You people do realise though, that if RS was to declare some kind of independence, this would mean all out war AGAIN. Ruining millions of lives AGAIN..and AGAIN it seems we never learn do we.
“Serbs finally managed to free themselves and their land from the Turks and are now being accused of setting up RS by genocide and ethnic cleansing.”
Well, when Arkan-oids were raping innocent women in rape camps and Mladic soldires were killing thousands of Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica, they were saying that they were just “freeing Serbs from the Turci (“turks”, as they defined Bosnian Muslims)”.
“Bosnia always belonged to the Serbs.”
Who told you that? Your patriarch? Your favorite politician? A Seselj-inspired “intelectual”? Get some good Historical Atlas, and you’ll see that Bosnia most of the time did not belong to the Serbia. Bosnia and Serbia were separate Ottoman provinces, after that separated between Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, etc… Bosnia, even inside Yugoslavia (the Kingdom and the Socialist Republic) was a separate entity from Serbia.
BOSNIA (including republika spska) IS NOT SERBIA. It never was. It never will be… at least if Serbia try to wage war again against not just Sarajevo, but against the nuclear-armed United States of America and NATO, but I really think that move would be SUICIDAL, to say the least.
“The fact that they were invaded by the Turks and some converted to Islam during that time does not justify handing Bosnia to Muslim rule which it is now.”
Why not? Face the truth: Bosnia today is a majority Muslim country. So that’s simply natural, not a imposition, that most politicians and leaders there came from Muslim families. But it would be absolutely normal that Bosnian Catholics and Orthodox would have the right to enter Bosnian politics, too — but inside a secular unified country, without religious chauvinism.
“If Bosnia was truly functioning as a multicultural country why then are the Croats from Herzegovina gathering signatures from their people in order to set up their own self rule there?”
This is not a move made by Bosnian Catholics, but just for some fanatics inside the Bosnian HDZ — Even Croatia itself does not consider Bosnian Catholics “people of Croatia” anymore. Croatia now looks to the future, to NATO, to EU, not to old ethno-religious games.
So it’s time to grow up and extinguish republika srpska for good. Maybe that would even not be bad for Bosnian orthodox people — but certainly it wouldn’t be a good deal for the power-hungry politicians and clerics…
Peggy,
I am not sure if you are aware but kosovo is not serbia, kosovo has always enjoyed status of autonomy (SAP Kosovo)such as did vojvodina while part of SFRJ, so you can not compare this two situations as a same! Bosnia is a soverign country and so should stay, this so called rs crap that was forced upon at that time on the puppet politicians that where so called "acting on behalf" of people of Bosnia who where forced into Dayton peace agreement is a joke, I was never asked to vote for or agains it neither was the rest of the population!!!
I believe that there is enough of serbian desperate treaths and flexing the muscle, you believe in democracy human rights and freedoms and so on..... where does the serbia belong on the list than and how dare can you even support such ideology that puts you even lower than them I guess???
After the genocide and what has ben done I am surprised that people don't even have shame to discuss such ridiculos topics! As far as I am concern there is a country called serbia and if you ask me who ever might feel citizen of so called serbia why don't they move there??? I believe there is over 1 milion of people of serbian origin in USA why don't they ask for rs in here, guess what would they get, hahaha!
Anyways,
the so called, artificial, forced upon people against their will, rs is not a legitimate country or governing body in my eyes and many others so it should be dismantled and nationalist leaders from either party should be exiled or jailed, you are discussing this and that what difference does it make to innocent children that are robbed from their childhoods, vacations or even one of they parents, don't you think this kids have right for better and brighter future, this kids regardless of they religion I am sure they would love to enjoy all this goodies we have in the west, I am 100% sure they would love to have all the freedom and joy american kids do, and do you think this so called leaders care???
No they don't give crap all they care is they power and they position in the party!!!
Average joe an blow is irrelevant to them!!!
This is beyond belief. Some posters here are actually saying that RS was somehow taken away from Boshniaks (Bosnian Muslims). Are they actually implying that Serbia invaded that part of Bosnia and settled their own people there?
Majority of Bosnia was populated by Serbs and Croats to the lesser extent. Serbs have defended the territory where they were a majority ie. RS. They were constntly under attack by the Croats in that region.
Yes, Bosnia existed on the map, but it was NEVER legitemately ruled by Muslims except during the occuation by Ottoman Emprire.
Serbs finally managed to free themselves and their land from the Turks and are now being accused of setting up RS by genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Bosnia always belonged to the Serbs. The fact that they were invaded by the Turks and some converted to Islam during that time does not justify handing Bosnia to Muslim rule which it is now.
Bosnia is NOT a multicultural country. It is ruled by a Muslim government without any real input from either Croats or Serbs.
If Bosnia was truly functioning as a multicultural country why then are the Croats from Herzegovina gathering signatures from their people in order to set up their own self rule there?
