expulsions and killings, systematic discrimination and intimidation by the government, and the revocation of what was autonomy for Kosovo should be reason enough for the Albanians' 'unreasonable' (in your line of thinking) disconnection.

Wouldn't you agree?

"Nationalist hatred and intolerance are not as prominent among young people as some news and certain incidents would have us believe,” Korhec said.

This is a good news. Nationalism is no good, and brings to hatred, intolerance, disrespect a,d wars.

I hope that the young generation would not follow the steps of their parents and grand parents.

Lazar, Pyrros, Mike,

Just hold your horses. I have to burst your bubble. The reality is quite different from this so-called rosy "research". One of the recent attacks on Hungarians happened mid-October in Temelin. About 10 Serb youngsters attacked and badly heart a 19 and a 20 years old Hungarian because of their ethnicity at the Temelin bus station. The police as usual did nothing. The same group continued their verbal and physical attacks on the bus against other Hungarians. This kind of attacks happen in Temelin regularly, where if I remember correctly the municipality is lead by radicals. I read all this regularly on a Hungarian web site In Vojvodina. You would naturally tell me that these are lies, nothing like this happens in the "jewel" of Serbia as Lazar puts it. This time even the media of Hungary (usually wrongly silent on such cases to not make those "tolelant" Serbs even more intolerant)picked up this latest attack. And this is just one example. So Mike this is what you call so good for Vojvodina's people. Waiting to hear your response minimizing all such attacks.

Joe, I was kind of waiting for you to chime in. What you report may have happened, but it doesn't dilute the report from the survey data.

Intolerance happens everywhere, and 10 Serb youngsters harassing 20 or so Hungarians is a far cry from 4,311 students polled indicating an acceptance of minorities. Besides, if we are to believe reports coming in from ethic websites such as what you rely on, then the harassments of Serbs in Kosovo that you so conveniently overlook and dismiss, should be given equal weight in your condemnation.

But of course, it doesn't.

Look Joe, let's be honest here. I, or anyone else would be a complete fool if we honestly believed Vojvodina was racist-free. Show me any place in the world where there is no prejudice or no racism, and I'd say you weren't looking hard enough.

But let's not make this as big deal. You've been constantly pushing this notion that Vodvodina is nothing more than a den of xenophobia and anti-Hungarianism ever since you blasted your way onto this site, and to be honest my friend, it's getting both repetitive and overdone. Furthermore, there is just no enough evidence to prove your poins. If you honestly believe the survey was "doctored" by Serbian propagandists, I truly question you coming on to a Serbia site day after day if all you want to do is extol your vitriol and intolerance. If you're waiting for me, or anyone else here to basically say "Oh my God, Joe, you're right. I never thought it was that bad. I'm so ashamed to have thought differently. Thank you Joe for setting my mind right and extolling the orchestrated lies and propaganda that is the Serbian government and the Serbian people", you're going to be waiting for quite some time.

How many non-Hungarians are discriminated against in Hungary? What about Hungarians in Romania? What about Serbs in Kosovo? What about Blacks and Hispanics in the United States? Don't accuse me of trying to change the subject when you are clearly trying to make Vojvodina a special case of intolerance, while not being able - after I have constantly been asking you - to provide the evidence of which you speak, or at the very least provide the web links to where you get your information from. If it's the Hungarian version of Serbianna.com, then I have to question both your judgement as well as your ability to make empirical arguments and reach educated conclusions.

Bottom line Joe is this: racism exists no matter how hard we try to stop it, erradicate it, or just overlook it. But if you are going to base actions of what unfortunately happens by a small group of people who comprise less than 5 - 10% of the overall population and then attribute these actions to collective stereotyping of an entire ethnicity, you are engaging in poor thinking. Again, I have to say that if there are an equal number of Albanians committing the same types of attacks in Kosovo against Serbs, why are you so blatantly sympathetic towards their cause? I suspect immature racism and a downright inability to separate emotion from fact is continuing to cloud your judgement, and as long as you continue to push these ideas which you clearly have emotional attachments to on this site and continue to prejudge entire races of people, you will continue to be at odds with myself and many other people on this site.

