Hong Kong model proposed for Kosovo

Nice try, but uhmmm, NO THANX. Despite the name you give to the different forms of slavery, we choose FREEDOM

albanians should take this offer while it lasts. Otherwise they will end up with far less than they bargained for.

First was "Supervised Autonomy",now "Hong Kong model",I think next will be "Partition"!!!
In the end,Kosovo will be free!!!

"Koštunica said that after yesterday’s talks, it could be said that the possibility of future Serbia-Kosovo relations being based on a confederation principle had been taken off the agenda ...
The prime minister also spoke of Hong Kong. “The Hong Kong model was brought up as an existing example of Belgrade’s proposal for effective autonomy"

So that's it: Serbia even rejects a confederation - which would keep the two countries inside one kind of political unit - the very word "compromise" between the two positions (autonomy and independence), why? Because the idea of confederation makes Serbia and Kosova equal, whereas the 'Hong Kong model' does not. Serbia cannot accept the idea of equality - it will give "maximum" autonomy, as long as it is understood who is boss, who is underling, who is superior, who s inferior, who has the upper hand, at least theoretically.

And you wonder why the Albanians don't want to live under that kind of mentality ("yes, we know you won't kill us anymore, so we're happy to be called your inferiors, just so as to not wound your pride")

Get real Serbia, move on medieval myths.

Nah, this won't work either.

Since Kosovo is to break away from Serbia (which I see to be inevitable), Serbs North of the Ibar River should break away and rejoin Serbia, this is honestly the best compromise. The Albanians will never respect the Serbian minority (which in all honesty is all Serbia should be fighting for, not just for the land) or their religious sites/culture, on the other hand Kosovo will never remain a part of Serbia in fear of a repeat of any sort of 1999 due to what the Yugoslav Army did.

Split the province. If both sides must gain and both sides must lose, this is the only way to go. Kosovo already breaking away from Serbia outside of UNSCR1244 means that the Serbs can do exactly the same.

So what's next? The Austrian - Hungarian model?

Tex WIller,

Sorry but Indonea - East-Timor is very different situation. East-Timor was a colonly of Portual that was occupied by Indonesia.
It was not part of Indonesia. Kosovo was and is.

You can compare Kosovo with Papua: a region that is part of a country they do NOT want to be part of.

Like to many regions in the world sadly...

I also do not like this, but hey, that's life.

Try to change international law. And then apply these laws to Kosovo. Good luck.

BUT NO SPECIAL DEAL FOR KOSOVO!!!

"this reminds me of jealouse husband ( or wife ) that wants to keep the marriage alive , no matter that they even don't speak to each other anymore . if you don;t want to live your life in peace and harmony with yourself , please let as live the way we choose . marriage is a holy for most of the people , but devorces happens and they?
(mika, 6. November 2007 14:00) "

mika,

It's a little different scenario than you had put it. Let me explain:

It is like a marriage but the husband/wife only married in order to steal the wealth of the other person. And when the time was right, in this case albanians, are giving a lame excuse to divroce and steal the wealth. So, Serbia isn't trying to keep the marriage, if anything it is saying: just leave and leave us alonebut - it is trying to prevent the alban theft of Serbian soil.

We will never allow albanians to steal our land.

Kosovo has nothing to do with Hongkong because 90% of Albanians are for INDEPENDENCE.
Let's try with model Indonesia (in this case Serbia) and East Timor (in this case Kosovo).

Sorry but Indonea - East-Timor is very different situation. East-Timor was a colonly of Portual that was occupied by Indonesia.
It was not part of Indonesia. Kosovo was and is.


Let be honest. Kosovo was a colony of Ottoman Empire, populated (or whatever) by albanians, that was occupied in 1913 by Serbia. If you would say: Ottomans took it from serbs in 1938, I would say you, serbs took it by albanians in the tenth century.
Kosovo will be independent, there is nothing we can do to stop it. But for God's sake let establish a good neighborhood to save all what remains of the christian legacy on that new country. Greece, Indonesia, France, England, Netherlands, Spain, everybody has lost colonized territories which they occupied hundred of years ago. What an europian citizen or decisionmaker would think in this case would be: Is Serbia some special power we should close an eye and allow this country to permit itself being the only nation in Europe having a colony? Naaah, I don't think so.

Christos Apostolakis,
Athens, Greece (actually in Pristina, Kosovo)

this reminds me of jealouse husband ( or wife ) that wants to keep the marriage alive , no matter that they even don't speak to each other anymore . if you don;t want to live your life in peace and harmony with yourself , please let as live the way we choose . marriage is a holy for most of the people , but devorces happens and they?