Everyone again is so busy pointing fingers at the Serbs and "atrocities" written by pac journalists and totally ignoring the genocide and ethnic cleansing done by the Muslims in order to secure their rule. The Muslims have done their fare share of this with a little help from their Al-Qaeda pals. So we reward this with a country of their own but RS is not allowed.
I see a lot of people on here talking about people being anti serb or labelling the serbs as some sort of monsters. The truth of the matter is...the serbs did mess up. They did kill indiscriminatelty, they put people in concentration camps, held systematic killings etc. You cannot just get away with something like that... I am not anti serb, I have many serbian friends actually. But there are consenquences for your actions. RS was built on genocide and ethnic clensing. It was not WON by the Serbs in some fair game that they can now just keep.
You obviously cannot think clearly since you foster the animosity towards the Serbs. I will freely presume that Serbs cannot live with anybody else actually implies Albanians. This can be confirmed by the latest news in Macedonia. If the Serbs to blame for everything then what Albanians are doing in Macedonia at the moment (or in the past for that matter). You are very wrong when speaking of Serbs badly treating own people of deifferent ethnic background. Sorry to disapoint you but this is not true. I would like to see more facts on this. Please link me. We are talking here of human rights and I wait you to send me proof in what way Serbian minorities' are denied those rights. Oh, I guess you meant Albanians badly treating their own minorities. Barb-wire is such an inteligent invention for Albanians. Speaking about modern societes you must be thinking of Kosovo belongs to that category with birbed-wired minorities, with destruction of serbian cultural heritage. If someone is brainwashed in this world is you Albanians thought by the famous basement teachers. And for the end Gorilla Republic of Srpska will be Serbia sooner or later. You may call that Republic as you wish but it will be Serbian and who knows we might be even granted Srpska by EU,USA for the crimes we did. And yes, I have a question for you. Why you Albanians deny people of turkish nationality and their right on having own culture and language? I have been in Kosovo and heard from many Albanians that Turks in Kosovo are actually Albanians that just pretend to be Turks. What to expect for other minorities? Why my neighbour Albanian (good friend) was forbiden to greet me on the street if she was with friends? Why she was frightened? And why I on the other hand was free to talk with anyone I liked? Please, tell me more about modern societes, civilizaton....Looking forward
“If Kosovo may split from Serbia, why may RS not split from Bosnia?”
Because RS was constructed on the 1992-1995 genocide. RS exists due to Srebreinca. Due to Omarska Concentration Camp. Due to the Siege of Sarajevo and the Sniper Alley. Due to Mladic. Due to Arkan. Due to Karadzic. Due mainly to the dead criminal dictator Slobodan Milosevic.
And also because RS IS NOT contiguous territory. Look at the map: RS is divided in two by the Brcko District and FBiH’s Posavina Canton. What the Serb nationalists would do? To wage war with FBiH again? To call Arkan to “ethnically cleanse” this territories and annex them to RS by force? Ops, sorry, but Arkan was shot down some seven years ago…
“Bosnia is an artifical state indeed. People are forced to live with each other becuase International community wanted some multicultural society.”
This is a lie, and you know that. Before the tragic alliance of the orthodox lunatics ate SANU, the military and the Serbian opportunists in 1992 that made the war, generally nobody in normal life in Croatia or Bosnia cared for one’s religion. People lived in the same areas, and even intermarried. And differently from Albanian-speaking Kosovars and Serbians, the only effective difference between Bosniaks, Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats is religion.
“One thing is more than sure, Balkan people cannot leave in ethnically mixed communities.”
In modern and democratic western societies, people of different ethnic backgrounds or different religions do mix together. In fact, the only people in the Balkans who refuse to be in minority in any place are the orthodox Serbo-Croatian speaking Yugoslavs, brianwashed by the church and militant Serb nationalist rhetoric.
“The only state in the Balkan that has reall multicultural traits is Serbia. Serbia is the most culturaly diverse country. Perhaps the neighbours could learn something from us.”
Serbia has been a very bad teacher, to say the least. Even inside is current real borders, it usually mistreats Hungarians in Vojvodina, Muslims in Sandzak and Albanians in Southern Serbia.
For the sake of stabiliy in the Balkans, Kosovo should be an independent country and RS should be extinct and re-annexed to the Bosnian nation-state.
Niall,
RS is the direct result of genocide and by letting it stand as it is, you reward genocide. Moreover, RS is in the clearly defined territory of Bosnia, Kosovo on the other hand is a province that was added to Serbia. A province has the flexibility to vote for independence and this was a right given to the province during the Yugoslavia days by Tito. .
I’m rather flabbergasted that a rational person could even justify the existence of RS let alone defend its existence. I challenge you to do some soul searching and visit Srebrenica in July sometime to meet with some of the people who are victims of RS.