One more thing Joe, because I really don't want you to once again misconstrue words. But like I said in my original reply, attacks do, and have occurred in Vojdodina. Those Serb kids that beat the Hungarian should be tried and punished to the fullest extent of the law. They need to be taught that Vojvodina is multiethnic and that Hungarians have just as much right to live there as they do. I don't believe that there should be any excuse or explanation for their violence simply based on the fact that Hungarians once ruled over Serbs or something dumb like that. That's about as stupid an excuse as old Serbian grandmothers being beaten in Kosovo by Albanian teenage thugs simply because she is a part of the old order that "oppressed" them, which I might add is just as cowardly as the "numerical superiority" example you alluded to, yet you seem to think that all these equally egregious actions are justified, as Serbs are getting what's coming to them.

Address the issue objectively, and not subjectively, and you might taken more seriously around here.

Jó napot

"About 10 Serb youngsters attacked and badly heart a 19 and a 20 years old Hungarian because of their ethnicity at the Temelin bus station. The police as usual did nothing."

this from mr. joe. mr. joe, you should not be allowed to post this kind of nonsense if you'll excuse my french. the police as usual did something. they arrested the perps. thats how you know about this, you and your unnamed "forum".
i am sure there are crazoid types, serb and hungarian in vojvodina, and elsewhere, wishing there was conflict, violence, hatred and what not. but the truth is that hungarians in vojvodina have all the rights and enjoy all the privileges. political parties, media, local government. name one human rights report either by ngo or intern, orgs that is concerned about hugarians in vojvodina, link us and i'll read it with interest. and worry. but this-i know vojv hungarians, i worked with them. they would laugh in your face if you told them they are an endangared minorty in need of help just as i laugh in the faces of serb radicals when they tell me our borders are somewhere in front of zagreb.
then there is another large minority in vojdovodina, slovaks. how come there's no trouble with slovaks? and there's about 26 other minorities although lets say 25, because i dont really consider those poor souls who call themselves "yugoslavs" a minority :)
and about isolated incidents. last year, a group of hungarians beat a groups of serbs almost identically at a bus stop. doped hungarian youth almost regularly desacrate othrodox cemeteries. but as mike pointed out we dont jump at this because these things happen everywhere.
if they happen in kosovo then thats another matter because that region practically never got out of war and things have a different weight there. but vojvodina? please.

Mike,

The subject here is Vojvodina not Kosovo. What I tried to demask is this cynical Serbian propoganda of ethnical harmony in Vojvodina. This so-called survey seemed to be "doctored" by carefully selecting the ethnicity of the students. Also the 10 Serbs did not attack 20 Hungarians but only 2 (1 was 19 and the other 20 years old). The Serbs dare to attack only if they are in numerical superiority. Anyway the Hungarian government should state clearly that if these attacks and atrocities continue Hungary will veto Serbia's EU entry. Things so barbaric are just not allowed in Europe of the XXI century anymore.
And just an other very recent case from Temelin: a Hungarian exited a restaurant in the night to go home when a group of Serbs asked him "Jesi li madar ?" When he answered "da" he was so badly bitten that he got bone fractures and spent a week in the hospital. Again the police never tried to find the perpetrators.
Mike is this type of Serbia, who dreams to keep Kosovo? I am so glad to think that since 1999 2 million K-Albanians don't suffer the beatings, harassments and discrimination anymore. At last their are free from Serbian oppression.

It is true that there are some ethnic attacks in vojvodina, and that the biggest amount is on the hungarians... but the second biggest amount is against serbs, as B92 had reported some time ago.

And Joe, many of these extremists are still angry at what the hungarians did to us in the first world war, for we have not been compensated for such a huge amount of our population lost. At any rate, most serbs and hungarians live in peace and harmony in Vojvodina, almost all of them.

Lazar, considering the mass expulsions and killings, systematic discrimination and intimidation by the government, and the revocation of what was autonomy for Kosovo should be reason enough for the Albanians' 'unreasonable' (in your line of thinking) disconnection.

Wouldn't you agree?