Whoever knows Serbian language should read posts on this article in Serbian site of B92, they are really funny...

Ron my friend: If you had not been so busy going on like a broken LP about Tibet and Kurdistan you would have seen that throughout my comments I have sympathized with people wanting to win the right to self-determination. I see no reason for instance why Russia should be more entitled to hold on to Chechnya than the Chechen people. But of course what happens in Kosova is much nearer at home Ronetje. I wish separatists the world over the best, but that's about the extent of my involvement with them. So as far as my true nature is concerned I never tried to hide it. And if I am the reason for the pain and suffering in the world Ron, well I am sorry. I promise not to do it again.

The failure of transform the balkans on a new URSS with serbs representing the russian lords is obvious except for the apprentices of wizard that think their will can force the people will to their social/politics dream. The balkan peoples dont lost their identity, this is the basic and final truth so the birth of nations for each group is unavoidable and necessary, the try of multiethinic nations now is foolish because only put problems on final liberation of each nation for their own identity, a unstoppable will. Never existed a yugoslavia neither a URSS, Stalin could not exterminate the national identities ever using the genocide like tool, germans did not convinced be two nations, etc. , so create a political fiction when belgrade will rule the region at this stage after the lost milosevic's war is non sense. the path to europe is only possible to the real nations existing on balkans, the coalition under the belgrade control is so "lost on past" like the white sud africa, the maronite lebanon, the urss, etc. Serbs need walk on own legs and now this stupid struggle for the past seems more be a political struggle of suvival of a serb political class that the aim and interest of the serbian people slavished on megalomaniac dreams unable of see the real. Serbia needs now to conform itself to its own territorial space and give up all will of influence and economic charge upon their neighbors. Serbia need prepare itself for a future europe where all nations are well defined and all joined in a unite europe, regional messes dont can be put on this new broad strutucture called europe and serbia will not be able of stop the national aims of the region, try scarecrows for sustain the past is risible, balkans is balkans not any other region of earth so only the real balkanic solution fits on balkans.

Kosova is de facto independent. It will be de jure in a matter of weeks and no Albanian with a healthy brain would just go back to square 1, which was the Autonomy that Kosova had, and that was taken away by the same people: Serbs!

It is just another dragging policy of a paralytic Serbian government, which will have no effect whatsoever in the Independence of Kosova, as it did not have any influence in the Independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, and Montenegro.

It is a simple fact that every world politician knows by now. Kosovar Albanians deserve their own state for which they have been fighting for the last 200 years.

Hong-Kong model applies perfectly!!!
With one small difference though.
It can be done between Albania and Kosova, not Serbia and Kosova.
Think about it....

What Serbia wants to be joined to China and would like to be treated like Hong Kong!......... Unbelievable!

Peter,
Have you ever thought to split Serbia further by allowing the Albanians in Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegja joining Kosova?

@ TEX WILLER:

90% of what? Is it 90% of 20%?? Please remind me how many albanians live in Serbia. Please read what you write before posting.

At least Serbia is trying to be constructive and suggesting options, Albanians can only say no.

Well this is probably a final throw of the dice by the Serbian negotiating team but some are asking why this wasnt put on the table earlier - as international mediators were said to be fond of the idea.

This is a huge concession by the Serbian side as its highly likely that such a measure would last only a set number of years. After that Kosovo Albanians could declare independence - although the hope is that by this time Serbia (and its Hong Kong - Kosovo) will be in the EU and the question will seem less relevant to Serbs and Albanians. But the bottom line is that by airing this proposal Serbia is for the first time supporting a policy that may allow the loss of Kosovo in the future. However, this wont mean much to Albanians who will try to ignore the proposal.

Its quite a nice story but somehow doesnt seem to be easy to implement. Do they mean to incorporate parts of Artisari's plan of autonomous Serb authorities in Kosovo? There are many other questions.

Perhaps the idea is similar to the Kosovo Albanian position at Ramboulet. They signed up to something they didnt agree with calculating that Serbia would not be able to sign - and would therefore be blamed.

In other words the Serbian delegation (or parts of it) might not want the Albanians to agree. Instead the idea is to prove that Kosovo Albanians are not interested in negotiating.

But thats something we all know and few Albanians would deny, so its a huge question mark as to whether such a tactic will work - particularly at this late stage.

OK, Hong Kong! What are we gonna do about Jackie Chan then? Where is he gonna go? Huh? Where?

Stop these ugly jokes people. Kosova is way ahead towards its Independence!