This all wouldn't be happening if Serbs and Croats weren't so greedy and trying to get a piece of Bosnia. Let Bosnia be Bosnia and whoever wants to live there, let them!!! There is Serbia for Serbs and Croatia for Croats, and I bet they wouldn't like it if Muslims split up their countries, and named half of it "Balija State" see that would never happen and of course then it would be labeled terrorism. Get real...in order to have peace in this region, there needs to be religious separation, leave Muslims in Bosnia and let them have their country back. RS is the worst thing ever created, even Serbs in RS are suffering, they live like poor villagers. Free Kosovo!!!
I completely agree with you. RS is the result of aggression, genocide and crimes against humanity. It is an artificial and illegal government pseudostructure which is bound to be dismantled. In fact, the only ex-Yu country which has true multiculturalism is Bosnia. Even after how that country has been treated, its people are still willing to coexist with other cultures. I fail to see such multiculturalism in Blegrade or even Banja Luka. It is unfortunate. Bosnia is so much richer for its higher moral and ethical values. RS is illegal and is an impediment to democracy in the region. RS never existed, while Bosnia has been on maps preceding Croatia and Serbia. If you don't believe me, go read a history textbook - preferably not one written by Seselj or Milosevic.
"Bosnia and Herzegovina is a sovereign state recognized internationally and regionally"
I know it is, but isn't Serbia also a sovereign state recognised both internationally and regionally, so if Kosovo gets to split from Serbia, why not RS? Answer me on this.
Bosnia is an artifical state indeed. People are forced to live with each other becuase International community wanted some multicultural society. Former Yugoslavia was an artifical state as well, in my opinion. The only difference is that ex Yugos were not really forced to live with each other (or some maybe did feel that way). However, we all here witness how did it end. One thing is more than sure, Balkan people cannot leave in ethnically mixed communities. At least not any more. The only state in the Balkan that has reall multicultural traits is Serbia. Serbia is the most culturaly diverse country. Perhaps the neighbours could learn something from us.
Kosovo is in a different situation than RS due to the long-time outright harassment and killings of the kosovo-albanian population perpetrated by the Serbian government forces. Such things never happened in RS.
But anyhow, who cares? There are no borders withing EU and the normal people in Belgium doesn't care as long as they have a good life.
"If Kosovo may split from Serbia, why may RS not split from Bosnia?"
Kosovo shouldnt be allowed to split from Serbia and neither should RS split away from the Federation because people cant just decide to cut up state borders. Im bosnian, but I just dont support Kosovo independence...I feel bad for anyone that has to suffer as a minority but it doesnt mean they have a right to just set up their own country.
Danijela,
Your argument is very flawed.
You mention how Bosnia is a sovereign state so therefore no divisions allowed.
Guess what? Last time I checked, Serbia was also a sovereign state.
Can you pleae explain how one sovereign state must be preserved but the other may be allowed to break up?
The only reason I can think of is that every other race has a right to self govern except the Serbs.
If you can give me a better explanation please do.
Bosnia and Herzegovina is a sovereign state recognized internationally and regionally therefore suggesting that it is artificial lowers your IQ about 100 points. The concepts of state is artificially constructed therefore no state really exists. That is a better argument. BiH has two entities which will soon be demolished and Bosnia will be united.
Danijela,
Your argument is very flawed.
You mention how Bosnia is a sovereign state so therefore no divisions allowed.
Guess what? Last time I checked, Serbia was also a sovereign state.
Can you pleae explain how one sovereign state must be preserved but the other may be allowed to break up?
The only reason I can think of is that every other race has a right to self govern except the Serbs.
If you can give me a better explanation please do.
"Bosnia and Herzegovina is a sovereign state recognized internationally and regionally"
I know it is, but isn't Serbia also a sovereign state recognised both internationally and regionally, so if Kosovo gets to split from Serbia, why not RS? Answer me on this.
This is beyond belief. Some posters here are actually saying that RS was somehow taken away from Boshniaks (Bosnian Muslims). Are they actually implying that Serbia invaded that part of Bosnia and settled their own people there?
Majority of Bosnia was populated by Serbs and Croats to the lesser extent. Serbs have defended the territory where they were a majority ie. RS. They were constntly under attack by the Croats in that region.
Yes, Bosnia existed on the map, but it was NEVER legitemately ruled by Muslims except during the occuation by Ottoman Emprire.
Serbs finally managed to free themselves and their land from the Turks and are now being accused of setting up RS by genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Bosnia always belonged to the Serbs. The fact that they were invaded by the Turks and some converted to Islam during that time does not justify handing Bosnia to Muslim rule which it is now.
Bosnia is NOT a multicultural country. It is ruled by a Muslim government without any real input from either Croats or Serbs.
If Bosnia was truly functioning as a multicultural country why then are the Croats from Herzegovina gathering signatures from their people in order to set up their own self rule there?