Lazar, Pyrros, Mike,

Just hold your horses. I have to burst your bubble. The reality is quite different from this so-called rosy "research". One of the recent attacks on Hungarians happened mid-October in Temelin. About 10 Serb youngsters attacked and badly heart a 19 and a 20 years old Hungarian because of their ethnicity at the Temelin bus station. The police as usual did nothing. The same group continued their verbal and physical attacks on the bus against other Hungarians. This kind of attacks happen in Temelin regularly, where if I remember correctly the municipality is lead by radicals. I read all this regularly on a Hungarian web site In Vojvodina. You would naturally tell me that these are lies, nothing like this happens in the "jewel" of Serbia as Lazar puts it. This time even the media of Hungary (usually wrongly silent on such cases to not make those "tolelant" Serbs even more intolerant)picked up this latest attack. And this is just one example. So Mike this is what you call so good for Vojvodina's people. Waiting to hear your response minimizing all such attacks.

"Nationalist hatred and intolerance are not as prominent among young people as some news and certain incidents would have us believe,” Korhec said.

This is a good news. Nationalism is no good, and brings to hatred, intolerance, disrespect a,d wars.

I hope that the young generation would not follow the steps of their parents and grand parents.

Hmmmm,

and who payed the journalists that were spreading false statements about voivodina as a place of intolerance against minorities, and as a break away province in par with kosovo???

WHO????

Vojvodina is awesome and is a great example of how things should be done right. Furthermore, the people there are somewhat assimilated, and support the state, unlike Kosovo & Metohija, where the people have always been against the state. In Vojvodina the people are smart enough to realize that unity is better than fighting, and they value peace. They are the most multi-cultural place in Europe, and the region has six official languages. It's the jewel of Serbia, and proof that the West's propaganda about us is false.

Good for Vojvodina, and even better for its people. Bravo!

Joe, I was kind of waiting for you to chime in. What you report may have happened, but it doesn't dilute the report from the survey data.

Intolerance happens everywhere, and 10 Serb youngsters harassing 20 or so Hungarians is a far cry from 4,311 students polled indicating an acceptance of minorities. Besides, if we are to believe reports coming in from ethic websites such as what you rely on, then the harassments of Serbs in Kosovo that you so conveniently overlook and dismiss, should be given equal weight in your condemnation.

But of course, it doesn't.

Mike,

The subject here is Vojvodina not Kosovo. What I tried to demask is this cynical Serbian propoganda of ethnical harmony in Vojvodina. This so-called survey seemed to be "doctored" by carefully selecting the ethnicity of the students. Also the 10 Serbs did not attack 20 Hungarians but only 2 (1 was 19 and the other 20 years old). The Serbs dare to attack only if they are in numerical superiority. Anyway the Hungarian government should state clearly that if these attacks and atrocities continue Hungary will veto Serbia's EU entry. Things so barbaric are just not allowed in Europe of the XXI century anymore.
And just an other very recent case from Temelin: a Hungarian exited a restaurant in the night to go home when a group of Serbs asked him "Jesi li madar ?" When he answered "da" he was so badly bitten that he got bone fractures and spent a week in the hospital. Again the police never tried to find the perpetrators.
Mike is this type of Serbia, who dreams to keep Kosovo? I am so glad to think that since 1999 2 million K-Albanians don't suffer the beatings, harassments and discrimination anymore. At last their are free from Serbian oppression.

It is true that there are some ethnic attacks in vojvodina, and that the biggest amount is on the hungarians... but the second biggest amount is against serbs, as B92 had reported some time ago.

And Joe, many of these extremists are still angry at what the hungarians did to us in the first world war, for we have not been compensated for such a huge amount of our population lost. At any rate, most serbs and hungarians live in peace and harmony in Vojvodina, almost all of them.

Look Joe, let's be honest here. I, or anyone else would be a complete fool if we honestly believed Vojvodina was racist-free. Show me any place in the world where there is no prejudice or no racism, and I'd say you weren't looking hard enough.