Sorry but Indonea - East-Timor is very different situation. East-Timor was a colonly of Portual that was occupied by Indonesia.
It was not part of Indonesia. Kosovo was and is.


Let be honest. Kosovo was a colony of Ottoman Empire, populated (or whatever) by albanians, that was occupied in 1913 by Serbia. If you would say: Ottomans took it from serbs in 1938, I would say you, serbs took it by albanians in the tenth century.
Kosovo will be independent, there is nothing we can do to stop it. But for God's sake let establish a good neighborhood to save all what remains of the christian legacy on that new country. Greece, Indonesia, France, England, Netherlands, Spain, everybody has lost colonized territories which they occupied hundred of years ago. What an europian citizen or decisionmaker would think in this case would be: Is Serbia some special power we should close an eye and allow this country to permit itself being the only nation in Europe having a colony? Naaah, I don't think so.

Christos Apostolakis,
Athens, Greece (actually in Pristina, Kosovo)

"Also to all of those who keep saying, "you should read comments in Serbian," could you please translate them? I don't speak it, I would like to know what Serbs in Serbia say.
(KS, 6. November 2007 20:18)"

KS,

you should better learn it...since it is the official language of the state you´re living in...and you will need it in the future.

Dim, I completely agree with you. I have a shared understanding with you and what you say is right.

Also to all of those who keep saying, "you should read comments in Serbian," could you please translate them? I don't speak it, I would like to know what Serbs in Serbia say.

Maybe Serbia can throw in a few free Kung fu lessons for those aspiring Albanians. Maybe that might just tip the balance towards autonomy.

EA

Well, judging by the stubbornness and arrogant nationalism that the people of the Balkans appear to be showing during the course of the last century and now this one, and the total lack of negotiation skills when it comes to a critical decision, yes, split the Balkan states in terms of ethnic minorities because evidently they cannot live in peace with each other.

Slovenia is the only country with the right mentality to be in the EU, the rest of the countries have far too many war criminals and problems with their minorities. The world is wasting their time on Serbia and Kosovo, I always hoped for an agreement, but it is impossible, evidently.

All these Daytons, Ohrids and Ahtisaaris might work elsewhere in the world, but not in the Balkans, not with the mentalities and ethnic divisions there.

Enough blood has been split on account of land and national pride, either a former Yugoslav conglomerate or total split along ethnic lines.

Nice try, but uhmmm, NO THANX. Despite the name you give to the different forms of slavery, we choose FREEDOM

First was "Supervised Autonomy",now "Hong Kong model",I think next will be "Partition"!!!
In the end,Kosovo will be free!!!

"Koštunica said that after yesterday’s talks, it could be said that the possibility of future Serbia-Kosovo relations being based on a confederation principle had been taken off the agenda ...
The prime minister also spoke of Hong Kong. “The Hong Kong model was brought up as an existing example of Belgrade’s proposal for effective autonomy"

So that's it: Serbia even rejects a confederation - which would keep the two countries inside one kind of political unit - the very word "compromise" between the two positions (autonomy and independence), why? Because the idea of confederation makes Serbia and Kosova equal, whereas the 'Hong Kong model' does not. Serbia cannot accept the idea of equality - it will give "maximum" autonomy, as long as it is understood who is boss, who is underling, who is superior, who s inferior, who has the upper hand, at least theoretically.

And you wonder why the Albanians don't want to live under that kind of mentality ("yes, we know you won't kill us anymore, so we're happy to be called your inferiors, just so as to not wound your pride")

Get real Serbia, move on medieval myths.

So what's next? The Austrian - Hungarian model?

albanians should take this offer while it lasts. Otherwise they will end up with far less than they bargained for.

this reminds me of jealouse husband ( or wife ) that wants to keep the marriage alive , no matter that they even don't speak to each other anymore . if you don;t want to live your life in peace and harmony with yourself , please let as live the way we choose . marriage is a holy for most of the people , but devorces happens and they?

Ron my friend: If you had not been so busy going on like a broken LP about Tibet and Kurdistan you would have seen that throughout my comments I have sympathized with people wanting to win the right to self-determination. I see no reason for instance why Russia should be more entitled to hold on to Chechnya than the Chechen people. But of course what happens in Kosova is much nearer at home Ronetje. I wish separatists the world over the best, but that's about the extent of my involvement with them. So as far as my true nature is concerned I never tried to hide it. And if I am the reason for the pain and suffering in the world Ron, well I am sorry. I promise not to do it again.

Kosovo has nothing to do with Hongkong because 90% of Albanians are for INDEPENDENCE.
Let's try with model Indonesia (in this case Serbia) and East Timor (in this case Kosovo).