Everyone again is so busy pointing fingers at the Serbs and "atrocities" written by pac journalists and totally ignoring the genocide and ethnic cleansing done by the Muslims in order to secure their rule. The Muslims have done their fare share of this with a little help from their Al-Qaeda pals. So we reward this with a country of their own but RS is not allowed.
Bosnia and Herzegovina is a sovereign state recognized internationally and regionally therefore suggesting that it is artificial lowers your IQ about 100 points. The concepts of state is artificially constructed therefore no state really exists. That is a better argument. BiH has two entities which will soon be demolished and Bosnia will be united.
Niall,
RS is the direct result of genocide and by letting it stand as it is, you reward genocide. Moreover, RS is in the clearly defined territory of Bosnia, Kosovo on the other hand is a province that was added to Serbia. A province has the flexibility to vote for independence and this was a right given to the province during the Yugoslavia days by Tito. .
I’m rather flabbergasted that a rational person could even justify the existence of RS let alone defend its existence. I challenge you to do some soul searching and visit Srebrenica in July sometime to meet with some of the people who are victims of RS.
I completely agree with you. RS is the result of aggression, genocide and crimes against humanity. It is an artificial and illegal government pseudostructure which is bound to be dismantled. In fact, the only ex-Yu country which has true multiculturalism is Bosnia. Even after how that country has been treated, its people are still willing to coexist with other cultures. I fail to see such multiculturalism in Blegrade or even Banja Luka. It is unfortunate. Bosnia is so much richer for its higher moral and ethical values. RS is illegal and is an impediment to democracy in the region. RS never existed, while Bosnia has been on maps preceding Croatia and Serbia. If you don't believe me, go read a history textbook - preferably not one written by Seselj or Milosevic.
You obviously cannot think clearly since you foster the animosity towards the Serbs. I will freely presume that Serbs cannot live with anybody else actually implies Albanians. This can be confirmed by the latest news in Macedonia. If the Serbs to blame for everything then what Albanians are doing in Macedonia at the moment (or in the past for that matter). You are very wrong when speaking of Serbs badly treating own people of deifferent ethnic background. Sorry to disapoint you but this is not true. I would like to see more facts on this. Please link me. We are talking here of human rights and I wait you to send me proof in what way Serbian minorities' are denied those rights. Oh, I guess you meant Albanians badly treating their own minorities. Barb-wire is such an inteligent invention for Albanians. Speaking about modern societes you must be thinking of Kosovo belongs to that category with birbed-wired minorities, with destruction of serbian cultural heritage. If someone is brainwashed in this world is you Albanians thought by the famous basement teachers. And for the end Gorilla Republic of Srpska will be Serbia sooner or later. You may call that Republic as you wish but it will be Serbian and who knows we might be even granted Srpska by EU,USA for the crimes we did. And yes, I have a question for you. Why you Albanians deny people of turkish nationality and their right on having own culture and language? I have been in Kosovo and heard from many Albanians that Turks in Kosovo are actually Albanians that just pretend to be Turks. What to expect for other minorities? Why my neighbour Albanian (good friend) was forbiden to greet me on the street if she was with friends? Why she was frightened? And why I on the other hand was free to talk with anyone I liked? Please, tell me more about modern societes, civilizaton....Looking forward
This all wouldn't be happening if Serbs and Croats weren't so greedy and trying to get a piece of Bosnia. Let Bosnia be Bosnia and whoever wants to live there, let them!!! There is Serbia for Serbs and Croatia for Croats, and I bet they wouldn't like it if Muslims split up their countries, and named half of it "Balija State" see that would never happen and of course then it would be labeled terrorism. Get real...in order to have peace in this region, there needs to be religious separation, leave Muslims in Bosnia and let them have their country back. RS is the worst thing ever created, even Serbs in RS are suffering, they live like poor villagers. Free Kosovo!!!
I see a lot of people on here talking about people being anti serb or labelling the serbs as some sort of monsters. The truth of the matter is...the serbs did mess up. They did kill indiscriminatelty, they put people in concentration camps, held systematic killings etc. You cannot just get away with something like that... I am not anti serb, I have many serbian friends actually. But there are consenquences for your actions. RS was built on genocide and ethnic clensing. It was not WON by the Serbs in some fair game that they can now just keep.
You people do realise though, that if RS was to declare some kind of independence, this would mean all out war AGAIN. Ruining millions of lives AGAIN..and AGAIN it seems we never learn do we.
Bosnia is an artifical state indeed. People are forced to live with each other becuase International community wanted some multicultural society. Former Yugoslavia was an artifical state as well, in my opinion. The only difference is that ex Yugos were not really forced to live with each other (or some maybe did feel that way). However, we all here witness how did it end. One thing is more than sure, Balkan people cannot leave in ethnically mixed communities. At least not any more. The only state in the Balkan that has reall multicultural traits is Serbia. Serbia is the most culturaly diverse country. Perhaps the neighbours could learn something from us.