But let's not make this as big deal. You've been constantly pushing this notion that Vodvodina is nothing more than a den of xenophobia and anti-Hungarianism ever since you blasted your way onto this site, and to be honest my friend, it's getting both repetitive and overdone. Furthermore, there is just no enough evidence to prove your poins. If you honestly believe the survey was "doctored" by Serbian propagandists, I truly question you coming on to a Serbia site day after day if all you want to do is extol your vitriol and intolerance. If you're waiting for me, or anyone else here to basically say "Oh my God, Joe, you're right. I never thought it was that bad. I'm so ashamed to have thought differently. Thank you Joe for setting my mind right and extolling the orchestrated lies and propaganda that is the Serbian government and the Serbian people", you're going to be waiting for quite some time.

How many non-Hungarians are discriminated against in Hungary? What about Hungarians in Romania? What about Serbs in Kosovo? What about Blacks and Hispanics in the United States? Don't accuse me of trying to change the subject when you are clearly trying to make Vojvodina a special case of intolerance, while not being able - after I have constantly been asking you - to provide the evidence of which you speak, or at the very least provide the web links to where you get your information from. If it's the Hungarian version of Serbianna.com, then I have to question both your judgement as well as your ability to make empirical arguments and reach educated conclusions.

Bottom line Joe is this: racism exists no matter how hard we try to stop it, erradicate it, or just overlook it. But if you are going to base actions of what unfortunately happens by a small group of people who comprise less than 5 - 10% of the overall population and then attribute these actions to collective stereotyping of an entire ethnicity, you are engaging in poor thinking. Again, I have to say that if there are an equal number of Albanians committing the same types of attacks in Kosovo against Serbs, why are you so blatantly sympathetic towards their cause? I suspect immature racism and a downright inability to separate emotion from fact is continuing to cloud your judgement, and as long as you continue to push these ideas which you clearly have emotional attachments to on this site and continue to prejudge entire races of people, you will continue to be at odds with myself and many other people on this site.

One more thing Joe, because I really don't want you to once again misconstrue words. But like I said in my original reply, attacks do, and have occurred in Vojdodina. Those Serb kids that beat the Hungarian should be tried and punished to the fullest extent of the law. They need to be taught that Vojvodina is multiethnic and that Hungarians have just as much right to live there as they do. I don't believe that there should be any excuse or explanation for their violence simply based on the fact that Hungarians once ruled over Serbs or something dumb like that. That's about as stupid an excuse as old Serbian grandmothers being beaten in Kosovo by Albanian teenage thugs simply because she is a part of the old order that "oppressed" them, which I might add is just as cowardly as the "numerical superiority" example you alluded to, yet you seem to think that all these equally egregious actions are justified, as Serbs are getting what's coming to them.

Address the issue objectively, and not subjectively, and you might taken more seriously around here.

Jó napot

"About 10 Serb youngsters attacked and badly heart a 19 and a 20 years old Hungarian because of their ethnicity at the Temelin bus station. The police as usual did nothing."

this from mr. joe. mr. joe, you should not be allowed to post this kind of nonsense if you'll excuse my french. the police as usual did something. they arrested the perps. thats how you know about this, you and your unnamed "forum".
i am sure there are crazoid types, serb and hungarian in vojvodina, and elsewhere, wishing there was conflict, violence, hatred and what not. but the truth is that hungarians in vojvodina have all the rights and enjoy all the privileges. political parties, media, local government. name one human rights report either by ngo or intern, orgs that is concerned about hugarians in vojvodina, link us and i'll read it with interest. and worry. but this-i know vojv hungarians, i worked with them. they would laugh in your face if you told them they are an endangared minorty in need of help just as i laugh in the faces of serb radicals when they tell me our borders are somewhere in front of zagreb.
then there is another large minority in vojdovodina, slovaks. how come there's no trouble with slovaks? and there's about 26 other minorities although lets say 25, because i dont really consider those poor souls who call themselves "yugoslavs" a minority :)
and about isolated incidents. last year, a group of hungarians beat a groups of serbs almost identically at a bus stop. doped hungarian youth almost regularly desacrate othrodox cemeteries. but as mike pointed out we dont jump at this because these things happen everywhere.
if they happen in kosovo then thats another matter because that region practically never got out of war and things have a different weight there. but vojvodina? please.