The failure of transform the balkans on a new URSS with serbs representing the russian lords is obvious except for the apprentices of wizard that think their will can force the people will to their social/politics dream. The balkan peoples dont lost their identity, this is the basic and final truth so the birth of nations for each group is unavoidable and necessary, the try of multiethinic nations now is foolish because only put problems on final liberation of each nation for their own identity, a unstoppable will. Never existed a yugoslavia neither a URSS, Stalin could not exterminate the national identities ever using the genocide like tool, germans did not convinced be two nations, etc. , so create a political fiction when belgrade will rule the region at this stage after the lost milosevic's war is non sense. the path to europe is only possible to the real nations existing on balkans, the coalition under the belgrade control is so "lost on past" like the white sud africa, the maronite lebanon, the urss, etc. Serbs need walk on own legs and now this stupid struggle for the past seems more be a political struggle of suvival of a serb political class that the aim and interest of the serbian people slavished on megalomaniac dreams unable of see the real. Serbia needs now to conform itself to its own territorial space and give up all will of influence and economic charge upon their neighbors. Serbia need prepare itself for a future europe where all nations are well defined and all joined in a unite europe, regional messes dont can be put on this new broad strutucture called europe and serbia will not be able of stop the national aims of the region, try scarecrows for sustain the past is risible, balkans is balkans not any other region of earth so only the real balkanic solution fits on balkans.

Peter,
Have you ever thought to split Serbia further by allowing the Albanians in Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegja joining Kosova?

Kosova is de facto independent. It will be de jure in a matter of weeks and no Albanian with a healthy brain would just go back to square 1, which was the Autonomy that Kosova had, and that was taken away by the same people: Serbs!

It is just another dragging policy of a paralytic Serbian government, which will have no effect whatsoever in the Independence of Kosova, as it did not have any influence in the Independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, and Montenegro.

It is a simple fact that every world politician knows by now. Kosovar Albanians deserve their own state for which they have been fighting for the last 200 years.

Well this is probably a final throw of the dice by the Serbian negotiating team but some are asking why this wasnt put on the table earlier - as international mediators were said to be fond of the idea.

This is a huge concession by the Serbian side as its highly likely that such a measure would last only a set number of years. After that Kosovo Albanians could declare independence - although the hope is that by this time Serbia (and its Hong Kong - Kosovo) will be in the EU and the question will seem less relevant to Serbs and Albanians. But the bottom line is that by airing this proposal Serbia is for the first time supporting a policy that may allow the loss of Kosovo in the future. However, this wont mean much to Albanians who will try to ignore the proposal.

Its quite a nice story but somehow doesnt seem to be easy to implement. Do they mean to incorporate parts of Artisari's plan of autonomous Serb authorities in Kosovo? There are many other questions.

Perhaps the idea is similar to the Kosovo Albanian position at Ramboulet. They signed up to something they didnt agree with calculating that Serbia would not be able to sign - and would therefore be blamed.

In other words the Serbian delegation (or parts of it) might not want the Albanians to agree. Instead the idea is to prove that Kosovo Albanians are not interested in negotiating.

But thats something we all know and few Albanians would deny, so its a huge question mark as to whether such a tactic will work - particularly at this late stage.

Nah, this won't work either.

Since Kosovo is to break away from Serbia (which I see to be inevitable), Serbs North of the Ibar River should break away and rejoin Serbia, this is honestly the best compromise. The Albanians will never respect the Serbian minority (which in all honesty is all Serbia should be fighting for, not just for the land) or their religious sites/culture, on the other hand Kosovo will never remain a part of Serbia in fear of a repeat of any sort of 1999 due to what the Yugoslav Army did.

Split the province. If both sides must gain and both sides must lose, this is the only way to go. Kosovo already breaking away from Serbia outside of UNSCR1244 means that the Serbs can do exactly the same.

Hong-Kong model applies perfectly!!!
With one small difference though.
It can be done between Albania and Kosova, not Serbia and Kosova.
Think about it....

Dim, I completely agree with you. I have a shared understanding with you and what you say is right.

Also to all of those who keep saying, "you should read comments in Serbian," could you please translate them? I don't speak it, I would like to know what Serbs in Serbia say.

Maybe Serbia can throw in a few free Kung fu lessons for those aspiring Albanians. Maybe that might just tip the balance towards autonomy.

What Serbia wants to be joined to China and would like to be treated like Hong Kong!......... Unbelievable!

Sorry but Indonea - East-Timor is very different situation. East-Timor was a colonly of Portual that was occupied by Indonesia.
It was not part of Indonesia. Kosovo was and is.