“If Kosovo may split from Serbia, why may RS not split from Bosnia?”
Because RS was constructed on the 1992-1995 genocide. RS exists due to Srebreinca. Due to Omarska Concentration Camp. Due to the Siege of Sarajevo and the Sniper Alley. Due to Mladic. Due to Arkan. Due to Karadzic. Due mainly to the dead criminal dictator Slobodan Milosevic.
And also because RS IS NOT contiguous territory. Look at the map: RS is divided in two by the Brcko District and FBiH’s Posavina Canton. What the Serb nationalists would do? To wage war with FBiH again? To call Arkan to “ethnically cleanse” this territories and annex them to RS by force? Ops, sorry, but Arkan was shot down some seven years ago…
“Bosnia is an artifical state indeed. People are forced to live with each other becuase International community wanted some multicultural society.”
This is a lie, and you know that. Before the tragic alliance of the orthodox lunatics ate SANU, the military and the Serbian opportunists in 1992 that made the war, generally nobody in normal life in Croatia or Bosnia cared for one’s religion. People lived in the same areas, and even intermarried. And differently from Albanian-speaking Kosovars and Serbians, the only effective difference between Bosniaks, Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats is religion.
“One thing is more than sure, Balkan people cannot leave in ethnically mixed communities.”
In modern and democratic western societies, people of different ethnic backgrounds or different religions do mix together. In fact, the only people in the Balkans who refuse to be in minority in any place are the orthodox Serbo-Croatian speaking Yugoslavs, brianwashed by the church and militant Serb nationalist rhetoric.
“The only state in the Balkan that has reall multicultural traits is Serbia. Serbia is the most culturaly diverse country. Perhaps the neighbours could learn something from us.”
Serbia has been a very bad teacher, to say the least. Even inside is current real borders, it usually mistreats Hungarians in Vojvodina, Muslims in Sandzak and Albanians in Southern Serbia.
For the sake of stabiliy in the Balkans, Kosovo should be an independent country and RS should be extinct and re-annexed to the Bosnian nation-state.
"If Kosovo may split from Serbia, why may RS not split from Bosnia?"
Kosovo shouldnt be allowed to split from Serbia and neither should RS split away from the Federation because people cant just decide to cut up state borders. Im bosnian, but I just dont support Kosovo independence...I feel bad for anyone that has to suffer as a minority but it doesnt mean they have a right to just set up their own country.
Kosovo is in a different situation than RS due to the long-time outright harassment and killings of the kosovo-albanian population perpetrated by the Serbian government forces. Such things never happened in RS.
But anyhow, who cares? There are no borders withing EU and the normal people in Belgium doesn't care as long as they have a good life.
Peggy,
I am not sure if you are aware but kosovo is not serbia, kosovo has always enjoyed status of autonomy (SAP Kosovo)such as did vojvodina while part of SFRJ, so you can not compare this two situations as a same! Bosnia is a soverign country and so should stay, this so called rs crap that was forced upon at that time on the puppet politicians that where so called "acting on behalf" of people of Bosnia who where forced into Dayton peace agreement is a joke, I was never asked to vote for or agains it neither was the rest of the population!!!
I believe that there is enough of serbian desperate treaths and flexing the muscle, you believe in democracy human rights and freedoms and so on..... where does the serbia belong on the list than and how dare can you even support such ideology that puts you even lower than them I guess???
After the genocide and what has ben done I am surprised that people don't even have shame to discuss such ridiculos topics! As far as I am concern there is a country called serbia and if you ask me who ever might feel citizen of so called serbia why don't they move there??? I believe there is over 1 milion of people of serbian origin in USA why don't they ask for rs in here, guess what would they get, hahaha!
Anyways,
the so called, artificial, forced upon people against their will, rs is not a legitimate country or governing body in my eyes and many others so it should be dismantled and nationalist leaders from either party should be exiled or jailed, you are discussing this and that what difference does it make to innocent children that are robbed from their childhoods, vacations or even one of they parents, don't you think this kids have right for better and brighter future, this kids regardless of they religion I am sure they would love to enjoy all this goodies we have in the west, I am 100% sure they would love to have all the freedom and joy american kids do, and do you think this so called leaders care???
No they don't give crap all they care is they power and they position in the party!!!
Average joe an blow is irrelevant to them!!!
“Serbs finally managed to free themselves and their land from the Turks and are now being accused of setting up RS by genocide and ethnic cleansing.”
Well, when Arkan-oids were raping innocent women in rape camps and Mladic soldires were killing thousands of Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica, they were saying that they were just “freeing Serbs from the Turci (“turks”, as they defined Bosnian Muslims)”.
“Bosnia always belonged to the Serbs.”
Who told you that? Your patriarch? Your favorite politician? A Seselj-inspired “intelectual”? Get some good Historical Atlas, and you’ll see that Bosnia most of the time did not belong to the Serbia. Bosnia and Serbia were separate Ottoman provinces, after that separated between Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, etc… Bosnia, even inside Yugoslavia (the Kingdom and the Socialist Republic) was a separate entity from Serbia.
BOSNIA (including republika spska) IS NOT SERBIA. It never was. It never will be… at least if Serbia try to wage war again against not just Sarajevo, but against the nuclear-armed United States of America and NATO, but I really think that move would be SUICIDAL, to say the least.
“The fact that they were invaded by the Turks and some converted to Islam during that time does not justify handing Bosnia to Muslim rule which it is now.”
Why not? Face the truth: Bosnia today is a majority Muslim country. So that’s simply natural, not a imposition, that most politicians and leaders there came from Muslim families. But it would be absolutely normal that Bosnian Catholics and Orthodox would have the right to enter Bosnian politics, too — but inside a secular unified country, without religious chauvinism.
“If Bosnia was truly functioning as a multicultural country why then are the Croats from Herzegovina gathering signatures from their people in order to set up their own self rule there?”
This is not a move made by Bosnian Catholics, but just for some fanatics inside the Bosnian HDZ — Even Croatia itself does not consider Bosnian Catholics “people of Croatia” anymore. Croatia now looks to the future, to NATO, to EU, not to old ethno-religious games.
So it’s time to grow up and extinguish republika srpska for good. Maybe that would even not be bad for Bosnian orthodox people — but certainly it wouldn’t be a good deal for the power-hungry politicians and clerics…
Bosnia is an artifical state indeed. People are forced to live with each other becuase International community wanted some multicultural society. Former Yugoslavia was an artifical state as well, in my opinion. The only difference is that ex Yugos were not really forced to live with each other (or some maybe did feel that way). However, we all here witness how did it end. One thing is more than sure, Balkan people cannot leave in ethnically mixed communities. At least not any more. The only state in the Balkan that has reall multicultural traits is Serbia. Serbia is the most culturaly diverse country. Perhaps the neighbours could learn something from us.
"Bosnia and Herzegovina is a sovereign state recognized internationally and regionally"
I know it is, but isn't Serbia also a sovereign state recognised both internationally and regionally, so if Kosovo gets to split from Serbia, why not RS? Answer me on this.
This is beyond belief. Some posters here are actually saying that RS was somehow taken away from Boshniaks (Bosnian Muslims). Are they actually implying that Serbia invaded that part of Bosnia and settled their own people there?
Majority of Bosnia was populated by Serbs and Croats to the lesser extent. Serbs have defended the territory where they were a majority ie. RS. They were constntly under attack by the Croats in that region.
Yes, Bosnia existed on the map, but it was NEVER legitemately ruled by Muslims except during the occuation by Ottoman Emprire.
Serbs finally managed to free themselves and their land from the Turks and are now being accused of setting up RS by genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Bosnia always belonged to the Serbs. The fact that they were invaded by the Turks and some converted to Islam during that time does not justify handing Bosnia to Muslim rule which it is now.
Bosnia is NOT a multicultural country. It is ruled by a Muslim government without any real input from either Croats or Serbs.
If Bosnia was truly functioning as a multicultural country why then are the Croats from Herzegovina gathering signatures from their people in order to set up their own self rule there?
Everyone again is so busy pointing fingers at the Serbs and "atrocities" written by pac journalists and totally ignoring the genocide and ethnic cleansing done by the Muslims in order to secure their rule. The Muslims have done their fare share of this with a little help from their Al-Qaeda pals. So we reward this with a country of their own but RS is not allowed.
Bosnia and Herzegovina is a sovereign state recognized internationally and regionally therefore suggesting that it is artificial lowers your IQ about 100 points. The concepts of state is artificially constructed therefore no state really exists. That is a better argument. BiH has two entities which will soon be demolished and Bosnia will be united.
This all wouldn't be happening if Serbs and Croats weren't so greedy and trying to get a piece of Bosnia. Let Bosnia be Bosnia and whoever wants to live there, let them!!! There is Serbia for Serbs and Croatia for Croats, and I bet they wouldn't like it if Muslims split up their countries, and named half of it "Balija State" see that would never happen and of course then it would be labeled terrorism. Get real...in order to have peace in this region, there needs to be religious separation, leave Muslims in Bosnia and let them have their country back. RS is the worst thing ever created, even Serbs in RS are suffering, they live like poor villagers. Free Kosovo!!!
“If Kosovo may split from Serbia, why may RS not split from Bosnia?”
Because RS was constructed on the 1992-1995 genocide. RS exists due to Srebreinca. Due to Omarska Concentration Camp. Due to the Siege of Sarajevo and the Sniper Alley. Due to Mladic. Due to Arkan. Due to Karadzic. Due mainly to the dead criminal dictator Slobodan Milosevic.