Let be honest. Kosovo was a colony of Ottoman Empire, populated (or whatever) by albanians, that was occupied in 1913 by Serbia. If you would say: Ottomans took it from serbs in 1938, I would say you, serbs took it by albanians in the tenth century.
Kosovo will be independent, there is nothing we can do to stop it. But for God's sake let establish a good neighborhood to save all what remains of the christian legacy on that new country. Greece, Indonesia, France, England, Netherlands, Spain, everybody has lost colonized territories which they occupied hundred of years ago. What an europian citizen or decisionmaker would think in this case would be: Is Serbia some special power we should close an eye and allow this country to permit itself being the only nation in Europe having a colony? Naaah, I don't think so.

Christos Apostolakis,
Athens, Greece (actually in Pristina, Kosovo)

Whoever knows Serbian language should read posts on this article in Serbian site of B92, they are really funny...

Sorry but Indonea - East-Timor is very different situation. East-Timor was a colonly of Portual that was occupied by Indonesia.
It was not part of Indonesia. Kosovo was and is.


Let be honest. Kosovo was a colony of Ottoman Empire, populated (or whatever) by albanians, that was occupied in 1913 by Serbia. If you would say: Ottomans took it from serbs in 1938, I would say you, serbs took it by albanians in the tenth century.
Kosovo will be independent, there is nothing we can do to stop it. But for God's sake let establish a good neighborhood to save all what remains of the christian legacy on that new country. Greece, Indonesia, France, England, Netherlands, Spain, everybody has lost colonized territories which they occupied hundred of years ago. What an europian citizen or decisionmaker would think in this case would be: Is Serbia some special power we should close an eye and allow this country to permit itself being the only nation in Europe having a colony? Naaah, I don't think so.

Christos Apostolakis,
Athens, Greece (actually in Pristina, Kosovo)

Tex WIller,

Sorry but Indonea - East-Timor is very different situation. East-Timor was a colonly of Portual that was occupied by Indonesia.
It was not part of Indonesia. Kosovo was and is.

You can compare Kosovo with Papua: a region that is part of a country they do NOT want to be part of.

Like to many regions in the world sadly...

I also do not like this, but hey, that's life.

Try to change international law. And then apply these laws to Kosovo. Good luck.

BUT NO SPECIAL DEAL FOR KOSOVO!!!

"this reminds me of jealouse husband ( or wife ) that wants to keep the marriage alive , no matter that they even don't speak to each other anymore . if you don;t want to live your life in peace and harmony with yourself , please let as live the way we choose . marriage is a holy for most of the people , but devorces happens and they?
(mika, 6. November 2007 14:00) "

mika,

It's a little different scenario than you had put it. Let me explain:

It is like a marriage but the husband/wife only married in order to steal the wealth of the other person. And when the time was right, in this case albanians, are giving a lame excuse to divroce and steal the wealth. So, Serbia isn't trying to keep the marriage, if anything it is saying: just leave and leave us alonebut - it is trying to prevent the alban theft of Serbian soil.

We will never allow albanians to steal our land.

"Also to all of those who keep saying, "you should read comments in Serbian," could you please translate them? I don't speak it, I would like to know what Serbs in Serbia say.
(KS, 6. November 2007 20:18)"

KS,

you should better learn it...since it is the official language of the state you´re living in...and you will need it in the future.

OK, Hong Kong! What are we gonna do about Jackie Chan then? Where is he gonna go? Huh? Where?

Stop these ugly jokes people. Kosova is way ahead towards its Independence!

EA

Well, judging by the stubbornness and arrogant nationalism that the people of the Balkans appear to be showing during the course of the last century and now this one, and the total lack of negotiation skills when it comes to a critical decision, yes, split the Balkan states in terms of ethnic minorities because evidently they cannot live in peace with each other.

Slovenia is the only country with the right mentality to be in the EU, the rest of the countries have far too many war criminals and problems with their minorities. The world is wasting their time on Serbia and Kosovo, I always hoped for an agreement, but it is impossible, evidently.

All these Daytons, Ohrids and Ahtisaaris might work elsewhere in the world, but not in the Balkans, not with the mentalities and ethnic divisions there.

Enough blood has been split on account of land and national pride, either a former Yugoslav conglomerate or total split along ethnic lines.

@ TEX WILLER:

90% of what? Is it 90% of 20%?? Please remind me how many albanians live in Serbia. Please read what you write before posting.

At least Serbia is trying to be constructive and suggesting options, Albanians can only say no.