And also because RS IS NOT contiguous territory. Look at the map: RS is divided in two by the Brcko District and FBiH’s Posavina Canton. What the Serb nationalists would do? To wage war with FBiH again? To call Arkan to “ethnically cleanse” this territories and annex them to RS by force? Ops, sorry, but Arkan was shot down some seven years ago…
“Bosnia is an artifical state indeed. People are forced to live with each other becuase International community wanted some multicultural society.”
This is a lie, and you know that. Before the tragic alliance of the orthodox lunatics ate SANU, the military and the Serbian opportunists in 1992 that made the war, generally nobody in normal life in Croatia or Bosnia cared for one’s religion. People lived in the same areas, and even intermarried. And differently from Albanian-speaking Kosovars and Serbians, the only effective difference between Bosniaks, Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats is religion.
“One thing is more than sure, Balkan people cannot leave in ethnically mixed communities.”
In modern and democratic western societies, people of different ethnic backgrounds or different religions do mix together. In fact, the only people in the Balkans who refuse to be in minority in any place are the orthodox Serbo-Croatian speaking Yugoslavs, brianwashed by the church and militant Serb nationalist rhetoric.
“The only state in the Balkan that has reall multicultural traits is Serbia. Serbia is the most culturaly diverse country. Perhaps the neighbours could learn something from us.”
Serbia has been a very bad teacher, to say the least. Even inside is current real borders, it usually mistreats Hungarians in Vojvodina, Muslims in Sandzak and Albanians in Southern Serbia.
For the sake of stabiliy in the Balkans, Kosovo should be an independent country and RS should be extinct and re-annexed to the Bosnian nation-state.
Danijela,
Your argument is very flawed.
You mention how Bosnia is a sovereign state so therefore no divisions allowed.
Guess what? Last time I checked, Serbia was also a sovereign state.
Can you pleae explain how one sovereign state must be preserved but the other may be allowed to break up?
The only reason I can think of is that every other race has a right to self govern except the Serbs.
If you can give me a better explanation please do.
Kosovo is in a different situation than RS due to the long-time outright harassment and killings of the kosovo-albanian population perpetrated by the Serbian government forces. Such things never happened in RS.
But anyhow, who cares? There are no borders withing EU and the normal people in Belgium doesn't care as long as they have a good life.
Niall,
RS is the direct result of genocide and by letting it stand as it is, you reward genocide. Moreover, RS is in the clearly defined territory of Bosnia, Kosovo on the other hand is a province that was added to Serbia. A province has the flexibility to vote for independence and this was a right given to the province during the Yugoslavia days by Tito. .
I’m rather flabbergasted that a rational person could even justify the existence of RS let alone defend its existence. I challenge you to do some soul searching and visit Srebrenica in July sometime to meet with some of the people who are victims of RS.
I completely agree with you. RS is the result of aggression, genocide and crimes against humanity. It is an artificial and illegal government pseudostructure which is bound to be dismantled. In fact, the only ex-Yu country which has true multiculturalism is Bosnia. Even after how that country has been treated, its people are still willing to coexist with other cultures. I fail to see such multiculturalism in Blegrade or even Banja Luka. It is unfortunate. Bosnia is so much richer for its higher moral and ethical values. RS is illegal and is an impediment to democracy in the region. RS never existed, while Bosnia has been on maps preceding Croatia and Serbia. If you don't believe me, go read a history textbook - preferably not one written by Seselj or Milosevic.
Peggy,
I am not sure if you are aware but kosovo is not serbia, kosovo has always enjoyed status of autonomy (SAP Kosovo)such as did vojvodina while part of SFRJ, so you can not compare this two situations as a same! Bosnia is a soverign country and so should stay, this so called rs crap that was forced upon at that time on the puppet politicians that where so called "acting on behalf" of people of Bosnia who where forced into Dayton peace agreement is a joke, I was never asked to vote for or agains it neither was the rest of the population!!!
I believe that there is enough of serbian desperate treaths and flexing the muscle, you believe in democracy human rights and freedoms and so on..... where does the serbia belong on the list than and how dare can you even support such ideology that puts you even lower than them I guess???
After the genocide and what has ben done I am surprised that people don't even have shame to discuss such ridiculos topics! As far as I am concern there is a country called serbia and if you ask me who ever might feel citizen of so called serbia why don't they move there??? I believe there is over 1 milion of people of serbian origin in USA why don't they ask for rs in here, guess what would they get, hahaha!
Anyways,
the so called, artificial, forced upon people against their will, rs is not a legitimate country or governing body in my eyes and many others so it should be dismantled and nationalist leaders from either party should be exiled or jailed, you are discussing this and that what difference does it make to innocent children that are robbed from their childhoods, vacations or even one of they parents, don't you think this kids have right for better and brighter future, this kids regardless of they religion I am sure they would love to enjoy all this goodies we have in the west, I am 100% sure they would love to have all the freedom and joy american kids do, and do you think this so called leaders care???
No they don't give crap all they care is they power and they position in the party!!!
Average joe an blow is irrelevant to them!!!
"If Kosovo may split from Serbia, why may RS not split from Bosnia?"
Kosovo shouldnt be allowed to split from Serbia and neither should RS split away from the Federation because people cant just decide to cut up state borders. Im bosnian, but I just dont support Kosovo independence...I feel bad for anyone that has to suffer as a minority but it doesnt mean they have a right to just set up their own country.
You obviously cannot think clearly since you foster the animosity towards the Serbs. I will freely presume that Serbs cannot live with anybody else actually implies Albanians. This can be confirmed by the latest news in Macedonia. If the Serbs to blame for everything then what Albanians are doing in Macedonia at the moment (or in the past for that matter). You are very wrong when speaking of Serbs badly treating own people of deifferent ethnic background. Sorry to disapoint you but this is not true. I would like to see more facts on this. Please link me. We are talking here of human rights and I wait you to send me proof in what way Serbian minorities' are denied those rights. Oh, I guess you meant Albanians badly treating their own minorities. Barb-wire is such an inteligent invention for Albanians. Speaking about modern societes you must be thinking of Kosovo belongs to that category with birbed-wired minorities, with destruction of serbian cultural heritage. If someone is brainwashed in this world is you Albanians thought by the famous basement teachers. And for the end Gorilla Republic of Srpska will be Serbia sooner or later. You may call that Republic as you wish but it will be Serbian and who knows we might be even granted Srpska by EU,USA for the crimes we did. And yes, I have a question for you. Why you Albanians deny people of turkish nationality and their right on having own culture and language? I have been in Kosovo and heard from many Albanians that Turks in Kosovo are actually Albanians that just pretend to be Turks. What to expect for other minorities? Why my neighbour Albanian (good friend) was forbiden to greet me on the street if she was with friends? Why she was frightened? And why I on the other hand was free to talk with anyone I liked? Please, tell me more about modern societes, civilizaton....Looking forward
I see a lot of people on here talking about people being anti serb or labelling the serbs as some sort of monsters. The truth of the matter is...the serbs did mess up. They did kill indiscriminatelty, they put people in concentration camps, held systematic killings etc. You cannot just get away with something like that... I am not anti serb, I have many serbian friends actually. But there are consenquences for your actions. RS was built on genocide and ethnic clensing. It was not WON by the Serbs in some fair game that they can now just keep.
“Serbs finally managed to free themselves and their land from the Turks and are now being accused of setting up RS by genocide and ethnic cleansing.”
Well, when Arkan-oids were raping innocent women in rape camps and Mladic soldires were killing thousands of Muslim men and boys in Srebrenica, they were saying that they were just “freeing Serbs from the Turci (“turks”, as they defined Bosnian Muslims)”.
“Bosnia always belonged to the Serbs.”
Who told you that? Your patriarch? Your favorite politician? A Seselj-inspired “intelectual”? Get some good Historical Atlas, and you’ll see that Bosnia most of the time did not belong to the Serbia. Bosnia and Serbia were separate Ottoman provinces, after that separated between Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire, etc… Bosnia, even inside Yugoslavia (the Kingdom and the Socialist Republic) was a separate entity from Serbia.
BOSNIA (including republika spska) IS NOT SERBIA. It never was. It never will be… at least if Serbia try to wage war again against not just Sarajevo, but against the nuclear-armed United States of America and NATO, but I really think that move would be SUICIDAL, to say the least.
“The fact that they were invaded by the Turks and some converted to Islam during that time does not justify handing Bosnia to Muslim rule which it is now.”
Why not? Face the truth: Bosnia today is a majority Muslim country. So that’s simply natural, not a imposition, that most politicians and leaders there came from Muslim families. But it would be absolutely normal that Bosnian Catholics and Orthodox would have the right to enter Bosnian politics, too — but inside a secular unified country, without religious chauvinism.
“If Bosnia was truly functioning as a multicultural country why then are the Croats from Herzegovina gathering signatures from their people in order to set up their own self rule there?”
This is not a move made by Bosnian Catholics, but just for some fanatics inside the Bosnian HDZ — Even Croatia itself does not consider Bosnian Catholics “people of Croatia” anymore. Croatia now looks to the future, to NATO, to EU, not to old ethno-religious games.
So it’s time to grow up and extinguish republika srpska for good. Maybe that would even not be bad for Bosnian orthodox people — but certainly it wouldn’t be a good deal for the power-hungry politicians and clerics…
You people do realise though, that if RS was to declare some kind of independence, this would mean all out war AGAIN. Ruining millions of lives AGAIN..and AGAIN it seems we never learn do we.
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